Maintaining quality content while doing more.

[Music]

thank you thank you

hey everyone welcome to the messaging matter show my name is Todd Jones I'm

the host and always happy this is one of my funnest

things to do every month um I get somebody smart like Lily on the line and let them talk to us about what

they're expert in and it's just fascinating to me and sometimes they go on uh for an hour so we'll try not to go

on for an hour today but let me introduce my guests to you but but look before I do that let me do a couple

house keeping things if you are someone who watches this show regularly either live or on the replay

um I will be opening a new channel in uh probably January for the messaging

matters show um so these will start being streamed over there also we'll move the videos uh

to that channel and it will be called messy matters show I understand that

YouTube is happy that you have a channel for your show I used to think that you

could only do a channel per email address but that's not the case anymore I can apparently have at least more than

one channel with this existing email address so I'm really happy about that but we will be moving that to the new

channel by January if not next month so just to let you know that if you're

somebody who watches the show but these videos will stay here so if you link to this video it won't go away

um so just a little bit of a housekeeping uh note before we get going

and I see my friend the vendor is in this in the chat room so hey davinder the vendor is one of my good friends for

a very long time so I thought maybe some of the Lily's friends will be here because they were really interested in

the social media about this but let me introduce my guest her name is Lily

um abortia did I say that correctly close yeah

she's got a lot of Grace toward me and uh she is the uh content expert at

marketing cyborg.com and she has got a lot of experience actually

writing for some well-known uh product companies and we will talk about that uh

shortly but uh Lily welcome to the show to be here

I was watching a little bit of your presentation you did earlier this year and very clear very easy to understand

and some very good uh content there tell us a little bit about some of the

organization some of the companies you have written for there who's who in the SAS space

yeah I I didn't actually startled writing for the who is who but I'm lucky

to have written for Brands like Hub Sports and um and hot jar and data box and

the list can go on yeah yeah you just actually showed you're on

Twitter this morning you uh put out about an article you wrote for uh zapier and so I hadn't had a chance to dive

into it because I'm pretty sure it's long but I thought that was really cool and it came out today that you're coming

on the Mastery matter show and thought Oh what a great uh just social proof for what you have done

um so anyway um back in July I'm see if I can do this

actually I've created an overlay back in July you made a tweet which I was like oh yeah yeah this is

really great I love what you said and I'm gonna see if I can put that overlay up there it's probably not the

best but um you said Brandt I think we should all

slow down content we should stop using the excuse of shorter attention spans to

create fast-paced boring content I'll share my full thoughts on this someday uh but long and short let's write human

to human uh useful context even if they already know

um and I replied to you about that as you can see there's 114 likes seven

quote tweets and 15 regular tweets uh about for this particular tweet and um

as and I invited you to come on the show talk about it and you graciously accepted so

um can you tell me a little bit about what you were thinking about when you tweeted that and did you follow up uh

with um you know actually putting your thought to paper or something like that

or is this it but I I still have plans to

um do like um especially now that I've started the newsletter I have plans to expand on that but I never really got to

do this um what I had in mind when I I tweeted

that with so I've seen a lot of um fits on Twitter

very direct and let totally shots

sometimes you were kind of coming in and out there

oh I was saying I do not have a problem with Clarity but sometimes we tend to

sacrifice the uh the full context behind the context that

we're putting out there in favor of being Chris and shocked and to the point

and I think that these uh um justification behind this is that

people whereas

you find that people can sit for hours and watch movies people can pick up a

book and not put it down until they are done with it and so the problem isn't shorter station spans the problem is

that we are not putting in enough work to retain the reader's attention

so you're direct the issue where it should be it's not about shutting in the copy it's about connecting with readers

now when you're talking about copy you're talking about long-form content you're talking about content on blogs

that kind of thing yeah do you apply that and I actually have a

thought on this but to like Just landing pages or website copy Pages as well do

you think it's the same thing there I I see I was actually doing a project recently and I would look at the

competitors of the person that I was doing the content for the website copy and their their Pages would be just

incredibly short they might throw some images or something like that but the actual content just didn't say anything

and I was just like you know there's just not much depth there from either an SEO standpoint or

even a marketing standpoint yeah so I think that it's even more

important in copyrights and to say crime and really connect with the audience

instead of being just direct and these are the benefits for signing up for products and these are our features I

think in copy especially we should take the time to slow down and connect with

the audience yeah I think that uh that's a problem

people don't connect with the audience and it's more I like the I think a lot of content is uh overly

