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Exclusive: Marlon Craft On His New Album ‘How We Intended’ and Speaks On Finding Balance In Music
Mar 25, 2021
In February Marlon Craft released his latest LP ‘How We Intended. He sat down in an exclusive interview with Sway to talk about the project.
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0:00
to see you, man. It's
0:01
It's been a been a long year, man. It's
0:02
really good to see you. Yeah, man. It's
0:05
um
0:06
It's been a really crazy year.
0:09
Um
0:11
It's been a transformative year for all
0:13
of us. It's especially been one for me,
0:15
too, uh personally.
0:17
You know, and um I had to do a lot of
0:20
reflection
0:21
when it comes to what it is I'm doing
0:23
with my life and, you know, purpose and
0:25
a lot of these conversations. I know you
0:27
tuned in just by when I listen to your
0:29
songs like State of the Union and I'm
0:31
I'm hearing your ideology and how you
0:33
you you you you speak you're speaking
0:35
our consciousness. You know what I mean?
0:37
When you're talking about [ __ ] that most
0:39
people don't want to talk about
0:40
capitalism and all these different
0:41
things. And so, when you get in these
0:43
positions where we got these mics and
0:45
these cameras and you got your following
0:47
and
0:48
I may have my following and you know, I
0:50
go through this every so often where I'm
0:52
asking myself is what I'm doing aligned
0:55
with my purpose?
0:57
Right.
0:57
Why Why am I doing it? Who is it
0:59
impacting?
1:00
You know, I'm beyond how it's impacting
1:02
me. I understand I've mastered me. I
1:04
understand how to bring me joy. You know
1:06
what I mean? My joy
1:08
truly comes from bringing other folks
1:10
joy. And so, during this time period, um
1:15
this your interview, but I'm [ __ ] I'm
1:17
I'm I'm venting, too, man.
1:18
no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
1:18
no, no.
1:20
During this time this past time period,
1:23
you know, you saw the early on stuff I
1:24
was going with Kiyomi and my daughter
1:26
and I I saw a lot of early on stuff you
1:28
were doing and then um I went behind the
1:30
scenes to start working in the
1:32
infrastructure of things and seeing how
1:34
we can affect change systemically. You
1:36
speak about that, too, you know. And so,
1:39
uh in doing that, man, I you know,
1:41
looking at
1:42
the business,
1:44
you know, sometimes you got to work
1:45
through this business with
1:47
with blinders damn near blinders on, you
1:50
know, just to feel clean when you come
1:53
home and [ __ ] And so,
1:54
I've I've able to create uh
1:57
a very accessible silo for myself where
2:00
I was I don't have to communicate with
2:01
publications, record companies, whatever
2:05
the business entails, and just do what I
2:07
do. During this time period, I I I had
2:10
to communicate with a lot of folks.
2:12
And um it got it got really heavy, kind
2:15
of draining. And made me kind of go into
2:19
my phone booth like Clark Clark Kent.
2:22
You know what I mean?
2:23
Marlon, you know sometimes you got to
2:25
jump in the phone booth and get your
2:27
[ __ ] together to make sure you cool.
2:29
Right. Or you ain't going to be able to
2:30
do anything for anyone. So I I had a
2:32
phase. I think everybody around around
2:35
me, you know, our Heather, Tracy, Kelly,
2:38
we all
2:39
you know, the people guys that work on
2:41
the show, we all, you know, have some
2:43
phases, but
2:45
that was then. Now we, you know, we
2:47
count blessings daily. I'm giving you
2:48
the inside. If you saw me on the
2:50
outside, you'd think Sway's still the
2:51
same Sway, you know, but I'm giving you
2:54
you know, some real [ __ ] And so
2:56
that. No, that's all love, man. I had to
2:58
really get back aligned to even wanting
3:00
to do kind of like,
3:01
you know, I kind of got this not
3:04
disinterested, it just I just wasn't
3:06
motivated to be
3:07
I wanted to be a spectator more than I
3:09
wanted to be,
3:10
you know, one of the mechanics of the of
3:13
the of the business.
3:14
Meanwhile, still invested in the
3:16
culture.
3:17
Right.
3:18
you know, it's a you know, it's a
3:20
difference, you know. That's what's so
3:21
hard. It's like how how do you they're
3:24
so intertwined, you know? I'm like on
3:26
the other side of that where it's like,
3:29
you know, you've been doing this for so
3:30
long.
3:31
I'm like still relatively new to
3:33
everything. And so then like
3:37
yeah, like every step I take trying to
3:39
figure out like what is really necessary
3:42
on how much you need to play the game
3:44
versus how much
3:45
you want to change the game and then
3:47
like what's the way to do it? It kind of
3:49
mirrors politics in general, right? Like
3:52
you got people that are like, oh, we
3:53
should be it's just revolution or bust
3:56
or it's like incremental this and then
3:59
there's some any anywhere in between.
4:01
And it's the hip-hop and the music
4:02
industry, it's like the same [ __ ] It's
4:04
like, I'm sitting here like, all right,
4:06
how how rogue do I want to go versus
4:10
I don't want to take myself out of
4:11
things. I want to be a part of things. I
4:13
want to go through and not around, you
4:15
know, but I've all and I've always
4:17
struggled with that. And this year in
4:18
particular, it's like I feel you know,
4:20
my situation is mirrored yours a lot,
4:22
man. It's like like you know, it's just
4:23
it's just sort of like
4:25
the same the same way you try to
4:27
maneuver politics on the outside in the
4:29
world, it's the same in the music
4:30
industry. Like, whether you want to go
4:32
full-blown like blow everything up and
4:34
be over here or like we got to have a
4:35
revolution or bust or it's like
4:37
incremental change anywhere in between,
4:39
blah blah blah. And like I said, my
4:41
situation is mirrored yours this year
4:43
and just like really trying to figure
4:44
out like what makes my soul like feel
4:48
good, you know, like and really
4:50
prioritizing that because it's like you
4:52
see how fickle this [ __ ] is. It's just
4:54
like it really felt so many times like
4:56
this year like is it all just going to
4:58
go away? Like, how close are we to that?
5:00
And like and if it did, like,
5:03
do I care about this other stuff? And um
5:06
so I I've just been
5:08
you know, realizing that last couple
5:10
years, even though there's the highs
5:12
were super high, but I just had this
5:15
undertone like I just didn't feel good
5:16
about
5:18
a lot of things. And I'm starting to
5:20
like somehow in the midst of this crazy
5:22
[ __ ] it's like you said like I think
5:24
you said your silo, that's fire. Like
5:25
like I got like my silos. Like I rarely
5:28
now I'm dealing with like less so much
5:31
less dealing with people I don't want to
5:32
deal with Mhm. talking about things I
5:35
don't want to talk about. It's like I'm
5:36
blessed to be a artist in this in this
5:38
in the midst of this whole craziness, I
5:40
get to be an artist. I better use that
5:42
[ __ ] man. What if if I turn myself into
5:44
some like entrepreneurial imperialist,
5:47
then what's the point of me of the
5:49
blessing of being able to be an artist
5:50
like you know what I mean? So, I hear
5:53
you. That but you know that was
5:54
interesting about true what I why I keep
5:56
telling you I I watch you
5:59
because I hear you.
6:02
And I hear you speaking as
6:04
as look I want to give you my thoughts,
6:06
my feelings, my my my truth, you know,
6:09
I'm calling these things as I see it.
6:11
Your last two projects have really
6:14
you know, really nice political
6:17
undercurrent to it and then also it was
6:19
up in your face. It was on the surface
6:21
and you're speaking about ideologies
6:24
uh that people
6:25
won't even admit to when you talk about
6:28
white supremacy and and systemic racism
6:30
and all these things that you might talk
6:32
about in a like in a state of the union
6:34
and even in this new album
6:36
um you go really
6:38
deep into your introspective. I watch it
6:41
and then sometimes you might think
6:44
Marlon, I'mma tell you bro, you remind
6:45
me of myself in many ways when I was
6:47
younger and I'm screaming empowerment
6:49
and I'm screaming unity and we could do
6:52
better together than we can, you know,
6:54
separated and divided and feeling like
6:56
man
6:57
damn, nobody's hearing me.
6:59
Yeah.
6:59
You know, uh but people are hearing you
7:02
bro. Uh I love seeing you on I want to
7:04
say was it MSNBC that did the
7:07
that piece um
7:09
and I thought okay, he's moving on the
7:12
right track.
7:14
Your peers
7:15
you know, it's it's always different.
7:16
Some people you know, you go to high
7:18
school some people play sports, some
7:20
people are in the student union, some
7:22
people you know, they're in the science
7:23
class and you know, you might be way off
7:25
in wood shop somewhere. You know, you're
7:27
in sociology right now trying to get
7:30
something across
7:31
and I I remember one of the things that
7:33
stood stood out to me one of our
7:34
conversations is when you said um
7:37
um you don't want to sacrifice your
7:39
integrity, you know, I'm paraphrasing
7:41
you know, or compromise yourself.
7:43
And that was
7:45
damn near 2 years ago and I was just
7:47
thinking, man, how is this dude
7:48
surviving because that mentality doesn't
7:50
pay.
7:53
How you been surviving with, you know,
7:55
hanging on to your integrity and not
7:57
compromising your who you are?
7:59
Yeah, man. I mean
8:02
I I found that it does pay and for me in
8:05
the last year that's been the my glimmer
8:07
of hope in all this [ __ ] is that like,
8:10
you know, I left the label, I went back
8:13
independent,
8:14
um I started this thing, you know,
8:15
called the center is this crowd funded
8:17
like fan funded thing and um and I built
8:22
up this infrastructure of like being
8:25
able to do things on my own, not answer
8:27
to nobody. I'm not working with any like
8:30
corporation that I don't feel great
8:33
about and
8:35
I don't know. It's and I'm making more
8:37
I'm not I mean, look, I'm still like,
8:38
come on, you know, but I whatever, you
8:40
know what I'm saying? We we on the way,
8:41
but I'm making more money than I than
8:43
I've ever made and I'm doing okay. I
8:46
finally got to this point of like this
8:48
first phase of like, okay, I'm making a
8:50
living off of my art uncompromised. And
8:54
there's been a lot of moments this year
8:55
where I look at it and I'm like want to
8:56
shed a tear cuz I'm like, yo, like that
8:58
is such a
9:00
an incredible thing like to I make a
9:03
living off of uncompromised art in 2021
9:08
in this society. It's like I don't need
9:10
all the
9:11
like I don't need the riches. It's like
9:13
that stuff
9:15
it's about what you define for yourself
9:16
as success because look, I have bigger
9:19
aspirations and goals obviously and we
9:20
going to take this thing to the [ __ ]
9:22
wheels fall off. We going to take it big
9:24
still, too. You know, my ambitions
9:26
haven't changed, but like, you know, but
9:29
man, like
9:30
I I reached a certain place, so it's
9:32
like don't tell me that it can't be
9:34
done. It's just about what you value.
