Up next in 10
Ukraine's ousted Defence Minister Mykhailo Fedorov called for wartime elections in a bombshell address on Tuesday, arguing the nation faced a crisis of governance, in the biggest internal challenge to President Volodymyr Zelenskyy since Russia's invasion.
Ali poses the question to his audience: Should Zelenskyy call an election?
00:00 | Ali gives some background to the situation as he talks about political corruption and reads out some caller texts.
00:57 | Ali reads out some caller texts from Ben and Veronica.
01:45 | Alex in High Wycombe thinks an election would pose a safety risk to the Ukrainian public.
05:05 | Eleanor is a Ukrainian caller living in the UK.
08:46 | Martin in Barnsley thinks the war will carry on no matter what happens with an election.
13:00 | Nick in Ilford thinks Ali's off in his opinions on the topic and explains why...
17:47 | John's in Kyiv and doesn't think now is the right time for an election.
26:06 | Andrea in East London has some opinions which Ali finds 'provocative'.
Listen to the full show on the all-new LBC App: https://app.af.lbc.co.uk/btnc/thenewlbcapp
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0:00
Why are we asking this question, you may be thinking
0:02
Well, I'll tell you why. Because Mikhail Fedorov, a former defence minister
0:05
who was summarily sacked last month, has said that there is a systematic, or systemic I should say
0:10
crisis of governance in the country. The old system lives by its own rules too often, he said
0:16
It protects itself. It is scared of change. Well, I'll tell you one change that it might be scared of
0:21
is there's a massive amount of corruption going on there. And anyone deluded enough to think it's not happening
0:26
come on, wake up and smell the coffee. It's a notoriously corrupt place. You've had now Yevani Kamara also, he's now been appointed as a new defence minister
0:37
But in that same week when that happened, you also saw that one of Zelensky's key allies again fired
0:46
who is Deputy Presidential Head of the, well, Deputy Presidential Administration Head Irina Mudra
0:51
What is going on? Should President Zelensky call a general election? Ben says this
0:56
Ali, how can Ukraine hold free and fair elections when Russia occupies vast territories within Ukraine
1:01
Essentially, that would mean Putin determines who can vote. Madness, says Ben in Brighton
1:06
Interesting point. And Veronica says, absolutely absurd discussion. Russia is infamous for election interference
1:12
And an election is not only unconstitutional, but would also sow division in a country fighting an existential war
1:18
Sincerely, a Ukrainian. Veronica, interesting point. Well, Russia could be interfering in all sorts of elections, including in the UK
1:23
Are you suggesting we never have an election in the UK? I understand your point about an existential fight
1:28
but you could argue if some people think that President Zelensky's going down the wrong track
1:33
or he could be on a better track, we can't be waiting indefinitely. Well, not me, I'm not going to be voting
1:39
but people in Ukraine can't be waiting indefinitely, can they? Or maybe they can
1:43
Thank you, Veronica. Do pick up the phone. Alex, a first-time caller in. Hi, Wickham. Alex, welcome
1:48
Hi, Ali. Very good to speak to you. Likewise. Go ahead, sir. Well, I rang originally because I felt that
1:54
the sort of comparisons you were drawing between countries that did have elections in wartime and those that didn't
2:00
was a bit disingenuous because you used the US and Australia as examples
2:05
and obviously they are rather a long way from the front line
2:09
to put it mildly. I appreciate Pearl Harbor and the US and so on, but for the most part they're out of range of missiles
2:14
and out of range of invasion. Whereas the UK didn't have elections, much like Ukraine
2:18
because the UK was under bombardment And obviously Ukraine, part of its country, has been invaded and is under occupation by the Russians
2:28
And I had two points with that. The first point would be, and they both relate to the practicality of holding elections
2:35
The first one would be, how on earth would Zelensky protect people going to voting, polling booths to vote
2:42
And he was talking about millions of people here being then exposed to direct Russian bombardment
2:46
I think it plays directly into Putin's hands. and it's far more likely that calls for an election
2:51
are put forward by, I'm not suggesting for you, but within Ukraine by stooges for Putin
2:57
because it just gives him direct... Is Fedorov a stooge of Putin
3:02
Well, anybody who's proposing elections in Ukraine from within Ukraine is willingly sending their own population
3:09
like lambs to the slaughter. But I thought he was really popular only in the last month
3:13
since he got sacked. I mean, what's happened? well i think i think he's popular in terms of reinstatement and you made that point yeah
3:21
much more popular in terms of in terms of inviting people out into the open air to be
3:26
to be shelled and you had a chap on before who made some good points about you know
3:31
to get the ukrainian diaspora not be able to vote and so on yes what what about the people at the
