Joyner Lucas Talks New Album, DMX Influence & Weighs In on Drake, Kendrick, J. Cole Big 3 Convo

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this is his first time really officially
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on this show crazy I mean we play his
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music throughout this show to have him
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in person um is really a treat for us to
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have him dop um from Ramen and OJ ADHD
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all these different projects this man
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has put out throughout his career I'm
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not a racist um the videos he shot the
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artists he's worked with uh from um
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jcole to L baby to Will Smith um to
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Eminem crazy right and just watching
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this man's work watching his vision not
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just um what he does as a vocalist but
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what he does as a Visionary as a
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director I knew that this man was the
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complete package but when I have fun
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listening to his metaphors and his
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similes and trying to dissect them and
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that's the thing that keeps me excited
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about music and when people kind of meet
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that standard that keeps my mind working
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I grow to be more and more fond of them
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and so I've been wanting to have this
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man on the show for a long time we
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weren't able to make it happen we needed
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to figure it out a good friend of ours
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mugs brought us together my man Mugs Up
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for mugs hey mugs and mugs called me at
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a pretty crucial time this is when my
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grandmother was in the hospital okay
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yeah yeah you remember that and I was
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took some time off to to see her off in
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a wonderful transition and mug said hey
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man I got jinah Lucas with me what man
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can you hook us up you know because I
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feel like he and I should have a
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conversation he was doing a song with
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Tech 9 who Someone I used to manage M
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right and I said this is just you know
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this is serendipitous that you are
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standing there with them and he put us
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on the phone and I wanted to let you
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know that how big of a fan I was of
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yours and still am um and with some of
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the music I want to even talk about
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music at this time my grandmother's down
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the hallway in the hospital but I wanted
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it was important to me to let you know
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that I'm a true fan of yours and I think
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what you do is important to the culture
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and even Beyond culture it's important
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to the community and that people who are
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in uh proximity of your work um are
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receiving a lot of healing um through
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your words through your honesty through
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your transparency and through your
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unique way of um telling these stories
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you know first second person
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perspectives all the different things
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you done with music and with your lyrics
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I want to commend you Joiner Lucas uh
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for constantly pushing the envelope yes
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for constantly putting in the universe
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some fruit some nourishment okay and for
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constantly keeping these MC's off they
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lazy asses and knowing that if they have
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to collaborate with you they got to
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bring their a game cuz people like to
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think that that's not important so I
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want to welcome you to the show ladies
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and gentlemen give it up for the Grammy
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nominated the one and only Joiner Lucas
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is up in
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here here it it welcome I'm good what an
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introduction bro oh I could have went
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longer man I'm cold oh what an
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introduction that was that was that
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was I'm humble man that was a that was a
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beautiful sentiment man that's easy wow
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I was I don't know what to say like
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that's thank you man I was getting
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welcome like that up here man by by
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somebody like yourself is that's special
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man thank you brother no thank you man I
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love you too man and I'm glad we finally
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connected man come on man you got a lot
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of big chains on join the Lucas life
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been good
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huh life been good huh that's been all
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right life been all right yeah right
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right but I also appreciate um your
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business sense too um the way you've