9:36
Yeah. I mean and how long you willing to
9:38
work at it? So, and that's why I like I
9:39
always really looked up to guys like you
9:41
because when I came in the [ __ ] like I
9:43
tell people all the time, I know I don't
9:45
know you like super duper well, but I
9:47
tell people all the time it's like Sway
9:48
is probably the one guy that when I came
9:50
to the industry it's like and really met
9:52
him it's like
9:54
he is who like you thought he was, you
9:56
know, like it was like you like you
9:58
didn't disappoint me, you know what I'm
9:59
saying? It's been so many
10:01
disappointments like where you get in
10:02
here and you start seeing the wheels
10:04
turning and you realize that everybody's
10:05
just
10:06
trying to put food on their own plate
10:08
and like whatever, you know? Yeah. And
10:10
so so yeah, man, it's that longevity.
10:13
It's that longevity.
10:15
It's that longevity. Yo, man, the the
10:17
the disappointments that get you to this
10:18
point where you you learn that you could
10:21
be nothing but who you are. It don't pay
10:23
to be nothing else.
10:24
In the beginning we all got to do a song
10:26
and dance a little bit. We want to get
10:28
recognition, you know?
10:30
Um
10:31
we we want to get attention for what
10:32
we're doing.
10:34
You know, we want we and that and all
10:36
that breeds opportunity, but the music
10:38
business is just that and I don't think
10:39
we come in under that orientation. A lot
10:41
of times it's folks who never had
10:43
experience in business and and what
10:45
comes with that is a a lot of
10:47
facetiousness, a lot of you know,
10:49
surface type behavior and personalities
10:53
and you start getting disappointed cuz
10:55
it's affecting you emotionally and these
10:56
people just doing business and then
10:58
that's when you start learning, okay,
11:01
[ __ ] the song and dance, man. I'm not
11:03
Listen, this is who I am. I'm all the
11:05
craft. This is what I'm about. I'm a ill
11:07
ass rapper, dog.
11:09
That's what I do and I rap about things
11:11
I that that are
11:14
that that have substance, you know, that
11:17
I'm trying to educate at the same time
11:18
I'm trying to bite your neck off
11:20
as an MC, you know, and sometimes
11:24
you know,
11:26
that ain't that ain't the same agenda.
11:28
That ain't the same frequency that folks
11:30
are on. So, you develop these mechanisms
11:33
where you learn that man no matter what
11:35
people think
11:37
no matter what their opinion is as long
11:39
as I'm true to myself there is no wrong
11:41
you know and that's why you probably
11:42
seeing all these opportunities come your
11:44
way
11:45
cuz it cuz you true to yourself. What
11:47
did you learn about the business along
11:49
the way though?
11:50
Was Pieces your first project out?
11:52
Man, yeah pretty much other than some
11:55
like the really early stuff that was
11:57
super trash that I probably took down
11:59
from when I first began like you know
12:01
what I mean? Like Pieces was like I was
12:04
like my senior year of college
12:07
um
12:08
and man
12:10
I've learned so much. It's funny cuz I
12:12
think about all these meetings that I
12:14
was in cuz cuz business is a different
12:16
type of thing right? Like it's not about
12:18
like smart or not smart. So when I came
12:20
in I was like I'm smart. I'm a man with
12:22
me he was smart and we we smart like we
12:24
coming to base and we think now all the
12:26
time about how like yo we had no idea
12:28
what we were talking about. Because you
12:30
know a lot of times first of all it just
12:32
takes time to learn a business and how
12:33
it works what's actually going on but
12:35
also because a lot of times the way
12:37
things work in a business don't make
12:40
sense. They're just they're just set up
12:42
they don't make logical sense. So if you
12:45
come in with like like oh I'm smart I
12:46
can put this together this makes sense
12:48
and you have no credibility no leverage
12:49
and you just come in and you're like yo
12:51
well we're going to do it like this and
12:52
they're like no this is how it's done
12:54
and it's just like and you look stupid
12:55
but the truth is you're like the one
12:57
sane person you know what I mean?
12:59
Outside of coming in. So we would go on
13:01
all these meetings and just not know
13:02
what we're talking about and I've
13:04
learned not only the mechanisms of it
13:06
but I've just learned like
13:08
the the smoke and mirrors you know like
13:10
and people talk about this all the time
13:12
but so many of these guys on the front
13:14
like they're not making money like that.
13:16
You know and it's like taboo because
13:18
like a lot of the substance of the songs
13:20
is about money
13:22
but it's like you know the the people
13:24
that that own their stuff the people
13:26
that have diversified their business,
13:28
the people that have multiple income
13:30
streams while they sit at home, the
13:32
people that, you know, are are have a
13:35
fan base that's going to stay for a long
13:37
time. Like those are the people that are
13:39
that are making money and making a real
13:40
career.
13:41
And I see all the time like
13:44
like
13:45
legends on like doing like IG promos and
13:49
things like that and I'm just like, yo,
13:50
what were those deals like that they
13:51
need this bag right now? Like like
13:54
because now I know the business and I'm
13:56
not looking at that person as like
13:58
they're still the legend in my eyes, but
13:59
I'm looking at them like I know what's
14:00
behind that and I'm like, really? Like
14:02
you need that? Because I've know how bad
14:04
your deals probably were. It's like, so
14:07
now that I know like and it really is a
14:10
pride thing, I'm rambling a little bit,
14:11
but it really is a pride thing because
14:14
it's like
14:16
how did we let it get to this point
14:18
where like no one wants to just say
14:19
like, yo, I'm this popping and I'm and
14:22
I'm and I'm don't not making money, so
14:24
let's talk about
14:25
don't make sense, you know? It's crazy.
14:27
But then that that goes
14:31
That that and you see that that that
14:33
opens up a whole new conversation why we
14:35
be fronting so much, right? And I
14:38
it's interesting you say that because
14:40
it's two sides of that, you know, uh why
14:43
we be fronting so much. It could be
14:45
uh
14:46
I'm so into you a lot of the lyrics that
14:48
you said, but you know, it could be we
14:50
worship capitalism, you know, and and
14:52
why is that? I mean, that's how we were
14:54
programmed and those are the things,
14:55
imaging, the messaging that have been
14:57
put into us since however old we were,
15:01
you know, especially in our communities.
15:02
You grew up in New York, you know what
15:04
it is. Um and then, you know, the flip
15:07
side of it is I saw a interview that
15:09
Muhammad Ali was doing with this
15:11
I want to say a British reporter. And
15:14
the British reporter was trying to catch
15:16
him up on, you know, um
15:19
their Nation of Islam philosophy about
15:21
materialism and and trying to say that
15:25
Muhammad Ali was being hypocritical by
15:27
buying Rolls-Royces or something to that
15:29
effect. You know, and so that's that
15:31
other side of why do why do we show off?
15:33
And the way Muhammad Ali explained it
15:35
was I do that because if I didn't, then
15:38
I couldn't get people's attention and
15:40
they wouldn't take me seriously as I try
15:42
to convert them into Islam. You know
15:45
what I mean? So it's it's two sides of
15:47
it, you know, but I think when it comes
15:49
to
15:49
uh
15:51
rap music, it yeah, it it is it's a it's
15:54
an interesting thing. It's an
15:55
interesting phenomenon and that's how
15:57
we're taught. You know, that's how it's
15:59
been marketed since day one. Like you go
16:01
back to the Curtis Blow eras of videos
16:04
and you know, Run-DMC with the truck
16:06
jewelry and and all of those things, but
16:09
to me, I feel like we matured enough
16:11
now, we've been around long enough
16:13
to realize what you're saying, "Hey man,
16:16
I I get it now. You know, it's a lot of
16:18
smoke and mirrors."
16:19
How do we change that? How do we How do
16:22
we make that different? Yeah, and and I
16:24
think like the other place that I'd like
16:26
to get to, which just drives me crazy,
16:28
is like
16:29
the underlying thing beneath it all,
16:31
which is like All right, first of all,
16:33
everyone's not getting as much money as
16:35
they say, right? And these deals are bad
16:37
and it's rich white people profiting off
16:39
everybody as usual, right? But even
16:41
outside of that, like
16:44
when are we going to take that step to
16:46
be like, "Yo, like the cool wavy [ __ ] is
16:50
not just about getting money." Like it's
16:52
not. It's about the [ __ ] we're talking
16:54
about. It's about trying to know and
16:56
master yourself, trying to impact the
16:58
people around you, your community, like
17:00
leave a positive imprint on this earth,
17:02
like find your joy. You know what I'm
17:05
saying? Find your happiness.
17:07
Um that we know is like
17:09
and I get it like and I get it and look
17:11
like I
17:13
I don't I come from New York. Yeah,
17:15
never I never had a silver spoon, but
17:17
I'm a white kid from the house kitchen.
17:18
Like I don't know about real poverty
17:21
other than what I've seen other people
17:22
go through. So I don't judge nobody. You
17:24
know what I'm saying? That That That
17:27
like That's not for me to for me to say.
17:29
But at the same time like I just look
17:32
back at at the culture in general and
17:34
it's just like
17:35
When when is it it's going to be like
17:37
yo, I got this and I got that and I got
17:39
that and we say, well no, you don't
17:40
really got that. But then the second
17:42
part of it is even if you did
17:45
who cares? Because you might got that
17:49
but the way the [ __ ] that you're
17:51
perpetuating ensures that mad other
17:54
people continue to not have that. You
17:56
know what I'm saying? And it's like
17:59
I I
18:00
It's It's like you know
18:02
It's hard. Like I feel like the grandpa
18:04
at the table a lot of the times. Like
18:06
You know what I'm saying? Like
18:07
hey man, you still in your 20s, bro. I
18:10
know. That's what's crazy, but I always
18:12
been this way like with my friends. You
18:13
know what I'm saying? Where it's like
18:14
and it's This is what we talk about
18:16
though even in the beginning when we're
18:17
talking about like how do we move? Like
18:19
how do you how much do you participate
18:21
so as to sprinkle your [ __ ] in? How much
18:24
are you just unapologetic all the time
18:26
with your angle on everything? Because I
18:28
want I want to be heard and I don't just
18:30
want to be heard by the people that
18:32
watch MSNBC. Yeah.
18:34
I love no disrespect. It's a huge look,
18:35
but it's like you know, I want to be
18:37
heard within the culture. And even
18:39
within the culture like I mean I've said
18:41
it before. It's like that was a huge
18:43
media moment and like like outside the
18:46
culture, right? And like people in the
18:48
culture complain all the time about like
18:50
where's this dialogue and these songs
18:52
within the culture.
18:54
And then it was like
18:56
No coverage.
