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The United Arab Emirates has threatened to withdraw billions of pounds of investment from Manchester over Man City's guilty verdict in the sham contracts scandal.
The move came after Andy Burnham faced a backlash over a statement he made seeming to express sympathy for the club's owners.
The entire ordeal has brought renewed scrutiny onto the Prime Minister's ties to the UAE, and their role in Manchester's growth under his leadership.
Lewis Goodall speaks to Joshi Herrmann, Journalist at the Manchester Mill, and David Bernstein, Former Chair of The Football Association and Manchester City Football Club.
#lewisgoodall #mancity #andyburnham #footballnews #ukpolitics #manchester #uae #LBC #115charges #premierleague #footballnews
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0:00
There has been just a little cloud on the Labour horizon this week after what was a pretty common consensus, a pretty successful party conference and certainly with in terms of the Andy Burnham speech itself
0:11
But it has been this ongoing row over Man City and the ownership, of course, by the UAE, Abu Dhabi, Sheikh Mansour and so on
0:19
Now, they've, of course, just in case you haven't been following any of this, they've lodged an appeal against the findings of an independent commission regarding breaches of Premier League financial rules
0:30
and the reason that Andy Burnham has been involved is that when he was asked about it
0:35
he, and he's had a long-standing relationship with the firm, with the country
0:39
a billion pounds or so pouring into Manchester while he was mayor of Greater Manchester
0:43
even though this is the most egregious, really, financial, from my understanding
0:48
sort of financial story that there has been in the history of the Premier League, 900 million pounds we're talking about here of dodgy, potentially alleged
0:55
bad dodgy contracts and improper accounting and so on. And Andy Burnham said, as the Prime Minister, that he thought it would be a shame and he would be concerned if they were forced to sell the club, which is one of the potential sanctions available
1:08
Well, let's speak now to Yoshi Herman, who's journalist at the Manchester Mill, and David Bernstein, who's the former chair of the FA
1:13
Let's go to Yoshi first. Manchester Mill, a news organisation reporting on Manchester politics
1:21
Yoshi, why do you think Andy Burnham felt compelled to say what he did
1:26
it was a bit of a flash of the kind of manchesterism as it existed when he was mayor
1:33
which was all about going get foreign investment from wherever you can get it
1:38
put your moral qualms to one side defend people who invest in the city even if at times they have
1:45
you know dodgy human rights records or whatever it was a little flash of kind of burn him as he was
1:50
when i've been covering him as mayor after a speech which obviously had a totally different
1:55
tenor to it. It was much more sort of idealistic. I think he defended them because I think he's got
1:59
a long-standing relationship and he knows how important they've been to Manchester. They have
2:04
undoubtedly been incredibly important to Manchester's modern economic development. I suppose the reason it came off as a bit odd or a bit inappropriate to people is because there's
2:13
this huge cheating scandal engulfing the club and we don't really want the Prime Minister getting
2:18
involved. Give us a sense, as someone who's reported on it a lot, give us a sense of just
2:22
how important that investment has been and just how close Burnham has been to them
2:29
The reason that Abu Dhabi has been so important to Manchester is because they were willing to
2:33
invest money at a time when other developers were going bust after the financial crisis
2:38
and when there wasn't very much investment around from the government because of austerity
2:42
So right at the moment where Manchester's modern kind of revival could have been stalled
2:48
by the economic conditions, along comes this huge pot of cash from our friends in the Gulf
2:54
who are willing not only to invest in a football team, they're also willing to invest an additional
2:59
billion, probably actually more than that, in the city itself. So if you walk around Manchester now
3:06
you walk around New Islington Anko around the Etihad Stadium you are looking at housing and restaurants and hotels and concert venues that have been funded by Abu Dhabi money And so it been very important And you adverted to this already but the thing that struck me most about
3:24
these two stories running in parallel, both the speech that Andy Burnham gave, which was basically
3:30
a speech to some extent around a left-wing economic populism, a left-wing economic nationalism