3:35
front line so does you know you've got you've got at least a million ukrainian men committed to the
3:41
front line plus all of that infrastructure of logistics and support how are you going to rotate
3:45
them out or postal voting i mean it just i just don't i just don't see it worse i think the risk
3:51
vastly outweighs any but any potential tangible benefits and i haven't heard any tangible benefits
3:57
either how do you think it's going generally uh for president zelensky because we know that he's
4:02
got uh corruption issues uh writ large i mean they're not going away we know that he's also got
4:06
defensive missile issues as well because people are not giving them to him
4:10
in the amounts that he needs and we also know that he's got manpower issues. Well, as you said
4:17
I mean, Ukraine always had serious problems with corruption before the war. Yes. And that's unlikely to have changed
4:23
and people have profited from wars throughout history in every country. So if you've got an environment
4:28
where there's a greater deal of corruption, then it's probably accelerated somewhat
4:33
But I think on the whole, I think at the moment, and bear in mind, it's the summer
4:40
which is the end of the summer now, but it's extremely good news in the dry summer that the Russians are bogged down
4:45
because, of course, coming into the winter period, that's very hard to mobilise and continue
4:49
So I think he's done very well in terms of managing to backbeat him militarily into a corner
4:54
But as you say, without the missiles, I think human losses will increase. Thank you very much indeed, Alex
4:58
A very good call. Good to hear from you. Do call again soon. Eleanor in Camden. Eleanor, good afternoon
5:04
Hi, I'm Ukrainian living in the UK. I received sponsorship on being here after Russian invasion, which I'm really grateful for
5:20
And I would like to say, first of all, which many, I think, allies of Ukraine don't get
5:27
is that Ukrainian army is not an army of, I would say, professionals in the very beginning of it
5:36
So this is an army largely of civilians, of engineers, of teachers, of doctors
5:44
And I have many friends who voluntarily joined the armed forces. So that's the first that I would like to say
5:53
And elections are greatly not supported currently in Ukraine, even though the criticism of Zelensky and, of course, of all the corruption scandals
6:04
are discussed and are talked about and are protested against. So, yeah
6:14
And why do you think the election argument is not popular amongst Ukrainians, Elena
6:20
Is it a practical thing that you've obviously got so many hundreds of thousands of people on the front line
6:26
You've got people under Russian occupation in certain parts of the country
6:30
Is it a logistical matter? Or is it a loyalty to the president matter? What is it
6:36
No, it's loyalty to people defending us matter. because how do you get millions of people who are on the front lines
6:44
on occupied territories to vote? And even polling stations in Kiev and in remoter cities from the front line
6:52
like Lviv or Chernitsy or Ivano-Francivsk, they can all be reached with Russian hypersonic or ballistic missiles within minutes
7:04
And this, of course, will be the first target for Russia, polling stations, gathering hundreds of people
7:11
Elena as a Ukrainian what does success look like to you Oh that a very philosophical question you know I think first of all all people from front lines Ukrainians get safely home
7:33
Prisoners who were captured and tortured by Russia go home to their families, rehabilitate
7:40
and Ukraine keeps growing its arms and forces because it's the only way we can hold Russia together
7:50
because this goal of Russia will never cease to exist until there is a global re-education within the state of Russia
7:59
And do you see that as your future as being part of the EU and NATO
8:05
EU for sure. NATO, I don't want Ukraine to be somewhere where we are not wanted
8:14
I think we proved our power strong enough, well enough. And if we can make an alliance which is efficient and productive with Baltic countries, for instance
8:27
with our neighbors who directly know what Russian aggression is like, have been under Russian or Soviet occupation, Russian empire, I mean
8:36
Soviet occupation, they know how it is. And I'm sure our alliance might be even more efficient than NATO
8:45
where we are not wanted. Martin in Barnsley. Martin, afternoon. Afternoon. I don't think it matters really whether there's an election or what
8:52
because that war's going to carry on. That's the facts of it
8:56
And Putin's not going to get bored, because he's not going to tolerate NATO
9:00
What people need to understand is you're fighting on five fronts, net zero. Iran
9:06
you've got an economic war with US under carpet, same in China
9:11
and you're getting poorer by the day What was your argument Martin then
9:17
Is your argument to what, Qatar deal with Russia or what? At some point it will have to happen
9:23
because whoever's in Russia is not going to give in Well I mean I've always thought that
9:28
although depending on what you read Ukraine's actually having a decent fist of it at the moment
9:33
