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Copychat Show: Why swiping launch strategies don't work + how to use an MVL with Eman Zabi
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Mar 27, 2020
Why swiping launch strategies don't work + how to use an MVL with Eman Zabi Guest Name: Eman Zabi Website: https://www.thescribesmith.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/emanzabi/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thescribesmith/ ========================== https://www.copyflight.com/ #copywriting #contentmarketing #digitalmarketing Follow me on our other social media platforms: Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/copyflight/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/tejones LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/toddejonesark/
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[Music]
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hey welcome to the coffee chat show I'm your host Todd Jones the redneck coffee snob on the copy's chat show we talk
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about content marketing copywriting and digital marketing and my guest today is
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Aman Xabi who specializes in copywriting for launches is that correct Aman yeah
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thanks for having me I do I specialize in launches for entrepreneurs launching courses and membership hot forms
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anything else you want to tell us about yourself sure so I'm based out of Vancouver I
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started my business at 22 I'm currently 25 so if you're doing the math cos we've been around for three
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years now we've grown into a small team part of the team is in DC we have like some
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people in India and really spread out and yeah we also just launched our very
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first physical product in November we pre-sold it and they're getting ready to be shipped out to people actually in the
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next week or so so super excited about that remind me what that product is I can do one better I can show it to you
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I'm gonna grab those so we actually it's a physical product so we actually have
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this is a launch planning duck and this is a copywriter deck and we turned our
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system for planning launches into actual like actual physical decks help people
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plan and execute their launches so super excited to actually get those out to people who purchased them last year you
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know and I do a lot of digital stuff I don't do very much riding anymore which I know what this says about me but there
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is still a call for physical products with within the content space I have a friend who did a planner last actually
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two friends who did a planner landing here Shareen did one right I have another friend who did one as well and
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the fiscal planner now she has a digital she has a PDF version and then she's
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doing a Trello board now so which I'm I'm in the beta group for that but
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there's still a call for people to hold something in their hand and do the
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planning for sure yeah for sure it makes a big difference to be able to actually physically
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something and be able to move those different bits and pieces around and I found in my case I I've always used sort
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of flashcards to plan my lunches and then I was talking to a client and I just like pick them up as I was talking
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and then she was more interested in the flashcards I was holding than what I was saying and I didn't know how to take
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that but then I decided to roll with it and that's really how these how the Ducks were born now I was listening to
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the podcast you had came out recently and the redheaded lady I don't remember what her name is it was a really good
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interview she did a great job of pulling her story out of you that's what I was listening to I was in awe of her ability
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to do that so you know I knew you were
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probably pretty young everybody looking at me so when I found out that you know
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you just went to college not long ago and you started your business I was
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amazed at like how much you've done so early in your career thank you yeah um I
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feel like lots of different things fell into place for me and I got really lucky that I discovered the copywriter Club so
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early on I started I think it was the I want to say the 8th or the 9th of
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December 2016 I found the copywriter Club early 2017 invested right away when
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they launched the accelerator and the think tank twice and I think just
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investing really early on into my business was probably in mentorship really made the big difference for me
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Rob and Kira are varied they're champions of Champions I think so yes
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I was very impressed with how fast you got into copywriting and how quickly
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you've succeeded sorry go ahead naturally you you tribute a lot of that
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to the copywriter Club for sure I mean I would attribute almost all of it to Karin Rob creating this incredible space
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where I think the big thing about the copywriter Club is it was always community / competition and everybody
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was helping each other out so I got so much help early on and it was the I
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think the collection of help of that entire movement I think it was like a few thousand people time that really helped me go from
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really not knowing what the word copywriting really meant to the point where I have a business I have a team I
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have products I have I'm paying salaries I have a full-time employees so yeah yeah so for those who are watching and
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listing and obviously am on and on earn in the same group and we know what we're talking about but just in case you don't
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know the copywriting copywriter Club is a Facebook group and a podcast and run
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by Kyra hug and Rob Marsh right yep and on top of that they do an
