0:06
hi everyone I'm Kell ooro and this is
0:09
adaptable Behavior explained hi there
0:12
thank you so much for tuning in today
0:14
we're going to be talking about a pretty
0:16
painful topic if this applies to you and
0:20
uh we did another show on sexual abuse
0:22
and the gap of knowledge it's not a
0:24
two-part series but it might be one that
0:26
you want to look at prior to watching
0:28
this one although they can be alone
0:30
episodes but this episode is going to
0:32
focus mostly on the impact of sexual
0:35
abuse on survivors and we're going to
0:38
talk about some of the things that you
0:40
might see and the long-term effects and
0:43
the ways that we can address those I'm
0:45
especially thankful to have my guest
0:47
today Ellie Harris who is a an licensed
0:50
associate counselor here at infinite
0:51
healing and wellness and a friend in
0:53
colleague and so thank you so much for
0:55
being here um today uh tell tell us a
0:58
little bit about yourself yeah my name
1:01
is Ellie Harris and I am really
1:03
passionate about this topic I think I've
1:06
worked with a lot of clients that have
1:08
been personally impacted by this topic
1:10
and have loved seeing the hard work that
1:14
they've put in to repair this trauma
1:17
that they've experienced so I love this
1:20
topic I love sharing more about this
1:22
topic and hopefully um it encourages
1:24
other people to seek healing I I really
1:27
appreciate you being here it's not uh
1:30
it's not a fun topic there might be uh
1:32
triggers that come up for you so please
1:34
make sure you take care of yourself if
1:36
that happens uh but it is really
1:38
important that the impact of what
1:40
happens to people isn't minimized and
1:43
that it's normalized and validated and
1:45
so if if you know you are someone that
1:48
you know is struggling with some of the
1:49
things that we talk about today please
1:51
please you know know that they're not
1:53
alone and that or that you're not alone
1:55
and that there is definitely help and
1:57
we'll have some options in the uh
1:59
descript descrition below so please
2:01
check that out so let's why don't you
2:03
kick us off and let's talk about the
2:05
emotional and psychological effects that
2:07
happen to many uh survivors of sexual
2:10
abuse yeah I think there are a lot of
2:14
different impacts that that sexual abuse
2:17
can have on someone's emotional and
2:19
psychological wellbeing but one client
2:23
that I've had uh they were abused from
2:26
about 6 to 12 years old by their uncle
2:29
and and after a few years they had tried
2:33
you know sharing with their parent that
2:35
they were having this experience and the
2:37
parent was was so shut down and and
2:40
didn't really know what to do but
2:41
thankfully they did report it and
2:44
unfortunately there wasn't enough
2:46
physical evidence for the court to do
2:49
anything and so this so tragic so this
2:52
this client had this experience and uh
2:54
thankfully well not thankfully but a few
2:57
years later there were other people
3:00
coming forward um that they were
3:02
experiencing something similar from this
3:05
Uncle so hopefully Justice eventually
3:07
was served in in in this person's behalf
3:10
yes but from you know trying to advocate
3:14
for themselves and and speak up and and
3:17
then having this experience where they
3:19
weren't protected by the court system
3:21
they they really learned to shut down
3:23
and they don't have a lot of trust in
3:26
you know other people in being protected
3:29
by our just system and so um a lot of
3:32
lack of trust there they have frequent
3:35
nightmares whether it's about those
3:38
experiences or just a lack of safety
3:41
they powerlessness in general absolutely
3:43
dreams that are thematically similar are
3:45
often what I see in in sexual abuse
3:47
survivors where it's not necessarily
3:50
flashbacks of the scenes themselves but
3:53
representative images that often times
3:56
are part of their dream repertoire but
3:59
but but thematically symbolic of the
4:02
powerlessness or the safety violations
4:04
or the inability to speak up or be heard
4:06
and those show up over and over in their
4:09
their dream experiences yeah and then
4:12
there they have all of that anxiety with
4:15
them throughout the day throughout their
4:17
week that their window of Tolerance is
4:19
just so narrow so something that may not
4:22
seem very stressful to the standard
4:25
person may send them completely out of
4:27
their window and make them feel really
4:29
overwhelm and just to just for our
4:31
audience who may not know what that term
4:33
means we we all have kind of an optimal
4:36
window of arousal and when we've had
4:38
something bad happen to us we can either
4:40
end up in this hyperaroused space or in
4:42
the hypo aroused space that can look
4:44
