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This is a catch-up version of James O'Brien's live, daily show on LBC Radio from the 23rd of April 2026. 00:00 - What does it mean if the "special relationship" is over? 48:57 - If you're an addict, do you think social media platforms are addictive? 01:36:38 – Mystery Hour #jamesobrien #politics #LBC LBC is the home of live debate around news and current affairs in the UK. Join in the conversation and listen at https://www.lbc.co.uk/ Sign up to LBC’s weekly newsletter here: https://l-bc.co/signup
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0:00
Ten minutes after ten is the time. I don't know whether or not this is yet more evidence of my obsession with bent or biased media
0:11
But George Robertson last week accused British leaders of a corrosive complacency towards defence
0:19
He was speaking about subsequent and successive prime ministers, but inevitably the country that we currently inhabit
0:26
it was essentially told by its media that he was talking exclusively and entirely about Keir Starmer
0:31
which is part of the reason why it became front-page news almost everywhere
0:36
particularly when you add in that very tabloid-friendly insistence that you should take money away from the welfare state and spend that money instead on weaponry
0:47
George Robertson, former head of NATO and a former Labour defence minister
0:52
currently earning some of his crust from a consultancy to armament firms
1:00
an outfit that helps businesses get government contracts in that field, which is not to say there's a conflict of interest
1:08
but it is a bit like the figures on small boat crossings, something that should be contained in any coverage of the bigger picture
1:15
I was going to do the small boat crossings things as a missed information, but for reasons that I can't begin to fathom
1:21
I decided to do it at the top of my introduction just before the 10 o'clock news instead
1:25
Down 35% year on year, but absolutely extraordinarily absent from almost all of the coverage designed to make you angry and fearful with the wrong people
1:36
United States of America. The United States of America. America. I used to say America until I think a Venezuelan lady at one of my book signings asked me to stop saying that because it is a little bit, well, it's inaccurate, isn't it
1:55
It's a continent, not just a country. The United States of America. What do those words do to you when you hear them
2:03
What did they used to do? I remember the first time a friend of mine went to the States
2:08
And it wasn't the best present I've ever received, but it was quite thoughtful. he brought me some condiments back
2:13
from all of the fast food joints that he visited because this was before I'd ever seen a McDonald's in the flesh
2:20
I forget what year McDonald's in Kiddermister opened but my friend Timothy went to the United States of America
2:25
before McDonald's opened in Kiddermister. It was like some sort of mythical golden arches, literally
2:32
And he brought me back a bag. He brought me catsups. It was called catsup
2:36
It seemed so glamorous. Beef burgers, hamburgers, It seems so glamorous, the United States of America
2:43
I'm not joking now. Cultural reference points, first things you thought of, first things that said the United States of America to you
2:51
Again, I'd have to check the dates, but the Jigs of Hazzard would be quite high up on my list
2:56
It's the two modern-day Robin Hood, Bo and Luke Duke, and, of course, the inimitable Daisy
3:01
It was always a warm feeling, right? And then you learned a little more as you grew older
3:09
about the role, albeit somewhat belatedly, that the United States played in both world wars
3:14
most crucially, of course, post-Pol Harbour in the second, and the argument, despite the deification almost of Winston Churchill
3:21
that without the intervention of the United States of America, it's unlikely that the Nazis would have been defeated
3:28
And you come away with an even warmer feeling. We know a little bit about Nixon or Vietnam
3:36
I mean, it's not a perfect country. The friendship, the relationship, the warmth between Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher, for good or for ill, was very real, although it didn't extend to helping us out in the Falkland Islands, of course
3:50
And then Bill Clinton, Barack Obama, George Bush, George W. Bush, you sort of run through the US presidents and everything was, if not hunky-dory, then relatively amicable
4:04
Barack Obama, Joe Biden and then you come to today and the extraordinary
4:13
I mention that because I just want you to get a pin
4:17
if you're dropping a pin on a map I want you to drop a pin on your personal calendar
4:22
any pin at any point in your life how did you feel as a Brit
4:27
or as a resident of these islands how did you feel about the United States of America
4:37
And I am going to say to you it was positive. It was a positive feeling
4:41
Even I think the Iraq war, opposition to it was enough to excuse the regimes on both sides of the land
4:50
Not excuse, that's the wrong word. But detach. You could despise that intervention
4:57
although it's 20-20 hindsight that really revealed how ridiculous it was, without feeling anything negative towards the entire country or towards
5:06
the future relationship, to the future relationship between our country and theirs
5:12
I suspect, and I don't know this for sure, I suspect that the special relationship always
5:19
looks a little bit more special from this side of the Atlantic than it does from the
5:22
other side of the Atlantic. It's a unique relationship. they're celebrating their 250th anniversary of independence from us this year not from anybody
5:32
else i mean if history had played out slightly differently it would have been the dutch that had
5:38
the uh upper hand in colonial america but um but but we managed to snatch that prize and then lost it
5:45
subsequently um so there is a unique historical relationship and there is the commonality of
5:54
language, of course. I think it was Oscar Wilde who said that it's two
5:57
peoples divided by a common language because American English and English English do have slightly different
6:04
interpretations in many ways. But you think quite warmly, right, about the United States of America
6:13
until now. Until now, because Donald Trump's depravity is just his base awfulness
6:20
is such that he has managed to pollute that future where you just presume
6:29
like night follows day, that the United States of America is our friend and our ally
6:37
and, crucially, it will usually be at our side when push comes to shove
6:46
Usually. Not always. Not at Suez. Not in the Falklands. And it's not true anymore
6:53
Not least because it would be a reciprocal relationship, which would mean us getting involved in Donald Trump's next mad expedition
7:01
just as Keir Starmer was categorically and completely right not to get involved in this one
7:06
And that's why I think that George Robertson's comments are much more interesting than his comments last week
7:14
which are essentially a bloke who works in the military-industrial complex saying, can we please have more money for the military-industrial complex
7:21
Now look stop clocks and all of that of course It looks like a period in British history where we really should be looking to our gums But you will never find a senior soldier or anybody attached to the military industrial complex
7:35
or anybody attached to the Ministry of Defence. You will never find a senior character from those worlds who doesn't say we need more money for defence
7:44
So it doesn't mean it's not true. It just means it's a little bit dog bites man, right
7:50
and I think if he hadn't added let's take it from the welfare
7:54
budget then it probably wouldn't have got the it wouldn't have seen the bearing of the
8:00
tabloid fangs last week it was the fact A it offered an opportunity
8:04
to attack Keir Starmer by ignoring the fact that George Robertson was talking about successive
8:08
British governments and B it offered an opportunity to do what is now
8:14
fast replacing racism as the favourite hobby of the right attacking people in receipt of
8:20
support, state support for a variety. Take it off the welfare. Take it off all those people pretending to be
8:26
sick. Take it off the shirkers. Don't ask any questions. Don't do too much research
8:30
I definitely know they're all swinging the lead because my wife's, sisters
8:35
husbands, brothers, window cleaners, cats, original owner, lives in Lanzarote on Universal
8:41
Credit. So that gets it propelled onto the front pages as well
8:46
But this has got to be more interesting, right? A former defence minister, a former NATO secretary general
8:55
saying that Britain's military dependence on the US is no longer tenable
9:03
No longer tenable. He points not just to Iran and the hideous, unprovoked attack there
9:10
but also to tariffs, the levying of tariffs on traditional allies, and most jarringly of all, for him
9:20
the threat to wrest Greenland from Denmark. God, the madness moves so quickly, doesn't it
9:27
Had you forgotten about that? You've forgotten the President of the United States of America
9:31
publicly stating his intention to steal a sovereign NATO territory? No? So, the United States is not our friend
9:43
Donald Trump has turned the entire country almost into an enemy of what we stand for
9:52
he has torn up the historic concord, the historic warmth I mean, not quite 250 years because I imagine relations
10:02
were a little bit frosty in the immediate after path of the war of independence but certainly in the context of our lifetimes
10:08
or in the context of the 20th and 21st centuries it was one of life's certainties, you know, wasn't it
10:17
In the context even of relatively modern politics, you could have a few things that you could say with complete certainty
10:26
Your football team will let you down, Nigel Farage will lie, and the United States of America is our friend
10:34
And it's not anymore. we've talked about American politics a hell of a lot on this program
10:41
and we will I think continue to do so A because it's fascinating B because it's important
10:46
and C because it is my show and I find it absolutely riveting
10:52
for a whole heap of reasons some of them historic but sometimes the really big stuff
10:59
can get swallowed up by the little stuff that's what the cliche means isn't it
11:04
when you can't see the wood for the trees Quite often with clichés, we use them without ever stopping to think what they really mean
11:09
I love that. I mean, you know, a rolling stone gathers no moss. What does that mean
11:14
It means you're zipping around so fast that you're not actually picking anything up
11:18
You're not actually making any meaningful observations, or you're not learning anything because you're in such a bloody hurry
11:24
You can't see the wood for the trees. What does that mean, you can't see the wood for the trees
11:28
It means you're focusing on the trees. So you're talking about raccoons' penises and Pulp Fiction quotes
11:34
instead of talking about the fact that the relationship with the United States of America is over
11:44
And I can't quite see it being restored to where it was five years ago
11:52
regardless of what happens next. Because if you're building military policy, an entirely new dimension has been introduced to your thinking
12:05
If you were building military policy in the 1980s or in the 1990s or in the noughties
12:10
in the 1950s or the 1960s or the 1970s of all the pieces on the table
12:17
that you have to assemble into a domestic defence policy those two pieces that have gone
12:24
in the last ten years that 20 years ago no one would have thought possible
12:31
They wouldn't even have known they were pieces. You've got the allyship of the United States
12:36
and you've got the membership of the European Union. And in the last 10 years, two things that would
12:43
if you like sporting ogies, they'd have been first on the team sheet. The things that were absolute stone-cold certainties
12:49
They were so baked in to any interpretation of UK defence policy
12:57
that you probably wouldn't even have put them on the list of things that need to be taken into consideration
13:01
because they were so absolutely part of the furniture, right? The United States is our ally
13:08
We can rely upon the United States militarily. We are, if you prefer, dependent upon
13:12
the United States of America militarily. And we are in the European Union and NATO
13:18
And NATO is a big deal. All of these things have gone. We're not in the European Union anymore
13:23
NATO is increasingly under threat from Donald Trump's depravity, and the United States of America is no longer our friend
13:33
It is, in many ways, our enemy. And that goes beyond personality and beyond current incumbents
13:42
and beyond even modern politics. It is an extraordinary rewriting of what has been
13:47
for the best part of 100 years, the natural order in transatlantic relationships
13:53
So when a former head of NATO says that Britain's high military dependence on the US is no longer tenable and that we have to become increasingly independent of Washington, a former NATO chief, a former British defence minister
14:15
saying we have to become more independent of the United States and we have to become less dependent on them
14:26
That's the same thing, isn't it? I just said it twice in slightly different ways. And here's the really mad bit, right
14:33
Hold that thought in your mind. That warm feeling you get when you think of the A-Team or McDonald's
14:40
or whatever it was when you were a kid that made America seem glamorous and new and exciting, and our friend
14:49
Hold that thought in your head, and now hold this question. What does this mean What does this mean What on earth does it mean I don know how much time you spend in Suffolk or Norfolk but you got air bases down there that are essentially American soil
15:07
You know? What's a thing you can only buy in the States, like a Tim Tam for Australia
15:12
What's a thing you can only buy in the States that you can't buy in Britain? There are a few things on that list
15:17
Have we got any Wendy's anymore? You've probably got a Wendy's. Kool-Aid, does anyone get Kool-Aid in this country
15:22
Dr. Peppers I think you can buy now, although why anybody would want to is beyond me
15:26
But you've probably got branches of Wendy's at Mildenhall, or certainly they're like outposts
15:32
in the same way that British military bases will be selling Marmite and Heinz baked beans
15:37
I mean, they are so baked, are nuclear deterrent. And this is the embarrassing bit, right
15:43
Well, it's not embarrassing. We haven't got a clue what this means, have we
15:50
We don't know what this means. Well, I'm hoping you do, otherwise it's going to be the longest monologue in history
15:57
But I don't know what this is. I start thinking about Mildenhall or Lakenheath
16:01
I start thinking about Trident. I start thinking about this, that or the other
16:05
And I think, oh, flipping out, that's a bit scary. You can buy root beer in Morrison's, Ian
16:11
That's not unique to the United States of America, although I grant you probably not McDonald's root beer
16:16
Used to be a thing here. When Kid and Mr. McDonald's opened, And just to give you the entirely false impression that I plan these monologues
16:23
I'll just loop it straight back to the beginning and say, they used to sell root beer in McDonald's in this country
16:27
Delicious. What does this mean? What does it mean? I mean, how
16:38
You know my favourite ogy of all time? When I talk about complicated things
16:43
it's like getting the eggs out of a baked cake, right? how on earth does the United Kingdom extricate itself
16:49
from the, quote, special relationship, end quotes, with the United States of America
16:53
Three questions. What does this mean? 0-3-4-5-6-0-6-0-9-7-3. Second question, how does this happen
17:01
Any ideas at all? I'll take anything. 0-3-4-5-6-0-6-0-9-7-3. And the third question
17:09
as is often the case when I get to the end of these introductions, do you agree with my ysis
17:13
and indeed George Robertson's, that this isn't just a blip, this isn't just a hiccup, a bump in the road
17:20
this isn't just a temporary glitch in the relationship between the United Kingdom and the United States
17:26
but it's a lesson for the ages. We must now, as a nation
17:33
detach ourselves from dependence on the United States of America. They are no longer a reliable ally
17:39
I think that's a very strong argument for them no longer being an ally at all
17:43
which leads to question four. What do we do next? What do we do next
17:51
So, is it over? How do we do the divorce? What happens next
18:01
And if you really want to go mega or meta, what does it mean
18:06
What does it mean that the special relationship is over? If you're ex-military or current military
18:12
or if you've got insights into this, then I'd be particularly interested in the personal
18:16
as well as the political. But for the rest of us, it's an exercise in thinking hard, isn't it
18:22
What does it mean is the umbrella under which the other three questions sit and the other three questions are
18:28
how does this happen? What does the divorce look like? What do we do next
18:33
What does the future look like? And do you agree with the central ysis
18:38
the central theme that it is over? Over. 0345 6060 973. It's a big one, this
18:50
And not immediately obvious, but I back myself on the contention that this is a much more significant intervention
18:56
If you are going to treat George Robertson as somebody whose comments about military matters
19:02
must be heeded, and last week, everybody was, then this is a much more significant intervention
19:09
than the usual tabloid claptrap about taking money off people on welfare
19:13
and giving it to the Ministry of Defence instead. This is about the very..
19:17
On St. George's Day, in fact, happy St. George's Day, if you celebrate
19:23
on St. George's Day, it seems incredibly significant that a former defence minister is talking about
19:29
the end of the special relay. Right, I've done enough now. It's 23 minutes after 10. You can have a crack after this
19:34
James O'Brien on LBC. I do love you. I probably don't tell you this often enough
19:39
I do, I love you. Yesterday, we're assembling an ysis, quite possibly, of the beginning of the end of Keir Starmer's premiership
19:48
And for reasons that you'll have to use catch-up to establish, it somehow led to the messiness of my man cave and the need for grown-ups in this world
19:56
That touched more nerves with you than any of the political ysis or controversial, pungent comments that I shared
20:03
And today, we're actually discussing the end of the special relationship between the United Kingdom and the United States of America
20:10
And my inbox is full of things like this. Did you just besmirch the reputation of Dr. Pepper
20:15
If so, I'm turning off, says Matt in Northampton. And then unsigned messages saying things like
20:20
Cheese Whiz. Cheese Whizzes. You can't get them in England. And James, they're opening a Wendy's just outside Norwich
20:26
In fact, my inbox is absolutely rammed with people who have responded to the little cultural..
