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Raymond's Ceiling, Positives From Griffins' 2023-24 Season, Signing Bertuzzi & More | THW Grind Line
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May 27, 2024
In this episode of The Hockey Writers Grind Line, Detroit Red Wings writer Devin Little gets together with producer Matthew Zator to discuss Lucas Raymond's ceiling in the NHL, look back on the Grand Rapids Griffins' successful season, and more. 0:00 Intro 1:12 What is Lucas Raymond's ceiling? 8:32 Who is the ideal linemate for Raymond & Larkin? 11:20 Could the Red Wings sign Tyler Bertuzzi? 12:52 Positives From the Griffins' 2023-24 Season 20:27 Could Cossa be the backup in Detroit next season? Subscribe to THW's Red Wings Substack - https://thehockeywriters.substack.com/subscribe Our Grind Line crew are great writers, too: Devin Little - https://thehockeywriters.com/author/dlittle/ Evan Sabourin - https://thehockeywriters.com/author/esabourin/ And, make sure to check out all of our great Red Wings content - https://thehockeywriters.com/detroit-red-wings/ Graphics by Vince Richard - https://www.behance.net/vincergraphics #redwings #hockeytown #lgrw
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0:00
It's time for the Hockey Writers Grindline
0:05
A weekly show covering everything Detroit Red Wings. Brought to you by our own iconic top line of Wings writers
0:15
Sit back and enjoy The Grind. Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of The Grindline here at the Hockey Writers
0:24
I'm your host Matthew Zatorre and as always joined in by my line mate Devin Little
0:28
We're just at defence pairing on this episode. A quick one we're going to do
0:32
We don't want to leave. We took the week off last week
0:36
We're refreshed. We're back at it. And we don't want to leave you guys with another episode not coming out
0:42
So we're here. Devin, how's it going? We're good. We're good. It's been a minute since we've been in defence pairing
0:47
We've been playing forward so long. Might have a few miscues along the way
0:51
It's been a minute since I played defence. But we'll hopefully this goes smoothly. Yeah
0:57
We'll shift back to defence. Yeah, it's been a bit. But we'll do it
1:02
We'll go through. Yeah, so we're just going to get right into it and talk about the World Championships
1:10
which just ended. Lucas Raymond was prominent in that and helped Sweden win a bronze medal
1:17
So we all know about Lucas Raymond, how well he did during the season
1:22
He won some awards in our grindies there. So great season for him
1:28
And then he caps it off with a bronze medal. We know he's really good
1:33
I mean, we know his right now at least he is really good
1:37
But he has a long career ahead of him with the Red Wings and the NHL here
1:43
Hopefully the whole time with the Red Wings. You never know with the players just don't seem to play for their entire careers with the same team
1:51
But we'll see if Raymond can do it. What do you think Devin is his ceiling
1:55
I mean, we've talked a lot about his potential on this show of how many goals he could score in his career
2:03
But what do you think his ultimate ceiling is in the NHL
2:07
Very young age still. Yeah, I think that's kind of a reoccurring theme from this season is just, oh man, Lucas Raymond has arrived
2:22
And like you said, we have talked about his potential a lot on the show, even going back a couple seasons when he made his rookie debut
2:30
Obviously, you know, choo-choo and all that good stuff. I think that the player that we, so when it comes down to it, I think we're going to look back on 2024 as kind of the year that Lucas Raymond really arrived
2:48
Because, you know, 2023, beginning of it, he's finishing kind of a sophomore slump season
2:54
Second half of 2023 is the beginning of this of this season
3:00
And he obviously looked pretty good. But I feel like once the calendar flipped to 2024 is when he really started to hit that next level and really start to enter the conversation of who's the Red Wings best player
3:15
That's when Dylan Larkin started to miss time and he was kind of, he kind of assumed the role of the Red Wings top forward, which is crazy considering all the other forwards that were on the team, right
3:27
And then, you know, he scored some clutch goals down the stretch when the Red Wings were fighting for the playoff chances
3:36
And then with Sweden, he, you know, not only has a point per game or I think even just a little bit over that, I think he had nine points in eight games or eight points in nine games, something like that
3:45