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accelerator basically for copywriters conversion copywriters let me tell you I've never met either one of them
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personally but I've chatted with them and one time or another on Facebook and they're just I would I would love to
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meet them sometime just cuz I think there's such good people just really good-hearted people yeah they're good
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people they're incredibly generous every single thing we do they bring like 200% to the table and what I love about them
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is that they're genuinely invested in your success beyond like beyond the time that you're just in their programs as
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well because I haven't been part of their programs for over a year now and they still keep in touch they still
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check in they're still just as happy to see me and see me succeed as they were a while I was part of the program there
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are a lot of conferences out there in the digital marketing space not too many that I desire to go to but the
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copywriter Club in real life I would love to go to I think you get to meet
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some people you admire and look up to others you would call friends people I'm
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amazed at you know people who I think are so much higher than me in business
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but they're willing to like give of their time and expertise in the Facebook
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community you know Josh Groff flo-jo click a per no we were talking about her
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earlier obviously Rob and Kira and and so many others that are that are in the
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group and and you know I know we've all learned from Joanna as well she's kind of the one that started it all in a lot
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of ways and just just that's that is one workshop or one conference I would
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aspire to go so far they've had it on both coasts I'm in the middle America so
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in San Diego I would have loved to go but anyway Iman just got back from there she went last week so anyways if Robin
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care if you're listening we we appreciate everything you've done for the copy writers so okay let's go on to
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the next segment which is kind of a little bit more fun so it's I call it
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the getting-to-know-you lightning around so are you ready let's do it favorite
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dessert cheesecake okay I see know somebody he just gave the
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same answer favorite TV show Oh news room by Aaron Sorkin fantastic show is
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that like a on a streaming well I don't think it's on anything anymore um I mean
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I illegally streamed it back in the day but it's I don't know if I just say that out loud but no it's a great show I
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think every copywriter slash every writers life every human being in the world needs to watch it because it's one
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of the best written shows on the planet newsroom yes okay I'll try to look that up favorite holiday
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well I want to say I don't have one
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that's really weird I'm like I don't discriminate between my holidays I like your birthday maybe maybe maybe maybe I
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do start planning my birthday several months in advance to let's say the 10th of August all right happy birthday early
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favorite author Oh Charles Darwin
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Charles Darwin okay you're a bit of a
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sociology nerd right yeah I mean I mean I yeah my degree was in political science oh you read a lot of weird stuff
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I hear you what is your go-to karaoke song I avoid karaoke like a plague for
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the sake of everybody else in the room well what would you be found
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singing privately that you just love to sing this is embarrassing but the song from The Lion King I think
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it's like in the jungle yes azam the lion sleeps tonight yeah that's actually an old song
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and it goes back to 50s or 60s oh but it's a really good I believe so yeah
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okay any famous distant relatives or friends okay do you have a personal
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motto yes and I don't know again I don't
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like a lot of my stuff is stuff that I probably shouldn't be saying out loud but it's called I'd say it's like shoot
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and call whatever you hit the target and I feel like that's just been my life say it again shoot and call whatever you
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hit the target okay I can see that I mean we all kind of have that right so
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if you could live anywhere where would it be Oh Singapore for sure where
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Singapore okay yeah fixtures I've seen
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from they're really pretty yeah it's warm and it's super high-tech but there's still a ton of culture and the
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food is great it's very tropical right yes yeah okay what influencer would you like to meet
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for a cup of tea we're meet setting hands down hmm I'm sorry I should speak up ramit sethi oh
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yeah yeah I barely know who he is I mean I known more now like it's a couple of
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years ago I've never heard of him and that's this big deal in the digital marketing space yeah hmm I follow Selina
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sue a lot and lakes Selina got a got her break with him so yeah harbour story
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anyway so and last question favorite subject in school math really okay
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your sociology buff political science major and you love math well people
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don't realize how much science and math is in conversion copyrighting that's a fighter yeah I mean I
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this conversation with Sophie about it and and she I think she that's one
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reason she makes a good conversion copywriter to probably why I'm not very good at so okay your specialty we talked
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about earlier is writing copy for launches and so what I'd like to do is
