Up next in 10
The boss of Interactive Investor has shared his top three tips for investing in UK and foreign markets.
Richard Wilson, speaking to Jon Robinson on the latest episode of City AM's Boardroom Uncovered podcast, has set out what he thinks all investors should do in order to maximise their returns.
The chief executive was speaking ahead of Chancellor Rachel Reeves delivering her Spring Statement on 26 March.
@interactiveinvestoruk is the third investment platform to be featured on Boardroom Uncovered after Robinhood and eToro.
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Produced by: Jon Robinson, Emmanuel Nwosu, Joseph Curay Teneda, Joe Lee
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0:00
I'm getting into tricky territory here
0:01
if you had to appoint a celebrity to
0:04
your board who would it be and why God
0:06
forbid you did that I can't think of
0:07
anything worse are you optimistic about
0:10
the UK economy well I'm an optimist by
0:13
Nature we're um I'm getting into tricky
0:15
territory here we don't appear to have
0:19
um a very strong political class the US
0:21
is currently um a very attractive place
0:25
to operate in because they they have
0:27
done a better job at supporting growth
0:30
investment and belief um so there lots
0:33
of things that we can we can learn from
0:35
hello and welcome to another episode of
0:37
bour uncovered from cityam with me John
0:39
Robinson my guest for this Edition is
0:41
Richard Wilson the chief executive of
0:44
interactive investor Wilson who is also
0:47
Chief Operating Officer of parent
0:48
company aedine has been in charge of II
0:51
for eight years and has overseen the
0:53
transformation of the financial services
0:55
provider but as competition has eated up
0:57
in recent years from the likes of eoro
0:59
trading 212 and Robin Hood how is II not
1:03
only maintaining its position but also
1:05
growing its market share without any
1:07
further delay let's dive in Richard
1:09
thank you very much for coming on board
1:10
and recover it's great to have you thank
1:12
you very much for having me it's good to
1:14
see you I've been a couple of years
1:15
since we were last together I think it
1:17
has yes first question what kind of
1:21
leader are you oh that's a good question
1:23
I'm probably not the best person to ask
1:25
um I'd like to think that um I am uh
1:29
Prince principled um energetic some
1:32
people would call me Rel Relentless and
1:35
focused but um most of my job is
1:38
supporting the team and listening and
1:42
helping so I guess that would be a
1:45
participative inclusive leader um you
1:48
want to create an environment where
1:50
people feel safe to express themselves
1:53
to be themselves and just stay focused
1:56
on the Target and um solve problems one
1:59
at of time
2:01
so uh if that defines leadership then
2:05
then great occasionally you got to make
2:07
a bit of a bold decision and sometimes
2:09
that falls on my shoulders but not very
2:12
often I think if you're making too many
2:14
decisions yourself you've got something
2:15
wrong and just enjoy the time with the
2:18
people you work with and um look forward
2:20
to tomorrow celebrate success support
2:23
people who have a bad day and go again
2:26
you talk about success interactive
2:27
investor has had a lot of that
2:30
in recent years what do you put that
2:32
growth down to I mean I think um uh on
2:36
the one hand we we've got a sensible
2:38
proposition where we're very clear that
2:40
that we uh exist to support people
2:45
taking control of their financial future
2:48
um we've got a great operating culture
2:51
where um we we're there to serve our
2:55
customers and make sure we stand in
2:57
front of their uncertainties and
3:00
problems what makes us a bit different
3:02
is we have a subscription model so we're
3:04
a fixed price um provider which is not
3:07
the norm which means that the more you
3:09
have the more you save and it provides
3:12
Clarity and simplicity for we get paid
3:15
to provide a service and we don't take a
3:16
slice of your wealth for the privilege
3:20
um everything else is about delivering
3:23
service and delivering new Solutions and
3:26
new products to help consumers engage
3:29
with their their wealth and engage with
3:32
their future plans so that they're in a
3:34
place where they can feel more confident
3:36
about their money and their life that
3:39
sort of scription model is unique to
3:43
your organization since real last spoke
3:45
it seems that the competition in your
3:46
space is just blown up you you've got
3:49
eoro you got trading C12 various other
3:52
platforms that competes with what you're
3:55
offering how are you dealing with that
3:58
increased competition and trying to set
3:59
yourself out compared to the others well
