Up next in 10
Charlie Rudd, CEO of Publicis Group's UK creative arm takes us inside the hidden chess game of sports advertising. He exposes how companies like Levi's and Guinness leverage "distinctive brand assets" to navigate strict FIFA and international regulations right in front of the audience's eyes without breaking a single rule.
We also break down the commercial reality behind modern football infrastructure, specifically, how highly unpopular "hydration breaks" are being transformed into the most lucrative, captive-audience advertising real estate in television history.
00:00 - The High Stakes of $8 Million Advertising
01:03 - Pooling Global Resources: Why Nike Spent Millions on Celebrity Bundles
02:16 - Host Nation Economics: Why the US is an Open Field for Brands
03:00 - The Subliminal Loophole: How Levi’s & SoFi Outsmart Exclusivity Rules
04:22 - The Guinness "Greatness" Case Study: Overcoming French Ad Bans
05:01 - Hydration Breaks: Player Welfare vs. Captured TV Audiences
06:18 - In-Game vs. Halftime: The Premium Cost of Captive Attention
06:57 - Challenger Brands: How Smaller Budgets Navigate Monopolized Spaces
07:54 - Adapting to HFSS: How the Industry Rewrites Its Marketing Blueprint
09:15 - Younger Audiences & Shared Experiences: The Myth of Brand Loyalty Erosion
10:23 - The Blind Spot Strategy: Launching Major Campaigns Away From the Football Fluff
11:41 - Nike's 6-Minute Gamble: Re-Engineering the Attention Deficit
13:26 - The UK vs. US Price Tag for Prime-Time Airtime
#BusinessBriefing #MarketingStrategy #CharlieRed #FIFAEconomics #Advertising #MediaInfrastructure #DistinctiveAssets
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0:00
You know, in many markets, you'll see Guinness written on the pitch
0:02
You won't in France, can't do alcohol advertising in France. And so what it says is the word greatness, but it looks very like the word Guinness
0:09
I know they're having hydration breaks when they don't actually need hydration. And as a fan, and actually for the flow of the game, you can see how irritating that is
0:15
As an advertiser, you go, what a great opportunity. I'd love you to level with the City AM audience
0:21
Super Bowl adverts go for millions. Seven million at one point. How much would it cost City AM to advertise during a hydration break in the World Cup final
0:30
Wow. Okay, in the final. So you're buying the UK audience. You're probably paying at least
0:34
Welcome to City AM Studios. I am here with Charlie Red, the CEO of Publicist Group's UK creative arm
0:41
Hi, Charlie. How are you doing? Very good. Thanks, Matt. Thanks for coming in. The World Cup's on and it's quite big, right
0:46
Yeah, it's actually started now. In some respects, I feel like it starts when England start playing
0:50
But yes, it did start a week or so ago. And there's 104 matches, three countries, three major markets
0:57
But really, it's not just a North American thing. It's a global thing. And in this world and in the world of advertising, it's an opportunity
1:04
Oh, it's massive. I mean, yes. I mean, it's always every four years, it's a massive peak for advertising
1:09
It's always a boon for the industry. I think it is quite a unique event, you know, that once every four years
1:15
because it obviously is the global game that every country in the world gets involved in
1:20
And I think the last World Cup, three billion people were watching it
1:24
So one in three of everybody in the world was watching the football. So, yeah, I mean, there's very, very few things like that that really you can reach so many people at one time
1:33
And I think you think of the Super Bowl and the celebs that get rolled out to do things like that
1:38
This is maybe the only other event where it's on that level. Yeah, and some. I think it's Super Bowl times five, times ten, whatever, because I think the number of celebrities that get involved
1:47
I mean, the advertising, there's such a justification for spending big on celebrities because you are reaching so many people
1:53
And so a lot of global brands will pull all their resources and go, we're going to make one piece of advertising that will run around the world
2:01
And that can justify, I think, I think the Nike piece of work that's running at the moment has got 30 different celebrities in it
2:07
Sports people and people like Kim Kardashian. And even for the Super Bowl, I don't think it could justify that kind of cast list
2:15
And does Kim Kardashian sell? Is she still popular for football fans
2:19
I think obviously the World Cup, obviously you're a sports journalist and obviously I'm a big football fan
2:25
I love football too and I love sport, but it's actually an entertainment event. This is entertainment. And I think the world can get caught up with celebrity and entertainment
2:36
Obviously, they co-exist very nicely. So, no, I mean, obviously, as a football fan, you're probably more interested in seeing Beckham or Thierry Henry
2:45
But I think it's the sprinkle of stardust and sprinkle of entertainment magic that people like Kim Kardashian bring to it
2:51
And I suppose you look at the last two World Cups, Russia, Qatar. Is there something about it being mostly in the United States that kind of lends itself to advertising