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kind of define what you mean by launch sure so there she types of launches and
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I specialize primarily in live launches so the alternative is an evergreen
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launch where you have one product and you're driving traffic to it and it's on sale continuously essentially with a
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live launch you have a product that is like on offer for a limited period of
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time and you're either launching it to just your list or you're opening it up to like your broader audience and
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running them to a certain sequence of sequence of events can you give an example of what you're calling a live
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launch sure so um b-school for example I think everyone's familiar well most people are
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familiar with b-school Mary opens the cart for I think it's a two-week period and cart closes after that and you can't
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purchase B school after that two-week periods past so you put on a waitlist or someone I know it opens every year part
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of being on some people's lists as you get those emails when it comes out every year
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Tarzan being one of them so each each year do they write everything new for a
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launch or do they recycle what they use a year before so so it really depends on
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your strategy if you found that your launch has done incredibly one well one year then you really don't need to
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change too much the next year you might notice that if you launch the same thing
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to your audience over and over again they might start to notice so I feel like you started getting diminishing
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returns from that over a period of time so after I'd say if your copy is performing really well and there's no
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room for improvement and you've launched to that list specifically maybe twice or
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thrice over a couple of years then I would consider just scrapping and restarting but apart from that if you
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feel like there's room for improvement launchers are best done in like iteration so you really want to improve
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something with every relaunch so you're constantly reevaluating like after you
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went there launch period how do can you get without giving away secrets if you give an example of how you would
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evaluate a launch for the next year sure so one of my favorite ways of doing it
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is um when you when you send out emails um you should be looking at the kind of responses you're getting and the kind of
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the kind of emails that people are responding to the most and that gives you a good sense of where their pain points are and what kind of messaging is
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resonating the most and then for example you sent out an email where you say
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you're talking with b-school you're talking about you know moms who have who
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don't have access to child care or something along those lines and like are struggling with that so if you feel like that's something that strikes the court
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then for the next time you do have a launch you play up that factor even more so you're evaluating on something that
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happened a year ago so me years a lot of time to go between I mean the the Enduro
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but there could be a big change in sentiment from year to year I mean you're you're basing it on a year ago
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does it work most the time when you do that or I mean it really depends like it's hard it's hard to make like that's
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the thing about launch it's hard to make like broad sweeping stay mince about it and it really just depends on the data you get from that specific launch
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obviously if you're if there's going to be a full year between your launches you want to be doing you want to be using
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more recent data from say your nurture sequences or like your social media campaigns and things like that and really doing a lot of social listening
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around your audience but generally the key message here is to pay attention to the kind of messaging and the key pain
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points of your audience and see what strikes a chord in your launched messaging and then play those up the
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next time around I would imagine also because you're segmenting your list I
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mean these are bigger lists and than mine but maybe you write a different sequence for
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different segments of the lists yeah absolutely absolutely you should be sending separate like conditional
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messaging essentially if you should be using that for different buckets I one
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of my clients actually sends out I think it's six at this point she sends and she's got six segments where I listen
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the launch copy and everything looks completely different for each of each of those six segments and it's a ton of
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work but the return is totally worth it and that's but that's something that you don't necessarily arrive at overnight
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she's been launching the same the like a version of this course essentially for
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the last six years and that's grown over time and it's just every year she
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refines the data she has about that particular subset of her audience so for example of their fitness videos so a
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fitness studio owners so first-time studios tend to have these kind of pain points so she knows this she's got six
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years of data and so all of the copy within that mini sequence within the launch is catered to that people who are
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sort of midway through their studio career have totally different pain points and so on and so forth so while
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people may move from one level to another over the years like they may have like from year-to-year their pain
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points may change but people who are in that specific stage of life necessarily they usually tend to have those pain
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points the same pain point so you as long as you're targeting who aren't targeting the same people but you're
