0:06
hi everyone I'm Kelly ooro and this is
0:09
adaptable Behavior explained hi welcome
0:13
everybody thanks for joining this
0:14
episode of our show uh part of this
0:16
series of the counselor Cafe which is
0:19
where I get together with other
0:20
therapists uh and counselors and we
0:23
discuss important mental health issues
0:25
and societal topics that are plaguing
0:27
all of us and hopefully we can help our
0:30
viewers in a collective way today I am
0:33
very excited to bring to you a couple
0:35
other uh therapists and friends of mine
0:37
Rota Gala who works with me at infinite
0:40
healing and wellness she is a rock star
0:43
awesome human and therapist and new mom
0:46
and Jamie Castillo who is the owner of
0:49
Find Your Shine Therapy in Tempe Arizona
0:52
and another rock star EMDR therapist uh
0:55
and friend so thank you both so much for
0:57
being here yeah thanks for having me
0:59
yeah so can you tell me a little bit
1:01
about yourselves Rota why don't you go
1:03
first and just why this topic and
1:06
episode were was a passion for you oh my
1:09
gosh I don't know if I could say enough
1:11
um I'm a new mom I have a 10-month-old
1:14
son and so this is like a very fresh
1:17
Journey for me um and I was just amazed
1:21
at how much I didn't know or realize
1:26
even though people probably talk to me
1:30
I guess for me I just wanted to
1:32
normalize that experience for other moms
1:35
you know that they're not going through
1:37
whatever they're going through alone
1:38
it's not something that's just happening
1:40
to them cuz that's kind of how I felt in
1:42
the beginning until I started connecting
1:44
with some of my mom friends and things
1:46
like that so that was my biggest
1:49
motivation for being thank you so much
1:51
for being here I really appreciate it
1:53
and as as a friend and colleague I've
1:55
seen such an evolution in you with your
1:58
levels of authenticity and transp
1:59
parency I think nothing really just hits
2:01
home the reality button like having a
2:04
child so I really I I've loved watching
2:07
that personally with you uh Jamie how
2:09
about you what what does what made you
2:11
decide this was a good topic for you to
2:13
talk about with us today well I too am a
2:15
new mom I have a 16-month-old and my
2:18
husband and I joke about the fact that
2:21
she came in like a wrecking ball she
2:23
sort of blew up everything little Miley
2:25
Cyrus action all the Norms all the
2:30
everything that was uh a norm for us was
2:34
just sort of exploded and imploded and
2:37
um I to felt very ill-prepared I am a
2:40
therapist I had knowledge logical
2:42
knowledge of postpartum shifts and the
2:45
fact that change is hard and babies are
2:46
hard and was completely blindsided still
2:50
and so my thought is that if I can have
2:52
all of that information and still be
2:53
blindsided lots of other people can too
2:56
and so I too am here to help normalize
2:58
some of the shifts that I experienced
3:00
because I wish I had had more
3:02
information I I totally can appreciate
3:05
that for for those of you who don't know
3:07
I too am a mom my youngest though is 22
3:11
my oldest is going to be 33 actually
3:14
next week and I have also have five
3:17
grandchildren so I bring a a a pretty
3:20
robust amount of experience but being a
3:22
new mom although I remember so much of
3:24
it likely trauma informed so deeply uh
3:28
vividly I don't remember like it was
3:30
yesterday in that like I said my
3:31
youngest is 22 but I didn't have a
3:34
normal pregnancy and delivery and all of
3:36
that either and I also wanted to be able
3:40
listeners when you have more than one
3:42
child some of the Dynamics that uh that
3:45
impact us and so this will be a two-part
3:47
episode uh because I think we could
3:50
probably talk about each one of these
3:51
topics we're going to address today
3:53
literally in its own episode and perhaps
3:55
we we will even do that so thank you so
3:57
much for being here I appreciate it so
4:00
let's talk first about the things nobody
4:02
warned us about right where was the
4:04
label where was the you might want to
4:06
take this preest before you decide to
4:09
have a child and uh and actually I think
4:12
you know Rota you and I have discussed
4:13
before there's a lot of social pressure
4:16
for women oftentimes to have children
4:18
and I think so many women have kids
4:20
because they're supposed to or because
4:22
it's part of their culture whether it's
4:24
familial religious you know uh whatever