20:33
It's Jim in Leeds with the Cheese Whiz. I do apologise. Not a single natural ingredient in it
20:38
but it is delicious. And on it goes. In fact, the Dr Pepper comment might well prove
20:43
to be my most controversial this week. Peter's in Hertford. Peter, you can kick things off
20:50
What would you like to say? Thanks, James. Good luck to keep the minister on Saturday, by the way
20:54
Thank you very well. We don't really need it, do we, on Saturday? You've got your playoff plate, haven't you
20:59
I was a Christian town fan, by the way, so we've crossed paths many times. Oh, lovely stuff
21:04
James, my partner's American. We've been together for five years now. And every time we go over, I was always this kind of suspicious Brit, you know, kind of
21:13
I had the Americana like you, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Yes. It was me growing up. A bit younger than me
21:17
Yeah, a little bit Teeny Tani. But it's the unapologetic behavior now of Americans
21:23
They don't seem to care anymore now. Before, when I used to be there, it used to be, oh my God, it's Peter, it's the Brit, you know, let's go and show him off
21:30
Now, I'm almost a nuisance. Really? Genuinely, yes. you know, when you meet people in the diner or something like that
21:37
you know, you're kind of treated almost, you talk about illegal aliens sometimes. I don't get that warm, fuzzy feeling that I used to
21:42
when I first started going over to America. And I love America, and I love my baseball
21:47
I love my beers, you know, pull up a stall at the bar, that kind of thing. That's a very personal response
21:53
Do you think it's linked to the politics? I mean, the insularity, Trump
21:59
I mean, are your wife's family's MAGA-leaning? Unfortunately, I believe they are
22:04
They are Jewish. So it doesn't mean they're MAGA, but... Well, it's the reason they voted in Trump for his stance on Israel
22:10
Okay, for his support for Israel, okay. Just to the record, plenty of Jewish people not happy with the stance on Israel
22:17
particularly in the United States of America, but in the case of your wife's family, that's the case
22:23
And that's fine. But we sit around the Seder table for instance and the first time I went round they were all bullish and happy and excitable The year after when the whole dystopian future started and ruffling they would not say boo to
22:37
goose, no politics talk, nothing like that. And it was just a bizarre switching off of the dial
22:44
James. It really was. And that cuts both ways now. So the idea that we would be able to rely
22:50
upon the United States in the future with a different president, a different administration
22:54
is dead. It doesn't get fixed overnight, does it? It's not like, you know
23:00
what's just happening in Hungary, so they've been withholding all the funds for Ukraine
23:05
a new president comes in, boom, we can now switch it on straight away
23:09
This relationship does not get fixed in a generation, I don't think, now. No, well, I don't either
23:14
And, of course, it poses the other questions we're asking this hour, which is
23:18
what does that mean? What does the divorce look like? What does the divorce look like
23:23
I need a sort of military strategist to answer that question. What on earth
23:28
Another day, give it six months, we'll probably be talking about the end of NATO, as we know it
23:31
if Trump's still in power. But what on earth would it mean to enact George Robertson's advice
23:37
and detach ourselves from high military dependence on the United States of America
23:42
Thank you, Peter. Good luck to Kettering. 29 minutes after 10 is the time
23:46
Long introduction, but I want to hear more. There's nothing to stop us carrying this over into the second hour, by the way
23:52
We can do what we want on this show, within reason. So don't sort of think that we're going to contain
23:58
all of the conversation in the first calls. There's so much to cover here
24:04
that I want you to really put your thinking cap on and have a crack at all of it, or any of it
24:10
The bake cake question, what does the divorce actually look like? The central thesis, that this is permanent
24:16
or at least generational, as Peter puts it, and not just a blip, not just something that is only true for the duration of the Trump administration
24:24
And what on earth do we do next? What do we do next
24:28
There's one quite obvious answer to that question, but I might wait for you to provide it rather than sticking my oar in again
24:35
Here's Dominic Ellis with your headlines. James O'Brien on LBC. 33 is the time
24:41
Britain's high military dependence on the US is no longer tenable and the UK must become increasingly independent
24:47
of the special relationship with Washington. Not my words. George Robertson, former head of NATO and Labour defence minister
24:54
who last week, when he was calling for more military spending and less spending on welfare
24:59
had his words plastered over every front page in the country. Not so today, despite the fact that these words strike me
25:05
as being considerably more significant and important. Peter is in Hackney. Peter, what made you pick up the phone
25:11
Well, it's been a real psychological sadness for me to move to the state of thinking of America now as a potential enemy
25:17
and I can go into that if you want. But in terms of what we can do now, then it seems that at least off the top of my head, three things
25:24
Some of which have been covered before. First is to work as hard and as fast as we can with Europe
25:29
Not just the EU, but Europe. Because geographically we are bound to them, whether or not we like it or not
25:34
Secondly is to have similar arrangements where we can with mid-range countries like Canada or Australia or whatever
25:41
And the third thing, and I know your listenership, if I get this wrong, people will chip in
25:45
But look at our defence spending. I have it in my mind, there was a huge debate about why we need an aircraft carrier sucking in vast amounts of money, where we've seen that the risks now are much more sort of land-based, things like that
25:58
So maybe a review, and not try to project a global influence, where we can't afford it, and we ought to spend the money more wisely
26:04
Oh, that's interesting. So to recognise our limitations in a way. I mean, even the sort of lessons of Suez have not been fully heeded by some people who think that we still rule the waves
26:16
or that we still should, Britannia still should rule the waves. What would more cooperation look like
26:22
I mean, it would mean a sort of European defence force or a European army in which we were all equal partners
26:29
I think we'd have to do what... I have a friend who lives in Latvia
26:36
Latvia? Yeah. He talks about how he grew up at the time of the Soviet Union
26:41
and how different economic activities were farmed out of the different countries
26:45
So it would not make sense for every separate Europe-based country, including ourselves, to try and do everything
26:51
We would need to organise and say, OK, we would focus on producing more missiles and maybe Norway would do this
26:58
So we need to have a sort of rational supply chain in our alliance
27:01
to make sure we didn't try and do everything ourselves and work to the best benefit
27:05
So, I mean, you know, we're talking about getting the eggs out of a baked cake
27:09
but you remind us that we almost have to bake the new cake from scratch, don't we
27:13
And that would involve all manner of shifts to the natural, what we thought was the status quo, what we thought was the natural order
27:20
And I think just something is part of this. We have to somehow get it into a wider consciousness
27:26
that America cannot be relied on. Yes. And it's a real trauma, really, for most people
27:32
I think trauma is a wonderful word to use. I mean, it cannot be relied on. And that's what I tried to convey in my introduction
27:38
That is such an upsetting of the apple carts of our lives
27:43
And a lot of people, of course, not ready for it. And the only bit, I guess, we can't say with strength is
27:50
or certainly with certainty is that it is permanent or it is deep rooted
27:56
this shift in relations and not confined to the duration of the current regime in the White House
28:03
I mean I think the fact that it can happen changes everything forever
28:07
even if it unhappens it can happen again thank you Peter, it's a great call
28:12
it is 10.36, if you want to join this conversation the number you need is 0.3456060973
28:18
how does the divorce work? I don't even know if we're ready to begin answering that question
28:23
So how does the divorce work and what does the rebuilding look like? Zuhair is in Ealing
28:27
Zuhair, what would you like to say? Yes, hi, hi, James. So there are some narratives, false narratives
28:34
that are really global that change a lot of things. And this is one of these global narratives
28:42
this so-called special relationship, which is now no longer true. Well, hang on
28:48
I mean, let's instead call it high military dependence on the US from the part of the UK, which is true
28:56
Yeah. So it's more about that today. I've used the phrase special relationship, but that engulfs culture and history and sport
29:05
But this is the high military dependence, which is currently in place and needs to be dismantled
29:12
Correct. And I don't think that our politicians have yet got their head around this
29:18
No, I don't. And this new change. And this is why I'm afraid that the change that is needed may not happen
29:24
until they realize the global shift that's happened. That's fine. Yes. But also, if I can mention the economic aspect as well
29:36
that was also in jeopardy. Well, of course it is. Well, tariffs did that
29:41
The tariffs exploded economic cooperation. Yeah, exactly. And then from that big, big narrative
29:49
you get all the other important narratives that have changed as well
29:54
These false narratives. For example, the war with Iran. says that, you know, Iran's always the aggressor
30:03
and they did all this and they were the cause of everything. They forget that in 1953 they changed
30:10
the democratic government, a democratically elected president who was Mossaddaq, and brought in a CIA..
30:21
So I'm just going to steer you back to the conversation that we're having today. We've had this phone in and we will have it again
30:27
and it is fascinating and it is a key point, but it's one that we've made when having conversations specifically about Iran
30:33
What does, I mean, and you may not have an answer to this question because I don't think I do, what does the beginning of the dismantlement look like here
30:39
What do we do first? Do we close the bases? Do we renegotiate Trident
30:44
What do we do? It really means a whole review of everything
30:48
to do with our military relationship with America. Respectfully, that's the umbrella
30:55
What's under it? So, yeah, absolutely. Do we put French nuclear missiles in UK subs, as Jim suggests
31:01
We cannot rely on the American nuclear deterrent. That's for sure. So we need to depend on our own and Europe
31:11
The more you think about this, the more you talk about this, the bigger the issue becomes
31:15
It's extraordinary, really. And it's not getting the coverage that comments about
31:20
oh, spend all the welfare money on bombs got last week, when it was the same man making the comments
31:25
He's right here, by the way, in my view. so far in your view as well
31:29
But the questions are by, don't they? They're getting bigger with every call
31:33
What does the dismantling look like? How do you get the eggs out of the cake? What is the divorce
31:38
What will be the terms of the divorce? It's, I mean, extraordinary
31:44
And what do we do next? Pete's in Whitton. Pete, what would you like to say
31:49
James, we need to spend baby... Spend... Spend baby spend, did you say
31:54
That is the one, yeah. I worked with the Americans in Afghan in 2008-2009
32:02
We are so reliant on them. Your last listener talking about the nuclear deterrent
32:10
I was using American radios, American satellites to speak to American assets
32:17
And without that, I wouldn't have been able to do our job. Our supply lines, we were resupplied by the Americans
32:23
And, you know, people need to realise our current forces will fill Wembley Stadium with seats to spare
32:33
Yes. We've got a ship that can barely make it to Cyprus and is now broken down
32:39
We've got two aircraft carriers that aren't deployable at the moment. But this is all while we're in the special relations
32:46
This is all while we are military dependent on the United States of America
32:49
We've become complacent. Did you, when you were in Afghanistan, did you recognise the dangers that you're describing now
32:57
Or was the special relationship so baked in that it didn't really cross your mind that this could be problematic, this level of dependence
33:06
At that point it was baked in. Yeah, that's why I'm glad you said that. We've come to expect it
33:10
That's what I'm trying to convey is that it's a complete upsetting of the order, isn't it
33:15
The natural order of things. And those are the hardest things to accept sometimes
33:19
The really big things, the woods, if you like, rather than the trees, are harder to see sometimes
33:24
100%. And now we've almost become, it's too late. The realisation has come too late
33:31
Because the spending hasn't been there. You know, we can barely recruit people
33:36
The tension is really bad. You know, but we've always had the, or the Americans will be there
33:41
And I think the Falklands, back in the 80s, sort of our last proper, on our own military engagement and operation
33:49
if the Argentinians are raided tomorrow those pictures from the 80s of the task force
33:56
being deployed, retaking the islands, that is over. We won't be able to do that. Well I hope you're wrong
34:02
and I hope we don't find out and I think it's probably fair to say that Argentina's
34:06
armed forces aren't what they were in the 1980s either but I take your central point
34:09
and that, well here's the next bit of the question then Pete, which is
34:14
about what we do next. You know if we're going to run with the divorce ogy
34:18
who do we start dating? We need to get back with Europe quickly
34:24
You know, you think back to Brexit, and I don't want to bring it up, you know
34:28
the European army... We hate people who bring up Brexit on this programme, Pete. It's terrible, it's awful
34:33
But, you know, oh, we don't want to be part of the European army, you know, the front page of the Daily Mail
34:38
Yeah. Well, if we're not part of the European army and the relationship with America is gone
34:44
then we're on our own. Do we know why? What was that design? Was it just an anti-foreigner thing
34:49
It was like, or, or, or, I mean, if, how could it have been
34:52
I thought at the time, and it was inevitably, it was Farage that was banging that pathetic little drum harder than anybody else
34:58
It's the armies that we're not in that we should worry about. Not the armies that we are in
35:04
It was a mistaken belief. What was it? Go on. It's a mistaken belief that we were stronger and better than we actually are
35:12
And that actually ties in with a story today about Farage saying
35:16
he's going to rewrite curriculums in British schools. I don't think he even went to university
35:21
so quite what his qualifications would be to tell the history teachers of this country
35:25
what they should and should not be teaching, I do not know. But I'll tell you what it will involve. Less foreign history
35:30
Less foreign history and less nuance. Maybe a halo, for example, for Winston Churchill
35:36
Because that's what British exceptionalism looks like. And I think Pete's probably right
35:40
That's a more generous reading than the racist one, in that people like Farage were opposed to a European army
35:45
because they thought that we were still in Britannia Rules the Waves territory
35:50
as opposed to the country that Farage and Johnson and the rest of them have turned us into
35:54
Britannia Waves the Rules is coming up to quarter to 11. Should we hit this break on time for once
36:00
Just to see what it... Should we even go a little bit early? Peter in Stockholm is up first after this, but 30 seconds early, lads
36:06
James O'Brien on LBC. It is 10.47 and you are listening to James O'Brien on LBC
36:13
We've never actually had that phone in that Pete just touched on there about why it was so effective
36:20
The sort of Farage's claptrap about European armies being something we should fear
36:24
Did it have a Second World War dimension? You know, when I first started doing this job, people would call the EU the Fourth Reich or the EUSSR
36:34
And I discovered quite quickly, if you asked them what that meant, they would fall apart like a cheap suit
36:38
A bit like Nigel Farage did on occasion. He dared to speak to me in person
36:42
but the European army still baffles me. It's an extraordinary thing that has happened
36:49
when you look at the state of the special relationship now and the idiocy of continuing faith in dependence
36:55
upon the United States of America that we've cut off our umbilical to continental Europe as well
37:01
because any military cooperation is going to be easier for countries that are already in an economic partnership
37:09
an economic marriage. It just obviously because of things like trade and British companies being able to bid for contracts and
37:17
the simple parameters of cooperation, but they've blown it. They blown that up as well And speaking of that shower I just I think it time to start helping other journalists work out how you handle these people If you don want to see the United Kingdom go down a route similar to the United States of America
37:39
Channel 4 News doing a bang-up job of reminding us how convincingly and how casually Farage abandons the truth at every opportunity
37:50
So, I think I want you first to listen to him responding to Channel 4 News' correspondent, Amelia Jen
37:59
when she questioned him about Richard Tice's tax affairs, which aren't getting the level of coverage you might have expected them to get after more revelations in the Sunday Times
38:08
But the accuser is a Labour Party activist. I think that's quite an important point
38:13
If he's a Labour Party activist, why has he investigated Keir Starmer and Angela Rayner? Well, Angela Rayner, he did do, but he is a Labour Party activist
38:21
And you'll find out there have been a lot more attacks on us than there have on the other. And as Richard says, all of this was done by professional accountants
38:29
And he has spoken to HMRC about it. If there's a problem, he will pay
38:34
But it's likely that there's not a problem because someone like Richard
38:38
who, by the way, has run big PLCs in this country during his business career
38:43
I mean, you know, the guy is not there to make mistakes and employs the top professionals
38:49
You know, all I would say to you is that Richard Tice has had a long, distinguished career in business
38:55
And if there is an error, if his accountants have made an error, he'll put it right
38:59
But I very, very much doubt that that will be the case
39:03
He's a Nepo baby, isn't he, Tice? I think he's a Nepo baby. Anyway, here he is, Tice himself
39:08
If anybody from any other party had been in that situation and tried to dodge paying the correct amount of tax
39:17
no one would have screamed and hollered louder than the deputy prime minister
39:21
And morally, her position was always completely indefensible. What she's done is blame everybody else but herself
39:28
She's blamed the legal advice. She's drawn in the complications of a court order
39:33
it was obvious you cannot claim that you've got two main residences
39:38
in different parts of the country hundreds of miles apart. It's right that she pays the correct amount of tax
39:46
I would expect that a penalty may well be imposed, but if she had any integrity, any moral decency
39:54
given her position as Deputy Prime Minister, she would offer her resignation to the Prime Minister
40:00
They are so full of it, aren't they? But what I liked about the Channel 4, although, I mean, she could have come back again, is he just does that nonsense
40:07
Oh, it's a Labour Party activist. It's literally the same tax expert that pursued Angela Rayner for her stamp duty mistakes and errors
40:17
It's literally the same person. But the combination of lies and victimhood, he usually gets away with it
40:23
He gets away with it, sadly, in this studio on a fairly regular basis. But you just hit him with knowledge
40:28
Of course, the prerequisite of hitting him with knowledge is having knowledge and caring about facts and knowledge
40:33
But to claim that it's biased because the bloke that exposed Angela Rayner
40:38
is somehow working in cahoots with the Labour Party is a lie so egregious that, well, only he could make it
40:49
But anyway, Nepo Baby Tice is to be trusted on this because he's such a successful business person
40:54
10.52 is the time. Just a little digression. Ah, Ash is here. Hurrah and huzzah
40:59
What do you want to say about this one? Ash, for people who don't know, is now, thanks largely to his promotion on this programme
41:04
a widely respected international expert on shipping matters. Of course, he was all of those things before he ever phoned me
41:09
but I like to take the credit for everything. Ash, what's on your mind? OK, so, good morning, James
41:15
Hello, mate. So, there are two systems running parallel to each other
41:20
that we need to consider when you're thinking about naval logistics. and this is a wonderful historic moment to go back to
41:29
The first system is naval logistics and the second system is now globalization
41:35
Globalization at its heart is the use of merchant navy routes that we used to secure by the Royal Navy
41:43
but we now secure by finance. Yep. Yes. So you're securing it by
41:49
it becomes a system that's too big to fail. Everybody's making too much money, no one's going to attack these supply lines
41:56
That's really helpful. That actually clarifies something that I've been thinking about quite a lot since the Iran war started
42:03
which is why don't we have more wars that are essentially revenue-raising exercises
42:08
I touched on it yesterday from the olden days, when a war was essentially an attempt to annex more territory
42:14
in which people would pay tax to the monarch or pay tax to the warlord or pay tax to the king
42:19
and the reason why it doesn't happen anymore is that people are generally happy. The people, the real, the latter-day monarchs and warlords
42:25
who are, of course, venture capitalists and business people, they're quite happy with the way things are arranged
42:30
and the way things are unfolding. Precisely. Everyone's thinking so much money
42:35
So, rather than having East India Trading Company, which would run three gun-deck boats of the line
42:42
as merchant vessels, taking goods back and forth to protect themselves, you now use finance to protect it. Gosh
42:49
Hello. It's not the best phone line, Ash, so let me nudge you towards
42:53
let me nudge you, if I may, towards this special relationship and what the end of it would look like
43:00
against the backdrop of what you've just described. Okay, so now with the naval supply lines and the way the Navy works
43:06
and everything is integrated with NATO, we've come to rely on NATO for all these things
43:13
You've hit yourself to bake that custard trying to get the eggs out of it
43:16
You can't, but what you can do is you can wait for somebody sane to be in the White House
43:22
and then try to decouple. Doing it with somebody who is this volatile, not possible
43:30
No, I hadn't thought of that. So, oddly, it's the third way that you describe
43:35
and I'm going to knock it on the head there because the phone line just about sustained
43:39
our ability to understand what you were saying, but only just. So it's not a question of, we wait for somebody better to get into the White House
43:46
and hope that things go back to normal, it's the fact that we wait until somebody sane is in the White House
43:54
and then recognize the new reality that we can't carry on as we are
44:02
That's fantastic and almost certainly true. Thank you, Ash. Peter's in Stockholm
44:06
Peter, what would you like to say? Hi, James. Great to speak to you again
44:11
So I come from it as a person born and raised in Sweden
44:14
I lived 10 years in fantastic London, so I'm also a naturalized British citizen
44:21
And what I like to say is that now just the special relationship, as you like to call it, any relationship..