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conducted your career you know when we
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were coming up he BNI I uh we we came in
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the game as artist you know a lot of
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folks don't know that I was an artist
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first before I got into R Radio was just
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the [ __ ] I got to do something you know
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and knew how to take take advantage of
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the opportunity and make it what it's
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been for over three decades um but it
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it's not easy to stand out sometimes you
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know what I mean it's not easy to be
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heard even when you're dope it's even
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harder because people got to use more of
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an effort to understand what it is
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you're doing you know what was your
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purpose man like when you wanted to be
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an artist was it just to be a great MC
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or did you have a purpose behind it uh
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that's a good question
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um I think it started off you know just
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wanting to um just wanting to be a a a
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great artist you know and then I think I
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found the purpose as as time went
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on but above all I think when I when I
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first started out I was a kid man I was
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9 10 you know years old and um just you
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know you trying to break into the
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industry even at that time you know what
4:49
I mean wow competing with baow you know
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what I mean but B didn't know I was
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competing with
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him nobody knew who who joined Lucas was
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at that time but in my mind I'd like to
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think I was competing with
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B sending demos out to
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the record labels and you know what I
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mean trying to get signed and stuff like
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that and then you know it wasn't until
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you know I got older you know what I
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mean and I really started getting in my
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bag and started to you know find myself
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you know my Lane as a person you know
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you know as an artist and I think that's
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where I kind of started developing my
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own sound because when I was young you
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know I used to like try to sound like
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everybody else I got a song sounding
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like everybody like everybody
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everybody's Cadence I I was I can like
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replicate anybody's Cadence at a time
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you know Eminem was a big influence I
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would try to sound like M whoever was
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popping at the time I wanted to sound
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like that juvenile I got a song when I
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was like 12 that I was rapping like
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juvenile you got you got a voice let me
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hear your voice like it was like like
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trying
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to you know what I mean like how juie be
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trying to rap you know what I'm saying
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oh you think you real huh oh you huh you
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know what I mean ironically the J the uh
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the jcole record I broke your heart huh
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you know was like real uh juvie inspired
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for sure um oh snap Circle
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moment
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wow but doing that as a youth like to me
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that's such a great form of learning and
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appreciating the art you know getting
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all the foundation and the rules down so
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you can break them yeah and I and I was
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like very influenced and inspired by
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like like Buster rymes I try to sound
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like him try to sound like Nelly at one
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point you know like every night how
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Nelly used to rap you know he used to
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like kind of sing
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rap want go I did all of that all of
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those flows all of that I tried to sound
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like everybody that was because you
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think like oh this is working for them
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so let me if I did this then it could
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work for me you know what I mean and um
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yeah so I think that because I spent so
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many years learning how to do that I
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became
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uh really good you know what I mean um
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and by the time I broke into the
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industry it was difficult to try to find
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my own voice a little bit like you know
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and it was like what like I didn't I
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didn't really know what people wanted to
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hear from Jordan Lucas you know my first
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project Along Came jiner was really just
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like a um it was really just an
