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The Scoop Episode 2: Can Vegan Athletes Compete with Meat Eaters?
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Jan 30, 2025
Do vegans have what it takes to take on meat-eating competitors? On this episode of Myprotein’s The Scoop, we’ll be pitting meat eating bodybuilder, Matt Morsia, against vegan athlete, Emelye Dwyer. Emelye’s got the answers on how she meets her nutrition goals to be at the top of her game while Matt reveals why he won’t be going vegan. Listen and subscribe to get the scoop. @MattDoesFitness
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0:03
it's david law here and welcome back to my proteins brand new podcast called the scoop where we do just that we get you to scoop on the
0:09
most nail-biting intense and controversial topics in fitness with our expert guests providing the information to help you make your mind
0:15
up on what to believe topics discussed in gyms pubs and just about anywhere around the world
0:20
surrounding sports nutrition and training this is where you're going to get the scoop today's topic is surely one for the
0:28
times and that is can vegan athletes really compete with meat eating athletes
0:33
to discuss this we've got two guests emily dwyer and my protein athlete and vegan
0:39
crossfitter and matt morsia and my protein ambassador bodybuilder end
0:44
meat eater how's it going peeps i'm really good thank you i'm good thanks mate very good yeah i'm
0:50
hot i'm like bordering on too hot but i'm okay i'm hanging in there yeah it is it is
0:55
bacon absolutely bacon it's a it's a hot day out here today [Music]
1:01
all right we're gonna kick this off obviously this is a strong topic here but to kick it off a little
1:06
bit lightly we're gonna go through a little um a little this or that questions if you
1:12
this or that question so our listeners and watchers can get to know you a lot um get to know you a lot
1:18
a little bit more so i'm going to kick start with you em emily don't worry it's not too many questions about five of them um
1:25
okay let's go cats or dogs oh that's really hard on cats high reps
1:31
or heavy weights high reps uh protein pancakes or overnight oats
1:38
or protein pancakes spinach or kale kale uh three legs or three arms
1:47
three arms [Laughter] yes bicep heavy i see you all right matt
1:55
i see you uh matt let's go uh dancing or singing geez like neither but
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if i had to i guess probably singing singing yeah uh indoor outdoor training
2:08
indoor deadlifts or squats probably currently dead lifts but fairly
2:15
even [Laughter] chicken or beef
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ah i could have said chicken but again fairly even these are difficult you're deliberately picking ones that are well similar
2:29
never shower again or never wear clothes never you're absolutely killing me here
2:36
i'm gonna say never wear clothes but i could just fashion clothes out of
2:43
things right technically if i was to wrap myself in a in a curtain that's not closed but i'm you
2:48
know everyone's a winner i see what you're trying to do here i've beaten you your own game it's not in the rules
2:54
you didn't explain that so it's done do it's locked in it's a certified stalker situation
3:04
oh my days yeah emmy was very straightforward with yours matt he was fine that was right i'm sorry
3:09
life was death i feel like that's that was just they were tough some of those they were very like yeah they were the fine margins there
3:16
i'm a people pleaser so you know you you said quick fire and i thought got to obey this i'm not i'm like not very good at quick
3:23
fire stuff i need to analyze things in more depth i can't handle it [Laughter]
3:28
i see you is that the same with your training are you a slow rep i am an absolute rain man like i love
3:33
tracking things and obsessively like measuring every single element of everything i'm like an absolute dork in
3:39
that sense how about yourself man oh yeah i really
3:44
love data i think that's one of the brilliant things about the uh quasi sport and you know i guess it is a
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sport that i participate in as it's so binary you know you're either the fittest fastest or
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strongest or you're not so there's lots of things you can track on there i really enjoy that i get a lot
4:01
out of data crossfit's awesome for that right because there's just such a like plethora of events i mean so there's literally like an
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endless list of events slash you know lifts or whatever to do you can just be hitting pr's like
4:13
constantly that's what like there was a time and they're not not that far back but you know what i mean in the sense
4:19
that particularly if you were new to it there's like if you're a powerlifter if you're a powerlifter right you've got three main lifts that's it right as a crossfitter
4:25
if something is going bad or you can you've got so many other things to explore experience yeah you know what i mean i think that's
4:30
awesome because it's like it just makes it so fun you know you've got so in theory i know obviously there's lots of horrible
4:36
stuff but it makes it fun in the sense that you can just keep doing like you keep getting better at you yeah there's more
4:41
things to get better at i guess basically you know absolutely yeah that's one of the great things about the class atmosphere is you
4:47
get a lot of adherence people see themselves improving on different things so they keep coming back for more yeah
4:52
you're right yeah just weaning us um our main topic of today right um which
4:58
is can vegan athletes really compete with me eating athletes uh m you're a vegan
5:03
athlete um i'm gonna start with you i'm gonna ask you know where did your journey start with veganism was you was it from a
5:09
young age or yeah talk to us about that so um
5:14
i have always grown up um around animals um and in a very animal focused family
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um so lots of dogs from a young age and i've always had a real affinity with um non-human species in
5:29
that sense um normally i mean a lot of people agree that they probably prefer to spend the evening with their dog
5:34
than a couple of people who they know that's quite a common thing you see nowadays
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um i think as soon as i made the connection between um the animals that i was in and around
5:45
my life and the lifeless you know completely non-animal looking
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thing on my plate or in my cereal um once i'd made the the connection with
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them i mean you know initially the veganism side of things was much later in my life but the vegetarian
6:02
side of things i was in and out of all throughout my childhood as i kind of played around with it and it's quite a big thing
6:07
within my family as well um i turned my mum vegan which is cool and my sister
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and my boyfriend um not not because i get nectar points for turning people vegan it's not because of
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that it's purely just because i feel so strongly about um the industry and the care of animals that
6:27
you can't help but talk passionately about it and i think when you do talk passionately about it people you know you and they feel your
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emotion people go oh hang on a minute they've got a point here but no um veganism came to me a little bit later on um initially about 10 years
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ago when i first turned vegan i then had a load of dietary issues
6:46
that have been a result of um malnutrition when i was younger because i um it's quite i talk about it
6:52
very openly that i struggled with an eating disorder for near on 20 years yeah and this has
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caused me a lot of digestion issues which actually um turning vegan has helped
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with because i used to react to all sorts of animal products and have a severe allergy to milk
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actually but um i kind of came out of veganism
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very very momentarily while we tried to address whether what my allergies were
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and i had to eat fish and chicken for a while which i really struggled with mentally and i think when you're putting something in
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your mouth that you morally don't agree with and it you know it upsets you that's going to cause more digestive issues
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from there on as well in terms of cortisol and not being able to absorb things properly so i've now been back being vegan i
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realize i'm digressing but i think it's good for people to know that you know it's not always linear and we're not perfect
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and you can go away from things and come back to them and i don't sit here and you know protest that i am 100 the