4:29
the reason may be and I think one of the
4:31
cautionary things we want to talk about
4:32
is the shoulds and supposed to is about
4:34
even deciding to be a mom at the in the
4:36
first place so what would you say about
4:38
that rotna yeah I I want to Echo what
4:41
you said Kelly I think so much pressure
4:44
society and then me being Indian
4:46
definitely a cultural aspect to it right
4:49
that's such a big deal even that
4:51
pressure to get married young and things
4:53
like that so that you can have children
4:56
right is just considered such a big and
4:58
important part of life and after doing
5:00
it I'm so glad that I really wanted it I
5:05
myself um and I'm grateful for that
5:08
because after having done it um if I had
5:11
done it for anybody else right because
5:14
of who was in my ear or to make other
5:17
people happy I think I would have had a
5:20
lot of resentment about that that makes
5:23
so much sense yeah way too much work for
5:26
for doing it for some this isn't
5:27
something you half ass commit to this
5:30
reminder every moment of every day that
5:32
it's never going away and even when
5:34
they're adults I mean my adult children
5:36
I people go oh it's going to be so much
5:38
easier when they're adults and I'm I I
5:41
think to that about that I go um it's
5:44
way more serious problems typically and
5:46
you are z% you have zero control over
5:49
any of the outcomes so you're just
5:51
watching you know sometimes trains just
5:54
about to crash and you are like wow
5:56
there is not a damn thing I can do about
5:58
it so it's a never ever ending
6:00
Relentless concern when you love your
6:02
children and so I think that's an
6:04
incredibly important point to bring up
6:07
because it's not going away Jamie how
6:09
about you what are your thoughts on the
6:10
decision to have a child so my husband
6:13
and I tried to get pregnant and pursued
6:15
fertility treatments for about four
6:17
years prior to finally getting and
6:21
keeping a pregnancy so we we had a lot
6:23
of loss along the way and it you know
6:25
it's it's sort of when it when it's
6:27
something that feels so Out Of Reach it
6:28
almost in my experience makes you want
6:30
it more it it it you know the drive to
6:34
just have a baby at the end of it was so
6:38
strong for me and I think that in itself
6:40
created a little bit more shame when I
6:43
had her and things felt really really
6:45
bad and awful and wrong and I I have a
6:47
distinct memory of my husband saying
6:50
what's wrong like we wanted this she's
6:52
here this is our end goal and I was like
6:55
I don't know I just feel bad and so um I
6:59
can relate to you know the I can't
7:01
imagine what it would have been like had
7:03
I Fallen pregnant by accident and was
7:06
sort of on the fence about could I do
7:07
this could I not like I was prepared I
7:09
have resources I have support I am older
7:12
so I have my Sho together a little bit
7:16
um I can't imagine and I had the thought
7:18
so many times like I can't imagine what
7:20
um other women might be going through
7:22
who were who were less prepared or less
7:25
enthusiastic about having a child well
7:27
and the powerlessness that is part of
7:30
you know we grow up thinking oh I'm just
7:33
going to when I'm ready I'm going to
7:35
choose to have a child and it's going to
7:36
be just we're going to just do that and
7:39
and my experience was a little bit like
7:41
that uh but the powerlessness that
7:43
happens for someone who thinks that it's
7:46
going to be just that way and then lo
7:48
and behold four years later it's almost
7:50
like something on a to-do list that's a
7:52
anguish grasping and so helpless and so
7:55
powerless so thank you for sharing that
7:56
I think that could be its own show for
8:00
and um I can say that my uh my youngest
8:04
is 7 years younger than the next oldest
8:06
and so even though my husband and I were
8:08
only married for at that point a year it
8:12
was it was like a decision of do we want
8:14
to have a child of our own and if so we
8:17
better get to it or we're going to have
8:18
two completely separate families with
8:20
more than a seven-year birth order
8:22
spread and as it is we're going to have
8:24
10 years of an only or you know seven
8:26
years of an only child at this point so
8:28
what what let's get to it and so we were
8:31
ready I stopped using birth control and
8:33
I I find out that I'm pregnant by
8:35
actually having two lemon drops up at a
8:37
bar in Washington with my cousin and I
