It's a Job Searching for Jobs!! | The Reschool'd Podcast

Welcome to the reschooled podcast, the show that discusses all the things that schools may have missed with your host, A.J. Kootie and Jason Gordon

Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the show. We are the reschooled podcast, the show that discusses the things that schools may not have prepared you for

As always, I'm A.J. sitting across me, Jason. Jason, how you doing today? Oh, I'm killing it, AJ

It's been a great week. I hear you. It's been a cold week

Yeah, it is. Did you get snow the other day, by the way? Yeah, came through

You know, it didn't last long, you know, in the South. I was about to say

doesn't stick for very long. You get sloped. For those you may have not heard, you know, past episodes

we live in the South, so snow's big for us. Snow shuts down everything

You don't want to take a test? You know, it melts immediately. It turns to slodgy ice, you know, if you get, you know

that sub-32 weather for a day or so, yeah, you end up with a messy scenario, dangerous

Yeah, but it was fun. My kid loved it, so. Yeah, did they make a snowman? They did, and the base of it is still in our yard right now still

All mixed up with grass and dirt because it's not. It's got a bunch of pine straw all over it

Today, we are going to be going into the seventh chapter of the general career series

and we're going to be talking about where to look for jobs. So we've talked about all the things about, you know, resume, cover letter, interview

LinkedIn, but I think it's really important for us to talk about where just to look for the

job so we can get to those points. So does that sound good to you? Absolutely. Before we do

let remind everybody, check us out on the social media handles. That's Reschooled Pod on Facebook

Instagram, YouTube, LinkedIn, all those things. But visit our website as well. We want you guys to

drop us messages so we can, you know, get information from you about what you think about our stuff

what you want to hear in the future, topics that we haven't covered any gaps you see there

because we're here for you guys. Absolutely. Well, let's get in our quick question today then

And still dealing with where to look for a job. How did you go get your first professional job

Well, honestly, I didn't have my first professional job until I got to law school

I went all the way through college doing the waiting tables retail thing

I did do some like banquet set up and stuff like that as, you know, contractor gig stuff

but mostly waiting tables are doing some bartending there later in my college career

So in, you know, law school, they had a kind of formalized program where you, you know

search for law firms or employers that are looking for legal interns or clerks or whatever type scenario

So I never, early on, I miss that whole boat of being proactive going out there

and finding opportunities, generating an opportunity for yourself. It took a structured program like that to get me in that zone

And, you know, that's kind of what I'm hoping, I think you are as well, that we're hoping to cut off here for our listeners

that they don't fall into that same trap of just waiting for a structured program

waiting for something to happen for them, that you've got to go out there and you've got to create the opportunities for yourself

So with that being said, let me throw it back at you. What about you? When was your first professional job

I'm still at my first professional job. Really? Yeah, professional-wise, so as soon as I graduated a master's program, I started teaching

And, you know, the master's program where I graduated from, which was the National Championship UGA dogs

They win it in basketball or something? No, they won it in football

We may have lost all of our Bama fans, but it's okay. So when I graduated there, and granted, as I was going through the program, they did a really good job at like job fairs, putting on job fairs to recruit. And I had some meetings with some CPA firms, but I knew CPA firm is not what I wanted to do. Like I didn't want to go to Deloitte or I didn't want to. I didn't, that was just not my plan. CPA was never in the plans for me when I was going through accounting. It was always to teach. And naturally teach, you know, the teaching profession, the college profession, academia was not as

these job fairs. So it didn't do a whole lot of good for me. But when I finished and I graduated

I'd applied for a couple colleges around the area, for a few colleges around the area

um, as an adjunct. And the one that I'm at now, the one we're both at now, uh, contacted me

And I, uh, taught two semesters of adjunct before they brought me on full time. And, uh, yeah

it was, it was just in, and honestly, I don't, I don't even remember like putting almost not

putting a whole lot of effort into this one. Like I don't remember even, that's how bad it was

I don't even remember applying for this one. I just remember getting contacted. Now, I may have

put my resume on a database and they found it. You know, so you and I both, I guess, fell into that

scenario early on, right? You found a career position and it worked out for you. And things

went pretty well for me. You know, later on, I started being more proactive, beating the street

and finding opportunities. You know, I had a couple of different jobs all through law school