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perfect vegan um i accidentally killed a wasp this morning and i'm already you know upset about still upset about it
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unbelievable
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she's a fraud um but no um i've been back being vegan now for
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about three and a half years but veggie kind of before that and yeah mindset
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wise i feel so much more at home with my feelings and who i am as a person i feel like i'm not pretending in myself anymore
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you know so yeah no definitely um there's a lot of things there that you mentioned there that we're going to uh
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be sure to touch on i want to bring in in that on this map what's your what's how's your journey been like with food
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have you did you always grow up in a meat eating household have you just been about to meet life or how how's um how's how the meat life i'm all
8:39
about me like so to be honest right to be honest i i think i guess i don't fall into the
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stereotypical like guy that goes to the gym that like eats loads of chicken and loves meat like i wouldn't put i'm not
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really in that category at all like i don't really to be honest i i would say my primary
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motivation for eating meat now is like it's bad but convenient to be honest like i'm not
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i don't love eating meat in fact i'm not even i could easily be vegetarian i'm not fast i don't i don't ever think oh i really feel like eating some meat now i
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don't ever crave it it's just a convenience thing to be honest and that's always been i mean like i
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also have a i have a very very fast metabolism i always have my siblings share that so i've all i've always been like i've
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always eaten loads of food like i'm not again in terms of diet like i don't conform to
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probably again the like fitness industry stereotype of being like really methodical with my diet and like i basically i'll gladly eat like
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crap you know eat like mcdonald's and pizza like from time to time um
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yeah yeah um um and i mean i've like basically might like i'd say my diet is probably is definitely less than optimal
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i think i'm mindful of like you know macronutrients and calories as a whole but i definitely have a more laid-back
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approach than i'd say most people uh yeah i mean i've always eaten loads of food i've always eaten i've always enjoyed food like i probably
10:01
enjoy food too much like i've had i've competed so i used to be um a long and triple jump i did that for
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like 10 years so as a triple jumper like your weight is is is crucial you know ultimately it's all about your your power to weight
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ratio so you basically you basically want to be as light as you possibly can whilst maintaining performance so i spent like years trying
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to be as light as i could and not really knowing how to do that so just you know manipulating my diet in a
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in a really bad way just literally cutting calories um and then i then i became a power
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lifter and i had the i had the opposite i was trying to fill out my weight category trying to gain weight and with my
10:37
metabolism with my metabolism it's really hard to do that so i was essentially force-feeding myself for like months and
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months on end um so i've had yeah like i guess a weird a weird approach to food and diet but
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the overriding theme has just been that like i love i love food i love donuts and stuff you know so like
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yeah that's a big part of my life in in in the sense that i just enjoy i enjoy eating food you know i look like
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that is a large part of my life is like looking forward to eating eating good food basically honestly
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that is you that is me in a nutshell and to be honest with you a lot of a lot of our listeners will have that
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same um relationship with food to that expert to that extent like me food is like life yeah
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yeah it's bad it's bad isn't it yeah yeah yeah but it's like it's like you know i was saying i was i
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was i was talking about this i was having a conversation about this before when i was like for me i train in essence to some degree
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because i like to eat do something yeah
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i also super like eating so i know that i'd probably be a hot mess if i didn't
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actually train so like it's that's like a but it makes sense right because it's like you can have an hour of doing something hard a
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day and then have another like 15 hours of enjoying your life or you could have like you know spend all your time
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restricting your calories horribly and just not enjoying like that's why i tell people all the time you know it's like
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short-term loss for long-term gain or whatever you're just doing something horrible for a little bit each day and then in return you can just have a way
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better life on a physiological level of course though kind of looking and as
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um obviously i'm a performance athlete at the moment you know obviously you know matt you have been in the past but predominantly now
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mostly aesthetics am i correct literally i i literally train oh you know what the last
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so i stopped powerlifting a few years ago competitively i've been in a couple of years i i am primarily a youtuber so my primary
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goal is just to make good content right the last few months i've definitely shifted my focus to trying to get strong
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again so my training is still now centered around performance i'm trying to be strong like i don't really
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i don't enjoy bodybuilding training for me is just like boring i'd rather i'd rather set fire to my face you know
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so like i enjoy i enjoy training for strength wow and trying to get strong
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that was extreme i'll tear back i wouldn't rather do that but yeah i my primary motivation for training now is to get stronger because it's more fun
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you know but i don't compete i don't compete but yeah i know i'm assuming if you're gonna say about like performance-based absolutely
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yeah having a terrible diet although you could conform in a macronutrient calorie sense it's definitely going to have an
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impact on the food for sure yeah i'm going to say because you know you can't out train a bad diet and i think that's where it comes down
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to in terms of when people try to say you know a vegan diet versus an omnivorous diet
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or a meat-eating diet yeah um um you know both have their pros and cons
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you can have a terrible diet eating both ways you know yeah so and it's all about awareness
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absolutely so that's true very true like a lot of people off the bat think that eating
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having a vegan diet equals healthy from that perspective and that's not
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that's not always the case is it no absolutely not i mean of course there is the immediate benefit that you're
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having far fewer um you know animals things animal fats and those
