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The Cloud Show with Magnus Mårtensson ft. Christian Weyer - Ep. 26
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Aug 6, 2025
Join this live session with Magnus Mårtensson ft. Christian Weyer on a new episode of The Cloud Show with Magnus Mårtensson on May 08, 2024 at 01:05 PM (EST). The show is about cloud leadership and all the important questions relating to cloud projects. Certainly, many matters when a company is going to and wants to be successful in the cloud, are about technology. However, there are many additional matters, adjacent to technology, that we also need to tend to regarding business strategy, human resources, organizational change, planning for a technical cloud approach, and many more questions. These conversations are critical for a healthy cloud and for a swift and accurate cloud approach. GUEST SPEAKER Christian Weyer having experience more than 25 years, has been looking at new and emerging technologies. His goal is always to identify techs that can change matters for software developers significantly - and ideally techs that can positively change things for end users. 📺 CSharp TV - Dev Streaming Destination http://csharp.tv 🌎 C# Corner - Community of Software and Data Developers https://www.c-sharpcorner.com #CSharpTV #csharpcorner #TheCloudShow #CSharp #Interview
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hello everyone and welcome back to the
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hello everyone and welcome back to the
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hello everyone and welcome back to the cloud show with another episode and
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cloud show with another episode and
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cloud show with another episode and another great topic this is a topic that
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another great topic this is a topic that
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another great topic this is a topic that is top of mind for a lot of people right
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is top of mind for a lot of people right
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is top of mind for a lot of people right now it's about Ai and it's about Lang
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now it's about Ai and it's about Lang
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now it's about Ai and it's about Lang large language models and small ones by
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large language models and small ones by
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large language models and small ones by the way because we're going to talk
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the way because we're going to talk
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the way because we're going to talk about how to relate to am I going to use
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about how to relate to am I going to use
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about how to relate to am I going to use a large language model or do I only need
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a large language model or do I only need
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a large language model or do I only need a small one I don't know but I know who
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a small one I don't know but I know who
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a small one I don't know but I know who does that's Christian and he's on the
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does that's Christian and he's on the
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does that's Christian and he's on the cloud show
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cloud show
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cloud show [Music]
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tonight hello Christian my friend hey
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tonight hello Christian my friend hey
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tonight hello Christian my friend hey magos what a nice picture of you in the
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magos what a nice picture of you in the
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magos what a nice picture of you in the intro I know right it's my show but you
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intro I know right it's my show but you
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intro I know right it's my show but you you sir you are the star so let's start
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you sir you are the star so let's start
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you sir you are the star so let's start there let's start with you let's start
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there let's start with you let's start
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there let's start with you let's start by say letting you tell the audience who
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by say letting you tell the audience who
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by say letting you tell the audience who is
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is
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is Christian well well so first thank you
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Christian well well so first thank you
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Christian well well so first thank you again for inviting me and for having me
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again for inviting me and for having me
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again for inviting me and for having me it has been a long time that we try to
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it has been a long time that we try to
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it has been a long time that we try to set this up you
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set this up you
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set this up you know for months I guess schedules
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know for months I guess schedules
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know for months I guess schedules schedules schedules schedules so I'm
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schedules schedules schedules so I'm
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schedules schedules schedules so I'm Christian from think tecture I am from
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Christian from think tecture I am from
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Christian from think tecture I am from Germany obviously because I was very
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Germany obviously because I was very
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Germany obviously because I was very very early uh before the show yes you
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very early uh before the show yes you
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very early uh before the show yes you know that you were way on time that's
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know that you were way on time that's
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know that you were way on time that's normal time for German
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normal time for German
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normal time for German people um I have been in the business uh
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people um I have been in the business uh
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people um I have been in the business uh of software technology and software
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of software technology and software
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of software technology and software Consulting since 199 6 and I have always
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Consulting since 199 6 and I have always
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Consulting since 199 6 and I have always been a distributed applications and
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been a distributed applications and
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been a distributed applications and distributed systems guy y I have been
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distributed systems guy y I have been
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distributed systems guy y I have been working with Azure uh right away after
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working with Azure uh right away after
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working with Azure uh right away after um the conference in
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um the conference in
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um the conference in 2008 um where they were announcing Azure
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2008 um where they were announcing Azure
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2008 um where they were announcing Azure showing it and announcing it and windows
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showing it and announcing it and windows
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showing it and announcing it and windows Azure Windows Azure and we could start
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Azure Windows Azure and we could start
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Azure Windows Azure and we could start playing with it yeah so I've always had
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playing with it yeah so I've always had
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playing with it yeah so I've always had my head in the cloud but always um tried
