"I was a Citibank Director doing 30g of Coke a week" | Mentoring Gary Stevenson while Spiralling

0:00
I was caught because I've done a ton of
0:02
cocaine. I'd go to Citibank and this is
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my truth. I'm not proud of any of this,
0:06
but this is this is fact. So, at the end
0:08
of my time at Citibank, I got a drug
0:11
dealer would
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turn up at 9:00 every morning. So, I
0:14
didn't phone him. I didn't ring him. It
0:15
was just, you know, on schedule. So, I'd
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be sitting at Citibank, Canary Wharf,
0:20
you know, second floor and I'm a
0:21
director of the bank. I mentored Gary
0:23
when he came onto the desk. He was a
0:25
young kid and he's from East London and
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I thought that I'm going to look after
0:28
this guy because he's not our normal
0:30
run-of-the-mill graduate. And I thought
0:32
he's a young kid and I was a bit hard on
0:33
him at the end and he said, "Oh, so you
0:35
were drug ads. What? You're using
0:37
cocaine?" I said, "Mate, I sat beside
0:38
you to get 3 grams delivered at 9:00
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a.m. every morning."
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>> Money,
0:42
power, success, drugs, and redemption.
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It's quite a narrative arc and I'm
0:48
joined
0:49
by the person whose story that might be,
0:51
Kent Bray. Kent had a very long career
0:54
in the City of London and a very dark
0:57
struggle with drug addiction as well.
0:59
And now, Kent helps other people as a
1:02
counselor and mentor.
1:04
And he's here in the City A.M. studio to
1:06
talk about that. Kent, thanks for coming
1:08
in.
1:09
>> Good to see you, Christian.
1:10
>> I'm going to just set the scene by
1:13
telling people why it is you've come
1:14
back on my radar in particular and it's
1:16
not just because I've seen you more and
1:18
more on LinkedIn through the work that
1:20
you're now doing as a counselor.
1:23
But, when I started to see your name
1:25
popping up on LinkedIn,
1:27
I thought, I know that name.
1:29
And the reason I know that name is
1:31
because
1:33
in 20, I think it was 2013,
1:36
you were my landlord.
1:37
Some friends
1:39
and me rented an apartment from you in
1:41
Westminster, where we had a lot of fun
1:44
over the next few years.
1:46
And we met you when you were showing us
1:48
around it and you were telling us about
1:50
how much fun we could have there. And I
1:52
remember you and we we all remembered
1:53
you as being great fun, larger than
1:55
life.
1:56
and that was about 2013.
2:00
But we now know, cuz you've been very
2:02
open about it and it's part of your work
2:04
now, that just a couple of short years
2:06
after that, a few years after that,
2:08
you were in rehab.
2:10
>> Correct.
2:10
>> Clearly, when we met, you were on the
2:13
road to some sort of crisis.
2:17
What happened?
2:18
>> Okay, so, yeah, 2013,
2:21
um and I do remember you guys and
2:24
I had my girlfriend at the time and I,
2:27
we had two children, and our daughter,
2:30
Florence, had just arrived, so we moved
2:31
out to Essex. And so, that meant we
2:34
bought a house in Essex, where she's
2:35
from, and um
2:37
so, the flat was to be rented.
2:39
And you guys turned up, and um
2:42
I do remember, one thing I remember was
2:44
I was actually somewhat envious, in the
2:46
sense I thought, "Oh god, you know,
2:48
these three young guys got this
2:50
beautiful apartment right on the river."
2:53
And also, you know, you talk about my
2:55
energy,
2:56
I'm 20 years older than you, at least, I
2:58
think. But anyway, um
3:01
I remember at the time thinking, "God,
3:03
these guys, you know, they're going to
3:05
have a lot of fun here. They're starting
3:07
their careers." And I just It was just a
3:10
It was just a feel-good story, and I was
3:12
like, you know,
3:13
you know,
3:14
renting the flat out to you guys. But
3:15
the truth was,
3:17
um
3:18
that was 2013 and 2016,
3:21
I went into rehab uh for cocaine
3:24
addiction.
3:25
So, I'd say I used coke for about 20
3:28
years, and the first 10 years it was
3:30
nothing really to write home about. I
3:32
just used it very, very sparingly.
3:34
Not least of all because I was playing
3:36
rugby. Um
3:38
>> So, before your city career, you were a
3:40
professional rugby player, Harlequins,
3:41
and I'd say And you were using cocaine
3:44
during your rugby career as well.