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real saturated fats in your diet purely just by eliminating animal products and not having them there you're also shielding yourself from the
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potential [Music] taking in of hormone contaminated
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meats and milks and things like that so you're saving yourself from that but of course a lot of people go vegan
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and actually they really enjoy eating meat and those sorts of things i'm not one of those people that these new mad fandangled steaks you can
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get that have got beetroot in them that bleed um i mean my my partner he quite used to quite like certain meat
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elements he loves these steak thingies um but i see them and my tummy goes funny but um for a lot of people you
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know if they enjoyed me but they've given it up for ethical or environmental reasons having these alternatives which are so
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meaty and meat-like you know unfortunately a lot of those they are processed you know so you know
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there are lots of non-processed healthy vegan alternatives that give you so much bang for your buck in terms of
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protein and other nutrients and microbes but um that's the problem and um of
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course a lot of these big mainstream uh i'm not gonna do junk food but they are junk food companies you know um
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chicken restaurants burger restaurants those sorts of things they've all jumped on this vegan bandwagon because it's a huge
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market that they can tap into and provide for which is fantastic but also also it is you know
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it is junk food it's still junk food just because it's not cruel junk food doesn't you know negate the fact it's
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probably going to be pretty bad for your insides for you um did you you know some someone
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might say to you well you you built your muscle before you went vegan like have you ever have you ever had that
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as a um or whilst you were while she was on that journey can somebody um be vegan and
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and develop their muscles to like to wait to where you're at definitely
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um i mean i've been training now for five years um and been vegan for three of those veggie
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for five and um the majority of my muscle growth has been in the latter part of that journey um
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getting enough protein as a vegan is genuinely really easy there's a few
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little gaps that people have to plug and fill but unfortunately with modern uh farming
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industries a lot of those gaps have to be plugged for non-vegans as well so we're all kind of in the same boat in that
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that area so i'll happily come on to the intricacies of things like b12 and collagen and omegas and stuff
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later on because those are real big rabbit holes we could go down and be here for hours on but in terms of getting general
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protein yeah i mean most meat products um you're looking at between i think it's something like
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20 to 25 grams of protein um kind of in a meat product depending
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on depending on the volume of what you eat and when it comes to plant proteins and servings you're looking at between 50 to
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20 15 to 25 grams so it's not actually that far off in
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that sense the biggest issue comes to people having too much of one form of protein
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and not enough of another and not matching them up to then give themselves a full uh spectrum of amino acids and of course if
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you don't have the small full spectrum of amino acids then your body goes all these proteins they're great but i'm missing this
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middle one so i can't do anything with it so um i think of it as being like a amino acid
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to kind of like a rainbow and stop me if i'm going too scientific on this and everyone's just kind of falling asleep at their you know desks or
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they're listening um i kind of see amino acids a bit of a rainbow so um people say plants have protein and look
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at gorillas they you know the size of them and it's like that's great but we've evolved past that but they are our
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closest relative and of course they are completely um herbivore yeah um the difference is
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is with with amino acids if you see them as a rainbow spectrum certain plants will have say red orange
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yellow and green and the other plants might have um blue indigo and violet so only by matching
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certain foods together are you going to get that full rainbow and then your body can go fantastic i can i can work with
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this um but we we've been instinctively doing this for years you know like rice and peas and
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rice and pea protein is actually the my one one of the uh my vegan blends the uh the complete protein they do with the
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carbs as well so you know that that makes a full amino acid profile things like peanut butter and wholemeal toast we've got a full
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spectrum in there so you can do it and you don't have to just have a plant protein that's got the full
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amino acid profile and they are out there um chia seed quinoa and soy
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all have a full spectrum okay so yeah geeky i know i'm sorry a nice
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little educational um run through there now there was there was a lot that i picked up from matt you are
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um in essence on this uh the advocate for me all right so so the
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question is on your side is um why do you if you you mentioned a little
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while earlier that it's pure laziness but then you know isn't there an argument for the fact that meat is good
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for your diet when you want to build strength for when you want to perform okay so i mean this kind of
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ruins the debate but i wouldn't say i'm an advocate for meat right the first thing i would say straight away is that
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i i'm fairly confident that if i were to become vegan it would prolong my life expectancy
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right i'm pretty sure that that's a fact right um and i think as a general view
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i think if you were looking at overall health it would also probably improve like a number of my health markers right
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what i was saying earlier in terms of convenience that's probably my biggest driving force and i know like
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ethically speaking that's horrible if you really analyze it right if you really analyze it if you're as a meat eater
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you're essentially admitting you're not a very nice person because you're choosing to you're essentially encouraging you know
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what what happens you know the backstory of how you get meat and animal products right
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the only like the only thing i'd counter that with is that you could i know two wrongs don't make a right of course
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right but you could say that about everything like it unless you're going to devote your entire life to just to be doing