8:39
went straight to the bathroom to throw
8:41
up and I was like what in the hell is
8:43
going on and my body was pregnant and my
8:47
baby was like no we're not doing that
8:48
anymore and I just went and rushed in
8:50
the bathroom and my cousin looked at me
8:51
and she's like you're pregnant I was
8:53
like shut up we had literally stopped
8:55
using birth control for one month and
8:56
I'm like oh that was fast and and I I
8:59
went home and took the test and I I I
9:02
just started crying and I looked at my
9:04
husband I was like oh I oh oh this is oh
9:06
I don't think so I don't know what to do
9:08
with this and he goes you can't say that
9:10
we we you can't say you're scared or
9:12
whatever he was so upset that my
9:14
reaction was terrified because it was
9:17
happening and even though I decided for
9:19
it to happen that reality of oh wow
9:24
everything is going to turn upside down
9:28
and I decided did that for myself so I
9:31
mean everyone has a different experience
9:32
for sure when you find out you're
9:34
pregnant I mean what was that like for
9:37
Jamie well we had a a rocky road um but
9:42
I think to point out to piggyback off of
9:44
something that you said I I heard the
9:46
quote pregnancy in motherhood is like
9:48
the single biggest juxtaposition in the
9:50
world and and it is that right like
9:53
there's so much both and I'm I'm
9:57
terrified and excited excited I'm
10:00
grateful and grieving I'm you know it's
10:04
just this this big contradiction that
10:06
exists all at once in my experience for
10:09
so many I think for most I mean I we can
10:12
never say all but I think for most that
10:13
would be true I mean if we take it
10:15
seriously and we're in our body this is
10:17
going to be a big freaking deal like no
10:20
matter what way you cut it it's going to
10:21
be a big deal yeah so to your original
10:24
question you know we had we I too
10:28
thought like oh I'll just go off birth
10:30
control when I'm ready and then we'll
10:31
have a baby in like nine months or so so
10:34
the years went by and I was like okay
10:37
there's something going on here so we
10:39
pursued fertility treatment and actually
10:41
fell pregnant on the first uh IUI
10:44
procedure is what we did and so I felt
10:48
really excited I was like well this is
10:50
just the ticket this is just what we
10:52
needed to do and that pregnancy ended in
10:53
miscarriage and so we were really
10:56
grieving but also very hopeful right cuz
10:58
we were like we found found something
10:59
that's the answer if we just do this
11:01
fertility treatment it worked on the
11:03
first try um it'll happen again and so
11:06
then you know after doing several more
11:08
iuis and then moving to IVF and having
11:10
failed cycles and canceled cycles and
11:12
more losses when I finally fell pregnant
11:15
and it it lasted I mean it was just
11:16
Terror I just felt Panic the entire nine
11:20
months because you were impending doom
11:22
waiting for the other shoe to drop I'm
11:24
sure yeah that makes sense can't even
11:26
imagine thank you how about for you Rota
11:29
um I'm like trying to go back to that
11:31
time um how Associated were
11:35
you I was just so focus on Jamie and her
11:38
story um we I just I was kind of in
11:42
disbelief you know we're like is the
11:44
test wrong like do we need to do we need
11:46
to take another test so we did and then
11:49
we were we were just really excited I I
11:53
can really relate to what you were
11:54
saying about that gapos of of all of
11:56
these emotions kind of existing at one
11:59
time um and I think that came for me
12:02
more later on but when we found out we
12:04
were just we were so excited nervous
12:07
little bit but mostly well it's the same
12:09
it's the same chemical you know nervous
12:11
and excited it's just the way we relate
12:14
to it you go to get on a roller coaster
12:16
and you're nervous but then you're on it
12:18
and you're excited same chemicals so
12:20
yeah part of it's like the preparedness
12:21
and what is it that we're looking for
12:23
and I think I had both and once it
12:25
settled in it it was it was also more
12:27
excited um but but you know there's
12:30
things that make it not exciting so even
12:32
when you chose it and even when you
12:34
wanted it so the pregnancy experience
12:37
let's talk about that because you know
12:39
some people they oh I love being
12:42
pregnant and it's so fantastic and I
12:44
would do it all day and I'm just like
12:47