3:45
>> Sorry. I'll correct that. I started
3:47
using coke uh when I was assistant coach
3:50
at Harlequins. So, as a first team
3:52
player, I came over from Australia.
3:55
1991, I came over to Australia to play
3:56
rugby. I had a law degree in Australia.
3:59
I was a lawyer.
4:00
And I didn't want to be a lawyer
4:02
anymore. Um and I'd played Australian
4:04
under 21s. I'd played for Queensland,
4:05
played for New South Wales, played
4:07
against the British Lions. All this
4:09
reasonably um high achievement in rugby.
4:12
Worked out I wasn't going to play for
4:13
the full Australian team. Went to Oxford
4:15
University.
4:17
Um got a diploma there, Oxford Blue.
4:19
Ended up at Harlequins player coach. And
4:22
the first line of cocaine was at
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Harlequins when I was an assistant coach
4:26
uh with a with a a business person. So,
4:29
then fast forward, you know, 22 years in
4:32
the city.
4:34
Um and I ended up a director of
4:36
Citibank. Uh senior foreign exchange
4:38
trader. So, when I met you,
4:41
I believe that I was just transitioning.
4:46
I was I think I was in my last year at
4:49
Citibank.
4:50
And at that point, my cocaine use had
4:53
gone from the first 10 years
4:56
sparingly, weekends.
4:59
But at the end, I was doing and you
5:01
asked me before this interview, were
5:03
there any no-go areas on on any of this
5:06
stuff? And I said, "No."
5:07
Because I want to be absolutely 100%
5:10
transparent and honest and truthful
5:13
because
5:14
the story here is that if I can overcome
5:17
what I overcame, then people can
5:19
overcome their debilitating issues and
5:21
challenges.
5:23
So, when I met you,
5:25
I had about 3 years to go for my cocaine
5:28
use. And in those 3 years, I dropped.
5:31
When I saw you, I probably was about 13
5:34
stone.
5:36
And in the next 3 years, I I'd already
5:39
lost about a stone through cocaine use,
5:41
not eating.
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So, when I saw you, it was probably
5:46
um the start of the absolute spiral. So,
5:50
I dropped a stone a year for the next 3
5:53
years, and I went into rehab on the um,
5:56
6th of April, 2016. So, I met you about
5:59
2013.
5:59
>> And when we met you in 2013, you were
6:03
Would you say that looking back that you
6:04
were obviously on the cusp of of of
6:07
spiraling at that point? Did you feel at
6:08
that point that you were flying high?
6:10
That you were doing well at work? That
6:11
your coke use was under control? You
6:13
didn't sense that things were going
6:15
wrong at that point?
6:16
>> No, I did. I did. I And I knew that um,
6:20
So,
6:22
what I I knew that I had a problem. When
6:25
I saw you guys, and this is it's so
6:27
interesting you saying to me, "Oh, we
6:29
met you know, you seem like this really,
6:31
you know, larger than life character and
6:33
very friendly and everything." And these
6:36
were the masks and the role-playing and
6:38
the acting that I was going through.
6:41
But inside I was crushed. You didn't
6:43
know that. You know, um,
6:46
Andy didn't know it. Harry didn't know
6:48
it. You know, the three of you. You You
6:49
saw this Australian guy and da da da da
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da.
6:52
But inside I had this deep dark secret.
6:55
And the problem I had was that because
6:57
of all the achievement with rugby and
7:00
director at City Bank and Oxygenie and
7:03
all these labels and badges,
7:05
I had this public profile,
7:08
right? But I had a major major problem.
7:11
And because of my ego and pride and
7:14
shame,
7:15
guilt, shame, remorse, embarrassment, I
7:18
didn't seek help.
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So, today I want to be the person that I
7:24
wanted to speak to 25 years ago. And I'm
7:27
saying to people, "Don't do what I did."
7:29
So, I because of my guilt, shame,
7:31
remorse, embarrassment, I could present
7:33
to you
7:34
as a prospective tenant, and you're
7:36
telling me, "Oh, yeah, I saw you in
7:37
2013. What a Yeah, great guy and really
7:39
friendly." or whatever. Little did you
7:41
know that I had a habit that was out of
7:44
control.
7:45
I knew it was out of control. I didn't
7:47
want to put my hand up and ask for help.
7:49
And little did I know that the next 3
7:52
years were going to be car crash.
7:55
>> And how bad did it get?
7:58
>> [gasps]
7:58
>> Okay, so
8:00
um in the end I was doing 20 to 30 g of
8:03
cocaine a week.