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amazing things so for example rather than doing a regular office job that doesn't really help anyone go to
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you know a third world country and devote your life to helping people or you know building schools or
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planting like food whatever it is like that you could always do more right so although i'm saying i mean i i would
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never say yeah you should definitely eat me in fact the opposite i'd say if you if you don't i mean you could argue no one needs to but i'm saying that for me
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it would make my life significantly more difficult to not eat meat or animal products if you're in that
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boat then you know it's obviously your choice but generally speaking if you can i would say go vegan because like i said
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ultimately it's going to make you a healthier person and it's almost certainly going to prolong your life expectancy so
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it's not a misconception but definitely in terms of like the amino acid profile that's a big thing because everyone says oh you know you can get you can get all the protein you need as
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a vegan and you obviously can emily already touched on the fact that you need to make sure you're getting various sources whereas with meat you
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can just eat meat you know whatever you need animal products and you're pretty much covered as a vegan you've got to be more careful
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and more meticulous in terms of choosing different stuff to get that whole spectrum um but like i said it's
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yeah so as a result of that that i know i'm sure you could get used to it and i'm sure it will become easier over time
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as you learn what you need to consume but for me at the moment in my life like i don't have
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like yeah i mean i will frequently not eat enough food because i physically haven't got time like to
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to pick up food in my hand and put it in my mouth because i'm doing stuff so any anything that's going to make that
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process easier and more convenient and specifically to me or someone that goes to the gym like i'm a fairly big
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guy like i my protein requirements are significantly higher than the average
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human so if eating animal products is going to make that process easier which it does basically it does in my opinion then
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that's what i'm doing now i know again ethically i think i disagree that i think it's like a not a nice thing to do um
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that's a different argument i guess but in term i mean in terms of performance there's absolutely no reason why you you
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don't need to eat meat like if you if you if you can devote time to to
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like i said to figure out what you need to eat as a vegan then that's not gonna have any negative impacts on performance whatsoever
22:20
it's like an old school thing isn't it like the train really hard eat loads of chicken like that's like the the like
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the the stereotypical kind of bodybuilder approach yeah yeah yeah i mean eating chicken is not magic it's not
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like got some crazy like you know components that are going to make you bigger what you're getting from that is the yeah the macronutrients and the
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essentially the protein and then the don't the only thing the only thing i don't want to do from this perspective here because
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because you're not because because of because you're not strongly on the other side what i don't want to do on this perspective is also like disregard the benefits of
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eating meat though so is there no benefits of eating chicken for example is that it's because
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i i know for example right because some of our listeners are going to be sitting there thinking wait hold on what's going on over here like this is this yeah yeah i mean i'm i eat
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meat you start saying so it's like hold on wait a minute so so everybody's gotta so i just wanna bring a bit of balance to it from there
23:12
yeah so i i'm i mean i mean i eat meat right i eat meat i actively i deliberately no one's making me do it i'm choosing to do that
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right so my two like i said main sources of motivation are convenient in my opinion it's far easier to
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it's easier to build muscle as a meat eater it's easier you can still do it as a vegan to the
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same extent but it's easier as a meat eater because the sauces in my opinion are easier to access that's the one reason i do it and then the second
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reason is that i i guess again going back to how much i love food like i don't i don't love meat i'm
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like oh i really feel like eating some meat i didn't crave meat but like it sounds to me like you like meat it sounds to me like you're like okay i do
23:49
like it a bit yeah i do i do enjoy yeah i eat chicken nuggets the other day like i enjoy eating like
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forms of meat that i mean like it's funny like emily was saying you can now get replacements right you can literally
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get something that is exactly the same in pretty much in taste and appearance as a a beef burger or a chicken nugget for
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example as a vegan um but they're yeah i mean they're hard to come by they're not
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readily available and they're equally you know processed and stuff so yeah my biggest two biggest motivations
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for eating meat are the convenience and then i guess the the enjoyment that the impact on my life em i was gonna say this i'm gonna ask
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you this question as well because like i've got a lot of friends who are vegan as well a lot of a lot of um one thing about um they will all say is
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once people become vegans they usually they also in essence become like vegan apologists
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in that sense because you mentioned you touched earlier on about how like you're out here converting like like family friends
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boyfriends everybody what is it what is it about reaching this epiphany in essence here
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with veganism that allowed that immediately the belief comes in the instagram bio
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like vegan is like pasta you know i mean it's like it's like it's it it's it's real it's um
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it's active so what is it what is it about um uh coming to that place that it's like all
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right everybo i need everybody on board from that perspective even matt sitting there matt matt's afraid to say he likes me
25:14
in your presence okay i get i do like meat but i don't
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like i i have some friends that literally love steak for something like oh i can't wait to eat steak i've never experienced that i don't love meat
25:27
i prefer donuts there is a whole you know array of food that i prefer to meet i like it i don't i don't dislike it i
25:33
like it but i'm not i'm not a meat fan you know i'm not out there like frigging with a billboard like encouraging people to eat
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meat you know yeah i think that's a really really good
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question david really good um i think it it must come down to
25:50
really the feeling that when you lose that guilt that you're not um you're not
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contributing any more deliberately um and one of my mottos is do no harm um you're not deliberately knowingly
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contributing to the suffering of animals and contributing to the
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decimation of the planet um for your own convenience or taste buds essentially or