4:02
I think our our job is to provide a a
4:05
great service we compete against
4:09
everybody um the big us houses the Neo
4:12
Brokers the life companies the UK Banks
4:17
um we think that we deliver Great Value
4:19
um we won't be the best service for
4:22
everybody was not Our intention to be
4:25
some panasia for all um but for the
4:28
audience which
4:30
we um we're focused on which is people
4:32
with more than 10 15,000 pounds of
4:35
investable assets so we provide a a
4:37
range of services with a um a leading
4:41
sip proposition um a great and fast
4:45
trading ability um and related services
4:49
that mean that we're just a good outcome
4:51
for people who want a fast reliable
4:53
service um when if You' got an issue
4:55
that we answer the phone if I was a new
4:58
investor
4:59
to get into it I was choosing a
5:01
particular platform what three top tips
5:05
would you give to me the first thing is
5:09
um in terms of my investment choices do
5:13
they match what I need so if you're
5:14
starting early um you really want to
5:17
have a very simple uh lowcost
5:20
accumulation with a range of funds which
5:24
you can select between some providers
5:26
only provide their own funds which um is
5:28
quite Limited
5:30
um and you want to make sure that in
5:31
terms of what you're putting your
5:34
investments in whether it's an ice or a
5:36
sip or an investment account that you
5:38
prioritize your long-term savings and
5:41
then your shorter term investments so
5:43
that you can match those to your life
5:46
stage and your ambition and your risk
5:48
appetite I think the key thing for the
5:51
the consumer the UK consumer certainly
5:54
is to start as early as possible the
5:56
eighth wonder of the world is
5:58
compounding um and and the earier you
6:00
start um the more that you'll have in
6:03
the end I think we've got well over a
6:05
thousand icea millionaires for example
6:08
and um that's a a process where they
6:11
just consistently invested in their is
6:15
over the the long run and that
6:18
consistent sensible um behavior is
6:21
rewards you in the end it's entirely
6:24
right also to have your own personal
6:26
interests and if you think you know
6:28
particularly keen on a particular
6:30
technology or a particular part of the
6:32
world then you might want to put a
6:33
little bit in into that space um but
6:37
generally we're there to support the
6:40
accumulation of wealth so that you've um
6:43
you're in a place that you think you you
6:45
can be and need be um in later life is
6:48
there a particular investing Trend that
6:50
you've noticed over the last few months
6:52
or so it's called your eye over the last
6:55
two or three years I mean you've got the
6:58
the mag 7 phenomenon in the us which has
7:01
um uh dragged a great deal of investment
7:04
towards us markets and of course because
7:06
they're in a lot of the
7:08
indexes um that's um being a very
7:11
popular Trend um and in terms of the
7:15
actual products we see enormous growth
7:18
in um index funds and ETFs and people
7:23
trading more foreign markets and the UK
7:26
markets because the UK markets
7:28
unfortunately with the current tax
7:31
regime the UK Market's just about
7:33
untradeable which is not very good for
7:36
um the long-term health of the country
7:38
but um we still provide I think we do
7:40
something like 25% of UK retail share
7:44
trading so we get a but a reasonable
7:46
look at the the the trends out there and
7:48
most people want to have access to the
7:51
choices for them and everyone's
7:53
different but in the main it's I want to
7:55
have a long-term accumulating um product
7:59
which is
8:00
no surprises and doesn't a lot cost a
8:02
lot to run yeah you talk about the tax
8:06
policies in the UK at the moment uh
8:09
you're obviously not so much of a fan
8:11
why is that well I don't blame the
8:13
current government the previous
8:15
government um uh didn't solve it either
8:19
um we imposed a a transaction tax um in
8:23
the late eight8 early 90s um and the
8:28
effect of that is to gradually erode the
8:31
UK market and everyone cries about know
8:35
IPOs going to the US or know lack of
8:39
growth in the UK uh if you tax your
8:42
Market out of existence you you get um
8:46
first of all you get less tax because um
8:49
it doesn't actually work and secondly
8:51
it's not by Magic that if youve got
8:53
higher valuations um elsewhere I when I
8:56
would do the same you would list
8:58
elsewhere so what you're seeing is a a
9:00
gradual um undermining of the UK market
9:04
and if you ask any algorithm or any fund
9:08
to increase its allocation to the UK
9:11
Market on trading basis they won't
9:13
actually buy the shares they'll buy
9:14
derivatives because the the transaction
9:16
