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Mental Health | First Responders & Veterans
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Feb 6, 2025
Welcome to Adaptable | Behavior Explained! In this video, we explore the critical topic of mental health among first responders. Firefighters, police officers, paramedics, and other emergency personnel face unique challenges and stressors in their line of duty. The nature of their work often involves high-pressure situations, trauma exposure, and the responsibility of saving lives. These experiences can take a toll on their mental well-being. Join us as we delve into the importance of mental health support for these everyday heroes. We'll discuss common mental health issues faced by first responders, such as PTSD, anxiety, depression, and burnout. We'll also highlight the importance of seeking help, available resources, and practical strategies for maintaining mental wellness. Whether you're a first responder, a family member, or someone interested in the topic, this video offers valuable insights and guidance on prioritizing mental health. Remember, taking care of yourself is as crucial as taking care of others. 🔔 Don't forget to like, comment, and subscribe for more content on mental health and well-being! I'm Kelly O'Horo, Attachment based EMDR Therapist, EMDRIA Consultant, and Advanced Trainer. I'm a mom of 5, Nonna of 5, wife, and a healer. I have the honor of spending my workdays walking along side people while they brave their healing journeys. I try to live with the generous assumption that we're all doing the best we can with what we know. Therapists are teachers for the "life stuff" and "emotional vocabulary" that may not have been learned due to gaps in our care givers capabilities. In the last 15 years I've learned that people are freaking amazing, resilient, and inspiring. Most importantly, we are hardwired for connection and for healing! I hope to bring an authentic, compassionate, and unpolished approach while we explore a variety of topics such as parenting, marriage, relationships, dating, trauma, attachment, adoption, depression, addiction, anxiety, and love! There's a why for all behaviors and an explanation that makes perfect sense as emotion is at the root of it all. -- Links -- https://linktr.ee/kellyohorolpc https://youtu.be/rLnARKekvgo https://www.emdria.org/find-an-emdr-therapist/ *This video contains content that may be disturbing to some viewers, including [mention specific content, e.g., graphic violence, discussions of self-harm, or strong language]. Viewer discretion is advised.
View Video Transcript
0:06
hi everyone I'm Kell ooro and this is adaptable Behavior explained hi there
0:12
thank you so much for tuning in today I'm really excited to have with me my uh guest for today's topic on First
0:20
Responders and mental health I it is a topic very near and dear to my heart I see many First Responders in the town I
0:27
live in Gilbert Arizona I love working with them uh I am I am especially uh hopeful that
0:34
the work that I do and a show like this can help more First Responders seek help
0:40
uh everybody could use a therapist and First Responders are not different in that way I've got with me my son Jacob
0:46
who fits the bill on that he is a paramedic and he is also a veteran so
0:51
Jacob will you uh introduce yourself and thank you again so much for being here I really really appreciate it thanks for
0:57
having me so obviously my name is Jacob I usually go by Jake um I am the second
1:04
youngest of uh many many boys uh and on top of that I've been married to my
1:10
beautiful wife Taylor we've been married for going on 10 years right now a father of three uh Navy veteran followed my
1:16
dad's footsteps into joining the military and I've been a first responder working as a paramedic for the last two
1:23
years that's awesome and something that I think is so special about the following in in Dad's footsteps are you
1:30
were stationed on the same Navy ship that he served on uh the nits and it's
1:35
been decommissioned since right no uh I believe the nimit is still in service
1:40
right now okay um but I was attached to vfa 154 the Black Knights and so working
1:46
on the f18s on the flight deck it was real fun it was a real blast I was so nervous
1:52
because it is such a dangerous job you know Dad was like that's great you know
1:57
it's second to um being in combat directly on the ground being on a flight
2:03
deck in the Navy because of the danger and I was just like of course he's going to remember um exactly what statistic I
2:11
had seen but I can't claim that it's a real statistic or anything like that uh
2:16
but the statistic itself was that the average life expectancy of somebody on a flight deck of a active aircraft carrier
2:23
is that of like 14 seconds if they're not trained and what they're doing oh just the head on the swivel aspect
2:30
hyper vigilance is Extreme hyper vigilance uh on top of just having your
2:36
head on a swivel and and really being aware of every single thing that's going around you whether or not it's you
2:42