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your own um your own well-being i mean for me there's a hierarchy as to why
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i am vegan first of all it's for the animals and unapologetically i always say that
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secondly it's for the environment but there's a very small gap between and then right down here it's about me
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and my nutrition but i have always kind of had that hierarchy as i don't see i don't see me being human as uh
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something of an ego i don't know if you've seen that lovely diagram that's kind of like a triangle with ego and then it's a circle with eco
26:44
and in the ego it's a human at the top and then all the animals and everything plants underneath and with eco it's the human and it's
26:50
inbuilt into a circle all around it i'll um try and make sure there's a link to this or something we can put it in the show notes perhaps people might like
26:57
to see that visual because it's quite powerful um and i think it comes from because i was you know saying to you guys um
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earlier but when we were getting ready for the show that this is such a an emotive subject for me and um
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i think that's that's where it comes down to you know i we we i vegan if you're vegan you don't get
27:15
nectar points or i mean other supermarket points are available oh you don't get tokens like you don't
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get goodness and brownie point tokens the free entry to heaven or whatever your greater being is you believe in
27:27
for converting people to veganism you know i'm not gonna get a guaranteed place um in the sky it is purely because
27:35
we i think we feel so passionately about the reasons behind it and when you are that passionate about
27:40
something and you speak about it with such um i guess you try and you try and
27:46
educate yourself so you can speak about it with a little bit of intellect or for some people where when it is an
27:51
emotional subject they can get a bit flustered and that's when i think people have developed the opinion that
27:58
all vegans are preachy and this kind of thing don't preach at me and you're gonna feel preached at if somebody's speaking to you about
28:04
something regarding ethics that you haven't quite bought into yet because it makes you feel
28:11
like you're being judged you know and you know our vegans they think they're better than everybody else and in the sense that when it comes down to an
28:17
ethical level the whole do no harm not contributing to the decimation of the planet and killing
28:23
of animals essentially we are doing better in that ethical front and obviously you know um as a nod to
28:30
what um to matt was saying there because he was absolutely right you know you can't save the world you
28:35
can't go and solve all of these huge problems that are out there and you know sometimes i look at it and i go you know what in the world
28:41
are we going to do you know that coldplay lyric look at what everybody's going through but there are certain things that as an individual
28:48
you can do and you know i think when it can start with something so small
28:53
as choosing milk made from oats as opposed to the udders of a cow whose child has been
28:59
ripped away from it and pretty much discarded as garbage then that is that's a small move
29:06
for us to make as human beings but actually butterfly effect we can all do our bit to make the planet
29:12
a little bit of a better place to be in and i think that's where i try and sing from and i'm
29:17
so glad we're having this conversation because it's such a great opportunity for us to hear each other's voice and
29:23
learn of each other's opinions and grow as human beings in that respect as well and that's the other thing we need to do
29:28
like have more conversations like this where they're not arguments and fights and vegans versus meat eaters but
29:34
you know a conversation that is steeped in science and research and so yeah i
29:40
digressed quite a lot there i think but i think i don't have it i think just quickly on the thing
29:46
the preachy thing is that is definitely a that is a that is a thing that people always say right vegans are kind of like you know they're
29:52
they rather like it this is not my opinion but people will say vegans aren't happy
29:58
being a vegan they want everyone else to be a vegan as well they're constantly kind of on on a on a mission to get everyone else to
30:03
become vegan right now in my experience like i know a number of vegans and i think i mean i wouldn't
30:09
say it's an overriding that's the case but i do think a lot of them are i guess you could say quite preachy but to be honest
30:16
when you analyze the the reasoning behind that i.e like not to like inhumanely killed
30:22
animals and i guess it's justified you know like if i if i if i preach you about not committing murder that isn't annoying
30:28
it's like probably should do that because it's bad like it says even though i guess again going back to
30:35
me to me because it's a convenient thing if someone says stop eating me it's with me i'll find that annoying because i'm doing it out of convenience but actually
30:40
if i analyze the you know the undertone the reasoning that is justified but yeah i guess it is
30:46
it's not nice being told you shouldn't yeah if you're doing something because it makes your life
30:51
in the short term better and someone says and someone says what you're doing is is bad that that's annoying isn't it
30:57
because you're like oh damn it i want to i want to carry on doing that you know nobody likes having uh their actions um
31:05
kind of highlighted to them it's and it's an uncomfortable place to be in and i think people are really living in this
31:11
state of cognitive dissonance where we don't want to associate this lifeless
31:17
pale or red you know looking thing on our plate that doesn't look a single thing like the animal
31:23
that is that it's um actually come from and we certainly don't want to think about the process
31:29
uh to which it came to be there or the process of its life before it came to be there
31:35
because it is it is really nasty and it's you know industrial farming is
31:40
it really is destroying the planet i mean there's um i think it's something insane like 90 of
31:47
the soy grown in the amazon rainforest is for agricultural feed not for
31:54
not for tofu or tempeh or alpro it's for the agricultural feed so i mean
32:00
that in its sense already just feeding animals soy and not letting them graze on things that they are supposed to eat is
32:05
first of all terrible for them and then it's a backlash terrible for us but also for the planet that's that's
32:11
really bad you think about you know the the worldwide hunger issues that we have
32:16
instead of using that to to feed agriculture and of course these animals you know they will then die they won't be they won't be bred and people say oh
32:22
yeah but those animals won't exist then it's like yeah but do you want an existence just to be killed for eating
32:27
or is it actually better for the animals to just breed as and when as they naturally would have done before humans completely
32:33
took over the world and you know use some of that soy to feed the hungry you know feed people in the world and
32:39
i get that there's there's a lot of logistical issues that come into that however it could be a start and considering we
32:45
only really get 36 of our calories on average from meat sources
32:50
it it seems to make sense that there's something going a skew here with the volume
32:56
of meat that people eat yeah i think some people i i it's funny because it's not always i
33:02
don't think it's always uh there is a great deal of ignorance surrounding like what happens in agricultural farming and
33:10
stuff like that as well but with a lot of that the tv and documentaries that are out now i think some people
33:15
just are a place where they've just accepted it as i like me so that's the chalice that
33:22
i'm going to take and i'll fight some other fight be it and i'll fight the fight of
33:29
i don't know of world hunger or i'll fight the fight of something else to cut iraq are they they the
33:37
do you know what i'm saying or some people are just like yeah or some people don't consider it um ethically wrong from that from that
33:44
perspective i feel like anyone that doesn't consider it ethically wrong hasn't doesn't really understand it i mean there's no way unless you're an absolute
33:50
sadist there's no way you can like actually understand what's happening and not think that's a bad thing yeah you have
33:56
to be like a psychopath for that to be the case i think yeah it's what what the
34:04
the only reason why i wouldn't a hundred percent say yeah because i just know that there's some listeners that we have that
34:09
wouldn't be wouldn't that may not be of that same disposition you see what i'm saying and and there are there are um
34:16
scientists on the other side obviously with the the regards to the treatment of animals that's a that's a
34:22