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my head in the cloud but always um tried
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my head in the cloud but always um tried to look at the endtoend aspects of
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to look at the endtoend aspects of
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to look at the endtoend aspects of software Solutions so I'm looking into
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software Solutions so I'm looking into
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software Solutions so I'm looking into client stuff I'm looking into server
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client stuff I'm looking into server
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client stuff I'm looking into server stuff I'm looking into on Prem stuff I'm
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stuff I'm looking into on Prem stuff I'm
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stuff I'm looking into on Prem stuff I'm looking into the cloud I am having a
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looking into the cloud I am having a
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looking into the cloud I am having a look at security and so on and so forth
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look at security and so on and so forth
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look at security and so on and so forth and that brings me to yeah some some
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and that brings me to yeah some some
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and that brings me to yeah some some great insights um on the technology side
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great insights um on the technology side
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great insights um on the technology side because I call myself uh a technology
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because I call myself uh a technology
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because I call myself uh a technology Catalyst which means I'm always happy
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Catalyst which means I'm always happy
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Catalyst which means I'm always happy and I have the honor of looking into new
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and I have the honor of looking into new
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and I have the honor of looking into new stuff and newer stuff and even new stuff
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stuff and newer stuff and even new stuff
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stuff and newer stuff and even new stuff than the new stuff and try to find out
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than the new stuff and try to find out
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than the new stuff and try to find out what makes sense what doesn't make sense
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what makes sense what doesn't make sense
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what makes sense what doesn't make sense what could be useful for one or the
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what could be useful for one or the
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what could be useful for one or the other of our customers because our
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other of our customers because our
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other of our customers because our customers are always software developers
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customers are always software developers
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customers are always software developers on the other end so we are working with
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on the other end so we are working with
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on the other end so we are working with Enterprise developers and we are working
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Enterprise developers and we are working
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Enterprise developers and we are working with isv developers okay brilliant so
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with isv developers okay brilliant so
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with isv developers okay brilliant so let's just like zoom in on our topic as
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let's just like zoom in on our topic as
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let's just like zoom in on our topic as we were saying before the show here we
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we were saying before the show here we
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we were saying before the show here we want to talk about large and small
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want to talk about large and small
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want to talk about large and small language models I love that so recently
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language models I love that so recently
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language models I love that so recently the world had this AI moment AI for
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the world had this AI moment AI for
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the world had this AI moment AI for everything everything has to have ai and
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everything everything has to have ai and
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everything everything has to have ai and everything has to have a co-pilot but if
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everything has to have a co-pilot but if
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everything has to have a co-pilot but if we're talking oh yeah co-pilot yeah
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we're talking oh yeah co-pilot yeah
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we're talking oh yeah co-pilot yeah we're talking about language models now
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we're talking about language models now
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we're talking about language models now um your customers are trying to make
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um your customers are trying to make
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um your customers are trying to make sense of what to do with these language
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sense of what to do with these language
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sense of what to do with these language models am I understanding that correctly
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models am I understanding that correctly
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models am I understanding that correctly yeah so
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yeah so
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yeah so um what our customers are always looking
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um what our customers are always looking
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um what our customers are always looking for is some some kind of a technology or
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for is some some kind of a technology or
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for is some some kind of a technology or a set of technologies that sets them
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a set of technologies that sets them
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a set of technologies that sets them apart from the others yeah because they
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apart from the others yeah because they
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apart from the others yeah because they are developing software and on the other
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are developing software and on the other
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are developing software and on the other side yes and on the other side enables
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side yes and on the other side enables
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side yes and on the other side enables their end customers like you and me
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their end customers like you and me
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their end customers like you and me using certain products or Services uh to
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using certain products or Services uh to
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using certain products or Services uh to have a better user experience and to
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have a better user experience and to
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have a better user experience and to enable new use cases and of course we
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enable new use cases and of course we
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enable new use cases and of course we had this moment uh something around 2010
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had this moment uh something around 2010
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had this moment uh something around 2010 11-ish when we were moving away from
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11-ish when we were moving away from
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11-ish when we were moving away from Pure desktop applications yeah uh to um
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Pure desktop applications yeah uh to um