moving or there's 19 other things moving in the same time right and several of which are life-threatening if you come
2:48
into contact with them so so I mean being hypervigilant is a necessity of the role in the military no question
2:56
especially in the job that you played and knowing you like I do your attention to detail is so um awesome like you're
3:03
so you notice things and details on things that are that so many people don't and I think that probably really
3:09
served you as far as that paying attention thing and and noticing yeah it's it's I looked out on the sidey of
3:15
ADHD of uh having like the hyperfocusing right um side I it definitely helped me
3:22
with my time in the military and especially now uh working as a paramedic just being able to notice all the little
3:28
minute details uh that normal people wouldn't really notice and uh with that
3:34
it has had some unfortunate side effects where now I'm constantly on watch all
3:39
the time um yeah I just like I I ran into struggles all the time going out to things like clubs um just going out in
3:47
general drinking it's I always had to be 100% on alert and just aware of
3:53
everything that's going on I have to be the one that's like mostly sober and it kept you alive I mean you well and I
3:59
think you know I'd love you to tell the story of when um you you know you did let your hair down a little bit on an
4:04
experience in the Navy when you went out and uh didn't someone mess with you
4:10
about the drinking thing and it just even that like you tried to take yourself into a relaxed situation and
4:15
and you know and relax and then you end up getting screwed with by what you're not condoning underage drinking at all
4:22
but in uh of course my little hooligan times of being new into the Navy
4:27
everybody kind of partakes at some point in some s of uh some type of shenanigans right uh in that in that case I was
4:35
drinking with some friends and I only had like a beard too it was nothing crazy um but they they played a joke on
4:42
me and they had one of the guys come in and fake arrest me oh for underage drinking and I have always been like the
4:50
largest rule follower to the tea um everything from yeah he does not
4:56
want to be in trouble you give me like an object and I'm supposed to to keep it nice I'm going to hold that on to that
5:02
thing I know with your backpack yeah U with that but I'm going to hold on to it
5:07
and I'm going to make sure that it's 100% taken care of that it's going to be in the condition it needs to be but in
5:13
that situation um I I I very much went down I
5:19
got some respect out of it which was nice because they they kind of were like oh well who gave you alcohol and
5:24
everything like that and I didn't snitch on anybody I was like oh it's mine I had it the whole time Dad got busted down in
5:30
rank because he didn't snitch on someone in actual getting in trouble in a drinking experience when he was young he wouldn't it happens he wouldn't read
5:36
anybody out and they said now you're going to lose a strip because you were you know basically contributing to the delinquency of somebody so and it's part
5:42
of the accountability a lot being in the military is just the accountability of being able to
5:49
one fess up for any kind of mistakes uh and that's one of the I think the biggest things that I did learn in the
5:55
military was accountability yeah um well the structure I mean you mentioned having ADHD and um so many it has one of
6:03
the highest populations of ADHD people as the military uh specifically the Army and I think that's because there's so
6:10
much structure and the rudimentary uh requirements are actually really beneficial for someone with ADHD
6:16
because having those constraints around you really makes you more successful so it makes sense that you did really well
6:22
in the military I mean didn't you you got first in your boot camp I don't know if it was first I wasn't first in my
6:28
boot camp class uh you got an award right at the beginning what was it I did get a meritorious promotion in boot camp
6:34
um I was definitely a little lazy when it came to joining the military uh there
6:39
was the the military offers at least the Navy from the time that I had joined offered a program that if you studied
6:46
the guide uh the guide book or the manual and really learned about the basics of the the Navy itself there was
6:53
a test that you take at the beginning of boot camp and if you got a 100% on that test you get meritoriously PR Ed to the
7:00
next rank that's right I'm like I knew you got something right that's not what I got oh what did you get because I
7:05
didn't study I didn't I didn't take the time to study that I think I missed like one or two questions on that exact test
7:12
uh but throughout the the boot camp depending on your activity and how you
7:19
hold yourself and how you work as a team and as an individual uh following
7:25
directions guidelines and protocols uh the your commanding officers have a chance to meritoriously
7:32
promote a few individuals and I was selected as one of those meritorious promotions that makes so much sense to