strong issue from that perspective but there are scientists on the other side that would speak about the benefits of indeed eating animals
34:29
but um yeah just just quickly on that there are so like there is a study that i think has a study recently right that looked at
34:36
it analyzed different vegan proteins um versus whey protein um
34:44
where where the actual protein content was even i think in some cases the vegan protein content was higher
34:50
um leucine levels were were also equal like the the amino acid levels were
34:56
equal and they did the study consisted of people taking so there wasn't like
35:02
two control groups it was like people took the vegan protein there was three different types i think it was like a p1 maybe a pumpkin one then like a mix
35:08
that had been hydrolyzed whatever three different types and then there was a whey protein and the people in the study would take
35:15
the whey protein then later they do the vegan protein they basically try all the all the four types right the the
35:21
vegan ones versus the non-vegan one and they found that the amino acid levels in their blood were
35:28
higher i think significantly 20 or 30 percent higher when they took the whey protein so the non-vegan protein source
35:34
and that was even when the vegan protein they were consuming the protein levels were actually higher than they were in
35:40
the whey protein so you're essentially what the study showed in that example well that people were consuming
35:46
vegan protein and more of it compared to the whey protein and yet the guys taking the whey protein
35:51
had increased levels of amino acids in their blood which is going to lead which is essentially better for building
35:57
muscle right so in that instance in that instance on a
36:03
physiological level the non-vegan protein was more effective in terms of building muscle
36:13
i think it might be just matt are you happy to just explain to people the importance of um leucine when it comes to muscle good
36:20
and just in case there's any about any other listeners who don't quite you're probably better at explaining the benefits of leucine basically leucine is
36:25
one one of the amino acids and it's good you need it to build muscle right but you're probably going to be able to hit them with more stats than i am
36:34
i'm going to i'm out i'm done that's it all right i'm gonna i'm gonna explain it but i'm gonna ask matt
36:45
if you're tired so leucine is um the amino acid and that will signal
36:52
muscle protein synthesis so that's why when you get your essential amino acids and essential when
36:58
it comes to the body so like essential vitamins essential minerals it basically means the body can't survive without it but it also i believe
37:05
it means it can't make them itself so something like taurine for example isn't essential it's essential for cats they have to get it
37:11
from an outside source but we make it in our bodies i believe um feel free to fact-check me on that i'm pretty sure this is right according to my research
37:17
but lucine um you normally get two parts leucine um in your uh to the ones valine
37:23
and uh isoleucine i think it is in bca's um because leucine is so important in
37:30
that so i think ensuring that your levels of that are high enough you can normally um synthesize the right
37:38
amount of protein out of whatever you're taking and the things i mean matt touched on this again earlier um you know he's
37:44
he's trying to build muscle he trains you know really hard and intensively i train really hard intensively the average
37:50
human being even if you're only having say one gym session a day for five days of the week the average human
37:56
being is probably having far too much protein than they need anyway there seems to be like a real obsession you know and
38:03
i'd say for a training a training athlete i don't know if i say athletic a training person matt would you agree with me that
38:09
normally like 1.6 to maximum 2 grams of protein per lean body mass
38:14
is is adequate oh yeah that's more than enough like you said for the average person yeah but then more than enough in in
38:21
terms of optimal for building muscle i would say for the average person i mean a lot of people are looking to lose weight now
38:27
right i think if you're in a calorie deficit keeping your protein high like above average high is really really important
38:33
and can have a drastic impact on the success of your diet so i do think for a lot of people
38:40
it's like a two-way thing so on the one hand yes your protein is overhyped you don't need that much protein to build muscle but at the same time
38:46
it is really really important uh particularly if you're so if you're basically if you're restricting your calories if you're trying to lose weight
38:52
if you're trying to lose fat it is is a fact that if you're trying to lose fat and you keep your protein
38:58
high so you've got two people right two people that are on identical that are both trying to lose fat they're both consuming the same number of
39:04
calories if person a uh eats you know a significant more protein than the significant
39:10
more amount higher or what it can't speak words a significant amount more protein than person b
39:15
they are going to retain more muscle mass they're going to retain more lean mass and they're probably going to find it
39:21
easier because if the satiety if you when you eat a high protein diet you're generally going to eat
39:26
more fiber as well so it's going to make you feel full it's going to give you the the illusion of having eaten more food
39:31
so it's going to make it easier to diet and like i said you're going to retain more muscle which a is good because everyone likes having muscle generally
39:38
and b is good because the more muscle you have the the more calories your body's going to burn
39:43
retaining that muscle it has to work to keep the muscle right so you're going to burn more calories just in the act of doing anything because you have more you have more lean
39:49
mass yeah i think people often take their protein consumption as well off their
39:55
total body weight not just their lean weight so there can be a big yeah of course as we know um all right let's
40:02
bring this um back around to performance from that perspective um is some people
40:10
would simply ask the simple question does can a vegan athlete compare or yeah can they
40:18
can they compete with a meat-eating athlete on that same level yes from that regard 100 i bet i say 100
40:25
yes but it's going to be harder that's what i would say yeah i definitely think and
40:30
again i think that just comes down to that how we're bought up as well if we're bought up in a predominantly
40:35
animal consuming environment and family then that's what we're going to be used to you know whereas if you're brought up
40:41
in a vegan family then instinct you know where it is and of course in society everything
40:46
is so fueled by um the meat industry and the um uh the money the money made behind
40:53
that you know these huge conglomerate companies and also things like pepsi and coke you
40:59
know and they're also they're not you know animal companies but um it's it comes down to money and advertising
41:05
and awareness so yeah i do think they can compete completely you do need to be on top of a little bit more
41:11
but purely because of that because it's not so readily thrown in your face i think okay
41:17
i think also let me check one more thing into the because i like it yeah yeah so in terms of the convenience
41:23
thing the convenience i think i say also is i think as a vegan so for example a vegan strong
41:28
man who's going to need an absolutely enormous amount of protein right compared to the average person the amount of fiber they're going to
41:34
have to consume as a result of eating that protein that there's a like that's not ideal you're devoting a lot of time to being
41:40
on the toilet you know and like it's not a very it's not it's not it's not a great like for social events it's
41:46
not ideal so that's another thing that can be overlooked like if you look at it in terms of yet i can get enough protein
41:52
you you definitely can but there's two things like i said firstly any touch on the amino acid profile so yeah you essentially you protein not all
42:00
protein is is the same right you could have you could get 20 grams of protein in in thingy option a and option b but your
42:07
body won't do the same with it because if it hasn't got a complete amino acid profile you can't use it properly right that's one thing so that you have to bear that mind but
42:12
also like i said the fiber generally not always but generally vegan sources of protein tend to be high
42:18
in fiber so beans and nuts and stuff and if you eat a lot of fiber there are repercussions you know so
42:25
whereas as a meat eater like i said i can just drink like some whey protein or eat a chicken
42:30
breast and it's going to have no impact on my bowels and whatever like i'm not going to feel bloated and horrible
42:37
as eating the vegan sauce i mean i've tried it i've done i've done short periods i'm talking like
42:42
you know days where i've eaten got protein from vegan sauces and i've definitely found
42:47
it has hit me hard in terms of like i'm literally in the bathroom for a lot of the day you know because of the fiber
42:52
now it may be that i would adapt to that and it would no longer be an issue after a while but definitely in the short term for me that
