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Marina Perkis is a political commentator, co-hosts the podcast The Trawl, which is available on Global Player
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And Marina joins me now. Your view or your comments on Mr Lineker's comments. Marina, morning
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Morning, Nick. I've got to say, just listening to that conversation between you and Oliver, it was done in such poor faith
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I cannot believe that the two of you discussing the fact that he is doing this because he likes to stir trouble
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and not because, like so many of us, we cannot bear to stand by and keep watching this happen
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Why are we talking about an emoji, which I truly believe he did not know what he was doing
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Like so many would not have known that, right? Just let me finish, Nick. He cannot bear the fact that just in the last couple of days
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57 Palestinian children, Nick, are dying of malnutrition because they are being starved
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we have to we have to stop having this conversation where people who want to speak out are going to be
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so scared to put a foot wrong and be labeled an anti-semite when that is not what this is this is
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about people standing up for humanity nick okay a couple of things firstly you refer that he didn know about the trope of the rat In 2023 you remember Mr Lineker faced calls to be sacked when he claimed the Conservative government migration policy
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used, and I quote, language that is not dissimilar to that used by Germany in
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the 30s. Well, that language and that logo, that trope, was alive in the 30s
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So let me ask the question then, Nick. Do you genuinely think, do you genuinely, in your heart
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think that that Gary Lineker posted that, seeing a rat and thinking
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I am going to send a subtle message out that I am anti-Semitic
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No, he's not. I've had the pleasure of meeting him. He's not anti-Semitic. So why are we having that conversation
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And why are we not talking about Gary Lineker's right to free speech? Nick, do you believe in free speech
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Well, respectfully, sitting where I've done and having been a journalist for 50 something
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no, sorry, 45 years, what do you think? OK, so he... And being the son of a journalist
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right so exactly right so when you are a sports pundit nick you don't you do not forego your right
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to free speech yes he is paid by the bbc he's made he's made so clear time and time again
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that his views are his own and he while he a sports pundit he is also a public figure he a citizen He is a human being that is seeing this genocide live streamed to us daily Nick and he using his
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platform to speak out. Marina, he's also, of course, been warned about impartiality or staying
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impartial by his employer, which is the state broadcaster that you and I have to fund
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Okay. Okay. So if he were to come out and say something about Putin being a monster for bombing
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hospitals, would it ruffle the same feathers or does it just become a question of impartiality
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when it is Palestine? I would think they're rather nervous with the comments about Donald Trump in
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that he says America is now led by people who look like Bond villains. I wouldn't imagine that's
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gone down particularly well with BBC bosses. Can we go back to the point, Nick? Let's not go on
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off on a tangent here, right? No, Marina, you took me to Ukraine. You've decided to take me away
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and I accept that. So I'm now going to take you to his comments on the United States. I think
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That's fair, Marina. Bond villains. Nick, why are you trivialising this discussion
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I'm not trivialising. That was his words, not mine. Are they behaving like Bond villains over in the US
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Is the richest man taking away food? No, sorry, you're missing the point. And the poorest children
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Yes. He meant to stay impartial My point I making is There are some things Nick that you cannot be impartial about And one day we will look back and i don know if you going to be here or i going to be here we going to look back at this genocide and people might remember this conversation on lbc
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this morning and say how deeply pathetic that while a genocide was going on we were debating
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whether a sports pundit should be allowed to talk about it if we strip away the speech of people with
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platform to speak about stuff like this then who is going to stand up for people who are suffering
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even though he doesn't seem particularly good with his studies of history it only suits when
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it suits him so only people who know every single intricacy can speak out what you're doing then
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you can't cite you can't use the germany in the 60s only for the part you want can you
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are you telling me now every i would ask all your listeners right now no i'm going to ask all your
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listeners now if every single person would have known that about that emoji well i think the point
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you have to take there is that he's happy to cite it in 2023 as regards the conservative government
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but he conveniently forgets uh this earlier this week with that uh post that he moved on marina i've
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enjoyed our conversation you look after yourself marina perkins is a political commentator check out the trawl the podcast the trawl you'll find it on global player