So he's a, you know, like you said, a prominent player for Sweden
3:49
And he also has an A on his on his sweater. You know, obviously that that kind of shows some faith, not just from a talent perspective, but also, you know, he's kind of looked on to lead the way for what was an NHL lad in roster
4:06
And he's, again, he's only this he's not even old enough to, to rent a car and to be off of his, he would still qualify to get his parents insurance here in the States
4:18
So, like, he's still very young. I think I think the thing that's really exciting to me about Lucas Raymond is that we're starting to see him kind of combine his competitive competitiveness with his skill
4:32
You know, you see just recently against Chechya where he's kind of getting into it with Dominic Kubelik, his, his former teammate with the Red Wings last season
4:43
And even, you know, throughout the season with the Red Wings, he kind of, he has a little bit of chippiness to him
4:47
I think he's gonna, he's gonna assimilate well to playoff hockey when the Red Wings do eventually get there
4:52
And I think it's going to be a key player for them to from an emotional and a offensive standpoint
4:58
So, what do I think his ceiling is? I think he has the potential to be the Red Wings best player, even when all this kind of said and done
5:07
Kind of, I'm gonna say a little tough for me to nail down an exact player that I'm thinking of right now, but almost like a Mitch Marner, a weird comparison to make considering Mike believes have a lot of other guys you can make that argument for
5:22
But Marner is a great player, good playmaking player that has some good strong two-way ability
5:27
I think Raymond kind of fits that category too. But I also think that Raymond's not going to be like a huge scorer
5:35
And it's mostly because he plays for the Red Wings. When I think about the Red Wings and scoring, I think about the fact that Pavel Datsuk never had a 100-point season
5:45
And then there was a period of time when he was probably the best player in the planet
5:49
The Red Wings have always just kind of spread it around. And I think that that will kind of continue to be the case
5:55
I think that Raymond very much has 80-point potential. And I think he even has 90-point potential
6:00
Good consistent 30-goal seasons year after year, maybe even a couple where he hits 40
6:06
And he might even like push towards 100. But I'm going to fall back on the idea of if Pavel Datsuk couldn't do it, then I don't know that Lucas Raymond's going to do it
6:17
But still, if he's a perennial 90-point guy, I think that's all you can ask for, considering where they got him and how important of a pick he was in the middle of the rebuild
6:28
So I continue to be very, very excited about Lucas Raymond. I hope you are too, because especially this year, he's given us all sorts of reasons to be excited about him
6:38
For sure. And the thing is the international, like he had, yeah, four, nine points in 10 games, so four goals in 10
6:47
And last year at the World Championship, he had eight points in eight games. So he seems to be able to step up in the big times
6:54
And like you said, when the playoffs come around, looks like he could be a guy that could be a prominent player in the postseason too
7:03
So that's something that I think he's going to end up becoming
7:08
He's already shown it. I mean, international play is pretty much the playoffs
7:13
You get to a point where you're eliminated if you don't win, and he seems to be able to step up in those occasions
7:19
And World Juniors, I mean, we all know what he did at the World Juniors too
7:23
He was a very, very good player there. Seems to be a guy that's, you know, may end up, well, not may, he will
7:31
He will end up in the Olympics at one point too. So, I mean, maybe in the next one
7:36
I don't know. We'll see. That's something that's coming up in the, what is it, 2026 is the next Olympics? Yeah
7:44
So, I mean, that next, not this coming year, but next year, he could end up being in that discussion to be on Team Sweden
7:52
Because, I mean, they obviously know what he can do wearing that trade crown
7:57
So we'll see. We'll see what that, with that. I do agree
8:02
I think he could be a 30, 40 goal guy. Maybe not always, but definitely in that realm close to it
8:09
He had 30, was it 31 goals this year? Very durable player too
8:15
He's played already two seasons of 82 game seasons. So he's going to have that potential to score that many goals
8:23
One off the rush question I have for you though. I'm not going to ask about, because I've asked this before
8:31