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targeting people who are in that same stage of life if that makes sense so what do you do with someone who like
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b-school like they went through it last year do you send them emails the next year or different kinds of emails or a
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chance to be an affiliate or so know the way they're doing it right now as I see
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them sending it to everybody whether they purchase or not I know that I've never purchased me school and I still
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get the same emails over and over again right I am seeing people start to offer an opportunity to unsubscribe from that
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specific list which is great because it's not something of interest to me specifically I don't necessarily want to receive those emails and that's a good
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practice thing to follow but generally I do see people re sending those emails simply because sometimes people don't
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purchase for a variety of different reasons like funds not having access to the funds or not being at the right
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stage of the business your purchase etc so when you do send that out to everybody whoever it's relevant to will
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usually self select and other people just choose to opt out of that sequence yeah now one more question before I get
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to the the big question that that I want to discuss how big a list you have to
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have for one of these launches to really segment I mean you talking thousand
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people 500 people I know that my list is you know half of that and 500 and in
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segmentation I mean I have all these things segmented but really honestly they're not that relevant I mean you
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know I have a few segments that maybe you're worth having but segmentation
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should probably start assimilate you should start at the same time your list building efforts start it's just way
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easier for you to segment from the start then getting to a point where you have like a hundred thousand people person
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list and then try to work backwards and have people segment and opt-in and things like that it can be done but it's
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just really it's sort of best practice you start like when you have a very small list in terms of sending out
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segmented campaigns I would say you start seeing ROI around the 500 person
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mark usually yeah and the tops of things
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you write for a launch include I guess sales page a sequence for each segment
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yeah we do do sales pages with a different opening hooks for different
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segments usually because the core offer is the same interest means swapping out a few things here and there prioritizing
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different things sales pages sorry on sales emails webinar funnels we
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essentially do the full funnel at this point when I started when it was just me we were just doing like the email
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sequences and then the feminist sales page and now we do Facebook sometimes we manage the ads for people
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as well we do the whole webinar funnel webinar script so on and really everything from like the list building
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effort to the debrief yeah so that's a good segue to the big question that I
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wanted to to go off of which I think something you having done several
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launches as a writer a copywriter or uniquely qualified expert to talk about
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and it plays into some of the products you're offering now even so why do people struggle with their launches when
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they're using a blueprint that maybe they you know a swipe blueprint or something like that yeah
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so I actually find it very weird that people have these whole launch blueprints altogether because I think
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launches are they have like your launch strategy has to be in response to the
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specific constraints and opportunities provided by your specific business like
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if you don't have like a thirty thousand dollar budget to launch you can't apply if they're like someone else's launch
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strategy that has like a ten thousand dollar ad budget and has like videographers and all of these different
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components to it you have your launch strategy has to stem from what's available to you specifically you might
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have a much more engaged list than somebody who has a fifty thousand person list so you have you might not
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necessarily need to have like the big webinar funnel and all of that so like it's just strange to me that people are
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trying to it's like trying to fit like it's trying to force your somewhat like it's it's not like you want those toys
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that used to be around where like you'd have like lots of tools in different shapes and you'd have to like fit them
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in like yeah so it's essentially like that you're exactly that was what I was looking for thank you yeah what is that
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toy called yeah well there's also Legos but not quite the same yeah no I mean so now but
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see if I'm um maybe a smaller business or coach or consultant or whatever and
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I'm looking to launch something and I'm looking at say Amy Porter who's very well-known in the digital
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space and yes she's got a in case you're watching listening and you don't realize Amy's got a team right she's got a big
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team and so and she does have a course on doing courses as well so she's got
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stuff that you and I don't have a lot of solopreneurs and so forth but if I'm if
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I'm that person and I'm wanting to launch something and I don't have you
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know the the resources that amy has and you're telling me
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using a freedom blueprint is a bad idea because it doesn't really fit with the
