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Soledad O’Brien Talks New 4-Part Docuseries ‘Black and Missing’ on HBO Max | SWAY’S UNIVERSE
Dec 4, 2021
Award-winning journalist Soledad O’Brien is investigating why national media entities spend so much time covering cases like the late Gabby Petito, but don’t offer the same level of attention for missing Black Americans, especially Black women and girls like Keeshae Jacobs.
O’Brien called into Sway In The Morning to talk about how the series came about and what to expect.
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0:00
there's so many missing people of color
0:03
in the u.s
0:05
african americans remain missing four
0:07
times longer than white americans that
0:10
number is alarming
0:13
it's our job to bring them home
0:17
thank you for calling black and missing
0:18
foundation the police was like how you
0:20
know she just ain't leave the detective
0:23
kept saying she ran away and i'm like
0:25
she didn't run away it was like a punch
0:27
in the face
0:28
when a black person is in distress
0:31
missing it's not a big deal to law
0:34
enforcement because they don't think we
0:36
have much to lose
0:38
our community matters
0:41
absolutely it matters
0:43
this is to me one of the most powerful
0:46
documentary series i've seen in a long
0:48
time
0:50
we have someone i truly admire and
0:52
respect and i'm very proud to have
0:54
worked with her in the past and had her
0:56
on the show
0:57
um before and i love the work that she
0:59
does and i know if she's attached to it
1:01
then something is going to happen
1:03
there's going to be impact this is a
1:05
conversation we've been having
1:07
for a while on this show tens of
1:09
thousands of black girls and the women
1:11
who go missing every year last year that
1:13
figure was nearly 100 000 yet the case
1:15
was hardly ever grabbed any national
1:17
headlines and so our next guest
1:19
broadcast journalist actress writer
1:22
director executive producer i believe i
1:24
just saw her on ghost power book 2 the
1:26
other day
1:28
given a oscar-worthy performance
1:31
[Laughter]
1:37
yes yes indeed true indeed in true
1:39
fashion i want to welcome her back to
1:41
the show and say thank you to her the
1:43
one and only soledad o'brien is back
1:46
with the citizens
1:48
soledad
1:50
hey queen
1:52
nice to talk to you guys yeah i i don't
1:55
know that i put actress on my resume it
1:57
still kind of makes me cringe
1:59
well no you did good i saw you in the
2:01
scene
2:02
and i was like wow i'm about to talk to
2:03
her in a day or two and um and i thought
2:06
it was awesome but uh more importantly i
2:09
think is awesome um what you're doing
2:11
with black and missing
2:13
you know
2:14
that foundation is amazing and those
2:17
women derek and natalie wilson who are
2:19
sisters in law they're incredible and we
2:21
did think
2:23
boy this would be a a great documentary
2:26
if we could embed with them and show the
2:28
world what they do and then of course i
2:30
mean that was three years ago when we
2:32
started this project
2:33
and then of course you know sometimes
2:35
people say to me well the timing is so
2:37
good with all this other coverage of
2:39
missing white girls and you're like yeah
2:42
except the timing is always good you
2:43
know because
2:44
the the the idea of the missing white
2:47
woman syndrome which gwen isil
2:50
who was a friend of mine and a
2:52
correspondent who passed away now
2:53
several years ago um you know she really
2:55
talked about the frenzy that accompanies
2:58
young attractive white usually blonde
3:00
women when they go missing and how
3:02
little of that energy is put behind
3:04
missing people of color
3:07
why is that you and i work in broadcast
3:10
journalism we work for reputable
3:12
platforms how why don't we see more
3:14
coverage about this in your in your
3:16
perspective i think there's a couple of
3:19
issues i think from law enforcement's
3:21
perspective um there is this sense that
3:24
uh
3:25
people have run away that that they
3:27
don't necessarily go into it with the
3:29
same energy and some of that comes about
3:32
because they're not getting the same
3:33
pressure from the media
3:35
why the media i think it's a lot of it
3:37
is just bias it's who do you think is
3:39
attractive who do you think your
3:41
audience cares about who do you think is
3:42
your audience you'd be amazed at the
3:45
number of times i mean i've been in a
3:46
million conversations where people talk
3:48
about wee wee wee and i'm like yeah but
3:50
i'm an afro-latina so like we
3:54