But who do you think would be the best? Because he already has counter Stewart-Dylan Larkin
8:38
Who do you think would complete that line? I mean, it doesn't have to be a guy that's already on the Red Wings
8:44
But in the NHL, who do you think would be the best guy that the Red Wings could get
8:49
I know it may be a loaded question, but who do you feel would complement those two the best
8:55
Realistically, there's a couple of options that come to mind. One of which we saw a lot this season
9:03
Alex Dabrinkia, it seems like the Larkin, Dabrinkia, and Raymond line was just kind of consistently really, really good
9:12
They consistently were able to apply pressure. It seems like if one guy wasn't scoring and the other two were, it was hard to contain them
9:23
And I think that while I understood why they put Dabrinkia with Patrick Kane once they signed him
9:30
it was one of those things where late in the season, Dabrinkia played with Larkin and Raymond because they just had it going
9:38
And it was kind of loading up the top line, but it is what it is
9:43
The other guy that kind of comes to mind aside from Dabrinkia is actually Carter Mazur
9:50
And the reason why Carter Mazur comes to mind is because Carter Mazur has always kind of reminded me of Tyler Bertuzzi
9:55
He's that type of player, kind of scrappy, goes to the dirty areas, is willing to get his nose a little dirty and do the ugly work, so to speak
10:06
That's Bertuzzi. And in Raymond's first season with the Red Wings, the top line was Larkin, Raymond, and Tyler Bertuzzi
10:15
And they worked really well together. There were plenty of games where they were the Red Wings' only line that could do anything
10:21
So why not kind of remake that line just with Mazur instead of Bertuzzi
10:28
And I think that Mazur would provide just an added level of sandpaper that you wouldn't get with a Dabrinkia
10:35
And that would allow Dabrinkia to play lower in the lineup as well with whoever is there, whether that's Patrick Kane or whoever
10:44
But I think both would be good options. And both have, at least in Dabrinkia's case, he's proven that he looks good alongside those two others
10:52
And Mazur is the profile of a player that has looked good alongside those two as well
10:57
I like that Carter Mazur one. I think he could potentially be, we've talked about him potentially making the lineup next year
11:05
And I don't know if he jumps right to that top line, but maybe a future line mate for them
11:12
We know Larkin and Raymond are going to be Red Wings for a long, long time. So Mazur is going to have a chance to get that
11:19
And one quick one. You mentioned Bertuzzi. He's a free agent coming up
11:24
Do you see a world that the Red Wings return to that and maybe put their hat in the ring to get Bertuzzi back
11:31
Could I see a world? Absolutely. Obviously, it would depend on term and money and this and that and this and that
11:39
But no, I could definitely see it. Obviously, Larkin and Bertuzzi were very close
11:44
I think of Larkin choking up and tearing up when he was speaking to the media after that Bertuzzi trade
11:52
And spent a lot of years together. And obviously, I just mentioned the chemistry that Bertuzzi had with Larkin and Raymond
11:58
So often when you sign free agents, you're like, how are they going to fit? Do we know if they're going to fit this or that
12:06
You know, Tyler Bertuzzi would fit. So that's about as safe of a bet as you could make in free agency
12:12
It just kind of would depend on what it always depends on, right? Term and dollars
12:18
He didn't leave the Red Wings on bad terms. It's not like he requested a trade or stuff like that
12:24
So yeah, it definitely be something that the Red Wings entertain. I don't know
12:29
I know the Bruins are talking about getting Bertuzzi back, too. And obviously the Maple Leafs are looking at getting him back because he was pretty good at the end of the season for him
12:41
So, yeah, that's just a name that seems to be. Bertuzzi could end up being back in Detroit. We'll see
12:49
All right. Let's move on to the AHL team in the Grand Rapids Griffins who finished their series in Milwaukee Admirals
12:57
Unfortunately, losing the game and the series three to the best of five
13:02
But so I mean, but they were right in it right to the end. And it was, you know, deep in the playoffs
13:08
So very good for the Griffins who made the playoffs in a bit
13:13
So very, very good postseason for them and season in general. So what do you think? I mean, what about their season
13:22
Are you the most encouraged by lots of prospects that played most of the year there