like anxiety fight vigilance or shut
4:47
down depressed can't say no passive and
4:49
so when you look at that window of
4:51
Tolerance this is I can think and feel
4:53
and react reasonably and use my
4:55
prefrontal cortex to make decisions and
4:57
so if I've had something bad happen to
4:59
me I might find myself out of that
5:01
window and responding in one of those
5:03
other ways or reacting rather that don't
5:06
really serve me for the given
5:07
circumstance so for those people who
5:09
don't really know what that means and I
5:11
think I think sexual abuse always
5:13
compromises that window absolutely and
5:16
they can go to the more hyper roused
5:18
where they feel more anxious more
5:21
stressed or they could go to the hypo
5:23
roused where they feel just numb and and
5:25
shut off from their experience and that
5:28
shows up in future relationship ships
5:30
and often times as children you know
5:32
that's not addressed because it's not
5:34
something that's front of mind but when
5:36
they move into Intimate Relationships as
5:38
they age it shows up you know with touch
5:41
with intimacy with safety with
5:43
perception of safety because if
5:45
something looks tastes smells and feels
5:47
like therefore must be the same and so
5:50
my you know my experience of safety with
5:53
my partner always feels compromised even
5:56
though my head knows they're safe and
5:57
they haven't earned my distrust my body
6:00
reacts as if something dangerous could
6:02
happen and so there's that that constant
6:05
internal conflict and I I think that
6:07
I've seen that over and over and over
6:09
over the years of working with people
6:10
where their spouse kicks up their
6:12
unresolved trauma related to intimacy
6:15
absolutely their partner and you know
6:17
sometimes there there really is a lack
6:22
of safety that they may have in their
6:24
relationship and and I've also seen a
6:27
lot of times where um maybe partner is
6:30
trying as best as they can to provide a
6:32
safe space for sexual intimacy but
6:36
there's that still past present
6:38
confusion where they feel like they're
6:40
not safe they feel like they're going to
6:41
be taken advantage of right and that
6:43
that co-creates a problem with the
6:45
partner too because they don't they
6:47
haven't earned this reaction absolutely
6:49
you know they are showing up honoring
6:51
and loving and safe and patient but
6:53
their partner can't treat them as if
6:55
that's what's happening and so then that
6:56
creates problems of intimacy and
6:58
connection and safety and so I think
7:00
that one of the things that's really
7:01
important is if this is is part of your
7:04
story it's really important that you do
7:06
your work on it because you're you know
7:08
if you if you don't we end up you know
7:11
bleeding on people who didn't cut us for
7:13
for a metaphor that oftentimes I I think
7:15
is fair is you know it's not that past
7:18
present emotional confusion will in fact
7:20
show up in our relationships and it's
7:23
it's not really our fault or their fault
7:25
but unfortunately we do have to address
7:27
it and do some trauma therapy to help
7:29
get resolution in our in our bodies so
7:32
that we can show up in the present with
7:34
a a a level of safety and in the absence
7:36
of hypervigilence yeah well and I've
7:38
even seen the opposite in some cases
7:41
where you know the person who is
7:43
sexually abused becomes more
7:45
hypersexualized and they they maybe have
7:49
a higher like promiscuity yeah M and you
7:53
know if they they meet have a partner
7:56
that maybe has a lower sex drive than
7:57
they do then that can cause a lot of a
7:59
lot of her intention yeah and I think
8:02
another thing that people really
8:04
minimize and undervalue and and even
8:06
doctors don't necessarily bring this up
8:08
but there are often times physical
8:11
issues and physical ailments that are
8:13
associated with the memory of traumatic
8:16
experiences so I'll give you a couple of
8:18
examples because I have seen this more
8:20
often than not so in a in a more mild
8:24
area let's say you know my partner is
8:26
aggressive or um controlling or
8:29
sometimes even mean and you think about
8:32
the resentment that builds if we can't
8:34
speak up or get them to stop or get them
8:36
to see what they're doing and then you
8:38
end up with interestingly and I've seen
8:40
this in case after case where I've seen
8:42
you know chronic UTI or chronic yeast
8:45
infections or things like that and if
8:47
you think about the body you know
8:49
there's there's if if I can't speak up
8:51
and get you to treat me better my body
8:53
is like you're going to stay away and it
8:55
will create a reason that you don't have
8:57
to say no you know no I don't want you
9:00
that close to me I don't feel safe loved
9:01
honored by you and so I don't feel like
