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James O’Brien and LBC’s political editor Natasha Clark analyse PMQs as Keir Starmer went head to head with Kemi Badenoch.
Listen to the full show on Global Player: https://app.af.globalplayer.com/Br0x/LBCYouTubeListenLive
'It was a pretty punchy approach by Badenoch'
'I'm not sure how well it will go down'
'Hasn't Farage already beaten her to these votes?'
'They're always fundraising for something...'
'In a terminally online world, it doesn't matter.' - 'I think it does'
'This is a very divisive issue'
'I don't think the government have been good enough on the grooming gangs issue'
'I thought you said she was getting better?'
'I want to know what an inquiry will achieve?'
'I'm very cynical about public inquiries...'
'It's going to be a bloodbath'
'It's hard to see anyone having Tory fire in their belly'
'The public aren't ready to forgive them'
'It's going to be a really poor night for Badenoch'
#jamesobrien #natashaclark #lbc #pmqs
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0:00
I don't think anyone expected her to go in on that, least of all the man who was knighted largely for his efforts in prosecuting grooming gangs
0:05
But to be topical, there were six men jailed yesterday. Did you know this? Six members of a grooming gang, a depraved grooming gang, no, yes, were jailed yesterday in Liverpool after years between 2016 and 2018 of preying on underage girls
0:20
I'm going to read out their names and leave you to wonder why you weren't aware of this story
0:24
or why Kemi Bader not made no mention of it at all in a PMQ where she dedicated all six questions
0:30
to the scourge of grooming gangs. Their names are Jack Poulsen, Richard Haslam, Daniel Flatters, James Fitzgerald, Corey Barrett and Elliot Turner
0:39
all of whom convicted variously of crimes against girls' children under the age of 16
0:46
including rape, sexual activity and other heinous crimes. I'll leave you to wonder why that's not all over your newspapers
0:55
or indeed why Kemi Bader-Knox didn't raise it today. But what she did raise, Natasha, was several locales
1:04
Yeah, and Nadia Whittem, the MP who you heard just after Kemi Bader-Knox and Keir Starmer, the Labour MP
1:11
took her chance to accuse Kemi Bader-Knox of exploiting victims. It's a pretty punchy approach to go with
1:19
You know what? Actually, I thought this was sort of the Kemi Badenot that we might see more of when she was elected leader
1:24
You know, it's incredibly divisive to use this as a way in to saying, well, actually, the local elections are tomorrow
1:32
Who do you trust to run your local council? Her quote was something like, you know, chaos and cover-ups under Labour
1:39
Like, that's a pretty bold, punchy statement to make from the leader of the opposition
1:45
and I'm not sure how well it will go down. But obviously she ticked a lot of local authorities off in her list
1:51
when she mentioned them all, of which most of them, I think, Kent she talked about, she talked about a few other names on that list
1:58
that have got elections coming up in the next 24 hours. And, of course, three years as Women Inequalities Minister
2:06
and 14 years in power and nothing done on any of these fronts
2:11
while, to listen to Nazir Afzal, who was the chief prosecutor in the North West
2:15
Keir Starmer's track record in this field is pretty close to exemplary
2:19
But that doesn't matter online. So a lot of people have accused Kemi Beidynok of being terminally online
2:24
We know, for example, that Elon Musk has intervened on the grooming gangs issue
2:30
although I doubt he'll have anything to say about the case in Liverpool yesterday
2:34
that I've just referenced. I'll leave you to wonder why. The idea that this does matter in the terminally online world
2:41
where people like Stephen Yaxley-Lennon or Tommy Robinson actively get convicted of frustrating attempts to prosecute these people
2:50
but cast themselves as somehow champions of the victims. It plays very well with a certain constituency
2:55
If she chasing their votes hasn Farage already beaten her to it Well yeah exactly And actually the Reform Party I think are the ones that are fundraising for their own version of an inquiry into grooming gangs
3:06
They're always fundraising for something. Exactly. But look, yeah, Keir Starmer has a very strong argument, as we've said before
3:13
Does it matter in the terminally online world? It doesn't matter. I think it does. I think he can say he's got a very, very good track record to point to
3:21
what I do think Kemi Bednock has a point is that I think the government are
3:25
dragging their feet a little bit on this one. They're not naming those five local inquiries
3:29
that they said that were going to get specific funding to look into these issues
3:34
And the Home Office have, I think, rode back a little bit on this
3:38
First, I thought they were going to announce a national inquiry into this
3:42
That was rode back. Then it was announced that they were going to
3:46