13:26
It wasn't called up or a lot of call ups because of the veteran laden roster
13:32
So they had a lot of players down there for most of the season
13:36
What are you what are the positives from it that you're taking away
13:41
Well, first and foremost, it looks like the Griffins have found their coach with Dan Watson
13:47
Obviously, the previous coach, Ben Simon. Just he got them to the playoffs a couple of years in the early in the early part of his tenure
13:56
But then basically once once the pandemic began, they never got back there and they never quite looked like the Griffins of old
14:04
We'll just say so to bring in Dan Watson as a first year, first time AHL head coach and to have a season like this
14:14
It's exciting. It's reassuring that they found their guy, really. And it's also a good thing that he has a good relationship with Derek Lallone, the head coach in Detroit
14:27
Lallone speaks highly of him whenever he has the opportunity. So, you know, that the organization organization is in sync when it comes to the NHL and the AHL team
14:40
And that's really important, especially for a team like Detroit, that's very much in a developmental phase of their build
14:48
The other parts, other things that I'm excited about, obviously, individual players
14:54
I think Sebastian Costa had a really good year. I think that he especially late down late in the season, he kind of cemented himself as the top option and goal for the Griffins
15:03
And that's exactly what you wanted to see. And now, you know, moving into the offseason and next season, the question is, is how much longer does Costa have in the AHL
15:16
I'm of the belief that he has one more year in Grand Rapids to go, probably as the the top, you know, the no question bonafide top guy
15:25
He's going to play, you know, 50 to 60 games and they'll have a backup of some sort behind him
15:30
I think that's kind of the next step for him. And it's, again, awesome to see him look like the goalie they drafted him to be this year
15:38
And then also just development of key prospects. You know, there's a lot of guys that looked really good
15:44
Some players that are more important to the organization than others. But to see guys like Marco Kasper really come alive over the course of the season and start to fit in with the team and playing a North American style game
16:00
Carter Mazur looking like a bona fide pro, and he definitely looks like somebody's gonna be pushing next season
16:05
Simon Edmondson looking like a man against boys a lot of times in that league
16:10
No question he'll be in the NHL, we hope. And just down the list, I mean, even just seeing Nate Danielson get a couple games with the Griffins in their second round series against the Admirals
16:26
Even that's exciting to see just because, you know, pipelines and just kind of continuously produce guys
16:32
And I guess one last player I'll shout out to is Jonathan Bergeron, who was by far their best forward, outproduced everybody on the roster
16:41
Was, again, by far their best forward, not just in terms of production, but just the eye test
16:48
He regularly was making things happen. He regularly looked like their best player
16:53
Probably because he played 60 NHL games last year, but you know. I feel like he handled this season as best as you could have asked him to
17:06
He spent the year down there, was called up when he could be and played up there, played in Detroit when he could
17:13
And then when he was sent back to Grand Rapids, he went back and dominated and continued to dominate
17:18
I think there's no question, you know, there are lesser players that would have handled it a lot worse than he would have
17:26
And I think that there's no question in my mind that he is too good for the NHL. He's going to be in the NHL next season, whether it's with the Red Wings or someone else, he's earned it
17:36
And I think it's fitting that with their backs against the wall in Game 4, they're down by 2 or they're down by 3 against the Admirals
17:52
And who leads the charge in the third period to get a win
17:57
And they were down by 2. Jonathan Bergeron, he gets two goals, basically tying the game up by himself
18:06
And then he seemingly scored a hat trick to seal a victory and then his first goal was later credited to Marco Kasper, so he did only end up with two goals
18:17
But he was on the ice, he was making things happen, right? He was the first star of the night for a reason
18:24
I think that there's a lot of places you can point to and go, that's promising, that's promising on this Griffins team
18:30
