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Building the Robinhood For Private Markets with Sandhill's Ali Moiz | Bullish Studio Podcast
Oct 31, 2023
Private markets aren't working. But who is going to fix this system?
In an all new episode of the Bullish Studio Podcast, Bullish Studio CEO Brian Hanly sits down with Ali Moiz, the mind behind Sandhill Markets.
As their co-founder and CEO, Ali is on a mission to democratize private markets. How? By building a place where everyday investors have the ability to go and buy shares of pre-IPO companies - from SpaceX, to Notion, to Stripe, to Epic Games.
Brian and Ali chat about the Sandhill Markets CEO's experience as an entrepreneur, his latest venture with Sandhill, the evolution of private markets, auction livestreams, transparency, the regulatory landscape, the need for tools on the private side, and the exciting possibilities for this space in the future.
Follow Ali on Twitter: https://x.com/ali_moiz?s=20
Visit Sandhill Markets website: https://sandhillmarkets.com/
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Show More Show Less View Video Transcript
0:00
this is how people want to engage they
0:03
kind of want to see how financial
0:04
markets work right you know why is the
0:06
price the way it is am I overpaying like
0:09
am I underpaying how do I know I can
0:11
trust you so all of those questions go
0:13
away by putting a very open transparent
0:22
process hi my name is Brian Hanley the
0:24
CEO of bullish Studio welcome back to
0:26
another episode of the bullish Studio
0:28
podcast today I am joined by CEO and
0:31
co-founder of Sand Hill markets Ali
0:34
Moise Ali is creating the Robin Hood for
0:37
private markets the ability for everyday
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investors to go and buy shares of
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pre-ipo companies these are your
0:44
spacex's your Notions your air tables
0:46
epic games of the world Ali and I speak
0:49
about his experience as an entrepreneur
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starting companies exiting them and now
0:53
onto his new Journey sandill where he's
0:55
helping democratize private markets for
0:57
everyday investors please enjoy my
0:59
conversation with ol and make sure that
1:01
you're subscribed to the bullish studio
1:02
YouTube Channel shoot us a comment let
1:04
us know what you think and that you're
1:05
subscribed wherever you get your
1:07
podcasts Alie thank you very much for
1:09
joining us on the bullish Studio podcast
1:11
it's great to have you um we just got
1:13
off of a wild auction um for epic games
1:16
I guess you know to kick off you want to
1:18
just tell us a little bit about what
1:19
happened yeah I'm still catching my
1:20
breath a little bit yeah uh we do we do
1:24
these live streams right so Sanel
1:25
markets does uh auctions for pre IPO
1:29
secondaries right we democratizing
1:30
access to investing in sort of
1:32
institutional pre-ipo startups right
1:35
like stripe and data breaks and epic
1:38
games uh and notion and at the end of
1:42
every auction uh they last about a week
1:44
we do a live stream uh where the
1:47
audience can tune in talk to us and we
1:49
shout out people bidding live on stream
1:52
we usually have like a VC or a special
1:54
guest uh as well to chime in and uh
1:57
these things last for about hour they're
2:00
supposed to last an hour this one went
2:01
two hours because the auction didn't end
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it just kept going in overtime and I
2:06
think they were I get the exact number
2:08
but hundreds of bids in just the last 10
2:11
minutes alone it's amazing so yeah I
2:13
guess like you know knowing the live
2:15
stream element of what you're doing in
2:16
the preo can you tell us a little bit
2:18
about your history I know you started a
2:20
company in the live streaming space can
2:21
you tell us a little bit about what what
2:23
got you into live streaming and video
2:25
and then ultimately into the private
2:26
markets so I've done I've done two two
2:28
startups before this uh exited um both
2:32
of them were connected to video gaming
2:35
because I played too many video games as
2:38
a kid growing up this is why I have
2:40
these um and so the last startup was a
2:43
company called streamlab started its
2:45
life as something else went through a
2:46
few few different pivots Esports and
2:49
other things but um gaming was like a
2:52
Common Thread and we ended up uh in the
2:55
uh twitch space the early days of twitch
2:59
uh which if you know is a very popular
3:01
live streaming platform for for video
3:03