44:31
Not just me, mate. I mean, it's a fairly well-established phrase. Sure, sure, sure. But I think what I'm going to convey in a short moment is some optimism, I think
44:40
I think trust, any relationship has to be built on trust. And now that you have almost lost any semblance of trust, you have to look at risk management
44:49
And risk management, in my opinion, and I think all the callers have said the same thing
44:54
So I mean good company I believe We need to decouple When I say we I also speak as a European not only as a British citizen And I glad that Ash came before me a fantastic contribution as always
45:05
He said, let's wait for a more stable leader in the White House
45:10
I hadn't thought of that. So what do we do in the meantime? Just muddle through? Just stay out of his ludicrous, unprovoked illegal wars and focus on the finish line
45:21
Somehow, I believe so. But I think what I also want to say is that in Sweden, we love American culture
45:29
what America has contributed to science and innovation. There's so many good things about America, or I should say USA
45:35
I believe you're right that it should be called that. Yes. But here comes the but
45:41
Go on. It's not in a relationship. This has become an abusive relationship now
45:45
And at some point, you just need to face reality and say to yourself that, sure, we live together
45:51
We have so much things intertwined in each other's lives, but this cannot go on
45:55
And rather than have this vulnerability of depending on America, the USA, we should look at other liberal democracies
46:05
I think Peter and Hackney say the same thing. There is the EU. There is Canada
46:10
There is Australia. And I think one thing we should all remind ourselves of
46:13
The reason we all took our lead from the USA in many questions is not, I believe, primarily because of financial might or military might even
46:24
It's because of something more intangible, shared values. And at the going rate, the way the country is developing in the USA, we are detaching ourselves in that very important aspect
46:36
And I think we should look at it more as, I dare to say, China, which we have cooperation with, we have economic trade with them, but we don't see them as an ally
46:46
We keep them at arm's distance. And I think this is what we need to start thinking of when it comes to the USA
46:54
Yeah, and I guess the obvious answer and the only answer to the question of who we start dating next or what the rebuild looks like is enhanced and much greater cooperation with our European allies
47:06
up to and now including matters military. So a European army feels at 10.59 today pretty close to inevitable
47:15
Actually, can I say something on that? Yeah, of course. There's a theory that I want to present
47:20
So in Sweden, there was huge opposition to joining NATO. Sweden only joined NATO two years ago
47:26
and there's still opposition to it in some quarters of society. And I believe the reason is that
47:31
and I think that's what Farage might have meant, is that when you are part of a military alliance
47:37
sometimes you join a war, not out of choice, but of obligation
47:41
Of course. Yeah, and I think that's perhaps what he meant, that if the UK is part of the European army
47:48
some wars will be entered, not because the UK wants to join
47:53
but because it has to join. But that's the same as Article 5 of NATO
47:57
Exactly. Yeah, no, you're being very generous. He didn't mean that. He just doesn't like fighting with the foreigns
48:03
Well, I think so. And he was using the shadow of the Second World War to scare credulous people into thinking
48:09
that the European Union would somehow represent a victory for the Germans
48:14
In fact, I think they used to even say stuff like that. It's extraordinary how much of this gets washed away, isn't it, by events
48:20
I've got a missing word round for you. It has a sort of military element to it. You're going to enjoy this
48:25
Here's the headline with two words removed, cunningly by me. Pilots rebuked for flying in blank blanks
48:33
if you don't know this and you guessed correctly you probably need some sort of help
48:37
pilots rebuked for flying in blank blanks and if you don't know this and you guessed correctly
48:43
and you text me the answer I probably won't believe you anyway but whatever you do don't put your answer
48:47
into your search engine by accident pilots rebuked for flying in blank blanks
48:53
four minutes after eleven is the time nobody's seen it yet this story I don't think
49:02
I'll have a look at some of your answers shortly. It's very, very funny
49:07
I want to do something a little bit different with you now, if I may
49:11
And it is a question that we've asked before, but not in this way
49:18
The social media addictions that seem to be blighting so many existences
49:24
particularly of young people. You touched on it yesterday, didn't we? This sense that moral panics through the ages
49:31
all of the things that were supposed to represent a profound threat to decency and normality
49:38
whether it was video games or video nasties came before video games, video nasties, video games
49:47
What else was on the moral panic list? The things that were going to be so damaging to the younger generation
49:53
that their poor little brains would be boiled beyond all recognition. And they've almost all, well, they have all pretty much passed off
50:01
without any of the horrors predicted by the usual suspects being visited upon us
50:07
And I've got a problem now. I've got a lot of problems, but that ain't one
50:11
I've got a problem now because I imagine at the time, there must have been people like me who try their best to, you know
50:20
be honest and look past the attempts to scaremonger and so fear
50:28
There must have been people like me who sat there going, do you know what, I think the video games might actually be the real deal
50:35
I think this might be the moral panic that we should actually be very scared about
50:39
It's not like the video nasties. You know, the video game... I had one thought when I was playing a lot of Grand Theft Auto
50:45
and it was, I'd be driving around town sometimes, and I'd see a nice motorbike
50:51
I'd see somebody go past on a nice motorbike. And I had this very brief impulse to knock him off his bike and steal it and ride away
50:59
because that's what you do in the game. But it's just like the tiniest impulse
51:05
And it just made me wonder what had happened to my brain to make that happen
51:08
because when you're playing Football Manager or Jet Set Willie as a teenager, these things were not happening to your brain
51:16
You never found yourself walking across the landing of a staircase and thinking, oh, I might just see if I can jump up onto the next one
51:22
because that's what you do in the video game. But there was something so immersive
51:26
about that new generation of video game. of which Grand Theft Auto was the pioneer
51:33
that you genuinely carried almost echoes of the game into your real life
51:39
So I don't think it would be fair of me to say that everybody who ever believes in a moral panic is an idiot until now
51:47
because I believe in this one. I think, as a caller yesterday, in a completely different subject
51:53
what were we talking about yesterday, the teacher? We're talking about young people and our betrayal of them
52:00
And social media being a huge part of the burdens that they carry. And representatives from Meta, Roblox and TikTok have all been telling MPs
52:12
that their platforms are not inherently addictive. I mean, what's your first thought
52:23
they would say that wouldn they Do you know that Elon Musk Twitter has refused to take down hideous footage that the Southport killer was watching moments before he made his way to that dance class
52:37
That's free speech for you, in Elon Musk and J.D. Vance's world
52:42
But they would say that, wouldn't they? It's a bit like the water companies, isn't it
52:47
They're not going to stop pumping shocking amounts of sewage into our waterways
52:51
unless it costs them more to do it than it does not to do it
52:57
That is probably the cleverest thing I said last year. And I appreciate it. There's not a lot of competition
53:03
But it is so simple. Sometimes the cleverness lies in getting it as simple
53:07
boiling it down to absolute bare minimum of words that convey 100% of meaning
53:15
They will not stop pumping sewage into our waterways until it costs them more to do it than it does not to do it
53:24
And the same is true of social media companies. They will not stop pursuing and corrupting young minds
53:31
unless it costs them more to carry on doing it than it does to stop doing it
53:36
And the only way you do that is with absolutely high-level legislation and regulation
53:44
But it is the nature of addiction that I am interested in today
53:48
because they are going to say that it's not addictive and it is not going to be immediately easy to prove, if you like, that it is
54:01
So I wonder whether this will work, and I hope it will
54:06
but I will be nothing without you. I remember being a little bit puzzled and not unamused
54:12
when we first heard about sex addiction. Do you remember that? If you're my age, it was probably Michael Douglas
54:18
Michael Douglas was the first person we'd ever heard of who was suffering from a sex addiction
54:24
And you sort of thought at first glance, you thought, flip it out, I'd rather be addicted to sex than heroin
54:29
And then when you actually thought about it, or if you did any research into addiction
54:33
or tried to find out more about these matters, the addiction to the dopamine, the addiction to the brain chemistry
54:39
the boost in your brain chemistry that you get, doesn't have to be chemical
54:44
It doesn't have to involve ingesting chemicals. it can involve doing things that prompt your brain to release the chemicals
54:50
So the more you thought about it and the more you looked at it, the more plausible it became that you could be addicted to sex
54:57
It sounded like a brilliant excuse in a sort of end-of-the-peer, saucy postcard kind of way, didn't it
55:04
You could just imagine Andy... Well, not Andy Capp, because he wasn't very active in that department
55:08
but you could just imagine a sort of carry-on film character, Sid James probably
55:13
telling his wife that he can't help cheating on her with Barbara Windsor
55:18
because he's got a sex addiction. He's got a doctor. Jim Dale would come in as the doctor, wouldn't he
55:22
And Jim Dale in his white coat would say, yes, he has a sex addiction. And we'd all s and think that it was funny
55:27
It's not funny at all, I don't imagine, if you're suffering from it. It's certainly not funny at all if you're being betrayed by somebody
55:32
who is suffering from it. So the nature of addiction in the course of our life
55:38
our understanding of it in the course of our lives, has changed a lot
55:42
in the same way that perhaps our understanding of neurodiversity has. When I was a kid, there were people who didn't think dyslexia was real
55:49
in much the same way that various idiots today don't think that ADHD is real
55:54
or that other neurodiversities can't possibly exist because they didn't have a name when I was young
55:59
This is pretty much what you need to have as a worldview in order to get a column in the Daily Mail
56:03
So we know that addiction is different and that it is not just going to be about crack cocaine or even gambling
56:12
I want people who have been addicted to other things to tell me whether or not they think
56:22
that social media platforms are addictive. I just want you to tell me what it is
56:30
that makes an addiction, what constitutes an addiction. It's 11 minutes after 11
56:39
That's the ask, okay? 0345 6060 973. And it's, I think, I think there's a growing understanding
56:52
of the dangers of these platforms. I remember a friend of mine who worked in marketing
56:56
I've told you this before, but it's worth repeating because he was one of the people that I would consult
57:00
when I was having conversations about some various technologies or various developments
57:05
He's no longer with us, sadly. I've lost two friends in the last, um
57:09
five or six years, who were my go-to guys for insights into the industry
57:17
into the interplay of media and social media and marketing and hooking consumers
57:23
And I've lost them both. So a grim coincidence. But he had a look at TikTok
57:28
because his daughter was using it and he was unfamiliar with the platform
57:34
Eventually you run out, don't you? I had quite a big presence on Facebook
57:38
I had a massive presence on Twitter, I've got quite a big presence on Blue Sky. I'm never on Instagram
57:43
I don't even know if I've got an account on TikTok. I don't know if you can just eventually reach a point
57:48
where you say, oh, it's one platform too many. But anyway, you need to be across some of it
57:54
if your children are using it. So he went on TikTok and he phoned me
58:00
And he said, I've just spent two hours on TikTok. And I said, well, well done
58:04
Why are you ringing me? He said, because I thought I'd spent 10 minutes. I've never seen anything like it in my life
58:12
I reacted to what was being put in front of me subconsciously
58:18
the stuff that I like which in his case and happily in mine
58:22
is relatively innocuous I'm currently being bombarded with film clips of bullies getting beaten up
58:30
I don't know what I did to make that the algorithm's delivery of choice at the moment
58:35
but it makes a change from ping pong which is where my algorithm always ultimately seems to go back to
58:40
But my mate rang me and he said, this is extraordinary because what I'm being fed now
58:47
is an absolutely unleavened diet of stuff I can't stop watching. And it took two hours
58:54
It took less than that for the algorithm to grab him by the ears
58:58
and package him up to sell, of course, to providers, to the platform, to advertisers
59:08
or whatever the business model ultimately is and turns out to be
59:12
But he couldn't believe how quickly it had turned into something that he felt he couldn't look away from
59:19
And when he checked the time, he'd been there for two hours, not ten minutes. So that, to me, speaks to something more
59:27
than me in the early days of Facebook catching up with lads I went to school with that I hadn't seen for 40 years
59:34
It speaks to something different, right? I think it speaks to addiction
59:42
I don't know what word we would use if the word is not addiction. But I just, out of my own personal curiosity
59:51
I want to know what actual addicts to more traditional things, former recovering addict, I think, I don't know if
59:59
it would be appropriate for you to bring me a few, well, yeah, it's up to you, isn't it? So, the more easily acceptable and understandable addictions, which will be drugs, it will be alcohol
1:00:11
Gambling's a really good example, because gambling doesn't involve ingesting chemicals, and yet I don't think anybody doubts that you can become addicted to gambling
1:00:20
So if gambling can be addictive, then of course I would argue a social media platform could be
1:00:28
It's quarter past 11. You challenge this if you want, but unless you've been paid a ton of money
1:00:33
by Meta, Roblox or TikTok, I can't currently conceive of how you could argue
1:00:37
that social media companies are not addictive. They've also said they think that a social media ban
1:00:44
on under-16s would be unenforceable. So, as I said, they're never going to do anything
1:00:48
unless they absolutely had to. Snapchat didn't even bother to turn up
1:00:53
They cancelled at quite short notice, which the committee chair was unhappy about
1:00:58
But as I said, you don't get these characters to do anything
1:01:02
unless they absolutely have to. And the first thing that they're not going to do
1:01:07
is admit that it's addictive. Of course they're not, any more than tobacco companies admitted
1:01:12
You see, younger listeners won't believe this. Tobacco companies knew that tobacco, knew that nicotine was addictive
1:01:19
decades before it was commonly and widely accepted. You know why they had to keep it quiet
1:01:25
because they were making a ton of money. It's why the name Don Perlman is the single..
