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Are Rachel Reeves' tax hikes an own goal? | Boardroom Uncovered
Sep 3, 2025
The chief executive of holiday park chain Butlin’s has hit out at Chancellor Rachel Reeves after saying increases taxes on businesses is not the way to improve the UK economy. He added that both tax rises has made it harder for companies such as Butlin’s to hire new employees and that the Autumn Budget in 2024 felt like a “tax on jobs”. Speaking to City AM's UK editor, Jon Robinson, on the latest episode of City AM's Boardroom Uncovered, Jon Hendry Pickup said the country is “not going to tax ourselves to success” and that last year’s Autumn Budget “felt like an own goal”. Watch or listen to more Boardroom Uncovered episodes here 👇 https://linktr.ee/boardroomuncovered Get more of City AM 👇 🌐 http://www.cityam.com X(formerly Twitter): http://twitter.com/CityAM Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/cityam Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/city_am LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/company/cityam Produced by: Jon Robinson, Joseph Curay Teneda, Emmanuel Nwosu #interview #podcast #business #ceo #entrepreneur #entrepreneurship #tech #technology #finance #personalfinance #review
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0:00
I don't buy the the the press story about someone like Colleen Rooney, for example, that says, "Well, you should
0:05
only be in fivestar hotels." We want to be able to provide jobs, but not just
0:10
jobs where you come and work for a little bit of time and then leave. The number of people who work for us who
0:15
say, "Oh, I was only coming for a summer holiday, but I've ended up here for 20 years." is uh is amazing. If you're
0:23
bothered about status and labels and you know who who you're who you're around
0:29
and you know I have to be sat here doing this and you know I have to I have to look like that on social media. It's
0:36
probably not for you but that's fine. There's other stuff that you can do. don't buy the the the press story about
0:41
someone like Colleen Rooney, for example, that says, "Well, you should only be in fivestar hotels." Because if
0:47
her kids love that and that works for her, and she's focused on that mission, which is entertainment, which which she
0:54
was, then happy days. Why not? Hello and welcome to another edition of City's Boardroom Uncovered with me, John
1:00
Robinson. My guest for this episode is John Henry Pickup, the CEO of Butlands.
1:05
Having previously worked for a Tesco travel lodge Imprezo, the CEO has set about repositioning the iconic British
1:11
holiday park chain with an aim to attract younger guests. But is his strategy working? How has the cost of
1:17
living crisis impacted the business? And can Butland's really become cool with millennials and Gen Zed? Without any
1:24
further delay, let's dive in. Well, John, it's great to have you on board Uncovered. Thank you so much for coming in.
1:29
Um, there's only one place to start. I've got to confess something to you. I've never actually been to a butler.
1:36
Okay. Probably probably hate me. No, no, no. That's that's okay. But um I
1:42
I hadn't as well. So So I grew up in Blackpool. There was one there, but it was a hotel. And so I'd seen it and been
1:49
in there. Uh but my understanding of Butland really flourished when I when I came to to work here or or in my in my
1:56
advance of of coming to work at Butland. And um you know the it astounded me just
2:03
the size and the scale of the place and it really brought home to me the importance of short breaks in the
2:11
seaside in the UK and we we really do things differently from anybody else and
2:17
that's that's been brilliant to see and it's been a fantastic experience for the last seven years. Yeah. Talk to me about growing up in
2:23
Blackpool then. You've been used to seaside. Yeah. Destinations I suppose. It feels um it's
2:29
almost fated, isn't it, that growing up in Blackpool and then only at working here, it feels like a like a perfect
2:34
combination. Uh it was great growing up because there's always something to do. Um it's a bit sad if you look now at
2:42
what's happened with, you know, the race to the bottom in terms of prices and so on with B&Bs and and that type of thing.
2:49
I think there's there's work that we can do because if you look at the if you look at the first 30 meters of Blackpool
2:54
from the Sea, it's beautiful. It's a blue flag beach is 11 miles of that and it's fabulous and so is the uh so is the
3:01
prominard but you need to work on a plan as to what you're going to do and that's sort of what we've been we've been doing with
3:06
butlands as well over the last few years. So was it up to the Lake District for holidays then or is it Yeah, we did we did we did caravan
3:13
holidays in the lakes because it's only an hour away. So you know it's beautiful there when the weather's good. Yeah. It's and that and that helps that
3:20
makes a big difference when you're in a caravan. need you need decent weather really to round out the holiday. Um and
3:25
we did a bit of stuff in Europe as well when we were when we were growing up from time to time. Yeah, for sure. Blackpool, you know,
3:32
it's it's changed a lot, I suppose, since you you grew up there. It's there's been a bit of decay, a bit of um
3:38
you know, lack of investment in a town such as Blackpool. It's similar story across the whole of the UK, I suppose.