7:37
me like if you're given the the way to be successful I I really hardly know
7:43
anybody that does that better than you I mean you're just so impressive in that way if you've got the guidelines you're
7:48
good to you're good to execute that's usually for me is I I really like to
7:54
pride myself on uh my attention to detail as well as being able to follow
7:59
in instructions if I'm given a set like I'm going to follow it to the tea again right uh and so that kind of helps me
8:05
with my future right now of working towards graphic design and being a student right now at ASU right um but
8:12
that really Falls in mind which is so cool that you're also creative and all those things yeah I I tend to dabble
8:17
here and there I found a little bit more love in the creative side sure and it's always been a thing that you were good
8:23
at I mean growing up yeah and the freedom and the agency that it'll give me to kind of take more control of my
8:29
life sure uh especially in a sense of right now and my history it's just been
8:35
more of I kind of fly by the seat of somebody else's pants right you have to be at the becking call of whoever you
8:41
work for I mean and that's really the case for most of us unless you are your own company or you are an independent
8:47
contractor you really do have to kind of show up and and suit up as someone asks which definitely as a paramedic there's
8:53
just not a lot of wiggle room when it comes to your schedule and the trucks that you're on and all of that good
8:58
stuff so that kind of leads me to my my first question for you is how has uh you know in the topic of
9:05
mental health how has being a veteran and first responder affected your mental health in general uh as far as my mental
9:13
health went in the military I I don't think I suffered too much from uh the negatives of mental
9:20
health or the the negative effects that the military can bring towards mental health uh being in the Navy and being
9:26
attached to a squadron and an aircraft carrier I wasn't necessarily in the most dangerous areas uh during my uh during
9:34
my deployment I think you under under represent some things cuz some of the stories you've told me about like a
9:41
person in an intake and fatality I mean that's a big deal yeah with every with
9:48
every deployment you are going to have your fatalities you're going to have uh each stressor uh that's going to be
9:54
different and I was just more comparing to the fact that like I wasn't on boots on the ground in Afghan
10:00
with that type of stress and so the stress is different right but I think I really want to zero in on just uh the
10:08
your perspective and the and the natural propensity that is really common for most First Responders is they minimize
10:15
and deny their emotional or stress experiences because they do that comparative suffering they're like well
10:20
I wasn't here being a bullet sponge and it's like you literally saw a guy die and you don't recognize how much that
10:26
impacts the nervous system and and I think that's part of why I wanted you to come on the show is so many First
10:32
Responders are like it wasn't that big of a deal and it's like it's a really big deal you know it's a really big deal
10:38
and so um what do you think you've noticed when it comes to well I don't to
10:43
interrupt but related to like additional mental health uh concerns as you've progressed as a paramedic you were in
10:50
working for fire and now for an independent Ambulance Company uh so I guess starting back at the beginning
10:56
with the military is uh it really focuses heavy on desensitization mhm uh
11:01
and so I know especially with being an aircraft mechanic an aviation structural mechanic to be exact one of the biggest
11:06
things that we have to deal with is the possibility of exploding tires because
11:12
uh our tires were split Rim uh meaning that they split in half and the tire pressures that we had were anywhere from
11:20
350 uh to like 375 and so you're you're talking about it in physicality it's
11:25
like basically a bomb mhm in that sense and Even in our school um they showed us
11:33
videos of people getting legs blown off and because they're really trying to cement uh the guidelines and all the
11:40
dangers of this situation like if you don't pay attention to this this is the potential outcome and that and that's
11:46
how the military and like paramedicine being a first responder whether it's police uh whether you're EMS or anything
11:55
in those in those Realms is the rules are Written in Blood right so everything is learned from somebody else's previous
12:02
mistake sure uh and so again in that it's really like the desensi
12:09
desensitization of everything and and that kind of spills into your personal life and for me with that I I can't say
12:18
that I really noticed it like you were saying it's it's kind of brushed off a lot throughout the military and even I
12:23
only did four years and the effects that I've noticed now after being out since 2006 16 it it's definitely poured into
12:31