cost makes every decision irrational
9:18
we've got the spring statement coming up
9:20
soon what would you like to see Rachel
9:22
re announcing that well Rachel Reeves U
9:25
it's not for me to to put myself in the
9:27
chancellor issues um she has as we all
9:30
know some some challenges and fiscal
9:33
headr is um is clearly a problem given
9:37
the um the growth rates um tracking down
9:41
toward zero um inflation being somewhat
9:46
um resilient and therefore interest
9:48
rates being a bit higher which then
9:51
affects the cost of funding government
9:53
debt um I think she needs to be quite
9:56
courageous um and solve the long run um
10:01
the bond market obviously puts a speed
10:03
limit on what you can do but um things
10:06
like transaction tax you have to resolve
10:08
that because you're it's a Munch housing
10:11
problem you're poisoning your kid and
10:13
you either solve it now or the market
10:15
will solve it for you um increasing the
10:18
tax on employers um was a a a I mean
10:23
there's a there's a gap to fill you
10:25
could argue quite easily that that um
10:28
income tax would would have been a a
10:30
much bigger pool a much more sensible to
10:32
do rather than to reduce the appetite
10:35
for employers to hire and increase the
10:37
cost of employment and we're seeing that
10:39
coming through in the
10:41
various um surveys about employers
10:44
appetite to hire is has dropped if you
10:47
if you're trying to to promote a growth
10:49
environment we've got something like 13
10:52
13 14 million people who work in family
10:55
and small businesses in the country
10:58
they're the bed Rock of of our future
11:00
and you have to do everything you can to
11:02
to promote their their growth and things
11:06
like iht have have caused I mean for
11:09
what's a very small number have caused
11:12
all sorts of angst and we've seen
11:14
tractors in the streets um so you you
11:18
have to argue that to grow you have to S
11:21
support that growth agenda with a with a
11:24
tax structure that make sense you also
11:26
got to attract talent and retain talent
11:28
in the country um and we have in
11:30
financial services certainly the the
11:33
regime of kind of deferrals and um long
11:37
notice periods um slow down the process
11:41
of of people moving um and you have this
11:44
strange environment you you don't see it
11:46
in the US in New York at all where um
11:49
you might be I'm sitting on the uh
11:52
Garden leave for six months or a year
11:55
and for your most valuable Talent you
11:57
could if you change jobs four or five
12:00
times over 30 years you're taking a a
12:03
big chunk of your best people out of the
12:04
market so that stuff just makes no
12:10
sense time for those quick fire
12:12
questions Rich go what was your first
12:14
job my first job was part for as a kid
12:19
um doing sheep sharing the summer which
12:20
I would even talk about because it was
12:21
two two four um my first job was as a
12:25
graduate trainee in Lloyd's
12:28
International Bank in 1988 which I did
12:31
for a year who inspires you there's a
12:35
whole bunch of people that different
12:36
parts of my life have inspired me um
12:40
some of my colleagues frankly inspire me
12:42
a great deal um if I had to pick one
12:45
person particularly be my uncle as a as
12:48
a role model for how you live your life
12:50
and what being a true professional is
12:53
ISA I always looked up to as being
12:55
someone I wanted to be if you had to
12:58
appoint a celebrity to your board who
13:00
would it be and why God forbid you did
13:02
that um I can't think of anything worse
13:05
um well for a bit of sport you might
13:07
have Elon in the room he will certainly
13:08
create a bit of a bit of a a bit of
13:11
dialogue um there are some extraordinar
13:15
gifted people out there who now find
13:18
themselves running large large
13:19
Enterprises I'm not sure I'm not sure i'
13:21
have many film stars in there but you've
13:23
got a a bunch of very very smart people
13:26
um who running a major tech companies
13:28
well by any one of those those would
13:29
would would do for me what's the best
13:31
thing about your job the people um I
13:34
love being in Manchester with the team
13:37
um that that that hustle and bustle um
13:41
the ongoing conversations the the um the
13:46
ambition and the belief that we're we're
13:48
doing something which actually it brings
13:50
good um gives me energy and I just love
13:53
it if you weren't doing this what would
13:56
you be doing my ambition was to be a
13:58
musician and I was never really good
14:00
enough so I stare at my piano we have
14:02
this kind of onoff relationship where
14:04
the piano says you need need to try
14:06
harder um so I'd like to think I'd be
14:10
some sort of um penist in a bar