8:05
So some days I was doing 5 and 6 g of
8:07
coke.
8:08
>> Are you still working at this point?
8:09
>> Well, I left City Bank. Funny you say 20
8:11
2013 I met you, 2014. I'll tell you a
8:14
story about 2013 in a second about
8:16
trading story. 2014 I went to City Bank
8:19
and said
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um look I you know I I'm cooked. Um I
8:24
want to is there any voluntary
8:26
redundancies going? And I'd been at the
8:27
bank 18 years and they said look, do you
8:30
hang around for another couple of years,
8:31
you get 20 years, you get all these
8:33
shares, you get this that and the other.
8:34
And I said no, I'm out. And the reality
8:37
was
8:38
I were yeah, I was cooked because I was
8:40
doing a ton of cocaine.
8:43
So I'd be I'd go to City Bank. And this
8:45
is my truth. I'm not proud of any of
8:46
this, but this is this is fact.
8:49
So at the end of my time at City Bank I
8:51
got a drug dealer would
8:54
would turn up at 9:00 every morning. So
8:56
I didn't phone him, I didn't ring him.
8:57
It was just you know on on on schedule.
9:02
So I'd be sitting at City Bank, Canary
9:03
Wharf
9:04
you know, second floor and I'm a
9:06
director of the bank. I'm running the
9:07
biggest foreign forward foreign exchange
9:09
book on the desk.
9:11
And a lot of responsibility, a lot of
9:13
expectation, a lot of pressure. And I'm
9:15
a senior trader and I'm going and my
9:17
phone would go you know, ping ping.
9:19
You know, I'm here.
9:20
>> The dealer would come to work.
9:21
>> Yep. So I go down Canary Wharf, you
9:24
know,
9:25
second floor, big shiny building, City
9:27
Bank with the big logo on top. And I'd
9:30
go downstairs, jump in the lift, go
9:31
downstairs, jump in the car, drive
9:32
around the block, give him 200 quid and
9:34
get 3 g of coke.
9:36
And I'd just use all that.
9:38
And there was some days I'd get some for
9:39
the way home.
9:41
And don't forget I, you know, this is
9:43
the stuff I've the shame I've had to
9:44
deal with. I had two kids.
9:46
And uh my my ex-girlfriend, you know,
9:49
what it's I'm going home to Essex. Um
9:53
two gorgeous children and
9:55
the worst possible version of myself,
9:57
and I'm crushed.
9:59
I'm crushed. And so,
10:02
you know, people go, "How did anyone not
10:04
know?" And
10:05
you know, I
10:06
Gary Stevenson, which you know, we'll
10:08
may touch on later. Gary
10:09
>> we will, cuz Gary Stevenson is
10:11
reasonably well known to City A.M.
10:13
viewers. And we we don't always talk
10:15
about him in the most glowing terms
10:16
here, [laughter] but that's a matter of
10:18
of policy and economics. But I know you
10:20
know him, and you you crop up in his
10:22
book, and it it's not a very flattering
10:24
portrait of you. And we'll let's come on
10:26
to him. But you were about you were
10:28
about to mention him in this context.
10:29
>> Yeah, so Gary wrote a book,
10:32
and the only reason he wrote all that
10:35
stuff about me in his book. And I'm not
10:36
having a go at Gary here, by the way.
10:37
We'll get on to him later, but about the
10:39
book. He wrote a great book. When I say
10:41
a great book, it's very, you know,
10:42
enlightening to anyone who's not been in
10:44
that situation.
10:45
I caught up with him one day. I was
10:47
about 5 years, maybe not Yeah, 5 years
10:50
clean sober. And I hadn't spoken to him
10:52
for ages, and I caught up with him, and
10:54
I said, "Let's go and have a burger."
10:57
We sat down, and he said, "Oh, what do
10:59
you want to drink?" I said, "I'll just
10:59
get a soft drink." It was a lunchtime,
11:01
and I'd retired I'd semi-retired, and he
11:04
he'd left Citibank. We're just catching
11:05
up.
11:06
>> [clears throat]
11:07
>> And I said to him, he said, "Oh, not
11:09
drinking?" I said, "No, mate, I don't
11:10
drink anymore." He said, "How come?" I
11:11
said, "Look, I have something I want to
11:12
tell you."
11:13
I said, "I was a drug addict."
11:15
And he said, "When?" I said, "Mate, when
11:16
you were sitting beside me."