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experiment because it was like if you if
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if you ever you know heard that project
7:39
it's like a mixtape but it has so many
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different sounds of Joiner on there and
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it's kind of confusing because you'll
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get like the sing rap Joiner you'll get
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a storytelling Joiner you know you'll
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get like um a lyrical Joiner and then
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you'll get like a dumb down you know
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then you'll get a club Joiner there's
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all these different joiners that I'm
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like I don't know what people want he
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from me I don't know what people are
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going to gravitate towards to you know
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but it just so happened that people
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gravitated towards doing what I love the
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most which was the storytelling so Ross
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capucon was the first that was the
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record that that people Round of
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Applause right that was the one and when
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that was gratification for me like okay
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so people want people want to hear me do
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what I love to do the best you I love
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doing all different types of sounds you
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know what I mean um it wasn't like I was
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trying to be like anybody at this time
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but I just love doing so many different
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sounds that I just didn't know you know
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what people were going to gravitate
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towards to people started gravitating
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towards the turnup Joiner then I just
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would have been the turnup Jo turn Jo
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like that's what y'all want to hear
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let's get it but they gravitated towards
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the storytelling right and it was like
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this is perfect is that a sigh of relief
8:45
in yeah it was because it was like this
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is what I this is what I love to do the
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most and this is something that not
8:50
everybody can do you know and it's like
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uh that was Ross cion was like my
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introduction to like really like you
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know to the game and how people and then
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everything thing was that it was like
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all right cool I'm going to give yall
9:01
that and that's you know that's really
9:03
what that is yeah man I want you to keep
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talking bro me you know I appreciate
9:08
that absolutely have to beat no um so
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this is two parts to this question then
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with so many different Inspirations and
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you just admitting like I I use a bit of
9:17
this use a bit of that I always think
9:19
it's fascinating and how do you come up
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with a name because I love artists that
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take a piece of their own name and make
9:25
it their artist name um how did you
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decide going to stick with my name so um
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I went through a bunch of different
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names oh okay right and it was just like
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um it just didn't it you know just it
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just really wasn't it didn't really at
9:42
the time it fit pause but then it stop F
9:47
so you ain't got to pause here brother
9:49
don't worry this a pause
9:51
freeone okay you
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good so So eventually I just ended up
9:59
just sticking with I just I just ended
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up just sticking with my name and that
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felt the most comfortable to you yeah it
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felt the most yeah it just felt the most
10:06
comfortable and then you know people
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like um you know Kendrick Lamar you know
10:12
um what other Rapp is that you you
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nases Curry know emem Marsh matters yep
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M Ms made me feel like you know I just
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used you know first and last instead of
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just going by Jord I just go join the Le
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right so artists that were in the place
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that you that's listening now and is
10:34
going to see this um what would you say
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to them then that's in that place
10:38
because I I can easily see people being
10:40
influenced you want to sound like this
10:42
one this is working music is going in
10:43
this Direction that's working how do you
10:45
find that sweet spot what would you say
10:48
to artists it's really honestly it's
10:50
like it's I feel like it's easy like
10:52
when something works and you see
10:54
something working for you right for
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somebody else right if you see that
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there's something working for somebody
11:01
else I just I think it um and you know
11:03
how to do it right it's like it's no
11:06
different than you know you seeing a you
11:08
know u a McDonald's and a Burger King
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cross the street from each other you
11:11
know or like this is what's the street
11:14
out here with all the jewelry stores and
11:16
it's like a what's diamond
11:18
diamond they all selling the same [ __ ]
11:20
it's like they're all selling jewelry
11:22
right but it's like it's like it's so
11:23
easy because you see that work how did
11:25
that start right was it one business and
11:27
then that other person was like oh that
11:29
work for them let me do it and then
11:30
somebody else was like I'm going to put
11:31
one here and so the point that I'm
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making is that it's so easy to to to do
11:38
what you see is already working and um I
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think that's just natural for people to
11:44
do but I think that um you start to find
11:49
you you'll start to craft and find your
11:51
own voice there's people that try to
