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James O'Brien reacts as Trump claims that he was dragged out of Ground Zero on 9/11.
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0:00
It changed the United States' relationship with both itself and the rest of the world
0:05
There's probably some sort of timeline from the Patriot Act that came in as a consequence
0:09
right through to many of the depravities that Donald Trump has inflicted on the world
0:14
And remember, he continues to tell actual lies about what happened that day
0:20
what he was doing that day, and where he was that day. The president of the United States, and we thought George W. Bush was perhaps a little bit suboptimal
0:30
And now you've got the president of the United States of America approaching this anniversary by lying through his teeth
0:36
I don't know whether or not without 9-11 you would never have had Donald Trump
0:43
But certainly the vulnerability that it exposed at the heart of the American dream was something that we have subsequently discovered left much of the population vulnerable to the populist snake oil salesman
0:58
And if the right populist snake oil salesman came along promising to, wait for it, make America great again, not really knowing what it means
1:06
But I suspect September the 11th was a day upon which America did not feel great
1:11
It felt vulnerable, it felt threatened, and it felt attacked, because it was all of those things
1:17
And you don't get to wipe that slate clean and start afresh the next morning
1:21
It changed the world. That's in one way. And then, of course, it changed a million worlds
1:28
It changed countless worlds on a very individual and personal level. But oh, the humanity
1:36
Oh, the humanity. I wondered, is it appropriate to do this? And then I thought it couldn't actually be more appropriate because Donald Trump is now the president of the United States of America
1:45
And those of us who care about truth and decency have failed utterly to make other people aware of how dismal his depravity is and how awful for the world, not just for the United States of America
2:00
We failed utterly And so I will try again because this is President Trump on Tuesday lying I want to just thank my people I took a lot of my I was building a big building in New York
2:13
and I took the whole crew down there right after this happened and they had no hesitation
2:19
Everybody went down with me. We went down as a big group of people. There wasn't too much we could do, I'll be honest
2:25
It was raw. Nobody's seen anything like it ever. We had other buildings
2:31
the United States Steel Building was creaking, really creaking. And we thought it was going to fall down
2:36
The truth is it creaked a lot. It creaked. It still creaks. But it never came down
2:44
And I'll never forget two firemen. We thought it was coming down on top of us and two firemen, big, strong guys
2:51
And I'm not the smallest guy in the world. They grabbed me under the arms and said, got to get out of here
2:56
And they literally lifted me up. This is not easy to do
3:01
I'm big. They lifted me up and they started running with me. I said, fellas, I can run myself
3:07
But they were amazing. But they thought it was coming down. It didn't come down. And here he is lying in April
3:12
I predicted all of it. I predicted Osama bin Laden would knock out the World Trade Center
3:19
I made that prediction a year before he did. I said, you better get him. He's a bad guy
3:22
I watched him be interviewed one time and I said, that's a bad guy. You better get him
3:28
one year before exactly. I wrote it in a book. You can even check about a year before the World
3:35
Trade Center then came down. President Clinton actually had a shot at him and he didn't take it
3:42
Unfortunately, I'm not blaming him for that, but he didn't take it. And he ended up knocking down the World Trade Center. But I predicted that too. I predicted a
3:51
lot of things. He didn't predict any of those things. He is lying about the tragedy that we
3:56
have spent three hours in london in britain thousands of miles away from new york reflecting
4:00
on and feeling profoundly moved by and this man lies about it he lied about it on tuesday he lied
4:06
about it in april and he lied about it in 2001 as you walked around and as you saw the piles of rubble there are thousands of families out there who are hoping that someone might be in a pocket somewhere still alive still breathing waiting to be dug up As you assess that damage from your perspective do you believe that possible
4:24
Well, I would certainly not want to be the one to say it's not possible. Certainly it's a tough situation, but you can't give up hope
4:31
And then finally, a lie so egregious and so hideous because the arrogance and the conceit and the self-interest
4:40
that lies behind the actual lie is still 25 years later beyond my comprehension
4:50
Donald, you have one of the landmark buildings down in the financial district, 40 Wall Street
4:55
Did you have any damage or what's happened down there? Well, it was an amazing phone call I made
5:00
40 Wall Street actually was the second tallest building in downtown Manhattan
5:05
And it was actually before the World Trade Center was the tallest. And then when they built the World Trade Center, it became known as the second tallest
5:12
And now it's the tallest. Not only the lie is abhorrent, but also, of course, the fact that even if it was true
5:19
it would, in his head, be an appropriate thing to mention in that moment
5:23
And I, for one, can't shake the realization today that when Flight 93 plowed into an empty field
5:30
in Shanksville, Pennsylvania at 10 minutes after two, two minutes after 10 on that day
5:36
it is highly likely that it was making its way towards the US Capitol
5:40
So Donald Trump's supporters, 21 years later, succeeded where the terrorists failed
5:50
and launched an effective attack upon the US Capitol. I spoke to Francis Fukuyama earlier this week
5:59
for today's episode of Full Disclosure. Um, and one of the greatest thinkers of the last 50 years
6:06
Here he is on a theme that I think is very relevant to what we've been talking about all day
6:11
The idea that a society's health is dependent upon the amount of trust in a society
6:16
America has become a case study. Very low trust yeah Subsequently No that a really it kind of a sad story because at the time I wrote Trust most people thought that America was a relatively high society
6:30
There's a long history to that. Alexis de Tocqueville's description of America is full of associations because Americans
6:38
could work together very readily. You know, I think that was the dominant view of American society
6:45
But the mid-1990s was also the moment when polarization really began to set in, and this
6:51
poisonous idea, you know, that you've got a deep state that's working against your interest
6:57
at the other side, you know, are basically enemies that need to be countered rather than
7:02
you know, conciliated in some way. And there's not much sign of us coming out of that any time soon on either side of the Atlantic
7:12
Unfortunately, no. the midterms are just around the corner, and a lot of people are very, very fearful about
7:17
what could be coming next. Yeah. I'm not, actually. I actually think we're going to do okay in the midterms, but, you know, we'll see
7:26
And it won't prompt any of the sort of apocalyptic scenarios that some Trump critics
7:33
have suggested. Yeah, I think he's going to do everything he can to manipulate the election, but in
7:39
the end I don't think he's going to be able to. However, it's going to free him afterwards if he does have a democratic Congress to try to change the subject by doing a lot of crazy things
7:52
As I said, it's never dull human history, but some periods are less dull than others
7:58
He is one of the cleverest people I've ever met. And I've met a lot of people, including Sheila Fogarty
8:02
I've met Sheila, I've met Keith as well. I've met some really, really clever people
8:06
He's right up there, probably in the top two. So do check out this week's episode of Full Disclosure
8:11
if you missed any of today's show you can listen back on the global player app or the lbc app stay
8:16
up to date with all the latest news you can listen to a range of podcasts including this week's full
8:20
disclosure with one of the cleverest people i've ever met i've got a funny feeling he didn't say
8:24
the same thing when he walked out of that studio but you never know he did when i met him download
8:29
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