we are not all we when you're talking
3:56
about who the audience is my we is a
3:58
little bit different than your we
4:00
so i think it's bias right i think
4:02
there's a sense that this person is
4:04
really valuable she's attractive it's a
4:06
good back story and this person you know
4:09
so they're missing who cares i don't
4:11
think it's stated overtly but i think
4:13
it's biased a lack of focus by the media
4:16
as you well know means law enforcement
4:18
is sometimes much less likely to feel
4:20
the pressure and i also think
4:22
communities communities have to mobilize
4:25
and motivate around there's somebody
4:27
missing and we all have to care about it
4:28
if you don't have a pressure from the
4:30
community
4:31
that pressure could be used to push both
4:33
the media and law enforcement so it's
4:35
kind of a a triangle of of just feeling
4:39
like maybe these folks aren't valuable
4:41
and and then that becomes uh a slowness
4:44
to have to investigate cases a
4:47
reluctance to think of someone
4:49
as anything more than you know a runaway
4:52
well you know she probably just you know
4:53
moved in with her boyfriend
4:55
you know well even if you are a runaway
4:57
and in many cases it's trafficking
4:59
you're not a runaway per se you know
5:01
it's still terrible and someone should
5:03
be looking for a young person
5:07
okay tracy you want to jump in yeah i do
5:10
so dad i'm so happy to be speaking with
5:12
you um you know when i think about
5:15
what you just mentioned with the media's
5:17
role in this and how especially last
5:20
year with our racial reckoning and we
5:22
saw everyone trying to you know get
5:24
their dni in place etc etc
5:27
and
5:28
so when it comes to this case are you
5:30
seeing different media entities maybe
5:33
have like i don't know internal
5:37
workshopping any type of um
5:40
new guidelines you know what i mean it
5:42
changes to their code of ethics or just
5:46
how they're going to be presenting the
5:48
news to try to
5:50
reverse their role
5:52
in this
5:53
yeah that's such a great question and i
5:55
have not seen anything that is specific
5:58
but i have seen
6:00
many more conversations right so i think
6:02
people are beginning to understand like
6:04
a lot of a lot of things about bias
6:06
right once someone points it out you
6:08
start thinking like oh crap maybe this
6:10
is something that i'm not doing well and
6:12
so i can't tell you the number of
6:14
conversations that i've had uh with
6:16
folks who are very interested in sort of
6:19
saying like you're right this is a
6:20
problem we need to fix it but i haven't
6:22
seen any like specific
6:24
hey here's a new guideline and how we
6:26
have to think about this i think it's
6:28
just people recognizing a blind spot and
6:31
then understanding in the documentary we
6:34
um have a news president former news
6:36
president
6:37
and he's being asked like why are there
6:39
so many
6:41
we tell the story of a young woman who
6:42
goes missing at the same exact time as
6:44
natalie holloway
6:46
and and her sister is watching
6:48
while natalie holloway's case is getting
6:51
all this attention and people are
6:52
getting on planes to go to aruba to help
6:55
search for natalie holloway i was part
6:56
of covering that story
6:58
and and she literally is trying to
7:00
figure out can anybody just do a story
7:02
on on this young woman who's important
7:04
to me who's black and who's missing
7:07
and the news president who's interviewed
7:09
uh says you know race is not a factor
7:11
well that's just bull that's just not
7:14
true let me put it that way so you know
7:16
and i think what ends up happening is
7:18
people are beginning to recognize that i
7:20
thought it was an amazing thing that
7:21
gabby potito's father
7:23
and i'm gonna misquote him a little bit
7:25
just you know um
7:27
but he basically said like you guys
7:29
should be also helping find
7:31
the people who are missing our people of
7:33
color while they were searching for the
7:35
body of his own daughter like even he
7:38
understood and appreciated all the
7:41
coverage and the intensity of the search
7:43
but felt like other people deserve it
7:45
too and so i think when things like that
7:47
happen people begin to realize like this
7:49
is biased and you have to understand why
7:52
it's happening and then work to stop it
7:54
yes so soledad o'brien is with us she's
7:57
the executive producer of the
7:58
documentary series black and missing
7:59
which premieres today at 8pm on hbo max
8:03
and
8:04
citizens i need you to call up and ask
8:06