games uh bought by Amazon uh few years
3:06
ago and uh uh we build tools for Content
3:09
creators on Twitch right so the people
3:11
who are streaming themselves playing
3:13
video games so typically professional
3:16
Gamers Esports players entertainers or
3:20
just playing video games and uh we build
3:22
tools for these people to stream to
3:24
monetize Their audience to engage so
3:27
everything from sort of desktop to video
3:29
um streaming tools uh to composite
3:32
create your video in your machine and
3:33
then send it to Twitch for consumption
3:36
uh monetization tools to like let
3:38
viewers tip you uh and uh for you to
3:41
earn that Revenue so I think the company
3:44
had
3:46
uh back when I left was close to about
3:48
20 million streamers wow using uh on the
3:51
platform we paid out over 100 million a
3:54
year in uh payouts to creators to date I
3:58
think streamlabs has paid out over a
3:59
billion
4:00
in like cash like not funny money not
4:03
not a crypto coin this is like old
4:05
school PayPal
4:07
cash yeah that's amazing so then you
4:10
exited that company and then started
4:12
sandill so tell me a little bit about
4:14
you know what inspired the move towards
4:16
Sand Hill previously known as stons yeah
4:18
so that that company was acquired by
4:20
Logitech um right before the pandemic I
4:23
want to say like a year 6 months before
4:26
about a year maybe um I got more
4:30
involved in Angel Investing as a lot of
4:32
Founders do when they exit a business
4:34
you know they they take the money they
4:37
made and they they they waste it on
4:39
Angel Investing which is what I did it
4:41
takes about 10 years to know if you're
4:42
any good at right um so I started doing
4:46
that did did some good deals uh the but
4:50
but the the timeline is so long right
4:52
like you have to wait a decade right for
4:55
any exits to like
4:57
materialize um but in the process I also
5:01
did some late stage deals right so I
5:02
invested in Airbnb pre IO and that that
5:06
was like a significant multiple in less
5:11
than two years right and so I was like
5:13
huh this is cool you can get startup
5:16
returns without the startup timelines
5:18
right um and and that's what we're doing
5:20
at sandill right we started something
5:22
else also startup investing related but
5:25
sandill is sort of a mix of like Angel
5:27
Investing as a hobby and my live
5:29
streaming background with twitch and
5:31
sort of engagement at scale we are
5:34
trying to get individuals into
5:36
institutional deals like in a nutshell
5:38
we get individual smaller accredited
5:41
investors into these pre-ipo big giant
5:44
institutional deals that are like
5:46
hundreds of millions of dollars yeah and
5:48
previously if I'm an accredited investor
5:50
and I want to invest in a startup this
5:52
has always been from my experience has
5:54
been a pretty like you know dark corner
5:56
kind of part of the world you got to get
5:57
on the phone and talk to somebody you
5:59
got to have a million dollars to put to
6:00
work and talk to me a little bit about
6:03
kind of this democratization and
6:04
bringing it all online I mean what what
6:06
what do you think why do you think it's
6:07
taken so long for this to actually get
6:09
onto the internet and I think you guys
6:11
appear to be creating one of the first
6:12
like live bidding environments for these
6:14
shares can you just explain a little bit
6:16
about why this might not have existed
6:19
and yeah your opportunity so we talk
6:21
about the before and the after right so
6:23
the so before there were ways to get
6:25
into these deals right so you had to
6:28
know a seller right you had to be
6:30
already close to the company or the
6:32
founders uh so you had to know people in
6:35
the companies you were interested in
6:36
buying right that's typically how you
6:38
got into these deals and you needed to
6:40
have seven figure checks right so that
6:42
typically means the universe of people
6:44
who do that is very small uh seven
6:47
figures into individual deal seven or
6:49
eight right um so you're a fund you're a
6:52
giant family office ultra high net worth
6:56
where you can afford to not just take a
6:58
portion of your portfolio and put it
7:00
into Arts but each deal within that Arts
7:03
portfolio is like seven or eight figures
7:05
right so we're talking like you got to
7:07
be a family office with hundreds of
7:08
millions of dollars right at that point
7:11
so um that was the before now the in the
7:14
last few years you know there's there's
7:16
some platforms that have made it easier
7:19
right so they've lowered the bar to get
7:21
into some of these deals um so Forge