3:01
Well, it's interesting. I mean, I think the, I mean, obviously just the host nations are
3:06
as it were, much more all in for brands getting involved in everything
3:10
So, yes, I think it's much more of a sort of open field for that
3:15
I mean, obviously, FIFA is incredibly, strictly controls who actually are partners, who's actually able to claim
3:22
to be part of the World Cup. But that doesn't stop everybody else joining in and doing their bit
3:28
and joining in the sort of jamboree. And there something that been really interesting San Francisco Levi Stadium Yeah I think the SoFi in Los Angeles as well They obviously not allowed to call themselves that But Levi put over their logo a very very tight fitting sheet Everyone knows that batwing kind of logo Absolutely Absolutely Kind of free advertising for them And same with SoFi I think they put the thinnest possible sheet over the SoFi logo Yeah And that I mean and that you know one of the things that we talk a lot about in advertising is creating what we call distinctive brand assets DBAs and that is things that it recognisably the brand even if you can see the word the name I mean actually so what going on in the States
4:07
in those examples isn't actually anything new. I mean, if you watch the Rugby Six Nations
4:12
Guinness have been a big sponsor in the Six Nations for some time. And, you know, in many markets, you'll see Guinness written on the pitch
4:19
You won't in France because there's no, you can't do alcohol advertising in France
4:23
And so what it says is the word greatness, but it looks very like the word Guinness
4:27
And most people will think, oh, it's Guinness. So that's just a way of going, we're here, but we can't say we're here
4:34
So that is absolutely finding ways around those sort of rules, as it were
4:40
is exactly what you try to find. And obviously you want to stay within the rules, but at the same time there's nothing wrong with putting the word greatness on a pitch
4:47
And that Levi's example, is that kind of advertising at its peak
4:53
it's smart it's intelligent it's cost them very little to do that yeah i mean what i don't know
4:58
i mean again is whether they when they sponsored the stadium did they know it was going to be a
5:02
world cup venue and therefore actually the sorts they were thinking ahead they're right they're not their rights are excluded for that yeah no excluded but whether they knew there was a benefit to
5:09
exclude because with the stadium was going to host it and therefore you could get away with almost
5:13
the subliminal work there i mean i think that's the point though of having distinctive brand assets
5:17
is that you want people to be able to recognize your brand we talk about you know from 100 paces
5:22
even if they can't quite see it. They go, I recognise that colour. I recognise that shape
5:27
That reminds me of the brand. And a big talking point at this World Cup
5:30
is hydration breaks for the players, obviously. But it does present a pretty..
5:35
I think in America they're doing it. It presents a pretty good example for quarters and ad breaks during halves
5:41
I mean, highly unpopular with fans, but you must be licking your lips with this
5:45
It is funny because obviously, being a football fan, you do go, I can see how irritating they are
5:51
I mean, obviously, the player welfare is important. So that side of it does matter
5:55
But I know they're having hydration breaks when they don't actually need hydration. And as a fan and actually for the flow of the game, you can see how irritating that is
6:03
Yeah. But as an advertiser, you go, what a great opportunity. And, you know, it's another almost moment for in-game advertising
6:10
Obviously, you can't on the BBC, but you can on ITV. But but also, you know, as again, as a sports fan, that's nothing new in terms of cricket
6:18
It has had hydration breaks for some time. And hydration breaks, if you're watching the cricket
6:21
is always sponsored normally by a water. And then if you're watching Sky
6:25
there's been an opportunity for them to go to a break. And obviously there's an advertising opportunity there
6:30
So yes, it is new for football and therefore it's an exciting opportunity in the game
6:35
But it's not, from an advertising point of view, it's just another opportunity that we've sort of
6:40
it's a bit like half-time advertising. It's just another one of those. But on that, what impact does it have
6:46
being able to do an in-game ad versus a half-time ad when people maybe are going to put the kettle on
6:51
or get a beer from the fridge? There's always a premium for the in-game. I mean, because there's always an assumption
6:56
that not everybody has rushed out of the room. And then actually, because people will stay for a bit
7:01
of the ysis that they might see from the pundits, etc. So there is always a premium on being in-game
7:09
because you are pretty sure most people are still going to be there in front of their TV
7:14
So, yeah, yeah, I mean, it is worth fighting for. And is this World Cup proof that kind of the big legacy brands
7:22
the Nikes, the Adidas, the Budweiser, the AB and Bevs, are they still holding court here