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Pure desktop applications yeah uh to um mobile and web and desktop crossplatform
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mobile and web and desktop crossplatform
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mobile and web and desktop crossplatform as Solutions right where we had the
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as Solutions right where we had the
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as Solutions right where we had the Advent of single page applications doing
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Advent of single page applications doing
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Advent of single page applications doing web based apps with react and with
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web based apps with react and with
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web based apps with react and with angular and so on and so forth um so
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angular and so on and so forth um so
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angular and so on and so forth um so that was one of those moments where the
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that was one of those moments where the
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that was one of those moments where the isvs and the Enterprise developers had
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isvs and the Enterprise developers had
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isvs and the Enterprise developers had the AHA
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the AHA
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the AHA moment of course they also had that aha
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moment of course they also had that aha
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moment of course they also had that aha moment when they saw what the the cloud
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moment when they saw what the the cloud
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moment when they saw what the the cloud could do of course yes of course like
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could do of course yes of course like
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could do of course yes of course like the idea of serverless isn't that just
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the idea of serverless isn't that just
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the idea of serverless isn't that just like it's brilliant I'm still working
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like it's brilliant I'm still working
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like it's brilliant I'm still working with with uh I'm working with a lot of
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with with uh I'm working with a lot of
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with with uh I'm working with a lot of public sector right now and they have
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public sector right now and they have
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public sector right now and they have known what it is but they have not been
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known what it is but they have not been
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known what it is but they have not been allowed to like use it at all but now
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allowed to like use it at all but now
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allowed to like use it at all but now and so they're coming into this now like
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and so they're coming into this now like
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and so they're coming into this now like I don't know 10 10 plus years into the
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I don't know 10 10 plus years into the
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I don't know 10 10 plus years into the game right yeah exactly it's interesting
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game right yeah exactly it's interesting
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game right yeah exactly it's interesting so we had several of those moments right
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so we had several of those moments right
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so we had several of those moments right yeah but in the past let's say I don't
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yeah but in the past let's say I don't
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yeah but in the past let's say I don't know 10 years 12 years maybe even 14
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know 10 years 12 years maybe even 14
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know 10 years 12 years maybe even 14 years there hasn't been a major thing
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years there hasn't been a major thing
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years there hasn't been a major thing well there was
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well there was
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well there was blockchain block what block I don't know
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blockchain block what block I don't know
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blockchain block what block I don't know yeah so there was one or the other
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yeah so there was one or the other
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yeah so there was one or the other technology that we thought could be a
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technology that we thought could be a
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technology that we thought could be a major shift but then it was a major pain
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major shift but then it was a major pain
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major shift but then it was a major pain so in the past 10 to 12 to 14 years we
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so in the past 10 to 12 to 14 years we
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so in the past 10 to 12 to 14 years we just had to go on with the things we had
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just had to go on with the things we had
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just had to go on with the things we had but then November 2022 we had that very
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but then November 2022 we had that very
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but then November 2022 we had that very prominent chbt moment and after that
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prominent chbt moment and after that
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prominent chbt moment and after that especially open AI as a company uh was
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especially open AI as a company uh was
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especially open AI as a company uh was pleasing us with releasing access to not
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pleasing us with releasing access to not
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pleasing us with releasing access to not just that web application which we could
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just that web application which we could
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just that web application which we could use to chat but with the models behind
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use to chat but with the models behind
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use to chat but with the models behind that and those are the large language
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that and those are the large language
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that and those are the large language models they are very very large because
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models they are very very large because
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models they are very very large because they have been trained on a very very
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they have been trained on a very very
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they have been trained on a very very large data set data sets and of course
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large data set data sets and of course
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large data set data sets and of course they are very very large neural networks
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they are very very large neural networks
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they are very very large neural networks in order to provide us power that they
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in order to provide us power that they
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in order to provide us power that they actually can provide us so so if I sit
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actually can provide us so so if I sit
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actually can provide us so so if I sit down with a with a browser and and I I
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down with a with a browser and and I I
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down with a with a browser and and I I open up U chat GTP there and I type
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open up U chat GTP there and I type
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open up U chat GTP there and I type things and I I talk to it you know it