11:18
I mentored Gary. When he came onto the
11:20
desk, he was a young kid, and he was
11:22
from, you know, the East End, and
11:25
I thought, "This I'm going to look after
11:27
this guy, because he's he's not our
11:29
normal run-of-the-mill graduate.
11:31
And I don't want anyone to take the piss
11:32
out of him.
11:33
And so we got close. Uh Uh we weren't so
11:35
close at the end because
11:37
of some stuff. And um I said, "Look, I
11:40
was a bit hard on you at the end. I want
11:42
to make an amends to you." So, an amends
11:45
I'm not going to go into this too deep
11:46
cuz I don't want to derail us, but I did
11:48
a 12-step program through Narcotics
11:50
Anonymous, and step nine is to make
11:51
amends to people that you've hurt in
11:54
your addiction, right? And for some
11:55
unknown reason, Gary came to mind. And
11:58
then I thought, "He's a young kid, and I
12:00
was a bit hard on him at the end."
12:02
And he said, "Oh, so you were drug
12:03
addict? What? You were using cocaine?" I
12:05
said, "Mate, I sat beside you and get 3
12:07
g delivered 9:00 a.m. every morning." He
12:09
said, "When I sit beside you?" I said,
12:10
"Mate,
12:11
I said I was off my head."
12:13
>> What is it about that environment? And
12:15
we're going back 10 years, you might
12:16
have a view on how things have changed
12:18
or not. Um and it's not a reflection on
12:20
on Citibank in particular, but
12:22
culturally
12:23
people watching this and listening to
12:24
this will think, "If I sat next to
12:27
someone at work for years who every day
12:29
was doing 3 4 g of coke, I'd know about
12:32
it." What is it about that environment
12:34
where people
12:35
as far as you say or are aware didn't
12:37
know about it?
12:38
>> Okay. Two things. First and foremost,
12:41
you got to remember me in the sense of I
12:44
I was
12:45
absolutely gripped with shame.
12:48
So, I was going to all lengths possible
12:50
to ensure no one knew.
12:52
When I went into rehab
12:54
in 2016, two people on the planet knew.
12:57
My ex, and she wasn't exactly too
12:59
enamored with me at the time,
13:01
and a business partner.
13:02
No one. My parents, my best mates, my
13:05
brother, no one knew. So, if you come
13:08
back scrap like that backwards if
13:10
they're the words. At Citibank, I
13:11
thought, "I can't I'm I'm KB. I'm this
13:15
moniker. I'm KB.
13:17
Harlequins.
13:18
Oxford.
13:19
You know, knows Will Carling, knows you
13:21
know, da da da da whatever, right? This
13:23
achiever. And had a record of making
13:25
track record of making
13:26
>> You were making serious money for the
13:28
bank and for you for yourself.
13:29
>> Yeah. So, on the desk on the floor, I
13:32
was a sort of Listen, I don't want my
13:33
ego to get out of control here, but I
13:35
was an identity, right? And I was
13:38
protecting that identity at all costs.
13:39
So, the the two As it to your question,
13:42
it's twofold. One, I was going to
13:43
extreme lengths
13:46
to maintain my secrecy. And the other
13:48
thing is that profile was so strong
13:52
that when I got clean and sober, I took
13:54
a few of the guys that I used to work
13:55
with for lunch one day,
13:57
Canary Wharf, and um
14:00
I was about 2 years clean and sober, and
14:01
and they said, "Man, you look well."
14:04
I said, "Guys, look, I've got to tell
14:05
you something. I've been to rehab." And
14:06
they said, "What for?" You got to
14:08
remember, these guys were sitting beside
14:10
me, and they're asking what for.
14:12
Hence was my secrecy. And I said,
14:14
"Cocaine addiction." And they said, "You
14:16
were using coke on the on the floor?" I
14:18
said, "Every day."
14:20
Right? And they And I said, "Can I ask a
14:22
question?"
14:23
Um what the I'm trying to not swear, but
14:25
I said, "What the Like, do you think was
14:27
going on? What do you think was going on
14:28
when I lost all that weight?" And they
14:30
said, "Oh, we just thought you were
14:31
overtraining. We thought you might have
14:32
been doing triathlons or something."
14:35
So, they were sort of looking at the
14:36
weight loss and fitting that to the
14:38
narrative of of my persona down the
14:41
years.
14:42
And I would go to extreme lengths to
14:45
for the secrecy. That's the first part.
14:47
The second part is that
14:50
Christian, I left City Bank 2000, I
14:52
think 2014. So, we're talking 12 years
14:55
ago.