7:24
it's a publicly traded company uh on the
7:26
New York Stock Exchange is sort of a
7:28
good example equity and other z uh Hive
7:32
um where now you know you can get in for
7:35
like 50k 100K into but that's generally
7:38
the minimum uh into uh the really
7:42
interesting highest in demand deals
7:44
right like I'm going to call it the top
7:46
25 right by market cap on the private
7:49
side right so typically to get into
7:50
those you still need that 100K check
7:54
right um just because there's so much
7:56
demand and they're so competitive right
7:59
um um we uh in price Discovery sort of a
8:03
black box right so somebody comes to you
8:06
hey like I have this at 70 bucks a share
8:09
how do you know if that's the right
8:11
price right so the process is broken
8:14
sort of it's a little bit of a black box
8:16
you kind of have to trust Brokers or you
8:18
know you're dealing with um so that that
8:22
was the before the after is we've taken
8:25
those 100K minimums and you can get you
8:27
could do some of these deals with us for
8:28
like $1,000 $2,000 right we've had
8:32
people invest into stripe into uh a lot
8:36
of these names for like really low
8:37
minimums and we do auctions so that this
8:41
everyone can kind of see why the price
8:43
is what it is right it started at zero
8:46
and say the price ends up we did a data
8:48
braks auction price ended up at 70 and
8:50
if you watch the whole thing over 4 days
8:52
you could see the price going from a
8:54
dollar to 70 and who bid what where
8:56
amazing um so it's very open M and uh we
9:01
and it's also very engaging right like
9:03
this is how people want to engage they
9:06
kind of want to see how financial
9:07
markets work right you know why is the
9:09
price the way it is am I overpaying like
9:12
am I underpaying how do I know I can
9:14
trust you so all of those questions go
9:16
away by putting a very open transparent
9:18
process I love it and I think the the
9:20
auction element is definitely a very
9:22
exciting and engaging area I mean we
9:23
were talking about just the early days
9:25
of auctions and still today there's real
9:27
estate auctions happening in person with
9:29
the gavs and a man screaming um so I
9:32
guess can you talk a little bit about
9:33
like what's to come like what other
9:35
companies are you looking to you know
9:37
allow anybody to buy shares in um yeah
9:39
what else is coming up um you know I
9:42
mean Wall Street started with auctions
9:45
right so the history of Wall Street is
9:47
people would get together on a Thursday
9:49
at someone's office actually on Wall
9:52
Street and there would be an auction
9:54
right that's how like 200 years ago or
9:56
whatever uh these things start 250 years
9:58
ago ago these things started and um so
10:02
auctions are at the heart of all
10:04
functioning markets whether it's real
10:06
estate car Securities you know Pokemon
10:09
Collectibles or
10:10
whatever and uh we just hope to expand
10:14
all sort of the auctions available on
10:16
the platform generally we want really
10:18
good companies that people like that
10:20
have best-in-class products that are
10:22
category winners so you know we've had
10:24
like SpaceX open AI stripe data brakes
10:28
um epic games
10:30
ripling um uh jeez what am I missing
10:34
epic games just in the last few weeks
10:36
right these are names like on the
10:38
platform transacted in the last few
10:40
weeks right um various stages of closing
10:43
we we're going to keep playing with both
10:44
the format because it's very fun it's
10:46
high engagement it's very transparent
10:49
and buyer friendly um um and we're also
10:53
going to expand the number of names
10:55
right so like really securing Supply
10:57
bringing it to the platform form for the
10:59
names people care about is like half the
11:01
battle right right and I I guess then to
11:03
that point if you're a employee at one
11:06
of these companies you you guys are
11:08
going to those employees and saying hey
11:10
look I can actually help you get liquid
11:12
on these shares and then you bring them
11:13
out to auctions is that generally how
11:15
this works got it nice so if you are I
11:18
guess one of those employees looking for
11:20
some liquidity call up San Hill and uh
11:22
there'll be an auction is that the idea
11:24
like will a another kind of like um you
11:26
know if if hypothetically an employee
11:28
shows up from
11:29
uh epic games tomorrow would you in
11:31
theory create another auction for them
11:33
like next week or how do you how are you
11:35
thinking about that we would um the
11:37
model is is evolving we we only have one
11:39