3:46
Um and the areas where the Butland Resorts are based, you could probably fit that category. Is that something
3:51
that you as a business have to fight against? It's not in sexy locations, I suppose. Well, the the key thing for us is
3:57
accessibility and we also want to work with the local communities in each of the areas that
4:03
we're in with the biggest employer in the area and that's something that really matters to us in that relationship as well. We want to be able
4:10
to provide jobs, but not just jobs where you come and work for a little bit of
4:15
time and then leave. The number of people who work for us who say, "Oh, I was only coming for a summer holiday, but I've ended up here for 20 years." Is
4:22
uh is amazing. You know, if we look at our operating board, we've got two people who sit on the operating board who started out at 18 as red coats. They
4:30
had more talent than me because I don't get a red coat because I can't sing and I can't dance. And and these guys are
4:35
talented, right? So, I don't get to do that. Um, so, so from from that point of
4:40
view, I I like to think that we do something to, to break that notion that
4:46
these seaside locations are somehow not very interesting and not great
4:51
places to go because we get a million and a half visitors every year across the three resorts. And so, long may that
4:58
continue. So, part of the interview process for the job wasn't that you had to go work for a weekend as a red coat.
5:04
If I had, I wouldn't have got a job. There's no chance because I can't sing and I can't dance. So, uh, no, I didn't
5:10
I didn't get to do that. But you should see the the the interview process for Red Coats is really tough. What do you have to do?
5:16
Uh, so, well, we get lots of applications. So, Mike, who's our entertainment director, choreographs the
5:22
program for interviews and so they they they work individually, they work as groups. Um, and then the training
5:29
program is is quite substantial as well. So, the the people who work in the Reds team, they're they're really talented.
5:35
And they really are the face of the company. I suppose it's if you know something about Butland, you know that
5:40
they're the red coats. Well, it it it matters to us. And the reason that the the reason we we cherish
5:46
and and hang on to those guys is because when you listen to what our guests tell
5:52
us when they spend time talking to Red Coast, they're like the embodiment, the personification of what Butlands is. And
5:59
and we see it in in data. If we look at it from a datadriven point of view, we see that the people who score us the
6:05
highest in terms of their satisfaction, they they always refer to interaction with team and particularly red coats and
6:10
that they the kids love them and that that's that that's something that we really cherish. So so therefore we have
6:15
to look after them and we have to train them really well. And when you got the job and then stayed at Butland for the first time, did you
6:21
have to go undercover uh not tell anybody that you're there so you could see it as as a normal guest would see it?
6:26
Yeah. Well, I went and stayed before I said yes to the job because I I I wanted to see what the whole place was about.
6:33
And so, so I really tried to get to know it and understand it when I when I went to stay. Uh what was interesting when I
6:40
started with the business though, my my kids are grown up and so I went on um a
6:47
one of our family weekends in the summer. We just opened a new pool down in Skaggnes which was f sorry down in Bogna which was fantastic and I wanted
6:55
to see and and and manage all of that. So so so I went in the pool and had a bit of a go in there and I'm like hang
7:00
on I I need to be a little bit careful here because I'm a 50-y old man and this is a family holiday. So so so that was
7:07
that was probably I leave that to the families to do the research around that. I spend time doing the doing the big
7:13
weekenders which is uh which is lots of fun. Yeah, I bet. Um, so grew up in
7:18
Blackpool, you've gone through the education system, obviously you bounced around in your career a little bit, been at Tesco's, run at uh run Travel Lodge.