questions the same way you would when we
8:08
have artists when we have singers when
8:10
we have rappers on the same enthusiasm
8:13
we have when we see drake and
8:16
kanye come together you know offer some
8:19
whatever kind of beef they may have had
8:21
or whatever gossip we may talk about
8:24
that same interest that same engagement
8:26
you have with us on those topics i would
8:29
like for you to have on this topic
8:32
okay black and missing is premiering
8:34
today
8:35
and it's a four-part documentary series
8:37
that follows sisters in law black and
8:39
missing foundation founders derek and
8:41
natalie wilson and they fight an uphill
8:43
battle and this has been constant and
8:45
this has been going on for decades um
8:48
and so soledad o'brien is here with us
8:51
we got joan the line from the atl joe
8:53
graham risings how you doing joe hey joe
8:55
bless and blessed i'm good thank y'all
8:57
for having me on this morning absolutely
9:00
absolutely you got a comment
9:02
absolutely just as a as a a person of
9:05
color of course it's just always
9:06
disheartening when we just be slighted
9:09
yeah i mean when these situations arise
9:11
and it's not
9:12
uncommon i live in atlanta georgia like
9:15
if y'all just seen the news this year
9:17
it's been multiple different
9:19
investigations of a lot of kids being
9:22
found but it's kind of swept under the
9:25
rug like yeah i mean i don't feel like
9:28
it has the same credence
9:30
as again someone not of color
9:33
the same situations arise there was
9:36
multiple investigations and they were
9:38
coming up with
9:39
i would assume a different race of
9:41
children in the in the masses that we've
9:44
been found i think it'll be a lot more
9:46
attention drawn to it so
9:48
more so it's like what can we do more
9:51
proactively as a young as a young black
9:54
man yeah i mean with the platform like
9:56
what can we do on a day-to-day basis
9:58
just to shine more light on this
10:01
such a great question and i think part
10:03
of the answer is deciding that it's
10:06
important i mean i always thought it was
10:07
very interesting that derek and natalie
10:09
talked a lot about the role of the
10:10
community too because the community is
10:13
what pushes media you know sometimes you
10:15
got to shame people right into covering
10:16
something sometimes you gotta embarrass
10:18
them into doing a better investigation
10:20
if you're talking about law enforcement
10:22
so to some degree i think it's been
10:24
amazing to see in certain communities
10:27
that uh the community really tracks
10:30
who's missing kind of within the
10:31
community and then they do a lot of
10:33
coverage of it they they do it online
10:36
they pepper the news organization some
10:38
organ places are really starting to
10:40
cover these stories like have a segment
10:42
literally weekly on who's missing which
10:45
is crazy to me but amazing i mean it's
10:48
sad because you think gosh that's a
10:49
whole lot of people who must be missing
10:51
that it's worthy of doing a segment
10:52
every week and it is
10:54
and so i think that's really happening
10:57
uh with um the community saying this is
10:59
important to us and then everybody else
11:01
decides like oh shoot if it's important
11:02
to them then i guess it has to be
11:04
important to us so i think you could
11:06
gather people and just start asking
11:07
about it hey have you guys heard about
11:09
jane doe she's missing have you heard
11:10
about jasmine smith she's missing and
11:13
from this community and it can be posted
11:15
on social media it can be signs can uh
11:17
get put up and you can volunteer with a
11:19
local organization black and missing is
11:22
always looking for volunteers and in
11:23
atlanta sex trafficking is a huge
11:27
problem so sometimes people who are
11:29
missing and run away with their
11:31
boyfriend are actually being sex
11:33
trafficked right i mean the idea that
11:35
somehow that's not important enough
11:37
because they're considered a runaway is
11:40
is horrifying to me so i i think there
11:42
are lots of things that individual
11:44
people can do by just asking the
11:45
questions and and pushing people
11:49
hey
11:49
joel thanks for your call man i hope
11:51
that was uh informative for you your
11:53
citizen joe thank you
11:56
you know i did a piece
11:58
years ago on on the sex trafficking
12:00
involuntary
12:02
servitude with uh viacom and that was
12:04
one of the things that we found a lot of
12:06
missing women were missing in their
12:08
neighborhood they were right there
12:10
locked in homes and weren't being