18:57
no no real no real meaningful from
18:59
people that cuz MSNBC it that was like
19:01
there was like 3 million viewers
19:02
watching that live. Like and then the
19:04
video was So I just wonder sometimes
19:06
about
19:08
whether people or not really care or are
19:11
they just that hamstrung by the
19:12
buildings they're in? You know what I'm
19:14
saying? That they can't actually curate
19:16
the [ __ ] that they want to. And it's
19:17
like, but either way, whatever it is,
19:19
it's not about judging people, it's just
19:20
about like
19:22
let's have a discussion cuz there's this
19:23
narrative that people aren't making this
19:25
stuff, and it's not true. Yeah, I I I
19:27
agree with you. And it's And it's This
19:29
is why people like This is why we have
19:31
these conversations, you know? I can
19:33
tell you what I learned, man. I
19:36
I think there's room for all of these
19:37
this discourse. I think there's room for
19:39
all of this
19:40
behavior, if you will, all of
19:43
motivation, or there's room for the
19:45
folks that, you know, want to glorify,
19:48
you know, material material items,
19:50
whether it's cars, houses,
19:53
you know, money, phones, all those
19:54
things.
19:56
It's
19:57
We're not monolithic, and it's always
19:59
going to be folks on one side of the
20:00
coin of the flip side of the coin, and
20:02
then and somewhere in in the middle in
20:04
the nucleus of another dimension, you
20:05
know? And then there's people like you,
20:07
and there's people like me.
20:09
I think you stay the course.
20:11
Right.
20:12
You just stay the course.
20:14
And that And that energy that of
20:15
curiosity of why others may do or think
20:19
the way they do, embrace it, you know,
20:22
support that, but stay on your course.
20:25
And then you'll be the seed
20:27
that grows and and, you know, creates a
20:29
garden of like-minded people that also
20:32
put that on the put that in a spotlight
20:34
as well.
20:35
I say this based on the fact that we we
20:37
live a lot of parallels in that sense.
20:39
And I realized the only thing that I
20:41
that's within my power is to stay the
20:43
course, stay aligned with my purpose.
20:46
Uh it's how we intended, no pun
20:48
intended.
20:49
You like that? That was That was fire. I
20:51
like that.
20:53
You know, and um
20:56
you know, you said a lot of interesting
20:57
things, bro. You said um like I even if
21:00
I look on your social media, you say a
21:02
lot of people
21:04
You said that a lot of people don't love
21:05
hip-hop, they love attention.
21:08
What did you mean by that?
21:11
Man, like
21:12
when I look at it, it's just like
21:16
we have this huge attention economy,
21:18
right? It's just like Instagram,
21:20
Twitter, social media. It's just all
21:22
about
21:23
how something's doing, how many likes it
21:25
gets, how much eyeballs are on it.
21:28
And people make music and they make
21:30
their art like based on that. And they
21:33
always just like
21:35
justify [ __ ] Like a lot of people don't
21:37
even be like, "Oh, well, this is hotter
21:39
cuz the way he did this or the way these
21:42
chords changed into this." Or whatever
21:43
it is. Like that's not the combo. It's
21:45
like a lot of people it's just like "Yo,
21:47
the numbers." Or like a million views.
21:49
Or like this much and whatever. And it's
21:51
like we're making People are making
21:53
music to get attention. And it's not
21:56
It's not true to what they feel. And
21:57
that's why more and more stuff continues
22:00
to sound the same, I think. Because it's
22:02
like, "What's the shortest route to
22:04
potentially getting the most attention?"
22:06
And I just don't see the love. Like I
22:08
just know for myself and some and a
22:10
plenty of other people. I don't want to
22:12
make it sound like this is the whole
22:14
game at all by any means. But for us
22:16
that really love hip-hop and the
22:17
culture, it's just like we can never
22:19
like cheat it like that, you know? It's
22:21
just not even about that. Like I I The
22:24
parts of me that think about how to get
22:26
eyeballs on my stuff, like that's the
22:28
part that I resent having to do. Like
22:30
that's the part of my job that we all
22:32
have that I don't like as much. Mhm.
22:34
Um so, I just see that a lot. Like I
22:37
don't know. I just think
22:39
Yeah. And I And I And I think,
22:40
ironically, some of a lot of people
22:42
would get more attention for their art
22:44
if they put more of their heart into it
22:46
and and didn't care, you know, as much
22:49
intentionally about getting attention.
22:51
Mhm.
22:52
Um you I want to say the song State of
22:54
the Union you you you said um
22:57
soul is vacant in the culture. You know,
22:59
you said Yeah, soul is vacant in the
23:02
culture. I can't think of what else you
23:03
said after that. Um So, yeah, soul
23:05
vacancy across the culture. Across the
23:07
culture. So, when they say they do it
23:09
for it, man, I got to wonder.
23:11
Yeah. Um
23:14
How much
23:15
energy do you put on that? Like, you
23:17
know,
23:18
like you put a lot of energy in things
23:21
that that kind of out of your control.
23:24
You know,
23:25
it's not, you know, folks might not
23:27
They're not aligned with the way you
23:28
think about this culture, the
23:30
preservation of the culture. And maybe,
23:33
honestly, they may believe that that's
23:35
what they're doing through through their
23:36
success, through their views, through
23:38
their streams. You know what I mean?
23:42
How much energy do you put into that?
23:45
Probably too much, man. You know,
23:48
you know, you know, I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm
23:49
I'm sounding like my shrink right now.
23:50
You know,
23:52
like like like like too much, man, cuz
23:54
it's it's true. Like, you know, caring a
23:56
lot comes at a cost. A big part of it
23:58
for me is learning how to like like you
24:02
called it stay the course, which that
24:04
impacted me a lot when you said that. I
24:05
think it's really true and it's but and
24:07
it's for me it's like this idea of
24:08
caring
24:10
without so much emotion
24:12
cuz you can't ring yourself dry. Like,
24:14
when you really care, you're an empath.
24:17
Or and you get really You can get really
24:18
frust- I'm also like part Sicilian, so
24:21
I'm just going to get angry and upset
24:23
like all these things, you know. So,
24:24
it's like I can't let all that
24:27
uh overcome me cuz there's a lot of
24:29
negative emotions that come from that.
24:31
So, it's kind of like this prolonged
24:33
learning how to have this prolonged
24:34
sustained type of of care and to get it
24:37
out on songs like State of the Union so
24:40
that I don't walk around like that angry
24:42
guy cuz that's not who I want to be and
24:43
that's not like positive energy to the
24:45
world, you know. So,
24:48
But I do but I but I but I haven't
24:50
mastered it like too much, you know.
24:51
Like, I get I I'll be frustrated, you
24:53
know.
24:54
Yeah. And that's uh that's your passion
24:56
and love. I'm just And I we ain't got to
24:57
stay on it, but
24:59
that energy is there, you know, to be
25:01
utilized however you direct it. So, you
25:04
could keep reflecting on things that
25:06
will never change.
25:08
You sound exactly like I did
25:11
when I was in that at the place you are
25:13
now in in your in your career.
25:15
That
25:16
that part doesn't change. The only thing
25:19
that, you know, is always going to be
25:20
people who feel
25:21
you know, that function in that way in
25:23
that mindset.
25:25
We you thinking culture the thing the
25:27
the best thing you can do the the only
25:29
thing you can change is your behavior
25:30
and how you stick and move, right? And
25:32
it's important that you're successful.
25:34
It's important that you get views.
25:36
It's important that you get attention
25:38
so you could be heard. It's important
25:40
that everything you do is viable because
25:43
your purpose is, you know, something
25:44
bigger than just making money and being
25:46
famous, right? Right. And that that's a
25:49
huge point because I think that's how I
25:51
wrestle with the reality of the duality
25:54
of having to chase views, attention,
25:57
like, you know, streams, etc. All these
25:59
things. And I put the pressure on myself
26:01
to say, "Nah, make it mean something
26:03
when you do it. Like, stay true to your
26:05
integrity and that way the numbers won't
26:07
be empty cuz what it will mean is that
26:09
someone that that's doing everything
26:11
that you do to try to have integrity to
26:13
say what you say, do what you do,
26:15
got those numbers. You know what I mean?
26:18
And that and then now the numbers now
26:19
the numbers kind of mean something. So,
26:22
yeah, it's not like don't We all want
26:23
attention, man. I want You know what I'm
26:25
saying? I'm an artist. I want to be
26:26
heard. That's why I started doing this,
26:27
you know? Artists we we want to be
26:29
heard. But, um
26:31
but it's like
26:32
the
26:34
the goal becomes the the come becomes
26:37
the heard. Yeah. Instead of like, I
26:39
wanted to have these things heard that I
26:40
have to say.
26:42
And the minute that you don't have
26:43
anything to say, you still just want to
26:44
be heard, that's where the danger comes,
26:46
you know? That's the danger zone, man.
26:48
Uh
26:49
yeah, what one of the things I like
26:51
about you what I saw you talk about you
26:54
know Kendrick in the past and and you
26:56
know the Jake Cole's and and all of
26:59
these different folks and I read that
27:01
the To Pimp a Butterfly is one of your
27:02
favorite albums.
27:04
Yeah. Is that your favorite album?
27:06
Yeah, that's my favorite album. All
27:08
time?
27:09
Yeah, that album
27:11
I remember I my dad came to pick me up
27:14
from school from college and drive me
27:16
back to New York.
27:18
I already heard and I just remember I
27:19
was mad hyped to show it to him cuz he's
27:20
a jazz musician and it was like, you
27:22
know, all the live instrumentation on
27:24
there and um
27:26
we just listened to it the whole way
27:27
back. I just remember towards the end of
27:28
the first song he looked at me he was
27:30
just like, "Yo, I love this shit." And I
27:33
was like, "Yeah." And I just thought it
27:34
was amazing cuz
27:36
he just did everything that everybody
27:37
tried to say you can't do on that. Like
27:40
it was like he had huge hits on that
27:42
record. Like huge commercial successes.
27:45
It was incredible music. It was
27:47
narrative. It was deep. It was like uh
27:50
without being forced.
27:52
Um he wrestled with the most
27:54
like important topical issues of our
27:57
time without being too on the nose or
27:59
cheesy. And then the musicality of it
28:02
just proved it was like,
28:04
"Don't tell me you can't have 808s in
28:07
the saxophone, bro. Like don't tell me."