7:26
Yeah. And then you came to Butland's from running Preso. That's right. How do you go from running an Italian
7:32
restaurant chain to running Butland? It it sounds like on the surface there might be uh a lack of connection there,
7:39
but for me I've always loved mass market well-known brands and particularly
7:45
British brands. So if you look through the work that I've done, whether it be uh Tesco or Travel Lodge or Preso or
7:52
where I am here, mass market British brands, value for money is something that's always resonated with me. I'd be
7:58
no good with a with a Louis Vuitton or something like that because it's just not my it's not my my type of working. I
8:05
like the fact that we're accessible. We're for everybody and and those brands have been like that as well and and this
8:11
one very much is that you know it's very much at the heart of the UK it's something that you if you
8:17
look at our demographic were exactly representative of the UK. So for me it
8:22
felt like a natural step and actually if you take retail, accommodation,
8:28
restaurants, bars, that type of thing, we've got all of those. So uh so so so
8:33
but is really just a culmination of of all the things that I've done like it was planned.
8:38
Yeah. Almost. What skills did you learn at Preso that
8:44
you then taken into this job? Now that's a classic interview question. It's like I'm interviewing you for the job.
8:49
Yeah. No, it's good. And actually the the critical ones are not consumerf
8:55
facing ones or particularly team ones. They're more to do with governance of a business. So
9:01
Presto at the time and and this isn't this isn't secret news but the casual dining sector at that period of time at
9:08
that period of time was having grave difficulties with over supply and people starting to spend a bit less and so
9:15
therefore governance was really important and that was difficult at the time. uh governance of a business is
9:21
really critical and how you show up as the CEO and also your relationship with
9:26
stakeholders whether that's non-execs uh or whether it's your banks or whoever that happens to be is really important
9:33
and we went through some interesting times at pres so I learned a lot from that which showed me the importance of
9:39
how we set that up here and that's been that's been good through our journey here now that we're standalone um that
9:45
we've got our own uh financial stakeholders uh and our own governance
9:51
helping to set that up. From my point of view, the learnings from that really came from Prezo. Yeah. Because there has been that
9:56
transformation in the last few years. That's right. In the ownership of Butlands. Talk to me about when you joined and
10:02
what the state of the company was. Um then obviously going through COVID and
10:07
then where it is now. Yeah, it was it was a story within a story if I look back to 2018 when I
10:13
joined because we were part of Born Leisure. Born Leisure was a really wellestablished family-owned business
10:18
across three brands with Haven and with Warner. And the
10:24
the business was wellrun. But within that at the time felt like to me it had
10:29
lost its way a little bit as to what it was trying to be and I don't think that message was coming across very clearly
10:36
from a consumer point of view. So what I wanted to try and make sure we did first of all was to be really really clear on
10:42
what Butland stood for. So what we were going to be and also what we weren't going to be. I think it's very important
10:47
with brand definition that you're clear on what you aren't as much as what you are. And I think that allows you to make
10:54
better decisions for your guests. And Bertland's what it is is a traditional British brand. And that you
11:00
said something earlier about that being a quality of the business that has attracted you to it. But I suppose it
11:07
can hold it back in a way, can't it? Because not everybody wants that from a holiday destination. and they want to go
11:13
abroad and yeah, you know, they've got maybe got an idea of what what Butlands is in their in their mind's eye.
11:18
Yeah. And and I I think Butland has a heritage. You know, we're 90 years old next year, but
11:25
if you look at the mission that Billy Butland was on right at the beginning, he was an innovator and a risk taker
11:31
from day one. All the things that he did were new. He brought new innovations to
11:36
the market. And I think what we've been trying to do is to really live that
11:41
spirit that he brought to the business back in the day. It's not just because the business has been around for a long
11:47
time, it doesn't mean we're not trying to innovate in what we do. And we we do that. If you look at our entertainment program across the course of this year
11:53
with Steven Molharn, with what we're doing with Mar Singer, with what we're doing with Gladiators, they're they're
11:59
three of the big four from Saturday Evening Entertainment. No one else is doing that. So I think we've we've tried
12:04
to really dial up the the the the spirit of innovation which which he
12:09
brought to the business. But you're right that there's definitely an element of people have a view in their mind's
12:15
eye about what a business might be and it's our responsibility to make sure we tell the story of now and it's your responsibility as the boss
12:21
to keep the brand going. It's been going for 90 odd years. Do you feel a sense of
12:26
responsibility more so than maybe a younger company? You don't want to be the CEO that's in charge of it when it
12:32
absolutely not. But you wouldn't want to be that anyway. You know, we've got nearly 4,000 people who work in our
12:38
business. I feel a tremendous sense of responsibility for the fact that that's people's livelihoods and how they show
12:44
up every day and how we look after them and um you know, how how we work together as a team. Because if we're
12:51
going to be for everybody and we're going to be accessible from a guest point of view, we've got to do the same
12:56
with our team as well. And we need to make sure that that that everybody who works here feels like that because if
13:01
they don't, how on earth are they going to be able to project that to our guests? It's it's not it just doesn't
13:07
doesn't work. So, I'm not sure if it's the age thing. It's just the responsibility of making sure that we've
13:13
got 4,000 people's livelihoods and their way of working and their general well-being at the heart of what we do. I
13:20
suppose in the supply chain and the local communities where you're based as well if you Butland was to collapse overnight.