12:13
allowed to leave and um the pimp culture
12:16
uh played a major role in a lot of
12:19
missing folks a lot of girls were being
12:21
kidnapped and sent overseas and then
12:23
once that happens
12:25
you just you it's really tremendously
12:27
hard to attract someone down under those
12:30
circumstances but a lot of these crimes
12:32
are taking place right under our noses
12:35
um carlos is on the line from orlando
12:38
carlos how you doing grand rises hey
12:40
carlos
12:42
how you doing everybody good morning hey
12:44
hey
12:47
i got a quick question for soledad what
12:49
do you what do you know about the ariana
12:51
de jesus case out of philadelphia she's
12:53
been missing well actually
12:55
she was found dead and and the gentleman
12:58
actually i'm not going to say gentlemen
13:00
the guy who did it
13:01
he's been missing he's been overseas he
13:03
was on the fbi list i think he was
13:05
arrested at one point but then he was
13:07
let go
13:12
yeah i don't know much about the case
13:13
per se because i haven't covered it but
13:16
it's not all that unusual so i'd only
13:18
know what i've read as a sort of a
13:20
viewer and a listener and a reader as
13:22
opposed to someone who's reported the
13:24
story but listen i think the details of
13:26
the case are not all that unusual in a
13:28
lot of ways and of course there was a
13:31
lot of slowness as well i mean i think
13:33
it fit a lot of the same broad strokes
13:35
that we see when um other young women of
13:39
color go missing so yeah it's still a
13:42
mystery and we know that people of color
13:44
are four times more likely it takes four
13:47
times longer to uh to close the case to
13:50
find them than for white people who are
13:52
missing so there's it's a horrific story
13:55
of course but it's also something i
13:56
think that is not
13:58
it's terrible to say this but it's not
14:00
that surprising right a lot of the
14:02
details match a lot of the other stories
14:04
about people of color who've gone
14:05
missing
14:07
thanks for your call carlos we got aaron
14:09
on the line from cali grand rises aaron
14:11
hi erin
14:14
aaron are you there grand rising van
14:17
rising hey hey
14:19
um yeah so my question was is to soledad
14:23
have you um
14:25
seen or
14:26
saw any evidence to the fact that we see
14:28
a heightened uh police
14:31
presence in our communities yet when you
14:33
speak on this subject there's usually no
14:35
answers
14:37
yeah that's such a great question and
14:39
you know when so when we were shooting
14:40
this documentary um at one point we
14:43
asked the patrolmen who were walking
14:45
down the street in a neighborhood in
14:47
baltimore
14:48
like so have you guys heard about the
14:50
case of i forget the name of the young
14:52
woman who we were asking about and
14:55
and the police looked at us like they
14:56
had no idea and you're like literally
14:58
you are the people who are walking down
15:00
the street like how would you help find
15:02
someone who's missing if this case isn't
15:04
even top of mind for you you know and i
15:07
think therein lies the problem that
15:10
police presence has to be around
15:13
helping the people in the community who
15:15
live there versus hey we're just going
15:17
to make sure we're policing the
15:19
community and not making the residents
15:21
more safe
15:23
it was one of the big issues um you know
15:25
derek wilson is law enforcement and
15:27
formal law enforcement and so you know
15:29
she was so mad when she realized the
15:32
police that officers that she was
15:33
talking to and their leadership really
15:35
where a lot of that comes from just
15:37
weren't
15:38
aware of some of these missing persons
15:40
cases because they weren't just not that
15:43
important and uh and i i think it's a
15:46
good example of you can't have all these
15:48
systems operating independently without
15:51
everybody you know being concerned i
15:53
guarantee you that if you know if you
15:55
look at the elizabeth smart case
15:57
everyone in the nation had a good idea
15:58
of what elizabeth smart looked like and
16:02
and you know we're constantly thinking
16:04
about well what if i ran into elizabeth
16:06
smart how would i know you know but that
16:08
is not the case for the young women of
16:09
color who are missing yeah
16:12
and you know
16:14
the travesty too this is one of the
16:16
biggest crimes in america to me
16:18
um is that black women are being
16:20
targeted for this reason you know it's
16:24
police part of the reasons you know
16:26
police aren't you know paying attention