11:53
sound like Jordan you know what I mean
11:54
there's people that and it's like I can
11:56
see I hear it and there's a lot of
11:57
people that tell me like yo like you
11:59
know my whole album like it was
12:01
influenced by you and y ya y right but
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it's like I understand what that is
12:05
because I've done that you know I've
12:06
listened to artists and try to sound
12:07
like them and emulate them there's
12:09
artists that come out even newer like
12:11
lyrical artists that come out all the
12:12
time that that you know kind of copy my
12:15
cadences and my flows and my style but I
12:17
ain't I don't ever get mad at it though
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right it's like I'm I love it because
12:20
it's like that's the type of [ __ ] that I
12:22
was doing like that's you know what I'm
12:24
saying like that's that's dope to me but
12:25
they're going to end up finding
12:27
themselves by doing that they take a
12:28
little bit of this a little bit of that
12:30
and a little bit of that and then they
12:31
sprinkle it up and then next thing you
12:33
know they come up with their own [ __ ]
12:34
and then Bo and then they're born you
12:36
know what I mean and that's how I became
12:37
that's how Jordan Lucas became born you
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know what I mean a little bit of style
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from him take a little bit of m a little
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bit of Snoop a little bit of Nelly
12:44
little juy here little Yad Yad Yad
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little slick rick with the storytelling
12:48
little jco you know what I'm saying like
12:50
even the newer artist little Kendrick
12:51
little Cole Drake here in there little
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sprinkles of different people that I
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like and that I listen to and that other
12:57
people like and listen to and then you
12:58
start to like craft your own little
13:01
sound you know what I mean so shout out
13:03
to all of them artists that I'm
13:04
influenced by round of applause you know
13:07
what man shout out to all those radio
13:09
shows out there and and people who do
13:11
what we do that from
13:15
us it happens right look at the podcast
13:18
now yeah right there nothing but you
13:20
just Sway in the Morning has been like a
13:22
a podcast for it's not just radio it's
13:24
been a podcast a podcast the artist
13:27
coming up here rapping you know it's and
13:29
you're talking to people like that's not
13:30
just radio right he's been he's been
13:33
you've been talking to people right and
13:34
it's like this has been a podcast but
13:36
now you got the Joe Button podcast you
13:38
got the gillion Milli absolutely family
13:40
right there right you got all of these
13:42
other podcasts but that were influenced
13:44
by that and they've seen that and
13:46
they've seen you make a way and they're
13:47
like [ __ ] let me do it and switch in my
13:49
own style you know what I mean like
13:50
that's what it's all about you know what
13:52
I mean that's what it's all about sure I
13:53
want to um um talk about a couple of
13:56
things first of all I want to make sure
13:58
cuz I you know some of these things are
13:59
obviously in the past but I we never got
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a chance to talk about it but more more
14:04
recently I know you had scrapped an in
14:06
um experimental project that you have
14:09
worked on for years and I read that you
14:12
decided to do that because it wasn't
14:15
moving in a direction part of the reason
14:17
wasn't moving in a direction that your
14:18
fans particularly care for and and it
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made me think like how so do the what
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what percentage of the fans influence
14:26
determines the music you make a lot of
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it cuz it's like I feel like um I've
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spent so many years building a core
14:36
right and it's like let's let's use
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um we're going to use um
14:43
um McDonald's okay okay McDonald's
14:46
people go to McDonald's because they
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want a burger right or some fries right
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you're not going to McDonald's for
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pizza right you go in there because you
14:54
want to McChicken or you want the Big
14:56
Mac or you want some fries right and
14:59
people love McDonald's because
15:00
McDonald's has that and you not really
15:02
getting that from any other places that
15:04
you do have Burger King you do got
15:06
Wendy's you got all these other versions
15:08
of these fast food restaurants AKA you
15:10
do got other artists that are in the
15:12
same realm but it's not McDonald's right
15:15
you got to go to McDonald's to get
15:17
McDonald's now McDonald's is a staple
15:20
and um they have the secret sauce you
15:22
know the Big Mac sauce they got the
15:24
secret sauce now Big Mac sauce we
15:26
already know what that is right it's
15:27
been a long time and we figured out what
15:28
the hell the Big Mac sauces but for many
15:31
many years you had to go to McDonald's
15:33
in order to get the Big Mac sauce with
15:35
the Big Mac and that's just what it is
15:38
now McDonald's likes to roll out new
15:40
items on their menu and a lot of these
15:42
uh fast food chains they roll out new
15:45
items on their menus all the time right
15:47
but those new items they're always
15:50
within the realm of you know it's always
15:52
a new burger right or it's the fries
15:54
with a little bit of garlic and cheese
15:57
on it right they not rolling out
15:59
rotisserie chicken you know they not
16:01
rolling out you know a large pepperoni
16:05
pizza right you not Lo they're not
16:06
loading out things that you know they're
16:09
not loading out some some some some
16:10
fried chicken wings right like you're
16:13
not trying to go to McDonald's to get
16:15
those things right you want to go to
16:17
different places that they can get those
16:18
so what I started to
16:20
do was I started to load out you know a
16:25
large pepperoni pizza in my McDonald's
16:28
right I started to experiment with
16:31
different things that weren't really in
16:33
the realm of right it was like although
16:35
some people were buying it right yeah
16:39
people aren't coming to my McDonald's to
16:42
purchase pizza right you're going to get
16:44
people that's going to get it and
16:45
they're going to try it and some people
16:46
are going to come back for it and you
16:48
know and you know you might have some
16:50
repeated customers that go there
16:51
specifically for the pizza but if you
16:54
built this restaurant this chain
16:57
specifically off of that hot commodity
16:59
that you have and 90% of your
17:02
demographic is going to you know your
17:05
place of business to purchase your you
17:08
know uh Big Mac and the purchasing your
17:12
fries and your hot commodity why are you
17:15
you know going to try to roll out a
17:17
large pizza and some fried chicken wings
17:19
and a rotisserie chicken and a hot dog
17:22
hot dog in there and a in a taco and a
17:25
taco it's like Bagel so not now I'm busy
17:29
the first version mhm was tacos and
17:33
large pizzas and chicken fingers and it
17:35
was all these things and it was like you
17:37
know what like I feel like you
17:39
know because I built an Enterprise you
17:43
know people are going to come and
17:45
they're going to try all these different
17:47
things and they're going to be happy but
17:49
I started to realize was like nah bro
17:51
you got to do it you know within reason
17:54
if you're going to do that you're going
17:55
to roll something new out you know you
17:56
got to you know you got to do within
17:59
reason you going to try a new burger you
18:01
know maybe put a little something on
18:03
there you know maybe put you know some
18:04
fries but this time you know load it up
18:06