9:04
being intimate but if I have internal
9:05
confusion about you know but I'm
9:07
supposed to have sex with my husband and
9:09
we've had really good days but I don't
9:11
I'm I'm still not over the thing that
9:12
happened however many days ago then my
9:15
body will create a reason for me to not
9:17
have to be close and um Time After Time
9:20
with EMDR reprocessing I have seen you
9:23
know cases where they see the resentment
9:25
they see the history of the fighting or
9:27
the history of the pain in their
9:29
experience and when we clear those
9:32
emotional you know uh unresolved
9:35
memories and you clear that they stop
9:37
getting the yeast infections they stop
9:39
getting the UTI and so in cases like
9:42
sexual abuse we've seen things like
9:44
labia cancer ovarian cancer um you know
9:47
chronic like I said before yeast
9:49
infections UTI um where there's a
9:53
physical danger response like the immune
9:56
system says stay away it's bad I don't
9:59
want to anything to do with it sometimes
10:01
breast cancer you know all of these uh
10:03
ailments um can be not always but can be
10:08
attributed to a a a sexual abuse
10:11
experience and the body is just acting
10:13
out against in protection of or on
10:15
behalf of the person it's so fascinating
10:18
um have you seen other examples where
10:20
the physicality shows up as a response
10:22
and a correlation to history of of abuse
10:27
yeah absolutely I think our body have
10:29
learned you know thankfully such a
10:32
intense way to protect ourselves but it
10:35
can be really really hard and I I
10:37
actually have a family member who was
10:40
was sexually abused by their father for
10:43
years during their childhood and later
10:45
on ended up having uterine cancer wow
10:49
and although I don't I don't know what
10:51
the body was trying to do in response to
10:53
that but I know that they their their
10:56
reproductive system was severely
10:59
traumatized and was for a while right it
11:02
just makes sense it just makes sense
11:04
same goes with like inability to get
11:06
pregnant often times I'll see a
11:07
correlation where the the past is
11:10
somewhat haunting and so when we clear
11:12
that memory it's like the cellular
11:14
restoration of the physicality becomes
11:17
calm and doesn't have to be fighting and
11:19
so it can settle down and and i' I've
11:21
had a few clients end up getting
11:22
pregnant after we do work that you know
11:24
had to do with the injustices of things
11:27
that had happened to them from the
11:29
female intimacy perspective and then
11:32
their body was ready to receive and and
11:34
and get pregnant so I mean obviously
11:36
there's not a direct correlation but
11:38
there is so much evidence and research
11:40
and and a great book to read the body
11:42
keeps the score um that besser Vander
11:45
cul did that really helps to highlight
11:47
and illustrate that as well of as well
11:49
as a million other podcasts by Gabor
11:52
mate and and other you know renowned
11:54
people in our profession that have done
11:56
great work to share this kind of
11:58
information so I think that that piece
12:00
is often times uh the body will speak up
12:03
if we don't it really will so we talked
12:07
a little bit about uh the impact of this
12:10
experience on relationships but we're
12:11
going to dig in a little bit more deeply
12:13
so so tell us from your experience and
12:16
perspective how you've seen this this
12:18
impact um a relationship in in the in
12:21
the now like it is a common occurrence
12:25
where someone who experienced sexual
12:27
abuse when they were a child
12:30
um has trouble trusting their partner in
12:33
a marriage or in a serious dating
12:35
relationship and I've I've seen this in
12:37
a lot of my clients where you know their
12:40
partner may or may not be providing that
12:42
safe environment but either way they
12:45
have these these foggy goggles on that
12:48
they can't trust either way um but I've
12:51
not only seen the impact on their
12:54
romantic relationships but also with
12:57
with children or other people that were
13:00
in a caregiving position for them so for
13:03
those clients that they did speak up and
13:06
they told their parents but their
13:07
parents didn't believe them or their
13:09
parents didn't know what to do because
13:11
they didn't know any better uh they have
13:13
a lot of hurt and resentment towards
13:16
that parent and may avoid you know a
13:19
deep intimate relationship with that
13:22
parent and sometimes might have to end
13:24
up caregiving for their parent in their
13:26
older age and they just have so much res
13:29
in built up it's so complex absolutely
13:32
it really is you know I've even seen it
13:33
manifest in in parenting where uh you
13:36
know a parent is reluctant or reticent
13:38