28:09
He's the biggest artist in the world,
28:10
you know? And he Look what he did. So,
28:12
that just gave me the confidence to be
28:14
like, "Nah, that's what I'm going to
28:15
do." That's all that live
28:16
instrumentation [ __ ] that I like came
28:18
from I always wanted to do it, but that
28:20
album took gave me like like, "Nah, I'm
28:23
I'm that's what we going to do." So,
28:26
um and hopefully some stuff I make could
28:28
do that for somebody at some point. Like
28:29
I as a young artist who's coming up
28:31
who's
28:32
who's like popping right now and um I
28:34
was talking with him
28:36
and um
28:38
his name's Redveil. Mhm. He he hit me up
28:41
and he was and we were talking about
28:42
State of the Union actually and then we
28:43
were talking we could do a song. He He
28:45
at He's like 17. And he was asking me
28:47
like, "Yo, how do you how do you get the
28:48
relationships with the live musicians
28:50
and stuff?"
28:51
And I was like, "Yo, you know, you do
28:53
this, do that, this is how it happened
28:55
for me." And but I was like, "I'll put
28:57
you on with some people if you if you
28:58
need something." And he was like,
29:00
"Word." He hit me up the next day and he
29:01
was like, "Yo, I I need a sax player for
29:03
this song, like whatever." And I put him
29:05
in touch with this dope sax player, you
29:07
know, within 10 minutes and it was like
29:09
I felt accomplished as [ __ ] Mhm. I was
29:12
like I was like, "Yo, first of all, I'm
29:15
just hyped that there's a 17-year-old
29:16
kid out there right now coming up making
29:18
music that wants to put some live sax on
29:20
on his shit." And then I'm the guy that
29:23
was able to put him in touch with
29:24
somebody. Whatever happens with it, like
29:26
that to me like those are the metrics of
29:28
achievement, like, you know, we could
29:29
get trophies one day and that'll be
29:30
cool, but like
29:32
that's how you that's how you impact a
29:34
culture to me, you know? That's what
29:35
makes that's what makes me feel special,
29:37
at least, you know what I mean? But you
29:39
make that kind of impact. I I think I I
29:41
brought up Kendrick cuz I I feel like
29:43
he's a great example of
29:45
that you could that you could use, you
29:47
know, you could utilize in how he
29:48
function and all that everything you
29:49
just said, he's you know, biggest rapper
29:51
in the world, most one of the most
29:52
respected artist
29:54
in the world, you know, award-winning
29:56
accolades, the whole nine, and ain't
29:58
nothing about him changed. He's one of
29:59
those people you meet and go, "Okay, he
30:01
he lived up he meeting him in person is
30:04
better than what you thought it was,
30:06
right? You know?
30:07
He he lives up to himself. Uh this
30:10
project, you talk about live
30:12
instrumentation, I know the on Funhouse
30:13
Mirror you had your homies you know, you
30:15
guys got together in the garage and
30:18
you know, and kinked it out like on this
30:20
project, how did you put it how did you
30:23
put it together during the pandemic?
30:26
Like how were you able to accomplish it?
30:28
Well,
30:29
I did half half of the album we did on
30:31
Zoom.
30:32
Um okay. Me and me and me and
30:36
Dan Edinburgh and my man Kevin Theodore
30:39
aka X-Man, they they did like half the
30:41
album with me
30:43
and we had met and done some stuff like
30:46
before everything got shut down. And
30:48
when it did, we just started doing these
30:50
Zoom sessions. We had this thing called
30:51
Audio Movers where like you could send
30:53
me a link and then I could hear the
30:55
output from your Pro Tools or your Logic
30:57
or whatever. So, we were basically just
30:59
running them like like real sessions. It
31:01
would just be like, "All right, now send
31:02
me play on this. Now send me that stem.
31:03
All right, cool. I emailed it to you.
31:05
All right, here we go." And I'll be
31:06
like, "All right, I'll finish writing.
31:07
I'll be back in 30 minutes. I'm going to
31:08
go lay down the verse." Come back, play
31:10
the verse. I was like, "Oh, that's fire.
31:11
All right, do do do do do." So, we
31:13
really got into it like during the
31:15
quarantine cuz we were just on some like
31:16
we were not going to be stopped, you
31:18
know? And um I haven't been to the half
31:21
of the joints were done before, so I did
31:23
them in the studio and stuff, but um
31:25
yeah, man, I was working with these
31:26
incredible musicians. They're playing
31:28
like violin and stuff and all this stuff
31:31
like in their in their crib. I'm
31:32
watching them do it just like I'm
31:33
talking to you right now. I haven't been
31:35
to the studio in um
31:37
in over a year cuz I'm just super
31:39
paranoid and and trying to be safe with
31:41
the COVID and everything. What would do
31:43
like when you make those songs cuz your
31:45
songs you have your own style. You got
31:46
your own your own
31:48
your own vibe that you work in.
31:51
Um
31:52
but when you make these songs are are
31:53
you listening to everything else? You
31:56
know, there's people who don't sound
31:57
like you, different genres that are
31:59
doing really well. The Baby, you know,
32:01
Lil Baby, you know, Roddy Ricch, you
32:03
know,
32:04
um
32:06
do you listen to the other music that's
32:08
that's permeating right now and consider
32:11
that when you make your music at all?
32:12
Yeah, hell yeah. And I mean, that's the
32:14
thing. Like I want to be in the mix with
32:16
those guys. Like I want to be part of
32:18
what's going on in the culture. Like I
32:19
don't want to be Like I've realized this
32:21
year that I just won't compromise and in
32:24
the in the end I'll just be where I'll
32:26
be and it's like whatever. Like but I
32:29
don't want to be like
32:31
you know, guy cuz I feel like I'm making
32:32
some of the best hip hop music period
32:34
that's coming out. You know what I mean?
32:35
Like not like with it without some like
32:38
asterisk, you know? So, I and I like
32:40
those guys. Like, all three of those
32:42
guys I learn from what they're doing and
32:44
I find the things that apply to, you
32:46
know, what I what I could what I do and
32:48
I I not and I do some trap joints and
32:50
different things and so, even if I'm not
32:53
like running through somebody's
32:54
discography crazy, I'm definitely like,
32:57
you know,
32:58
like taking things from like, oh, that's
33:01
dope and like how he uses his voice like
33:03
this or this flow, whatever, you know?
33:05
I'm I'm a fan and those guys are wild
33:07
talented, too. Like, like like people
33:10
even if it's not your like cup of tea or
33:12
whatever,
33:13
you know, like Roddy Ricch is like
33:15
he's doing all types of like wild
33:17
melodies and [ __ ] It's like it's fire
33:19
it's dudes are musically talented. Like,
33:21
it's not like, you know, it's not as
33:23
polarized as some I I really don't like
33:25
when people are just like, oh,
33:27
this is like what real is and it's like,
33:30
well, that [ __ ] is actually really
33:31
simple. Dude's rapping the same 16 over
33:33
the same drum break for like over and
33:35
over again. Like, you know, so it really
33:37
if it's musically interesting, I'm into
33:39
it. Do you feel like
33:42
you know, we we have to learn to
33:45
Do we Do we be patient for the change
33:47
that we see happening music?
33:49
Or or, you know, like
33:52
or did we jump the gun and be too Are we
33:54
too judgmental when people sound
33:56
different and they maybe they don't they
33:58
don't function in the fundamentals in
33:59
the basic principles of how what we call
34:01
hip hop or how we or what's dope or
34:03
what's culture?
34:04
I I think look, there's definitely
34:08
to your first point,
34:10
I think like there's not enough artist
34:12
development at all. Like, that's part of
34:14
the the way things happen so fast in the
34:16
industry. That's actually one of the
34:17
gifts of everybody
34:19
fronting on me for so long is I've been
34:21
able to like have time to get really
34:23
good without mad pressure and spotlight
34:25
on me for the whole time. Cuz when you
34:27
come out the gate really fast and then
34:29
all of a sudden like everybody's
34:31
co-signing you and it's like with social
34:32
media things can happen so fast. And
34:35
some of these guys I'm like watching and
34:37
I'm like
34:38
thinking that they're getting a little
34:39
too much accolade not because I don't
34:42
think that they're dope because I'm
34:44
like, "Yo, you're putting wild pressure
34:45
on these dudes. Like they're not that
34:47
good yet and you're going to maybe stop
34:49
them from getting that good because
34:51
they're going to have to be wild busy
34:52
and have this big label deal that they
34:54
and got to do this and got to do that."
34:55
You know, there's a certain hunger that
34:57
comes from like having to build it. So,
35:00
um think there definitely needs to be
35:01
more time on like
35:03
just developing artists and but everyone
35:05
everyone's just kind of chasing a
35:07
you know, a quick buck. But there's some
35:08
guys that are really doing it right. I
35:10
mean, look at Griselda. Like look at
35:12
what's happening this year. I know
35:13
you've been on them for years and years.
35:14
It's like that's the culmination of
35:16
years and years of like belief and work,
35:18
you know, and getting better at every
35:20
aspect of what they do in their
35:21
business. Uh like look at Freddie Gibbs
35:25
and Alchemist. Freddie Gibbs, yo.
35:27
And got got got Grammy nominated. Like
35:30
that's big.
35:31
That was big for me, yo. That's a win
35:33
for culture though. That's a win.
35:34
That was yeah. Like that was big for me
35:35
cuz that said to me cuz yo, if you
35:37
telling me I get my first Grammy nom in
35:39
10 years, you told me that today I'd be
35:40
like, "That's cool, bro. I'm trying to
35:42
be here for life." Like that's I'm
35:44
that's cool with me. Like the idea that
35:47
that um that type of longevity and and
35:49
just greatness over time is rewarded,
35:52
you know? So, that's how I look at it,
35:54
man. Long game. I'm I'm in it for the
35:56
long game, you know? I like it, man. Uh
36:00
you got to you know, when I think about
36:01
some of the things you're saying you
36:03
said
36:04
you know, early on that you you guys
36:06
used to go into these business meetings
36:08
and didn't know what you were doing and
36:10
didn't know, you know, what you were
36:12
saying and thought you knew it all. You
36:14
know, uh I'm curious to who are some of
36:16
those people you met with?
36:18
I want to see how big those business
36:19
meetings got. Oh man, like like booking
36:22
agents. Mhm. I still don't have a a
36:25
agent. Like it's it like they they all
36:28
don't like me, but uh for some reason, I
36:30
don't know, but What did they tell you?
36:33
I mean, they said something. They gave
36:34
you feedback.
36:36
Now, I had one and I left See, I get
36:38
Actually, I'll just tell this story. I
36:39
don't even care anymore. This is This is
36:41
This is a good example of what we were
36:43
talking about. And and I have They'll
36:45
say this isn't true, whatever. I don't
36:46
know. I have a meeting with booking
36:48
agents this week, so hopefully it goes I
36:49
I don't know, whatever. But, here's
36:51
here's what happened, right? I had a
36:52
booking agent. He got me early.
36:55
I didn't feel like like we weren't There
36:57
was no opportunities that were coming.
36:58
He wasn't really doing stuff. It wasn't
36:59
working out. I didn't really know maybe
37:01
what how to manage my own expectations.