14:55
From what I gather,
14:58
the workplace has changed a lot, whereas
15:00
I don't think you can get away with that
15:01
now. I think people are a little bit
15:03
more I think organizations are a little
15:06
bit
15:07
more on alert to around mental health.
15:10
>> Yeah, around mental health, around
15:13
well-being.
15:14
>> Correct.
15:14
>> And around their sort of duty of care to
15:16
to people who work there. But it I mean,
15:18
there is a cliché about the city and
15:20
coke, and it you know, it stretches back
15:22
to the '80s, but
15:24
and and people won't be stunned to know
15:26
that there's still quite a lot of it
15:27
flying around the city and and in Canary
15:29
Wharf, but there's a I guess there's a
15:31
difference between people who just
15:33
choose to do a few lines of coke at the
15:35
end of the week, which people, you know,
15:38
certain people may or may not bat an
15:39
eyelid at, versus somebody who is doing
15:42
it with such regularity and has become
15:44
so skilled at concealing it that they
15:47
can get away with that.
15:48
>> Yeah.
15:48
>> And it and if you're if you're Is there
15:50
a a part of you that if you're
15:51
successfully convincing all the people
15:54
in your life that you can you're holding
15:56
it together and there's no problem, is
15:57
that also a way of convincing yourself?
15:59
>> Yeah. Yeah, it is. That's very well
16:01
said, actually.
16:02
You know, the addiction is man, it's
16:05
horrible. I
16:06
mean,
16:07
alcoholism, substance abuse, addiction
16:10
is brutal. It's brutal. I mean, I lost I
16:14
I sent you those photographs.
16:16
I was 10 stone. And when I went into
16:18
rehab, I, you know, I I did three or
16:20
four grams of coke the night before I
16:22
went into rehab. So, I was bouncing
16:24
around on day one in rehab. Good day,
16:25
mate. How you going? KB, you know, you
16:27
used to play for Harlequins. Yeah.
16:28
>> Why did you go? Why after so sort of
16:31
successfully concealing this problem,
16:33
what led you to rehab?
16:36
>> Uh 2015 Rugby World Cup. So, I went into
16:38
rehab April 2016. So, rewind November
16:41
2015. The Rugby World Cup is on here in
16:44
England.
16:45
Some guys came across from Australia who
16:48
we go to the Rugby World Cup every four
16:49
years.
16:50
We've been doing this since 1997.
16:53
And they saw me and they were like
16:55
shocked
16:56
at how I looked, skeletal.
16:58
And like they said, have you got AIDS?
17:00
You know, have you got cancer? And they
17:02
were asking seriously
17:04
cuz I looked so poor.
17:06
And um
17:07
alcoholics and addicts
17:09
by nature are deceitful, dishonest,
17:11
manipulative, and they lie.
17:13
And I and and I deflect massively. So, I
17:15
said, yeah, no, I'm fine. I'm fine. I've
17:17
got And then I said, "Look, I've you
17:19
know, a lot of stress and
17:20
They said, "Mate, we're going to have an
17:21
intervention." I said, "What for?" I
17:23
said, "Listen, I'm fine. Get off my
17:24
back. Leave me alone."
17:25
Anyway, then we went out at night and I
17:28
used to started getting a sense of how
17:30
much I was doing.
17:32
All right. And then they started you
17:34
know, seriously worrying about whether I
17:35
was going to have a heart attack.
17:38
Two of the guys that went back to
17:39
Australia told me that when they got on
17:40
the plane after the World Cup final to
17:42
go back to Australia, they actually sat
17:43
on the flight back to Australia. One of
17:45
them said, "Listen, I think we better
17:46
get used to the idea we might not be
17:48
seeing KB ever again."
17:50
on the trajectory.
17:52
But this guy called Troy Coker, I've
17:54
told the story many times. He gets a bit
17:56
embarrassed by it, but there we go.
17:57
He
17:58
He is Troy's about 6'6", you know,
18:01
depending on whether he's playing or not
18:02
playing. 16, 17, 18, 19, 20 stone,
18:05
second rower.
18:06
Uh mildly psychotic.
18:08
Someone might say he's quite violent at
18:10
times. But a great mate. And he won a
18:13
World Cup for Australia in 19 91. Went
18:15
to three World Cups. Like, quite well
18:17
known. But a really good friend of mine.
18:20
And we were walking through South
18:21
Kensington a couple of days before the
18:22
World Cup final.