my personal life well and then compiling with continuing first responder attributes and hypervigilance as a
12:38
paramedic so talk a little bit about what you've noticed about that so with
12:43
the with the paramedic side uh I I definitely noticed a dip in empathy uh as far as like repeat calls
12:50
being tired on on shift um I moved I started when I worked in EMS I worked 48
12:56
hour shifts so it was 2 days on uh at the St you'd sleep at the station and then you have 4 days off which that is
13:03
actually like a preferred schedule for a lot of First Responders because that gives you the most amount of time at
13:09
home right um but the thing with that is so you're you're kind of working on an
13:14
emphasis of possibility of being tired uh you're having the you're you're responding to calls and every single
13:21
time at the beginning of your career in EMS you're always going to start off so optimistic you're going to be ready
13:26
you're going to be out of school like for me I was super super excited um to
13:31
like help people I was super excited to get out there and and kind of do my part for the community and and in general
13:39
I've kind of noticed myself to be a little bit of a rescuer um as it as it goes and so what
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I've noticed first was a decrease in empathy towards um towards others as
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well as a mental numbness and mass dissociation when it comes to lot of
13:59
stuff it's uh like when I'm in the zone and I'm kind of responding to to scenes
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um I very much can just mentally turn everything off except for the current
14:12
situation and whatever training I've received yeah in my work we we kind of call that Peak Performance dissociation
14:17
it's like it's necessary because we don't we can't be you know responding to somebody who's in an emergency situation
14:24
and be thinking about oh I need to take care of this when I get home or oh I hope that I can and pay my taxes like
14:30
there's no time for that you have to just be right here right now so that you don't make a mistake and so what serves
14:36
you can be you know it's too it can be too good of a or too much of a good thing and so I think that that that's
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really good insight and awareness that you have that um I in the response to numbness numbness or a lack of empathy
14:49
or a dip in empathy I should say you know I can remember when when I shared with you that grandma died and I said
14:55
how are you about it and you said I think uh my job broke me is what you said to me I I think my job broke me
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because you were just like I don't I can't feel it the way you should feel it you know and um you know and you love
15:09
her and so of course I know this about you and so that I think that's a really interesting side and then you know my
15:15
experience with clients is that then they feel shame about that like what's wrong with me that I don't feel this and
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I've had that be a pretty much unanimous description of how it is with First Responders namely fire um because of
15:29
that same experience you're sharing so uh it it really resonates with probably
15:34
many First Responders so given that there's an ongoing sense of stress how do you manage stress uh in your body uh
15:42
outside of work because that's it's a given it's a it's a a sure thing I mean everybody's going to have their go-tos
15:49
um I kind of have a positive feeling state with video games I've always I've always had one as a kid just remember
15:55
escapism yeah yeah it's Escape allows you to kind of go into your own little world uh and for me especially with um
16:02
the past uh that I have as well as my brothers and growing up one of the best things that we had to look forward to
16:09
was like an old school Nintendo 64 right and so that's what we had to pass the time it's what we had to look forward to
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everything well and there's connection involved with it and there's play and there's fantasy and there's like all sorts of you know positive uh attributes
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of playing a video game yeah so I've always had a fond spot um for video games but other than that I really try
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to sit down and I try to focus on spending time with my wife and kids uh
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just because for me that's that's really my closest Circle um I tend to not
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really actually go out with a lot of people I don't really go do a lot of things I'm very much a home body um
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which is something that I also have learned about myself over time is uh given with the kind of experience that
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being a first responder and being a veteran uh or an active duty at that time kind of does is it kind of makes
