Up next in 10
Trump has cancelled strikes against Iran amid the promise of a new deal over the Strait of Hormuz.
In a new post on social media, the president wrote that he would "cancel the attack, subject to being able to rapidly make a DEAL" - an agreement which would include the immediate opening of the Strait of Hormuz and an end to "Iran's nuclear threat".
The announcement came amid speculation in Washington over plans for further intensive strikes on Iran over the weekend.
As the US President's statement, which hasn't come for the first time, makes the rounds, Lewis Goodall speaks to Benjamins Zand, a British-Iranian filmmaker who has just completed his documentary, 'On the Ground in Iran'.
Listen to the full show on the all-new LBC App: https://app.af.lbc.co.uk/btnc/thenewlbcapp
#lewisgoodall #donaldtrump #netanyahu #iran #irgc #worldnews #lbc
LBC is the home of live debate around news and current affairs in the UK.
Join in the conversation and listen at https://www.lbc.co.uk/
Sign up to LBC's weekly newsletter here: https://l-bc.co/signup
Show More Show Less View Video Transcript
0:00
May have escaped your attention, but the president has had something new to say
0:04
or indeed something old to say, about the situation, the war in Iran
0:08
He oscillates, he goes back and forth. It is a rollercoaster of politics, constantly suggesting he is about to bomb the S asterisk, asterisk, asterisk, asterisk out of them
0:19
Back to now, and this is all in the space of a week, back to now, actually
0:23
he's been asked by Middle East Gulf Allies to step away, and that's what he's done
0:27
And it's easy to forget now that at the start of this conflict, there was hope from many Iranians in this country and indeed in Iran itself that it might mark an end to the regime which has been in place since 1979 and the fall of the Shah
0:41
Those hopes now seem very distant. Ben Zand is an award-winning British-Iranian filmmaker, journalist, founder of Zandland Studios, who's been making a documentary about precisely those hopes and perhaps as well why it didn't happen
0:53
We've been on ITV a week today. Ben, thanks so much for coming in. Tell us about your documentary
0:58
Yeah, so it's a film. We actually started making it at the point just after the initial protests in January
1:03
The idea at that point was we wanted to capture the reality of what had happened
1:08
There was kind of range of numbers floating. What was clear was that it was an unprecedented level
1:12
of killings on the ground. So we started working with a team on the ground in Iran
1:17
filming kind of each day. And during the process of that, obviously, the world changed
1:22
Kind of war came. And the film captures that sense of kind of initial extreme hope, kind of a very strange happiness
1:31
You know, the kind of thing that struck me as a guy who's kind of British Iranian is this sense of people actively wanting their homeland to be bombed
1:37
You know, how do you get to that point where you feel like, you know, there's no other option? So it kind of marks that shift told by Iranians who ultimately, you know, the people who work with us on this can be executed
1:48
They could be thrown in jail for doing this. So they're doing extreme risk
1:51
and it shows you that trajectory from hope and that strange relationship they had
1:59
with the likes of Trump and Netanyahu to now a complete and utter despair of realising
2:04
that regime change cannot come from the skies. It was one of the most arresting moments
2:09
of the early part of the war, wasn't it? Trump announcing it was happening
2:13
after much speculation that it might, it might not. As ever with Trump, you never quite know where you are
2:17
And he's saying, you know, imploring Iranians to take to the streets and saying this is perhaps a once in a generation
2:24
once in a lifetime opportunity. Do you think that that was always just sort of far-fetched or a misunderstanding just how
2:30
kind of deeply embedded the regime is and the tools of fear that they can deploy
2:35
Or was there a moment, do you think, that it might have happened? I think it was always far-fetched
2:40
I think there was extreme kind of willingness for it to happen from the Iranian people
2:45
I think these are people who, you know, this protest is one of, I mean, this kind of incident is one of many
2:50
You know, there's been well-documented kind of attacks on women's rights, on kind of freedom of expression
2:56
I think the kind of protests in January felt so kind of visceral
3:00
So many people felt like they lost people. And the regime really felt like it was frail. And it was the first time, you know, in many of the people's eyes that kind of America had
3:08
or someone had answered that call to try and topple the regime As far as unlikely as that was I think the film kind of sets out as well to answer that question because I think quite often the story has been kind of painted in one of two ways You either have kind of a hawkish group of Iranians who kind of are pro pro
3:25
they want war at any costs, or you have an Islamic Republic that's kind of anti-imperialistic
3:29
and it's standing up against the kind of, you know, the big powers of America and Israel
3:33
I think the reality on the ground is completely different to that. It's very nuanced
3:37
One woman in the film says, you know, the whole experience has been like living in a house with the murderer of your child whilst the wolves are waiting outside
3:44