informational it's like let's throw as much information as we can maybe cut out some of the content

because oh people don't read right let's let's cut out some of the context we don't need that sentence but uh and

instead of actually um connecting with the audience and that

brings up another point that I have thought about is Are you delivering information only or are you trying to

get trying to get your your audience to do something

exactly like you know when um we put out content that it's just you

know completely direct and just saying this and this and do this and do that it feels like we're just instructing

instead of like um taking the audience through a transformational experience

I'm gonna use actually concerning copy I'm going to use my website as an example when most people come to me for

my freelance Services one of the things that they really talk about is my website and my website is the most long

and you know the most lengthy copy I've seen for a copywriter but I feel like

what I did that makes those people that gives them the opportunity to see

the transformation that they can um experience for themselves is that I

paint the problem I let them visualize the solution what

it can be instead of just saying I write um blog posts and they rank and here's an

example of a blog post that I've written and then there's little things that may

seem irrelevant like my background as a blogger being able to tie in those things kind of gives the work more depth

a personality uh let me give an example did like content

I think shots and direct content is like

going to say the uh your ophthalmologist and he or she tells you okay your vision

isn't very good and you need a pair of glasses to sell better that's us slow

down content where your ophthalmologist says I saw you feel for the share when you wanted to sit and I'm pretty sure

those headaches you describe that they signal your vision isn't very good and

so you need a pair of glasses because I don't want you falling over the stairs and I don't want you not [ __ ] over your favorite dress there's a connection

that comes in the second slot down concept it takes longer to deliver

the message but then the The Listener can actually feel the transformation

they actually recognize the problem in themselves like if you don't give that full context

they may be like come on it's just a headache I just probably need a aspirin or something

as someone who had headaches because my vision was changing in college so I totally relate to that uh little story

you just told and you're it sounds like you're doing the classic Pas problem agitate solution which is a very classic

copywriting formula that can be used in blog writing as well um there's a couple things I want to add

to that or to talk about in regards to that the second one I'll do after this but

there is there a time where getting to the point is really a better solution

I'm thinking about food blogs right um thanksgiving's coming up in America in a couple days uh Happy Thanksgiving

everybody um so maybe somebody said starts searching for a cranberry salad recipe

so they start looking oh there's a cranberry salad recipe at this great blog and they go to the blog and they're

looking for the recipe and what they get is like 800 words about Grandma used to

make this Grand Prairie's Grand cranberry salad and we loved it and blah

blah blah it's like I just want the recipe thank you I think there's a time and place where being direct is a good

thing and I think what what you're referring to is a business not a

lifestyle blog but a business who is trying to nurture people down the funnel

would you agree with that well I I have a couple of thoughts about

this this uh good blogs for example they're like on the far end of the spectrum and

then there's business blocks on the far end of the spectrum and I feel like each um each one might not be doing like a

very good job do you want to come up and state you

know when someone lines on a page they want to know that they're on the right page and so they need to immediately

relate to whatever it is that you're saying and they may not be linked to your grand

Mastery there's a way to within the story without making the story The focal point of the attention of their article

you know where people are reading through and they're using the

story without even noticing that there's a story it's just the story makes it more relatable to them

and so you're not and I think this ties in really well to what we're going to

talk about concerning the linear framework logic this is the place where you know logic means a couple of the

things that are not meant to be in there instead of just rambling right yeah I would say I would tell the

uh the recipe blogger to go ahead and put that recipe at the beginning and

then do your story and then repeat it at the end and I call it if you're not careful you will I think the word is

from journalism you will bury the lead you need to put this is something I've

been thinking more and more about lately largely after interviewing Maddie Osmond last week who's the author of this book

writing for humans and robots um she talked about you know leading with your lead l-a-d-e

the the uh important information like a journalist does uh because I'm used to writing these um hook worthy

introductions which I do like doing but I'm rethinking it a little bit maybe I should at least put a summary sentence

before I could do the hookworthy uh introduction so it's just something I've

come back to to think about but whether you're writing a recipe blog or you're

writing a Blog for zapier or your company um you should not bury that lead that's

the that's the phrases that Maddie uses in her book so you you have that summary

so that people will know that there are in the right place before you get into the content and you start using the

story and that kind of thing I mean that's kind of what I've been thinking about yeah I think

um a way to um check

let's call it a litmus test a litmus test to check if what you're saying the story that you're um telling is actually