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same as the person who made the blueprint so what is my option I know you have a process for that and now once
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you tell us about it sure so I would so I think the first step is actually
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deciding whether you're ready to launch in the first place so it's kind of looking at a couple of different things like is there an actual demand or
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whatever you're launching are you fulfilling an actual need and something that I asked my clients or prospective
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clients a lot is have people actually asked you for this specific offer like if you are offering a coaching package
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how many people have asked you for this if you were to email those people right now what would they pay for it so you're
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really just having an understanding of what the demand is for whatever you're offering that's like that's probably the
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very first thing you need to be doing and then looking at your audience so what kind of where are they in that
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custard like sort of a customer awareness journey are they sort of aware that they have a problem or are they
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ready - ready - like purchase and are they very much social we're essentially
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are they asking you specifically for that solution because your strategy will depend on where they are in that for
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example if you feel like your audience does actually need this but there there
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are some knowledge gaps essentially like they're they know they need this but they don't know quite that this is the
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solution and that you're the person for that then you might need to actually have that webinar and have that funnel so the components you including your
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have to be response to something that you're seeing in your business they are
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a response to a certain constraint or an opportunity that you're seeing the other thing you need to be considering is your
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actual reach if you have if this is if you've just started a business and you have no organic reach and you have no
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list and you have no connections then your launch is gonna fail it just comes down to that like how how big is your
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organic reach I like to tell people to assume that only 0.5% of their actual
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email list will convert and if you said that as your benchmark are you gonna hit your goals are you okay neck actually
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break even so those are the kind of things that I tell people I consider before you even start because you don't know you never want to be III you never
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want to be putting in money you don't have until lunch because your first launch is a gamble and you don't want to
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lose money on it yeah people don't think about that I think you know I launched
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the product last year and you did as well yeah you know and I don't know if
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those things all I would pass the test on all those things I will say I had
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some organic reach and I did invest a single ad in my product so you know it
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was all organic in that regard you know they didn't have my email list and I would say probably about 0.5% maybe less
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than that of my list actually bought it now a whole lot of other people have downloaded like some freebies like I've
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offered the about page and the home page framework for free not the whole thing and I've had a few people add to the
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list just to get those things I did what maybe you had called them come a minimum
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Bible launch I I mean I made some money
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on it I was fortunate I had some people to help me along the way I didn't do a
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traditional final I didn't do a webinar and now after what you said that makes
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me think maybe I should have done at least a simplistic webinar where I
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basically did a video and kind of is that would that have been a good idea
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where people did you feel people weren't aware of how your product would help them I think they were
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because the the very product I launched was meant to address I mean I told you I
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did WordPress websites now been in the digital space and one of the biggest things I don't I mean you don't have to
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convince people that it's a problem that Crockett the content they know that right it's how do you solve that problem
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and there are multiple ways to do it Ron is one of many their software their software out there to help with that as
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well right but what I guess maybe what mine did my product does is well I knew it was on to
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something when I had given away all these worksheets to a community and one
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of the guys came back to me said I took all this and I sold and he's from UK so I sold it to think he said two thousand
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pound consulting package to welcome through like you did what and it's like
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wow okay so you have a product that if you know and I know a lot of people just
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kind of want to you know they want a plug-and-play right there Mike put on your consulting hat and walk him through
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this make some money off of it you know and and it'll help because I had a
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project one time I've told a story multiple times when I was working with agency the after they onboarding and the
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design they hand it off to me and I did everything so product management talk to the customer build the website insert
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the content and it took over a year to complete because of the content which is
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mostly the writing part right and so that's what you run into and there are
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different ways to solve it I feel like a lot of customers who decide they're
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going to write their own content to save money or whatever are looking at a blank screen they don't know what the right