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you come out of your shell um especially when you are naturally like an introvert and so I always thought of myself as an
17:05
extroverted person but naturally now have found myself to be extremely introverted like just needing your alone
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time to recharge yeah I like to call it like I'm an extroverted introvert because it's like I can go talk to
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whoever um my battery runs out and I'm just like okay I'm done I can go sit inside for three days and I will be fine
17:25
well you know and I think that's good again self-awareness and insight how have you experienced the um culture
17:33
of that pull up your bootstraps mentality uh in first responder and Military culture what what has your
17:38
experience of that been so for the the pull up by the pull it up by the bootstraps mentality um with that with
17:44
the military it it's just kind of given uh again we kind of already touched on that aside from uh it being kind of more
17:52
mass desensitization um if something is bugging you there are people to talk to
17:58
in the military mhm uh now especially in the in the Navy we had the chaplain who was always available to talk to you um
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we didn't really have any therapists or anything like that but if if you were struggling with anything there are so
18:09
many Avenues now for active duty and Veterans to go through uh but for my
18:15
time personally I didn't run into too much of an issue uh with that in the
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Navy MH um I think two I was a little younger now I was only 18 when I joined
18:26
and got out at 22 so a little more resilient during that time so I I really
18:31
didn't run into it as much in the military um as far as uh Emergency
18:38
Medical Services go you can kind of see that there is a mentality difference between some of the older
18:44
generation uh employees and some of the newer generation and I don't think it's as much of a problem with people not
18:51
respecting mental health as much as it's how people learned right and so a lot
18:57
perception of your resilience or like are you strong or are you not cuz I see
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I see clients that are fire and police at both ends of the age Spectrum you know where some are uh older and they've
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been at it for 20 years and then I see some that are younger and they're brand new at it and they've been raised like
19:16
you're saying more of a culture of you know emotions are all humans and vulnerability is not weakness and saying
19:23
how you feel is not weakness and all of those uh all of those things and that's even something just generation
19:29
and societally that we are seeing right now is just an emergence of mental health being kind of upfront and forward
19:35
you know you have uh inside out which been the new the biggest Disney movies that have come out recently and it's all
19:43
emotions forward right but it's how we're it's how we're made it's how we're wired and First Responders oftentimes
19:48
come with this belief that like I'm not like everyone else and one of the first things I tell my clients when I see them
19:54
I'm like you're just a mammal like everyone and we all have our capacity uh
20:00
limits and and so when you think about what you're asking your body to be exposed to on The Daily you're going to
20:07
run out of capacity at some point as well it's not if it's when and if you're lucky enough to avert some physical
20:13
personal injury or some you know horrifically catastrophic incident that
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just lingers and sticks with you you know you would be a rare person when it gets when you get out of the military or
20:25
stop serving there's a statistic for military or not military rather but fire they did a study out of Chicago Fire and
20:32
what they found was that the life expectancy of a firefighter is 20 years
20:37
reduced than the normal population after retirement because of the exacerbated cortisol and adrenal levels in the body
20:45
over time we're not meant to be at that space for so long and so I mean I'm so
20:50
glad that there's been a cultural shift because you know you guys more than anyone deserve to have some peace and
20:56
freedom as our Rescuers and Our Heroes and what makes our uh you know society
21:01
and our communities feel safe and then if you guys have a short life expectancy D due to health injuries that happen uh
21:09
related to those cortisol issues it just sucks it's really unfair so I'm really glad to hear that that's one of my
21:15
personal desires is to help change the the face of that culturally so that First Responders see other first First
21:22
Responders like you who are willing to go address this kind of stuff as more resilient and smarter and more you know
21:29