3:36
talking about control. Of course, that does sit uneasily, doesn't it, with the actual Burnhamism, not in theory
3:43
but in practice, which you've talked about, which is that, in a way, it seems to me
3:47
that Burnham's political secret, the thing that he would like to keep on the down low
3:51
is that, you know, when we think about Manchester, yeah, he'd like to talk about bus control and all of that stuff
3:56
But the reason that Manchester is where it is now and the reason it feels like such a big city
3:59
is not about control of buses. It's about the fact it's basically Blairism on steroids
4:04
It's about huge amounts of foreign direct investment, not just from the Gulf, China, but elsewhere as well, which has flooded into the city
4:10
Yeah, that's right. I mean, the speech didn't explain how it is that Manchester grew. The speech
4:16
said, you know, Manchester got great economic growth. He said he has a theory for growth
4:20
It did not explain the key thing here, which is that Manchester had to get money from Hong Kong
4:25
had to get money from China, had to get money from the Gulf. And it did that much better than
4:29
anyone else. And the kind of godfather of that strategy, Sir Howard Bernstein, who was the chief
4:34
executive of the council for about 20 years he was pretty unsentimental about where the money
4:39
came from he told me in an interview um a couple of years after he left the council he told me
4:44
you know we judge people as we find them right we're not going to dig too much into the human
4:49
rights whatever we judge people as we find them and i think that like andy burnham has tried to
4:54
shed that from his political identity as you say it's a much more sort of left-wing populist message
4:58
now. He talks about public control a lot. What could be the opposite of public control more
5:04
than a deal that was reported in the Sunday Times today that the Mill first reported a year ago
5:09
a deal in which Abu Dhabi, the Abu Dhabi United Group, got essentially first dibs
5:15
first of a right of first refusal on large parts of East Manchester. You know, if you look at that
5:20
document, I'm looking at it now, it says the agreement says that the council will from time to time provide a land acquisition strategy to the Abu Dhabi United Group for its approval
5:30
right? That's not public control. That's trading public control and public land in return for
5:35
investment. And I think a lot of people in the city think that was well worth it. But I think Andy Burnham should tell the full story of how that economic growth came about
5:43
David Bernstein, former chair of the FA, also former chair of Man City, lifelong Man City
5:47
Phantom Boot, of course. David, thanks so much for joining us this morning. Were you surprised
5:51
when the Prime Minister weighed in? Well, can I say, Yoshi sounds and is a great expert
5:58
on Manchester politics and so on, and I'm not, and I'm not going to get involved too much
6:02
in the political discussion. This process with regards to Manchester City is really a judicial process
6:13
and my view is that it is really important that all politicians stay well away from it
6:19
It is very important. Now there a lot of credibility for everybody for the club for the Premier League and for the country at stake that this matter is now dealt with and the appeal is dealt with independently and speedily and without interference even though some of the consequential issues are very substantial
6:40
and so my my my hope is that all politicians and all parties stay well away from this and let the
6:47
process carry on and and come to a conclusion as quickly as possible so you think it was a mistake
6:53
for the Prime Minister to comment on it? I'm not going to really comment on that
6:58
He made an off-the-cuff comment. Downing Street, we buffed it and pushed back on it immediately
7:04
So as far as I'm concerned, that's a thing in the past. That's almost a side issue
7:08
to the real issue here of getting this very, very serious matter
7:14
sorted out and brought to a conclusion. Well, let's leave aside the politics
7:19
in which I'm more comfortable and you can help me with the football in which I'm definitely not. Just how serious do you think this is and these alleged improprieties are
7:27
And put it into context in terms of... It is beyond serious
7:31
It is as serious as it could be. I would say this is probably the biggest scandal in British sport
7:39
probably there's ever been. And it's all, of course, I have to say, subject to the appeal and so on
7:45
But if you look at some of the words contained in the independent
7:49
and it's a very independent report, They talk about systematic long-term offenses
7:56