useful is if this story wasn't about you

will the audience be able to see themselves in it because yeah no one cares that your grandma make the

best roast turkey if they can't actually see themselves you know what does it have to do with me

yeah and and I think that's when you put on the lens of the audience you can be

able to filter your stories in such a way that you're actually giving stories that they can relate to and connect to

and you're not losing them and I also agree with you know putting the

when I was at animals we had this concept called Bluff I know it's a journalism uh thing also where you want

to State the bottom line up front to me it doesn't necessarily mean summarizing

the article of the front I think I will call it stating a kisses

up front I don't know if I'm saying that right it's getting like that this is up front

and this is the front yeah yeah like the idea that you're trying to make yeah that's probably well you know in a

in a in a blog content article I think that's probably a better way of looking at it for sure uh I'm thinking about it

in terms of about Pages because I'm always rethinking how I do write about pages I am the about page guy after all

yeah if you know me on Twitter um but um but yeah that so you don't want to bury the lead and you know your

thesis your summary uh whatever that um that logic is that you talk about in

their framework which we'll get to in just a minute I want to bring up one more thing before we get into your Lima

framework uh that's l-e-m-a right Lima um because you're slowing down and

because you're doing some of the things you're talking about at the beginning of the the uh the interview

um that's going to take that's going to mean taking some time to get to know the audience and learning research if you

will learning about what those pain points are actually you can't just die into writing an article without knowing

that is that would you say that's correct that is like 100 correct so at the top of every drafts that I create I

have three questions what do they do what do they want to know what do they

need to know and you cannot answer those questions if you do not know the audience and I think that these questions also

make sure that you're leading with at least what they want to know or what they need to know instead of what they

already get like say you're writing an article about the pandemic you don't

lead with a pandemic workout into 2020 because like every was it 2017 2019

because like everyone knows that common knowledge yeah

yeah that makes sense do you have uh you know I think uh he can there's a there's

an element of research to that right I mean because that you know I've read a number of different people talk about

our friend Adrian Barnes she does the Persona she's just personas and she uses the jobs to be done framework to do that

um and I think that's a good way for for overall and then you should go to grow and convert the guys from growing

convert talks about they call it SEO pain points but in order to do that you actually have to dig in in some cases

actually have to you know uh the guys from Grove convert talk about interviewing people about listening on a

sales calls and other customer service things to get those pain points or is

that some of the things you you think about when you talk about learning what the audience needs to know

that is the foundation of my strategy when I do strategy I want to know

exactly who the audience of that very brand is not who they uh perceived

Personnel is and so I'm looking in the CRM and I'm listening on the sales calls and listening on customer success and

interactions and stuff like that but as a writer I don't think you need to go

through all of that like you could easily learn as much as possible from a simple Google search

about uh an audience if the company you're working with is doing their

content strategy and Griffin rights there is a target audience at the top of the brief and so you fake they they are

faculty at least if you don't have if the company doesn't get audience for you

it's always smart to ask yeah who is the target audience for the space because they need to be the following Beacon for

whatever you write and if you're able to get the target audience you can easily plug that into Google and filter for

um forums or communities specific to that audience and just read the banter that they share

with each other I get to know who they are they if they are senior level

um audience in that industry walk with the senior level or person no

you'll be able to find out those things by looking through the chats in forums

have you ever used I I signed up for Specter recently that

I haven't really gone into I only ran one such on it and I think it's like really really because it's so easy to

find um the influencers and in uh certain industries in sponsors

yeah I have a free account too and I haven't really dived into it but that's partly what they um you know uh promote

that they do is audience research so I'm curious about that if that would be helpful to not just a rider like you but

you know the company that you know you're writing for certainly you brought up the idea of a brief and absolutely if

you're a writer you would hope to get a detailed brief from you know if you're

writing for zapier or HubSpot you're likely going to get one of those um if you're a writer for maybe a

smaller product uh maybe they don't have a brief maybe they don't have their

audience to find those would be uh areas that a writer can help those companies I

think uh do um wouldn't you say here so before I started writing for the

bigger Brands all the brands that I'm rich for most of them will not actually have like a brief or they will have like

a okay we won't Target the stock and stuff again they just give that to you and so I created a brief template

where these are the things I need to work with and I send it to them and I'm

like please can you feel these things for me and that's something that people can do to get more detailed in

information and your clients will appreciate things for it too because they know now that you're not just taking in terms of the words on the page