37:03
Fair enough. Fine, right? But, I was
37:06
kind of like, "Yo, we need some
37:07
opportunities. We need things going."
37:08
When I came to the label, they were
37:09
going to line up meetings with other
37:10
booking agents for me. Most people, what
37:13
they would do is they would go take
37:14
those meetings first because you don't
37:17
fire an agent till you have another
37:18
agent, right?
37:20
But, I try to move with integrity, and I
37:22
knew it wasn't working out with us.
37:24
And I knew that I was going to go do
37:26
other meetings. So, rather than have him
37:29
hear from other people, whatever, that
37:30
I'm going doing other meetings or be
37:32
whatever, I just man-to-man. I just
37:34
said, "Yo, bro,
37:35
I really appreciate everything that I
37:36
I'm going to other meetings. I want you
37:38
to hear it from me just cuz I'm going to
37:39
go do these other meetings. So, I just
37:41
think it's not working out, and you
37:42
know, probably right like that seems
37:43
like how you boom, right? I thought that
37:46
was a really like high-integrity move.
37:49
I haven't had another booking agent
37:51
since then.
37:52
And the ones that I have met with,
37:56
it really always feels like it goes
37:58
well, and then they dig around, you
38:00
know, makes calls, talk to people. I
38:02
don't know. Like, they're friends He's
38:03
friends with whoever. Like, I don't
38:05
know. And I don't think it's actually
38:06
him doing it or anything. I'm not
38:07
accusing nobody of nothing. But, this is
38:09
my point, right? Like,
38:11
this is one of a trillion stories where
38:14
I try to move with integrity in a
38:15
business that is built
38:17
for you not to move that way.
38:19
And it seems like
38:23
there's punitive results of that, right?
38:25
So, you just trying to be honest and be
38:27
a good a good person.
38:29
Um and that happens, you know, [ __ ] like
38:30
that, you know how it goes. Like if [ __ ]
38:32
like But you know what? I truly believe
38:35
um
38:36
the other thing is I like I make a lot
38:38
of these people uncomfortable, man.
38:39
Like, you know, it's it's like, you
38:41
know,
38:42
it's easy for you to [ __ ] with me cuz
38:44
you're you. And so you you feel
38:47
comfortable, you know who you are, where
38:48
you sit in the [ __ ]
38:50
But it's easy for someone
38:53
that sits in a chair that's from like
38:56
wherever like suburb that they're from
38:58
and they make all their money off a
39:00
bunch of like
39:01
young black kids that, you know, rap
39:04
about [ __ ] that they don't know nothing
39:05
about. You know what I'm saying?
39:08
To look at me
39:09
and tell me that like, "No, no, we not
39:11
But that's because they don't want
39:12
someone They don't want the mirror.
39:14
Yeah. They don't want the mirror, bro,
39:16
cuz the mirror gets held up and it's
39:18
like, "Oh, yeah, I'm the real version of
39:20
you. If you weren't a fraud." You know
39:22
what I'm saying? So So, um so these
39:25
things combine, but I really do believe,
39:27
man, like you said like we said in this
39:28
conversation that
39:30
in the And I want to be clear, I'm not
39:31
complaining. I'm just talking to you
39:33
honest cuz yo, we so I got so much
39:34
respect you we just talking. But But
39:37
I really believe in the aggregate that
39:39
trying to move with integrity and with
39:41
principle and do the right thing all the
39:43
time, in the end, 10 years from now,
39:46
when we look up and it's like, "Where am
39:48
I at?" I I'll be I'm going to be
39:50
rewarded and I'd rather do that all the
39:52
time consistently than be like,
39:56
"This move I got to sacrifice a bunch
39:58
cuz it's like the move This is where I
39:59
sacrifice, but over here I'mma keep my
40:01
integrity." It's like, "Nah, I realized
40:03
this year, man, I'mma just do it the way
40:05
that it should be done all the time and
40:07
the chips fall where they fall, man, and
40:09
at least I'll
40:10
my my heart will rest easy, you know
40:12
what I'm saying?"
40:14
I like that. Um
40:16
where I am, matter of fact, on the
40:18
album, right? And um
40:22
listening to this album, man, I feel
40:23
like I went I I went through went
40:25
through your whole life in the past
40:26
year, however long it took you. I heard
40:29
the emotional ups, the emotional downs,
40:31
the pay attention, and and the and the
40:32
loose, and how you talked about your
40:35
girl and your and your family around you
40:37
is is who held you up, and it it seemed
40:39
like you might have hit a pit bit and
40:40
then start
40:42
coming into yourself. Uh "Where I Am" is
40:45
an interesting song to me.
40:47
Um
40:48
I'm curious to Do you feel like you are
40:49
now where you supposed to be?
40:52
Yeah, man.
40:54
Yo, you Yo, it's so funny cuz
40:56
you always bring the songs that no one's
40:58
like talked about yet, and I'm like
41:00
wondering why I haven't got to talk Like
41:01
I remember the first time we met, you
41:03
like brought up the intro, and you like,
41:05
"Yo, play the intro." And I was so hyped
41:06
that you did that cuz I was like, "I
41:07
love the intro, and no one's really said
41:09
[ __ ] about it yet." Same thing, this
41:11
song no one's really said [ __ ] about it
41:12
yet, but I love that song.
41:13
Um yeah, man, I I really feel like
41:18
it's an ongoing discovery every day of
41:20
of who I want to continue to grow into,
41:22
but like
41:24
but like
41:25
this is this is where I'm supposed to be
41:26
at. Like I'm supposed to be
41:28
uncompromised. I'm supposed to be my own
41:31
boss at all times, and and you know, be
41:34
in control of of my situation. I'm
41:37
supposed to just be operating like from
41:39
the heart, you know what I'm saying? And
41:41
I'm a real heady guy, and an
41:42
intellectual guy, and and I run like a
41:45
lot of my own business, and so like I I
41:47
wear that hat, you know what I mean?
41:48
Mhm. But but
41:51
this is where I'm supposed to be, man.
41:52
I'm supposed to be operating from the
41:54
heart. Like this is why I got into this,
41:55
and this is actually what makes me
41:56
different than everybody else. And I
41:58
think I was trying to like meet a lot of
42:00
[ __ ] halfway, you know what I'm saying?
42:02
Like even musically. And I don't regret
42:05
none of the songs that I make cuz a lot
42:06
of it comes with cool out of it, right?
42:07
But I would be like intentionally I'll
42:09
be like, "Yo, we're going to make like a
42:10
trap banger, but then it's going to have
42:12
these musical interludes. So, it's going
42:13
to be like a blend of the worlds.
42:15
And that [ __ ] is fire. It worked a lot,
42:18
but
42:19
it was just even that I was like too
42:21
intentional. Like, you know what I'm
42:23
saying? With the catering to something
42:25
like to Wasn't organic. Wasn't 100%
42:27
organic, right?
42:28
Yeah, to who? Like, to who? Like, if we
42:30
going to make that song, it's cuz it's
42:32
going to be cuz that's what we felt. You
42:34
know, and and
42:36
so
42:38
that's that's what I think about like
42:39
where I am, you know, where I'm supposed
42:41
to be. It's just like
42:43
that that that that like I realized it,
42:45
you know, it's like this is and that
42:46
song in the narrative of the whole thing
42:48
comes after uh working man. Mhm.
42:52
And so that for me was like
42:56
I ain't trying to I'm like realizing
42:58
like I
43:00
I might be rich one day off this [ __ ]
43:02
but
43:03
I'm like down here with like with the
43:05
people. Like, that's this is where I'm
43:06
at, man. I'm a man of the people. Like,
43:08
I'm a person. However far that gets me
43:10
Yeah, that's however far that gets me,
43:11
you know.
43:12
I like it.
43:13
You're saying that song there's a line I
43:15
I I
43:15
I always have to paraphrase. Some lines
43:17
stick in my head. And you said something
43:19
about sweeping you can sweep the dirt
43:21
under the rug, but sooner or later
43:24
the rugs is going to get bugs or
43:25
something like that.
43:28
What was the lyric? Say the lyric.
43:30
You can sweep cheap dirt under the
43:31
expensive rugs, but eventually you're
43:33
still going to get some bugs.
43:37
What were you thinking of when you wrote
43:38
that specifically?
43:42
Uh
43:44
well, you know, it's like we hide we
43:46
hide
43:47
the pain and we hide the the the shallow
43:51
impulse and craving underneath
43:54
luxury, you know what I'm saying? Like,
43:57
expensive rugs. It's like you know,
43:59
whether you whether you sweep that dirt
44:00
under
44:02
you know, an expensive rug or a cheap
44:04
rug, it's a rug, man. It's under there
44:05
and they're going to find it and you're
44:06
going to get some you're going to get
44:07
some bugs under there whatever. So, it's
44:10
just like you can't hide you can't hide
44:12
forever from these things especially not
44:13
with luxury and with money. And also I
44:15
was just thinking about like personal
44:17
[ __ ] like family [ __ ] like you know
44:20
cuz it's not all about this thing of
44:22
like
44:23
oh the people that just want to flash
44:25
the jewels are bad and the people that
44:27
are using their brains are good. It's
44:28
like nah. Like we're all we're all
44:30
sweeping a lot of emotions and and inner
44:32
stuff under the under the rug that's
44:34
hurting the whole thing, you know.
44:37
Damn bro, you
44:39
what do you do for fun?
44:43
Oh [ __ ] man, I drink.
44:45
You drink?
44:46
That's how you have your fun? Yeah, nah
44:48
nah I
44:49
you know that I've been realizing this
44:52
year like I need some hobbies. One of
44:53
the things I can't wait till I'm fully
44:55
vaccinated and we get outside because I
44:57
miss playing ball man. I'm a ball player
44:59
and I realized too like I don't know.
45:01
Yeah, I'm not giving that up no more. I
45:03
only got a I only got so many years left
45:05
in in these knees or whatever we got
45:07
like I'm getting like I I'm getting back
45:09
out like that's what I love I love to
45:11
play ball and I put that on the back
45:12
burner and it's like life's too short
45:14
for that [ __ ] But I I need to have fun
45:16
more bro. This [ __ ] like weighs on me a
45:18
lot, you know, it's like
45:20
um
45:20
it the reason people are drawn to my art
45:24
is like
45:25
um
45:28
Like I really appreciate how much you
45:30
hear me because it's hard sometimes for
45:32
people that are like oh yeah, you're
45:34
doing good off your music and that's
45:35
really cool, but they're not seeing like
45:37
the weight that like it takes on me like
45:39
the toll to like go through this thought
45:42
and these feelings and be this type of
45:43
person that receives this type of energy
45:45
and [ __ ] and it's hard, you know what I
45:47
mean? So,
45:48
um
45:49
I got to do I need more hobbies, you
45:51
know.