They talk about sham deals. They talk about false documents. They talk about misstated accounts, systematic, really, fraud on an industrial scale over many years
8:09
So you could not have anything much more serious than that. And the money involved, of course, is massive
8:15
Both the money that the report says was misstated, which is around about £900 million over a number of years
8:23
and, of course, the subsequent money that the club, my club, have earned from their success
8:29
So you could not—and ramifications of this in terms of the Companies Act, the Fraud Act, the in-land revenue
8:37
the position of the independent regulator in football, the Football Association, and so on
8:42
where one could talk a long while about the consequences of what's happened
8:48
They are huge. So how grave do you think this could be for Man City as a football club
8:53
Oh, very grave. The penalty, in my view, if they lose the appeal, money will not be enough
9:03
The owners have got pretty bottled pockets. So I feel that City will have to buy club
9:09
I keep saying my club because I say these things with no pleasure at all
9:14
But my club is going to have to lose its Premier League status. Quite how and for how long and so on, I don't know
9:21
You think it has to? Yes. As I say, you were chair there
9:28
Is this the club you recognise? No. When I took over as chair, this club was just going down to the third level of English football
9:38
and we were in a mess. The club was like 50 100 years behind Manchester United And when I took over I said we are going to get this club straight and clean And Manchester City football club with the emphasis on the word club really means something
9:53
Among other things, it means behaving properly, participating fairly, and so on
9:59
And the club I now see over the last 10 or 20 years, which I've admired, they play on the field enormously
10:05
of course, as they've been incredibly successful. But it is tarnished beyond belief by all this
10:12
Is this ultimately a vindication of the view that foreign governments shouldn't be allowed to own football clubs
10:20
because the conflict of interest that is posed by it and the fact that a country like this has basically limitless resources
10:26
so it's hard to sanction them, is it a vindication of view that foreign states should not own English football clubs
10:32
That's a complicated question and I would like to generalise. In any case, Lewis, this horse has bolted long ago
10:43
I mean, so many of our major clubs are owned either by nation-states
10:48
or by sources with huge amounts of money. The whole thing's got someone out of hand, I think
10:56
But it is what it is. What it does mean is that the regulation has to really stand up to huge pressure
11:03
And, I mean, I was one of a—I led, in fact, a group of people who produced a manifesto for change in football five years ago, recommending the independent regulator
11:15
And Andy Burnham was part of my group, I'm pleased to say
11:19
And he was a very positive member of the group. So he clearly supports regulation
11:23
It is vital that the new independent regulator, David Cogan, and his very big team of people really get to grips with this
11:33
They cannot afford to duck this issue. Otherwise, I think they will be, don't start us
11:39
the whole thing will be deemed to be ridiculous. So he's got the biggest case in British history landing on his desk
11:47
within a few months of his appointments. But that's what it is. And we're going to see how the independent regulator reacts to this
11:54
As I say, you're not only a former chair, but a lifelong Man City fan. You sound, and I suspect you're speaking and articulating implicitly
12:01
and explicitly the feelings of many fans. You sound totally gutted about all of this
12:06
A number of things. I'm actually, when I saw the, I expected some pretty bad news
12:12
but when I actually saw the report from the commission, I was really shocked
12:18
I was shocked. I was embarrassed as a fan of the club and pretty angry, I have to say
12:25
The club I've loved and supported for so long, put so much emotion into it and so much effort into it as chairman
12:31
to try and get it straight. To be tarnished in this way, I find it embarrassing to a huge extent
12:38
And when, for example, Man City in their next match next weekend go to Liverpool and all places, to Anfield to play Liverpool
12:45
Crumbs, I wouldn't like to be there to see the reception they're going to get
12:49
You know, they're going to be accused by the rest of football of cheating on a big, big scale
12:54
So, yes, I'm very, very sad and embarrassed. Former chair of the Football Association, David Bernstein there
13:00
and former chair of Man City
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