1:01:32
If you only ever Google one thing as a consequence of listening to this programme
1:01:35
Google Don Perlman. I said this to you yesterday. He is the godfather of climate change denial
1:01:42
And once you read the detail of how he did it, I hope that you will find it as easy as I do
1:01:46
to dismiss the nonsense spouted by people like Nigel Farage and Nepo Baby Tice about net zero
1:01:53
Because this is what they do. They absolutely, deliberately destroy facts in pursuit of profits and money
1:02:01
So nicotine wasn't addictive, according to the tobacco companies, long after they had absolutely incontrovertible evidence that nicotine was addictive
1:02:10
Fossil fuels weren't causing pollution or climate change. It was denied by the fossil fuel companies long after they had incontrovertible evidence that it was
1:02:19
And social media companies today are denying that social media platforms are addictive
1:02:23
despite the fact that some of these dudes in California don't let their own children anywhere near the platforms
1:02:34
that they have made their fortunes from. Why would that be? So how do you prove it
1:02:42
I can't prove it definitively, but what we can do together is nudge towards two things
1:02:49
if you have a more traditional addiction which is an odd word to use but i think you know exactly
1:02:58
what i mean a more traditional a more widely understood addiction i want you to do one or two
1:03:06
of the following i want you either to tell me whether you think social media platforms are
1:03:12
correctly described as addictive, and or, I want you to tell me
1:03:18
how you would describe addiction to someone who has never been an addict
1:03:23
It's not FOMO, it's like a grade, isn't it? It's like depression, actually
1:03:28
We have all been sad, but we have not all been clinically depressed
1:03:33
People who have been clinically depressed, a bit like people who have got
1:03:37
obsessive-compulsive disorder, can be forgiven for being enormously impatient when the rest of us use those words
1:03:43
to describe relatively unspectacular happenings. Oh, I like to have my mugs all facing the same way in the cupboard
1:03:53
I'm so OCD about it. OCD is hell to live with. Wanting your mugs arranged in a certain way
1:04:00
is not a hellish consideration. Having to go through rituals to the point of interfering with your and the people around you
1:04:08
life is not funny or light-hearted. and ditto, you know, being a bit sad does not mean you're depressed
1:04:15
And so it is with addiction. You know, I find it quite hard to turn away from my phone
1:04:19
or I like a glass of wine in the evening. I want you to tell me what addiction is
1:04:24
and what distinguishes it from doing something too much or finding it hard to give something up
1:04:29
And those two things, I think, are where we're going next. What is it exactly and does social media fit the bill
1:04:38
because I stumbled into something quite significant a moment ago. I think you put social media on exactly the same graph
1:04:46
that you put nicotine and climate change denial. Things that the people that were making money from them
1:04:52
utterly denied the evidence and the science of in order to carry on making money
1:04:57
So the tobacconists denied that nicotine was addictive and the fossil fuel merchants denied that climate change was caused by them
1:05:06
And today we learn that representatives from Meta, Roblox and TikTok have all told MPs that their platforms are not inherently addictive to children and young people
1:05:18
Is that the same old story? James O'Brien on LBC. It is 22 minutes after 11. What is it exactly? And does social media fit the bill
1:05:30
Talking about addiction. Matthew's in Epsom. Matthew, what would you like to say
1:05:34
yeah i mean it's so that for me my experience you know i've been i've been in recovery for
1:05:43
coming up to 12 years now um qualified counsellor okay um so i've been in and around this this whole
1:05:52
scenario for a very long time worked with a lot of people in my experience and throughout my
1:05:58
recovery. Yes. And see, for me, and through my experience, it isn't
1:06:06
the thing what's addictive, it's the reason, you know, the mindset. Why do we
1:06:12
choose a certain path? Why do we choose social media? I mean, why do we choose alcoholism
1:06:18
crack, cocaine, heroin, gambling? You know. So you're comfortable with the notion that social media
1:06:24
can be addictive? Absolutely. I mean, I've worked with hundreds of people
1:06:30
Right. And when we get to work with these people and the people that work with me
1:06:35
it goes so far beyond that. Now, for me, I can only talk of my experience
1:06:40
Of course. Working in prisons and rehabs. When we look to the deep root cause of it
1:06:47
root and branch, it was an escape. I chose alcohol and cocaine as my escape
1:06:53
Although a beautiful upbringing, a wonderful family, everything was right in my path but i didn't identify anything wrong with me and then when
1:07:04
i found this substance which was that that thing yeah it it changed my reality and i started to
1:07:11
live in a false reality um and i lived in that false reality for a very long time um and it's
1:07:17
the same thing with social media i was speaking to the lady just beforehand i remember you know
1:07:21
I in recovery and my social media started to sort of come about And you know I try to because I identify with addiction and alcoholism and whatever you want to call it the mindset when I used to take the laptops off my children they
1:07:36
used to go in like an absolute meltdown you know and so I identify that as an addictive personality
1:07:43
and negative nature. Wow. And so yeah I mean. Because they're it's not I can't I just want to
1:07:53
try and build a bridge between those two universes. And it's really good that you're describing your own addiction
1:08:00
without reference to trauma or anything. It was almost you stumbled into this alternative universe
1:08:06
that you ended up preferring to the real one, but you weren't necessarily running away from trauma or pain
1:08:11
or anything like that, which is why you were at pains, to stress the health, the good health, the good nature of your background
1:08:18
And similarly, your kids are good kids, right? Yeah, fantastic, yeah. And yet, something gets us, something grabs us
1:08:27
and they are then preferring, preferring in some way, what's happening in the world of the screen
1:08:35
than what's happening outside the screen. And once you cross that Rubicon, once it's preferable
1:08:41
then you're in the foothills of addiction, aren't you? Yeah, certainly, you don't even know you're in it
1:08:46
I mean, what we see on the screens is the world, isn't it
1:08:50
And it's the money, it's the fast cars, it's the beautiful apartments
1:08:54
it's the wonderful places they go abroad. They can live that in their home front room
1:08:59
They're escaping reality. And this is my experience with it. I mean, until we actually start really looking at it
1:09:06
why are we at that point? I mean, let's say 50% of people that go on computers
1:09:12
you know, don't do it like that. They just go on it to enjoy it and they turn it off. They turn it off
1:09:16
But if you'll notice over the last sort of decade, you know a limited time on computers it's become more and more and the companies and i'm not
1:09:25
suggesting by any shape may you know what means that this is their intention but the company
1:09:32
i think know what's going on it's all about money it's all about how more how can they make it
1:09:37
attractive to the children and hence the reason you know we have an addictive see addiction doesn't
1:09:45
label itself, it will attach itself. It will attach itself to anything
1:09:50
And of course they're not going to admit it. Any more than the tobacco companies in the 1950s
1:09:56
were going to admit that nicotine was addictive. Addiction is profit. Mm-hmm
1:10:02
Isn't it? Absolutely. How worried are you then about this? I mean, given the work that you do
1:10:09
and wearing all your hats, Matthew, your dad hat, your counsellor hat
1:10:14
and your recovering addict hat, How big a threat do you think social media poses to the fabric of society, I was going to say
1:10:23
Unfortunately, what I've seen, and, you know, I've worked with many, it's an unstoppable force
1:10:31
It's an unstoppable force, and the only way that it can be stoppable is by the people who present this force
1:10:38
and again you've got to make it cost more to fix it
1:10:43
cost less, you know it's going to cost them more to carry on doing this
1:10:46
than it is to stop doing it and that's only something that governments can do which is of course why
1:10:51
well one of the reasons why Elon Musk likes to lie so blatantly and flagrantly
1:10:56
about both freedom of speech and regulation of social media Matthew, thank you
1:11:02
I'm going to read you something actually because this is where my privilege kicks in a bit
1:11:07
David's got in touch while you were talking, Matthew. And he said, this guy is brilliant
1:11:11
It's really interesting that I found it difficult to listen to him at first because he speaks just like me, i.e. common
1:11:18
but he is very smart. And I just read that and my heart sank. I thought, why on earth would the way that someone talks
1:11:25
make you think that it reflects upon their intelligence? But I just wanted you to know that you won over a lot of people
1:11:32
You impressed a lot of people while you were talking. I want to grab David by the ears and give his head a wobble
1:11:36
That's the language of forelock tugging and cap doffing. Jacob Rees-Mogg is as thick as mince, mate
1:11:42
but he sounds like Lord Snooty. Do not associate accent with intelligence
1:11:46
That way Brexit lies. James is in Mablethorpe in Lincolnshire. James, what would you like to say
1:11:51
Morning, James. Hello, James. So, you're asking for experience of addiction of cells
1:11:57
So, much like your last call, I'm a recovering alcoholic, 27 years
1:12:01
So, just trying to condense my experience all those years into a short amount of time
1:12:06
I was born to a drinking household, but probably much like yourself in the late 70s and early 80s
1:12:13
is bringing up, that's how it was. So we drank at home. My parents drank
1:12:19
From school, we would go to the pub every Friday night from the age of 16, et cetera, and it was a normal thing
1:12:25
So there's a lot of heavy drinking going on. Some of those, some people develop problems
1:12:30
and develop addiction, alcoholism, some don't. That's another crucial element of this conversation
1:12:35
because there's no point sitting there thinking, well, I'm on social media a lot. I'm not addicted
1:12:39
What are they all talking about? It's a bit like saying, I had a pint last week
1:12:42
and I'm not an alcoholic. What are they all talking about? Of course they both exist. Yeah, absolutely
1:12:48
And as I said, it's very difficult to find a single reason for that. I mean, it's complex solutions for complex problems, as ever
1:12:54
Yes. Myself, I mean, obviously, I've had a long, long time to think about it
1:12:59
and I guess a lot of it was about... I also came from a very high expectation background
1:13:04
I had four brothers. Two of us became alcoholic. Two of us didn't
1:13:08
Who knows why? But now three are lawyers and I'm a doctor
1:13:12
You know, we did all right in the end. But I had a very, very harmful time
1:13:15
and I maybe nearly didn't make it to whatever, but I did do. And it's 27 years later
1:13:20
I've said I've got a lot to think about in that meantime. So you talk about social media
1:13:25
I think social media is more difficult than alcohol or cigarettes or whatever
1:13:30
because not saying recovery from alcohol is easy, isn't it? It took me a good 10 years to get to that space
1:13:36
But it's something you can remove from your life is the crucial thing. Yes. It's almost impossible to remove social media from your life now
1:13:43
from your work, from your social situations, everything, isn't it? I think it is
1:13:48
Although, I mean, I left Twitter. Yeah, yeah. And didn't really look back
1:13:54
I mean, I still enjoy Blue Sky, but the engagement levels are a refraction of what they were
1:14:01
I mean, the overall numbers. I'm just wondering whether you can... Are we sure
1:14:05
I mean, for a young person not to be on social media at all would probably be social death, wouldn't it
1:14:13
Yeah, absolutely. A lot of my professional support network is social media also
1:14:18
Maybe a different kind of social media. Well, yeah, WhatsApp isn't... I don't consider WhatsApp to be social media
1:14:23
The platforms I'm talking about are the ones that put stuff in front of you that you never would have seen in your life
1:14:28
Not just, like, chats and contacts. I think you could probably wean yourself off that
1:14:32
Probably. Yeah, I guess. We're talking about Facebook Reels and TikTok. Yeah, exactly that
1:14:37
Well, the three companies that said it's not addictive at all were Meta, which is Facebook, Roblox, and TikTok
1:14:45
Roblox is the one about which I know the least. So you... I don't think we're going to find anyone
1:14:49
that disputes the idea that these platforms can be addictive are we No I mean they would say that wouldn they of course Yeah But the other thing is I sure you aware of that that Naomi Klein many years ago characterised large corporations like that as psychopathic
1:15:08
The reason being that their only responsibilities are to their shareholders and the law stroke regulation
1:15:14
And ever since Reagan, the political weather has been, and Thatcher, has been about removing regulation
1:15:20
There's a new book coming out, actually, by Hetty O'Brien that speaks to that exact point
1:15:25
from the point of view of venture capitalists, which are almost like the, you know, what Naomi Klein
1:15:30
Is it No Logo, the book that you're referring to? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's No Logo all those years ago
1:15:36
I'm saying 20 years, it might be longer. I know, I'm going to try and get Hetty O'Brien on the programme
1:15:40
to talk about her new book, which is an evolution of that process, and it's one of the things we talk about a lot on the show
1:15:45
And in many ways, the best example are the water companies, because the idea that a company that is in existence
1:15:52
to provide us with water is poisoning our water is comical, really, from one angle
1:15:57
and inevitable from the other. And the angle from which it is inevitable is the angle to which James refers
1:16:03
and which Naomi Klein wrote about, which is that that's what they exist to do. They exist to make money
1:16:07
They don't buy a water company because they love water. They buy a water company because they love money
1:16:12
They don't buy an old people's home because they love old people. They buy an old people's home because they love money
1:16:17
They don't buy a care home for vulnerable children because they love vulnerable children
1:16:22
they buy a care home for vulnerable children because they love money. They don't buy a chain of steak restaurants
1:16:27
because they love feeding people or steak. They buy a chain of steak restaurants because they love money
1:16:32
They see absolutely everything that can be... that involves anybody anywhere handing over money
1:16:39
They just see it as something to be squeezed and squeezed and squeezed until it's dry
1:16:45
And that is what politicians who talk about deregulation or getting rid of red tape are themselves addicts
1:16:52
to. They are in the business and often in the pockets of the people that want to make
1:16:56
the money out of your water and make the money out of your care home and make the money out of your grandma's
1:17:00
care fees. That's what they see. They only see money. They don't see people. They don't even see