14:13
somewhere um uh so I think I think being
14:17
in in in music would probably be what I
14:20
would hope to be and finally if you were
14:21
prime minister for the day what would
14:22
you do gosh that's a tricky one um a day
14:27
is not a long time uh politics um time
14:30
is getting
14:31
shorter uh if for a day all I would hope
14:35
to be able to do is um bring some belief
14:39
and conviction about what kind of
14:41
society that we want to be and what
14:44
country we need to be somewhere where um
14:48
ambition is good where people can aspire
14:51
to greater things where hard work is
14:54
rewarded where your children are safe in
14:56
the streets where we protect our
14:59
citizens um from the outside and where
15:02
we focus on key future um developments
15:07
around technology and health care and
15:10
education so we can put our country
15:13
where it needs to be which is a Leading
15:14
Light and Innovation with strong values
15:17
that are centered on the
15:19
family now you just mentioned about uh
15:22
being a Manchester interactive investor
15:24
is a proud Manch where we met last yes
15:26
it's proud Manchester company so we're
15:28
going to take over this now and just
15:29
talk about Manchester and why that's
15:31
better than London why is it important
15:34
that interactive investor is still
15:35
headquartered in Manchester well I could
15:39
ask the question why would you want to
15:40
be anywhere else you've got um it's a
15:43
wonderful place with a
15:46
great suburban area lots of things to do
15:50
and for us the important thing is build
15:52
to access um talent and Manchester's um
15:56
gone through a period where it's now a a
15:59
net sort of magnet in terms of of talent
16:02
um I can't think of being anywhere else
16:05
frankly it's it works for us I think
16:07
we've got just about 700 people in in
16:10
Manchester um and um we just enjoy enjoy
16:15
being there greatest city in the world
16:17
some might say some might say some some
16:19
might say other things but but they be
16:21
wrong no I'm you obviously got um some
16:25
some personal bias there which I can
16:26
celebrate celebrate a difference of view
16:29
yeah absolutely um let's get back to the
16:31
serious stuff shall we let's talk about
16:33
Rachel Reeves obviously she's the lab
16:35
government's not in power for for even a
16:37
year yet but they've obviously had a
16:40
budget we've got the spring statement
16:41
coming up how would you rate her
16:44
performance so far I mean it's not for
16:47
me to get involved in in in in politics
16:50
um but I think as I said um previously
16:54
the the the growth agenda doesn't isn't
16:58
matched with growth policies the um the
17:02
imposition of the employe taxes as an
17:05
example is is a net negative um and I'm
17:09
not seeing in terms of industrial policy
17:12
I'm not seeing that translating into
17:15
into to growth factors um ihts caused
17:19
some disturbance I mean for a tax raise
17:21
of I think which is half a half a
17:23
billion quid um as a disincentive to
17:27
invest in in your family Andor small
17:31
business which is where all of our
17:32
futures come from um that's that's
17:36
disappointing and clearly there are
17:39
there are fiscal challenges but what we
17:41
can't do is allow ideology to get in the
17:43
way of Economics um and we need to be
17:46
able to be wealthy enough as a nation to
17:48
be to be generous you don't do that by
17:51
under undermining growth are you
17:53
optimistic about the UK economy it
17:55
doesn't sound like you wholly are well
17:58
I'm an optimist but by
17:59
Nature um we're um I'm getting into
18:03
tricky territory here the the we like to
18:06
be in tricky territory on the show we we
18:08
don't appear to have um a very strong
18:11
political class um the depth of
18:14
leadership that we have in politics
18:17
is is um is short why is that do you
18:20
think um that's a a bit of a head
18:22
scratch I think um there's a number of
18:25
reasons for that we don't value it very
18:27
well um we're very easy to criticize
18:30
people and lambas them in the newspapers
18:34
for going to a football match or
18:36
whatever um to trivialize what what they
18:39
do we also don't reward them very well
18:43
um the I think an MP salary is is just
18:48
about a smidge above um a junior
18:51
supervisor in the city in London um so
18:55
we've got a number of reasons why um
18:58
it's not a very appealing uh vocation um
19:03
and it it I think the Western world's a
19:06
bit short of um strong leaders today um
19:10
which is a risk for all of us so is
19:13
certainly a moment of reflection a clear
19:14
in the UK recently we've seen some
19:17
fairly material changes in support for
19:20
different parties obviously the