13:26
Um that would have a knock-on effect as well. It's not just 4,000 jobs, is it? No, you're you're absolutely right. It's
13:32
it brings it brings to life the areas in which Butlands is in. And
13:39
from that point of view, we we like our relationship with the with the local area. And that's why we want to make
13:44
sure that we continue to recruit people and train people in those in those spaces. So, we've got some quickfire
13:49
questions for you now. John, are you ready? I am set.
13:55
[Music] What was your first job? I was a kitchen porter at a hotel in St.
14:01
Ans just near Blackpool and I earned 1 125 an hour which uh wasn't slave labor.
14:08
It was just the fact that I was old. So, it was uh yeah when I was 13.
14:13
13. Craigy, who inspires you? Yeah, that's a that's a really great question.
14:19
My team inspire me actually because when I say that the people that I work
14:25
with day in day out, which is the leadership team and the in in the brand, I love what they do because they're
14:31
always finding out new ways of doing stuff. I know you'll probably get an answer to this question, which is some person or some important figure and all
14:37
that type of stuff. But actually when I get up in the morning, it's those guys that I look at and say, "Bloody hell,
14:43
they've they've come to an answer and they've figured this out and they've solved this problem." And that that inspires me to get up and carry on doing
14:49
what I'm doing. Well, the PR team off camera are going to be very happy with that answer. So, well
14:54
done for that one. Um, if you had to appoint a celebrity to your board, it can't be Steven Mhan.
14:59
Okay. Who would it be and why? Can I cheat and give you two? Of course. For different reasons. So, the first one
15:06
would be Simon Kell. And the reason for that is entertainment. You know, he's
15:11
he's in that space and he knows what he's doing there. But I also like the fact that he's very blunt and very
15:16
direct. And I think in a governance environment like a board, you need
15:22
people who say what they think. And I I know we see him on TV and he he seems like some sort of pantoime villain, but
15:28
actually the way that he operates is just very direct. And I think it's very important to tell people what's working,
15:34
what's not. So that's that's one. at the moment, Serena Vman, um because she just
15:39
manages to find a way through with her people to get stuff done in tough circumstances. So, um you know, she'd be
15:46
great. I mean, this is going out after the women's Euro final. So, it's either that's that's a great answer because they won the Euros, retained them, or
15:52
they might be out of a job. Who knows? Well, but look, even even we'll see. We we'll see. the the route that they've
16:00
been through. Uh they're they're arguably the most successful sports
16:06
team, women's men's sports team in football over the last whatever period of time because you think about where
16:12
they've got to. They they've been they've been brilliant and they've transitioned through people and she's made tough decisions to get there. You
16:17
know, you think about what happened pre the tournament with Mary Hers and all the conversation around that. Hard
16:23
decisions and yet she's still got a team of people who are working working for each other. I think it's brilliant.
16:28
What's the best thing about your job, John? I love the fact that I go to work with people who are on holiday by the beach.
16:35
What's not to love about that? It's fantastic, isn't it? Because if you think about it, everyone wants that to work. Everyone likes that. And you know,
16:42
there are certain jobs that people that are certain services that that that people provide that people have to do,
16:49
which you know, I don't want to name anything in particular that isn't isn't isn't much fun. You know, I'm think I'm
16:55
thinking of my car insurance and stuff like that. that that's not part, you know, I get to go to work with people having fun every day. It's just it's
17:02
awesome. Yeah. Yeah. There's definitely worse things to do. Um, if you weren't doing this, what would you be doing?