16:29
is is not a priority we often talk about
16:32
um
16:32
why we should you know pay more
16:34
attention to who we vote into office
16:36
especially when it comes to mayors
16:37
judges district attorneys and police
16:40
commissioners
16:41
in your community and if you find that
16:43
uh the attention on this matter is
16:45
inadequate you got to raise some hell
16:48
you know you got to put pressure on them
16:50
you got to vote them out of office uh
16:53
it's making it black women are the most
16:55
unprotected um in this country obviously
16:57
that's why we see all of these cases and
17:00
and and if it wasn't for black and
17:02
missing this is you know four-part
17:04
documentary but we need something every
17:06
day
17:07
you know to help solve these crimes
17:10
you know and a lot of it go ahead and
17:12
solo that yeah
17:14
sorry i was just gonna say there's a
17:15
reason why predators pick certain people
17:17
right you you look for the people who
17:20
you can get away with it
17:22
you you look for people who are
17:23
vulnerable um you know and i i think
17:26
you're exactly right about that that if
17:27
you know there's people who are
17:29
unprotected and you know that it's going
17:31
to the police are going to be slow to
17:33
respond in an investigation that people
17:35
will say you know well we you know why
17:37
don't you wait a few days and see if she
17:39
comes home versus oh my goodness this
17:41
could be terrible let's investigate
17:43
immediately if you know the media is
17:44
going to shrug and say
17:46
well you know look at the neighborhood
17:47
she lives in it it's not such a
17:49
safe neighborhood or you know i mean
17:52
she's you know she's just not that cute
17:53
i don't we don't want to put her on tv
17:55
and i'll guarantee you i used to work on
17:57
a show
17:58
where we used to look at um like the
18:01
book jacket of authors you know and
18:03
determined like are they cute enough to
18:05
be on our show not is the book amazing
18:07
not you know there is a factor of do we
18:10
consider you attractive and and you know
18:13
if you're attractive then that's a plus
18:14
to being you know making air uh so you
18:17
know all of those things i think are
18:20
are something you know predators are
18:21
well aware of that
18:24
wow
18:25
soledad how much do you feel like
18:28
the
18:29
whole culture of um no snitching do you
18:32
feel like that has decreased
18:35
as the numbers of missing black women
18:37
has increased or do you feel like it's
18:39
the same how much do you feel like this
18:41
is a contributing factor
18:43
that's such a great question and i don't
18:45
know the answer because we haven't
18:47
really measured that right i just don't
18:49
know that there's like a good data set
18:51
that can tell you i you know i think
18:53
often
18:54
a bigger a bigger issue is less around
18:57
snitching and more around people just
19:00
aren't aware
19:01
there are neighborhoods that you can
19:03
walk down and say you know do you know
19:05
the name of this person uh shanice white
19:08
do you know where you know and have you
19:10
heard that she's even missing and people
19:11
were like no they had no idea so i i
19:13
think it's less of the culture of
19:15
snitching like boy there's a bunch of
19:16
people who know when they're not telling
19:18
versus
19:20
people are just unaware and and i think
19:22
you know black and missing has done a
19:24
lot to make
19:26
organizations individuals law
19:28
enforcement media aware of this big gap
19:32
in in awareness if you will right
19:35
solar dad o'brien said someone was just
19:38
[Applause]
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sending me a
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article about a uh on their personality
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um in the bay area frank somerville who
19:47
was removed from air yeah
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you know you know frank right yeah his
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wife was one of my producers when i
19:54
worked in san francisco many years ago
19:56
now in the 1990s
19:58
yeah you know and you know you saw what
20:00
happened when he started questioning
20:02
because i think there's a lot of this
20:04
sense of um
20:06
you know you have to treat these
20:08
families very carefully and and don't
20:10
talk about missing white woman syndrome
20:12
when and listen i get it if a family is
20:14
missing somebody it's pallation i used
20:16
to think
20:17
how did this mom get out of bed like i
20:19