more resourceful I think um and again like with the older generation uh with
21:35
the older generation firefighters the older generation paramedics and EMTs um you're you're definitely dealing with a
21:41
A system that didn't really have that available to them mhm and so for them it
21:47
was really like they didn't really have another option there was nobody going to come in that's going to talk about the
21:53
feelings like in that kind of case you either sink or swim right uh and and again now we're really looking at the
21:59
number one cause of death for people in Emergency Medical Services First Responders in general veterans included
22:06
which is suicide right uh and it's because the the mass exposure to this much
22:15
trauma this much uh injury this many injuries and Like This Much Death
22:20
because I've only been in for two years and I've seen more dead bodies than I ever wished anybody to see right at this
22:27
point and that was even just from coming up and learning and being there in the rise of covid right was working in both
22:34
the hospitals and in the field you just kind of saw it all yeah uh and so nowadays we're really looking at how to
22:42
combat those numbers how to bring suicide down and how to increase that
22:47
rate and so back then it was kind of like okay either if it's affecting you
22:53
this bad like we we're always here for you you always have your system um inside your organization they're always
22:59
going to be there for you they're always going to have your back uh but on top of that there wasn't really so much of an
23:05
external Source right past your brothers and sisters that you work with I have to say that something that has resonated
23:12
with um with a lot of First Responders is it's it's this the concept of like
23:19
yeah you have to pull up your bootstraps at the moment of the threat and the danger but the truth of the matter is
23:25
after the event you have to take off your boots you have to take off your soggy wet socks because truthfully if
23:32
you don't you end up with you know infection and Gang Green and potential loss of the limb and it's like we have
23:38
to recognize that the that happened to us affects us and First Responders
23:44
it's not to say that you don't want to pull up your bootstraps in those moments but afterwards you have to decompress you have to share with your comrades you
23:50
have to move into a community of discussions so that you know you're not alone because that that connection um is
23:58
so necessary in realizing like the hard things we go through um you know and you
24:05
guys especially First Responders if you don't have someone to talk to about that it it really it's so much more
24:11
negatively impactful and now that the culture is Shifting I think we're seeing
24:16
a lot more like it's okay to talk to each other about that really horrible call or you know I can't get that little
24:22
kid out of my mind that drown because my kid is the same age and it's just really it's just burned into my mind and those
24:28
kind of things are becoming much more common to talk about I would I would say so let me ask you this for you
24:35
personally you know as an 18 to 22 year-old old in the military and uh back
24:41
then you know I wasn't a therapist for very long you know back way back then and so you didn't always get exposed to
24:47
all of this emotional conversation uh as much as you know your younger brother did but for you have you seen a
24:54
transition in your Viewpoint or perspective of of vulnerability as
25:00
weakness or emotions are not necessary or any of that like have you seen a a change in your personal stance on mental
25:08
health and emotional uh capacities and vulnerability has anything happened that has changed that for you ideally for
25:14
myself um I have noticed a change in in vulnerability at least uh with just
25:20
connection um sorry I said that so aggressively um with just connection uh with my wife in general just uh being
25:27
able to kind of let down that shield and that wall um because I definitely kind of grew up a little bit with thinking
25:35
that if you were vulnerable if you were emotional as a man that was a little less uh Savory right for a male figure
25:43
and so and especially having three children right now uh being able to show that vulnerability has been great for
25:50
them uh because it it really for me and know it has nothing to do with being a veteran or being a first responder but
25:57
it really allows for my my children to kind of change that narrative that they need to go to
26:02
Mom right for all their emotional needs and so Emory will sometimes come to me
26:07
uh for emotional needs and the same with Madison and Jensen is I kind of get a
26:13
taste of something that was predominantly a female centered Focus
26:18
which was emotions right and um so with my mindset being as a in the military I
26:26
was very much like I to be like the model sailor or Airman in the case that
26:32
I was um and and really be job oriented Mission
26:38
first and eventually kind of rotating towards being a
26:43