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and so you know the the the need was there and as as more than one person
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told me is like look I don't have to produce it it's already done I'll pay money and there it is I walk around with
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and so yeah I think there was a need sure I mean if you wanted to go like
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real really light on how you executed it maybe even having done a few Facebook
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lives or a few just saying that like like maybe even if people were fairly
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problem or then maybe if you like gave them a demo and what it looks like or something along those case studies
29:32
testimonial it's all of those things yeah yeah yeah I like I've told you I
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demoed the product I mean it was kind of informal Monday and the white label and
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I haven't rolled out yet so hopefully about time this comes out it'll be out but and and she said send me an invoice
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and okay so it was a copywriter it
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wasn't even that we're not even talking about a digital agency and so I'm like well maybe you know it's not just for
30:02
WordPress developers maybe other people can use it so anyway so now and you
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you've come up with something and you've trademarked it looks like you caught them in the process
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okay Minimum Viable launch can you talk about that but with the context of our
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conversation has been around launches so Frank can you talk about the Minimum Viable launch sure so it's essentially a
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way of launching where you have minimum capital minimum effort but you have the opportunity to collect maximum
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information about your audience and then so that you can use it in future
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iterations but also just it's about maximizing your potential revenue at
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each stage as well so if if I'm a coach
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or consultant and I'm launching something and I want to take this process that you're talking about how
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would that look sure so essentially it's your way of validating your offer before you put too
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much money into it right so like you would have to I like to see it in three different stages so you have to pre
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launch the maybe part of your launch itself and then the post launch period where you're actually doing the debrief and analyzing the data your pre launch
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will involve a lot of the things I talked about earlier which is looking at your audience your demand and your
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and then that's where you would really formulate your strategy you would look at the specific opportunities available
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to your audience like if there are sorry available to you as a business owner
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like if there are networks that you can leverage and all of those things and where you if there's like partnership
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opportunities join a webinars things that align necessarily wit like what the pain points of your audience and then
31:48
just taking advantage of all of those but also looking at like the fact we you may not necessarily have like a 40-person team like Amy does or it like
31:56
a lot of these larger launches that I'm not part of they have when they're not launching like during their regular
32:01
periods they spend around thirty thousand dollars on ads so during launches that goes up to a hundred thousand usually and most people don't
32:07
have access to that really like that's what some people make an ear so that's
32:12
just not yeah so like that so how do you kind of take how do you solve those same
32:19
problems with when you have if you don't have a hundred K to spend on ads or you
32:24
don't have a hundred thousand person list how do you still drive new people into your to your lead magnets and how
32:30
do you build that list out so you have enough people to launch to in the first place so it's really looking at those
32:36
constraints and I honestly think launching is a form of problem solving because you have all these different
32:41
constraints you have to find creative ways of working around them and that's a lot of what I do as a launch strategist
32:46
it's finding opportunities and plugging the loopholes where like when you
32:52
straining out essentially so first stage is the most important stage that's when you're kind of mapping everything out
32:57
and building your strategy and then you're in the launch itself it's kind of a little bit easier once you have
33:05
everything set up during the launch I think it's the most important thing is social listening seeing how your
33:11
messaging is landing seeing how people are responding and then being an active part of the launch so like responding to those emails that
33:18
are coming in without actual genuine answers and seeing that like are people
33:23
what are people pushing back on are they pushing back on on cost and that means
33:29
you may not be communicating the value clear enough and that means you can you can either go in your
33:34
launch and optimize some of the coffee for later stages or you can respond with the right kind of coffee to alleviate
33:41
some of those fears mid lunch or you can just file that away and fix that the next time so during the launch itself I
33:47
think your role is to be present and be engaged and then you move on so sort of
33:54
the next stage where it's post launch and that's when you're kind of you're downloading all of that data and looking
33:59
at like what kind of subject lines are resonating the most what can what hooks are working on your sales pages and this
34:05
is you can do this yourself you don't have to do this with the launch strategy it'll just take a lot more time but and
34:12
that's really why I wanted to kind of create something that would guide people through the process that really was the thinking behind the A to Z launch posts
34:20
that I've written and that I will like link to you guys so you can have it as a PDF and it was also the thinking behind
34:26
creating the conversion kits from the deck so that people can actually walk through this process and this stuff I stuff wait and yeah that's essentially
34:33
it it's really it's just really it's a really simple concept essentially it's fixing profit so it's taking a
34:40
problem-solving and experimental approach to your launches so that you can improve them every single time scientific method so if I'm going back
34:54
to the website copy framework I mean I'm doing him if I'm doing mvl and I'm a
34:59
launch so would you create a funnel or do something like a traditional lead
35:05
magnet or a webinar what is something not trying to get free for me but if I'm
35:13
launching a product I'm a coach or a consultant I mean do you recommend they start with just the regular lead magnet
35:19
or a webinar a very simple webinar Facebook like that no so I would I would
35:27
first ask like if the very first thing you need is a list because if you like okay I'm gonna I'm gonna like map it out