that was just not my experience I mean I
12:49
loathed it all but maybe a couple of
12:51
months of being pregnant for for some
12:54
reasons that we'll talk about so so R
12:56
tell us about your pregnancy experience
12:58
is there anything was there anything
12:59
noteworthy are you one of those you
13:01
might hate me um I I don't think I'm a I
13:04
loved being pregnant but I was really
13:07
lucky that for the most part my my
13:09
pregnancy went really smoothly except
13:11
for you know the typical stuff like the
13:13
body aches the nausea stuff like that
13:16
sometimes um I I was really fortunate so
13:19
yes please don't don't hate me that's
13:22
valid too yeah it's valid but she
13:27
sucks and I still love
13:29
her yeah I had a different experience I
13:33
mean I I certainly felt like it could
13:35
have gone worse I didn't have I so one
13:38
thing that went really well for me is I
13:39
didn't have a ton of sickness like
13:40
morning sickness I felt pretty good in
13:43
that regard um one thing I didn't like
13:47
was being unable to breathe I always
13:50
felt winded and out of breath toward
13:52
toward like six months and on I peed my
13:55
pants a lot of course I peed my pants
13:58
everybody my age pees their pants it's
14:00
the coolest that's the best you're like
14:02
I think I have to go oh too late like
14:05
full bladder just released when I
14:07
sneezed awesome so cool man you're at
14:10
Safeway you pee your pants change of
14:13
plans going to head home
14:17
now it's like you need to wear diapers
14:19
it's the worst it's the worst uh I'll
14:22
share a little bit about my pregnancy
14:24
experience because I think there are a
14:26
lot of viewers who had you know really
14:29
hard times and I want to make sure that
14:31
they know you know you're not alone in
14:33
that um so I get pregnant and and I'm
14:36
healthy the whole time but I'm I'm sick
14:39
so whereas most people are like how much
14:42
did you gain I literally lost 13 pounds
14:44
when I got pregnant because I threw up
14:46
for four months all day long I could not
14:48
keep anything down uh I was Rh negative
14:51
so I had to get that R negative shot did
14:53
you guys have to get that yes that was
14:55
so painful okay I have a funny story
14:59
about this that maybe I'll tell later no
15:01
tell it now do it okay so I did IVF
15:05
right so I injected myself with
15:06
progesterone and oil shots every day for
15:10
months each cycle so so I did that a lot
15:13
and I remember going in for the Rh
15:15
negative shot and she was like have you
15:16
had these before and I was like No And
15:19
she goes okay they're really painful so
15:22
like I can do it in your butt or your
15:24
arm like which do you think and I was
15:25
like oh my God I don't know what do you
15:27
think like what's less and she said the
15:29
butt and I said all right let's do it
15:32
and and then she which is where I gave
15:33
myself the IVF shots and so then she she
15:37
was like fiddling with the packaging and
15:40
and I could hear it and I was just
15:41
bracing myself right like oh this is
15:43
going to be so painful and then she's
15:45
like are you okay and I was like yeah
15:49
are you going to do it and she's like
15:50
it's done and I was like that was
15:53
nothing and it and then I realized like
15:55
it's because basically I felt like my
15:59
your butt was numb or
16:01
something it had probably developed some
16:04
kind of callous I don't
16:06
know I was like got it that was a breeze
16:10
compared to I my gosh well I won't I
16:13
won't you know play my little violin
16:15
then because I was like what did you
16:17
just I like almost had a reaction of
16:18
swinging and hitting her it was so
16:20
painful and I couldn't believe it cuz
16:22
you know everyone's had shots and why
16:24
the hell is that thing so painful what
16:26
do you think it is I don't know man so
16:28
is like this long it was horrible it was
16:30
horrible and and for those who don't
16:32
know what that Rh factor piece is it's
16:34
you carry something that would
16:36
potentially reject your baby and you
16:38
would Mis carry because it sees it as a
16:40
foreign object and that that it needs to
16:43
fight and so when they have that marker
16:44
in your blood they do this thing to
16:46
prevent you from you know miscarrying
16:48
your your child and so I happen to have
16:51
that one so anyways uh thanks for
16:53
sharing that so I'm throwing up you know
16:55
for 4 months I don't want to use my sick
16:57