paramedic kind of started in that realm again of being like okay turn it all off
26:48
be focused on the job uh but I've noticed a lot more because as far as
26:55
call volume goes you know the uh the majority of our calls are geriatric
27:00
patients the older population um but something that I've personally seen a rise in is is really uh young so our
27:09
pediatric patients and especially our realm of like 10 to 16 is uh Su uh
27:15
suicidal ideations wow uh especially in younger uh patients and something that I have noticed that I've been starting to
27:23
move towards is being able to be vulnerable with my patients and kind of show them that you know you don't really
27:30
like if you're if you're having those thoughts of any sort you kind of want that support you want that that system
27:35
and unfortunately uh with the the levels that the hospitals are being bombarded with with the the level of calls that
27:42
our firefighters our EMS or our paramedics our EMTs and our police are dealing with is that empathy is fading
27:48
right now they're just overwhelmed there's just too many too many people calling and and secretly what I feel
27:55
like a lot of people just want is that strong support system right just knowing they're not alone and someone's there for them and and I I
28:02
imagine you feel really proud of yourself cuz even though you're not a mental health crisis therapist if if a
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little kid who is feeling low can have this uh you know hero come and just be
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so loving and compassionate it's like you get to help change the face of what a first responder can actually do and
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the difference you can make even though that's not the job I mean we're all humans first and so I think it can make
28:25
the rest of your job a whole lot easier if you start with the hum first and have that um you know emotional bedside
28:31
manner I think people are going to be a lot more receptive to trusting you and cooperating and all of those things so I think that's really insightful of you so
28:39
um can you uh can you think of any calls that you've been on that have sort of haunted you or stuck with you I would
28:46
say that for me I got kind of like a crash course into EMS is what I like to say um so my very first call on my very
28:54
first like legit job when I was working at the fire department uh I went I got uh dispatched to what is known as a
29:00
pediatric code or a pediatric cardiac arrest and so that being my very first
29:06
call in EMS and I was just like nervous but in a weird way excited is like the
29:13
the weirdest way to say it well adrenaline well it's it's the adrenaline on top of the fact that these are like
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the moments that people dread these are the moments that paramedics dread that emt's dread that everybody dreads
29:25
because you want to make sure that you're doing it right and um odd enough so like I kind of got
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on scene and kind of pushed myself to kind of be up front uh to basically get
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started on this code and um so that with
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that call the things that really just stuck out to me were just like the
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family and the cries of the family and like those those kinds of noises like you're not going to get those out of
29:53
your head um but as far as like uh turning and haunting me I wouldn't
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really say that i' have too many calls I dissociate pretty well for my for my calls what are some of the lingering
30:06
effects that you've noticed due to what you've seen um definitely heightened like stress in in certain environments
30:13
uh being around so many car accidents alone uh definitely makes me more
30:18
mindful of traffic uh especially if I'm just walking on the sidewalk you know uh one big thing that I have is like I just
30:25
get this traumatic vision of my wife every single time time that she wants to put her feet up on the dash when we're driving and it just goes through my head
30:33
and I'm like okay the airbag is going to deploy and your hips are going to be at your shoulders and you can see it cuz
30:39
you've seen it yeah and I've seen that type of stuff before it's actually extremely common and um so that it's
30:45
just like the hypervigilance of seat bels it's the hyper vigilance of uh positioning when driving it's constantly
30:53
having my head on a swivel which is a good thing when you're driving but it's
30:58
the inability to turn it off right which is overwhelming and exhausting ultimately which may be part of what
31:03
drives the need for the introversion for sure it's just like there's too much going on right um I as much as I feel
31:10
like any 30-year-old would love to go to like clubs and and bars and things like that I'm just like those are high stress
31:16
