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My name is Michael Podolsky
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I'm super excited to have Chief Behavioral Officer at ClickSuation Labs, who is a consultant
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consumer psychologist and business strategy consultant. I have not had any idea that consumer psychologist exists
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Can you describe to me consumer buying decision process? Yes and no
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I say no because every consumer makes a different decision for every product or service
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I'll give you some examples. Some items, you and I as consumers will purchase and others as well, based upon convenience
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based upon cost, based upon availability. Think about early in the pandemic when Amazon said, well, it's not going to be two-day shipping for prime
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It's now three days. And consumers are freaking out. goodness is three days. I can't wait that long. And now we're looking for alternate sources
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to buy that same product of service. So the convenience isn't there. But if we would ask consumers
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what is it that you really want in the product? What do you want out of this item? The most
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common answer we're going to hear from consumers is free or low cost. But if we look at
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that's the utilitarian side, is the low cost, no cost. But if we look at the actual engagement
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between consumer and brand, we would know that cost really isn't a factor
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I'll give a story. So let's say you're shopping for a brand new TV
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We've done your Google reviews. You've talked to your friend. You find this perfect 4K, 60-inch television set
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You go to your local store and you say, I like that TV on the wall
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The salesperson says, Michael, you made an excellent choice. Woo! I'm a smart customer
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I made an excellent choice today. But then the salesperson says, Michael, I've got to be honest with you
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If you go to our sister store that's five miles away, you can get that same $1,000 TV for $20 less, for $980
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How likely are you to drive five miles to save $20 on a $1,000 item
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Most people would say no, a few would say yes. So let's continue that journey
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So let's say two weeks go by and you love your television set
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You're thinking, okay, I need a DVD player to augment my, um
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my new TV. So you do Google reviews, you talk to your friends
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you find the perfect DVD player. You go back to the store. The customer service agent says
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Michael, welcome back. How can I help you? I like that DVD player. Michael, you made an excellent choice
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Woo! A smart customer again. But Michael, I got to be honest with you
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if you go to our sister store that's five miles away, you can get that same $40 DVD player
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for half off, for $20. How likely are you to drive five miles
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to save $20 on a $40 item? you're probably going to drive
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So most people would drive for the DVD player and most people would not drive for the TV. At the end of the day, it's still a $20 discount
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But compared to what it's anchored to, it changes our decision-making process
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Think about when we are buying a brand new car. And the salesperson says, Michael
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this car, 35,000 bananas, but you can get this super duper cool stereo system
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for 500 bananas extra. Then we do consumer math. Okay, $500 on a $75,000
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month long, at 2% interest, absolutely throw it in there. It's practically free at this point
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So you get this $500 stereo. But if we ask most people who owns a $500 stereo outside of their car
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most people would say, no, that's too expensive. If you love music, awesome. But when it's
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anchored compared to a $35,000 vehicle, it's like practically free at that point
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So it's the base of the cost that makes a job. judgment for, it's how the thing is marketed, pretty much
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The example I gave with, the example I gave with the TV is showing that price is not
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only the primary concern for consumers. The example I previous gave shows that potentially
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convenience matters as well. But then, or anchoring. So let's look at anchoring again
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one price compared to another. When looking at anchoring, if I was to say
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all right, you go to your neighborhood grocery store and there's two bottles of wine on the shelf
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One costs $19 and one cost $9. Now, $9, $19, which one would you buy for yourself
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Most people would say the $9, oh, it's just me, no big deal
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The bottle alone would you just fine But then it the same two products and we change the question and say which one of these bottles of wine would you buy to take to a friend house for dinner Most people would
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change their answer and say the $19 bottle of wine to avoid looking like that cheap friend who shows
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up with a lower cost bottle of wine. But then here's where anchoring comes in. So let's say there's
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three bottles on the shelf, $9, $19, and $99. The $99 bottle of wine is not meant to be sold. It's an anchor
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It's there to make the $19. The $19.1.001 look more reasonable. Because in that micromo, when you see the three bottles and three prices, in a micrormon
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your brain processes, that's ridiculous, too much money, 19's fine. So when it's 9 and 19, the 9 looks reasonable
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When it's 9, 1999, the $19 bottle line looks reasonable. Therefore, by having the anchor of the $99 bottle of wine and the consumer buys the $19 bottle of wine
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the store potentially increased their revenue. by $10 per bottle or a little over 100%
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But those examples are just perfect, Michael. Thank you. You can pet yourself on the back just like that consumer
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that is a smart consumer. Love this. In the past 20 years, marketing has changed
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20 years ago, internet was starting, well, 25 years ago. Internet was starting
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We've had a lot of TV ads that were the most expensive
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then that's where most of the budgets was going, right? Big brands were going into TV
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Then radio ads, perhaps, and then billboards. Now we have Internet. Internet marketing
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How is the split happening right now? Where is it consumers are most likely to be
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attention of consumers could be gathered. Is it online ads, TV ads, radio
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ads, how do you make determination where the company shall advertise to gain its popularity