After that, I joined the Army, spent a few years, got out, practiced lawsome on my own

and then, you know, got this teaching shop when I was back at a

I did a law degree. Then I went to an MBA program after I got out of the military

Then later on, I did a LLM in a Masters of Transactional Law

type scenario. So I was always in a place where they had these structured programs

So we're going to talk about that, right? But what we really need to reinforce for our students is don't depend on these

Yeah. Okay. Use them to the extent that they're advantaged for you, to the extent that they create an opportunity, yes

Take advantage of them. That's one of huge advantages of being in school. But at the same time, you on your own, without the help of the school, without going through these structured programs of organized career conferences, organized on-campus interviews, things like that, you can go out there and create opportunities for yourself, particularly in big business, right

There's a timeline to follow. There are procedures. There are ways, small business, right

There are ways to go out there and network and to find these opportunities. So with that being said, why don't we jump in there

Yeah, I think the common theme for this is that there's just a lot of opportunities

There's a lot of options out there for you. And that's what hopefully we're going to get through to you today

And right now, there are probably more options than ever given the change in the job environment

Well, that's a perfect segue to the first question I'm going to pose to you. And that is, how is the job market changed

Like, it's changed a lot. You know, we're recording, this is going to air in March

I say we're recording it. late January. The job market, we've never seen anything like this in recent history. We have a job

boom in terms of there is so much demand for labor and it's finally pushing up salaries, right

Employers are getting the gist that they're not going to be able to retain talented employees without

moving up their pay scale. I mean, it, you know, that obviously causes inflation across the board

but you are starting to see that now in terms of what jobs are paying the benefits that they have to offer

But on the other side of the coin, things are going so well for people by and large

And a lot of that is by virtue of government spending and things like that, the benefits that come to people

So they have more options, right? There is no sense of urgency or necessity to go out there and take the first job that comes

So you've got what we're calling now the great resignation. People are leaving their jobs for either

to start their own business or to do gig work, right? This, you know, work on your own on short-term projects, that type of thing

the whole independent contractor industry that's going out there. Right. So, and people are just downsizing their lifestyle to, you know, live within their means

and they don't need to work as much, right, type scenario. So that, you know, it is a little scary, though

You know if you look way back to that John Steinbeck I believe it was a quote where he said you know no civilized nation has ever been able to survive the comfort of its people That a paraphrase obviously but getting to the point that things are so good for most people in terms of what they have right

Yeah. That their motivation, their drive to accomplish is diminishing largely, you know, and that that hurts society overall, right

type scenario. Now, I'm not going to get into some, you know, economics argument about, you know

total productivity and stuff like that. But what that has played out to in this scenario is right now

the current time, we've gone from a period where just a few years back where it's very difficult

to find a job. So that was an employer's market. Now it is an employee's market, right

there's more options out there than you can imagine. So with that being said, you got more leverage now

And I think that's going to stay this way for the next year or two. So now it's the time to secure that dream job

to secure that opportunity to move up. Now, is it still going to require all the work and effort associated with

you know, establishing yourself and really, you know, charging forward towards what you want in life

Sure. no question it is but now you have that initial opportunity

you know I talk a lot about opportunity that opportunity generation then there's the recognition and then there's the

exploitation all the recognition and exploitation aspects are still as hard as ever

but the opportunity generation has never at least in my lifetime been easier

yeah I would say and I'm going to look at it from more of a because you know

the way you were explaining it was more from a micro level and the the recency, you know, it's, you know, a couple years ago has changed that much

I'm going to look at it more from a macro level, you know, a couple decades ago

And I know it's, you know, recency is going to give you a lot more accuracy, but you can understand the direction and how things have changed majorly, if that's a word

when it comes to job market. And, I mean, think about it. Back in the day, when you, the saying used to be pound the pavement to find your job

You know, you would go cold calling or you would go knock on doors. You'd be given, you know, your hard copy resume to businesses, not even known if they're hiring

Now, you don't do that at all. You post your resume on a couple websites

There's other websites that you go to to find specific jobs that are being, you know, hired for specific companies

You can send them directly to that. But you don't have that anymore where you're actually, you're pounding the digital pavement