45:51
You need some Yeah bro, you got to get
45:52
you outside man. We might we might have
45:54
to go you know, surfing body surfing or
45:56
something. I'm with it. Hang gliding.
46:00
Are you are you still in a relationship?
46:03
Yeah. Okay, uh, cuz you the the song,
46:06
um, off beat
46:08
Is off beat a love song?
46:11
Yeah, hell yeah, that's a love song.
46:13
That's a love song, right? Um, when when
46:15
you, um,
46:16
make songs like this, do you let your
46:18
girl hear them? Or do like does she
46:20
think they're all about her?
46:22
Yeah. Well, right now right now they
46:25
they are, you know, um,
46:27
and you know, it's funny. I'll tell you
46:29
this so funny cuz last time
46:31
uh, I was I was on the show
46:34
I said something about like cuz cuz uh,
46:37
somebody asked me, "Do you have a black
46:38
girlfriend?" I was like, "Oh, my
46:39
girlfriend's Puerto Rican." And it was
46:41
so funny. We did a show on tour in DC
46:44
and we came outside and my girl was with
46:45
me. We were walking. There was some fan
46:47
outside. They were like, "Yo, that's his
46:49
Puerto Rican girlfriend."
46:53
Yeah.
46:54
I was dying, bro. I was like, "Oh, no."
46:57
Uh,
46:58
and um,
46:59
Puerto Rico right there. That's she's
47:01
right. That's that's where she go, you
47:03
know, like yo, so um,
47:05
it was mad funny, but yeah, no, I mean,
47:07
like she she hears all those songs. I
47:10
mean, she's been I think anybody that's
47:12
been in a relationship this year through
47:14
all this [ __ ] is probably extra
47:16
grateful. First of all, they probably
47:17
gone through extra rougher times, too,
47:20
you know, the quarantine, but but also
47:22
extra grateful,
47:24
um, just and for her support and like me
47:26
being like such a handful that I am like
47:28
this ball of emotion and and artist is
47:30
so busy and like caught up in my [ __ ]
47:33
and she just always is like holding me
47:35
down and standing by me. And off beat, I
47:36
actually wrote
47:38
uh, like a year and some change ago on
47:41
the anniversary of Mac's death Mac
47:44
Miller. Mhm. I was in LA and my man we
47:46
were going to session to do a session
47:48
with my man Kev and
47:50
um, my man Dan. And Kev actually played
47:54
keys on the intro to Mac's last album on
47:56
Swimming before he passed.
47:58
Wow. And I Someone told me that I was on
48:00
the way to studio and I text Kevin. I
48:02
was like, "Yo,
48:03
yo, it's crazy. We got to have like this
48:05
crazy session today, man. Like it's in
48:07
the air." Yo, it was just in the air.
48:08
Like the first song we made was off beat
48:10
and it was the best one of the best days
48:12
of my life. Like we made off beat and
48:14
then Playing Pat came through later and
48:15
we made another song Playing Pat's not
48:17
out yet, but it was just like 11 hours
48:19
straight of just everything worked,
48:21
everything flowed, like everything came
48:24
to me, like it was off beat and um yeah,
48:27
man. That that that song so special to
48:29
to to me for for the combination of
48:31
reasons, you know. Yeah, you feel like
48:33
you kind of channeled
48:34
Mac energy, you know what I mean? Having
48:36
Kev there that particular day.
48:39
Yeah, like, you know, I put the line in
48:42
the song like on those days I really
48:44
wish Mac was still here and I really
48:46
That's why I I did that and like yeah,
48:48
you know, I'm not like mega
48:51
spiritual all time like that, but that
48:53
was I felt something, bro. Like it was
48:55
like it it was it just was
48:58
yeah, it was um it was just a special
49:00
day, man. Like we all felt it cuz that's
49:03
that same trio that made that that day
49:05
in person was the birth in many ways of
49:07
a lot of the album cuz that was the Zoom
49:09
Zoom trio, like, you know, that we just
49:11
were always doing Zooms together. So, it
49:13
was special. Man, I miss Mac, man. That
49:15
That That dude was um
49:18
That dude was very special, man. I mean,
49:21
I think we all realize it now. We can
49:22
appreciate it now, but that dude was
49:24
very talented, very special, man. I miss
49:26
that dude. I I heard that line in the
49:28
song, too.
49:29
Um it was like, I'm glad you, you know,
49:32
keep mentioning his name, bro. You know,
49:34
Yeah, always always, man. I I never got
49:37
to meet him, but he was such an
49:38
influence in like
49:40
just as a musician, like such a beast,
49:43
you know? Once you start to get to know
49:44
all these real life musician cats and
49:46
stuff, too, like in the in the game,
49:48
they all have mad respect for him. Like
49:49
he played everything, did so much
49:51
production, and
49:52
um
49:53
yeah, I mean just just uh
49:57
you know, there's very few people,
49:59
honestly, that I'm like, "Wow, I'd hype
50:00
to meet."
50:02
You know, in the game that I haven't met
50:03
with, or like, "I can't wait till I'm
50:05
this place and I can meet this person."
50:07
He was just always someone that I really
50:08
would like like like I'm just like,
50:10
"Damn, I'm never going to get to meet
50:12
that dude." Like that just really sucks.
50:15
Yeah, man. Uh
50:16
that does suck, but you know, you you
50:18
get to know him. I'm a firm believer
50:20
energy doesn't die. People pass on, but
50:23
the energy doesn't, you know? And I
50:25
think what when I said, "Do you feel
50:26
like you kind of channeled that energy?"
50:28
I believe that's possible. I think
50:30
that's
50:31
a realm of possibility that uh
50:33
maybe it's not within our capabilities
50:35
of you know, antiquating or putting it
50:38
in dollars and cents or names and
50:41
numbers or colors, but energy is energy,
50:43
bro. And I I definitely think it's
50:45
something you feel I think it's
50:46
something that exists. You mentioned Nip
50:48
Nipsey, too, in the song "Loyal." When
50:51
you talk about trying to build community
50:53
like Nip you know, and um
50:57
how much did Nip Nipsey Nipsey Hussle
50:59
influence you? How much did he impact
51:00
you as an artist?
51:02
Man, so I won't front like I wasn't
51:05
super like deep into the music for a lot
51:08
of years. I knew who he was, but like
51:09
kind of peripherally, and then I just
51:12
found him more and more. And then in
51:14
like the year before his passing, I was
51:16
really
51:17
like beginning to follow him more
51:19
because I was like understanding the the
51:21
business model and like all the things
51:23
that the innovation
51:25
that he'd done
51:27
and and the trail that he was blazing,
51:28
everything he stood for. And I was like,
51:30
"Yo, this dude is so important."
51:32
And um was really getting into the
51:33
music. And another crazy thing about
51:36
that is just that like when we were
51:37
shooting the video for "Gang Shit," it
51:40
was the last
51:43
right before the last scene, we'd been
51:44
shooting all day, and the very last
51:46
scene
51:47
at the end is like the family's there
51:49
and the kite burns in the sky and they
51:51
watch the kite burn.
51:53
And so all we had left was we were about
51:54
to go burn the kite and the whole video
51:56
had been shot and then we got the news
51:59
that Nipsey died
52:01
like on the set that day.
52:03
Um
52:04
and it was like
52:06
again like eerie. You know what I mean?
52:08
Like the timing of that for me it like
52:11
let me know
52:12
it just felt like I'm definitely doing
52:14
the right thing but also
52:17
like there's this scary weight. And um
52:21
so not to make not to make it like about
52:23
me or anything but that was just my
52:24
experience with receiving that news and
52:26
like um yeah man I just think he's such
52:28
an important dude like and and in terms
52:30
of like yo that that thing with the
52:31
album when he sold those albums for
52:33
$100. I didn't understand that. I was
52:35
just a kid and I was like what type of
52:37
[ __ ] is that? And cuz I've been
52:39
downloading everything on LimeWire I'm
52:40
like yo you bugging. But um now that I
52:42
know the game and like the scarcity
52:44
model and like that's like the whole
52:45
game now on the independent side and
52:47
it's just like the innovation and and um
52:50
just what yeah man. That's another dude
52:52
I really wish that I could have met and
52:55
chopped it up and and worked with. I
52:56
mean there's so many great people been
52:59
been taken from us. And I wrestle with
53:01
that sometimes too. Like I wonder like
53:03
you know it's like I think about that
53:04
this year a lot very heavily like you
53:06
know like what what nothing's promised
53:10
you know and like I want to be here for
53:12
a long time you know knock on wood but
53:14
if I'm not like what did I what did I
53:16
leave you know? So it just feels very
53:18
weighty this year so much death this
53:20
year you know what I mean? A lot of
53:21
death you know Pop Smoke got killed King
53:23
Von all these different artists and
53:26
I I I just man I liken it to you know
53:28
Big L or you know just
53:31
Biggie Pac you know for us you know it's
53:34
the same. I still feel the same thing
53:35
when I hear about these artists and
53:36
their lives being taken and this is your
53:39
you know your this is your era of MCing.
53:42
You know, and um
53:44
it puts a damper on things, you know,
53:46
just to say the least. You know, that's
53:48
why I think it's important that what you
53:49
do with this mic,
53:51
what you do on that camera, you know,
53:53
make sure it counts, you know, let's
53:55
definitely make sure it counts. The fact
53:56
that you're still here, you got the song
53:58
Grateful on the project and um man,
54:01
I'mma tell you a story real quick.
54:03
Because this song is like to me it seem
54:06
like it's dedicated to those who doubted
54:07
you, too.
54:09
Right? Dedicated to the Yeah, and and so
54:12
it I was telling somebody this today. I
54:14
was matter of fact, somebody I work at
54:16
Overtime TV, executive over there, um my
54:18
guy Bruce, we were talking
54:20
and we were talking about some projects
54:22
coming up and we were talking about
54:24
some history, some hip-hop history and
54:26
he was like, "Man, how did you get into
54:27
radio?" And I said, "Man, it was never a
54:30
plan." He said, "Really?" I said, "Nah,
54:32
man, I was MCing, man. I I wanted to do
54:34
like LL. I wanted to be, you know, I was
54:36
like, [ __ ] you know, Criminal Minded
54:38
was my first favorite album, you know,
54:41
um and so I I wanted to do that. I was
54:43
like anybody else,
54:45
but me and my partner King Tech had read
54:48
information about Hurby Luv Bug,
54:50
producer who produced Salt 'n' Pepa and
54:53
and Kid 'n' Play and and different
54:54
artists and they had a style and a sound
54:56
we liked and we heard that they went to
54:59
this school, uh New York School of
55:02
Technology or something, New York, one
55:04
of those New York schools Yeah, yeah.