but like you're really you know trying to understand the strategy as a business and everything and how it all comes

together to drive Revenue yeah I think that's a um a gap in the

maybe knowledge base for some companies I mean I always tell people it's like look you don't know how to do it brief

or whatever Kaylee Moore has got templates for briefs you you can buy them from her and literally follow the

instructions she does a lot of things like that um but certainly copywriters a lot of

content marketers they are they have briefs they work with um I think there's a maybe it's a

knowledge Gap I'll be the right way of putting in I don't know a lot of Spar companies you're right I mean they're like hey I want to Target this keyword

you know I want to talk Target this subject and you know um maybe those are things that are that

they don't understand as much maybe don't make the connection so that's an area where I think a lot of freelance

writers can increase their value uh to the company because I mean audience

research is huge right I mean um I mentioned Adrian earlier she she

does a personas a little differently I used to hate personas but now she's making me like them again but she's got

a product on gumroad you can basically learn and it's not very much money and

you can learn the process as a freelance writer right and increase your skill set

or if you're a company and you're you need to understand a little bit more you can you can buy that off of gumroad

um but uh there's there's so many resources out there and um I'm I'm really kind of interested in

the companies that maybe fall short of some of this stuff so um

that's where being a quality content writer um can can really play in and help a

company out so let's go to your framework

I think uh Lima l-e-m-a and that stands for logical

explicit memorable and actionable so I'm curious to learn more about this

framework so

you know I um I think that when people want to skill

um production if you're working with lots of freelance writers especially Junior writers you need some sort of

um process some sort of um when I say chat places you know that they can consult and right

you know that they're in the right they're moving in the right direction and for me the Lima framework is that

um all a compassion um

Gringo that I put my contents through and like you said it stands for logical

and explicit and memorable and actionable so this first one is logical

you know what's more frustrated than a piece of content that isn't uh that's

just floss fluff but I found find the most frustrating is

a piece of content that doesn't actually follow logic you know it just stops in the middle and it moves somewhere else

and like there's lots of interesting tidbits of stuff in there but because it

follows uh a a doctor that you can't actually

follow comes confusing I've worked with a son

of Freelancers I think subcontracting also attractive kind of relationship in the past and that was the biggest issue

I would say it's not that they do not know how to do the research it's not that they do not um

you know how to write beautiful words is that they do not follow in logic and when you don't follow logic you use your

reader as fast as the other thing I think I believe that

logic doors is that logic restricts your scope and this is like really really important in my seminar thread takeover

I gave the example of tomatoes and how you could write four thousand words about tomatoes and it's true if you do

not follow the logic of the audience who's going to be reading um the animal

that we've written which somehow fights back to knowing who your audience is so

if you if you cannot follow the logic of the audience you end up writing things that are interesting but they don't

really want to know yeah so logic is like being relevant to the audience

yeah it's like asking the answering the why well how

the all the works the wick and the right other and for the Right audience

knowledge level got you yeah that's totally great yeah

the the the who what where and how those are and that's again that goes back to journalism right that's we we answer

those questions as a journalist so you're you're you're asking people and I don't think

they should but I think that's a skill set from journalism that that passes over into content marketing that's

worthwhile so I find a lot of journalists do a really good job with content marketing I think that's one of

the reasons right there yeah I I didn't realize you were a journalist and that's right not trained

per se um I did some writing for a local publication in our state about startups

and all that but I'm not really trained as a journalist that's kind of funny I have done

uh some journalism as an untrained like didn't go to college for it but uh but

you know I found myself doing some journalism Sports journalism at one time and then uh startups and technology that

kind of thing and I have a good friend named Bobby uh weren't you used to be a journalist and he does content marketing

now so I think uh and and I have a site locally in town called Conway scene it's

a lifestyle news site and we are able to get some some students we have three

colleges here one has a PR public relations and Communications Department and I have been able to work with some

students in those Department well there one of them especially was trained as a journalist she's a very good Storyteller

so that is a very good um skill set to have you know and you don't

have to be like you don't have to go to college to pick up journalism skills right you know so anyway just think like

a journalist a little bit yeah I believe so it's in and I think

journalists are also really good at knowing where to stop because I think

this is one of things I really struggled with when I first started out perfectionism and wanted to get it to

the 100 which is also something that people need to remember when they're

trying to skill content is that your 100 is not actually that different

from a 90 student person who's who's reading it yeah I know that because journalists are