you know do loaded fries you know try to
18:08
don't go all the way left field and
18:10
start serving things that are outside
18:12
the realm and once I realized that I
18:15
realized that you know I started to be a
18:19
little bit uncomfortable myself because
18:20
it was like I started feeling like you
18:23
know not really happy with the direction
18:24
I was going in for me right I wasn't
18:27
happy with the taco right I was trying
18:29
to feed you the [ __ ] right I was I ate
18:31
it I didn't even know if I liked it but
18:32
I'm like you know what maybe they'll
18:33
like it and that's not how I do thing
18:35
that wasn't being true to me yeah right
18:37
because you know I've always tried the
18:40
the Big Mac and i' and I've tried the
18:42
McChicken and I was like this is fire
18:44
they GNA love it let's and I'm standing
18:46
behind it and I'm like but I started to
18:50
do [ __ ] like I don't know if I like this
18:52
Taco but you know what you know they say
18:55
try new things I guess we can jump out
18:56
the window and try new things so let's
18:58
do it I got all these you know so it's
19:00
like when I realized that I wasn't being
19:02
true to myself I had to push back and I
19:05
had to start from ground zero so now
19:08
this project um getting the jelly roll
19:10
feature and all of that doing that this
19:12
was me you know having a new burger you
19:16
know what I'm saying the loaded nacho
19:18
Burger you know what I'm saying
19:20
something different but you know you you
19:23
understand what I'm trying to
19:24
say yeah man you're a great Lyricist I'm
19:26
hungry as [ __ ] right now I know man you
19:29
just stomach pains right now
19:32
dog's stop with the McDonald's acknowled
19:35
say you hungry as hell right um the the
19:40
jelly roll feature is so I eat
19:42
breakfast like speaking you can see
19:45
Burgers dancing in your heads and
19:48
[ __ ] best of me let's talk about the
19:51
best of me song too with jelly roll who
19:54
is uh man if I I would love to get jelly
19:56
roll up here he came up in here one time
19:58
we was able to put him on um cuz he
20:01
didn't come for us but um
20:06
pause that was crazy that was I couldn't
20:09
let you slide with I couldn't let you
20:11
slide with that S I had I had to you I
20:15
had to I had to that told you was a PO
20:18
that was that was too crazy that was too
20:22
crazy wow yo than that's my brother
20:25
that's my brother y I'll take that I'll
20:28
take
20:29
Lifesaver um
20:31
but
20:34
um let's play
20:37
s this is the song Best of Me for got
20:41
you again
20:43
huh he called himself I myself
20:47
himself yeah wow that was a
20:50
first [ __ ] it sounded crazy saying it in
20:52
front of him at this point he going to
20:54
start looking at me different so I had
20:56
to pause myself just to save my man
21:00
crazy every day yo every day join we
21:03
deal with this guy um best of me um
21:06
jelly rooll I I like how you started um
21:09
this verse and you talking about a
21:11
friend who had an addiction right who
21:13
has an
21:14
addiction um I
21:17
like your your tactics and your songs
21:21
when you talk from first and second
21:23
person and you give these different
21:25
perspectives I'm not a racist was
21:28
brilliant yep thank you that was a
21:31
masterpiece the way it was shot was
21:35
brilliant a
21:37
masterpiece you know what something
21:39
about that record I don't mean to cut
21:40
you off no go for it I'm not racist
21:44
um that that record came in a point in
21:46
my life where you know um it was really
21:50
my last ditch effort like you know
21:53
because I started feeling really
21:54
defeated you know at this time um in my
21:57
career where I felt like
21:59
it was moving really slow and I felt
22:01
like
22:03
um I felt like you know I was on a on a
22:06
um a label situation and I felt like
22:09
they wasn't really doing anything for me
22:10
and I felt like you know I just signed
22:13
my life away and I was just going to
22:14
just get shelf and I was just like damn
22:16
and I ended up linking with DMX and we
22:19
had like a real conversation you know
22:22
and he and he gave me some real dope
22:24
advice you know he came from a place
22:26
where we you know we was talking about
22:30
um record labels and you know his
22:32
experience you know that he had with the
22:34
labels and all the little tricks and
22:35
things that they would do to try to get
22:37
over on you and things and he basically
22:40
you know told me like yo you just got to
22:42
like you got to make them believe you
22:44
got to do something that's going to like
22:46
you got to you got to figure out
22:48
something you know what I mean to make
22:50
them like really stand behind you pause
22:52
I was like you know what so after that
22:56
conversation um I wrote I'm not racist
22:59
now while writing I'm not racist um man
23:05
I felt it was like one of the the the
23:07
first time in my life that I had like
23:09
real Supernatural feelings like like I
23:12
would like be staring off into the blank
23:13
and like I wasn't like I just felt like
23:16
you know I it was like I almost knew
23:18
that this record was going to change
23:19
everything right and it was
23:21
like you know I I knew I was channeling
23:25
you know something greater than me to
23:27
help to help me right this song right
23:29
because it was like I wrote this song on
23:33
a
23:34
Monday and I already had who you know I
23:38
had actors in my head that I wanted to
23:40
play the roles of these characters and
23:42
these are people that I knew from where
23:44
I'm from these weren't these big actors
23:45
these all people in my music videos
23:48
you're always people that are acting are
23:49
people that I've known for years right
23:52
so it's like um when I gave it to these
23:55
actors I gave them three days
23:59
and and I knew I needed a simple
24:02
Warehouse shot I didn't want just a
24:04
table two people and no distractions
24:08
nothing else crazy in the video and it
24:10
has to start off just boom and it can't
24:13
be you know starting off with them
24:16
walking into the room and you know
24:18
sitting down that takes too much time we
24:20
don't have people don't have that much
24:22
of a time span you know what I mean so
24:24
it has to be quick as soon as you click
24:27
play with all due respect I don't have
24:30
pity for you black n it just has to be
24:32
disrespectful right out the gate right
24:34
just and you got to pull people in and I
24:37
knew I needed the white boy to go first
24:40
in the music video I knew the M the
24:42
music video had to drop with the record
24:45
it could not drop without the record and
24:48
I knew that people were going to assume
24:50
that the white guy was Jordan Lucas I
24:52
scraped my social media I took
24:54
everything off my Instagram so people
24:56
couldn't see who I was and I just put
24:59
I'm not racist the white dude and I knew
25:01
that was going to have people pissed off
25:02
and in the Uproar and everybody was
25:04
going to think who the [ __ ] is this guy
25:07
who's this white Jordan Lucas guy which
25:09
is going to force you to listen to the
25:11
rest of the song which you would have
25:12
then discovered that wait a
25:15
minute that's not Jordan Lucas maybe the
25:18
black guy is wait a minute that's not
25:21
Jordan Lucas who is Jordan Lucas which
25:24
is going to force you to go down a
25:26
discovery path to try to figure out who
25:27
the [ __ ] I am right that was to me that
25:31
was the genius behind that record and
25:32
that's exactly what it did I did the
25:35
record we shot the video and I dropped
25:39
it on a Sunday or something like
25:43
that and you know the label didn't want
25:47
me to drop it they told me no they said
25:49
drop it in March you know drop it in
25:51
April we were in
25:54
November that's the last quarter they
25:57
don't want one of the people from the
25:59
label
26:00
said we I hop on a call and I showed
26:02
everybody and they was like I didn't
26:05
even listen to the whole thing I got
26:06
offended I was like wow okay they didn't
26:09
want me to some somebody else at the
26:11
label said I I feel like you should
26:13
change the ending and I was like no not
26:16
doing
26:17
that I said you know what I'm just going
26:20
to drop it I'mma drop it on Toon Core
26:22
I'm going drop it outside of the label