7:28
Are they still the big players? They've got the money to burn and kind of make moves
7:32
Yeah, I mean, there is a bit of a sort of, there was a bit of a natural selection in some respects that
7:37
you know, to play at the real scale, you do have to have quite significant budgets
7:41
You know, if you are really gonna almost feel like you've made your mark and own your bit
7:47
of the, and be the dominant beer in this World Cup, you've gotta have significant budgets
7:51
And that is a bit self-selecting in terms of who can play that game. I think it an opportunity when the big brands do that for the challenger brands to go we not gonna play there we gonna play in a different place Or you know so what their solution It probably not to try and get the in advertising because they going to get priced out of that But they can find some smart things
8:09
And TV advertising, obviously, even for the Nikes and Adidas, they won't just be doing TV advertising
8:14
There's so much in social, so much in terms of looking for PR coverage
8:19
So there's not just about the TV ad. But I think, yes, I mean, there is a bit of self-selection
8:25
where if you haven't got the big budgets, you're probably not going to be in the big games
8:29
And I suppose it's a year out now, and maybe not related to this World Cup, but the next one
8:34
Social media bans, etc. How does that impact how an advertiser advertises them where
8:39
Obviously, if you've got a huge teen audience, you're losing a huge access point
8:43
Yeah, I mean, it hasn't obviously got past yet, but it's likely to get past, I think, the end of this year, beginning of next
8:49
And so, yeah, I mean, obviously, one of the things about being in a creative business
8:53
you're always trying to find what's the creative solution to this situation. But, you know, for example, just a couple of years ago, we've been working with the new regulations around what the government call less healthy foods
9:05
So we now have restrictions about when we can advertise certain types of food on TV and also restrictions online in terms of it appearing online
9:14
And that didn't used to be the case two or three years ago. So we've adapted as an industry to when we can advertise those things post nine o'clock, et cetera, et cetera
9:22
So it's just it's just another thing to think about when you're building your marketing plan
9:25
But it will definitely change. The next World Cup will definitely change what you see on your social feeds
9:30
I suppose if I look at a TV at halftime on an advert, I'm not necessarily going to go and buy one
9:34
No. Do you think the kind of fast food, but also the social media
9:38
those kind of trends have an impact on younger audiences? Do you think they care as much as their parents
9:44
About brands? About brands. Is there that affinity to loyalty as there used to be
9:50
Yeah, I think so. I think brands, I mean, again, brands are shared experiences
9:54
And I think that's one of the things that, you know, there are things in life that show we recognize each other and why we rate that or don't rate it
10:04
And that's almost more true in young people than older people, really
10:09
It's just the ways of reaching them and the ways of persuading them are just slightly different. But no, so I think there is
10:15
I mean, it's just slightly different channels. But I think one of the things that, you know, brands are shared experiences
10:21
They're what collectively we think about stuff. So if I'm only getting a bit of one-to-one communication, that's all I get on something
10:28
I don't know. I have no other external validation on whether that's a good thing to buy or not
10:32
So that sense of other people consuming it. And that's exactly why in the World Cup, you know that in the England game at halftime, a lot of people are going to be watching that
10:41
So if it's making a statement about a brand, we're all sort of feeling it
10:46
Or we might all go, I disagree with that. I think that's rubbish. but you know there's a collective sense around those brands
10:53
So that's what we're building for really around these big moments like the World Cup
10:57
And I suppose during half-time for England games and Scotland games when they're not two in the morning, what kind of brands do you think we're going to see
11:04
Is it the partners who are with England? Is it M&S Food or Pepsi or whatever
11:08
Or is it going to be those brands who want to get in on that act? Well, I think it's really interesting because I think obviously naturally
11:14
there's lots of people who are partners of England or partners of FIFA
11:18
so they will be all trying to get into the ad breaks because they've spent a lot of money
11:23
for those partnerships. But equally, there are brands will have nothing to do with football
11:28
to go, this is a great moment to launch a new campaign. So I know some of our clients
11:34
launching new campaigns in the England games because they know there's a lot of people going to be watching that. It's not about the football, it's about I'm getting eyeballs
11:40
for my new messaging. And actually in some respects there's an argument which is it'll
11:44