And I think that sense of like, there is no good end point for the Iranian people from this
3:50
The government, you know, there was executions just this week on Tuesday in Isfahan for people who were involved in the protests
3:56
At the same time, Trump and Netanyahu are not going to be your saviors. So the film looks at like also now what is actually going to happen from this
4:04
But yeah, there was, you know, at the moment you see it within the film as well, that point at which Khomeini was killed and the kind of bait was attacked his home
4:12
There was complete and utter jubilation. And that is, again, yes, it was far-fetched
4:17
I think it was going to happen. At the same time, there was never a point the Supreme Leader was literally killed
4:21
And that sense that maybe regime change could come from this. I think people who understood Iran for years would have said from the get-go
4:28
this is a deeply entrenched regime. That isn't, you know, you can't cut the head off the serpent and the regime collapses
4:33
it's got multiple bastions of power and multiple people on the payroll
4:39
that's very difficult to supplant. What you just put it there, one of the things the film wants to ask
4:45
is what's going to happen now? What do you think will happen now? Because we seem to be
4:49
at a geopolitical level, we seem to be locked in this death dance
4:53
where everything changes and then nothing changes at all and we oscillate between ceasefire
4:59
which isn't quite a ceasefire, and a war, which isn't quite a war. But on the ground, it feels from the outside, and you tell me you're far better connected to it
5:07
you've heard all these voices. It feels as if through this misuse of American power
5:12
that if anything, Trump seems to have cemented the regime in place. Is that how it feels on the ground from what you can tell
5:17
Yeah, a big question for the film was kind of what has changed, what happens next from the perspectives of those people
5:22
And ultimately, I think the reality is, yes, the regime is now hardened
5:27
The exact opposite thing has happened. And a big part of that is the Strait of Hormuz and that sense of kind of they have an ability, as we've seen, to kind of put a stranglehold on the kind of world economy
5:37
But then there's a kind of strange kind of cultural shift that's happened inside the country
5:41
You know, you hear from a woman in the film who talks about the fact that now nobody wears hijabs in Iran
5:47
So there's that, you know, and she talks about the fact, you know, just a few weeks ago, she saw a woman walking down the street in a crop top with no hijab on
5:54
So there's a sense of like the government is also in survival mode
5:58
They're kind of prioritizing. At the same time, kind of executions and arrests are going up
6:04
They've actually stopped the kind of moral... So that's so interesting. So although on a sort of geopolitical level, the regime is strengthened
6:09
its ability to actually influence day-to-day behavior in a sort of theocratic, socially conservative way in Iran
6:15
is weaker than it was, at least for the time being. I think both its ability and its willingness at this point, because I think there's been..
6:21
I think they've lost that kind of cultural debate within Iran. And I think they realized each time there mass protests for so long around the kind of hijab So I think that one aspect of Iranian society that has actually changed I mean whether that a positive is an entirely other question Many of the Iranians talk about the fact that they actually regressed 30 years
6:39
They've now got a much younger Khomeini, much tabah. You know, the sun is now just, he is now younger
6:44
and the government is more entrenched. So I don't think there's many people who are extremely positive about the future
6:50
That said, you know, I've had a bunch of people say to me, you know, why, you know, quite annoyingly
6:55
So why aren't the Iranians just overthrowing the government? The kind of strong Iranians should have come forward, etc
6:59
I mean, on the one hand, that is an extremely difficult thing to do for any population
7:03
Yeah, easy to say. At the same time, there's still kind of bombings and there's still airstrokes
7:08
It's very difficult to kind of overthrow a government whilst you're being bombarded. And I think that's a part of it, that the dust has not fully settled yet from the war
7:17
So it's quite difficult to know what the government is going to do. at these recent kind of there was a hanging in on tuesday in esfahan and there was protests there
7:24
despite all of the risks there's filmmakers talking to us despite all of the risks there's still
7:28
clearly people willing to try and put their kind of head above the parapet despite the risks but
7:33
i'd say it's extremely difficult and yeah for me right now you can't necessarily see a path where
7:39
they will kind of not be in government and and so many of the just in and again it's easy to kind of
7:44
get lost or um to focus only on the geopolitics and the kind of grand strategy and the great game
7:49
and all that. But, you know, ultimately, the year started with one of the reasons
7:54
those protests were so visceral is because the economic situation in Iran was appalling
7:59
Inflation was sky high. People were struggling to make ends meet. And that's still there
8:03
In fact, it's worse. And, of course, as you say, it's still got the day-to-day possibility
8:07
of being bombed to bits by an American missile or drone or whatever it is. It must be..