18:24
And he he put his arm around me, which
18:26
is unlike Troy.
18:28
And he said, "Mate, please. Please.
18:31
You've got You've got to get
18:32
professional help. You've got to get
18:33
professional help.
18:35
And um you're not you're not listening
18:37
to us and you are you're going to die,
18:39
all right?"
18:40
And I was quite taken back at the
18:43
comment, all right? Externally, in my
18:46
head, as what addicts do, I was like,
18:49
"F you.
18:51
Who do you think you are, all right?"
18:52
So,
18:54
Troy didn't know, but for the next 5
18:55
months I was hell bent on proving my
18:58
mate wrong.
18:59
I had this attitude, this determination
19:02
which I had at rugby or study or the
19:04
city or whatever. So, you know what? I'm
19:06
going to prove you wrong. And what
19:07
happened was I got down to 1 g
19:10
a day.
19:11
And then I might drop out a but then I
19:13
was ravenous the next day for it, my
19:15
body, because I was I'm an addict. My
19:16
body needs to be fed the coke.
19:19
And my mind's obsessing about it. So, I
19:21
thought to myself, I just I just woke up
19:24
one day and thought, "I can't stop.
19:26
I can't stop. I need I've got And I felt
19:29
like I was in this corner and I I
19:30
literally had no moves left. I had to go
19:33
to rehab. I realized that I had to be
19:35
taken out of society and dropped in a
19:38
place for my own safety and for my
19:41
health."
19:42
Finish the story off. I had 6 weeks in
19:44
rehab
19:45
and I I gave it everything, like I do,
19:48
you know, whether it's what I do today,
19:50
counseling, mentoring, life coaching, or
19:52
up in the city, or coke use, or playing
19:54
rugby, or studying in university.
19:58
>> to win at.
19:59
>> Absolute Yeah, there you go. Perfect. I
20:01
have a what we call a winning script.
20:03
And it's it's it can be a good thing and
20:05
it can be a not so good thing. So, that
20:07
focus and determination, if it's pointed
20:10
in the right direction, can be very,
20:11
very productive and effective. If it's
20:13
pointed in the wrong direction, it can
20:14
be direction, it can be highly
20:16
destructive.
20:17
So, I go into rehab. I had 6 weeks and I
20:19
came out and I had a disagreement with
20:22
my ex, the mother of my children, and I
20:25
relapsed after 8 days.
20:28
I booked in this place called the Park
20:29
Inn Palace Hotel in Southampton.
20:32
And
20:34
um I worked out that I did no less than
20:36
3 g a day for 3 weeks. So, that's 63 g.
20:40
You can add on another
20:41
>> Just on your own in a hotel room.
20:44
>> Sad. I was sick. I wasn't well.
20:46
And I was just you know, I And I don't
20:48
know So, I reckon I did I reckon
20:50
anywhere up to or beyond 80
20:53
g of cocaine by myself in a hotel room,
20:56
hardly eating, hardly drinking.
20:59
And then I had the moment that I
21:03
I want for any alcoholic I wasn't an
21:07
alcoholic. I did My thing was was My
21:09
thing wasn't drink. My thing was
21:10
cocaine. I wasn't drinking at all at the
21:12
end. But my I had a moment.
21:15
And 3:22 a.m. on the clock on the TV.
21:17
I'll never forget it. I went to the
21:19
toilet. I came back. And I laid on the
21:20
bed.
21:21
And I just went [ __ ]
21:23
Like I just I just I don't know. Like
21:26
just thought I've I've got no moves
21:27
left.
21:28
I've got no moves
21:31
>> left. That was That was rock bottom.
21:33
>> That And I thought this is it. I was 52
21:35
years old. And I thought my whole life
21:38
had come down to 1 minute.
21:40
And the next decision I made was going
21:42
to effectively decide my future.
21:46
So I thought you keep using your Like
21:49
the fact you're not dead now is a
21:51
miracle.
21:52
I'm ordering Every time I'm ordering a a
21:54
bag of coke, I'm ordering a heart
21:55
attack.
21:56
My heart was just jumping out of my
21:58
chest.
21:59
Veins popping out of my head. Sweating
22:02
out. Just lying in the bed. Just jumping
22:04
around. Just just just like Michael
22:06
Jackson in a thriller movie or
22:08
something. Thriller song. You know, like
22:10
I was just the coke was raging through
22:12
my body.