42:57
was not ideal i think um i think it's interesting you said that though about being a meat
43:03
eating diet but the first thing you referred to of course was um um having a a protein shake so i thought that was
43:10
quite interesting um and obviously you know if you're having a
43:15
um a shaker day you know i don't know how many shakes you have in 17 or
43:21
no i have like two two i have one in the morning and one evening my protein do 70 different
43:27
flavors you can use the code
43:32
oh my god well that's the thing i think most performance athletes or people who are trying to build will supplement with some form of a
43:38
shake as well regardless of whether they are a meat-eater or a vegan so i think
43:44
that you know that comes down to it as well and if you are vegan for um and you're not training you know
43:50
you're not gonna need as much but also if you have a fermented version of a protein as well that's going to be far more easily and readily
43:55
absorbed by your body because obviously a fermentation process is like a mini cooking process so if you're vegan and you're having say a
44:02
serving of tempeh or tofu every single day you are going to be well up there
44:07
with your um protein availability and if you've never had tempeh uh drop me a message or have a look at
44:13
my stories because i tell you i will show you how to cook it and it is delicious like satan i had the other day i had
44:19
some like had a seitan like essentially a fake chicken burger like it was absolutely outrageous
44:24
to the point where i literally went into the kitchen of the place because i didn't believe it i was like there's no way that's not chicken
44:29
like it was nuts it was actually nuts and i think i don't know what the amino acid profile is like of that of that it's like i think it's like
44:35
wheat is it like wheat wheat something like wheat um i think
44:40
seitan is from wheat flour or something right but yes seitan is made from um
44:46
wheat gluten but the protein content i don't know what the amino acid was like but the protein content is ridiculously high something i've seen
44:52
like 70 grams per 100 grams like it was ridiculous and it was like unbelievably good yeah but yeah like i
44:58
said i don't know i don't know what the amino acid profile of that is i don't know how transferable that protein content is um i believe seitan
45:06
is no it's not it's not a complete you'd have to have it with something else so it would come under the grain
45:11
um the grains sorry excuse me the grain spectrum um but um yeah i could have look into
45:16
that but seitan is um i actually talking about convenience um i've actually got several allergies so
45:22
i'm allergic to cashew nuts pistachio nuts uh milk which is obviously no issue um oranges i'm allergic
45:32
oranges or like are we talking about satsuma's tangerines zoomers tangerines clementines well
45:39
wow wow yeah do you have that preference got a list on the screen um since being told i'm alleged oranges
45:46
i've stayed away from the orange relatives so mandarins mandarin mandarin seem to
45:52
be okay on grapefruit i'm okay on grapefruit in other citruses uh but i'm also allergic to gluten wheat
45:59
and also yeast and um so when it comes to vegan alternatives
46:04
there's there's very few things i can actually i can actually have i'm very limited yeah that's hot that's tricky
46:13
what would it take for you to go vegan what would it take that's like a what
46:19
are we talking about we're talking a lot of money do you mean what are we i mean i'm open to offers i mean
46:25
it wouldn't take that much like i said it is really a convenience thing if i if i didn't you know wasn't doing what i
46:32
was doing if i had if i had so if i wasn't if i didn't train if i wasn't interested in being strong and
46:38
retaining muscle mass i would probably i'd be yeah i'd be on the fence i'll
46:44
probably be close to becoming a vegan i reckon um i would say if i had more time if i
46:50
if i had the time to set my diet up and figure out what i was gonna do again i'd be i probably would strongly consider i have
46:56
considered in the past to be honest um it wouldn't take that much to be honest wouldn't take that much i'm not
47:02
like i said i'm not like i'm not protesting you know against vegans i'm not like a
47:08
figurehead for like meat eating yeah yeah not at all like i don't yeah i i don't you know i'm not really yeah
47:15
i'm not fast either way i do like i said if you look at it objectively you probably should be a vegan if you look at it ethically you
47:21
definitely should be a vegan right but yeah basically i guess what i'm saying is i can live with myself as well doing
47:27
what i'm doing and i think that with that said it wouldn't yeah it wouldn't take that much that's the that
47:33
was a long that's a long answer but yeah basically it wouldn't take that much to go vegan i'm not really anti-vegan so yeah it wouldn't be ideal but if i had
47:39
to i could do it it's fine we'll check in on you in a year's time did that mean yeah
47:48
emily let me ask you a question what's the um what's the stupidest thing you've been asked as a vegan
48:00
probably um something along the lines of uh where do you get your protein from probably something like that i mean it
48:06
doesn't it doesn't sound like i was about to ask that um a silly question but i think you've got something yeah i think when you know
48:11
that it's really embarrassing that was actually sent in from matt yeah yeah i wanted the answer before we
48:19
started this [Laughter] um oh
48:26
um you know having something along the lines of oh isn't your hair and your hair and nails really weak and stuff like that it's like i mean uh that
48:33
kind of thing no you know there's so many vitamins and minerals and things like that
48:38
in um in vegetables and bits and bobs like that so yeah it's norm normally the where'd you
48:45
get your protein from or somebody would look at you go oh when somebody finds out you're vegan they literally look at you and they go
48:51
mmm yeah but what about bacon though it's always a bakery i get out my bingo
48:56
board and i stamp the bacon the hole again and i go right do you want to finish this off i
49:02
shout bingo because yeah it's a you get the same old stupid questions all the time i can
49:08
imagine uh back to you matt all right this is this is an interesting one do you reckon yeah you could keep up with emily in the
49:16
crossfit camp there is zero percent chance if you've seen me
49:21
perform any kind of cardiovascular activity even walking up the two flights of stairs in my house i'm gas
49:26
so my cardiovascular capacity is akin to that of a 95 year old lawn bowls player
49:32
so that would be a resounding no like i'm very competitive so i've done i've actually had a couple of videos with other crossfit athletes right
49:39
and i've like given it a go because i said i'm very competitive but my yeah my my aerobic capacity is
49:45
unbelievably poor so no definitely not definitely not no not even not even like no there's no
49:51
greyhound there absolutely no nowhere near it'll be embarrassing i'm sitting there like yeah you got nothing on me
49:58
i feel like the only so that i've done a couple of times i did one with obi winster who's a crossfit athlete right and he he was very kind to me he picked
50:05
stuff that was like because in terms of like numbers like my numbers for my compound lifts are good right so
50:11
if we're lifting it like you know percentages of our max and i feel like i do okay but anything that like i said involves any
50:17
basically any prolonged activity it's game over that's it i'm done i'm out you know
50:22
i think that that's the difference isn't it you might be able to do it for a few reps but when you're doing it absolutely you blow in you know with
50:28
your heart rate sat at like 160 plus it's another thing
50:33
yeah i am out i'm completely out of that one yeah emily uh last of you do you think
50:40
everyone would eventually be vegan and what do you think the future holds for food and nutrition with this
50:47
no i don't um sadly i don't think that will ever happen um which and it breaks my heart really
50:52
um i think as long as there are humans there will be suffering um ultimately um and that's you know
50:58
and we're end of the podcast yeah see you later guys most depressing depressing podcast
51:05
see you tomorrow yeah no no i don't think that that'll ever happen i do think that we are living in
51:12
far more open-minded times and that things are changing and there is there is a shift in people's mindset
51:20
um which is very exciting of course and i do think that um with increased awareness
51:26
and um a much more vast array of vegan options and products and um
51:34
and places to go and you know restaurants are really buying into this as well i think i think there will be a big shift and i think we will see a huge
51:41
conversion of um a lot of people over to a vegan way of living or a more vegan way of or there's there's a
51:48
big difference between vegan and plant-based i think vegan is very much a way of life and a belief system um that i think stems from uh not
51:56
thinking about oneself and do no harm whereas plant-based i think is far more thinking about oneself
52:01
in the element of um what they consume and more of an environmental level so i do
52:07
think there's going to be a bigger shift over to i mean which you know whichever route people want to take