to even change diapers or to bathe their
13:41
babies or their children because they
13:43
were inappropriately touched in their
13:45
childhood and they just don't want to do
13:46
the wrong thing and so they have this
13:48
innate in in inability to trust
13:50
themselves of like what's okay and not
13:52
okay touch and so we've had to work
13:54
through those things and you know really
13:56
normalize you you have to wipe very good
13:59
for a baby and you know you have to get
14:01
in there and clean it really well cuz
14:03
they can't and I and and you're not
14:04
doing anything wrong in fact it's more
14:06
neglectful to leave it you know and
14:08
those kinds of things can be so
14:10
confusing for someone who didn't didn't
14:13
you know who was mistre who were
14:14
mistreated and I think those are the
14:16
kinds of things that are often not
14:17
discussed about relationship or um and
14:20
how or even an overprotection you know
14:23
you can never go anywhere with anyone if
14:26
I'm not there because the bad thing
14:28
happen to me and I'm going to now
14:30
project onto you every experience with
14:33
everyone that I don't know and although
14:35
the experiences of having been
14:37
mistreated are common and frequent or
14:40
prevalent the likelihood that it's
14:43
happening with everybody in every
14:45
circumstance is just not so and so
14:48
educating oneself and really doing due
14:51
diligence when it comes to spending time
14:53
with people and talking to the the
14:55
providers that your children are going
14:56
to be with the parents and and the
14:58
caregivers and things like that and
14:59
really just having good clear boundaries
15:01
and communication I think is important
15:03
but not so much a projection of what the
15:06
fear is now putting on to other people
15:08
especially as it relates to Parenting
15:10
it's so important and working through
15:13
you know those those foggy goggles that
15:14
may come from their own trauma so that
15:17
they can accurately perceive if a
15:20
caregiver or babysitter or um you know
15:24
family member that's caring for their
15:25
child really is a threat or not right
15:27
yeah we talk about just for those who
15:29
aren't familiar with that the foggy
15:31
goggles uh metaphor uh when we have
15:34
trauma and we've had things happen it
15:36
sort of clouds our perspective or our
15:38
visibility because we're looking just
15:39
through that lens and so we can't see as
15:42
clearly because we're tainted by the
15:45
history of our experience and and so
15:47
we're we've got to help clean lenses as
15:49
a therapist so that you have clearer
15:51
perspective and can and can um delineate
15:53
past present confusion and understand
15:56
you know although this happened to me it
15:57
doesn't mean it's happening now to
15:59
everybody around me and that we're not
16:01
projecting uh I I think another thing we
16:03
have to talk about is the impact uh
16:06
potential impact on economic situations
16:08
and the ability to provide for oneself
16:11
when I've been so so pervasively
16:13
traumatized and if you think about our
16:16
um ability to learn if we are in unsafe
16:21
uh in in in a lack of safety in our
16:22
homes I'm not going to school and really
16:25
caring about math and English and
16:27
getting my homework in my mere survival
16:29
has been um about trying to be safe
16:32
trying to avoid being in danger in the
16:33
future and so I'm not learning and so
16:36
when you see the collateral damage that
16:38
happens to someone who's going through
16:40
for physical or sexual abuse as a child
16:43
you know we would be remiss not to
16:45
mention the fact that likely it's
16:47
affecting the ability to learn in
16:48
education and those educational outcomes
16:51
being different affect our ability to
16:54
provide for ourselves to hold jobs to
16:57
make a decent enough living to through
16:59
school because our our anxiety and our
17:01
depression and our trauma symptoms very
17:03
much can affect our ability to learn and
17:06
so I think that's an important piece of
17:08
this puzzle that oftentimes is minimized
17:11
for um for those who have had these
17:14
kinds of experiences what are things
17:16
that we could do to address that do you
17:18
have any thoughts on that yeah I think a
17:21
lot of times what I see in clients is so
17:23
much of it as a capacity issue you know
17:26
the the trauma they've experienced takes
17:29
up so much of their capacity and so they
17:32
just don't always have a whole lot for
17:34
all of these relationships and work and
17:37
these different stressors in their lives
17:39
so I think it's really important to look
17:41
at where can I take care of myself where
17:44
can I you know find avenues for healing
17:48
and and getting more capacity right and
17:51
I mean I think that's the the piece that