26:23
even though I'm on a label I'mma break
26:25
all the rules and I'm going say [ __ ] you
26:26
and I'm just going to drop it and I
26:28
dropped it and I took a nap and when I
26:32
took a nap and I woke up my mom wake me
26:34
up and she says yo wake up you're on CNN
26:38
wow bro I said what I said what I walked
26:41
in her room it's sure enough every
26:45
station you turn the channel on I'm not
26:47
racist was on every sing it was like you
26:49
would think 911 happened all over again
26:51
it was a number it was the the world
26:54
stop right and it was just like that
26:56
video really it was it broke the
26:59
internet it broke the TV it changed
27:02
everything for me in the in the in
27:03
overnight I had all the doors I was
27:06
trying to kick down all the floodgates
27:08
that things that I was trying to do my
27:10
entire life the people I was trying to
27:12
reach the superstars I I I was fans of
27:15
that I wanted to talk to but I couldn't
27:16
get a hold of them everybody was hitting
27:18
me in the DMS you know I'm at Chris
27:21
Brown's house the next day I got Rihanna
27:22
hitting me I'm like I mean like I'm full
27:25
accessible I'm like it's every the world
27:27
is at you know the palm of my hands at
27:29
this point with I'm not racist and that
27:31
record really changed my life joining
27:34
Lucas
27:35
man and and by the way that was a
27:38
storytelling record right that was a
27:40
storytelling record so when that went
27:42
crazy it was another Ross cabon moment
27:45
for me where it was like aha right found
27:48
this this is this is right I'm happy
27:50
people are knowing Joiner for this [ __ ]
27:53
for this type of music you know what I'm
27:54
saying like for that you know what I
27:56
mean yeah and you Chris you went on tour
27:58
after that right me and Chris went on
28:00
tour a little bit after that it was a
28:02
couple mightbe a couple years after that
28:03
yeah but yeah he brought me on tour
28:05
after that wow do do do you find it um I
28:10
find it
28:11
interesting the way I feel about you as
28:14
an artist right and and now as a human
28:16
being right thank a lot of us who are
28:20
Architects who've been in this for
28:22
decades gravitate towards
28:24
you you notice this like you all want to
28:28
be around Joiner mhm cuz you you appeal
28:31
to us uh well for me you appeal to a
28:34
part that I know is pure wow thank you
28:37
man you know and it it's that simple
28:40
because we came in it at a place where
28:42
we were blissed about a whole lot of
28:44
[ __ ] yeah and then you start learning
28:46
the mechanics of it I know so much about
28:48
this business that I choose not to talk
28:51
about cuz I I like that pure I don't get
28:54
that often MH I see you with M and M M
28:57
don't step out for a whole lot of people
29:00
bro I know Marshall since 96 97 he
29:04
doesn't do that a lot and I know how he
29:07
thinks he's a true MC he did digest this
29:12
stuff I know y'all hung out you've been
29:14
around them when I saw you sitting with
29:17
Will Smith salute to Will Smith too man
29:19
I say these
29:21
name Will's my guy bro and I saw you it
29:26
just looked like you would
29:29
teaching will and Will was humble with
29:33
enough humility to sit there and learn
29:36
from you and you showing them reading
29:39
them lyrics and yall hanging out how
29:42
does that make you feel to know that
29:44
these legendary iconic people gravitate
29:47
toward
29:49
um I don't I've never looked at it in a
29:52
way where like these legendary people
29:55
are gravitating towards me I just I'm
29:57
I'm soaking in the moment while I'm with
30:00
them and I'm
30:02
um I'm it's a surreal feeling because
30:04
I'm just like damn like yo this is it I
30:07
wrote a song about will you know and
30:09
it's like just expressing my admiration
30:11
for him and um to be in a studio with
30:15
him or you know to be at his house and
30:18
vibing with him and him just mentoring
30:21
me you know it it's just playing golf
30:24
you know him teaching me how to golf and
30:27
you know he's become like a like a you
30:29
know like a older brother you know what
30:32
I mean to me and um that feeling alone
30:36
is is very surreal you know he put me in
30:38
Bad Boys four yeah you which is fire you
30:41
know gave me a lot of looks and love bad
30:43
boy for man come on man things that he
30:46
didn't have to do but you know he did
30:48
and me and him you know we made a lot of
30:50
you know music together and you know
30:51
written you know a lot of records
30:53
together and he absolutely allows me to
30:55
guide him you know when we're in the
30:57
studio um you know he's like yo you take
31:00
the lead you tell me what to do so you
31:02
know he's in the studio and he's you
31:04
know I'm out there and I got a little
31:06
talk back mik and I'm like nah not like
31:07
that you you got to say it like this and
31:09
we'll do that take three or four times
31:11
and you know I'm just like all right all
31:13
right and then sometimes he don't get it
31:14
and I'm like well you got you know what
31:16
I mean it's just like you know that's
31:19
for me to to to to do that you know what
31:21
I mean um with somebody like him it's
31:24
just like damn you know it's it's it's
31:27
it's crazy but but um it's a real
31:30
humbling experience for sure like where
31:33
were you when you met X you mentioned
31:34
DMX at the top of this where were you
31:36
guys when y'all first met he was in a a
31:38
um rehabilitation program and he came to
31:42
the studio that I was working at one day
31:44
wow wow and I ended up just like talking
31:46
to him and you know linking with him and
31:49
then you know he would he he would like
31:51
randomly hit me up text me at like 1 in
31:53
the morning like like yo let's go out
31:56
you know what I'm saying and then I'll
31:58
scoop him up and then we'll go play pool
32:00
he was he was his he was a really good
32:03
pool player he used to scrape me in pool
32:07
we had had no pause no pause on all
32:10
right all right in pool bro in pool me
32:14
he used to scrape me swimming pool pool
32:16
table got I don't know yeah he used to
32:20
scrape me in pool table
32:24
games and um he was really good and
32:28
pool um and um we had a lot of real dope
32:32
uh conversations man you know and um
32:35
he's actually on the album so his verse
32:38
his verse is very uh
32:40
chilling rest in not now I'm busy sir
32:44
pick up this project man this is a lot
32:46
of food Feast on this music I say Feast
32:49
cuz food is meant to nurture yeah and so
32:52
is music and when you find a plate like
32:56
the one this man has created
32:58
you going to forever be full this is
33:00
just part one okay okay join her we
33:04
already talked about this just part one
33:06
right back we going to get you we going
33:07
to get you to the crib man going to his
33:09
house come to the house and we do a
33:11
whole segment you know can Heather come
33:13
get the V yeah you bring I could bring I
33:15
could cook I I got Chef I got chef chef
33:18
treatment all that okay all right let
33:20
know what you need yeah Mike Muse did
33:22
you want to say this is Mike Muse right
33:25
here and yeah I do he's he's U
33:28
M up what's up
33:31
everybody thoroughly enjoying the
33:33
conversation uh I really enjoy how you
33:35
think and your methodology and your
33:37
concept and so with everything you just
33:39
said I actually want to go back to
33:41
McDonald's to the example that you were
33:43
using and I'm curious to understand how
33:47
do you reconcile when to advance your
33:49
art right because when is it time to add
33:52
the chicken wings when is it time like
33:54
to add the pizza when do you know when
33:56
it's time to stretch yourself cuz
33:57
everything you just said it's concept
33:59
conceptual you're already ahead of the
34:01
pack with most MC's in Hip Hop when you
34:04
talk I invoke Kendrick and the way that
34:06
he did his Paris show right the
34:09
conceptual stage that he had the way
34:10
that he does his videos he's a pull a
34:12
surprise winner so the way he stretches
34:14
his art so I'm just curious how do you
34:16
reconcile so what you stretching Paul
34:19
what
34:22
you so what you do right is you said
34:25
when is it time to add the pizza and
34:27
when is the the time that first you got