it was not going to be a full inquiry with full statutory powers to force people to attend
3:52
And we know that that's not going to be what a lot of victims want to see
3:57
And this is a very divisive issue. You speak to some victims who want to see it, some victims don't
4:01
Kemi Bejanok, however, is only talking about this because it is an issue that Elon Musk
4:06
and people on the right wing of the American media talked about six months ago
4:11
But I don't think that the government have been good enough at getting on the front foot on this narrative
4:15
and saying this is what we have done and this is what we are doing now for victims of grooming gangs
4:20
up and down the country, of course, of which there are many, and of course there were many, many examples
4:25
where people will say there are cover-ups. The government have a good record on this
4:29
Keir Starmer has a good record on it, and I don't think they've quite been quick enough to say what they have been doing
4:34
Yeah, I think that's fair. Glacial governmental movement or glacial whitehall notwithstanding
4:39
I'll read a few messages, as we always do, and picked at random. Bader Nock is simply disgusting, says Gary
4:44
Cammy is a disgrace, says Chris. She's utterly useless, isn't she, says Matt. Bedenock is showing what a disgusting and disingenuous individual she is
4:51
says Dave, using these victims of appalling abuse for political purposes in tomorrow's local election, so cynical and actually depraved
4:59
Andrew in Penzance. Cammie Bedenock is a contortionist who managed to put both her feet in her mouth
5:03
whilst announcing how poor the Tory inquiry into child abuse really was
5:07
I disagree with that, Andrew. The inquiry was pretty good. It's the failure to implement Baroness Jay's suggestions that leads the last government
5:14
and to a certain extent the current government open to criticism. Why does she ask the same question six times, says William
5:19
The longer this line of questioning goes on, the worse it's getting for Bedanot, writes Isaac
5:23
It sounds like grandstanding. She's not doing too badly, says Alice. Her party, writes James, was in charge for Chexnotes 14 years
5:31
Why didn't they launch any of the things that she's now calling her? For Andrew says Starmer looks weak here
5:37
He needs to take the reins. Bedanot doesn't seem strong, but he needs to shut her down
5:41
He doesn't need to explain himself on every issue. too much weeds and not enough wacker and finally Nassim says I thought you said she was getting
5:50
better. Look it's it is an awkward topic for Keir Starmer and there's no doubt about that I think he
5:56
has a very strong argument but this is an awkward topic for the Labour Party to deal with because of their record in local government because of what happened over many many years And I do think it makes them very uncomfortable because there are so many voters in so many of these areas that the Labour Party do rely on
6:11
And turning over the stone to look at what might have happened is an incredibly risky thing for any government to do, let alone this Labour government
6:20
And it is something where they do rely so much on so many of these communities' votes
6:24
and that is just something which I think a lot of people do not want to do. And you can see that, you know, there is division in the Labour Party on this
6:31
People like Paul Waugh, the MP for Rochdale, does want to see a full inquiry. Andy Burnham
6:35
You know, a very trustworthy guy in the north of England does want to see it
6:40
But some people, you know, very much feel, like you, that they haven't already done enough to implement it before
6:45
Oh, I'm not sure about that. I mean, yeah, I don't think they've done enough to implement the consequences of previous inquiries
6:50
I'm not opposed to another one. I'm not opposed to a national inquiry. The argument is why bother when you haven't already done it
6:54
Yeah, and also I want to know what it would achieve. So will it identify? I mean, in some cases, if people have engaged in a cover-up
7:01
and remember there was a case recently of two police officers who were actually convicted of the kind of crimes
7:06
that the grooming gangs have committed. And so the argument that we were told not to investigate
7:10
because of fears about racism or multiculturalism is going to be true up to a point
7:15
but it's not going to be the only reason. These girls were not trusted. They were not believed. They were treated in some cases as the problem
7:21
rather than the victim. And there's all sorts of stuff that could come out
7:26
none of which is going to fit any narrative 100% or completely. The problem is what the result would be
7:34
Who is going to get publicly shamed or prosecuted or named? You could spend millions and millions of pounds on an inquiry
7:40
I'm very cynical about public inquiries. And absolutely nothing happens at the end of it, except Keir Starmer gets to say, we did have one
7:46
Are you happy now? But in a way, he's not reaching for that easy lever
7:50