the Russians are suffering a lot of losses and they are really, I mean
9:37
barely inching forward at all, quite frankly. The issue for the Ukrainians is that the Patriot defensive missiles that they use
9:43
are being used in Iran by the US that has dwindling stocks of them
9:48
And it has gone to other countries to ask for stocks as well. Went to Athens, they said
9:53
no, we need it for our own purposes because we've got a hostile Turkey just potentially that we have to defend ourselves against
9:59
So it's not easy all round, quite frankly. if we just simply give in
10:04
is that not giving the wrong message to Russia? What people don't realise
10:09
is how much hardware has it crossed the Russians? It's cost them a fortune
10:13
He's not going to come any further. In my opinion, he's not going to come any further than Ukraine
10:17
because he physically can't because his munitions, his men's has been drained to the core
10:22
Yeah, I've never really bought the fact that he's going to be coming further than Ukraine myself
10:27
I've got to be honest. I mean, I know what I'd do if I were Putin very quickly He could end that war very quickly if he wanted
10:33
And all he has to do is, do you know them Aeolka missiles he's got? All he has to do is put a couple near Chernobyl
10:40
and to replace that dome, one trillion euros, that's the European continent bankrupt
10:47
And he knows that. What do you think about an election right now
10:52
What's the point? Because both sides are going to contest it because you can't hold an election in a wartime
10:57
when people can't get to vote. So no matter what happens, he said this, she said that
11:03
and that's what's going to happen. So it's going to be a deadly election result before you start
11:07
So then why is Mikhailo Fedorov, the former defence minister, why did he go down that road
11:11
Was that just a cheap shot to try and position himself for a leadership bid
11:15
And if it was a cheap shot to position himself for a leadership bid, why position yourself so early
11:20
when there's no chance of an election happening anyway? There might be one to the court against Zelensky
11:24
and try and cut to the Russians because they know they can't win. Now, that's really interesting
11:29
That's really, really interesting. I mean, I would love to hear people's view on that. Is that if we really think that there should be a change in the regime
11:37
with someone who's actually willing to cut a deal with the Russians
11:41
because this is now looking like a stalemate. Just a quick ogy
11:45
How could you cut a deal with President Trump at European Union? I don't follow. Tell me
11:51
Well, look at the Minsk agreements, what they've all signed. John Major, Russia, Ukraine, we'll be neutral
11:57
We'll defend it. Russians will defend it. And as soon as the European Union
12:00
want to push right up to the Russian border, you might as well set the mince agreement on fire because it would mean nothing
12:05
I agree with that. I think the Ukrainians have been sold down the river. Massively
12:09
Yeah, and look, I will say this, though. I think Zelensky's whole entire strategy
12:13
of joining the EU and joining NATO is complete pie-in-the-sky madness. Tell me any Russian president
12:19
who's going to stand for that. But no one's going to stand for it. But look, I'm seeing Mark Ritter
12:23
on the 16th of September in Ditchley. I will ask him this question
12:28
Just ask him because he's living on Fantasy Island. I respect Mark Rutter
12:34
I think he's a very capable man. But I will ask him, why is NATO entertaining this fantasy nonsense
12:40
of allowing a country bordering Russia to come into a so-called defensive alliance in NATO
12:46
which is not defensive? So whether there should be a general election or not is an interesting point
12:52
The bigger point is, is Zelensky pursuing the right strategy? Martin, good to speak to you. Thank you
12:58
Nick in Ilford. Nick, good afternoon. Friendly Putin apologist here. I'll just wait for that one
13:05
Put it in there. No one's been called that yet today. You're normally
13:08
really up on this stuff, Ali, but I think you're a bit off with this
13:13
You said a couple of things about the Black Sea. The Black Sea has been shut
13:19
down by the Russians. I haven't said anything about the Black Sea. Go on, you go
13:23
and carry on. You said that it's been defended by the ukrainians and keeping the russians off it's been shut down ukraine is unable to expel
13:32
uh sorry export its um grain at the moment and he's having trouble receiving weapons through
13:40
those ports and that all happened because of zelensky's idea of attacking um the grain ships
13:47
up in the azov sea which was part of an agreement so now and russia is taking a lot of land at the
13:55
moment it's increased russia seems to have taken its gloves off at the moment you may have noticed
14:00
that he's starting to attack kiev far more than he used to as far as his fedorov thing so is that
14:07
misreporting then nick because i mean we're being told there's a lot of propaganda on those i'm sure
14:12
there is i'm sure i'm sure there is propaganda because it's wartime but the latest uh mutterings
14:17