You're not doing it physically. And that's a huge thing. Well, I'm going to divert from your line of thinking there a little bit

I'm going to argue that people aren't doing it, but they should be

Yeah. You know, there are two segments. Still, 50% of employees in the United States are hired in small business

And these small businesses are not posting their jobs. that approximately 80% of jobs in the United States

that are posted every year are never publicly posted. I did not know that

That's in the private market. And that doesn't include government because all government jobs have to be posted, right? Yeah

But on the private market side, and it's a little less than 80%

it's about 78% was like last year's statistics or whatever, but that's still four out of five jobs that are created

are never publicly posted. So they're hired through a number of ways

big company, we've talked about this before in other episodes, big companies primarily hire

through one of two methods. New recent hires without experience, they hire through the structured programs

their internship programs, and they generally only recruit through academic programs. Okay, so they go to schools, they establish relationships, they go to these large career

conferences, things, and they get people into this internship pipeline. You get the internship

It's almost a substantial search. that you're going to get a job offer coming out

And that's how most people in Fortune 500 big companies start their career in the company

But the other way is for experienced hires, they actually post it publicly

And they get what we call lateral transfers. And they do this through recruiters, right

So they're external recruiters. These are not the internal recruiters in the HR office

These people manage those external recruiters. So they hire these recruiters outside

that do the recruiting process, they list the jobs on LinkedIn or simply hired or indeed

or monster or any of these pipelines, right? That's just a fishing expedition

They don't do as much of that as you would think. They just put it out there for general awareness

But they are more like spearfishing, right? They are searching actively, generally through LinkedIn, right

90% of them use LinkedIn. But they go out and find these specific candidates for the job

and they try to get up a pool that they recommend to the company, company interviews these

If they hire anybody, the recruiter gets compensated as a percentage of whatever their first year salary is

Okay, so that's the model for big companies, and that's how they bring everybody in

All right. Is it the case sometimes that they'll post a job internally or even externally where the public can see it, right

And you can apply for it. Yeah, but it's very rare. Okay, it's extremely rare, quite frankly

Now, there are the internal postings for just people inside the company

but primarily it's recruiters doing it, and then they make their recommendation to the company

So that's your big Fortune 500 thing, right? Your small company thing, the other 50% of hiring, they never list their job anywhere

They call up schools and see, you know, do you have any interns? They list things on local job boards every now and then

but primarily it is word of mouth. They talk to people within the company already

or people that they are connected to and say, do you know anybody good who can do this

Do you know somebody who has this skill set? And then it is referral like that

Most people who get hired in small, mid-sized businesses, they were the only person who interviewed for the job

You know, I will say, talking about, you know, the referral side, I heard this not too long ago

there's a book and I wish I could remember the name of the book but the whole premise of the book is

if you want a certain job if you're looking for a certain job

hang out with the people who do that job because they're going to

one give you you know you'll be able to talk to them about certain aspects of the job

you can learn a little bit more about the job but they're also going to be the ones that's going to be able to refer you

because they're the ones that's going to be to hear it and so that is a really

like, you know, me being, one, me being in accounting, I don't have a lot of professional accounting friends, I guess you would say

But I had a lot of teaching friends, a lot of academic friends

because just of my background, my dad being in academia to begin with

And so, yeah, I would say that's a huge testament to that statement

and a huge bit of advice for our listeners is if you're wanting a specific job

like if in your mind you're going, I want this job, this is my dream job, hang out with the people who do it

You'll be able to ask them questions and then it could lead to a referral. Absolutely

Networking is still everything. And we talk about that during our networking segment, you know, that we do

But knowing people in the field, it becomes your referral. They're the ones who present you with opportunities, that type of thing

that is that and that's that aspect of beating the street now back to that original thing now that

you say all right well fortune 500 companies you're going to have to go through their programs right

so no need to network there well that's not true yeah right knowing people being connected still

gets your resume to the top of piles it still gets you directly referred after they go through

this whole process right you know narrow down it gets your resume uh dropped in there it gets you that

interview, right? So networking still in those Fortune 500 companies still incredibly huge

Small men's size company, networking and knowing people so that you're the person that they

recommend for the interview when when they get word that, oh, so ABC company is looking for something

there somebody who does this right So back to your point you know in both scenarios in both situations networking hanging out with people who do that job or at least are in that industry honestly means everything