19:21
conservatives had a bit of a a howler in
19:24
the the last election the new government
19:27
hasn't exactly covered itself self in in
19:29
in glory you've got the emergence of the
19:32
Reform Party and we've clearly got some
19:35
significant challenges to face and we
19:37
need that our institutions to stand up
19:39
and be strong and we need to have simple
19:41
rules that we can work by so we're clear
19:44
if we investing you don't find yourself
19:46
where someone's changing the rules later
19:49
um well that just discourages everybody
19:51
from investing but we have a wonderful
19:54
um environment in the UK we've got
19:57
wonderful Talent we've got some great
19:59
strength so we just need to be
20:00
consistent and keep it simple you
20:02
mentioned earlier about uh Elon Musk of
20:06
course he's taking on a a more prominent
20:07
role in the US does that have any sort
20:10
of direct impact on interactive investor
20:13
and your business model no in an answer
20:16
in a way um what's going on in the world
20:18
is is
20:21
fantastically um interesting as OB
20:24
clearly there's lots of volatility out
20:26
there now with all sorts of things go on
20:29
in terms of geopolitics and people
20:31
taking big positions which they may then
20:35
stand out from later um but it clearly
20:39
is changing the world order and um um
20:44
the US is currently um a very attractive
20:48
place to operate in because they they
20:50
have a done a better job at supporting
20:53
growth investment and belief um so there
20:56
lots of things that we can we can learn
20:58
from
20:59
clearly over the last few years global
21:01
trade has been fractured a little bit um
21:03
by various events over the last 15 20
21:08
years including the global financial
21:09
crisis um and we need to be able to find
21:12
a way to be able to promote global trade
21:15
was making sure that we stay safe um and
21:18
we've obviously number of countries have
21:20
found themselves somewhat short changed
21:23
um when certain events take place and
21:25
the gas supply gets shut off or they
21:27
don't have Supply of widgets for their
21:29
cars so there's there been some harsh
21:31
lessons in terms of Supply
21:34
chains um an interesting interesting
21:36
times I think is fair to say
21:38
diplomatically put some might say let's
21:41
switch to your company interactive
21:43
investor where do you think your company
21:46
will be in the next five years huh um
21:50
well I hope um that we continue to grow
21:54
and develop new services so we've got a
21:58
a new highend trading platform which um
22:01
we'll be um going into beter on in the
22:04
next few days we're increas continuously
22:07
um improving automation of investment
22:11
choices um so we'll have a new managed
22:14
sip product in the second quarter we
22:16
went live in October with our social
22:19
investing platform which is is kind of
22:22
cool and that helps people engage with
22:25
each other to be able to learn um and
22:27
take views from
22:29
um an audience where I mean our our
22:32
customers are pretty
22:34
engaged relative to um the rest of the
22:37
the market and within that know half a
22:40
million or so people you've got some
22:42
brilliant people who know more about um
22:46
investment choices and indeed our
22:47
platform than I do so it's great to have
22:50
them to share their views um so people
22:53
can learn from each other and just
22:54
reduce that level of uncertainty know
22:57
the world's full of Uncertain things
22:59
but you more confidence to make the
23:00
right choices for you taking the inputs
23:03
that you need to I was interested that
23:04
you introduced that last year was that
23:06
in a direct result be uh from eoro
23:11
because they already offered that did
23:13
you look at that competition thought we
23:15
needed to get we're aware of
23:18
what's uhar did which is a it's a it's a
23:22
great kind of um thought process think
23:25
trading 212 has a uh an environment and
23:29
we've been working on that um since 2020
23:33
um so a while in the a while in the
23:36
coming for us it's just a sensible
23:39
Concept in in trying to
23:42
engage um as much as possible um people
23:47
with their Investments and not closing
23:49
off the world of exchange of views and
23:53
understanding what people around them
23:54
are doing without obviously respecting
23:56
anonity and so forth and it's just
23:58
another generation away from what used
24:00
to be chat rooms and this is now kind of
24:03
a curated space which just allows those
24:06
conversations to be um whilst they're
24:09
protected to be able to um share views
24:12
and Link that to data around their
24:14
investment so people can see have you
24:16
got an idea of who's actually taken up
24:19