8:12
It's sort of hard to even conceive. You must have had a far better insight into it having watched all of this footage
8:16
but it's hard to even conceive the realities of day-to-day life for normal Iranians right now
8:20
Exactly. I think that would point to continual unrest. You know, a big part of the reason this began in the first place
8:25
is because the Bazaaris started protesting. You know, these guys are people who are typically conservative
8:29
They're usually a kind of bit of a base for the government. And because the economic situation got so bad
8:34
and there was a kind of, you know, the currency became devalued to such an extent, people came out into the streets
8:39
So there is a sense of if, you know, the economic scenario is so bad
8:43
people have a basic expectation of what they need to survive. you know either something has to change i think that that's the reality change has come the iran
8:52
is now not the country it once was um and you know the people have gone through a lot a lot you know
8:58
you speak to multiple people in the film who have lost family members they talk about being in like
9:01
places like kefra zak morgue where they're seeing just bodies upon bodies so there's scars now that
9:07
did not previously exist so i think there is a sense that people will still want change i think
9:12
I think the question is what is the next inflection point, and that's hard to predict. How, I know this will not have been something
9:19
you've necessarily sort of imputed into the film, but as a British Iranian yourself
9:23
how have you found these last few months? I think it's unbelievably confusing
9:28
I think, like, and a kind of very mixed range of emotions because I think from the beginning of all this
9:33
you know, I'm, you know, hopefully not, I'm not an ideologue in the sense of, like
9:38
it was kind of obvious that the world is not going to be saved by Donald Trump and Benjamin Netanyahu deciding that they want to mass bomb Iran And their kind of incentives probably aren that they want Iran to be a beautiful prosperous place
9:52
But at the same time, this is a country that has a brutally repressive kind of Islamic theocracy
9:59
that has been well documented to kind of kill people without due process, repress women's rights
10:08
repress the rights of LGBTQ members. So I think, obviously, there is a bias within me that would like the regime to change
10:15
I can't deny that. That said, that's not what the focus of the film is
10:21
But for me, it's very mixed emotions because I think it felt very..
10:26
At the start of this, I was thinking, where could this possibly go? What could the end point possibly be
10:30
And it was hard to not see what has now happened as the only logical conclusion
10:34
because, in reality, they are deeply entrenched. You know, America was never going to put boots on the ground
10:40
There was never going to be a sense that there was going to be kind of an occupation within Iran as there shouldn't be
10:46
So the idea was always based, the Iranian people needed to overthrow their own government at great cost
10:51
and it just felt like that was just a stretch too far. Is there a particular personal voice that has stood out to you in this
10:56
that you've sort of gone to that you could share with us? I think, you know, there's a lady in the film called Yazaman
11:04
Everyone's anonymous in the film, but, you know, she's kind of lost her son
11:08
and she tells the story of just that kind of sense of pain of she's kind of out in the protests
11:14
and she's only gone there to try and support her son. She's a young guy, wants to be a rapper
11:18
wants to have the freedoms to do what he wants to do, as many people do. And she kind of gets separated from him
11:25
on one of the days of the protests and she's kind of searching for him frantically
11:30
She gets a phone call from somebody saying that she needs to go to a location, she doesn't know who it is
11:35
And as she gets to this site, she basically finds her son
11:39
and he's being shot in the heart by the Islamic public, kind of dies on site
11:46
His body then gets transferred to a morgue and she kind of gets separated from it
11:51
which needs to go and identify it. And while she's there, she's seeing kind of, from her words
11:55
she's seeing basically ice cream trucks full of bodies come into the morgue to try and, you know
12:00
such an extent of people that they don't have the capacity to kind of hold them
12:04
Bodies stacked upon bodies. needs to go in there to try and identify her son. And she sees multiple other people who are kind of trying to then identify their loved ones
12:12
People are worried their body's going to go missing because the government might not want to
12:15
you know, expose the true reality of the level of the figures of death toll
12:21
So it's just that sense of complete disarray, kind of not trusting anybody
12:26
You know, you're not trusting the people. And a lot of these people did not want war, you know, and they don't trust the kind of foreign powers
12:32
but they also are living in a country that they don't feel safe
12:37
and they're worried to go outside. They can't even take their children, the kind of loved ones
12:41
to the hospital to be fixed. So I think it's just a complete sense of chaos
12:44
that falls upon these people. Remind us the name of the film and when we can watch it, Ben
12:50
It's called Inside Iran, War and Revolution. It'll be on ITV next Sunday in the UK
12:56
and on the Zanlan YouTube internationally. Ben Zan there, award-winning British Iranian filmmaker
13:00
founder of Zanlan Studios
#news