35:34
sort of here so like are there enough people on your list who fit your ideal high-end avatar so if it's a yes then
35:40
where are they are they problem aware are they unaware wherever they are and the length and if depending on that
35:46
that's how long your nurture sequence and your emails and then your shell sequence will be if it's a no if they're
35:52
not enough people on your list who fit your ideal client avatar will education help them get there if it's a yes then
35:59
you need to then you need to maybe look into webinars and that's when the Facebook lives and you'd have a longer
36:04
launch model if it's a no then you have to go back to your list building so I know the size of your list is going to
36:10
depend on what are your goals for that launch are so going back to that 0.5% conversion numbers if you want to sell
36:17
so if you have 5,000 people on your list and you sell a point five I think that's
36:25
I'm not great at math I just enjoyed it a lot whatever that is so my calculator
36:30
network yeah 25 okay you said 5,000
36:36
which I don't know how many people watching this have 5,000 but okay okay
36:44
so yeah okay I did I came with 250 so it's point oh five nine point five okay
36:50
yeah yeah yeah so I guess if you have a
36:56
list and maybe they're not there you could yeah in them an email like here's
37:01
a webinar I'm gonna talk about you know my product and kind of go from there
37:08
yeah and like I mean I really like to use that point five percent as um as a baseline figure so you usually if most
37:14
people I feel like and I hope can you hear that noise there's something back
37:21
there but I got a fan going myself so okay cuz like they're out in the neighborhood would leave flowers sorry
37:26
about that okay if you so I like to think at that point five percent figure as as a baseline figure most people with
37:33
small lists are like if you have a healthy list and it's engaged and people are actually opening your emails and you
37:39
have that two-way dialogue happening your conversion rate is going to be way higher than a point five percent but point five is the sort of baseline
37:46
metric I like to use while planning yeah it's it's below industry average it's
37:51
like the like the industry average is one percent conversion usually yeah okay okay yeah so it's yeah the industry
37:58
average is one percent so you're you're choosing point five to kind of a buffer between yeah okay so
38:07
now are you creating a product or service around that Minimum Viable Product
38:13
it's funny like when I when I started my business I started off as an outdoor copywriter and I ended up actually doing
38:20
more launch copy than anything else so it just kind of happened organically and eventually I had to update my branding
38:25
to match what I was actually doing it's the same situation here where I've been doing these minimum viable launches for clients I just never put a name to it so
38:32
now I just need to name on it yeah so we're working on that we're gonna have a few blog posts coming out I am talking
38:38
about it now on podcasts and things like that in the trademark pending so hopefully all of that's gonna be on the
38:44
website it is our process it's not something that I kind of just pulled out of nowhere because it sounds catchy
38:49
it's just formalizing our process one and something that we've been doing for the past couple years are you gonna do a
38:56
course around it or I hate courses yeah I'm not a course person I don't think I
39:02
don't think I want to ever be doing courses I don't know if I should be
39:08
saying never but we'll see I defer everybody I know it's definitely not for everybody I don't find that I
39:14
benefit from courses myself I like being able to do things and then learn from them I'm not I wasn't great at school
39:22
either because I hated being lectured to like I had to play with things and figure it out myself so I don't see
39:27
myself doing Coast courses but I have been asked a few times recently about
39:33
coaching packages so I might I might consider that and yeah I was just
39:40
wearing how are you gonna deliver the concept and the process to people in the future like they're gonna be through a
39:47
coaching package or okay okay and I think this isn't a process that lends
39:52
itself well to courses because it's very much about it's very applied and it's
39:59
about learning certain problem-solving skills that can only really be done by practice so I don't see of course in the
40:04
future I agree and I've had people to kind of say you know are you gonna do course with you know basically website
40:09
copy framework and I just don't see how it it fits but coaching 101
40:14
yeah I can see that or even the the de-rate type thing that Tarzan does that
40:21
was suggested to him like that's actually a pretty good idea so half a day maybe you come with all the
40:27
information we kind of go through it anyway that that maybe down the road I'm just trying to figure out different ways
40:33
to to get it in the hands of people and to help people launch their way you know
40:38
there's a lot of consultants out there maybe you can't afford a good copywriter so they you know they need to help you
40:45
know just like you know different stage of business you know some that will do this now and you make a lot of money and
40:52
the next time you could hire a few writers so hey I really appreciate it
40:58
fantastic conversation I learned about launches a little bit more obviously I've only seen one side of it that's
41:05
usually getting the emails from somebody about signing up for a course I have
41:10
I told Tarzan I had to stop reading your emails because I end up buying something and so anyway that that some of these
41:19
people are really good with their emails like Tarzan being one of them I took Shanti scores last year on quiz finals
41:25
yeah so you know I've got to make me not
41:30
buy courses and now people are saying okay during this time we're gonna make this course free see excel has come out
41:37
one Atrios has come out of blogging for businesses free for now we'll see how long that lasts so she's doing some
41:47
stuff - yeah right now I'm not sure what all now before I close this down
41:52
certainly was nice actually see and talk to you for the first time but I noticed
41:57
something on your wrist there when you had your hands up in the air and I think I saw something about it on Facebook do
42:03
you have a tattoo on your hand your arm well it's a very faded copywriter contest - it's like how come at last
42:11
ya know it's one of those like it's the ones that kids use where you know oh so
42:17
you didn't get the permanent one no I think it was just her Jill and I think
42:23
Alison I draw yeah I've got one uh yeah
42:28
somewhere that most people will never see him like Rob yeah I saw the video of
42:35
them going to get the tattoo I thought maybe maybe you I didn't know they did tip tattoos that's cool yeah
42:41
they gave all of us attempt at suits everybody else huh okay
42:46
is Kyra really tall she is really tall she is super tall and yeah and Rob is
42:53
kinda short so it's great yeah if she's like six foot or something man she I don't know yeah I think I saw her post
43:02
five ten five six five eleven something like that and I heard she's a hugger so
43:07
she's definitely Kyra hug is a hugger yeah isn't that the most appropriate name for her
43:13
um so I expect if I ever meet her one time I'll get a hug well thanks everybody for listening to
43:20
us geek out about copyrighting and talking about lunches launches from a bonafide launch specialist and thanks
43:28
for coming on him on appreciate your time thank you for having me this was so much
43:34
fun all right thanks for joining us on the copy chat show we'll be back for the next time I'm
43:43
still working on my outro so anyway everybody have a good day
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