always very deadline who oriented so they know where to stop and just ship

well one thing you don't understand maybe in content Marketing in the journalism world is so fast fast paced

and so they can knock out multiple articles in a day because I have to with

a time crunch um whereas in content Marketing in general you can get some time to think about it

time review it time to edit it whatever but journalism don't always have that

luxury they've got to get especially like if there's I did Sports journalism

for a while had to write an article about the game that happened that night and get it up

before I went to bed you know that's uh you have to figure out how you're going

to do it you know so it's kind of interesting it was always interesting to me to watch the game and then like I

write my article and then I'm like look at four or five other people to see how they viewed the game as well we all did

something different it was always kind of fun but anyway

1000 degree code looking at the same event everybody's

got a different thought way of doing it so yeah and I think that's like another thing because

somehow journalists have the uh

when I say Frameworks to make content be memorable even though you're writing on

the time crunch because of these stories and the uh stuff that you put in there it becomes

relatable to the audience and it becomes something that they can remember and that's like a really really good skill

yeah and yeah if they can remember it later that's that's good uh Sports

journalists uh in America from the 20s and 30s was a different animal even up

through the 60s probably uh it was more storytelling if you look back at uh and this you know I'm thinking my my uh my

data set is college football but they came up with names for for some of these

players you don't always get that today for for instance I mean I read a book about Red Grange was a great running

back at the University of Illinois back in the 20s um Grantland

rice in his name he was a great writer back in the day he said he was like a

galloping ghost uh running through the next thing you know that was his name everybody called

him the Galloping ghost that's the kind of thing you got in sports journalism in

that time era you don't get that so much today because you got the internet and everybody saw the game and you have the

AP right up and maybe they throw some stats in not as much storytelling really in in sports Joe I miss that too so

anyway um we gotten sidetracked and that's my fault uh the next one is explicit which

I think you said in the notes is um Clarity can you talk a little bit about that

yeah so um the first day is

if I say something does the other person understand it in a

way that I have settings yeah and I think that comes down to being really

specific with whatever it is that you're saying for example I say

um I say you should create content that is easy to read now easy to read I mean

so many different things so isn't really could be our shots easy to read could be

our big fonts yeah but when you you say

exactly what you want to say so in the example I used for yes what I said was you need to create

content that people do not that uses words that people do not Google as they

read and so the person who's reading this clearly knows that what we're talking about is using simple words when

you write and that's explicit and that's clear and it leaves your it doesn't leave your reader guessing right

right A lot of people talk about um writing for and you know eighth or

ninth grade education level maybe that's an American thing I don't know but um

that that's a similar thing you we use words you don't have to Google you know if you can read on an eighth grade level

education you know you can understand what we're saying and I think you know a lot of companies will throw a lot of

Flowery language in their marketing materials and my favorite example of

this is I don't know if you know Weird Al is but he's a musician in America and he does this a song called mission

our mission statement or whatever the video is a is animated but it is very

much about this you know and I don't have it in front of me so now I would be a hard time but if you go back and

listen to that song you will know exactly what you're saying he's just he's using all these you know core

competencies and you know missions you know blah blah blah very flowery language it's like what does that even

mean and I think that's partly what you're talking about being more specific like my English comp professor in

college would say now Todd I think you need to be a little more specific so yeah always been one of my issues

it's one other thing for struggling a lot it's one thing to have a thought in your

hand in order to be able to convey into the way that it is in your head it's such a way that the other person

and so what I do is if I make editing content for example what I do is I say

what are you trying to see here how does this mean to you

um and we broke that and probe that and probe that also we've gotten to a point where even a five-year-old can

understand what it is then like until there's no more question there's no more what are you trying to say here

is that an internal thing you do with your team or like you know I know that

uh with with website copy um and that kind of thing you can always use something like winter where they

have a w-y-n-t-e-r uh peplahas group where you

know and actually I've done this I've gotten paid a little bit you you look at like the value proposition headline or

whatever tell them if you understand what they're talking about or not it's uh it's a really good thing but how

would like a writer or even a you know regular uh uh company Product Company

execute something like that to know that hey what I'm writing did they is there a filter you're running through do you

like get some people to look it over and go you know tell you if they don't understand what you're talking about

for me I think I've worked long enough with an Editor to be able to sponsor

with my uh content is beginning to sound um what's the world I don't know what

the word is I think for new writers if you can afford to work with an editor for a