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things and I I talk to it you know it
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things and I I talk to it you know it appears as if I'm talking to it h then
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appears as if I'm talking to it h then
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appears as if I'm talking to it h then then I'm talking to a very very very
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then I'm talking to a very very very
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then I'm talking to a very very very large language model the largest ones
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large language model the largest ones
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large language model the largest ones right yes so in the first instance you
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right yes so in the first instance you
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right yes so in the first instance you are talking to a a very sophisticated
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are talking to a a very sophisticated
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are talking to a a very sophisticated web application yeah which does all the
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web application yeah which does all the
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web application yeah which does all the guy and the chat history and the state
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guy and the chat history and the state
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guy and the chat history and the state management and then in the background
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management and then in the background
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management and then in the background there is maybe one of the largest large
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there is maybe one of the largest large
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there is maybe one of the largest large language models in the world most likely
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language models in the world most likely
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language models in the world most likely gbt 3.5 turbo or gbt 4 or gb4 turo yeah
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gbt 3.5 turbo or gbt 4 or gb4 turo yeah
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gbt 3.5 turbo or gbt 4 or gb4 turo yeah all of them have very very interesting
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all of them have very very interesting
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all of them have very very interesting names that you can crazy names actually
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names that you can crazy names actually
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names that you can crazy names actually and they get better when we will be
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and they get better when we will be
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and they get better when we will be talking about the small language models
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talking about the small language models
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talking about the small language models yeah so tell us what so okay so you
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yeah so tell us what so okay so you
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yeah so tell us what so okay so you won't be using a large language model
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won't be using a large language model
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won't be using a large language model for everything you might need to use a
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for everything you might need to use a
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for everything you might need to use a smaller language model for some other
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smaller language model for some other
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smaller language model for some other scenarios why is that you could you
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scenarios why is that you could you
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scenarios why is that you could you could so
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could so
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could so um the large language models have been
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um the large language models have been
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um the large language models have been made prominent by let's call them not so
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made prominent by let's call them not so
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made prominent by let's call them not so open- Source companies okay there is
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open- Source companies okay there is
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open- Source companies okay there is open in the name of open AI but maybe
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open in the name of open AI but maybe
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open in the name of open AI but maybe they are not so open because they did
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they are not so open because they did
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they are not so open because they did not open the the data sets they did not
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not open the the data sets they did not
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not open the the data sets they did not open the code and so on and so forth uh
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open the code and so on and so forth uh
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open the code and so on and so forth uh which is fine because it's their
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which is fine because it's their
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which is fine because it's their business model I don't judge them but on
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business model I don't judge them but on
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business model I don't judge them but on the other side there has been a very
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the other side there has been a very
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the other side there has been a very very large open source Community which
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very large open source Community which
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very large open source Community which has always been very very active in the
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has always been very very active in the
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has always been very very active in the background and which was maybe somehow
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background and which was maybe somehow
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background and which was maybe somehow surprised by that gbt um moment but then
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surprised by that gbt um moment but then
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surprised by that gbt um moment but then suddenly they uh they stopped hiding and
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suddenly they uh they stopped hiding and
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suddenly they uh they stopped hiding and they came out of their caves and now we
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they came out of their caves and now we
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they came out of their caves and now we have a very very um diverse ecosystem
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have a very very um diverse ecosystem
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have a very very um diverse ecosystem and Community with large language models
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and Community with large language models
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and Community with large language models being hosted by the big ones large
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being hosted by the big ones large
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being hosted by the big ones large language models being hosted by an open
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language models being hosted by an open
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language models being hosted by an open source Community but also smaller models
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source Community but also smaller models
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source Community but also smaller models which are a trained on public data you
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which are a trained on public data you
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which are a trained on public data you can actually see the data sets which
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can actually see the data sets which
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can actually see the data sets which they have been trained on and uh see uh
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they have been trained on and uh see uh
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they have been trained on and uh see uh b b a b uh they they are much smaller in
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b b a b uh they they are much smaller in