auction at a time today but we're going
11:42
to have multiple auctions you know uh
11:44
running at the same time uh uh soon
11:48
right and and that is the model right so
11:51
like if um somebody from epic games an
11:53
employee or like an early investor right
11:55
we have investors also selling like a
11:57
seat stage investor now has a,x on their
12:01
epic games investment and the company
12:03
hasn't ipoed yet they want to take some
12:05
some of the chips off the table not sell
12:07
the whole position but you know sell a
12:09
small portion of it to return money to
12:11
LPS to realize some of the gains to Der
12:13
risk a little bit same for employees
12:16
they want to pay for a house a down
12:17
payment get married pay off student debt
12:19
like these companies are staying private
12:21
fundamentally companies are staying
12:23
private longer and longer and longer
12:25
right and so it allows investors and
12:27
early employees um employees and early
12:30
investors to sort of drisk and get
12:32
liquidity um you know famous example is
12:35
AOL went when public they raised 10
12:37
million at a 70 Post in their IPO and
12:40
like that's a until like like last year
12:43
that was a seed Dr right yeah right and
12:45
so like if and you talk to any Banker
12:47
right you call up Goldman or Morgan or
12:49
whatever and they'll be like you can't
12:51
really go public these days unless
12:52
you're in the sort of 5 10 billion
12:55
Market Gap minimum right is like you
12:59
could stay private so much longer you
13:01
raise money private also the costs of
13:03
going public are much higher so like
13:04
those two things put together or just
13:06
companies staying private
13:08
longer um and hence the need for
13:10
liquidity right right I mean employees
13:13
can't really work somewhere for 15 years
13:15
and not see a dollar on their Equity
13:17
right and is I guess is your vision then
13:19
to become the like stock market like a
13:21
NASDAQ or an i for private markets is
13:24
that kind of the vision about it and
13:25
then does that involve like can you talk
13:27
a little bit about the regulat component
13:29
I know obviously investing in private
13:31
companies has been typically you know um
13:34
only allowed for accredited investors
13:36
talk a little bit about I guess like
13:38
what requirements you guys are you know
13:40
going getting or certifications or
13:43
things like that is it's a it's a highly
13:44
regulated space right um so there's a
13:47
lot of things we need to do and
13:49
structural things and lawyers have to
13:51
like approve
13:52
everything um uh and yeah I mean this is
13:56
a NASDAQ for private markets the funny
13:57
thing is NASDAQ actually acquired a
13:59
company uh 10 years ago and they have
14:02
their own nastc for private markets
14:04
haven't heard too much about it yeah um
14:08
but directionally I mean that's the
14:10
vision right is because companies are
14:12
staying private longer a lot of the
14:13
tooling that exists on the public
14:15
markets now needs to exist on the
14:17
private side right that's it's that
14:18
simple it makes sense um from a
14:21
regulatory standpoint yeah like this is
14:24
this is regulated so we are in ER today
14:26
it's an exempt reporting advisor MH so
14:29
we advise the private funds and spvs
14:31
that people invest into so structurally
14:33
when the auctions end everyone pays one
14:36
same price which is U it's a modified
14:39
Dutch auction people go into an SPV um
14:42
and we have to do filings and Reporting
14:44
it's it's typically reg d506 C uh we do
14:47
all of that and then um the SPV uh is is
14:51
what owns the shares of of of the
14:53
company right epic games um in the
14:55
future we may have other things you know
14:57
broker dealer ATS other ways for people
15:00
to like trade directly get out of
15:03
positions get liquid uh but it it is a
15:06
complex legal framework got it that's
15:08
great well I guess yeah if there's
15:10
anything I guess where can people find
15:11
Sand Hill what's coming up tell us yeah
15:13
a little bit about where we can find you
15:15
as we wrap up yeah I'm on Twitter um
15:18
alior Mo you can go to our website
15:20
Sandhill markets.com
15:22
um and uh those are those are generally
15:25
the best ways to get in touch with us
15:26
yeah great well Oli thank you very much
15:28
for joining us and uh tune in for the
15:29
next Sand Hill auction uh hopefully next
15:32
week right yeah next week every week
15:34
every week every week cool thanks again
15:36
olly and uh we'll see you soon yeah
15:37
thank you thank you so much for having
15:48
me
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