55:06
that they went to to get a he got an
55:07
engineering degree, Salt 'n' Pepa went
55:09
there, too, I believe. And so we read
55:11
that and saved up our money and took a
55:13
trip from Cali to New York. Not knowing
55:16
nothing, kind of like y'all were walking
55:18
in these meetings thinking, "Okay, we
55:19
kind of smart, we going to figure this
55:20
[ __ ] out." Yeah. So we find a school and
55:24
we go in there and meet me and my
55:25
partner Tech.
55:27
And Tech knew what he wanted to do. He
55:28
was like, "Well, what do you want to
55:29
do?" I was like, "You know, I want to,
55:30
you know, get into engineering, we make
55:32
music and I want to make sure I learn
55:34
how to engineer it properly so the sound
55:36
is right and the levels are great. Okay,
55:38
you go to that department over there
55:39
that's down the hall. What about you?
55:41
And they looked at me, and I was like,
55:43
um and I just saw radio.
55:46
You know, they had a booklet or
55:47
something that said radio, right? And I
55:49
said, um radio, I'm interested in radio.
55:52
They said, okay, you go down the hall,
55:53
we're going to have you read some
55:54
things. So, I went into this studio, and
55:56
I started read bro, I was a killer
55:58
reader. You know what I mean? Like you
56:00
grown up in school, I you know, I I can
56:02
write, I can read, comprehend,
56:03
mathematics, that's me. And so, I'm
56:06
killing the reads, boom, boom, boom,
56:07
boom, but I'm from Oakland.
56:09
I'm from California, so my dialect was
56:11
different. And they looked at me, they
56:13
had me read again, and then they the
56:15
head of department called me in a room,
56:18
and said, I want to talk to you.
56:20
She said, I want to be honest with you.
56:22
You should never try to pursue radio.
56:25
You'll never get a job.
56:27
And I just want to be honest with you,
56:29
cuz I don't want you to waste your time
56:30
and money, and God bless that lady.
56:33
God bless that lady for telling me that.
56:35
I'm so grateful.
56:38
That she told me that, Marlon, because
56:40
it clicked something in me. I didn't
56:42
even really want to do radio. Yeah,
56:44
yeah.
56:45
It was the fact that she said that, I
56:47
said, wait a minute, wait a minute, hold
56:49
up.
56:50
Nah, man, that's not true. Nah, you it's
56:52
just not going to work. I said, I'm from
56:53
a different place, so maybe you don't
56:55
understand. Nah, it's not going to work.
56:57
It's not going to work?
56:59
Man, last year I got into the Radio Hall
57:01
of Fame.
57:03
Mhm.
57:04
I'm grateful that woman sparked that
57:06
fire in me, bro. Hell yeah, I love that.
57:09
I love that. Talk your [ __ ] That's the
57:10
whole energy of that of that song.
57:12
That's so beautiful. I love that. Yeah,
57:14
exactly. And that's what I thought when
57:16
I first heard that song. What else some
57:18
people said to you?
57:20
Oh man, I'll tell you I I'll tell you a
57:22
story. I
57:24
came up, my mans was working at like a
57:26
big music company type thing, and
57:30
I ain't trying to [ __ ] on them OD, but
57:32
I I always remember this. And I came up
57:34
from college cuz he like got me a
57:36
meeting with them.
57:37
And um came back home for the weekend.
57:40
It was like this big meeting. Went in
57:41
and I was trying to like show them some
57:43
music I made and make my case and what I
57:45
was going to do. And I was back then I
57:47
knew what I wanted to do. It was like J.
57:48
Cole had just did the Be Free joint on
57:51
like Letterman. And it was like and I
57:54
was like telling them like, "Yo, I want
57:56
to make music like that. But I think
57:58
that it can be different because I no
58:01
one's ever done it from like my
58:02
perspective, you know, in in that way
58:05
and
58:05
um
58:06
and I want to you know, whatever." I
58:08
remember this guy who was just like they
58:09
were talking to me and they were like
58:10
they were like, "He's like, let's be
58:11
real.
58:12
He can't make songs like that. He won't
58:15
make songs like that. He's not going to,
58:16
you know, like you're not going to be
58:18
able to, you know, do that whatever."
58:20
And my biggest songs are gang [ __ ] uh
58:23
State of the Union,
58:25
uh you know, like these are that that,
58:27
you know, people so many people in the
58:28
culture have respected and have made,
58:31
you know, big moments around. These
58:33
songs that have forwarded these
58:34
dialogues in my own way. So, when I look
58:36
back at like
58:38
that and being like, "Nah, [ __ ] that.
58:40
Like watch. Like, you know what I'm
58:42
saying?" And and I'm really proud of
58:44
that. Like those those those pillars of
58:46
my career in that way. But so many
58:48
people, man, like I mean, yo, and then
58:50
people don't realize, too. It's like
58:52
once you get a little bit of fame,
58:54
everyone thinks everything's so easy.
58:55
It's like, "Yo, bro, you know what it
58:57
was like being home, have living in my
59:00
parents' crib, looking like me, having
59:02
no fans, no notoriety, and everyone
59:04
asking you, "Yo, so what are you doing?"
59:06
I had this EP after pieces called So,
59:08
What Are You Doing? Because everyone
59:10
asked me, "So, what are you doing?" And
59:11
I'd be like, "Um I'm I'm trying to rap."
59:14
Like, do you know how that felt? Like
59:15
the emptiness every time and the looks
59:18
and the [ __ ] it, you know what I'm
59:19
saying? So, I just took all that in and
59:21
I'm just like and the gratitude, bro.
59:23
It's like you meet that with the
59:24
gratitude because it thickened my skin
59:26
and it made me know that this is what I
59:28
want to do. I had to get so good. I had
59:30
to get so good so that they can no one
59:31
could say [ __ ] and it's been like that
59:33
my whole life since basketball. It was
59:35
like, you know, I had to be so good that
59:37
can't nobody say [ __ ] and they still
59:39
going to say [ __ ] but
59:41
but you whatever, you know what I mean?
59:42
So
59:43
it bounce off you because you know your
59:44
[ __ ] You know what I mean? Yeah,
59:47
exactly.
59:47
Yo, that man said you was never going to
59:49
be able to make songs, bro. I I love it,
59:52
man. We all got those stories, man. I I
59:54
I promise I I
59:57
I don't like to say the name of the
59:58
school in my story because people will
1:00:00
research it and I really don't want
1:00:01
people I don't say the year it happened
1:00:03
cuz I don't want people to go after that
1:00:05
woman. Right, right.
1:00:06
you know, and and and folks who tell you
1:00:09
what you can't do sometimes, man. That's
1:00:12
all you need to hear.
1:00:13
It's what you can't do. I like your song
1:00:15
hoodie weather, too. Um, that's in the
1:00:18
front of the album. I I
1:00:19
I enjoyed a lot of um
1:00:22
with the energy I I enjoyed the spirit
1:00:25
of that song, you know, hoodie weather.
1:00:27
At what point did you write that? Where
1:00:28
were you?
1:00:30
That was like one of the more recent
1:00:31
ones, you know, it was during uh the
1:00:34
George Floyd protests. You know, I wrote
1:00:36
I did that and I did looking up, you
1:00:38
know, I think in the same couple days
1:00:40
the same week like during when it was
1:00:42
like all the protests were going on
1:00:43
outside and um it just felt very
1:00:46
apocalyptic cuz everything was so real
1:00:48
so shut down and there was all this
1:00:50
energy and um
1:00:53
yeah, and hoodie weather was just like,
1:00:55
man, this feels like you know, it's like
1:00:57
a political song but it's like very
1:00:59
simple like minimal production. It's
1:01:01
kind of like anthemic, you know what I
1:01:02
mean? And
1:01:03
and um and I think the big challenge,
1:01:06
you know, the question is like
1:01:09
yeah, what's like when it's hoodie
1:01:10
weather when it's not hoodie weather
1:01:11
like are we still are we still showing
1:01:13
up? You know what I mean? Like is once
1:01:14
the season passes, you know. Do you feel
1:01:17
like the urgency has left? Like some of
1:01:19
the air has left out of the urgency like
1:01:22
at one point the country everybody was
1:01:24
tuned in one way or the other but we
1:01:26
were all tuned in and it's you know now
1:01:28
you see a different administration come
1:01:30
in that's that represents change the
1:01:32
insurrection happened and it like came
1:01:34
and gone like it was an album. Somebody
1:01:36
dropped you know [ __ ] it only it only it
1:01:39
only streamed for a week. Yeah. You know
1:01:42
what I mean and then I just feel like
1:01:44
you know we we saw this in the past you
1:01:45
think people lost their urgency?
1:01:49
Yeah, definitely. I mean like like you
1:01:52
know I felt it
1:01:54
I during that whole time I wrote a song
1:01:56
called time will tell. And that song was
1:01:59
like I like we had the music around it I
1:02:02
had this painter do this awesome like
1:02:04
painting that was based on this old
1:02:06
painting from the revolutionary war but
1:02:08
it was like updated for now and then and
1:02:11
we did this crazy ill video with all
1:02:13
this like special effects and my my
1:02:15
methodology was like everybody is like
1:02:17
rushing to say something. First of all I
1:02:20
need to let
1:02:21
you know black artists take the front
1:02:23
seat you know what I'm saying right now
1:02:24
and wait my turn like let them speak.
1:02:27
But also what I've done a lot in the
1:02:28
past is I've jumped to a moment find a
1:02:30
beat write it like let's get it up
1:02:32
online. I'm like no let me give this the
1:02:34
same
1:02:35
attention and artistry I would give an
1:02:36
album so I worked on that piece really
1:02:38
hard. I thought it was really powerful.
1:02:41
And
1:02:42
it was very appreciated when it came out
1:02:44
by whoever like appreciated it whatever
1:02:46
but it really did feel that way it felt
1:02:48
like the moment had passed. Like it cuz
1:02:50
it cuz it took me a few months to get it
1:02:52
together and it was like it just felt
1:02:54
like the moment had passed and it was
1:02:55
kind of like damn that's the exact
1:02:57
reason why I took so long because I'm
1:03:00
like no I'm not rushing to a moment
1:03:01
there is no moment the moment is
1:03:03
continuous but it was like the
1:03:05
confirmation of that problem because it
1:03:08
really did feel like the moment had
1:03:09
passed. And I mean now it's the same
1:03:11
thing like today right it's like
1:03:13
you know with with the Asian American
1:03:15
hate that we got going on and the
1:03:17
violence and everything like that. It's
1:03:18
like you just hope that
1:03:20
we can institutionalize both in our
1:03:22
institutions and in our mind and our
1:03:23
souls and our emotions and our psychics,
1:03:26
like
1:03:27
change and and and making an effort to
1:03:29
be a part of change because you just see
1:03:31
these things come they just come and
1:03:32
they go. It's like flavor
1:03:35
flavor of the month, man. It's hard to
1:03:37
to watch, you know what I'm saying? I
1:03:39
you know. Man, that thing move like
1:03:41
seasons. It's like, you know, a certain
1:03:42
time of the year you're going to be able
1:03:44
to catch straight bass. You know, it's a
1:03:45
season for them. You know, they
1:03:48
they running up the Hudson only at a
1:03:49
certain time of the year. And when it
1:03:51
happens though, you got to get out there
1:03:53
and capitalize. It's cyclical. So, you
1:03:55
know, the same similarly everything is
1:03:58
different, but you know, in in the early
1:03:59
'90s we marched because of Rodney King,
1:04:02
you know, and and and it's been many
1:04:04
marches since, January 6th, so on and so
1:04:07
forth.