17:08
So, I I think I'd probably be working at
17:14
business school doing lecturing because I I work with War Business School at the
17:19
moment to do a bit of that sort of stuff. Um, a couple of times a year with with the business school. Um, I' I'd
17:26
really like to be able to do that. And I think that, you know, sharing knowledge and getting people skilled up as much as
17:32
they can be, I think that would be that would be great. And finally, if you were prime minister for the day, what would you do?
17:38
Uh, I'm going to cheat again and say two things. If I do it from an industry point of view,
17:44
you know, let let's stop rinsing hospitality and let's start recognizing it for it being the third biggest
17:50
employer in the UK and the place where people often start and get their jobs and move forward and those type of
17:55
things. You know, last I I understand the government have got a difficult time at the moment from a balancing finance
18:01
point of view, but it felt like a tax on jobs that we did last year and we can see it already with the number of people
18:07
who've come out of hospitality. I think that's disappointing. I would do that on a wider level. I'd like to be able to
18:14
tell people the truth about the fact that we've got to make tough decisions between we we've got to we've got a
18:20
demography that says we can't just have fewer and fewer people paying tax and rinse them more and more. We need to
18:26
manage things differently and make some better choices than we have been doing. And I don't think we've specifically
18:31
told people the truth on that. So if I was there for a day, I'd like to have a day of truthtelling. That would be fun.
18:37
That would be good. Yeah. This is going to go out just before Rachel Ree delivers her second budget. Um, called
18:44
her up on the phone now. What would you be insisting that she included in that budget? So, that growth lever that they talked
18:51
about just before the election that was their number one focus, I'd like to see
18:56
that being their number one focus because we're not going to tax ourselves
19:02
to success. We need to make sure that we're able to stimulate growth. you know what I talked about before with the with the NIC's
19:09
attacks on jobs that those sort of things we need to be able to invest to grow our business to develop the
19:14
proposition to build skills for our team. I'd like to see more of that first
19:20
and foremost. Do you have confidence in Star and Ree and what they're doing? I I've yet to see something that says
19:27
we're going to pull that growth lever. So I I'm I'm I'm still a little bit a little bit jury's out at the moment. I
19:32
know they've got a difficult time to manage through, but I would like to see something that says we understand the
19:39
value of private business rather than just managing the public sector, which it feels like we're doing a lot of at
19:45
the moment. Uh, and I I would like to see something that
19:50
says we know the value of what you're doing and so therefore we're going to help you do more of it in difficult circumstances.
19:56
Yeah. in the budget last year. Of course, there was the employer contributions, national insurance contributions, and
20:01
various other taxes that hit businesses like yours. How has it been since they
20:07
came into effect? It's well, we we manage according. It's very hard and we see other businesses
20:14
that have been hit more, but from our point of view, we love the fact that in the areas that
20:20
we're in, people start working for us when they do their first job. So they might not be kitchen porters, but
20:25
they're certainly lifeguards. And they come and work with us on a Saturday when they're still at school. We train them up. They get a set of skills. They learn
20:32
how to work. And then they come back to us sometimes at university and their holidays and then come back and work for
20:38
us and so on and so on. It's just become very difficult to employ people at that age because the
20:43
incremental cost of doing that below the age of 18 is terrible and it feels like
20:50
a it feels like a real own goal. So that that's that's the bit that we found very difficult.
20:55
So would you like some of those measures that they introduced last year or suppose they came to effect in in April
21:00
this year to be res reversed? I that would be great. I don't think that will happen because realistically
21:06
um although although U-turning doesn't seem to be out of fashion at the moment um I I I think that it's probably
21:15
unlikely. So therefore, help me do a better job of employing young people,
21:20
giving them skills and giving them the opportunity to get on in their career in an area where I think we're we're we're
21:27
part of what the government priority is supposed to be. Things like, you know, coastal areas outside of London where um
21:34
we want to be able to develop skills and and and build build people's careers. Uh John, I would be remiss if I didn't
21:42
talk about Colleen Rooney. Okay. Um, we met up at the end of last year. Um, and we were talking about it
21:49
because she'd just been on I'm a Celebrity. Yes. And she mentioned Butllins and you had a huge spike in in interest in in the
21:56
brand at that point. How much did you pay Colleen Rooney to mention on Prime Time ITV?