leave because I want to save it for when
16:59
I have the child and so I'm at work and
17:02
I share an office with this lady I
17:03
worked at the YMCA at the time and I am
17:05
just constantly wretching dry heing
17:08
mostly because I can't keep anything
17:09
down and she's like can't you go home
17:12
you know she's so mad at me I'm
17:13
disrupting the work environment and I
17:15
and I just said I don't have the time to
17:16
burn and so you know there's this whole
17:19
having to ration your time off so that
17:21
you can be with your child and I'm
17:22
legitimately throwing up all day and it
17:25
was just horrible and so I I hate the
17:27
first more than trimester cuz I don't
17:29
stop throwing up for that and then you
17:32
know I end up um getting hemorrhoids
17:36
which happens to so many people but we
17:38
were in the Navy at the time my husband
17:40
was and so we're at the naval war
17:42
college and there's it's a teaching
17:45
facility and so I go in because I'm just
17:48
like these hemorrhoids are so painful
17:50
and so I go to get them looked at to
17:52
find out is there anything we can do
17:53
this is a little bit further along in my
17:55
pregnancy as he's getting bigger and
17:57
they're like wow wow these are some of
17:59
the worst temps I've ever seen and so
18:02
can we bring in all the students and so
18:04
there's just this there's just this like
18:07
sure you know sure why not let's have
18:10
everybody look at my ass like this isn't
18:12
vulnerable at all and also really
18:14
embarrassing and so everyone's learning
18:16
you know what do you do and they're all
18:17
talking about what they could do to make
18:19
the pressure relieve and all this other
18:21
stuff and it was just mortifying I mean
18:23
you just the humility like or the
18:25
humiliation that you almost feel but
18:27
also the alization of there's nothing
18:30
sacred anymore like you're just ass out
18:33
spread seven people like checking
18:35
everything out and because it's just
18:38
part of the gig for once you're pregnant
18:40
they're always looking at everything you
18:42
know so I just I just found it so so
18:45
hard and then I get this other symptom
18:47
that is only happening for 3% of people
18:50
which is a hernia that happened in my
18:52
labia so I look like I have this worm
18:55
like penis something on just one side of
18:57
my body and I'm just like and there's
19:01
there's veins I mean he's N9 lbs so
19:03
there's veins coming through this labia
19:05
hernia and it is horrific and it's so
19:08
painful and it's so ugly and I'm crying
19:11
in the mirror like what is happening to
19:14
my body and is it ever going to be
19:15
normal again and is my husband going to
19:18
love me anymore that I'm just ruined and
19:21
you know am I going to have so many
19:23
stretch marks I mean just all of those
19:25
pieces so the being pregnant part people
19:28
have some people have really good
19:30
experiences but I had a very hard
19:32
pregnancy and it's just so hard and not
19:35
that's not even delivery yeah it just it
19:37
completely changes you inside and out
19:41
there's no there's no getting around
19:43
that so you know pregnancy is different
19:46
for everyone and and I do have to say
19:49
that thankfully my symptoms all shifted
19:52
you know my stomach went back I was very
19:55
blessed to not have a lot of stretch
19:56
marks you know the whole hernia cleared
19:59
up just by delivering and that was gone
20:01
immediately thank God because that was
20:04
so awful and painful I mean I thought I
20:06
was going to have to go have surgery for
20:08
this thing because it was so painful and
20:10
you know everything else cleared up as
20:11
well so I don't want to scare people
20:14
away from ever having a baby but I do
20:15
think it's important that we're honest
20:17
about what can happen as a result of the
20:20
metamorphosis of converting fuel into a
20:24
human I mean it is a taxing thing for
20:26
our bodies to go through and so I think
20:29
it's important that we're just honest
20:31
and and transparent about it and that it
20:33
is a crapshoot about what your
20:34
experience will be for sure I really
20:37
appreciate you guys talking with me
20:39
about this in our next episode we're
20:41
going to talk about the preparation and
20:43
delivery and a whole bunch of other
20:45
topics related to being a new mom so
20:49
thank you so much for tuning into to
20:50
this episode I appreciate your time and
20:53
don't forget to lead with love it'll