52:13
to consuming less animal products i am down with were they going to call themselves plant-based or vegan i don't
52:19
care just it's good with me i'm happy you rock with both of them i hear you i see
52:24
you 100 and uh over to you matt what what was your biggest influence
52:30
right and what is one piece of advice you can give to um to our listeners my
52:36
biggest influence like i'd say i mean i've i've done like
52:41
like a few different things like i guess at different times that have different influences in terms of like i don't particularly i'm not big on like
52:47
idolizing people i've definitely had kind of i guess role models of people i've aspired to be like depending on what i'm doing yeah
52:53
um i don't really think this is a rubbish i don't really have anyone in particular that's been a big
52:59
influ a massive influence i would say it doesn't have to be somebody it could be something it could be a thing that's
53:04
influenced you from that perspective as well i think just like my weird dorky brain just like in the sense that
53:10
like i have like a a really deep rooted desire to like progress and see progress
53:16
and like monitor progress you know so like if i'm doing something and i don't see progression
53:21
or potential progression i'm not interested i lose motivation completely for it and i won't do it like i need to see something is improving and
53:28
growing and developing you know and then i get well behind it so in terms of that's always been like
53:33
for my whole like sporting like you know athletic whatever career like i've always
53:39
documented i've always monitored that and that's always been the driving forces wanting to get get better you know i'm always want
53:44
to like be the best or like just at the very least better what i'm doing you know improve numbers whatever
53:50
um and in terms of advice was that that was the second part right advice yeah a
53:55
bit of advice okay um first advice would be give shorter answers to questions than i do but the second part
54:01
would be like um i guess what i just said there just i guess i mean loads of things right but
54:06
just off the back of that to like track stuff like people don't it is amazing how many people like
54:11
i've worked in gyms and you get people that just go to the gym every day and literally rock up and just do what
54:17
they feel like doing or i could say you know i can say to them they're doing a bench press and i said what did you do last week and then they
54:23
couldn't even tell me right like you're if you if you don't track your training and your training volume and
54:29
and your what you're doing you can't you can't progress it over a long period of time unless you've got an absolute freakish
54:35
memory you can't progress what you're doing right so that might get you by as a beginner for a bit of time but long term
54:40
if you want to get bigger or lose fat or make progress in any aspect of fitness or your body your physique
54:47
you have to track what you're doing you know if you don't track it you can't be accountable you can't you can't increase it you can't use
54:53
essentially progressive overload and therefore you're not going to make progress so you're you're not wasting your time but you're you're not using your time anywhere near
55:00
as efficiently as you could so just literally you can use notes in your phone you know just write down what you did i did this lift for example
55:07
for this many reps with this much weight and then at some point you're going to try and beat that you're going to increase it in some way you know so on a
55:13
real basic term just just track what you're doing that you can apply it to diet you can apply it to loads of things
55:18
at the very least have a rough idea of what you're doing and don't document it or write it down so that you know you can then progress it
55:24
and it's fun to look back on it you know it's fun to look back i can look back on what i was doing like five years ago training wise and it's cool to see that you know to
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see the contrast and the progression incredibly so i love the passion of which you spoke about the guy
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is that when you is that when you're walking around the gym and you're seeing people without their phones track it right down yeah what are you
55:42
doing yeah i like following around write down their numbers what are you doing
55:58
rip it off the cctv i see uh over to you what's uh what's been your
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biggest influence or one piece of influence in your life and what one piece of advice you can give to our listeners oh that's such a hard one because i
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think i've got had so many influences um over my life um i mean
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do you mean people who have perhaps influenced me or movements or people movements a movie
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maybe anything that's like doesn't have to be me baby
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um okay so i think in regards to veganism um there's a film out there called earthlings which i found
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really um really influential and very moving it's a very difficult watch but i think
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it's important that everybody does watch it it's it's really tough to watch and any of the animal aid
56:50
oculus rift virtual reality things that you can do are very very educational and
56:57
eye-opening again very difficult watches but very important um in terms of people i was i feel very
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influenced by people like ricky gervais and jim carrey um my two favorite comedians of all time
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they're so outspoken about um things they believe in and they don't molly coddle they kind of just put
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it out there um and i find that very refreshing and very important as well and russell brand as well i find him
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quite influential um he's somebody who's shown a real transformation as a human being and i
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find that really important that you know he's allowed himself that growth to come back from a really dark place and kind of go
57:36
through this transformation of being a new person and um doing some real good and a bit of
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advice i'd always give to people is you know is try to do no harm and something i always say which is what
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my mindset coach actually always says is never make permanent decisions based on temporary emotions
57:55
so it's quite a yeah kind of insightful it's quite from here what did i say like writing stuff down
58:03
can we do that again i just had longer to think about it pen [Laughter]
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and also allow yourself personal growth you know never restrict yourself to who you used to be and allow yourself to change your mind
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based on new information and i think that's a real thing that because you know there are certain things when it comes to veganism and
58:26
vegan diet there are certain things that you're going to struggle to get but by acknowledging that you know from
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the evolutionary process that we've been through as human beings there's certain things we don't have access to as vegans but we can through
58:38
fortified supplements and things like that that we have to acknowledge that by the way of eating we don't access certain
58:44
things anymore so understanding and accepting that there are flaws and everything that we
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do but allowing yourself that personal growth and that change and that ability
58:55
to be not perfect but strive for the best excellence that you can achieve is
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you know is super important you know take take the pressure off allow yourself false it's through the faults and the failures
59:06
that we do grow and learn on that absolute bombshell there and that strong piece of advice there
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that about wraps up this week's episode of my proteins the scoop podcast a huge massive thank you to our
59:18
guests emily and matt you guys have given us some incredible insight a really engaging discussion um surrounding
59:25
veganism and i'm sure a lot of people are going to have a lot to say um so people please keep um the conversation going via
59:31
social media using the hashtag the scoop and get involved indeed in the comments to hit the subscribe
59:36
button if you're watching this on our youtube platform and um also hit the subscribe button on
59:41
uh on podcast as well um and drop us a nice little comment and don't worry we'll be back again soon
59:48
for another episode uh i've been david o'leary you've been watching the scoop thanks for listening
1:00:02
you
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