Yeah. Okay. So I guess we need to, you know, we've given the overview now

So how do we take advantage of these structured programs in school

And then how do we go about this whole beat in the street, getting your rest of

a may out there type scenario. Well, I think, you know, looking at it from the while you're in school

So let's start there because that's probably where most of our listeners are at the point in their academic career

Schools do a lot, especially if you go to bigger schools. If you go to bigger schools, they do a ton

I mean, it's the name recognition. Like I said, UGA, we had not only did we have the big four in accounting firms come to our job fair

We also had some of the smaller outside the big four firms come

We had a lot of different major companies that are looking not necessarily for CPAs

but just for accountants in their administration or workers. Take advantage of those

Those are huge, huge opportunities because they put them there for a reason

And most likely if your school is spending a lot of time and resources on these job fairs for you as a student

their name recognition has already built a reputation within these businesses that these businesses want to come recruit you

Like just the name in and of itself is a huge proponent of recruiting and getting you hired

So take advantage of those. Those are absolutely massive programs. And, you know, they offer all kinds of stuff, not just your job recruiting figures

They bring people on campus for informational interviews. They have company speakers come in just to give leadership or mentorship guidance stuff

They set you up sometimes with internships or micro internships, as they call it, these experiential learning things

There are certain classes that are project-based classes that you can take where you do projects for specific companies type things

So all of these together are part of this whole ball of resources that an academic program

gives you. They're just, they're just opportunities in the waiting, right? You just have to go out there and

just make them happen, right? You have to show up, that old Woody Allen thing, right? 90% of success

is showing up. Show up. Take part in these things and opportunities begin to present themselves

So I will say this, you know, education is good. Knowledge is better. Yeah. But the benefits that come

along with formalized education, a structured process of going through a sequential learning process

of, you know, of a topic and getting a degree and whatever, the benefit of the structured

job finding thing that the career centers do for you while you're part of that, that's the

might be the single biggest benefit. I was going to say, too, like we're talking about how important these schools, especially

like I said, larger schools reputation is. and then also how they put in their, you know

implement a job fare for their students and stuff. That could be a point of decision

when you're choosing what college to go to. You may have a college that may be a little bit more expensive

but they do such a good job at job placement because of job fares and stuff like that

versus a cheaper school, like per credit hour, cheaper school, but you don't get that experience

Or in my situation, I went to a, what would be a cheaper school, cheaper in terms of cost school for my undergrad

but then I went to a bigger university for my master's program because I knew at one

I knew I was going to go to the master's program. So I was going to go to a master's program

I just didn't know which one at the time. And I got into UGA and they, you know, they did such a good job

And if it came down to UGA in a smaller school, the job placement by itself would have helped

It would have been worth its weight in gold. So it's definitely something to think about. if you need that aspect, those structured resources, and most people do, right

It's at least additional options for you. Then it should. It should affect your decision as to which program you're going to pursue, whether it's

undergraduate, whether it's master's level, things like that. And sometimes if you know you're going to continue on for a master's program

choosing your undergraduate institution will make a difference there as well. It may not be as easy to get into a high-quality master's program if

the reputation of your undergraduate program is not quite as solid, okay, or is recognized

Even if the quality of education is really good, right, still name recognition means a lot

So that's the school structure. So let's go outside of schooling. Yeah

If you are not using your school resources, how do you create job opportunities

I'm going to jump first and say networking once again is everything

what you said, hanging out with people in that industry or who do that job, that is going to

create opportunities for you. Now, if you're not in the school structured program, do you still

have to have the skills and abilities or requirements or qualifications for the job

Yes, absolutely. And unfortunately, in our system, even if you're the most capable

intelligent human being in the world, sometimes you're not going to get the opportunity for a position unless you have that formalized degree, right? That formalized certification

saying, you know, you've been through this. The one field, I'd say that, well, really two fields where that's an exception is sales and technology

If you can have proof of work, right, in the technology side, then there you go

Right. If you've got sales ability, right, experience type thing, they realize that, you know, learning in the classroom, that type of thing

that is not what builds a good salesman, right? Yeah. It's mainly practice

It's mainly orientation, that type of thing. So anyway, that being said, so, you know, networking and preparing yourself to have the skills to do it