1:17:06
product. They just see money. And I'm never going to stop pointing that out, even if
1:17:12
and when everybody can see it as clearly as I do. Dominic Ellis
1:17:16
has your headline. James O'Brien on LBC. All roads lead to state corporate
1:17:22
harm maximization. A phrase I only discovered when I was writing a book, and for reasons that I can't fully
1:17:29
remember, because it was, I think, my first book, I wanted to include fixed odds
1:17:33
betting terminals. Because they were a scourge. Two of the biggest things that are
1:17:41
examples of state corporate harm maximization that have happened in the years that I've been doing this job
1:17:46
don't involve chemicals. They're talking about addiction. They involve people. The fixed odds betting terminals, known as the crack cocaine of fruit machines at one point
1:17:58
and the payday loan companies. Do you remember payday loan companies? Payday loan companies in
1:18:04
many ways are the perfect example of state corporate harm maximization. It doesn't have
1:18:08
to involve addiction, but it is the systematic, and I'm going to read this from an open university
1:18:13
document because I want to get it absolutely right, the systematic production of social
1:18:18
environmental and physical injury resulting from, and this is the bit, mutually reinforcing
1:18:25
collusive relationships between government and private corporations. So they will not stop doing
1:18:34
bad things until it costs them more to carry on than it does to stop. Payday loan companies
1:18:40
eventually got regulated out of existence in their most egregious form. Fixed odds betting terminals
1:18:47
the effort that the gambling lobbies put into resisting legislation on how big a stake you could make, how much money you could lose
1:18:54
That's collusion between corporation and business. If I were you, I would keep a very, very close eye
1:19:01
on politicians cosying up to Bitcoin companies or to cryptocurrency companies. We've already seen in the United States some extremely sharp practice
1:19:10
But any UK politicians, and the sooner a government, any government introduces legislation to ban donations via cryptocurrency to political parties
1:19:20
or indeed the retention of the services of politicians by cryptocurrency companies
1:19:25
I'd watch that very, very closely because the examples of collusion between government and private corporation
1:19:32
to minimise regulation, to protect consumers, is at the absolute heart of so many of the worst things that can happen to societies
1:19:42
up to and including social media platforms that we're talking about today
1:19:49
Because, unless they're regulated, they will continue to cause harm. And the people who are profiting from the harm that they cause
1:19:57
will continue to exist that they're not addictive. But we know better. At least I think we do
1:20:02
Adam's in Chesterfield. Adam, what would you like to say? Hello, James. How you doing, pal
1:20:06
All good. What's on your mind? Good, man. I'm a bit nervous. Sorry, mate
1:20:10
Don't be. It's only me. Seriously. I know, I know. I hear people say it all the time. What I wanted to put in, and that's, I'm coming from
1:20:18
look, your other callers are absolutely 100% correct. As an alcoholic and as, you know, someone who's played
1:20:27
not played, but, you know, been addicted to other substances in the past
1:20:31
Sure. The difference between, like, so the same as what you said in the gambling
1:20:36
with the difference in social media is that it's got the algorithm
1:20:41
The algorithm is what sets it apart. It's like having a cocaine dealer in your pocket all the time
1:20:48
You can't escape that. If you're in the throes of cocaine addiction or alcohol addiction
1:20:53
you haven't got a... There's not a pub in your... It's not a self-replicating product
1:20:58
Whereas with the algorithm, you've got your phone in your pocket. Most of us need it for our everyday jobs, etc., etc
1:21:05
But the algorithm is the difference here. And that's the point. That's the only point I want to make, really
1:21:09
And it gets its claws into you early doors. I mean, every time you take it out of your pocket
1:21:15
it's worked out what it is that is most likely to get an emotional reaction from you
1:21:19
100%. Me and my wife are definitely both addicted to it. Like, you know, we both find ourselves doom-scrolling
1:21:25
Oh, we haven't spoken for a couple of hours. Wow. And we're just, you know, I'll be on people's comments on YouTube or something
1:21:31
you know, just going through. I'm not even responding to it. I'm just like, yeah. Sure
1:21:35
Well, I guess if you've been through what you've been through, then this is, I suppose, a much less dangerous addiction
1:21:41
than the ones that you are recovering from. So it's an odd hierarchy, isn't it, of concern
1:21:48
But for children, that doesn't hold true at all. It's kind of robbing them of stuff that they're never ever going to get back
1:21:56
I never let my children use it when they were younger. And we were really, really strict on it
1:22:04
and they thank me as adults now, so they're a bit older
1:22:09
My youngest is 18 now. Oh, that's good. And they actually, you know, and actually I think they've come to a point now
1:22:14
where some of them, around that age group, have sort of, they're pushing it away
1:22:19
Yes, they are. I've detected, well, I mean, in our experience they are. I haven seen any research into broader societal trends but the other really interesting thing is the number of kind of 18 to 25 who are all in favour of a ban on social media for under which doesn feel like hypocrisy It more like lessons learned isn it
1:22:39
Yeah, for sure. Look at the damage it's done ours. Thank you, mate. I don't know what you were nervous about
1:22:43
That was brilliant. No, I don't know. Your next book's definitely got to be How They Broke the Bloody Internet
1:22:50
Well, do you know, there are much, much better qualified people than me to write that one
1:22:54
But you're right. It would be nice to have it all assembled in one place
1:22:58
Thank you, Adam. Stay safe. 11.42 is the time. Sarah is in Litchfield
1:23:03
Sarah, what would you like to say? Oh, how are you, James? I hope you are
1:23:08
Yeah, I'm another one. Recovering alcoholic. I think all the recovering alcoholics
1:23:14
sort of joining the dots with the line, aren't they, here? Yes, I think so. Yeah, but although I was addicted to alcohol
1:23:21
to answer the actual questions you asked, I would define addiction as a compulsion, a compulsion to take part in a substance or an activity that you have no control over
1:23:39
You have an inability to control that compulsion. So it comes down to, basically, it's only my opinion
1:23:48
I think it comes down to the inability to self-regulate, which is transferable
1:23:55
So, for example, with social media, oh my God, of course it's addictive
1:24:00
It's screeningly obvious it's addictive. And we've got age limits on every single thing we've talked about today
1:24:07
except social media. We've got age limits on gambling, we've got age limits on alcohol
1:24:11
Obviously, all drugs are illegal, but we've got age limits on nicotine
1:24:15
but we've got no age limits on social media. So you recognise that things are addictive
1:24:19
It doesn't mean you prohibit them entirely. Obviously, you know, no one's calling for alcohol to be rendered illegal
1:24:26
as a consequence of the people like you who end up suffering from addiction
1:24:30
But we never let children have unfettered access to any of these things legally
1:24:35
Exactly, and I do think there's such a thing as an addictive personality
1:24:41
Yes, I think you're probably right. I tried social media, and I can't remember, sorry, James
1:24:49
whether you were describing a friend or a caller who hadn't realised they'd been on it
1:24:54
It was my late friend. It was a friend who's no longer with us, actually. Oh, a couple of hours
1:24:59
A couple of hours. And I tried this, and I recognised my own pattern straight away
1:25:08
So I tried it, and I thought, oh, God, next. Next, next, swipe, next, next, swipe, next, next
1:25:14
And I thought, no, no, here we go, here we go. Or I've just transferred it to something else
1:25:19
Because it is transferable if you accept that it's a trait. But I still think, so I just switched it off
1:25:28
I'm not on any social media. But I do think it's self-regulation
1:25:35
And if I may, if you've got time, my parents are alcoholics
1:25:39
My entire family were alcoholics. Right. And in my family, it was spot the sober person as a child
1:25:46
Gosh. And it was kind of, I hated it for a while. Yes, I'm sure
1:25:50
Because I just thought it was like a zoo, you know. Well, you're not safe as a child
1:25:54
You're not safe. Adults are supposed to make you feel safe, and they don't make you feel safe if they're drunk
1:25:59
You come home from school, and it's either a party, or they're chucking bottles at each other
1:26:04
It's not ideal. And, no, I think I was going to have happier times
1:26:09
somewhere else. But the one thing, if you think about this business, when people say
1:26:14
does it run in families? Is it hereditary? Is it learned behaviour? Back to self-regulation
1:26:21
Because the one thing being brought up by alcoholics that my sister and I weren't taught
1:26:26
is any kind of self-regulation. Gosh. Saying no to yourself, essentially. So how many people ask their children, instead of saying to their children
1:26:37
That's it, 10 o'clock, you come off that. Come on in now, that's ridiculous, it's two hours
1:26:42
It's interesting if you ask children, how long do you think it's reasonable to spend
1:26:47
How long would you like to spend on doing this? I'd say all day, which is normal
1:26:54
but sort of like when they get to a more reasonable kind of
1:26:58
you know, sort of 14, 15, 16-year-old. It's quite surprising I occasionally ask kids, you know
1:27:06
how long, just out of interest, no judgment, how long do you spend on TikTok
1:27:12
They'll go, well, I start off and I really, I don't really intend to, but I kind of
1:27:19
yeah, I just do it to about one o'clock in the morning. I wish I could limit myself more
1:27:23
I wish I could self-regulate, they're saying, aren't they? But it's so, that's, if you teach children
1:27:29
about self-regulation. And if you can't teach them, then you help them by having, you know
1:27:36
sort of technology attuned to stop, to have limits on how much they can. I know there's always way round
1:27:42
and loopholes. Well, you wouldn't let them burn themselves, would you? No, exactly. Kids can still
1:27:46
pay someone else to get them cigarettes. No one says we should legalise cigarettes for children
1:27:50
just because they can ask their cousin or some adult walking past the
1:27:56
newsagents to go and get. Just because loopholes exist doesn't mean you don't try
1:28:00
your best to fix things. You're absolutely right. Do you remember Boundaries
1:28:05
Having boundaries. Because if somebody came at you with an iron, you would immediately
1:28:12
if somebody came at you with something hot, and you were going to get burnt
1:28:16
you'd set up a boundary, wouldn't you? You'd say, don't come near me with that
1:28:21
But why is it? Because it's on this thing that, as the other gentleman said, it's in our pockets
1:28:27
It's instantly available. And it's the parents as well. The parents feel the embarrassment that they shouldn't feel
1:28:34
I've got to be talking to other parents that they won't let their child go on their mobile phone
1:28:39
because they will be ostracized. And then they feel cruel or they feel Victorian
1:28:43
And that's changing as well. And give the parents a break because it's a moving bus
1:28:48
that they're trying to jump on and off, you know. Our parents didn't have to deal with this particular issue
1:28:53
although they had, as you've reminded us, some of them had issues of their own as well
1:28:57
So that was brilliant. Thank you so much for calling in today. And congratulations
1:29:02
Is that the right word to use on your continuing recovery? Well, I like to think that it's great to be normal
1:29:08
Yes. I don't know what that is. Well, that's all we're back to yesterday's show, aren't we, about grown-ups
1:29:13
But seriously, you're sounding in fine fettle, Sarah. It's a pleasure to listen to you
1:29:17
It's 11.49. James O'Brien on LBC. 11.52, you're listening to James O'Brien on LBC
1:29:25
And I do think that this is significant, The parallels that we've drawn with other very, very profitable products from the past that the people profiting from went to great pains to deny the dangers of
1:29:43
I hadn't properly spotted it before, actually, but I hadn't read such a stark headline before
1:29:49
Executives from three social media companies have denied their platforms are inherently addictive to children and young people
1:29:57
and you sort of do a double-tale don't you? You sort of do a double take. You sort of go, hang on a minute. Of course they're
1:30:05
addicted. Everybody knows they're addictive. And then I found myself thinking before we
1:30:09
came on air this morning, who's the best person to ask? And then it struck me, the best people
1:30:14
to ask are people who have been addicted to other things, things that nobody disputes the
1:30:18
addictive nature of. And lo and behold, everybody reckons that social media platforms are addictive
1:30:26
Lee speaks for many of you when he writes, the standard of your callers is once again amazing
1:30:31
You're absolutely right. Patrick, meanwhile, I think, has a lesson for everybody
1:30:36
He writes, now I feel bad because I interrupted your intro and totally missed your point
1:30:40
Well, there are two thoughts there. Perhaps if my intros were shorter, my point would be clearer sooner
1:30:45
But more importantly, don't interrupt me when I'm in the middle of a monologue
1:30:49
Because you won't know exactly where I'm going or what I'm going to say until I get to the end of it
1:30:54
That's all right. 11.54 is the time. Justin is in Pearlie. Justin, what made you pick up the phone
1:31:00
Good morning, James. How are you doing? Very well, mate. What's on your mind? Social media
1:31:05
Is it addictive? Yes, completely. I'm on social media. I'm a content creator on TikTok
1:31:12
Okay. And I can't leave it alone. Day and night, I'm on that
1:31:18
I'm also on Instagram. I'm on threads. I'm on Twitter. I'm on Blue Sky
1:31:24
and I'm pushing social media left, right and centre. But I literally, I started with a few viewers on YouTube
1:31:32
Then I found... I don't want to be rude before we continue the conversation
1:31:36
but this isn't an invitation to promote your account. No, no, I'm not doing that at all
1:31:41
No, no, I'm not going to do that at all. Just checking. I mean, that's because if you're doing something like that
1:31:46
you're not just a... I don't know, you're addicted to creating content
1:31:50
as opposed to consuming content. I'm also addicted to the likes and the comments
1:31:56
that I get as well, which is the other thing what you get from it, exactly
1:32:00
that's the bit, I mean the dopamine hit I get from getting several
1:32:04
thousand people looking at what I'm doing or commenting on what I'm doing or liking what
1:32:08
I'm doing, that drives me on every morning I get up and I check my numbers
1:32:13
see what's going on there, I move forward from there, find out what worked, what didn't work
1:32:17
try to do that, according to the Sunday Times according to the Sunday Times
1:32:21
the first thing I do when I get to work is check my numbers, but I'm happy to confirm that that's not actually true
1:32:26
But are you troubled by this? You don't sound necessarily too troubled by it
1:32:31
I am a little bit, because it is an obsession. It's an obsession that is actually damaged a couple..