22:13
And I just lay there. And I thought
22:16
And I just went I just literally thought
22:19
I can't do this anymore. I literally
22:21
cannot give
22:23
cocaine use anymore. I I've It's given
22:25
to I've given it everything. I've lost 5
22:28
stone. I'm mentally fragile. I'm
22:31
spiritually bankrupt. My ex doesn't like
22:34
me. I'm not present available for my
22:36
kids. I'm risking the lot. And the lot
22:38
meant death.
22:40
Um
22:41
And I just said And literally,
22:43
Christian, all the air went out of my
22:45
body.
22:46
And I just I just went there. And I went
22:48
I'm done.
22:49
Done.
22:50
And that was on the 17th of June, 2016.
22:53
The 18th of June, 2016
22:56
was my first clean and sober day. And on
23:00
Thursday, I will be 10 years clean and
23:03
sober.
23:04
Um
23:06
And and and that 10 years is is a
23:08
journey in itself. So, you asked me,
23:10
what was the point? Troy, plant a seed.
23:13
I go, you know what? I'm going to prove
23:14
you wrong. Work out I can't I can't
23:16
stop.
23:17
>> That wasn't That wasn't enough. Your
23:18
initial approach to to rehab was not
23:21
sufficient. You You were never going to
23:23
succeed through that mentality. You
23:26
Not until you hit that rock bottom in
23:28
that hotel bedroom. Yeah. Did it You got
23:31
there by yourself. You thought, okay,
23:32
now I know.
23:33
>> Yeah. And you had And then what's
23:34
happened is So, addiction is isolation.
23:38
So, when addicts die or alcoholics die,
23:40
they die alone.
23:42
All right. So, that's where it takes
23:43
you. It might start off in nightclubs
23:44
and bars and shiny lights and people,
23:47
but slowly but surely you get the
23:49
addiction and the alcoholism, it takes
23:51
you away from support.
23:53
>> It sounds like you could have died in
23:54
that hotel bedroom.
23:55
>> 100%.
23:56
I don't know. Like, mate, I
23:58
You know, sometimes I still sit here
24:01
Like, I did a post this morning on
24:03
LinkedIn and just saying, look, I'm 10
24:04
years clean and sober this week.
24:06
And I can't tell you how grateful I am
24:08
to be alive. It's never lost on me. I've
24:10
never And I don't want to lose that that
24:12
gratitude that I am actually alive.
24:14
Forget about you know, [clears throat]
24:16
helping people and the great fulfillment
24:18
I get from that. And I'm present and
24:19
available for my children. I'm not
24:21
special. I'm not different. But my kids
24:24
get what they should get.
24:25
A present and available, emotionally
24:28
available father doing his best doing
24:31
his best.
24:32
And um you know, back in the day, I just
24:35
wasn't that person. And and then and
24:38
then I went to I I threw myself into
24:40
This is what Kent does. Throws himself
24:42
into the project. So, the project was
24:45
get clean and sober. So, my tribe is
24:47
Narcotics Anonymous.
24:49
So, I've been to I go to I've been to
24:50
Alcoholics Anonymous, been to Cocaine
24:52
Anonymous, Anonymous, but
24:54
Narcotics Anonymous is my tribe. I And
24:57
and and where the the comfort of the
24:59
fellowships
25:00
is that you get with like-minded people.
25:03
Like I haven't met another Australian
25:05
who played rugby and went up in the
25:06
city. So, what I'm saying when I say
25:07
like-minded
25:09
drinking drugs all took us all to the
25:12
same place.
25:13
>> From all walks of life.
25:14
>> All walks of life.
25:15
>> But that's where you end it. So, let's
25:17
let's end by talking about what you're
25:19
doing now.
25:20
>> Yeah.
25:21
>> And
25:22
who it is that you help, who you see,
25:26
what kind of
25:29
I imagine everybody's story is
25:30
different, but what what is it that that
25:32
what's the commonality that leads to
25:34
somebody sending you an email or
25:37
sending you a message saying, "I think
25:38
I'd like to talk to you."
25:40
>> Yeah.
25:40
>> What sort of things are you working with
25:41
at the moment?
25:42
>> been It's been a crazy journey. Um
25:45
I'll I'll I'll I'll keep it very short.
25:47
So, a guy said, "I I think you'd make
25:48
good counselor." Anyway, two and fro, I
25:50
go and do this counseling course. Then I
25:52
jump on LinkedIn and I think I'll help,
25:54
you know, I'll just put my profile out
25:56
there. I don't do AI. I haven't got any
25:58
great strategy. My posts are about truth
26:01
and honesty and transparency and being
26:03
genuine and being authentic. So, I
26:05
thought I was going to help alcoholics
26:06
anonymous. Next thing I'm getting
26:07
high profile,
26:09
very successful men, particularly some
26:12
women, men in all walks of life
26:14
contacting me and going,
26:16
"Um look, I don't really have a problem
26:18
with drink or drugs or anything, but
26:19
will you mentor me?"