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That's a great question. I would focus on going back to the avatars. So let's say we're
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targeting Joyful Jane or Boisterous Bob. Focus on their behaviors. So in the example I gave
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earlier, Boistris Bob lives within 100 miles of a major metropolitan area. So maybe targeting Boister's
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Bob in Chey and Wyoming might not be the best. location. So let's focus on the behaviors of that avatar and then match our measurable
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objectives and marketing campaigns to the individual consumer. Let's say, for example
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you and I are the managers of restaurants that are along Interstate 95 on the east side of the
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U.S. Maybe our best marketing might be, if it's non-digital, maybe it's billboards on the
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Interstate nearby where the restaurants are located, maybe 20 miles out. Getting hungry soon
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Here's the next restaurant. But then also we can geo-fence rest stops or certain areas along the interstate as well
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so people receive digital ads while they're traveling as well. Now, people shouldn't be using their mobile devices while they're driving, but we both know
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that people do anyway. Yes, understood. Like those ads in Waze applications that do pop up and recommend your restaurants as you
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drive through, completely understood. Let's talk a little bit about consumers. Consumers hate the advertisement
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Are there easy ways to get rid of advertisements in your life? That's a great topic
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So at a marketing conference about a year ago, we conducted a survey
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And we asked people on a scale of 1-3-9 on a liquid scale, how much do they dislike marketing or ads
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And then the conference was full of marketers. And even the marketers said, oh, ads, dislike them, hate them
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You work in marketing. How can you dislike ads? So it's not that we dislike ads
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We dislike me, I'll say we as consumers. We dislike being sold to
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We dislike being pitched to. Someone recently said a quote that I really enjoy, and it was, America is a web of scams
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I'm a proud American. I live in America. I enjoy my country. But I would agree that every way you turn, someone's trying to scam you
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So it's not so much that we dislike advertising as we dislike the scam
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However, if the advertising doesn't appear to be advertising, and it's maybe a little more enjoyable, like Super Bowl ads
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We don't like commercials or ads, but we sit in front of the TV during the Super Bowl
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to capture those best moments with those commercials. So as long as it's fun, it's memorable, it's remarkable
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it's not really advertising. So the moment someone says, here's what I could do for you
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here's what our brand can do for you, that becomes a sales pitch. So if we leave the sales pitch out of the conversation
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it's one barrier removed to make it a little more experiential. But more so you and I and a lot of consumers receive targeted ads You might think like oh I need a new mattress and now you receive mattress ads for the next three weeks
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But in studies to compare how people engage with targeted ads compared to non-targeted ads
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consumers experience and displayed more emotions of happiness with the targeted ads more so than the non-targeted ads
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Because they feel like if with the non-targeted ads, that brands are just shooting, pitching
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sales pitches, the things that are not relevant to their life. So even though we can say that
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or I'm going to quote the other person, say, America is a web of scams, and we'll return some
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marketing. Once the marketing turns non-relevant or non-targeted, it begins to feel a little more
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salesy, a little more spammy, and we enjoy it a lot less. So as long as it's targeted, it's
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relevant, and it's fun, and it's not a sales pitch, I think most consumers, based upon the research
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are not only one to tolerate, hence they also enjoy it as well. When I studied from
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business school they taught us special marketing tricks on how to place bubble gum next to the
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cash register why well bin shopping happens there consumers just buy it just because they see it
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while they're waiting in line and it is actually i believe the most profitable area of the entire store
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right before the cash register because people are standing and waiting in line
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That's in-store shopping. Online shopping is a bit different. There's a lot
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So I'm going to build on the examples that you provide it. So let's start with the grocery store
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and then let's go to the online card version. So first off, for the consumers
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and people who are watching, the grocery store is one of the most persuasive environments
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in sales and marketing. every way you turn in the grocery store you're being persuaded to
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Let's start by walking into the grocery store. When you walk into the grocery store, more than likely, the first thing you're going to see are flowers, fresh flowers
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So when you walk through those doors and you see flowers, what the brand is doing is they're priming the consumer's brain to assume that they see flowers
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Flowers are the fresh thing on this planet. Therefore, everything beyond that front door is also equally as fresh
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So you're primed to think everything is fresh and you welcome their front door. Now, as you're journeying through the grocery store and you make it to the checkout
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So if you were to go to the checkout line about 20, 25 years ago, you might have that refrigerator that has like the sodas and the waters
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It's still there today. But the top of that refrigerator is flat with nothing on top of it 20 years ago
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And so the point in the grocery store, when the consumer says, you know what, I really don't need this box of cereal
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That point is when you're at the point of sale, the checkout
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The point of purchase is when you take it off the shop, the point of sales is when you pay for it
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So at the point of sale, when you're ready to pay for it, you're like, ah, the cereal, I don't need it. So you're like going to take it out of your cart and put it on that flat top of that refrigerator
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Now, if you go to most grocery stores today, you're not going to see that flat top. You're going to see an a frame with your bubble gum, your snickers, your candy, et cetera, going up
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Because you can't put something down on an a frame. There's no flat surface. and it's not socially acceptable to take your gallon of milk and put it on the floor and say I don't want this anymore
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So therefore, out of social pressure, you're more likely to buy it. So let's do some basic math