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b b a b uh they they are much smaller in terms of the parameters of the neural
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terms of the parameters of the neural
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terms of the parameters of the neural network which means uh they are not as
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network which means uh they are not as
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network which means uh they are not as powerful as the large language models
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powerful as the large language models
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powerful as the large language models but they can be run in a much more
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but they can be run in a much more
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but they can be run in a much more economic way and they maybe can even be
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economic way and they maybe can even be
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economic way and they maybe can even be run on my system maybe run on my laptop
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run on my system maybe run on my laptop
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run on my system maybe run on my laptop maybe be run on the server of my
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maybe be run on the server of my
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maybe be run on the server of my customer or I actually here in that
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customer or I actually here in that
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customer or I actually here in that corner R I have a Raspberry Pi five
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corner R I have a Raspberry Pi five
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corner R I have a Raspberry Pi five running a small language
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running a small language
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running a small language model that's interesting because that
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model that's interesting because that
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model that's interesting because that that opens up to a whole other set of
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that opens up to a whole other set of
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that opens up to a whole other set of applications exactly and I tell you if
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applications exactly and I tell you if
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applications exactly and I tell you if you have been following the press a
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you have been following the press a
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you have been following the press a little bit uh maybe in mid of June there
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little bit uh maybe in mid of June there
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little bit uh maybe in mid of June there is the
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is the
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is the WWDC the worldwide developer conference
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WWDC the worldwide developer conference
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WWDC the worldwide developer conference from Apple and I think they will be
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from Apple and I think they will be
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from Apple and I think they will be finally launching a small language model
9:27
finally launching a small language model
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finally launching a small language model for iOS because it makes sense
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for iOS because it makes sense
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for iOS because it makes sense right that yeah what is a language model
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right that yeah what is a language model
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right that yeah what is a language model a language model is a program a service
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a language model is a program a service
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a language model is a program a service an application that understands natural
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an application that understands natural
9:41
an application that understands natural language yeah e either written or spoken
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language yeah e either written or spoken
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language yeah e either written or spoken yeah and that enables a bunch of new
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yeah and that enables a bunch of new
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yeah and that enables a bunch of new ideas of how we can work with software
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ideas of how we can work with software
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ideas of how we can work with software of how we can enable new use cases into
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of how we can enable new use cases into
9:55
of how we can enable new use cases into our existing or into our new software
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our existing or into our new software
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our existing or into our new software and maybe we don't want to be
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and maybe we don't want to be
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and maybe we don't want to be um um we don't want to
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um um we don't want to
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um um we don't want to be always have to talk to those servers
10:09
be always have to talk to those servers
10:09
be always have to talk to those servers and those Cloud systems those Clos Cloud
10:12
and those Cloud systems those Clos Cloud
10:12
and those Cloud systems those Clos Cloud systems but maybe we want to have some
10:14
systems but maybe we want to have some
10:14
systems but maybe we want to have some kind of a freedom a choice where we can
10:17
kind of a freedom a choice where we can
10:17
kind of a freedom a choice where we can pick and choose the right model either
10:21
pick and choose the right model either
10:21
pick and choose the right model either large or small and and and and the the
10:23
large or small and and and and the the
10:23
large or small and and and and the the data knowing what data it has been
10:26
data knowing what data it has been
10:27
data knowing what data it has been trained on is another valuable thing
10:30
trained on is another valuable thing
10:30
trained on is another valuable thing because if you if you have a large
10:32
because if you if you have a large
10:32
because if you if you have a large language model but you have no idea what
10:34
language model but you have no idea what
10:34
language model but you have no idea what data actually trained it or it was
10:37
data actually trained it or it was
10:37
data actually trained it or it was trained on what data you don't know what
10:39
trained on what data you don't know what
10:39
trained on what data you don't know what data that that is it can be data that is
10:42
data that that is it can be data that is
10:42
data that that is it can be data that is maybe um heavily biased against
10:45
maybe um heavily biased against
10:45
maybe um heavily biased against something it can be data that um doesn't
10:48
something it can be data that um doesn't
10:48
something it can be data that um doesn't know anything about the thing that is
10:49
know anything about the thing that is
10:49
know anything about the thing that is your business yeah how do you know you
10:51
your business yeah how do you know you
10:51
your business yeah how do you know you don't know yeah yeah yeah exactly and
10:56
don't know yeah yeah yeah exactly and
10:56
don't know yeah yeah yeah exactly and um for me and for the for the use cases
10:59
um for me and for the for the use cases
10:59
um for me and for the for the use cases it's actually not about the about the
11:02
it's actually not about the about the
11:02
it's actually not about the about the the world knowledge of those uh models
11:05
the world knowledge of those uh models
11:05
the world knowledge of those uh models but about the quality of understanding
11:07
but about the quality of understanding
11:08
but about the quality of understanding language and giving me
11:10
language and giving me
11:10
language and giving me back data that I can work with in my
11:14
back data that I can work with in my
11:14
back data that I can work with in my applications so there are several use
11:17
applications so there are several use
11:17
applications so there are several use cases where you can use a large language
11:19
cases where you can use a large language
11:19
cases where you can use a large language model of course you can use it and do
11:21
model of course you can use it and do
11:21
model of course you can use it and do role playing a lot of people are doing
11:23
role playing a lot of people are doing
11:23
role playing a lot of people are doing this right you can let it write a poem
11:27
this right you can let it write a poem
11:27
this right you can let it write a poem and let it write you know all those uh
11:30
and let it write you know all those uh
11:30
and let it write you know all those uh things but I see various use cases one
11:33
things but I see various use cases one
11:33
things but I see various use cases one of the most prominents I guess is uh