from the western press are that ukraine's actually doing quite well and russia's slowing down its
14:21
advances and losing more and more men and all the rest of it that's what we're hearing There has been losses on both sides The losses on both sides are massive Nobody can argue with that But I think if you believe Ukraine talking about Russian losses they lying And if you believe Russia about Ukrainian losses they lying
14:42
I don't think that's part of the bigger picture. It's part of maintaining support for the Ukrainians and keeping the money flowing so that they can fight the war
14:51
And they're legitimately fighting the war against an invading country. Whether you believe Russia should have done it or not, they are an invading country
15:00
so they've got everything to lose. But Fedorov overplayed. He's very popular in Ukraine
15:08
But having big falling out, from what I've read, big falling out with Zelensky over Zersky
15:16
which I think you've already intimated that, but he's overplayed it with the elections
15:20
First of all, Zelensky by law can't call an election. He's not allowed under their statutes
15:27
while they're under the measures that they're under. And to be honest with you, Russia would want Zelensky to stay
15:35
He's making mistakes. I mean, he's good at media, Zelensky. So he's recently called this what he called 40 Days of Pain
15:44
where the Ukrainians were starting to attack these large civilian centers for shopping
15:51
like their version of Amazon. Yep. absolutely blowing the hell out of them and what russia did was responding kind and start doing the
16:01
same to ukraine and it's caused a lot of problems in ukraine making mistakes but fedorov was wrong
16:10
and it just won't happen i don't think it's within his ability to do so and one of your earlier call
16:18
is correct fedorov lost a lot of support when he did that the people that were on the streets
16:23
on the streets. So you think he miscalculated? I mean, apparently, I mean
16:29
as you say, he's quite a popular minister. A lot of people wanted to see him reinstated as
16:35
defence minister, and apparently polling suggested that he would comfortably beat Zelensky in a hypothetical
16:41
election. It doesn't mean that obviously that gambit that he played will pay off, and obviously, as
16:47
you say, constitutionally it's not allowed. Do you think he's overplayed his hand
16:51
the reason the reason that the ukrainian population wanted him reinstated is he was
16:57
really good at his job he restructured the ukrainian army and a lot of the successes that
17:03
they had were down to him and not zersky it's a dental thing no i mean i'll be watching interviews
17:11
of ukrainian people on the street and unless that's propaganda as well they the support
17:17
absolutely fell away from Fedorov as soon as he started talking about wanting elections
17:22
I just don't think Zelensky can do it, and I don't think it could be done anyway
17:28
I mean, you spoke about America holding elections during the Second World War
17:32
They weren't fighting on their own land. They weren't invaded or occupied
17:39
I don't think it could be done, even if you wanted to call it. But moreover, I think the Russians want to keep Zelensky there
17:45
because he's making mistakes. John, a first-time caller in Kiev in Ukraine
17:49
John, welcome. Thanks very much, Ali. What would you like to say, sir
17:54
Well, I don't think now is the time to call an election for a number of reasons. I mean, first and foremost
17:59
the government's efforts need to be on the war effort itself and not organising an election during the middle of a war
18:07
Secondly, how do you actually include everybody in the electoral process? So, for example
18:12
all those people who are in the temporarily occupied territories in the south of the country
18:18
parts of Kherson, Zaporizhia, Luhansk etc and then also the large number of refugees who are
18:25
outside of the country numbering up to 10 million plus the people who are internally displaced
18:30
within the country itself so the actual way of completing an election in the middle of a war
18:38
with that sort of situation. It's just not practical and feasible. And just to add, I mean, you made a number of points
18:44
about what's been happening this week. One of the more interesting points is that the opposition groups
18:48
who were supporting Fedorov, supporting him to be reinstated as the Minister of Defence
18:55
have withdrawn their support. They've now said, when you've come out with this idea
18:59
of having an election, we are no longer going to support you. So the people who were marching on the streets
19:05
large numbers of them stopped marching on the streets, at this point, because everybody realises
19:10
that this is just a crazy idea at this point. So what do you think he's up to, Fedorov
19:16
Because he's not stupid, is he? I mean, was he... Do you think this was a move to try and get himself reinstated
19:22
as defence minister, where he was summarily dismissed over this dispute? Do you think that was the reason
19:29
Or do you think he genuinely wants to challenge Zelensky for the top job
19:32
What's he up to, this guy? I think he's bitter. and I can, to an extent, I can support that