environments for me too many variables too many variables um I kind of grew up with the notion I've always wed to have
31:22
your back to a wall so you can watch the front door right um but yeah that's
31:28
pretty much for that yeah so given that you have you you're aware of you understand the stress in your system
31:33
what supports do you recommend for other First Responders that might be watching this or or that you have in your your
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life that uh you know you rely on and that are that are helpful what supports would you say are kind of good smart
31:45
things to have going on for you I think um one starting with uh familial support
31:52
so just getting your your loved ones involved with what's going on uh as much as I know some people don't like to hear
31:59
all the stories and stuff like that sometimes just talking about your calls uh with somebody that's not involved
32:05
with it right is it's sometimes just kind of soothing allows you to kind of process that next best up would be going
32:12
to therapy right so finding a therapist whether or not it's EMDR or any kind of modality that you want or you just need
32:18
somebody to talk to having a safe place where you can talk about the feelings that come up during these calls um
32:24
sometimes they're not going to match what you think you should be feeling which is like a huge fear of my own is
32:31
not being able to react when it actually happens to me like just being so shut off that if I have a very close loved
32:38
one pass away like in the in the case of Grandma recently it's just like am I
32:44
going to be able to show up for my loved ones in that or am I going to be Stone Cold M um but so getting a therapist and
32:51
whether or not you had a hard call or just getting ahead of it before it even happens it's always good right um and
32:57
and then after that um a lot of fire departments are moving towards more support systems you know you have your
33:04
um Employee Assistance programs your AP eaps uh should cover some form of
33:10
therapy if you need it well in Arizona we have a house bill that actually covers so that you can see a specialist and you don't have to just go through a
33:16
talk therapist but you can actually talk with someone who's a trauma informed therapist and and a specialist which is
33:22
so nice I'm so glad for the state that that has been implemented the the hb25
33:27
go to bill which is great yeah and then even beyond that looking towards more I'd say um more Hands-On more medical
33:35
approaches would be like the ketamine assisted therapy right um that I think did the most for me and the shortest
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amount of time um has allowed me to realize and and really get a grasp on
33:48
what has been affecting me rather than just kind of being oblivious towards it right but those three it unshut you off
33:55
like I just as your mom and seeing the difference in from that series of treatment is like I mean I got my guy
34:01
back I got my boy back and so it's been really so special to see cuz you know you were funloving and jovial and silly
34:07
and all those things and you just got so shut down and so serious and and you know really unhappy and low and
34:13
depressed and so the fact that that really helped pull you out of that and and ultimately you know the research shows makes your your your therapy a lot
34:20
more effective when you when you are so shut down and so I think you are really just a tremendous example of first
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responder who's addressed things who've who've moved towards things that are going to serve you and help you not get
34:34
stuck in in uh you know physically traumatic response that's not meant to be longterm but it's meant to be short
34:41
and then be over you know uh and so you you really are just a great example I think so I really appreciate you being
34:48
on the show today and um you're welcome and for being an example for other young
34:53
men like yourself who might have otherwise thought that this is BS and that there can't be help but but also
35:00
for them to know that they're not alone and it's okay to talk about it and I think that uh you setting that example
35:05
is really going to help a lot of people so I appreciate you than you thank you so much for tuning in today if you need
35:11
further assistance we've got some resources in the description below but uh I hope that you gain something from
35:17
it and if you or another loved one you know is a veteran or first responder and you think they could benefit from this
35:23
show please feel free to pass it along uh sometimes we just don't know what we don't know and have some exposure to the
35:28
fact that there could be hope and that people are not alone uh can really make all the difference and that you're thinking of them I think is a really
35:34
lovely gesture so until we meet again thank you so much for tuning in and don't forget to lead with love it'll
35:41
never steer you wrong [Music]
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