And for all intents and purposes, I think there's a lot of guys that will not be on the team next year, but a lot of guys that will return and will be on the team next year
18:39
And I think that if you're a Griffins fan, you should be very excited about what this team could do next year because I think they aren't looking to just make the playoffs and have a run next year
18:53
I think that they're going to be looking to add a banner to the rafters at Van Andel Arena
18:59
And I think that they very well might have the talent to do it. Yeah, I mean, a lot of the younger prospects will be in the roster next year again
19:08
Mazer maybe as well. I mean, we'll see if he makes the team, but he could be up and down throughout the season
19:15
Had eight points in nine games overall. And, like I said, Bergeren, 10 points in nine games, that was leading the way
19:24
Yeah, guys like that, you're expecting to dominate. They are, and that's great
19:31
And having, like you say, Danielson getting that bit of experience in the Colder Cup playoffs, that was good
19:37
He didn't get any points, but didn't get much of ice time either. I mean, they're not going to be given a ton
19:44
But yeah, very encouraging. A lot of the guys you mentioned. And with Bergeren, it's tough
19:53
I don't know if he's going to be on the team. There are not a lot of roster spots open up because there weren't a lot
20:01
There are not a lot of free agents leaving the team this coming offseason
20:06
So he's going to have to fight his way on. Or like you say, he could be on another team too, because we've talked about him as being a trade piece
20:14
For the Red Wings. So yeah, and Kasper, four goals, two. So lots of encouraging signs coming out for a lot of these players and for the team in general
20:26
Do you see Kosa fighting for the backup spot next year, or is that too early
20:34
I see him fighting for it. I don't see him fighting for it. I think that he's going to hopefully be a very strong number three on the depth chart
20:47
With the potential to surprise a lot of people and end up playing a handful, if not more, games in Detroit
20:56
Especially if injuries happen. Lord knows, Villejuso had a heck of a go this season
21:02
So if that were to continue and Huso still with the Red Wings next year, I think you might see a lot of Alex Line and a lot of Sebastian Kosa
21:11
Which could be frightening if you're looking at it from one perspective, but also could be very, very exciting if you're looking at it from another
21:18
I don't know. I'll depend on if Eisermann signs another veteran goaltender for Detroit
21:26
If that happens, they're for sure wanting Kosa to play the full season again, which could be good for him
21:34
I don't know. There's always a balancing act with rookie goaltenders. Do you want them playing the backup and playing only 25, 30 games
21:44
Or do you want them playing upwards of 60 down in the minors, which is probably better for their development
21:50
Then you're also looking at, they're getting more time with the goaltending coach up in the NHL
21:56
You're learning from the starter. It's where you think, I guess, where they are in their development
22:03
What's better for them? And that's always a tough thing with goaltenders. But we'll have to see what happens coming up for Kosa
22:11
It's very encouraging that he had such a great season because there were some worries that maybe he wasn't what everyone thought he was
22:20
It's good his development's on the upward trend rather than the middling or downward
22:25
We will see. That's a quick episode for us here on the grindline
22:33
We'll just have to find out what Eisermann has in store. We're going to talk about free agency, lots of stuff coming up, trades on the next episode
22:45
We'll have Evan back for that one. Thanks, Devin, for joining me here
22:51
Make sure to check out everything at thehawkeyewriters.com. We've got articles out every day on different things for the off-season
22:59
And the draft coming up, which the Red Wings have a pretty high pick in. That's a little over a month away
23:05
We're closing in on a month, actually. The 28th, 29th is June, right
23:11
28th and 29th. And we're on the 26th. We're coming up on a month
23:17
Lots of draft content coming and lots of great guests we have lined up coming up in the off-season
23:25
Not all of them are confirmed, but look forward to it. We're going to have some exciting stuff coming up
23:30
Make sure to check out everything else. And until next time, we'll see you on another episode of The Grind
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