So you network and everything. Next. You know, I don't think there's one specific, I don't think there's another one that is on the line of networking

I think networking by itself is on another tier. It is the top tier when it comes to what you can do outside of the school realm when it comes to getting a job

Now, there's some other, you know, I wouldn't even call them secondary because the ones that we're probably going to talk about is probably doesn't even come to that level

They're more tertiary tier because it's such that big of a gap. But, I mean, the obvious ones is like I was saying earlier

I know you were talking about a lot of them don't post it, but there are postings online. You can keep up with those

You don't have to really rely on the newspaper anymore. There's still a lot of resources that you can find online that's going to give you it note, whether it's going to be something like what monster.com would be one

There's some other ones. I think Glassdoor has some. LinkedIn obviously has some

We've talked about that before. And those are the major ones. You know, there are smaller ones, local-based ones as well, right

There are organizations locally that help you, right? You know, these smaller companies, yeah, they'll probably post a job on their website

but you may not know about the company yet, right? So if you use something like the local chamber of commerce, right

Something like that, then you may, you know, be able to access a local job listing or, you know, just the word of mouth thing that comes

through that professional organization because, you know, they're kind of in the business of helping businesses find the employees and things that they need, right

Yeah. I mean, that's the obvious one. Well, the last one, you know, and it's the one you discounted a little bit earlier

is the beating the street. Yeah, pound the pavement, yeah. I know it, I know it seems crazy today

time. But if you were actually, right, my students will not talk to me on the phone. They will

only email or text. They just, there's this personal talking thing that has disappeared. Well

my generation and the older generation, you know, I'm 40 years old, the, the generation above

me still relies heavily on that personal contact aspect. If you call up a business, okay

and you ask to speak to someone, you've done the research, you identify who you need to speak to

And you simply introduce yourself and tell them who you are and what you've done and what you're looking for, right

And ask them could you please send in your resume in the event they have an opening for something in this position That very professional That very straightforward That creates a connection and starts a conversation Can you take it one

step further and actually show up? Sure. You can do that. I've seen scenarios where people

particularly in professional services firms, where they dress the part, they look professional

they showed up, they introduced themselves to the, you know, attending out front, the secretary or whatever

and asked to speak to somebody, whoever they asked to speak to, came out, shook their hand

you know, introduced themselves, gave them their resume and cover letter, whatever

and said, just I want to stay top of mind in the event that you have an opportunity in the future

because I'm very interested in working here. I've learned a lot about the company, that type of thing

It will almost seem awkward to the person you meet because no one does that anymore

But the people who do almost without fail, get an interview. Yeah, the, you know, you're talking about how the generation, how it's different

You know, the ability to go into a business or to go into anything blind, cold, is a skill in and of itself

Like, to me, I have no problem. And I actually prefer the personal meeting, personal communication where you talk in front of somebody

And having somebody introduced, and I've said this on the other one when I talked to, I think we were doing the

the girlfriend's episode or something, but, you know, I was never somebody to be able to go

I didn't feel confident enough to go up to somebody cold and introduce myself. Now, if somebody introduced me to this person, I could talk for days

And the same thing went with interviews. I felt so uncomfortable going to a business or going up to a person in a business that I've never met before and introducing myself that way

Now, I know it's definitely needed, but it was just one of those uncomfortable things where if somebody introduced me or if I had some kind of in, oh, I was, I was in my

element at that moment because I felt like I could connect with them better when I'm in front of them

But for somebody that, but for some reason, that initial introduction, if I had to do it

I was so afraid of that. It just, it, the anxiety kicked in

Well, you know, it's a skill set you have to develop. Yeah. Right? I mean, just like you start with public speaking and things like toastmasters and things

like that. And these professional selling classes where you go out there and you actually practice hands-on

stuff where you're trying to introduce your. yourself to somebody because to sell somebody on a product, right

It isn't just extolling the virtues of the product to them. It's creating an emotional reaction in the end that makes them think that they need or want that product

How are you going to do that if you haven't at first established some level of rapport or trust in what you're telling them