22:01
No. Well, that the beauty with something like that and what she said was it feels
22:08
authentic. You can tell when people aren't being authentic about what they do. And that's what we love about what
22:14
she said. You see that with Romesh as well because he did the same sort of thing. Um Steven Molharn as well, you
22:20
know, he grew up as a red coat. That's that's what happened. He can sing and dance. You can he he can definitely sing and dance. He's a capable guy. Um
22:28
you see authenticity and you see inauthenticity as well. If we tried to say, you know what, George Clooney is a
22:34
real fan of Berlin and he's going to do our advert for us, it would fall flat because people are smart, right? And they see that. We we we didn't do that.
22:41
But it was it was brilliant from our point of view. This is the plus side of the of the double-edged sword of being
22:47
known by everybody, which is as soon as she does something like that, which we're delighted about and, you know,
22:53
she's welcome back whenever she likes. Yeah. Um then then people recognize it as something that we haven't just paid
23:00
for. It's something that's genuine. Yeah. I'm going to use this sort of example as a way into talking about
23:05
British snobbery, I suppose. Okay. Colleen Rooney's taken her kids to Butland before hammered in the tabloids
23:12
because they think, you know, she shouldn't be doing that sort of thing. You should be going to fivestar resorts, maybe abroad. But I think Butland,
23:20
whilst it is that British institution, a lot of people can look down on it. They'd never consider going to Butlands.
23:27
Um, be a bit snobbish about it, I suppose. How do you counteract that
23:33
negative perception? I suppose what we've tried to do and this was part of the brand strategy a few years ago is
23:40
to say what are we really proud of and what are we great at what can only but do and if
23:46
you look at the message that we go out with as the home of entertainment that's the thing that we're we're great
23:52
at and that's the thing that people really value from us and so I think the message is we're for everybody we're the
23:59
home of entertainment you can do everything that you want to do with but with your family big weekenders with
24:05
your friends. Uh, and uh, and it's a it's a great place to come and let your
24:12
hair down and spend time. And if you're not into that, that's fine. You can do
24:17
other things as well. That's what I meant before about what we are and what we're not.
24:22
I think the key for us in terms of getting the message across is the confidence in what it is that we're
24:27
doing. And I think we know enough from our guests who come to us. They tell us what they like and what they don't like.
24:33
and we try and address the stuff that they don't like, but they really like that bit about us and they they they
24:40
talk about that. And so for me, it's making sure that we have the confidence to say, "Look, this is what we do and
24:45
this is what we're great at. Own it." And we own it. And we're not apologetic about what we are. And nor should we be
24:51
because we do some brilliant stuff. And if it's, you know, if you're, you know,
24:56
going back to my point about me, which is I'm not going to work at Louis Vuitton because it's not my style of
25:01
thing and it's exclusive and it's it's just just not the way that I would
25:07
work. If you're bothered about status and labels and, you know, who who you're
25:15
who you're around and you know, I have to be sat here doing this and, you know, I have to I have to look like that on
25:22
social media. it's probably not for you. But that's fine. There's other stuff that you can do. And I don't I don't buy
25:27
the I don't buy the the the press story about someone like Colleen Rooney, for example, that says, "Well, you should
25:33
only be in fivestar hotels." Because if her kids love that and that works for
25:38
her, and she's focused on that mission, which is entertainment, which which she was,
25:44
then happy days. Why not? Yeah, absolutely. Um, let's talk about those big weekenders then because again
25:50
I suppose the the narrative of reception of Butlands is it's for families, for
25:56
young families maybe. Um, but you've really tried in the last few years to try and attract a younger age of guest.
26:04
Can Butlands ever be cool for millennials and Gen Zeds? Well, look at me because I'm not I'm not
26:10
Gen Zed. I'm not millennial. I don't mean I'm I don't mean I'm cool. Look at me. I'm not I'm not the I'm not the person to ask. However,
26:18
if you look at the the age range of the people that come to us, we we got a we got a massive range from from 19 through
26:25
to 70. And I think what's critical with the big weekender when we did the
26:30
research on the brand and what we were trying to do with it, we looked at the mission and the mission was keep me entertained, give me loads of things to
26:36
do, make sure that what I'm doing is very socialable, very outgoing, you know, it's not a relax and explore type
26:43
of thing, get away from it all, zen and yoga. that's not us. Uh the mission is
26:48
the same for the people who come on the big weekenders as it is for families. And we saw that quite quickly. And so
26:54
the aim was let's do something again that only Bolins can do and also that hits that mission which is sociable,
27:01
keep me entertained, give me loads of stuff to do. And it's it's resonated really well. And you know we we we were
27:08
doing 76 of those weekenders this year and the the the popularity is great.