19:40
I mean, what happened basically, he was originally pushed out over Sersky, the general
19:45
and it should perhaps have been better off and stayed in power. And I understand that he's bitter about that
19:51
I understand that he's done a lot in the country and within the Ministry of Defence to move things forward
19:56
But I think this is just a lack of maturity, to be honest, to be pushing for this
20:00
At this time, he's a young guy, smart as can be, but I don't think it's a particularly mature reflection
20:05
at this point in Ukraine's situation, shall we say. Tell me about corruption in Ukraine
20:11
because this is an issue that perpetually keeps coming up again and again and again
20:16
and it doesn't seem to be doing Vladimir Zelensky any good whatsoever. I mean, only this week
20:21
Deputy Presidential Administration Head Irina Mudra, a close Zelensky ally, was another target in raid
20:28
She's also been dismissed as well. What's going on there? Why is this place so corrupt? Well, I mean, first of all, the fact that you know
20:35
that there is corruption, the fact that there is a unit that does the investigations
20:39
is a sign that things are moving in the right direction. There are many other countries, and I only need to point you towards
20:46
what is happening right now in Hungary, now that they have a new person in power there
20:50
and how much they're actually uncovering that we didn't know about when Orbán was in power
20:56
At least in Ukraine, you have an anti-corruption body that is capable of bringing these issues forward and investigating them
21:05
which is not the case in many other countries that we consider has been less corrupt than Ukraine is
21:11
That corruption is a long-term problem in Ukraine. I agree, but I've managed organizations here with over 500 people in them
21:19
and I have never come across blatant corruption. Many of the systems that are in place, particularly for businesses
21:28
are put in place to ensure that corruption is controlled in a far greater way
21:32
that it would be somewhere like the United Kingdom. There is no cash, as a very simple example
21:38
Everything is done digitally. So for most businesses, it's actually quite difficult
21:43
to do something that's corrupt. And many things are going in the right direction
21:47
not least the fact that you know about this corruption at this point I understand that Are you comfortable or do you think the West should be comfortable John that the billions that are being spent there are all going to the front line
22:02
The billions that are spent there are not all going to the front line. I've managed budgets of up to sort of 30 million euros
22:08
30 million dollars at a time. So do we just sort of take it as like a rounding error
22:14
Do we just sort of like, you know, like oil companies used to do in Nigeria, You sort of have like these bits in your accounts for like sundry payments
22:21
Is that how we look at it? Like billions of sundry payments going to people? No, it's not
22:26
I mean, it's not all going to the front line. Some of it has been used in the rest of the countries
22:31
I was about to say a lot of it goes to efforts such as mining inside of Ukraine
22:35
Inevitably, on a front line and in an active contact situation, the equipment is lost
22:41
And inevitably, there will be a lot of problems when this war is over
22:45
For example, with the movement of arms, as we saw at the end of the war in Yugoslavia
22:49
there was a lot of arms that were smuggled into the rest of Europe
22:53
And we will see those problems again. The more we can mitigate against them, the better at this point
22:59
by pushing the Ukrainian government as much as we can. And we shouldn't underestimate the influence that we have
23:05
that the US have, the Canadians have, and other nations, the Germans as well in particular
23:10
in helping to support and orientate the Ukrainian government in the right direction
23:16
And there is a higher level of accountability now than there was at the start of the war
23:20
I mean, I think you'll probably remember well the British Minister of Defence
23:23
saying at one point that it was like Amazon. That is not the case now
23:28
It is a lot more accountable than it was. The situation is more stable. Frontlines are more stable
23:33
John, let me ask you this final question. And I'm really enjoying our conversation, given the fact that you're on the ground and you're giving intelligence
23:38
as you see it directly in your view. What about manpower shortages in Ukraine at the moment
23:43
We understand that since the start of last month, obviously the Russians are suffering their own huge casualties
23:49
and they're not having an easy time of it either. But Ukraine is also facing a manpower shortage
23:55
and official figures suggest that between 235 and 255,000 Ukrainian soldiers are absent without leave with a further 54,000 to 56,000 deserters
24:08
and that two million are evading the draft completely. I mean, what's the sense on the ground there
24:15
It's a very tricky question. It really is. And I mean, I get stopped myself quite frequently
24:21
by the conscription squads, if you like. Obviously, I can explain that I'm British