1:32:38
I'm a private gardener as well, and it's damaged a couple of customers
1:32:42
because they found me TikToking in their garden. Oh, that's interesting. So, I mean, if they found you drinking in their garden
1:32:48
or found you gambling in their garden, and they'd be cross. They'd probably be all right
1:32:52
Well, up to a point, I suppose, but they don't want you to be doing things
1:32:57
that they're not paying you to do while they're paying you to do something else. Exactly
1:33:02
Do you want to get off it? Oh, see, that's a question, you see
1:33:08
I don't think so. Well, then I don't know if you're addicted, or certainly if you are addicted
1:33:11
you haven't reached rock bottom, have you, if you don't want to get off it? No, I haven't yet, no. No, I mean, I've had a turbulent time on social media
1:33:18
with some of the comments I've got back and stuff, and it's kind of been a bit wild. But other than that, it's quite a nice ride at the moment
1:33:26
Well, do you know, I'm glad you called, and I'm glad I didn't jump down your throat too violently
1:33:31
when it looked as if you were just going to start bigging up your own content. Because you're speaking from a different angle
1:33:36
as both creator and consumer. But I'd forgotten about the tyranny of likes, as it were
1:33:42
And of course, that's all going to be relative. So if you've never had 50 likes before, and you get 50 likes
1:33:48
it gives you a little boost. I mean the politics we haven't touched on, the way in which the people are not remotely interested in whether stuff is true or not
1:33:58
They're interested solely in how many reactions it gets. Elon Musk has turned it into quite a lucrative business, telling racist lies on Twitter is practically a career option now for some people
1:34:09
Ditto YouTube, I suppose, and other things. So that side of it, monetized and addictive
1:34:18
alongside the algorithm just constantly feeding you an unleavened diet of stuff that they've worked out you like
1:34:26
And of course, that stuff might not even be harmful. You might be addicted to pictures of fluffy kittens
1:34:31
If it gives you a nice warm feeling inside, you will keep coming back for more
1:34:35
At the point at which it becomes dangerous is the point that Justin's led us to
1:34:40
and that's not something that I can answer at the moment. It's not, as Stephanie suggested right at the top of this hour in a text
1:34:47
that addiction rules your life to the exclusion of all else. I don't actually think that's true
1:34:52
That's what a functioning alcoholic is, isn't it? Someone who can outwardly appear to be absolutely fine
1:34:58
and yet there is a physical dependence upon alcohol. I think that a social media addiction is going to be clear
1:35:05
to the person suffering from it and the people closest to them
1:35:09
but the fact that it's dangerous or damaging may not be immediately evident
1:35:14
Speaking of immediately evident, absolutely nobody correctly guessed the missing word around this hour
1:35:21
We began by asking what words are missing from this headline. Pilots rebuked for flying in blank blanks
1:35:28
And the problem in my inbox now is if I ask you a question at five past eleven
1:35:32
by two minutes to twelve, there's no way I'm going to be able to find all the answers there
1:35:37
Someone said wife's underwear, which I thought was a little bit carry-on films
1:35:42
Some people got it, but they were clearly cheating, because there's no earthly way that anybody correctly guessed
1:35:47
the missing words in this headline. Oh, well done, Keith. That sounded deliberate, almost
1:35:53
Pilots rebuked for flying in... You might want to cover the children's ears at this point
1:36:00
No, you don't. I'm joking. Penis shapes. That sounds like the world's worst pasta
1:36:07
Pilots rebuked for flying in penis shapes. That solves one mystery, at least, before we head upon or into Mystery Hour
1:36:19
your weekly opportunity to get answers to all sorts of other questions. And don't blame me, that was the headline in the news
1:36:25
Mystery Hour is a sort of radio equivalent of those newspaper columns
1:36:29
where you write in with a mystery and other readers write in with an answer
1:36:33
The major difference being that it all happens in a single hour. James O'Brien on LBC
1:36:38
Three minutes after 12 is the time. Good Lord, mystery hour is upon us already. Well, I kind of knew that
1:36:43
I told you five minutes ago, didn't I? If you're not familiar with this part of the programme
1:36:47
I should warn you, it's rather different from the other 14 hours of the week that we could potentially spend together
1:36:52
15, of course, if you include the podcast. More than that, I suppose, if you know me socially
1:36:58
I invite you to ring me with a question. A who, a why, a what, a when, a when, a when, a when
1:37:04
I'll start again. I'll put my teeth in and try again. Thank you, Keith
1:37:08
You ring me with a question. A who, a why, a what, a when, a whether, a wither or a wherefore
1:37:13
Not a whether, a wither. Even the occasional whence. And someone else then rings in with the answer
1:37:18
It may not sound particularly exciting, but it is. I promise you
1:37:22
Somewhere between those two points that the question is asked and the question is answered the magic occurs The magic is in the margins The magic always in the margins isn it And um if you don believe me well there only one way to find out whether I telling the truth
1:37:36
It gets better. My favourite contributor of the week will win a Mystery Hour game
1:37:40
There are now two Mystery Hour games. So successful is this radio feature that it has spawned
1:37:45
not one, count them, but two individual, separate, freestanding games. One, a traditional board game
1:37:51
One, a travel game. It's in a tin. You can pick, actually, which one you would prefer
1:37:57
Find out more about both of the Mystery Hour games at mysteryhour.co.uk
1:38:03
Full terms and conditions, because that's a proper competition with a proper prize, like what the grown-ups do
1:38:07
You can find the full terms and conditions at lbc.co.uk. And that's it, really
1:38:14
We used to try and police repetition and dullness, but frankly, they're both in the ear or the eye of the beholder
1:38:20
I don't like motoring questions, and I will get cross if motoring questions somehow slip through the net
1:38:27
and get onto the programme. But other than that, fill your boots. Anything you're puzzled by, you've sort of looked at and thought
1:38:33
what's that about? Why do we do that? Sometimes questions... I wore a shirt yesterday
1:38:37
That's not the end of the anecdote. I wore a shirt yesterday and I noticed it had the horizontal buttonhole
1:38:43
on the bottom button. It wasn't a dress shirt. It was from a rather splendid designer called Oliver James, actually
1:38:51
and it was a question last week and I found myself thinking, oh of course
1:38:57
why is the bottom button horizontal? why is the bottom buttonhole on a men's shirt horizontal
1:39:02
while all the other buttonholes are vertical? and the answer is pressure
1:39:06
so you tuck in a shirt, the pressure is downward whereas everywhere else on your shirt, the pressure is outward
1:39:13
it's like your chest, especially if like me, you're stacked and you've got very well developed pectoral muscles
1:39:20
You're bursting out of your shirt like Bruce Banner as he turns into the Incredible Hulk
1:39:25
So you... Unhinged headline. Was that deliberate? It's not just an alarm for lies, Keith
1:39:36
You can't just do that willy-nilly. But the bottom buttonhole, as we discovered last week on Mystery Hour, is horizontal because you're pushing it down
1:39:47
So the pressure is... Anyway, I digress slightly. It gives you an idea. So it can have silly stuff or serious stuff
1:39:53
We can have big, hot-shot scientific questions which have traditionally been asked by
1:39:58
answered rather by various professors, most famously Professor Howell himself. Or it can be a very silly question
1:40:04
that somebody will know the answer to, but you're dashed if you can work out who
1:40:09
Quick shout to Rachel, who played the game in a tin with her daughter last night
1:40:13
which is wonderful to hear. The word is spreading. Seven minutes after 12 is the time
1:40:18
Maya is in Liverpool. Maya, question or answer? It's a question, please, James
1:40:22
Carry on, Maya. So I work in hospitality, and whenever we have a briefing before service
1:40:29
the chef will come out and he'll say, 86, the chicken. So we don't have the chicken anymore
1:40:35
We don't have it for this service. If we're mid-service, the bartender might go
1:40:38
86, the Guinness, we've run out. And I just want to know where 86 comes from
1:40:42
It doesn't really rhyme with anything. There's not really any other numbers in hospitality
1:40:47
And I just want to know where it comes from. 86. I bet it does rhyme with something
1:40:52
Well, I was trying to think. So am I now. I can't, because... 86. And so you say, you use it as a verb
1:40:59
You say 86 the chicken, not the chicken is 86ed or anything like that
1:41:02
It can be both. Okay. It's David Banner, not Bruce Banner. My apologies for my last misspeak
1:41:09
Hang on. Okay, you're on. Are you quite high-end hospitality, or does this hold true across all levels
1:41:16
I work in, it's almost like a Michelin star pub in Ockshott
1:41:21
How delightful. I thought you might. I thought it might be posh. Is it the accent
1:41:25
No, not you. Not you being posh. Just like, because I've worked in, well, no, I can turn this quite happily back
1:41:30
I've worked in hospitality a lot and I've never heard that phrase. But while the establishments I worked in were delightful
1:41:37
they were not anywhere close to Michelin star level. So I just presumed it was a bit higher end than the stuff that I had experienced
1:41:43
you're on, I like it what does it mean, why do we say 86 the chicken
1:41:48
when we've run out of chicken in a restaurant 03456060973 do you know one of the most
1:41:54
distracting and unnerving things about this job, I'm going to confide in you
1:41:58
now in a slightly unprofessional fashion it's when Keith and Eleanor start giggling hysterically at something
1:42:04
I know nothing, I have no idea what you're finding so funny on this occasion
1:42:09
that can be very, I think it, first of all I think it's deeply unprofessional
1:42:14
I bet that never happens on the Andrew Marr show. And second of all
1:42:17
it distracts from the central brilliance of the programme. So now I'm going to have to wait
1:42:23
while the words creep across my screen at an extraordinarily slow pace
1:42:28
to find out what it was they were laughing about. I asked Keith if he knows
1:42:33
which hospitality establishment you worked in, and he replied, I don't know
1:42:39
he probably just took his glass back to the bar. That's actually very funny
1:42:46
Yeah, all right, lads. Calm down. I've got a radio show to present. Jeff's in Stockbridge
1:42:50
Jeff, question or answer? I've got a question, James, please. I bet, Jeff, I'm not putting you on the spot now
1:42:56
I bet there are people listening to this programme now who can name the hospitality establishment that I have worked at
1:43:02
There's more than one, because they pay more attention to the programme that I present
1:43:06
than the actual producer and the engineer do. I bet there are listeners who can actually name the establishments
1:43:13
that I've worked in hospitality where they're too busy swapping rude jokes and mean jokes
1:43:18
Anyway, what's the question? I've got a question for you. So it's about magazines
1:43:23
So on the 11th of April, I subscribed to a magazine. It came through my door, the June edition
1:43:30
Yes. Why are magazines so far in front? That's a good question, isn't it
1:43:36
Why can't I have the April edition in April? In April, why doesn't it arrive at the beginning of April
1:43:40
I should know this, really, having worked in the print media. Or at least it may have come up here before, but I haven't got a clue
1:43:49
I know you don't mention what magazine you subscribe to, Geoff. Is that because it's adult
1:43:54
No, it's because it's banned on the programme, which is a motoring magazine. And you don't talk motoring
1:43:59
Ah, you got me. You dumb me. So is this technically a motoring question
1:44:03
I don't think it is, is it? No, no, no. Because it holds true. You can give me a bit of leeway, surely
1:44:08
It holds true across all magazines, all periodicals. The beginning of April, you get the May edition or even the June edition
1:44:14
No, it was a June edition. No, I know. No, it won't always be that far ahead, but it's always ahead
1:44:19
You never get the... It is. Yeah, I like it. I'll find out for you
1:44:23
Why are they so unhinged or detached from the actual calendar when you get the edition that's two months ahead of where you actually are living
1:44:31
Thank you, Geoff. Lovely answer. Lovely question. 12-11 is the time. Paul's in Chiswick. Paul, question or answer
1:44:36
It's a question, please, James. Carry on, Paul. Okay, so does putting clothes that you've worn
1:44:42
once back in the wardrobe materially affect their impact on the clean
1:44:46
clothes that are already in there? It seems unlikely, doesn't it? It seems a bit unlikely
1:44:50
but I do have a really good reason for asking this. It's not just that I was listening yesterday
1:44:54
Go on what the other reason But my wife has what she calls a shame pile Right And it the clothes that are like that that she won put back in the wardrobe but she doesn think need These are her own clothes
1:45:05
Her own clothes, yeah, yeah, sure. But she calls it a shame pile because it builds up over the course of maybe a couple of days
1:45:09
and then she'll eventually make a decision. Yeah, well, I'm interested to hear that other people suffer from this condition that I described on the programme yesterday
1:45:17
Mine is less of a shame pile, more of a... I discovered a word yesterday, Paul. It's more of a floor-drobe
1:45:23
I like it. It's not a lovely portmanteau word. But does it
1:45:27
There's less shame attached to it. And it was a genuine conundrum yesterday
1:45:32
Do you put them back in? Do you fold them up again and put them back on the shelves
1:45:36
Or do you do what Paul's wife and I do, which is leave them in an unsightly pile
1:45:41
Are you comfortable with this, Paul? Because my wife, I have to confide in you while no one else is listening
1:45:46
my wife doesn't like it at all. When I do. I've kind of got used to it
1:45:50
I sort of nudge her to sort of like... What do you do with yours? What do you do
1:45:54
Like a jumper is probably the most obvious thing because you're going to wear a jumper again. You're not going to wash a jumper every time you wear it
1:45:59
What do you do? Gaze back with the other jumpers. That's fine. I don't mind about that at all
1:46:03
So you hang it or you fold it? Cardigans get home. Jumpers get folded
1:46:08
And you do that. No, I like it. You've got a very similar wardrobe to me, I think, Paul. So, yeah, so you would..
1:46:13
That's what I'm going to have to start doing. And what would be the reason not to do it
1:46:18
Answer, because you're worried that you might put some dirty clothes on, but then check whether they're dirty before you put them back in the pile again
1:46:23
I don't think there's going to be any negative impact of putting worn, clean clothes back with the freshly laundered stuff
1:46:32
but that's the question that's on the board. That little observational description at the top of yesterday's show
1:46:38
I mentioned this to you earlier, got more reaction in my inbox
1:46:42
more texts and WhatsApps than anything we've done this week, and it's nearly over
1:46:46
It's me wanging on about my floor drobe and using it as a way into conversations about disillusionment with Keir Starmer
1:46:52
You'll have to listen back on Catch-Up to work out how on earth we managed to do that. Got more reaction than anything
1:46:58
Second only, no, in second place was the question this morning about American culture
1:47:03
12.14 is the time. Roger is in Darwin. Roger, question or answer? It's a question, James
1:47:08
Carry on. I recently had an operation called an orchidectomy. Oh. And what they do is they basically remove a testicle out of you
1:47:17
Right, that's what I thought it was. And then I want to know, because I didn't ask
1:47:23
what colour did the ball that they put back in? And I'm glad you found it funny, because I have
1:47:30
Is there, I mean, I have to ask this, is there an answer you're really hoping not to get
1:47:36
Well, I'm a Blackburn fan, so as long as it's not claret... And is there an answer that you're..
1:47:44
I mean, it's not going to be black and white stripes, is it? I don't know
1:47:48
Like a mint humbug. Yeah. Of all the questions I was asking about what routine off and everything, I forgot to ask
1:47:56
They don't show it to you in advance to, like, you know, get used to the feel of it in your hand
1:48:02
Yeah. I was hoping it was, like, glow in the dark or something or an image of LED
1:48:07
So, I mean, working on the principle, Roger, that they're all going to be the same, aren't we
1:48:12
That there's only one real option in this department. Well, apparently they all made the same sort of silicon
1:48:18
I've learned that from someone who works in the NHS, but I would love to know from a surgeon who performs this operation on the team
1:48:24
what colour that they put in. Artificial testicle. What colour is an artificial testicle
1:48:31
That's one of my favourite questions of all time. And I have a feeling you thought it might be
1:48:35
Yeah, and it's just to spread awareness, James, because I found a lump down there and I went to the doctors
1:48:40
and they decided they needed to cut it out to stop anything worse happening
1:48:45
So I'm glad I did it. It's a message to everyone to just check your vitals
1:48:49
Check your vitals. Yeah. Well, good man, actually. Great stuff. It's funny and serious at the same time
1:48:58
The perfect call to a radio station. But let's get him an answer. What colour is his ball
1:49:03
James O'Brien on LBC. It is 17 minutes after 12 and you are listening to James O'Brien on LBC
1:49:11
So, questions so far. Why do chefs in hospitality, why do you say 86, the chicken
1:49:18
when you have run out of chicken? Why do magazines purport to be from the future
1:49:25
It's not quite how Jeff phrased the question, but it's April and your magazine subscription arrives
1:49:30
and it's the June edition. Why can't it just be the April edition? What's going on there
1:49:36
Does putting worn clothes back in with the clean clothes, is there any problem with that
1:49:44
Is there a reason why so many of us find it so hard to do? It's probably just the laziness element of not wanting to fold it, isn't it
1:49:50
And what colour is Roger's artificial testicle? 03456060973. It's going to take some catching, Roger, isn't he, for the board game
1:50:02
David's in Manchester. David, question or answer? uh question please james carry on david i took my little girl to the park the other day and we
1:50:09
were blowing dandelions to tell the time dandelion clocks yeah exactly yeah and my wife said to me
1:50:15
what's that about where's that from like what's the science behind that what's the history of that
1:50:20
and i've got no idea it's just something we've always done one o'clock too so it's like i mean
1:50:25
when we were kids it was we thought that you could actually tell the time by blowing it and
1:50:31
And when you ran out of bits of spore, or whatever they're called
1:50:36
that would be the correct time. One, two, three, four. Yeah, is there any science to that
1:50:40
Is it most likely to release at one in the afternoon? I don't know
1:50:46
No, I don't know either. I like that question. It's a lovely thing to do, isn't it
1:50:49
It's a nice little sort of communing with nature, but also it's got a fun little childhood tradition to it as well
1:50:55
Practicing counting as well for a little one. Oh, gosh, of course. I forgot that
1:50:59
Those are long, dimming. My youngest turns 18 this week, David. You've got all that
1:51:06
Yes! You've got a lot of stuff to come. 19 minutes after 12 is the time
1:51:12
I like that. What's the origin of that? Where does that come from? It doesn't immediately or obviously make sense
1:51:17
A rhyme might make sense or something. One for, you know, something
1:51:20
Two for this. One for, what is it with the magpies? One for luck, two for joy or something
1:51:25
19, don't act me on that. I need my inbox and I need my phone lines. Marks in Swindon
1:51:29
Mark, question or answer? It's an answer, James. Carry on, Mark. So it's an answer to the 86 question in hospitality
1:51:38
Oh, yes. And I looked it up a while back. I've been in hospitality 25 years
1:51:47
I looked it up a while back because I was watching one of them god-awful food programmes
1:51:52
American. Oh, yeah. And Gordon Ramsay uses it quite a lot. Does he? Does he? On the telly
1:51:58
86 the chicken. I think it's a bit of a pretentious thing
1:52:03
with chefs meaning to make themselves sound a bit more important. An affectation, perhaps
1:52:09
which is why we didn't use it at the Brasserie in Kidderminster because there was no affectation
1:52:14
There was no pretentiousness there, mate, on Lower Mill Street. And there's no pretentiousness in any of my cafe bars
1:52:21
I can tell you that now. Good. So yeah it supposed to be rhyming slang for 86 me Oh Nick the chicken That very New York I think Yeah and that the point It an American thing
1:52:35
I looked it up a while back because I was trying to wonder... No, fair enough
1:52:41
Cancel the chicken is any quicker than saying 86 the chicken. I can't get my head around
1:52:46
86 the chicken. Yeah. How many cafe bars have you got? Apparently just the one
1:52:53
Oh, okay. We've had pubs various over the years. Would you like to have a free advertisement
1:53:00
Well, so it's the Great Western in Swindon. Lovely stuff. And it's actually more like a pub these days
1:53:08
It's more like it. The cafe bars were along the way. They're not 86ing anything at the Great Western in Swindon
1:53:16
Nothing is 86. If they've run out of something, they've run out of something. No, the words 86 will not pass anybody's lips
1:53:22
unless that's the total of your bill. Quite right, too, sir. Love it. Have a round of applause
1:53:30
Thank you very much. You're very welcome. I hope Maya is happy with that answer
1:53:34
So it just means nicks the chicken, as in there is none. I said it would probably rhyme with something
1:53:39
because nothing else made sense. Remember, if you're struggling to get through
1:53:43
Mark is about to vacate a phone line, which you will be able to grab by judicious use of redial
1:53:47
Helen is in Preston. Helen, question or answer? It's an answer. Carry on. I wanted to reassure the guy with a testicular prosthesis
1:53:55
that it's not Clarence Testicular prosthesis will get you Oh, I know
1:54:00
What's wrong with false ball? Well, you know, I am a professional Clearly
1:54:05
I'm clearly not Go on, what do we know? What can we tell him
1:54:10
So, they are normally kind of translucent They look a little bit like a translucent little leg Yes
1:54:16
That's what we normally put in adults in sort of children cases
1:54:20
because their scrotal skin isn't as thick. They normally can have a bit of a pink tinge colour
1:54:25
to make it look a bit, you know, normal. Yeah, a bit more real
1:54:29
But with an adult, it's kind of a clear egg. Completely clear, like a window, or does it have a sort of..