that opportunity sure ages demographics
24:23
backgrounds it's it's early it's early
24:26
it's early early days um but the it's a
24:29
broad the the demographic um largely
24:32
matches our our overall customer base so
24:37
um we have a curve which goes from sort
24:40
of 18 to 103 or whatever it is and we
24:44
have a kind of the the the the maximum
24:47
um concentration of peoples in they 45
24:50
to 60 levels you see that more um it is
24:54
today more um male than female um so
24:59
we're
24:59
promoting um some threads and themes
25:03
which are more skewed to female
25:05
interests and other female group and so
25:07
on to help people um that promote
25:10
greater engagement what does that look
25:12
like in practice well in practice you
25:14
have a a a group which will have a
25:17
thread called X so if if women investing
25:21
um it could be linked to you know Junior
25:24
Isis and and other related themes to to
25:27
bring points of interest where different
25:29
types of people have want to be involved
25:32
in a different type of community so they
25:33
feel a they feel safe and they don't
25:36
feel silly asking questions yeah because
25:38
a lot of us you you know
25:41
you there's a there's so much
25:43
uncertainty about what the reality is
25:45
that people feel a bit shy about asking
25:47
things so you know I've got a junior eye
25:49
so what do I do it's a very
25:52
straightforward question but you say
25:53
well who do I ask so having a thread
25:55
which says Junior Isa please help you'll
25:58
have like 100 people commenting there's
26:00
information that you can trust as well
26:02
there's an awful lot of information out
26:04
there on the internet but trying to find
26:07
reptical answers is a challenge we have
26:10
a blizzard of stuff out there whether it
26:13
be on social media or in other kind of
26:15
traditional channels and trying to
26:18
understand what the relevance is for me
26:20
and how is is not easy at all and quite
26:23
often of course information is loaded uh
26:26
they're try to encourage you to do
26:27
something rather than just Express in
26:30
know kind of an independent view um so
26:32
that's very valuable to have you know an
26:34
unbiased um and unfettered kind of
26:38
conversation between people who are of a
26:40
similar type in a similar life stage
26:43
number of children income whatever it is
26:46
that says you know you can relate to
26:47
people and have a conversation so you
26:50
just get more confident that it's okay
26:52
to have the conversation you're not
26:53
being sold something in the process and
26:55
part of our pricing model has always
26:57
been a bound um being agnostic um we we
27:01
get we get paid know a fixed monthly fee
27:05
we're not incentivized to try and
27:07
encourage people to trade more um we
27:10
don't gamify anything and we don't make
27:13
more money whether you buy fundex or or
27:15
you know instrument y so it it that's
27:18
very helpful into having an even uh an
27:21
even balance view finally Richard I want
27:23
ask this question to to everybody what
27:26
does it take to be a good chief
27:28
executive well I mean I I I think you
27:31
need to understand the underlying the
27:35
underpinnings of why you're there what
27:37
your business is about what your your
27:40
mission is um you then need to um more
27:44
important than anything else understand
27:46
people so that you can then um encourage
27:52
and recruit and Inspire and retain
27:55
people to be responsible parts of that
27:58
organization and help Hope me hopefully
28:01
help them build their careers by an
28:04
enriching their professional
28:06
experience and then being Having the
28:10
courage to be focused and Having the
28:13
courage to say no and have the have the
28:16
courage to make that no uh um uh very
28:19
clear and positive because most
28:22
organizations um fail because they um
28:26
they don't stay focused and they drift
28:28
off their their core purpose they chase
28:30
rabbits or shiny toys or whatever they
28:33
do um and I mean our business has been
28:36
successful so far I think because we've
28:40
been pretty clinical about what we do
28:42
for a living and having been distracted
28:44
by then there's noise every day so I oh
28:46
my God Robin Hood or made Maran or
28:49
Little John whenever the latest thing
28:51
coming oh my God oh my God my God what
28:52
are you going to do and the answer is
28:53
you you stay focused on the job think
28:56
very hard about the data look at who
28:58
your audiences understand what your
29:01
operating capabilities are and just
29:04
execute brilliant Richard thank you very
29:06
much for coming on the show great to see
29:08
you thank you so much thank you
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