34:29
to you got to do the you know pepperoni
34:32
pizza
34:33
burger right you got to make sure you do
34:36
the pepperoni pizza burger first because
34:39
people know you for burgers and like you
34:41
know what I'm saying and then after that
34:43
works you know what I'm saying then you
34:44
might be able to do something you know
34:46
what I mean like a little small
34:47
pepperoni pizza dough or something like
34:49
that but you jumping out the gate with a
34:52
pepperoni pizza is crazy so what to
34:54
answer your analogy is I think that
35:01
um I feel like you have to do it within
35:05
reason right you can't sometimes you you
35:07
know sometimes it doesn't make sense to
35:09
put pepperoni pizza you know what I'm
35:11
mean sometimes it doesn't make sense to
35:12
do those things um because it's just so
35:15
a from your your brand you know what I
35:17
mean and even though that you enjoy
35:18
those types of music and you enjoy doing
35:21
certain things um doesn't mean and and
35:24
I've had this conversation with my
35:26
manager because he's very much into the
35:28
culture and stuff too who's your
35:31
manager oh okay what's up man I didn't
35:33
know that you know yeah all right we
35:36
never met
35:40
we
35:41
years yeah you guys would remember we
35:43
would remember each other yeah okay made
35:46
it to col yeah you never seen him before
35:49
I've seen him before
35:52
nipy man look like nippy yeah that's
35:55
what calling Kaepernick that's
36:01
Aladdin he said Aladdin stop bin
36:05
laddin open the door now get out all
36:08
right man but but um I I tell him all
36:12
the time because you know he's he likes
36:15
to go strip clubs you know what I'm
36:16
saying he be in the clubs and stuff
36:18
sometimes and you know sometimes he like
36:20
damn you know he sees that some records
36:22
that are not really streaming crazy um
36:25
you know you go to the strip club and of
36:27
those records big records you know what
36:29
I'm saying and then he'll come back to
36:31
me and be like yo man we need to make a
36:33
record like this or you we should do
36:35
something like that and and I'm like yo
36:38
but that's not my demographic though you
36:39
know what I'm saying it's like learning
36:41
what your demographic is and knowing
36:42
what it isn't you know what I'm saying
36:44
and it's like I don't really be up in
36:46
the strip clubs like that you feel me so
36:48
it's like if that's something if I was
36:49
in the strip clubs heavy not to say that
36:51
I don't go like I've been you know what
36:53
I'm saying I'll pull up if you if we
36:54
going out we going out like but am I
36:56
going out of my way to hit the strippy
36:58
nah am I in there throwing bread and
37:00
getting crazy nah I barely drink I
37:03
barely I don't smoke like you know my
37:05
lifestyle is different you know what I'm
37:06
saying he he smoked he drink like he's a
37:09
you got to do certain things to be in
37:11
certain places and you know he'll come
37:14
back and he'll be like yo you know you
37:17
should do a record like this you know
37:18
what I'm saying and it's just like I'm
37:19
not going out of my way to do a record
37:21
like that now Chris Brown he might send
37:24
me something you know what I mean that
37:25
that got that flavor to it and then I
37:28
you know I'll hop on it pause and that
37:30
in that in that uh space you know what I
37:32
mean because it's okay because it's a
37:34
Chris record and it's like you know I
37:36
can get busy on a record like that but
37:39
um I had a record on ADHD called 10
37:41
bands you know what I mean and that
37:43
record was real fun it was fun to me you
37:45
know it was and I had Timbo on it and it
37:47
was like a real fun record and I had the
37:49
dancers and strippers and all that and
37:51
also have my son in the video you know
37:53
but that record kind of played in this
37:55
in the strip clubs a little bit but it
37:56
wasn't for right it was the it was the
37:59
pepperoni pizza burger right it wasn't
38:01
like way left field where it was like
38:04
Make That Ass Clap girl make that ass it
38:06
wasn't like all that [ __ ] like it wasn't
38:07
that it wasn't that right it was um does
38:11
that answer your question it does answer
38:13
however you want absolutely no did no
38:15
did I answer it or you did all right
38:17
cool okay man thank you sir I appreciate
38:19
that man Jord Lucas is here we we
38:21
unfortunately we got to bring this to a
38:24
WAP uh PMD PMD outside bring him in man
38:29
we got this come bring him in you Haven
38:31
meet PMD what you I know I never met him
38:33
but I actually a while ago I actually um
38:36
I I wrapped over like almost all their
38:38
beats oh wow yeah let's make let's make
38:41
this happen man bring would you like to
38:44
meet him yeah yeah sure yeah I meet him
38:46
yeah all right while while we're
38:47
bringing them in U did you hear the
38:49
recent um Kendrick Lamar um I checked it
38:53
out last night check it out man I
38:54
checked it out what do you know Kendrick
38:56
Lamar we talked about this a song yeah
38:58
on future and Metro Bran's new record
39:00
and he he goes after Drake and uh get
39:02
that like for and jcole and and what you
39:06
know what I like about this is I I you
39:09
don't hear much about people wanting to
39:12
hold the title yeah yeah yeah be the
39:14
king of rap what are your thoughts on
39:16
that is that is that in your desires nah
39:19
to be honest with you like I don't
39:20
really I never really had a desire to be
39:22
the king of anything right it's just not
39:25
my personality to be self-proclaimed to
39:29
anything right I just kind of like allow
39:31
people to place me where they want to
39:33
place me and um but that doesn't mean
39:37
I'm not competitive yeah I just ain't
39:39
never really care to be like I'm the
39:41
best I'm the king I'm the best rapper in
39:44
the world right it's all subjective
39:46
right it's like I think a lot of people
39:49
say um you should want to be the best so
39:53
you should you should say you're the
39:55
best and nobody's better than you right
39:56
I've heard I seen an interview with
39:58
Charles Barkley the other day he was
40:00
younger Charles Barkley and they were
40:02
asking him about Jordan and he was like
40:04
man like they asked him if he thought he
40:05
was better than Jordan he was like of
40:07
course I'm better than Jordan and it was
40:09
like why'd you say that like you know
40:10
you're not better than Jordan and he was
40:11
like well you know I feel like it's weak
40:14
to say somebody else is better than you
40:16
I disagree with that right I don't feel
40:18
like that at all I feel like there's a
40:19
lot of artists that are better than me m
40:21
him is better than me you know I think
40:24
um you know I think Drake is better than
40:26
me you know what I mean like I think I
40:28
don't have a problem saying that do I
40:30
feel like that makes me weak people
40:31
might look at me as weak for saying that
40:33
but that's just how I feel right I I I
40:36
feel like certain artists are better
40:37
than me do I feel like Drake is a better
40:39
Storyteller record than me [ __ ] no right
40:41
right he can't there's no way he can
40:43
paint he can't he can't make a uh I'm
40:46
not racist you know Dr can't make a Ross
40:48
C he can't make a best for me but he
40:51
might be able to make a single he can
40:53
make God's plan I can't make that [ __ ]
40:55
right he can he can make [ __ ]
40:58
hotline blink I can't do that [ __ ] right
41:00
and he can hop into all these different
41:02
you know lanes and [ __ ] and do all these
41:04
different controller and all these other
41:06
[ __ ] I can't do that he's a hybrid like
41:08
for real he could sing and [ __ ] like I
41:10
can't sing but I think he's overall
41:12
better than me his stats you know from
41:14
all of the things he could do that I
41:16
can't Kendrick I think you know can get
41:18
lyrically better than me he get busy you
41:21
know what I'm saying and I love that
41:22
about Kendrick so no to answer your
41:24
question um I don't care about being the
41:27
I have no problem with saying other
41:29
rappers I think that are better than me
41:31
and I'm just a fan you know of other
41:33
artists bro I really don't care to be
41:35
the best bro that's wow join a Lucas man
41:38