24:25
and what I'm actually doing here, the fact that I'm demining helps, but it is a major issue
24:30
Now, Fedorov, to his credit, has gone some way to addressing this
24:34
So he's more or less tripled the salary of the basic soldiers on the front line
24:39
and he's also changed a little bit the mentality. So certainly in the past, and to an extent
24:45
I don't blame generals like Serskis for this. They all, at some stage or another
24:50
all good generals will make sacrifices of men, but certainly in the past, there was the impression
24:56
that he was sacrificing too many men. And Fedorov has changed that perception
25:00
where he's trying to say that we will not sacrifice men in the same way
25:04
Inevitably, all generals do that at some point in an active combat zone
25:09
But the attitude is changing slightly. What needs to be in place is a more systematic approach to the whole of the Ukrainian military
25:17
So certain military units don't have any problems with recruiting people. Other military units have more significant problems recruiting them
25:27
But Fedorov had started to address this, and I think those reforms are continuing
25:31
and certainly the supremacy of the Ukrainians with regards to drones on the contact line
25:38
and their use of drones and preferring to use both ground and air-based drones
25:43
instead of men is making a difference in changing perceptions. The kill ratio is anywhere between
25:49
at least eight Russians per Ukrainian to 15 to 20 Russians per Ukrainian
25:55
Okay. John, a really excellent call. I really appreciate your time. I do take care out there
26:00
Thank you very much indeed. That was John, a first-hand caller from Kiev in Ukraine, giving his sense and intelligence from the front line, really
26:06
Andrea in East London. Good afternoon, Andrea. Salaam alaykum, Khoed. Walaikum salaam, sir
26:11
What would you like to say? It's always good to hear from what I'll call CIA mouthpieces
26:15
supposedly on the ground in Ukraine. We don't know that's true. I don't know, really
26:20
It's like listening to Robert McNamara giving us the truth about the Vietnam War. It's just total rubbish
26:24
As a matter of fact, there are two perspectives to answer your question. One, from a sort of abstract bourgeois liberal constitutional point of view, Zelensky, although he's called emergency circumstances, is basically illegally occupying his presidency
26:37
But the thing is, he is just the CIA, MI5, Mossad, NATO puppet
26:42
And geopolitically, his regime is being inexorably ground down by irresistible Russian power, the same Russian power that destroyed the Wehrmacht and destroyed Napoleon
26:52
But why are you saying he's a CIA, a Mossad puppet? Why
26:56
I mean, look, he might be being supported by the US and the UK and everyone else
27:02
It might be a useful tool for them to stop an advance of Russia into Europe further
27:07
But why is he a puppet if he wants to support his own people and protect his own land
27:11
OK, first of all, he isn't that. But I plead the greater wisdom of people like Jotty Barr and Professor Glenn Deason
27:17
and Professor Jeffrey Zaks and Professor John Mersheimer and K.J. Noe, basically geopolitical commentators who know what's going on
27:24
And you will recall it took two, what do they call it, 2014 Maydown revolutions to install the precursor of Zelensky
27:31
And then Zelensky, the TV actor, miraculously gets installed as president by an entirely clean election
27:38
This kind of joke about I'm a TV actor who becomes president is just typical of MI5-6 smarty pants Oxbridge joke players
27:45
And he is basically, as I say, a puppet. And in terms of geopolitical historical parallels, the reason why NATO and the CIA, MI56 and Mossad wanted to move into Ukraine is very like what the Nazis wanted to do with Operation Barbarossa, basically turn Ukraine into an armed camp and then loot Mother Russia for as much resources as possible
28:07
And so it's noticeable that after the great credit extraction crisis of 2008, that was when Obama began to authorize CIA bases to be built in Ukraine
28:19
So basically, at the fundamental level, Zelensky and his puppet regime are precursors to trying to install Yeltsin Part II in Mother Russia, back to the plutocrats and the resource looters, back to the good old days
28:32
unfortunately that hasn't worked out which is why capitalists in london and wall street and
28:37
paris and berlin brussels are in a panic and that's why they're prepared to spend hundreds
28:42
of billions on a doomed project the question is when zelensky's regime collapses and hopefully
28:47
in the water war crimes trial in moscow what will happen to the reputation of the ruling
28:52
echelons in western europe they'll be made looking a bit stupid wouldn't they ali and how will they
28:57
Well, it's interesting, but there's no sign of him going yet. So I don't know
29:01
I mean, this could be quite a while if there's no election held, Andrea, but a lot of people find what you said deeply, deeply offensive
29:08
and I'm sure that they're going to take a contrasting view. But thank you for expressing yours
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