So being able to sell yourself first is the first step. And it's the same way for looking for a job

when you go out there and your ability to walk into a room, make contact with somebody, establish some level of immediate rapport with them, so that they're willing to listen, they're interested in what you have to say

And then you can start making the case for whatever your skill set is, what you're looking for, that type of thing

And to not ask something of somebody is a huge thing. to make the person feel like it is their decision that they are recognizing a value proposition saying

you know, I could use somebody like you or I know somebody who's looking for somebody just like that, right

For them to feel like they have just come across a resource rather than they need to somehow help you

Yeah. Right. Because, right, that's a losing game, right? There's a finite amount of time, resources, people are guarded, that type of thing

Make yourself a value of you proposition that people can. recognize. But once again, that simply takes practice. And you have their training programs out

there for professional selling and things like that. You can you can get so many resources off

of YouTube, LinkedIn learning, that type of thing. Right. Yeah. But all of these things go, you know

so to sum it all up, right? Your Fortune 500 network like crazy, but go through these structured

programs, whether it's through your school or lateral transfer type scenario. If you're going

mid-sized smaller company, networking is still king, right? Because once again, it's going to be

through a referral that you get the opportunity. But also, keep looking at those job boards

keep looking at those listings, use some of the lesser-known opportunities, you know, to

find out about companies and listings like Chambers of Commerce, even social organizations

right? Things that you're involved in. But lastly, don't be afraid to make that personal

contact. Don't sit behind your keyboard and just shoot out resumes all day long because most of

those, if not all of them, will be deleted. No human being will ever see them. Okay

Well, let's say with like everything in the job market and literally everything, you have to

figure out a way to distinguish yourself and differentiate yourself from the crowd. And if everybody

is sitting behind the keyboard, then the best way to differentiate yourself is to go the other way

and go actually get those personal connections. It's just the same thing. is education. You've got to stand out education-wise. You've got to stand out

every aspect of it if you want the job of your dreams. But you know

especially right now in this market, employers cannot find good employees. If you are willing to say this is the industry I want to be in

this is the career I want, this is the job I want, do the research

find every company within your perceivable ability to go there, right? To

to actually connect with them. Call them. Show up. Try it. Don't just do the standard of

you know, trying to meet people who know somebody. That's good, right? But also

make direct contact and create that opportunity for yourself. Sometimes these companies

they are just beside themselves, like, man, somebody's stopped by that's interested in this

We can really use somebody in this area. Let's think this through. and you may not get an immediate callback, but you might, right

So there you got. That's the best advice I got on the topic

You got anything else you want to throw in there? No, I think we've hit everything that I was thinking of

And I know this is more of your wheelhouse area because, I mean, you're, the amount of involvement

that you have in internships at our school right now, I mean, this is right up your alley

So I was excited to see what you had to say about this kind of stuff. And, you know, I talk to employers

I hear success stories. It's just I have a wealth of information there

And it's not that complicated by and large. It just takes effort

Unfortunately, what I see, and that's what I'm trying to dismay people from right now

being laxidaisical, sit behind that keyboard, or expecting somehow your educational institution to just create the opportunity for you

it just, you know, that's a fool's errand, right? If you want something, go out and make it happen

Don't wait for something or somebody else to make it happen for you

Well, that sounds like a great bit of advice. Hopefully the listeners has helped out the listeners a lot and moving forward

Hopefully this will, and it's hard to say, but hopefully the stuff that we're talking about will last some time before it changes again

And once it changes again, maybe we'll be back and do this episode again to just update it

In a tough job market. In a tougher job market. Yeah, absolutely. Well, before we head out, do you have anything you want to say to listeners

Just reiterate what I said at the very beginning. We want to hear from you guys

Let us know what you want us to talk about because, right, you know, we've got a lot of shared experience

And we know a lot of people who are good resources for this. So if we need guests to come on, we'll do that

But tell us what you want to hear about. you know, follow us on the social media profiles, you know, download us from your favorite

podcasting platform. So once again, you know, we're getting those ytics and moving on up

If you like us, give us five stars, all that good stuff. Awesome. Well, that's been a fun show. Until next time, we hope to see you there

Goodbye. Take care. Thanks for listening to The Reschooled podcast. Be sure to head over toreschool.com for news

and other information on things we're getting into