11:36
of the most prominents I guess is uh
11:36
of the most prominents I guess is uh chat with your
11:37
chat with your
11:37
chat with your data talk to your data right so what
11:40
data talk to your data right so what
11:40
data talk to your data right so what others call co-pilots I guess guess yeah
11:44
others call co-pilots I guess guess yeah
11:44
others call co-pilots I guess guess yeah okay a part of the co-pilot is also talk
11:46
okay a part of the co-pilot is also talk
11:47
okay a part of the co-pilot is also talk to your data yeah um but I mean the
11:50
to your data yeah um but I mean the
11:50
to your data yeah um but I mean the GitHub co-pilot for example right it's
11:52
GitHub co-pilot for example right it's
11:52
GitHub co-pilot for example right it's trained on all the data that is
11:54
trained on all the data that is
11:54
trained on all the data that is available on G exactly ex all the code
11:56
available on G exactly ex all the code
11:56
available on G exactly ex all the code has ever written and and been checked
11:58
has ever written and and been checked
11:58
has ever written and and been checked into any of the repost and all the you
11:59
into any of the repost and all the you
11:59
into any of the repost and all the you know everything in there it understands
12:02
know everything in there it understands
12:02
know everything in there it understands that domain that's that's what it knows
12:04
that domain that's that's what it knows
12:04
that domain that's that's what it knows that's why it can suggest to you what's
12:07
that's why it can suggest to you what's
12:07
that's why it can suggest to you what's the next code statement I should be
12:08
the next code statement I should be
12:08
the next code statement I should be writing because it it knows that with a
12:11
writing because it it knows that with a
12:11
writing because it it knows that with a reasonable degree of certainty right
12:13
reasonable degree of certainty right
12:13
reasonable degree of certainty right yeah yeah but with
12:15
yeah yeah but with
12:15
yeah yeah but with a large or smaller language model which
12:18
a large or smaller language model which
12:18
a large or smaller language model which you don't have to train or even to
12:21
you don't have to train or even to
12:21
you don't have to train or even to fine-tune you can use an approach called
12:24
fine-tune you can use an approach called
12:24
fine-tune you can use an approach called rack it's retrieval augmented generation
12:27
rack it's retrieval augmented generation
12:27
rack it's retrieval augmented generation where you first do a dat
12:29
where you first do a dat
12:29
where you first do a dat ingestion Pipeline and then you put it
12:32
ingestion Pipeline and then you put it
12:32
ingestion Pipeline and then you put it into a special database called a vector
12:34
into a special database called a vector
12:34
into a special database called a vector database and then you do a semantic
12:36
database and then you do a semantic
12:36
database and then you do a semantic search on that part of the system and
12:39
search on that part of the system and
12:39
search on that part of the system and then you get back results and then you
12:41
then you get back results and then you
12:41
then you get back results and then you take the top three top four top five
12:44
take the top three top four top five
12:44
take the top three top four top five results put it into the call to the
12:46
results put it into the call to the
12:46
results put it into the call to the large language model and the large
12:47
large language model and the large
12:47
large language model and the large language model gives you gives you a
12:49
language model gives you gives you a
12:49
language model gives you gives you a nice human like answer so that's one
12:53
nice human like answer so that's one
12:53
nice human like answer so that's one yeah exactly it's pretty cool that we
12:55
yeah exactly it's pretty cool that we
12:55
yeah exactly it's pretty cool that we can do this now though uh that that what
12:58
can do this now though uh that that what
12:58
can do this now though uh that that what you're saying is uh companies would
13:00
you're saying is uh companies would
13:00
you're saying is uh companies would would like to talk to their data so they
13:03
would like to talk to their data so they
13:03
would like to talk to their data so they have they have a lot of data but they
13:04
have they have a lot of data but they
13:04
have they have a lot of data but they wouldn't want to like give that data to
13:06
wouldn't want to like give that data to
13:06
wouldn't want to like give that data to the internet and let it be you know
13:09
the internet and let it be you know
13:09
the internet and let it be you know consumed into the large language model
13:11
consumed into the large language model
13:11
consumed into the large language model maybe that's business data right yeah so
13:15
maybe that's business data right yeah so
13:15
maybe that's business data right yeah so we have customers who are fine with that
13:17
we have customers who are fine with that
13:17
we have customers who are fine with that because as you know you can uh deploy
13:19
because as you know you can uh deploy
13:19
because as you know you can uh deploy gbt 4 Turbo in a data center around the
13:23
gbt 4 Turbo in a data center around the
13:23
gbt 4 Turbo in a data center around the corner with Asher right so that's fine
13:26
corner with Asher right so that's fine
13:26
corner with Asher right so that's fine uh and then you have an Enterprise
13:28
uh and then you have an Enterprise
13:28
uh and then you have an Enterprise agreement with Azure and maybe you
13:31
agreement with Azure and maybe you
13:31
agreement with Azure and maybe you already have all your emails inside of O
13:34
already have all your emails inside of O
13:34
already have all your emails inside of O 365 so you are in the cloud anyway so
13:37
365 so you are in the cloud anyway so
13:37
365 so you are in the cloud anyway so that's all fine but then there of course
13:39
that's all fine but then there of course
13:39
that's all fine but then there of course are use cases where you maybe really
13:42
are use cases where you maybe really
13:42
are use cases where you maybe really have another level of privacy like in
13:46
have another level of privacy like in
13:46
have another level of privacy like in legal cases or in tax situations right
13:49
legal cases or in tax situations right
13:49
legal cases or in tax situations right where you really cannot give out all
13:51
where you really cannot give out all
13:51
where you really cannot give out all those uh data uh and then we need to
13:54
those uh data uh and then we need to
13:54
those uh data uh and then we need to look at maybe not so large models but a
13:57
look at maybe not so large models but a
13:57
look at maybe not so large models but a little bit smaller models that we can a
14:01
little bit smaller models that we can a
14:01
little bit smaller models that we can a fit onto our hardware and into our
14:04
fit onto our hardware and into our
14:04
fit onto our hardware and into our existing uh infrastructure and still
14:09
existing uh infrastructure and still
14:09
existing uh infrastructure and still will be able to fulfill our use cases so
14:12
will be able to fulfill our use cases so
14:12
will be able to fulfill our use cases so essentially using the same technology
14:14
essentially using the same technology
14:14
essentially using the same technology except with a completely different data
14:16
except with a completely different data
14:16
except with a completely different data set your customer's data specifically
14:19
set your customer's data specifically
14:19
set your customer's data specifically and it's
14:20
and it's
14:20
and it's it's no no we actually also use
14:25
it's no no we actually also use
14:25
it's no no we actually also use different models so there are a lot of
14:29
different models so there are a lot of
14:29
different models so there are a lot of um offerings out there yeah you can
14:32
um offerings out there yeah you can
14:32
um offerings out there yeah you can download them there is open AI you
14:34
download them there is open AI you
14:34
download them there is open AI you cannot download that model it's just a
14:38
cannot download that model it's just a
14:38
cannot download that model it's just a an API it's an API but the model is is
14:41
an API it's an API but the model is is
14:41
an API it's an API but the model is is too big you couldn't download it if you
14:43
too big you couldn't download it if you
14:43
too big you couldn't download it if you tried anyway right the same goes for
14:46
tried anyway right the same goes for
14:46
tried anyway right the same goes for Azure open AI but then there are others
14:49
Azure open AI but then there are others
14:49
Azure open AI but then there are others from the open source uh world like M
14:53
from the open source uh world like M
14:53
from the open source uh world like M like llama from meta and like f
14:59
like llama from meta and like f
14:59
like llama from meta and like f uh
15:00
uh
15:00
uh Phi f 2 and F three from Microsoft you
15:05
Phi f 2 and F three from Microsoft you
15:05
Phi f 2 and F three from Microsoft you could run them or you could host them in
15:07
could run them or you could host them in
15:07
could run them or you could host them in the cloud and you can do that also in
15:09
the cloud and you can do that also in
15:09
the cloud and you can do that also in any of the Y prominent Cloud providers
15:13
any of the Y prominent Cloud providers
15:13
any of the Y prominent Cloud providers but you can also just download them and
15:16
but you can also just download them and
15:16
but you can also just download them and let them run but then those are still
15:19
let them run but then those are still
15:19
let them run but then those are still just the bare bones models yeah now you
15:22
just the bare bones models yeah now you
15:22
just the bare bones models yeah now you need to have the solution again in place