17:53
we really need to make sure people
17:55
understand is if there is healing and
17:57
although it is not fair that that that
17:59
one has to take on that responsibility
18:01
whether they are a child or they are an
18:03
adult uh there is there is a way to heal
18:06
from this it's not an easy path it's not
18:09
a linear path but it definitely is a
18:11
possible path and so when we think about
18:13
that um to to help alleviate the shame
18:17
that is so often part of the uh sexual
18:20
abuse experience um you know the I'm bad
18:23
it's my fault I should have done
18:24
something else I shouldn't have done
18:25
something else all of those things that
18:27
are associated often times with shame
18:29
and shame about my worth and my body in
18:32
general like there's usually so much
18:34
complexity related to those things and
18:37
so healing really is possible but like I
18:40
said it's it's a hard path and um and so
18:44
we want we want people to do bottomup
18:46
therapies you want to talk a little bit
18:48
about how you know the therapies that we
18:50
do with EMDR how that can help
18:52
absolutely you know I think a lot of
18:55
times with trauma in general but
18:57
especially sexual abuse is your body is
18:59
still living in those past experiences
19:02
often not when we are triggered when we
19:04
go throughout our daily lives and so
19:07
working through your sexual abuse with a
19:10
bottomup therapy and an EMDR therapy can
19:13
help your body realize that you're no
19:16
longer in those you know past
19:18
experiences that yes you went through
19:21
that but now in these current
19:23
circumstances you are safe you are you
19:26
have options you aren't defective and
19:30
I've I've had so many clients that they
19:32
feel that shame that you talked about
19:35
and they realize that it's not part of
19:37
their identity anymore that they can be
19:39
you know their own person and free from
19:42
this thing that happened to them it
19:43
doesn't have to be who I am it can be
19:45
just something that happened to me and
19:47
it can be over it can get filed as if
19:49
it's no longer happening yeah or a lot
19:52
of clients hold on to or believe that
19:55
they're at fault for what happened they
19:57
blame themselves that that self blame is
19:59
so common yes especially if again they
20:03
think that they could have changed
20:04
something or worn something different um
20:07
or you know I have some clients that
20:09
they didn't say anything or they tried
20:11
to and it didn't work so other children
20:14
or people were abused by that
20:16
perpetrator and they feel so much blame
20:19
that that they didn't stop it right or
20:22
even seeing someone else be abused and
20:24
not speaking up i' I've had that happen
20:26
too where you know I was in the room and
20:29
was being abused and I didn't say
20:30
anything I just laid there Frozen What
20:32
kind of person does that you know
20:33
there's a lot of vicarious Trauma from
20:36
witnessing or experiencing something
20:38
like that and so often times that's part
20:41
of the work that we have to do to help
20:42
someone heal yeah understanding why we
20:46
freeze or why we shut down or why we
20:48
submit and then helping our body find a
20:51
different way right uh for those who are
20:55
interested in learning more about EMDR
20:57
therapy I've got two episodes earlier in
20:59
this season about what is the MDR
21:01
therapy and a couple of other episodes
21:04
on how we work and the way the body
21:06
responds to trauma so those might be
21:07
good ones to watch to have a a greater
21:10
explanation about all of the the
21:12
concepts that we're discussing today um
21:14
but Ellie I really appreciate you being
21:16
here um for this incredibly important
21:19
but very hard conversation and for those
21:21
of you who uh this has been an
21:24
Affliction of yours and you've dealt
21:25
with this please know that there is help
21:28
um and please go get some help and and
21:31
don't be alone with this because there
21:32
is healing and there you just don't have
21:35
to live with this for the rest of your
21:36
life and although the path is not easy
21:39
like I said um there there is a path to
21:41
healing and so hopefully you've learned
21:44
something that can help you and I I wish
21:46
you the best in that healing Journey
21:49
there are some resources in the
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descriptions below if you are looking
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for some additional help so thank you so
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much for being here today um and until
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we meet again then don't forget to lead
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with love it'll never steer you wrong