be one of the few ads that hasn't got David Beckham kicking football in it. So they're
11:48
actually you know it's there actually is quite a useful platform to do whatever other messaging
11:52
you are getting to a lot of people and as I say it might be just a break from all the all the football
11:57
comms but so so no I think I think it it more about the the reach you can get from these this programming that what attractive clearly if you invested in the teams and you a partner of the teams you then trying to activate that and it would be a missed opportunity
12:12
if you don't go into the Scotland game, if you're M&S, and similarly in the England game. Penultimately then, what are you seeing at this World Cup
12:18
What are you looking at that's making you think that's interesting? You know, we're a creative industry
12:25
and I think what people are always trying to do is do something that's not done before
12:30
and outdo what they've seen last year, last time, or what the competitors have done
12:35
So I think you're always looking for sort of innovation. I mean, I think one of the things that's genuinely extraordinary
12:40
to be happening now, I mean, obviously, there's a scale and a breadth of campaigns
12:45
which used to be just almost you do a bit of TV, you do a bit of a poster, do some press work
12:50
and a bit of radio, and that would be it. But now, obviously, a campaign is so much bigger
12:53
with all the social and all the cut-downs, everything you're seeing everywhere. It's much more sort of almost comprehensive
13:00
That's happening. But I think what I find interesting is actually even in the old world, though, in what we call the linear world of TV, the traditional TV, you're seeing people like Nike doing a six-minute TV film
13:12
And that's never been done before. And it's almost like it goes against everything you thought
13:16
I thought, oh, no, everything needs to be six seconds or ten seconds because we don't pay attention anymore
13:21
But there's Nike going, no, we're just going to go really big and do a six-minute film
13:25
and I think that's interesting I mean for a start regulations wouldn't have let you do that a few
13:29
years ago but but it's interesting to go no and we think if we make it entertaining enough we can
13:33
hold people's attention for six minutes and is that an audience saying we demand higher quality
13:37
stuff and if you give it to us we'll we'll consume it yeah I think that's right I think if it's good
13:42
enough I think that's always I mean you know I work in an industry where everybody wants to avoid
13:46
what I do that's they we are we are the interruption so we've got to earn the right to be
13:53
consumed and so you put a massive premium on entertainment and engagement and i think in that
13:58
example that is paid off and and finally then i'd love you to level with the city am audience
14:05
superbowl adverts go for millions yeah seven million at one point earlier this year how much
14:11
would it cost city am to advertise during a hydration break in the world cup final wow okay
14:17
in the final i think i mean obviously although it's a global event you buy locally so so you're
14:23
sort of you know you're you're you know if you're doing a deal you're dealing with it itv from the
14:26
uk um obviously you still can't do the bbc which is absolutely as it should be but so you're you're
14:32
committing you're doing it on itv um so uh so you're buying the uk audience so so no but in
14:39
terms of you're you're probably paying at least half a million million pounds for a 30 second spot
14:44
um which is sort of 10 times what you'd be paying normally so and how much would that be if you were
14:48
buying the North American equivalent. Well, no, that is more Super Bowl territory
14:54
That's when you're paying like sort of seven, eight million dollars for a spot. So yeah, yeah, that is, yeah
14:58
And then you are, assuming that is the US still interested in the World Cup when they get knocked out
15:03
Oh, of course, yeah. But I'm assuming, because I know they think they might win it
15:08
which they might, but I think, but it does actually in the US
15:15
seems to have got taken hold in a way that almost could get them Super Bowl
15:18
viewing figures, I imagine. Whereas that obviously that wouldn't be in the case
15:22
20 years ago. I suppose that's down to the fact that they're winning, but also Donald Trump
15:27
and everyone's kind of made it such a thing that it's now, you've got to watch it. And it has become a sort of
15:31
as I say, I think the thing the Americans obviously do really well and obviously it's in Canada and Mexico as well
15:35
but the Americans particularly is they know how to do entertainment. They really know how to
15:39
And this is a massive entertainment programme. Yeah. Well, look, thanks for coming in
15:43
and I hope you enjoyed the World Cup. I don't know whether you've got a sweepstake, but... You have, but it's very unlikely
15:48
to come good. But at the same time, I'm weirdly feeling, I shouldn't be saying this publicly
15:56
but I'm feeling confident about England's chances. Amazing. Well, thank you for coming in. Cheers. Cheers
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