27:14
What we found before was that people who came previously really liked it, but not everybody knew
27:21
about it. It was sort of the reverse of what we'd seen with with family. Everybody was aware of it, but there was some of the issues that you described
27:27
before. On this one, we just needed to tell more people about it. So, that's why you see all the adverts that we do. That's why
27:34
you see what we do with influencers. That's why you see the merch. So, we've got new merchandise with that as well.
27:39
So, we're really we're really bringing to life the the the big weekender part of the business. And it fits. It fits.
27:46
We wouldn't put them together. You want to do them at the same time, but the the blend works really well for
27:51
us. Yeah. And it it's obviously a big part of expansion of the business. What about physically expanding the
27:58
business? You got three sites at the moment. Would you add a fourth? We would definitely,
28:04
but it would be a few years further down the line really. you you can see from where the resorts are across uh the
28:11
country that there's definitely a space in the Northwest and that would be interesting over a period of time. You
28:18
know, we we're within two and a half hours drive of about 29 million of the population. Uh and and that's that's
28:25
pretty much what people are happy to do. We we miss that chunk in the in the Northwest, but at the moment we're still
28:32
developing the proposition in the existing resorts, bringing new things into play, you know, like Sky Park, like
28:37
Play Experience, all those things that we we've put into place in the last in the last year or so. We want to expand
28:44
that out in the existing resorts, but then definitely the space, and we'd be really interested to see what we can do
28:49
in the long term with with somewhere in the Northwest. Maybe a homecoming to Blackpool.
28:55
Blackpool's great, you know, that that could work really well. You know, it's very accessible. The road network's good. Um it's uh it's got a beautiful
29:02
beach, so so why not buy at one of the peers? There's a space there. Maybe take over the Black Tower.
29:08
Painted Butland's red, maybe. I'm not sure. I'm not sure how we uh I'm not sure how we accommodate people around Blackpool Tower. 500 and
29:14
something feet in the air. We probably won't do that bit. Well, you never know. You never know. Rule everything out. Come on. Um,
29:21
finally, John, uh, I always like asking this question. Um, what does it take to
29:27
be a good CEO? What the qualities that you think make up a successful GPS?
29:36
It it's a it's a great question because there's a level of complexity to this that makes it the the hardest job in the
29:43
world, but also the most most rewarding job in the world. I think you need to be able to blend a whole series of things.
29:49
First of all, I think initially you need to really believe in your product. So
29:55
you have to do something that that you really believe in. I think you have to have the confidence to get a very good
30:02
team around you. You see things in people where you think I couldn't do that. They're much better at that than I
30:09
could be. If if the answer is I know everything, then I've got it completely wrong. So you need to be brave enough to
30:16
bring people in who are better than you at stuff and I think you need to work quite hard on how you blend that team. I
30:23
think a lot about are we organized in the right way? Are we spending our time on the right things? You know, do we
30:29
have the right people in the room who are spend enough time disagreeing with each other? And so getting that team
30:36
together, getting the blend right and making sure that that team has the
30:42
confidence to say what they think and really bring themselves into into the room. We have we have loads of
30:47
disagreements as a group, but in a positive way because we we need to find the right answer. If everyone's the
30:52
same, it doesn't work. So I think I think that's important. And I think the other bit that's critical for me is that
31:00
I need to know the product really well. I need to be able to get into the resorts, meet the team, talk to them. I
31:07
couldn't do the undercover boss thing because I get around and I see people and I talk to them and I do videos every
31:12
month and I do do all of that type of stuff. So, that would make no sense. But, you've got to get in amongst it.
31:18
You've got to you've you've got to understand really clearly why your business ticks in the way that it does. There's still time for you to learn to
31:24
sing and dance and put on a red coat. I don't want to offend anybody in the business in that way by trying to get me
31:30
to I think they could teach me a bunch of things but probably not that. Fair enough. There's a good place to finish. John, thank you so much for
31:36
coming on board of Uncovered. Thank you. Great to see you. [Music]
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