while do it if you can't and you can afford to pay an Editor to to earn like

attitude do it I think the final check is when you're reading through the content if

you can afford to then leave it allow it rest for a few days any combat experience that's the best hack believe

me you're going to support places because you've forgotten all about this stuff and then you're reading it now

with fresh eyes and like what what am I trying to say here what I'll be trying to say here

yeah in uh in her book Maddie recommends I think five read-throughs

um and each time you'll see something different that you didn't see and and uh I think that's a good thing I do like

having other people looking over if if it's possible um to to because they see things you

don't see whatever if that's possible if you're a smaller company and you're using freelance writers and you don't

have an editor in place um you know there are some ways you can do that by that have another set of eyes

actually if you go to copy act or something they've done recently I've noticed probably in the last few years and they probably did this before but

they definitely do it now at the top you'll see like the authors the authors Lily Marjo uh peer review Todd Jones

editor Joanna weed so you'll have like three names up there to let you to let

the reader know that it's been filtered through three set of eyes you know and

so that's that's really of course you know not everybody's copy actors but um I guess coming up with some sort of

way to do it I really think editing you know so many people I know have have

said that editing has really improved their writing but so many companies don't take that into consideration they

just get the writers and the right writers right and there's a lot of things again I said knowledge Gap I

think that's the way that's something a freelance writer could bring to the table say hey we really need to have an

editor um anyway so yeah

I think that would be like a very tough conversation to have because I've had awesome I've had the question

they've worked with awesome editors and I've also worked with editors who

are like you know this there's a difference between editing and copy editing and if

you're unfortunate to work with a copy editor what you think is an editor don't

actually the words just get flowery but the uh the essence of the article

doesn't improve so yeah can you tell me it's off

what would be the difference between a copy editor and a regular editor an editor is someone who uh looks at you

article from first of all the content strategy aspect of it how does this

meets the goal of this article how does this

time to bring in business Revenue whatever does this address the audience does this

address such intents does this address you know the reason why it was created for both the company and

experts you know this is laid out logically

where we don't miss stuff and where we're not uh rambling

that's developmental editor and then it's also the next thing is talking

about Clarity and is this Claire and there's this memorable and is this

actionable because you know you can write the best content in the world but if leaders are not having actionable

takeaways then they can Implement because people when people implement the

stuff that you share that's when they remember you that's when they bookmark your article to come back to it that's

when they share it that's when when they want to think about um when they think about a topic you're

the first person to customize because they've taken what you've said and they've gotten results from it and that's what an additive does and editor

go to your accountable to the structure and through the uh goals and to be

answer the goals

I'm sorry you got a visitor there

to the goals and uh structure and Clarity and actionability whereas a copy

editor is trying to make sure that so another a copy editor

sometimes checks to make sure that your links are right and that you're linked

into reputable sites and okay like the final eyes that looks

through the content to make sure that you're using a grammatically correct sentences and that the flow is you know

the Transitions and everything is just there they are fixed the upper layer of the concept

whereas an editor fixes the foundation of the context

and I think in a lot of situations especially maybe smart companies that that particular roles probably put

together like combined because it's kind of hard to you know you're talking about splitting those roles and you have the

money to pay both of them so maybe the Smart Companies got somebody who handles both of it there definitely needs to be

a I guess a proofreading element obviously to make sure the links are correct dramatically correct and the the

editor part of it you're talking about is something I think a lot of companies maybe Miss

um so that would that would be I think it's great if you can do that um memorable how can we make content

more memorable hmm no one you shared about the uh spot

journalism stuff you did back in the day if I were to remember this podcast it

would probably be the first thing that I remember and from there I'll be able to relate to other points that we made on

the podcast because I remember that because that is something that is relatable to me and it's something that

I can easily visualize and that's what memorability is about you want to be

you want to stand out you want the content that you're putting out there to be something that when a reader sees in

future like when a reader is Googling and they see a couple of brand names you

want yours to be the first they click even if it's on position number five and the only way to do that is to create

content that is memorable that we can associate with the filling

a visualization and that's something we achieve through using examples and stories

mm-hmm yeah yeah I think so um

yeah I think another this is kind of an extreme example but one way to be memorable is to create something that no

one else will dare to try to copy your content is so yeah strong so exhaustive

so big so memorable that you know hey I would give it a shot but that's just you

know we don't have the time we're on the resources or whatever because there's so much copycatting in our world you know I

mean um skyscraper content right uh let's take what was there and do it now that

is like a copycat situation you know and that's what they were trying to do originally with copy with skyscraper