this has been a a wonderful conversation
41:40
right here brother and and we going to
41:42
make listen
41:44
so this man sitting next to you is
41:47
Iconic for so many reasons PMD from EPMD
41:51
Paris Smith is here bro yo come on P you
41:56
know you know
41:57
you already know P you already ready
41:59
come on come on P all right let's go
42:01
come on P cuz when Pete came in the game
42:04
we talking about the Kendrick and Drake
42:06
and and J Cole thing that's starting to
42:08
brew up now we're I like you know I like
42:11
competitive rap [ __ ] that's what I'm the
42:13
wake up show dude that's what we do
42:14
right right right um and when you came
42:17
in you know you guys had a you know it
42:19
was heated up with rock Kim yes big time
42:22
like right yeah and and you you didn't
42:24
shy away from that no not at all right
42:27
no why not because I understood the
42:31
respect and where it started okay rockim
42:33
was first I came through the door I said
42:35
it before never let the mic we lived in
42:38
Brentwood Bay Shore rockhim came from
42:41
wine dance so when you're a student of
42:43
Hip Hop and you don't have a contract
42:46
and rockim is already moving around
42:48
doing shows and he has the 190 parked in
42:50
front of the house with the blue rag top
42:53
and you have enough heart where the sign
42:56
says in the lab do not disturb and you
42:59
see everybody's taking heed
43:01
but I knock and he opens the door and he
43:05
gives the conversation okay so no matter
43:08
how big I perceived or hip-hop perceived
43:10
me to be it's rock him first and the
43:13
respect because once you lose that you
43:15
kind of Lose Yourself yeah you want to
43:17
be bigger than the game okay when me
43:20
personally what I learned it's about
43:22
operating out of your Stillness in the
43:24
fertile soil that you first started with
43:27
M and that was an observer listening to
43:29
Eric B and rock Kim come on radio when
43:32
it was only an hour so you had to catch
43:34
all of this so when it was your time you
43:36
just was speaking from the heart people
43:38
around town seing this and that cuz that
43:40
was the real pressure you sound like the
43:41
r yeah you had to keep it real with
43:43
yourself but then yo dropped the album
43:46
strictly business you thought we would
43:47
fold 30 days later the lp went go so I
43:50
stayed true to
43:51
myself but with inside my inner self I
43:55
have the respect because it was Rock him
43:57
flow that gave me confirmation that yo
44:00
three Towns over the slow flow we can do
44:03
this interesting cuz that's kind of what
44:06
you were saying so do you feel like so
44:07
you feel like you know Rockham is a
44:10
better artist than you see I heard what
44:13
you said you answered it perfect yeah so
44:16
it's like uh I couldn't answer that
44:19
question because of the amount of
44:20
respect that I have for rock him so
44:22
every time I see Rock him it's like I'm
44:24
back to the same guy not to mention I
44:26
was driving a 60 Camaro that I built
44:28
myself so I would have to drive it to
44:30
wine dance and then see Rock Kim's car
44:33
out there so my whole point is long as
44:35
you stay balanced with yourself the way
44:37
you started the game then it's endless
44:40
and it's infinite but if you try to pass
44:43
the people who inspired you now you're
44:45
in the zone all by yourself and you
44:48
better know what you're doing but do you
44:49
feel like my question is do you are you
44:53
somebody that feels like I'm the best or
44:57
are you like a yo honestly this person's
45:00
I think this person's pen game is better
45:01
than mine like are can you give it up to
45:04
to that pause can you can you give it up
45:07
to other artists like that um enough to
45:11
you know Stand Down stand down and say
45:14
you know what this per this person is
45:16
better than me like and I ain't got no
45:17
op I you know I ain't got you know what
45:20
I'm saying no no no Pride about it no
45:22
ego about it this [ __ ] is the the King
45:24
right of this [ __ ] like I come after him
45:27
pause but he's the he's the goat when it
45:29
comes to this [ __ ] right and it's like I
45:32
haven't heard another artist in this
45:34
game say that [ __ ] about any other
45:36
artist because everything is all about
45:38
but that's the problem there's a big
45:39
difference between yeah selfless and
45:42
selfishness mhm selfless you keep going
45:45
so you're just a student and you're a
45:47
fan of the game so you move forward
45:49
right selfishness is like yo it's about
45:51
me right okay where I didn't come in
45:54
like that I came in uh run house tour we
45:58
didn't have money for the tour bus so
45:59
Run DMC Jam Master J let us ride on
46:01
their bus for free wow okay and we was
46:04
new Jacks so again now that we grow in
46:07
the game you can't jump out there like
46:09
they didn't do that for you right you
46:11
wasn't in a position the other guys had
46:12
to pay for their for their tour bus so
46:15
when you could be honest with yourself
46:17
right okay that's when you could uh move
46:19
further so what you talking about has
46:22
never really been talked about up until
46:24
this point how come there's been a
46:26
problem just like giving another artist
46:29
is credit for and even if he was nicer
46:32
than you because there's some artists
46:34
that I see when I'm out there that I'm a
46:36
fan right you know you're so good at
46:38
what you do right so you never could see
46:40
you but then when somebody you admire
46:42
comes through you oh my goodness now you
46:44
know how your fans feel about you and I
46:46
feel the same way about artists like M
46:49
like I don't I like I I can't write
46:51
another stand like stand is masterfully
46:54
written right yeah Nas I gave you power
46:58
yeah master master written I can't write
47:02
that he got a song called backwards
47:05
right my backwards is a little bit
47:06
different I'm lyrically acrobat and
47:08
backwards [ __ ] say it one word say it
47:10
back he's telling a story backwards it's
47:13
the most beautifullest [ __ ] I ever heard
47:14
in my life he's saying words backwards
47:17
you know what I'm saying I said up he go
47:19
jump he there like what the [ __ ] I'm I'm
47:22
like listening to this [ __ ] and then the
47:23
story starts from me the craziest [ __ ] I
47:25
ever heard in my life right like Nas is
47:29
a better storytelling artist than me
47:31
right there he is a better he got that
47:33
hands down bro I don't even want to
47:35
[ __ ] [ __ ] with that like and then you
47:36
got to go to Slick Rick of course Slick
47:38
Rick is a better Storyteller than Nas
47:40
right and it's like it's fine we can say
47:42
that but are you can you
47:45
say rock Kim is a better rapper than
47:49
me I would have to say yeah okay all
47:52
right and that's real that's real [ __ ]
47:53
Round of Applause man come on man I'm
47:55
glad this
47:57
yo check out the Jordan Lucas podcast
48:00
coming soon right okay real a lot of
48:04
artists yo like Slick Rick like you know
48:06
the Storyteller I could do Jane you know
48:09
we could do all Jane and stuff like that
48:11
but when it comes to telling stories
48:14
Slick Rick got that let's do this man
48:16
join Lucas it's a absolute
48:19
pleasure they're trying to dismiss me
48:21
for 20 I'm not having Jordan we got to
48:24
get the [ __ ] up out of here no no no no
48:25
that's not what okay but I wanted to
48:28
make this moment happen cuz Pete he used
48:30
to rap over y'all instrumentals and I'm
48:33
very familiar with him cuz I be up there
48:35
in Boston I be moving around yeah he's
48:37
like got so much love up there not only
48:39
from a hip-hop standpoint of view but
48:41
from a business
48:43
standpoint I just was up there two weeks
48:45
ago and on the parkway yo you're right
48:48
there so they point out yo you big up
48:50
there that's what the whole thing about
48:51
maintaining is when you have people
48:53
following you you don't want to let them
48:54
down I I appreciate join the Lucas man
48:58
uh we got peris Smith is here too um
49:01
join the Lucas got the new album that's
49:03
out now you doing the tour too right not
49:05
now I'm busy not now I'm busy the tour
49:08
uh between May Millies and D okay we
49:12
will be
49:16
there

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