He could. And all of this could go away if he just said, oh, I'll have a national inquiry
7:54
There's 20 million quid. Let's have another national inquiry. And then this line of, well, you heard what my text is saying, is closed down immediately for Cammie Bader-Not
8:04
It makes our, oh, hang on, let me read this from Lisa. She writes, well done to Bader-Not, usual LBC bias and racism
8:11
So I'm just happy to get that on board for balance reasons
8:16
Like I say, it is an issue and a topic that so many people do feel very, very strongly and passionate about
8:20
I don't know if it's worth batting around as a political football at Prime Minister's questions in the way that Kemi Bednock has done it
8:26
I do think it's, you know, I've just got a text from a Conservative spokesperson just in now, you know, saying the Home Office promised this rapid review of rape gangs would report in three months
8:36
They haven't done so. Why is there a delay? And those are important questions which are worth holding the government's feet to the fire on
8:42
But, you know, saying that voting Labour is going to be a choice for cover-ups of grooming gang scandals is, I think, not a very nice message to be sending
8:51
Well, it's very popular online. And no doubt Elon Musk will be expressing his approval shortly if he's not a little bit busy
8:58
Isn he busy sorting out his own company which is tanking Other events It makes our job a bit harder The same question six times It a little bit harder to provide sparkling ysis
9:09
Sometimes I think they really get into the detail, though. You're punching a bruise
9:14
Yes, exactly. On a good day. Yes. The problem is, I think, with Keir Starmer, you weren't really punching a bruise
9:18
He was quite comfortable, I think, in answering those questions. Yes, I think this is a very awkward subject for Labour
9:23
but Keir Starmer has his own very, very personal success story. and he's able to say, look, what did you do about it
9:30
They sat on a shelf. We're doing so much more than they've ever did. And I spent five years prosecuting them
9:37
I asked for a review. I changed our entire approach. She stayed silent. And he is absolutely right
9:41
And Dave makes a point here, which hadn't really occurred to me before
9:46
He says, sorry, I don't buy any of this. If there was a local cover-up in Labour-controlled areas
9:51
surely the Tories would have jumped all over it for political gain. And indeed, if it was happening in the relevant periods
9:58
then the government itself would have been conservative. Exactly. It's just a mess, isn't it
10:03
Whichever way you come at it, it's hard not to think that the victims are at the very back of the queue of concern
10:08
Yeah, which is why I think the government at the time, the conservative government, wasn't interested in uncovering it
10:12
because it would have happened probably under their watch. And whether they can say, oh, it's a Labour council that did it
10:19
they'll go, well, why didn't national government do anything to stop this? So everybody is implicated in this
10:24
It's a bit like the post office scandal. Just to clarify, although it was in Liverpool Crown Court
10:29
that other grooming gangs, six members of it were jailed yesterday, the offences themselves took place largely in Bolton
10:38
It was a few Liverpudlians a little bit unhappy with my reporting of that
10:44
The ringleader was jailed yesterday. There's more than six involved. The ringleader was jailed yesterday for 15 years
10:49
and there were other defendants as well convicted. Two, and having read out all their names
10:56
I'll leave you to wonder why that's not getting the kind of media coverage that one would expect correctly all grooming gang crimes
11:02
to receive in the UK media. That's it then, I think, for this week
11:08
That's it. And he's right. We are going to find out what people think about..
11:11
I don't say... I get scared now because I always forget what the rules of Perder are, so I tend not to say anything
11:17
But it is... I mean, so just to be clear, that there are elections tomorrow
11:21
They're largely in areas where the Conservatives are currently in control. Yeah, and I spoke to someone earlier who thinks that the Tories are going to do that
11:28
I think it was a Tory that I spoke to, and they said it's going to be a bloodbath for us. We are going to lose, I think it's something like 900 seats up
11:35
and they think they're going to lose 500 of them. Because it's hard to imagine anyone marching out of their house tomorrow morning
11:41
with sort of Tory fire in their belly at the moment. Well, who's ready to forgive the Conservatives after 14 years of government
11:48
just after nine months of seeing Labour in power? They are not ready. The public are not ready to forgive them
11:53
And all of those votes are going to go to reform. You know, the Conservatives did really well when these councils were last contested in, I think, 2021
12:01
So, yeah, it's going to be a really poor night for Kemi Bader-Knox
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