content is to do more than but when you start talking about companies putting out books you know stuff like that

you're getting into a different world and you know so

foreign [Music]

you've kind of Frozen up on me I don't know if you can hear that or not I mean

can you hear me okay you're unfroze now

okay

kind of Frozen up

I think she's gonna try to rejoin us

nothing like technical difficulties

so um the next part of her framework is actionable and

um we'll have her on again here shortly but um in her notes she's a step-by-step uh

showing tools takeaways uh I would think like in terms of call to actions getting

the person reading to take a step um there are a lot of ways you can do

that one of which of course is good people to sign up for an email newsletter or to do a download or book a

call those types of things are you there

I am okay I'm just going to leave my video

that's fine that's fine we I kind of moved on to actionable

she is uh had some tech issues today and I think a visitor uh one of our little

uh children is staying home so that's been kind of a challenge for her but

certainly the Lima framework is uh I think a very good framework

and something I think that uh is an easy thing to remember the it's

memorable in that regard that's why I like Frameworks and I have my own I call it the REO framework but the Lima

framework uh logical explicit memorable and actionable so that last in

is to be uh more actionable um have a checklist give them that

checklist um foreign

but I am a fan of checklists and uh

so I asked her some questions in the notes um how can we improve our content quality as a sole or small team

um and she said I think content quality comes down to the brief your goal as a

content manager is to make sure that your brief includes action items that lean into the Lima framework uh Logic

for example is to create or approve outlines and you should this is where you set a logical structure for the

piece call out clearly explain include an

example hey

I'm sorry you're fine I was just trying to answer some of the questions you had

in the uh uh the document and uh but we wanted to kind of finish with the

actionable um okay okay

I don't know how this works I can see you fine

yeah can you uh elaborate on actionable a little bit before we uh wrap this up

sorry what did you say can you um elaborate on being actionable

as we wrap this up okay so the most important thing you want to

do in your content is drive people to take action because the reason why people sign up or the reason why people

read your articles is because they want to do something they want to learn something and Implement what they've

learned to achieve um a goal and so you really want to include

takeaways in in the contents that you've done so if you're sharing um

let's say an uncle about five emails and email templates that people can use to

to warm up their list or something in that um article as you write you're going to

include examples so that people can visualize what it is that they need to do and you're gonna include a specific

step-by-step instructions on how they actually need to do that

I don't know if that makes sense screenshots of you going through the

process so that they can follow along and Achieve what it is that they are trying

to achieve with by reading your article yeah and so you're you're um you're a

fan of uh downloads giveaways

so it works with

foreign

okay you there yeah so I was just saying I'm not a big fan

of um downloads because

I prefer people to give up their emails freely because I'm a copywriter for

example or a Content writer and I know how many email lists I've signed up to just because I wanted a Content asset

and then I never read their emails right yeah I think it's a we've got a

Tipping Point with emails right now and a lot of people have adopted the whole you know

um sign it for me even my email without you know worrying about an asset so

um it's certainly um it's something that I think people are

trying to decide what they want to do with and on that note um marketing cyborg.com is her new

website and you can sign up for her email list and get uh yeah mad

scramblings of marketing Sciences dissecting strategy content and

analytics uh shared one to two times a month so if you want more of what Lily brought

to us today um then go ahead and go to marketingscyborg.com

and sign up for her email newsletter which I actually need to do and then I can get rid of some of the other emails

that I have and focus on yours so

and you're going to do about once or twice a month is that right I'm sorry you're breaking up for me I'm

you got to do emails about once or twice a month yeah yeah I um so I haven't actually

gonna be released Thursday and it's about the Lima framework

nice and after that it's gonna be once or twice a

month yeah yeah very good well thank you for

coming on I know it's a little challenging um but I think we got through it and if

you want to know more about the Lima framework sign up for email newsletter that's coming out Thursday which is

Thanksgiving Day in the States but that'll give us an opportunity to read something that's not Black Friday

related and um so actually I'm gonna do that when we get done here and uh but

anyway thanks for coming on the show thank you thank you so much and I apologies for all the

brokers live shows are always interesting so I know you had your you

had to have your buddy with you today uh he wasn't willing to go away so

um kids kids want what they want right yeah all right thanks Lily

all right thank you bye everyone

well I know it was challenging but I think it still went pretty well it's a

very very very good content and thoughts so I appreciate everyone