15:25
need to have the solution again in place
15:25
need to have the solution again in place to let the model know your data MH and
15:29
to let the model know your data MH and
15:29
to let the model know your data MH and there are basically two approaches Y in
15:33
there are basically two approaches Y in
15:33
there are basically two approaches Y in order to let the model know your your
15:36
order to let the model know your your
15:36
order to let the model know your your domain in terms of um what is your
15:39
domain in terms of um what is your
15:39
domain in terms of um what is your domain language what is your domain
15:42
domain language what is your domain
15:42
domain language what is your domain thinking yeah what is the way that your
15:44
thinking yeah what is the way that your
15:44
thinking yeah what is the way that your domain is expressing things then you are
15:47
domain is expressing things then you are
15:47
domain is expressing things then you are doing fine-tuning of the model yep
15:49
doing fine-tuning of the model yep
15:49
doing fine-tuning of the model yep that's quite expensive still but it's
15:51
that's quite expensive still but it's
15:51
that's quite expensive still but it's getting better the other part again is
15:54
getting better the other part again is
15:54
getting better the other part again is doing R the retrieval augmented
15:56
doing R the retrieval augmented
15:57
doing R the retrieval augmented generation where you just um have your
15:59
generation where you just um have your
15:59
generation where you just um have your data sitting in a database or in a blob
16:02
data sitting in a database or in a blob
16:02
data sitting in a database or in a blob storage or on a disk and then you're
16:04
storage or on a disk and then you're
16:05
storage or on a disk and then you're putting it into a vector database and
16:07
putting it into a vector database and
16:07
putting it into a vector database and then you can do a semantic search on
16:08
then you can do a semantic search on
16:08
then you can do a semantic search on that and again then you get back the
16:10
that and again then you get back the
16:10
that and again then you get back the data and talk to your model yeah and now
16:13
data and talk to your model yeah and now
16:13
data and talk to your model yeah and now the interesting part is there is an API
16:17
the interesting part is there is an API
16:17
the interesting part is there is an API standard more or less which is the open
16:20
standard more or less which is the open
16:20
standard more or less which is the open AI
16:21
AI
16:21
AI API open AI
16:23
API open AI
16:23
API open AI a almost the entire alphabet right there
16:27
a almost the entire alphabet right there
16:27
a almost the entire alphabet right there oh
16:31
and each uh um and everybody and his
16:35
and each uh um and everybody and his
16:35
and each uh um and everybody and his mother more or less is now trying to
16:37
mother more or less is now trying to
16:37
mother more or less is now trying to mimic the open AI API for their own uh
16:40
mimic the open AI API for their own uh
16:40
mimic the open AI API for their own uh models or model hosting Solutions so
16:43
models or model hosting Solutions so
16:43
models or model hosting Solutions so that you are able to to switch between
16:47
that you are able to to switch between
16:47
that you are able to to switch between the large ones and the hosted ones and
16:50
the large ones and the hosted ones and
16:50
the large ones and the hosted ones and the large ones and the small ones and
16:52
the large ones and the small ones and
16:52
the large ones and the small ones and the hosted ones and so on and so forth
16:53
the hosted ones and so on and so forth
16:53
the hosted ones and so on and so forth so that you have quite a flexibility on
16:57
so that you have quite a flexibility on
16:57
so that you have quite a flexibility on the client and on the assuming side
17:00
the client and on the assuming side
17:00
the client and on the assuming side yeah that's
17:03
yeah that's
17:03
yeah that's good um so so now you can pick and
17:05
good um so so now you can pick and
17:05
good um so so now you can pick and choose and and so what when would you
17:08
choose and and so what when would you
17:08
choose and and so what when would you choose to have a like you I think you
17:10
choose to have a like you I think you
17:10
choose to have a like you I think you were alluding to it like when your data
17:12
were alluding to it like when your data
17:12
were alluding to it like when your data is maybe not so public when there's a
17:14
is maybe not so public when there's a
17:14
is maybe not so public when there's a reason like then then you might you
17:15
reason like then then you might you
17:15
reason like then then you might you might not want to move that data to the
17:17
might not want to move that data to the
17:17
might not want to move that data to the cloud you want to have it off line yes
17:20
cloud you want to have it off line yes
17:20
cloud you want to have it off line yes so one aspect is privacy yeah another
17:23
so one aspect is privacy yeah another
17:23
so one aspect is privacy yeah another another aspect is ubiquitousness which
17:26
another aspect is ubiquitousness which
17:26
another aspect is ubiquitousness which means I really want to have it
17:27
means I really want to have it
17:27
means I really want to have it everywhere I think we will have language
17:30
everywhere I think we will have language
17:31
everywhere I think we will have language models everywhere on our phones on our
17:33
models everywhere on our phones on our
17:33
models everywhere on our phones on our tablets on our laptops on edge devices
17:36
tablets on our laptops on edge devices
17:36
tablets on our laptops on edge devices in iot scenarios yeah here on the
17:40
in iot scenarios yeah here on the
17:40
in iot scenarios yeah here on the desktop in in the company and so on and
17:43
desktop in in the company and so on and
17:43
desktop in in the company and so on and so forth so that's number two number
17:46
so forth so that's number two number
17:46
so forth so that's number two number three is maybe
17:48
three is maybe
17:48
three is maybe specialization because those large
17:50
specialization because those large
17:51
specialization because those large language models are know it alls really
17:53
language models are know it alls really
17:53
language models are know it alls really like know it alls like a right and maybe
17:57
like know it alls like a right and maybe
17:57
like know it alls like a right and maybe you don't need those know it alls you
17:59
you don't need those know it alls you
17:59
you don't need those know it alls you really want an expert in finance you
18:02
really want an expert in finance you
18:02
really want an expert in finance you want an expert in Texas you want an
18:04
want an expert in Texas you want an
18:04
want an expert in Texas you want an expert in XY andz which is much more
18:08
expert in XY andz which is much more
18:08
expert in XY andz which is much more easier to uh achieve maybe when you are
18:11
easier to uh achieve maybe when you are
18:11
easier to uh achieve maybe when you are using a smaller model that makes sense
18:14
using a smaller model that makes sense
18:14
using a smaller model that makes sense like I think I think Scott Hanselman did
18:16
like I think I think Scott Hanselman did
18:16
like I think I think Scott Hanselman did it funny when he was asking he was in
18:18
it funny when he was asking he was in
18:18
it funny when he was asking he was in inside of Visual Studio code and he was
18:20
inside of Visual Studio code and he was
18:20
inside of Visual Studio code and he was talking to the co-pilot and he asked it
18:22
talking to the co-pilot and he asked it
18:22
talking to the co-pilot and he asked it for a recipe for an omelette or
18:23
for a recipe for an omelette or
18:23
for a recipe for an omelette or something like yeah maybe you need that
18:26
something like yeah maybe you need that
18:26
something like yeah maybe you need that but maybe not in the context of I'm in
18:28
but maybe not in the context of I'm in
18:28
but maybe not in the context of I'm in Studio code so maybe that language model
18:31
Studio code so maybe that language model
18:31
Studio code so maybe that language model knows a little bit of things that it not
18:34
knows a little bit of things that it not
18:34
knows a little bit of things that it not relevant so as far as I know co-pilot
18:37
relevant so as far as I know co-pilot
18:37
relevant so as far as I know co-pilot uses the Codex model which should not be
18:40
uses the Codex model which should not be
18:40
uses the Codex model which should not be able to answer that but I did not know
18:44
able to answer that but I did not know
18:44
able to answer that but I did not know somehow he got some I don't know exactly
18:46
somehow he got some I don't know exactly
18:46
somehow he got some I don't know exactly what he did but at least the point is
18:48
what he did but at least the point is
18:48
what he did but at least the point is still valid right when you're in a
18:50
still valid right when you're in a
18:50
still valid right when you're in a certain context you don't need all the
18:53
certain context you don't need all the
18:53
certain context you don't need all the world of other contexts you want to have
18:56
world of other contexts you want to have
18:56
world of other contexts you want to have a special specialist in the context that
18:58
a special specialist in the context that
18:58
a special specialist in the context that is Rel for what you're doing yeah yeah
19:00
is Rel for what you're doing yeah yeah
19:00
is Rel for what you're doing yeah yeah and then the last point I see is what we
19:04
and then the last point I see is what we
19:04
and then the last point I see is what we call Performance and performance not in
19:06
call Performance and performance not in
19:06
call Performance and performance not in the classical um sense so of course in