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Let's just say milk costs $3 a gallon, $3 a gallon, one decision point every hour to not to purchase that milk or to where you would not buy it
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So $3 per hour times $8 hours a day per lane is $24 a day per lane
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there's five lanes open in that's the grocery market times that by five times up by three and six five days that's how much revenue that the a frame potentially saves an organization just by redesigning the top of the grocery cart now on the online version as you're putting stuff into your shopping cart here's where it really gets good right how likely are you to buy something if you have to pay for shipping oh shipping no way that's horrible i want to pay for shipping you've lost your you've lost your mind so you go to
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You're on your favorite website and you put $91 of product into your cart
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And then, Michael, you receive a prompt that says free shipping at $99. So, okay, I'll go back
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I'll put more stuff in my cart. So you go back shopping. Now, the average cost of an item on that website costs $20
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Shipping costs six. So you can check out $91 plus $6 for $97
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But no, you want free shipping. So you go back to the website. You pick an item that costs $20
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Now, your cart costs $11. for free shipping So you actually spending more money to feel good over free shipping than you would if you were to just pay for the shipping So it gamification included into the checkout process but more so before you get to that point you might have a prompt that says here what others also purchased with your item
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And that's social proof. Social proof is phenomenally persuasive, saying that, here, I'll just say the phrase
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the most persuasive thing you can do as a marketer show that other people are doing it too
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Now, Michael, if you and I were driving over a bridge and people on the left hand side were jumping off the bridge
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Now, I know that you're smart enough to jump off the bridge as well, but you're curious enough to pull over and say, why are people jumping over this bridge
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Consumer reviews. Of course, you know which site I represent, is the consumer
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What do you think about our site? Well, reviews are important. It goes back to that social proof aspect
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So let's say, remember, let's go back to that quote. America is a web of scams
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I didn't quote that. I don't recall the name of quote it, but I don't remember. I like the quote because it's got some saliency to it
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Now, when we go to a website and we're like, hmm, I really want to buy, I'm going to use my own phone as an example, I'm going to take it apart
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I really want to buy that new case from my phone. So I go to this website and I never shop here before
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The MasterCard logo is a little blurry. The American Express logo is a little blurry
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Some of the fonts a little off. Like my spam radar is high
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So I'm like, hmm, is this real? So next place it goes to the reviews
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Let's see what the reviews say. All right. Well, if the reviews were all five stars
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if there's 3,000 people who review and they're all five stars, my spidey sense is still up
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It seems too good to be true. So I'm probably not going to listen to it. Now, if there's 3,000 reviews and the average star is 4.7
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I'm like, okay, I'm going to look at a few of the good reviews, and then I'm going to go right to the one-star reviews
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they're only going all the bad things people say. And so we'd like to know what other people say
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And this is extremely important for younger generations. When I say younger generations, those who are about 36 years of age or younger are likely to look at the reviews
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whereas those who are 37 years of age or older, as of today, as of 2022, I'm dating myself here on this answer
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So as of 2020, 37 years or age or older are likely to ask their friends for recommendations where 36 or younger is more likely to take recommendations to people they don't know by reviews
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So those reviews give us in context. And in that younger group, those consumers like to make decisions, informed decisions based upon what other people have said
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Well, it looks like John gave it four stars because the postal employee left it on the bottom step of their front suit
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Okay. Is that really relatable to the product? Probably not. Let me go to the next one
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Okay. Arrived, damaged, and the packaging was broken. Did not work. Return to the bit. Okay
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Now I'm concerned. This is what I'm going to look for other reviews. that match that same description to see if it's true or not
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And I say I, I'm playing the role of the majority of consumers
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This is how consumers behave and engage. And as soon as they feel like, okay, I'm willing to take that leap and trust this company
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then I'll start my credit card. So the reviews are a significant decision point for consumer decision making
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It provides that social proof and potentially some closure and clarity for what they're buying
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with some of a brand I've never purchased one previously. Thank you very much. Michael, I really enjoyed this conversation
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It's been a pleasure. Is there anything you would like to wrap up this conversation
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with any message you want to send to the best consumers? If you don't have a need for the product of service
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I would ask yourself, why are you? Why are you purchasing this product of service
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And we can always define need in different ways. So I play baseball
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I need to have the newest, latest, greatest baseball bat. But I don't need it to survive
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But if I was to go, say, play basketball once a year with my friends, I don't need to have
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the latest basketball shoes I can get buying what I wear every day. Not only as a consumer psychologist, but I'm also an entrepreneur, I lead a brand in research
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and consulting. And reviews are important. I appreciate reviews. If a review comes in from my organization, whether positive, neutral, and negative, I read it
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and I respond. Because it's important. It means that consumer took time out of the day to engage with that
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us. And although not every brand is going to maybe respond to you, most brands are listening
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And if you have a challenge or concern with product or selling customer service
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I'll fill in the blank challenge, let them know. If you had a great experience
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let them know as well, because brands more than likely are reading, they're listening
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if not responding, they are then advocating or using that information to enhance their
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processes and build a better experience for you the consumer