1:54:36
Well, it's kind of translucent, sometimes a little bit sort of like... Like a bouncy ball
1:54:41
Yeah. Like the kind of things you get in, like a marble, but rubbery
1:54:47
But rubbery, like silicon. That's what he said when he finished. He said, have you finished that
1:54:52
He said, oh, rubbery. That needs work. Qualifications? I'm a doctor and I'm a GP now
1:54:58
but I used to be a surgical trainee, so I have done this operation. You have witnessed it
1:55:02
You have held in your hand. I've held it in my hand. That is about as high a qualification as we can hope for
1:55:08
Thank you. Lovely work. Thank you. No, thank you. There you go, Roger
1:55:12
Relax. It's not Claret. Don is in Barnet. Don, question or answer
1:55:18
It's actually John, but Don will do for now. Oh. How did you know I was talking to you
1:55:24
It could have been a John on another line. Was it the Barnet? I don't know
1:55:29
Well, I was. They wrote Don on the screen, but it could have been a John on the other line
1:55:34
and you'd have been talking to nobody. It could have John in Barnet and a Don in Barnet on the same screen
1:55:38
It could happen. True. Fair enough. But it didn't. Go on, question or answer
1:55:43
No, okay. Question. As a human race, when and how and what made us start laughing
1:55:51
What was the first thing that made us as a human race begin to laugh
1:55:55
Was it a tickle? How are we going to know that? Well, that's what I'm asking
1:56:00
That's why I'm ringing in. Well, no, I mean... I'm asking. That's why I'm asking
1:56:07
It's a mystery hour, isn't it? Well, it is a mystery hour, but it's not like miracle hour
1:56:11
What do you mean? We just go back to the first time someone started laughing and work out what they laughed at
1:56:15
Well, I don't know. There was research done as to what makes us laugh
1:56:20
And I don't know. No? Well, I'm trying to think of a question that might get an answer
1:56:27
Because, I mean, in a way, it's always like, what was the first joke? What was the first joke
1:56:35
You've probably heard it on this program. Yeah. So, I think other animals laugh
1:56:42
Other mammals laugh, I think. Do they, though? I think they do. Do they, though
1:56:46
I think they do. Yeah, but how do we know that? They're not amused
1:56:50
And if we know how they know that, if we know how they know..
1:56:54
I know what you mean. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, I do. Don't worry. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, they know to do that
1:56:57
To do that, don't they? They do, though. They do do that. Don't be done. I will try and find out for you
1:57:04
I mean, it's the question, why do we laugh? No, what made us laugh in the first place
1:57:11
It's like you say that animals laugh. so how do we know they laugh
1:57:15
and what is it, what's the research or the evidence that we know that
1:57:19
animals laugh, I mean does my cat laugh was it a tickle was it a tickle, we're never going to get
1:57:25
was it a tickle, what are you on about I mean, someone slipped over
1:57:30
probably, I don't know, could you imagine being there the first time someone laughed like you walked into the cave wall or something
1:57:35
like that and everybody else took and then they said everyone was wondering what this funny noise
1:57:41
was coming out there Yeah. Yeah. I'll see what I can do
1:57:47
Well done. Thank you. No, thank you. What was the first laugh
1:57:53
I don't even know. I've lost it again now. I just had it. I had the question. It was there
1:57:56
I was holding it in my hand like a prosthesis. What was it
1:58:02
Testicle. What did we love to... Oh, Fraser's in Glasgow. Fraser, question or answer
1:58:08
That's a good question, please, James. Carry on. when a footballer takes a corner kick yeah
1:58:15
they always raise their arm before they take a kick yeah why do they do that
1:58:20
they're telling the other lads or lasses which kick they're going to take
1:58:25
because they're not just holding their hand up in the air there will be a language of fingers
1:58:30
well you would think so but they all do it it's not just occasionally
1:58:34
no but they've got a choice of corners so in training you practice say four corners
1:58:39
and then you hold your arm up to tell them which one you're going to take
1:58:45
What do you mean, hmm? It's obviously the correct answer. I don't think so
1:58:53
Back post, back post, near post. We're not live on TikTok. I'm doing this live
1:59:06
I don't think that's the answer. Well, I mean, I'm loath to leave it on the board
1:59:10
because I'm so obviously right. But I will because I'm a very modest man
1:59:14
Okay, thank you. No, you're welcome. Why do corner kick takers put their arm in the air
1:59:20
before they take a corner? Okay? Thank you, Fraser. If you can answer that, give me the call
1:59:27
03456060973. Oh, no. Really? We've got a steward's inquiry on the 86
1:59:34
which I'm 99% confident was actually the correct answer. Hang on a minute
1:59:40
Dan's in Gravesend and Steve's in Derby. All right, lads. Yeah, all right
1:59:45
Hello there. Dan, you go first. What's your answer to this question? So I've heard two stories
1:59:50
but the one that I am kind of more akin to is that there is a story
1:59:54
and they're all kind of, there's no factual answer, but they're all stories as to why it makes sense
2:00:00
A story that I've heard is that in a weird tale, someone flew out or someone fell out of a window on the 86th floor
2:00:09
So it's gone, he's gone. Yeah. But when it comes back in on shift, if it does come back in shift
2:00:15
the same story says that a gust of wind blew that same gentleman on the 68th floor
2:00:21
So it comes back in when he came back in. So 86th, he's gone
2:00:26
Gust of wind blew him back in. 68th, he's back in. Qualifications
2:00:33
So I've been chefing for a fair few years, both in the likes of
2:00:38
I was asked what restaurants but I'm not sure if I'm allowed to... Yeah, you are
2:00:42
So Harvesters and TGI Fridays and... And where were you when you first heard this, do you think
2:00:48
Which one were you in when you first heard this? I was in the American industry of TGI Fridays
2:00:54
Okay, stay there. Steve's in Derby. Steve, why did you pick up the phone
2:01:00
Well, I've got to agree with the guy that's on, because I used to work for TGI Fridays 25 years ago
2:01:05
and that's exactly the same story that I was told and learned
2:01:09
So, yes, it's unbelievable. I'm not sure there's any factual evidence. I think someone in the training department at TGI Fridays made this up
2:01:17
Well, probably. I'm thinking they might have done, actually, really. What branch were you in, Steve
2:01:21
I worked in Nottingham and Sutton Coalfield. Dan? So, Southeastern, you know, Bill Water and the likes
2:01:29
This is nonsense, gents. If someone fell out of a window, so they named Chicken after him
2:01:39
No, no, it's not Chicken. No, anything else. He fell out of a window
2:01:43
so they suddenly said, when we've run out of something, let's all say 86 in the future
2:01:48
Yeah, and then when it blew him back in. What do you mean, yeah? It blew back in on the 68th floor
2:01:54
That's it. No, I've also had a more bleaker story where a coffin is apparently as standard size as 8x6
2:02:05
or along the lines of that, and it's dead. But that's the less fun version. Okay, I'm sticking with Nix
2:02:11
86 Nix. Yeah, but do you mean no, like I'm stupid? You think someone fell out of the 86th floor
2:02:16
and blew back in on the 68th floor, and somehow the whole world of catering decided
2:02:21
that henceforth when they ran out of something, they'd say 86, and when it was restored, they'd say 68
2:02:25
It makes no sense at all. If one of you had rung in with this, you wouldn't have gone
2:02:29
because I'd have thought you were mad. But there's two of you. Surely there's got to be a question
2:02:35
If it's 86 Nix is a Cockney slang, but it's an Americanism
2:02:39
How does that make sense? There's rhyming slangs not confined to the Cockneys. Yeah, but I don't think anyone else..
2:02:44
Yeah, there's New York rhyming slang. It's a well-known thing. Yeah, but is it a barbershop quartet
2:02:49
Is it for the Americans? A Nix, a 6, an 86? And who fell out of the window then
2:02:54
What's the rhyming slang for 68, then? Is it no one's coming from? Who fell out the window
2:02:59
It was a gentleman. He was very light, though. It was just a wind that blew him back in
2:03:06
He wasn't very heavy. How have two people rung in with the same insane answer to the question
2:03:13
It's going to turn out to be true now, isn't it? I know it's going to turn out to be true
2:03:18
Surely, I think it needs a VAR on that. A VAR on that
2:03:22
It blew back out again. I'm going to give you both a round of applause, but frankly I'm not sure either of you deserve it
2:03:29
That's great stuff. 12.31 is the time. Matt Hewitt's got your headlines. James O'Brien on LBC
2:03:35
12.35 is the time. How many buildings even have 86 floors? A lot of you are wondering
2:03:40
Seems to me something I should have been wondering five minutes ago. Ten minutes ago
2:03:45
this Blue Skyer, who goes under the name Daddy Needs Coffee, contacted the programme with reference to Helen
2:03:53
who he describes as the testicle doctor lady. But we all know what he's talking about
2:03:57
And he writes, Can you ask that testicle doctor lady if you can get a prosthetic gonad with a squeaker in it like a dog's toy
2:04:04
I said to Keith during the break, Do you think we're all right? And to Illinois, is it all right if we read this one out
2:04:08
That sounds, that's not too fruity, is it? And Keith said, Why would you want one? And then there was a pause
2:04:13
And he said, Oh, yeah, you could use it like a bicycle bell to get people out the way when you're walking down the pavement
2:04:22
James is in Hackbridge. James, question or answer? Hi, James, it's an answer for you
2:04:27
Carry on, mate. I mean, I'm only just going to corroborate what you said earlier
2:04:31
Oh, it's the football question. The football question, yeah. So, basically, it's players giving signals to their teammates
2:04:38
so that they know exactly where they're going to put the ball so that they can go and attack it
2:04:41
I think Fraser probably is feeling a bit foolish now, don't you
2:04:45
Because once it's out, because it's often like this with questions, is that you can't work out what the answer is
2:04:49
and as soon as you hear it, you sort of slap your forehead, you know, and go, oh, of course it is
2:04:54
It must be. What else could it possibly be? Just waving at his mum in the crowd
2:04:58
Qualifications? I've worked in non-league football for about 15 years and been going for matches since I was four as well
2:05:04
so I'm quite well versed, I think. That'll do. Round of applause for James. Thank you
2:05:10
Lovely stuff. And up with non-league football. 12.30, and come on, Kitty, in the playoffs
2:05:15
12.36 is the time. Jason is in Guildford. Jason, question or answer
2:05:19
Answer, James. haven't you got work to do i'm in i'm in kilford on a story are you on a job this is jason farrell
2:05:28
of sky news i recognize his voice immediately because we were out together on friday night
2:05:32
go on there what's the answer that was a good concert it was an amazing concert yeah i've got
2:05:37
news by the way i'll tell you when i see you okay um so the answer is on the magazine story that
2:05:43
this they they put them out early because they work out their circulation and readership figures
2:05:48
from Parson. So how many people then read, not just the person who subscribes to the magazine
2:05:53
but then how many people read it afterwards. And that can take sort of several weeks
2:05:57
or it can sit in a, you know, your dentist's office or whatever
2:06:03
So in order to increase it, it makes it feel more relevant if five weeks down the line
2:06:08
you get the magazine from your mate and it's still in date. Is that the reason
2:06:12
Well, that's what I was told. I used to work for Ski Magazine and used to bring out our December edition in October
2:06:18
I mean it also means that people booking their holidays and stuff like that and they seeing where they going and they reading about it and sometimes they trying to get ahead of the season But a lot of it down to it still feeling relevant
2:06:32
It's up to date for longer. It actually makes perfect sense, doesn't it
2:06:37
Yeah, I think so. So even if it's Roger's, was it, no, Jeff's motoring magazine
2:06:41
and someone picks it up a couple of weeks after it's arrived
2:06:45
they're not going to put it back down again because it's out of date. Yeah, where Jeff feels like he's, you know, he's ahead of the car
2:06:52
Ahead of the car. Love it. Qualifications? No idea. I used to work for a ski magazine
2:06:58
Which ski magazine? It was called Ski and Board for the Ski Club of Great Britain
2:07:03
I had no idea. This was before you scaled the dizzy heights of Sky News
2:07:07
Before I even did a journalism course, yeah. Exactly. So you're suggesting that you did not need a journalism qualification
2:07:13
to work for Ski and Board magazine. I used to know stuff about skiing
2:07:17
That was enough. Round of applause for Jason Farrell. Now, can I ask what story you're on, or is it top secret
2:07:26
Are you undercover? He's undercover. I can't tell you, actually. Quite right, too
2:07:31
There you go. Proper journalism. I've never done any of that in my life. 12.39 is the time
2:07:36
Ben's in Hastings. Ben, question or answer? It's a question. Carry on, Ben
2:07:40
Hello. I live in Hastings, obviously, and famously on Bexhill's seafront, there is, when the
2:07:47
tide goes back, there are dinosaur footprints, there's about four or five
2:07:50
dinosaur footprints, you can quite obviously see they are footprints and it's famously known that that is
2:07:55
what they are and my son, we were walking down there and we were looking at them
2:07:59
at the weekend and then my son said to me how come
2:08:02
where are the rest of them? He's obviously walked in and he's walked away
2:08:06
but there's just these five sitting here but there's no other footprints anywhere else, but these tracks
2:08:11
coming in or these tracks coming out, why are they stayed there and stored and none of the others
2:08:15
That's a good question from the boy. Yeah, I thought so. I was quite proud of you
2:08:19
It's going to be... I mean, is it going to be clay? So they were walking on sand and then there was a bit of clay
2:08:25
and then they walked on sand again? Well, I hope not, because that makes me look silly now, doesn't it
2:08:30
Well, it doesn't. I'm thinking out loud. I might have said something silly already, but it's..
2:08:34
I mean, so where are... I mean, there's five distinct footprints in the..
2:08:40
What is it? I mean, it must be... So it's stone, is it? No, it is..