19:08
the classical um sense so of course in
19:08
the classical um sense so of course in the classical sense as in latency
19:10
the classical sense as in latency
19:10
the classical sense as in latency because sometimes talking to GPT
19:14
because sometimes talking to GPT
19:14
because sometimes talking to GPT whatever number can be quite quite slow
19:17
whatever number can be quite quite slow
19:17
whatever number can be quite quite slow although they are called turbo they are
19:18
although they are called turbo they are
19:18
although they are called turbo they are not turbo so latency is very very to
19:22
not turbo so latency is very very to
19:23
not turbo so latency is very very to call it turbo maybe It Isn't So
19:25
call it turbo maybe It Isn't So
19:25
call it turbo maybe It Isn't So turbo what's in a name what's in a name
19:28
turbo what's in a name what's in a name
19:28
turbo what's in a name what's in a name so it's about it's about uh latency but
19:32
so it's about it's about uh latency but
19:32
so it's about it's about uh latency but it's also about the quality it's about
19:34
it's also about the quality it's about
19:34
it's also about the quality it's about uh maybe that the data is from a a
19:38
uh maybe that the data is from a a
19:38
uh maybe that the data is from a a certain level of quality that it has a
19:41
certain level of quality that it has a
19:41
certain level of quality that it has a certain bias that you can maybe even
19:43
certain bias that you can maybe even
19:43
certain bias that you can maybe even tweak and um control you know yeah um so
19:49
tweak and um control you know yeah um so
19:49
tweak and um control you know yeah um so performance is a very very important um
19:52
performance is a very very important um
19:52
performance is a very very important um Factor yeah then of course you have a
19:55
Factor yeah then of course you have a
19:55
Factor yeah then of course you have a myriad of language models out there
19:58
myriad of language models out there
19:58
myriad of language models out there there is a community called hugging face
20:00
there is a community called hugging face
20:00
there is a community called hugging face have you ever heard of them I've heard
20:02
have you ever heard of them I've heard
20:02
have you ever heard of them I've heard about hugging face but I'm not sure what
20:04
about hugging face but I'm not sure what
20:04
about hugging face but I'm not sure what I know they have a very nice logo they
20:06
I know they have a very nice logo they
20:06
I know they have a very nice logo they have the that huging face face yeah yes
20:09
have the that huging face face yeah yes
20:09
have the that huging face face yeah yes from the Emojis exactly and this is more
20:12
from the Emojis exactly and this is more
20:12
from the Emojis exactly and this is more or less like GitHub for AI they have
20:14
or less like GitHub for AI they have
20:14
or less like GitHub for AI they have everything not just large language
20:16
everything not just large language
20:16
everything not just large language models and language models they have
20:18
models and language models they have
20:18
models and language models they have literally everything in Ai and uh from
20:21
literally everything in Ai and uh from
20:22
literally everything in Ai and uh from there you can really um well you can
20:24
there you can really um well you can
20:24
there you can really um well you can dive into the portal and you can come
20:28
dive into the portal and you can come
20:28
dive into the portal and you can come out weeks later right because it's so
20:30
out weeks later right because it's so
20:30
out weeks later right because it's so huge and they have what they call um
20:34
huge and they have what they call um
20:34
huge and they have what they call um well evaluation um reports and
20:38
well evaluation um reports and
20:38
well evaluation um reports and leaderboards where you can have a look
20:40
leaderboards where you can have a look
20:40
leaderboards where you can have a look at at which kind of use case and which
20:45
at at which kind of use case and which
20:45
at at which kind of use case and which kind of scenario which large or SM small
20:49
kind of scenario which large or SM small
20:49
kind of scenario which large or SM small language model is how good or not so
20:51
language model is how good or not so
20:51
language model is how good or not so good okay and the models that I
20:55
good okay and the models that I
20:55
good okay and the models that I personally and we with our customer work
20:57
personally and we with our customer work
20:58
personally and we with our customer work with are either in the cloud like open
21:00
with are either in the cloud like open
21:00
with are either in the cloud like open Ai and AER open a relevant situation yes
21:04
Ai and AER open a relevant situation yes
21:04
Ai and AER open a relevant situation yes then there is Mistral AI which is a
21:06
then there is Mistral AI which is a
21:06
then there is Mistral AI which is a French company which is very very
21:08
French company which is very very
21:08
French company which is very very interesting for
21:10
interesting for
21:10
interesting for M they have they have a platform they
21:14
M they have they have a platform they
21:14
M they have they have a platform they called
21:18
platform so and then M also has open
21:22
platform so and then M also has open
21:22
platform so and then M also has open source models like mistal 7B and the B
21:26
source models like mistal 7B and the B
21:26
source models like mistal 7B and the B is for billion parameters and then
21:29
is for billion parameters and then
21:29
is for billion parameters and then there's Al so the mix and then there are
21:32
there's Al so the mix and then there are
21:32
there's Al so the mix and then there are derivatives like um like sair you can
21:37
derivatives like um like sair you can
21:37
derivatives like um like sair you can hear that like Mistral is a wind sapphir
21:41
hear that like Mistral is a wind sapphir
21:41
hear that like Mistral is a wind sapphir is a wind so they are all to to into
21:44
is a wind so they are all to to into
21:45
is a wind so they are all to to into those weird names also in the open
21:47
those weird names also in the open
21:47
those weird names also in the open source world and of course now we are
21:49
source world and of course now we are
21:49
source world and of course now we are also looking into llama 3 which has been
21:52
also looking into llama 3 which has been
21:52
also looking into llama 3 which has been released just a few weeks ago by meta
21:55
released just a few weeks ago by meta
21:55
released just a few weeks ago by meta and into 53 which has been um released
21:58
and into 53 which has been um released
21:58
and into 53 which has been um released to the open World by Microsoft so you
22:01
to the open World by Microsoft so you
22:01
to the open World by Microsoft so you kind of need to be to have and and have
22:04
kind of need to be to have and and have
22:04
kind of need to be to have and and have experts around to advise you on on which
22:07
experts around to advise you on on which
22:07
experts around to advise you on on which which model is is the one that we're
22:09
which model is is the one that we're
22:09
which model is is the one that we're going to use you know what I have the
22:12
going to use you know what I have the
22:12
going to use you know what I have the comfort that
22:14
comfort that
22:14
comfort that I can do this
22:18
I can do this
22:18
I can do this 100% yeah
22:20
100% yeah
22:20
100% yeah 247 more or less if if you can yeah
22:23
247 more or less if if you can yeah
22:23
247 more or less if if you can yeah exactly however much you you have energy
22:25
exactly however much you you have energy
22:25
exactly however much you you have energy for yeah which is good you know I have a
22:27
for yeah which is good you know I have a
22:27
for yeah which is good you know I have a lot of energy
22:29
lot of energy
22:29
lot of energy I know I do know that all right well I
22:32
I know I do know that all right well I
22:32
I know I do know that all right well I think this has been very uh enlightening
22:35
think this has been very uh enlightening
22:35
think this has been very uh enlightening and I think we could talk for um hours
22:37
and I think we could talk for um hours
22:37
and I think we could talk for um hours possibly days about this sure um but I'm
22:40
possibly days about this sure um but I'm
22:40
possibly days about this sure um but I'm going to have to ask you to come back
22:42
going to have to ask you to come back
22:42
going to have to ask you to come back and talk more about this topic at
22:45
and talk more about this topic at
22:45
and talk more about this topic at because we are out of time for this
22:47
because we are out of time for this
22:47
because we are out of time for this episode
22:49
episode
22:49
episode n but anyway it's been a a bloody
22:52
n but anyway it's been a a bloody
22:52
n but anyway it's been a a bloody brilliant conversation I really really
22:54
brilliant conversation I really really
22:54
brilliant conversation I really really enjoyed it thank you so much uh
22:56
enjoyed it thank you so much uh
22:56
enjoyed it thank you so much uh Christian for being on the cloud show
22:58
Christian for being on the cloud show
22:58
Christian for being on the cloud show today and thank thank you for having me
23:00
today and thank thank you for having me
23:00
today and thank thank you for having me again oh absolutely our pleasure and and
23:02
again oh absolutely our pleasure and and
23:03
again oh absolutely our pleasure and and audience I hope you enjoyed this episode
23:05
audience I hope you enjoyed this episode
23:05
audience I hope you enjoyed this episode let us know in comments Etc and uh see
23:08
let us know in comments Etc and uh see
23:08
let us know in comments Etc and uh see you on the next episode of the cloud
23:10
you on the next episode of the cloud
23:10
you on the next episode of the cloud show thank you