26:21
And I thought, "Okay." So, I literally
26:24
first time this guy asked me, I jumped
26:25
on the phone. I literally looked up the
26:27
definition of mentor, right? Do I have
26:29
to study for this or whatever?
26:31
And what I realized was that there is a
26:33
I appeal to a niche, a certain niche,
26:37
and they are
26:38
successful
26:40
from the outside. They look successful,
26:44
well-educated, uh good social skills,
26:47
good social etiquette, um
26:49
uh Uh, normally married, kids,
26:52
and they are literally spinning the
26:54
plates on the sticks.
26:56
They're going to work. They're looking,
26:58
you know, they're providing the private
26:59
school education or whatever. They're
27:01
paying the mortgage or whatever, and
27:03
they're getting to a point where they
27:05
are struggling in one way or another.
27:08
So, let me give you an idea of some of
27:10
my clients. So, they're the corporate
27:11
guys.
27:12
I've worked with a number of
27:14
international rugby players,
27:16
uh, a couple of All Blacks, a couple of
27:17
Wallabies, uh, some England
27:18
internationals,
27:20
a lot of guys who played in the
27:22
Premiership and rugby, and then they
27:25
have struggled to transition into life
27:28
after rugby, and they're leaning into
27:30
poor coping mechanisms. It makes a lot
27:32
of sense. You get a lot of dopamine, a
27:33
lot of adrenaline playing rugby, then
27:36
your identity's gone, your purpose is
27:37
gone. You've got to reinvent yourself,
27:39
early 30s, who am I now, all that sort
27:42
of stuff.
27:43
But, I've had some absolutely amazing
27:47
um,
27:49
clientele.
27:50
I mean, Netflix executives,
27:52
um, guys who own companies, you know,
27:53
guys who, you know, I sold this for 10
27:55
million, and I I'm I'm I'm empty. I'm
27:58
alone. I don't have a girlfriend. I'm in
28:00
my 30s. I've got all this money, and I
28:03
>> So, there might be people who's not not
28:04
everyone who comes to you for help is
28:06
coming because they've they've got a
28:07
drug addiction, and they know that you
28:08
had a drug addiction. They want to
28:10
Sometimes it's about a realization that
28:12
despite their outward evidence of
28:14
success, they feel inside that that
28:17
they're empty.
28:17
>> Yeah, they need What they come to the
28:19
realization is they need some help, they
28:21
need some guidance, and they need some
28:22
support. And the reason I get amped up
28:24
about it is
28:25
they are the type of they are
28:27
representative
28:29
of almost like the person I was back
28:32
then.
28:33
And I, as I said before, at the start of
28:35
this, I want to be the person today that
28:38
I wanted I needed to speak to 25 years
28:41
ago.
28:42
So, it's extremely fulfilling to me. And
28:44
look, there's some there's some
28:46
funny enough, there's some guys who
28:49
There's a portion of guys whose fathers
28:50
left.
28:51
So, they haven't had a male
28:52
authoritative figure in their life. So,
28:54
they haven't had someone they'll go to
28:56
granddad or uncle or whatever, but they
28:58
haven't had that male authoritative
29:00
figure, someone that they can bounce
29:02
real-life problems off. You know, and
29:04
and I'm You know, I'm 62 years old. So,
29:07
you know, I've got a reservoir of life's
29:10
experiences, good, bad, and indifferent.
29:12
So, when guys they might look for a bit
29:13
of career advice I don't I don't
29:16
you know, I don't give career advice.
29:18
That's not what I advertise as, but if
29:20
they go, "Look, I'm at this point." You
29:22
know, we talk about that. We talk about
29:23
family.
29:25
Um
29:27
Very, very fulfilling.
29:28
>> It clearly is. I can see it. I can see
29:30
it on your face, and it's been a
29:31
pleasure to talk to you about it. And
29:33
thank you for being so candid and
29:35
honest. And and and I'm pleased we were
29:37
able to end of course on and not just an
29:39
optimistic note, but in an optimistic
29:41
stage of your life now. So, thank you
29:43
for for coming in and talking to us.
29:45
>> My pleasure. Thank you.

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