2:08:44
You are a little bit right. You walk out in the sand, all quite sandy when the shore goes back
2:08:49
Yeah. And then it's all a bit rocky and a bit... Yeah. Possibly a bit, yeah
2:08:53
It's not clay. It's very hot. It's obviously... It's like stone. You couldn't... But it was clay once, probably
2:08:59
Yes, potentially so. Yeah, I suppose. Probably the answer. No, it probably is, or it may be
2:09:03
but it's still, I mean, an interesting discovery. So we'll wait for someone to go definitive
2:09:08
Unless I answer it now and say it is clay and then I get a round of applause. It doesn't work like that, Ben
2:09:12
No, no, no. Absolutely not. What's your boy's name? Should we give him a shout for when he listens to this later
2:09:17
Yeah, Leo. All right, Leo. Great question, mate. Keep asking questions, even if it gets on your dad's nerves
2:09:22
Always, always ask questions. It's the most important thing a human being can do
2:09:26
Nice one, Ben. Take care, Leo. Stephen is in charge. Stephen, question or answer
2:09:31
It's a question. Carry on. To paraphrase Salt-N-Pepa, let's talk about sweat, JB
2:09:36
Baby, J-O-B. Carry on, then. When you sweat, as far as I'm aware, the actual system of cooling you down is not the moisture coming out of your skin, it's the process of it evaporating from your skin. Yeah
2:09:50
So when you exercise, are you better off constantly wiping away the sweat to allow more moisture to come out and evaporate, or to let the natural process take over and just allow it to evaporate, which cools you down better
2:10:04
That's a good question, actually. It's quite technical, really, isn't it? So, I mean, if you're running a marathon or something like that
2:10:10
it could be quite helpful. Well, to a certain extent, if you're out on a bike and you're moving quite quickly
2:10:14
then, you know, the moisture doesn't build up. It evaporates very quickly
2:10:18
And as soon as you slow down and go uphill, you notice it quite quickly
2:10:22
You heat up and the moisture... Yeah, if you want to cool down, if you want to maximise the cooling process
2:10:27
do you wipe sweat off or do you leave it on your skin? Yes. That's a really good question, mate
2:10:32
I love that. Thank you very much. You've troubled me for years. Has it really? I've had the opportunity to ring you, yeah
2:10:37
Yeah. Yeah, I like it. Let's hope you get your answer after that build-up
2:10:42
What is the best thing to do for maximum cooling efficiency? To wipe the sweat away as you exercise or to let the sweat drip
2:10:49
Let it drip. 12.42 is the time. Eddie's in Manchester. Eddie, question or answer
2:10:54
Question, please. Carry on. When I'm washing up and wiping the sides down
2:11:02
why is it seems that a disc cloth is more absorbent when it's wet than when it's dry
2:11:11
How often do you wash up? It depends who you ask. If you ask my wife, it might be a bit less than I do
2:11:20
Well, two, three times a week. Okay, no, that's all right. It's a numbers game
2:11:28
It's not when you're drying the dishes that it's more absorbent. You mean when you're wiping down the tops
2:11:33
Yeah, like these microfibre... Yeah, but it's not absorbent, is it? Because you're not drying the tops
2:11:39
It's just, it's better at cleaning the tops because it's wet. Because the..
2:11:42
I, well, if it's wet, you spill something, I find that it absorbs or takes away more moisture or wetness
2:11:52
than if it's just dry. I think so. I mean, it doesn't work that way with a towel
2:11:58
when you have a shower, I don't think. No, it doesn't. But you think these microfibre cloths
2:12:02
there's a level of dampness. They're more effective than the moist. The damp towel, the moist towel
2:12:10
is a more effective dryer-upper than a bone-dry towel. I think so
2:12:15
That's not impossible. But I just don't... We don't use microfibres. I've got a sponge
2:12:23
A sponge? A sponge, yeah. Must be a southern thing, I think
2:12:28
What? A sponge? A southern... To wipe the surface, the side. No, I do the... what do I do the surface with? I'd use a tea towel for the surface
2:12:38
But then if it's... if it's all dry, then I'll get... Oh I got a normal dishcloth So you do the dishcloth on the on the like a normal one like um It ropey isn it It not microfibre You know like your mum dishcloth No to be fair we do use a sponge for the actual washing of the dishes
2:12:55
Yeah, that's what I meant. That's what I meant. So if I want something wet out of the sink, I've either got the dishcloth or the sponge
2:13:01
and then I'll do the top, I'll do the surface, and then I'll use the tea towel to dry it off afterwards
2:13:05
But I like this. So it's the micro... It's specific about microfibre, your question. Yeah, I clean it or dry it-ish, but then let it naturally dry, like
2:13:14
I like it, yeah. Is it? Is it where it's got an increased surface out? Well, someone will know the answer to this, I hope
2:13:19
and it may be that we're both bonkers and that it doesn't do a better job at all, but a bone-dry microfibre is a less effective dryer-upper than a moist microfibre
2:13:29
Why? 03456060973. It's 12.45. James O'Brien on LBC. This always happens when I forget to do the guarantee, doesn't it
2:13:39
The funniest mystery has always happened when I forget to say at the top that there is a guaranteed laugh-out-loud moment
2:13:44
at some point in the next 55 minutes. If you haven't had a laugh-out-loud moment in the last 55 minutes
2:13:50
then God knows what you've been, or the last 45 minutes, goodness knows what you've been listening to
2:13:55
but it can't possibly be this show. Questions that still need answers
2:14:00
I don't think Paul was expecting an answer necessarily, but I would love to know if there is one
2:14:06
When you put clothes that have already been worn but aren't yet ready for the wash
2:14:10
back in the cupboard or back in the wardrobe, is there any deleterious or negative effect
2:14:17
Where does the dandelion clock come from? Blowing the dandelion clock, the spores off it
2:14:22
like 1 o'clock, 2 o'clock, 3 o'clock, where did that come from? John's question about laughter
2:14:27
which is quite hard to articulate, but he sort of wants to know why we laughed the first time we laughed
2:14:34
And his question was, did someone get tickled? There is a question in there somewhere
2:14:40
I have failed in my attempts to clarify it. But if you can answer it anyway, then crack on
2:14:44
We've done the football question. The footprints question at Hastings Beach. There are only five footprints
2:14:51
Dinosaur. Dinosaur. What was it? Bexhill Beach near Hastings. Five dinosaur footprints
2:14:58
Just how did that happen? I think we know, but can someone confirm it
2:15:02
Ideally, a geologist. and when you are exercising, if you want to minimise the cooling effects
2:15:10
should you leave the sweat on your brow, or should you wipe it off, or indeed any other part of your body
2:15:15
and why do damp microfibre towels appear to be more absorbent than bone-dry ones
2:15:24
We're all there now. Jonathan's in Chester. Jonathan, question or answer? It's an answer, James, to the sweating question
2:15:31
Carry on. I thought the question was if you want to maximise the cooling
2:15:35
so I'll answer that way round, and the opposite is true the other way. So the answer is to leave the sweat on your body
2:15:41
because the cooling effect of sweating comes from the evaporation of the sweat
2:15:47
So the more sweat you've got, the more evaporation there's going to be? Well, the heat to evaporate comes from your body
2:15:53
Your body is giving up heat and therefore reducing in temperature. And this is why, when it's humid, even though it's the same temperature
2:16:00
When it's humid, it's much more difficult for that sweat to evaporate because the air is already holding a lot of moisture
2:16:06
So it's much more difficult for sweating to cool you down the more humid it gets
2:16:10
So if it's humid, should you wipe the sweat off? That's up to you whether you wipe it off or not
2:16:16
The sweat is going to drip off you and accumulate on you. So this is why, you know, if you're exercising and it's humid
2:16:21
your clothes will become soaking wet and you become covered in sweat. But you're not getting the cooling effect because the sweat is not evaporating
2:16:28
I see, but in normal circumstances where the sweat would evaporate, you shouldn't wipe it off if you want to maximise the cooling effect
2:16:34
If you want to maximise your cooling, don't wipe it off. Great answer. Qualifications
2:16:39
I'm a chemical engineer, and evaporative cooling is a kind of fundamental principle in that
2:16:43
That's a sensational answer. So people think I exaggerate sometimes when I talk about the quality of qualifications
2:16:48
that some people bring to mystery, but you've just said, ya boo sucks to them, Jonathan
2:16:53
Thank you for it. Lovely stuff. There you go. Great answer. Really good answer
2:17:00
Bill's in Maidenhead. Bill, question or answer? James, can you hear me
2:17:04
Loud and clear. All right, mate. I'm calling about the 86 question
2:17:08
and I couldn't figure out whether or not it was answered properly. Well, it's a very good point, nor could I
2:17:14
So I can answer it. You reckon? That's fighting talk. I reckon I can answer it, yeah, from experience
2:17:21
Have you ever fallen out of a building? Stop. Okay, it comes from America
2:17:27
And it comes from the desire to control the level of alcohol intake when people were making their own alcohol out in the woods
2:17:36
You know, the moonshine and all that kind of stuff. Yeah. And it was totally out of control in the 19th century
2:17:43
And there was no regulation, none of that. And so it became known that the level of alcohol in whiskey would be the damager of one's attitude, behavior, health, etc
2:17:58
Yes, yes. And so the desire was to control the level of alcohol that was legal to produce in legal whiskey, not the moonshine illegally in the woods
2:18:09
Okay. Although it applied to that as well because all of it then got regulated
2:18:13
And the number and proof, if you will recall, is double the alcohol content of whiskey
2:18:22
Ah, so double 4386. Exactly. So 86 is 43% alcohol, okay? Yeah
2:18:31
And somehow the number, and they were using this proof idea somehow, I don't know how
2:18:37
and somehow it then got agreed that the number we're going to settle on is 86
2:18:43
So you could not make whiskey above... But why did that then become..
2:18:48
...most 8% alcohol? Why did that become shorthand for things you've run out of in the kitchen
2:18:55
Any bottle of whiskey that was legally produced, and of course whiskey is produced under law
2:19:00
Yeah. I think you've answered a different question. You've answered a different question
2:19:07
I just explaining how the word 86 goes Oh sorry And then it became an expression Oh And so when you 86 Yeah Okay Yeah
2:19:18
I mean, we used to play jokes with this when we were in bars
2:19:21
as college kids. Right. And somebody got over the top. We'd tell the bartender to 86'd
2:19:28
him. To chuck him out? No, just to cut him down. Okay. Turn him off or cut him
2:19:34
down or, and there wasn't anything legal that was over 86'd crew
2:19:37
wind him in. Qualifications, Bill. What are your qualifications? I'm just an ex-university
2:19:43
student from America. I'm 83 years old, living in England, 45 years. Have you ever worked in TGI Friday
2:19:51
No, I have not. I listen to you. I have no time. That's all the education
2:19:57
you need. Have a round of applause on me, Bill. That's a lovely answer. I think
2:20:01
there's a million. I mean, who knows? But I like that one. It's better than the other one
2:20:05
But arguably not necessarily as good as the first one. Matthew's in
2:20:09
Southampton. Matthew, question or answer? It's actually a steward's inquiry. Oh, for God's sake. Everyone's at it
2:20:15
this week. What do you want to whine about then? It's on the publishing
2:20:19
question. You can't argue with Jason Farrell. He works for Sky News. Well, the answer is a lot simpler
2:20:25
Go on. So the magazines can stay on the newsstand a lot longer. Until
2:20:29
the next one arrives. Yeah. So it originates back from comics in the States
2:20:34
Oh. Back in like 1930s. because they were refused quarterly and they might keep them on themselves longer
2:20:41
they would actually put the next quarter on the date so it would stay on the newsstand
2:20:45
Ah, yeah. So it's a variation on Jason's answer or an improvement on Jason's answer
2:20:51
It is about extending the life, if you like, not just the shelf life
2:20:55
but the reading life of the magazine in a way. But originally the shelf life
2:21:00
Qualifications? I used to work in a comic shop. Really? I bet that was fun
2:21:05
Oh, yes. Best job ever. I can imagine. Have a round of applause, Matthew
2:21:10
Thank you. 12.55 is the time. Tiago is in Bristol. Tiago, question or answer
2:21:16
Oh, hi, James. I think I have an answer. Carry on. It's regarding the microfiber cloth
2:21:20
Yes. So, in principle, the dry cloth will always win. Ah. Because microfiber is designed in a way that you have, you know, the split fibers
2:21:30
and those tiny fibers, it is what do the so-called capillary action. Yes
2:21:35
Which seems to draw, you know, the moisture in. Yes. Now, what trips people off is sensation overall
2:21:44
And one thing that a lot of people oversee is that they often wash their cloths with the normal washing
2:21:52
Yeah. And if you use fabric softener, that creates a very thin layer of silicone on the fabric
2:21:58
Oh, really? So when you get a fresh cloth that's just been washed
2:22:02
the absorption rate might be affected by the silicone. And it's not until you rinse it
2:22:08
perhaps we're washing up liquid, that it breaks that barrier and then it goes into kind of full absorption mode
2:22:15
Wow. That makes perfect sense. Thank you. Well, I mean, but would you put fabric softener in the washer
2:22:24
You wouldn't use fabric softener, would you, if you were washing your dishcloth
2:22:28
You just chuck them. Ideally, no. I get quite triggered by the smell and the sensation of it
2:22:35
so I don't use it. Oh, okay. I avoid sporadically very kind of baby-save ones
2:22:39
but towels, for example. We sabotage ourselves all the time by washing our towels
2:22:43
We want the fluffy, but the fluffy doesn't dry. What drives you is a kind of hardened, dry towel
2:22:49
that will absorb the moisture. Fluffy if you've used fabrics often. The best thing to do if you want a fluffy towel
2:22:54
is to put a tennis ball in your tumble dryer. Oh, yeah, I heard about those things
2:22:59
I've never tried them. It's true. I've tried it. I've done it. It makes sense
2:23:03
It beats the fiber open. Yeah, it kind of rubs it, agitates it
2:23:07
It's a nice one. Qualifications? I have just a very curious mind, James
2:23:11
You and me both. I had the same questions before, and I was like, why, how? Yes
2:23:15
And I just looked it up and did my test. Here we are. Another round of applause for Tiago
2:23:20
Lovely work. Thank you, James. Thank you. For the avoidance of doubt, you are allowed to look things up in the past
2:23:24
You just can't look things up on the day of Mystery Hour. That's the only rule, because otherwise we'd never know anything, would we
2:23:29
If you're never allowed to look things... You can't ring me if you've ever looked it up. That would be a silly rule
2:23:34
I don't know if you were listening yesterday how close I came to asking someone if they had a phone
2:23:38
while they were on the phone to me. That was... I was devilishly close
2:23:43
Eva is in Boreham Wood. Eva, question or answer? Answer, James. Carry on, Eva
2:23:48
The laughter is first recorded about 4,000 years ago in the Bible
2:23:53
Abraham's wife Sarah she called her son Isaac because she laughed that she was going to have a child because she was 90 years old
2:24:02
what does Isaac mean? Isaac means laughter it does mean laughter so he was called Isaac as a
2:24:09
response to the shock I like that, I mean that is probably enough
2:24:13
of an answer for for John but I think I suspect that the late great Desmond
2:24:19
Morris who passed away this week would probably be able to go back further than 4,000
2:24:23
years in pursuit of laughter, possibly up to and including grey tapes. Qualifications
2:24:28
I'm a rabbi's wife. I've been teaching community nearly 30 years. Love it. And a big round of
2:24:33
applause for Eva, please. Oh, thank you. And brought us in almost
2:24:37
bang on time, Eva. And sadly, not quite enough to win the board game, because
2:24:41
I think that Roger, the happy beneficiary of the orchidectomy, and of course, as his contribution included
2:24:50
a reminder to all men listening to check for lumps. But that was..
2:24:56
Check for lumps. I'm not describing how Sheila Fogarty takes her tea. Check for lumps
2:25:02
I'm extremely fussy about my tea. Indeed you are. What a wonderful mystery how that was
2:25:08
If you missed any of today's show, you can listen back on our free Global Player app
2:25:11
or the LBC app, where you can also stay up to date with all the latest news, videos
2:25:15
and opinion. You can listen to a range of podcasts including James O'Brien Daily, the best bits
2:25:20
from this show every day. Download the official LBC app for free
2:25:23
from your app straw now. Tom Swarbrick coming up at four. But now on LBC, it's time for Sheila Foges
2:25:29
I didn't wonder where you were going with that. I'm not going to lie to you. You're giving me a bit of a fright. James O'Brien on LBC
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