1:04:08
Um and and people do go about their
1:04:11
lives differently. They have they're
1:04:13
affected and they're impacted, but it's
1:04:15
great to see some road signs.
1:04:18
Yeah. As you going through life. It's
1:04:20
good to see the road sign. Wait, what
1:04:21
was that Marlon crap just made? Oh,
1:04:23
okay.
1:04:24
All right. Okay. You know, you're going
1:04:26
down the road, time passes by. Damn,
1:04:28
Marlon crap just dropped another
1:04:31
Yo, that kid staying consistent and then
1:04:33
the storm comes back. Right. Four years
1:04:36
later.
1:04:37
And you already been keeping them
1:04:38
educated and and keeping them in tune to
1:04:41
some extent and you keeping yourself and
1:04:43
you not and you not and you're doing it
1:04:46
because it needs to be done.
1:04:48
You know. And I'm I'm sorry I cut you
1:04:50
off, but I I'll tell you too, like the
1:04:52
other thing that happened there was that
1:04:54
meeting, but like I was making all these
1:04:56
freestyles early on was all stuff was
1:04:57
mad political. And these people were
1:04:59
telling me all the time that like, "Oh,
1:05:00
you're going to get put in this
1:05:01
political box. Oh, you're going to be
1:05:03
the conscious rapper." Like like evading
1:05:05
that label and all that stuff. But I'll
1:05:07
tell you what, man,
1:05:09
those few weeks when the world was shut
1:05:11
down and everybody was protesting and
1:05:12
nobody was saying that [ __ ] to me then.
1:05:14
Mhm. Everybody was looking to me for
1:05:16
advice. Mhm. You know what I'm saying?
1:05:19
Other white artists, like I felt that
1:05:21
energy too like of being like
1:05:23
oh [ __ ] you're the guy that's been kind
1:05:24
of doing this for a minute, huh? Let me
1:05:26
look at what you're doing. Yeah. I felt
1:05:28
really proud during that time when I
1:05:29
looked back at my [ __ ] of like work over
1:05:32
over the years
1:05:33
of being like
1:05:35
Nah, and cuz I get the imposter syndrome
1:05:37
too, you know, like I'm not like there's
1:05:38
so I can do better in so many ways and I
1:05:41
question all the time if I'm even doing
1:05:43
[ __ ] You know, it's like but I look at
1:05:46
that and during that time and I was like
1:05:48
that was like yo, you stay on your
1:05:50
purpose because when these moments
1:05:52
happen it's like then what? No one wants
1:05:55
to hear the song about like, you know,
1:05:58
like then there's room for all I love
1:05:59
all types of music but They don't want
1:06:01
to hear that that kind of
1:06:03
That real [ __ ]
1:06:04
change music. That change music that
1:06:06
that someone that's giving it to them
1:06:07
straight and they want to have someone
1:06:09
to turn to during that time. And like
1:06:11
that's the role that I want to fill, you
1:06:13
know. Little Baby had his bigger
1:06:15
picture.
1:06:16
That's change music. One of his that
1:06:18
will go down in for him and his legacy
1:06:20
one of his most
1:06:21
powerful songs he ever made. You know,
1:06:24
that's change music. Um I find that
1:06:26
interesting that white artists came to
1:06:28
you for advice.
1:06:29
Well,
1:06:30
I wouldn't say like
1:06:33
super outwardly but like
1:06:37
you could tell, you know what I'm
1:06:38
They're beating around the bush like hey
1:06:40
Yeah, you could tell. It a lot of it was
1:06:42
like
1:06:44
it's trying to feel out like am I one of
1:06:46
the people that you're talking about?
1:06:49
Like you know, like it was almost like
1:06:50
or or a lot of people like somebody
1:06:53
you know, somebody
1:06:54
check it like call somebody close to me
1:06:56
and be like
1:06:58
was he talking about me, you know what
1:06:59
I'm saying? Like what did like [ __ ] like
1:07:01
that would to know that it's like oh,
1:07:03
but people are watching in times like
1:07:04
this what what someone like me has to
1:07:07
say and um
1:07:09
you know, it was it was interesting. It
1:07:12
was definitely interesting to see. And
1:07:14
and the feeling that too, like I didn't
1:07:15
feel like like like you talk about
1:07:16
staying the course. I didn't feel like I
1:07:18
had to to rush to anything because it
1:07:21
was like, all right, what do we how do
1:07:22
we actually make impact and sustain it,
1:07:25
you know? And it's hard, man. Like I I I
1:07:27
don't know. Like I don't have the
1:07:28
answers, you know? Yeah. Neither do I,
1:07:30
bro. You just keep working.
1:07:34
Uh man, uh the outro of the album, man,
1:07:37
I
1:07:38
I like
1:07:39
your introspect. I like when you talk to
1:07:42
us, you know what I mean? And how how
1:07:44
did you want to end the album?
1:07:47
What made you want to end it like you
1:07:48
did?
1:07:49
Um well, so the the two interludes on
1:07:53
the album, there's like the interlude
1:07:55
and then the outro and they're both part
1:07:57
of this long sort of like poem narrative
1:08:00
thing that I wrote um that kind of tells
1:08:02
the story of
1:08:04
the album and the last and the year of
1:08:06
2020, you know, for me. And and it uses
1:08:10
all the album titles. Um so like they're
1:08:13
within there. Um and some of them are
1:08:16
like easy to catch, some of them are
1:08:18
not, but it kind of like in the order
1:08:20
that the album is ordered uses those to
1:08:22
describe. So I knew I was like, I'm
1:08:25
going to break these up and I had the
1:08:27
homies we get together and we scored the
1:08:28
music around like what I had written. Um
1:08:31
and so I just wanted to tie everything
1:08:33
together and say like it's like this is
1:08:35
kind of how I got here like over the
1:08:37
course of this crazy year, like this is
1:08:39
from where it started and what my
1:08:40
intention was when the year started to
1:08:43
where it ended and what I'm leaving
1:08:44
with. Um and
1:08:46
I love that type of [ __ ] man. Like
1:08:49
those like
1:08:51
glass berry chords with the [ __ ]
1:08:53
stacks of my man. When he sent me that
1:08:55
stacks back, yo, I was like I with
1:08:58
there's this one note that he hits where
1:08:59
he's kind of like shrieking with the
1:09:01
stacks that like it gets like a tear out
1:09:03
of me every time. It just feels very
1:09:05
emotive to me. So,
1:09:07
and and also it's because I had In the
1:09:09
End as the last song.
1:09:12
And I love that song, too, but it was
1:09:13
like a little more like bluesy and like
1:09:16
happy and like it just didn't quite feel
1:09:19
right for Maricraft for me to like end
1:09:22
it. Like I was like, "Let's bring it
1:09:23
back to the jazz, man. We got to bring
1:09:25
it home. You know what I mean?" Yeah.
1:09:28
Great job, bro. Bravo. I know we've been
1:09:30
trying to do this for a minute, um, but
1:09:32
I'm glad we're doing it now.
1:09:35
Because I went back and started
1:09:36
listening to the album again. And it was
1:09:38
like, "Yo, this thing still sound good."
1:09:40
You know, sometimes you know, yeah. You
1:09:42
know, sometimes albums be having two or
1:09:44
three cycle burns and then, you know,
1:09:46
but I can sit back and listen to it. I'm
1:09:49
I'm excited to hear what you do next
1:09:50
musically. And I want to, um, make a
1:09:53
request Ooh. that you you that what if
1:09:56
it comes to you that you make one of the
1:09:58
funniest songs you made to date.
1:10:01
Yeah. That people could dance to.
1:10:03
I got some I got a couple, yo. I got
1:10:06
some I got some interesting so
1:10:08
the the challenge for me now is to try
1:10:10
to figure out like how and in what order
1:10:12
to release a lot of stuff because I made
1:10:14
so much music. Like I basically got a
1:10:16
whole other album in the cut in the tuck
1:10:18
like that I just it's like 80% of the
1:10:20
way there. I just got to really get in
1:10:22
finish. And then I got this EP
1:10:24
that is kind of like in the mom's
1:10:26
whiskey bag of like just that me kind of
1:10:30
it's kind of like the project I made
1:10:31
while making How We Intended. It's like
1:10:34
wrestling with all the new emotions of
1:10:35
being in new space, real introspective
1:10:38
and vulnerable, little like, you know,
1:10:40
these types of things.
1:10:41
Um, so I got so many different types of
1:10:44
songs and music. And what I've watched
1:10:47
and seen is that the way to really do
1:10:48
it, especially independently, is to be
1:10:50
really consistent. So, I think for me
1:10:53
it's going to be about like when it's
1:10:55
album time, it's going to be like I'm
1:10:56
going to make it known and it's like,
1:10:58
yo, this is the next step in the musical
1:11:02
legacy of Marlon Craft and this is the
1:11:04
third album and here it is. And then in
1:11:07
the in between, it's like, here's all
1:11:09
these other songs, like have them, live
1:11:11
with them. Here's this little EP with
1:11:13
maybe with this producer, here's this
1:11:14
with that because
1:11:16
otherwise
1:11:18
all these songs are just going to sit on
1:11:20
my computer and like not go to people
1:11:22
that are going to [ __ ] with them, you
1:11:24
know? Yeah.
1:11:25
And not go towards helping me build my
1:11:26
audience, frankly. Mhm.
1:11:28
So, um
1:11:29
so figuring out like how to do all that
1:11:31
in the in between is going to be
1:11:33
interesting, but I'm I'm coming with it.
1:11:35
I got a new I'm I'm going to drop off
1:11:36
like a new
1:11:38
little something for them next week or
1:11:39
two, man. Some that I think you'll [ __ ]
1:11:41
with, real musical and dope. Okay, shoot
1:11:43
it to me. Um
1:11:44
Yeah, I will. Marlon Craft, brother,
1:11:46
it's always good to talk to you, family.
1:11:48
Come on, man. All right.
1:11:50
Thank you, man. I really appreciate it.
1:11:51
It's good to talk to you always. Turn up
1:11:53
the volume.
#Arts & Entertainment