just can't imagine i literally cannot
20:22
imagine
20:23
but i think what frank was saying of
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course his daughter
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uh is a mixed-race woman i think what he
20:29
was saying was
20:32
you know we just have to care about
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other people too it's not taking away
20:36
from people who are missing and again uh
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you know gabby petito's own father at
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the worst moment in his life is was
20:41
chastising the media go and and cover
20:44
these other women too he wasn't saying
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listen my daughter's story is the most
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important
20:49
you know and as you guys know it's a
20:50
zero-sum game right if you spend an
20:53
entire show an entire week an entire day
20:56
covering one person elizabeth smart uh
21:00
lacey peterson then guess what you don't
21:03
have space in a broadcast to cover other
21:05
people you just don't it's a zero-sum
21:07
game so i thought what frank did was
21:09
very brave and you know he obviously
21:10
paid the price for it yeah they
21:12
suspended him
21:13
for also wanting to bring attention to
21:15
others uh that are missing that of color
21:18
my buddy leonard ing just sent me this
21:20
i'm gonna take one more call soledad uh
21:22
we got charisse on the line from baton
21:24
rouge grand rise and charisse how are
21:26
you doing
21:28
hey guys good grand rising to all
21:32
um
21:33
thank you uh i actually had the
21:35
opportunity to work with mrs uh o'brien
21:38
in the beginning of the year on her
21:40
disrupt and dismantle series
21:42
and when i got the call i was ecstatic
21:44
because i've always been a fan
21:46
i'm really just calling to comment on
21:48
the fact that she never gets she never
21:50
forgets about this community
21:51
she's always fighting for us she's
21:53
always speaking up for us i just want to
21:55
say thank you and to continue because we
21:58
need people like you in the media
22:01
wow sharice thank you what a kind thing
22:02
to say and um
22:04
listen it's important to me it's really
22:06
important to everybody like it literally
22:08
should just be important to everybody
22:10
you're talking about human beings
22:12
um it should be important to everybody
22:14
so i thank you i appreciate that we did
22:15
a great series for bet which is rerun on
22:18
um
22:19
uh
22:20
uh
22:21
that's been rerun uh that called disrupt
22:23
and dismantle that looked at um really
22:26
environmental racism and kind of
22:29
disrupting and dismantling sort of
22:31
built-in racist systems which is you
22:34
know sometimes a hard thing to talk
22:35
about um but it was a great series so
22:38
thank you for all of that anyway and
22:40
also thanks for your kind comments i
22:41
truly appreciate it thank you charisse
22:44
your citizens are right
22:46
all right
22:48
soul of that uh
22:50
uh echo charisses sentiments about you i
22:52
enjoy your work so much and
22:54
i'm always informed when i'm watching
22:56
what you're doing and so i want to say
22:58
continued success and understand
22:59
whatever you're doing this platform is
23:01
one of your resources so
23:03
um
23:04
thank you and i want to encourage
23:06
everyone to watch black and missing
23:08
premiering today at 8 pm on hbo max
23:10
the four-part series
23:12
uh how you spending your holiday solo
23:14
that
23:14
[Applause]
23:15
so you know i don't cook
23:18
but i
23:19
i'm hosting thanksgiving but i'm sort of
23:22
like i make gravy i hold a glass of wine
23:24
in one hand and i make the gravy with
23:26
the other hand and then everybody else
23:28
around me actually makes the food so so
23:30
it's pretty easy for me and i just do
23:32
the cleanup
23:33
yo but that's probably the best damn
23:35
gravy on the east coast so i bet it is
23:37
right actually july it's really good
23:41
i'm sure it is uh well have a great
23:44
holiday and uh we want to encourage
23:46
everybody to watch black and missing on
23:48
atm hbo max starting today
23:50
and we'll talk soon okay
23:53
thank you guys really appreciate it i
23:55
appreciate you
23:56
appreciate you thank you soledad o'brien
23:59
citizens
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[Music]
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[Music]
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you
#Arts & Entertainment