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Welcome to Adaptable | Behavior Explained! Your sexuality, identity, and pronouns are yours to define. They’re the core of who you are. Choosing pronouns that fit you is about being seen as your true self. It’s direct: You are who you say you are, and that’s enough. No one else’s timeline or expectations matter. It’s your story, your script, your stage. Stand tall in your identity, and know that being you is enough.
I'm Kelly O'Horo, Attachment based EMDR Therapist, EMDRIA Consultant, and Advanced Trainer. I'm a mom of 5, Nonna of 5, wife, and a healer. I have the honor of spending my workdays walking along side people while they brave their healing journeys. I try to live with the generous assumption that we're all doing the best we can with what we know. Therapists are teachers for the "life stuff" and "emotional vocabulary" that may not have been learned due to gaps in our care givers capabilities. In the last 15 years I've learned that people are freaking amazing, resilient, and inspiring. Most importantly, we are hardwired for connection and for healing!
I hope to bring an authentic, compassionate, and unpolished approach while we explore a variety of topics such as parenting, marriage, relationships, dating, trauma, attachment, adoption, depression, addiction, anxiety, and love! There's a why for all behaviors and an explanation that makes perfect sense as emotion is at the root of it all.
-- Links --
https://linktr.ee/kellyohorolpc
https://youtu.be/rLnARKekvgo
https://www.emdria.org/find-an-emdr-therapist/
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0:07
hi everyone I'm Kelly ooro and this is
0:10
adaptable Behavior explained hello
0:13
everybody and welcome to the adaptable
0:14
show I'm so glad to have you here I'm
0:17
especially glad to have Carlin Parker my
0:19
friend and colleague of many years
0:21
joining us today as we discuss uh a
0:24
topic that's oftentimes confusing
0:26
there's a lot of misconceptions and lack
0:28
of understanding in this area
0:30
uh lgbtq population and so today we're
0:34
going to do our best to clear some
0:35
things up while recognizing there's a
0:38
likelihood we're going to get some
0:39
things wrong and we hope to ask for your
0:41
grace and realize we're not trying to uh
0:44
marginalize or dismiss anything that we
0:46
might get wrong but we did our best to
0:48
prepare in hopes that we do this topic
0:50
Justice uh we are both Mental Health
0:53
Counselors uh we both take culture
0:55
courses I just took one as recently as
0:57
this past uh year at the mrea conference
1:00
so we do try our best to stay a breast
1:02
of information and um attend workshops
1:05
and conferences that are presented by
1:08
people that are more identifying in
1:10
these ways and so again please give us
1:12
Grace we're going to do our best uh so
1:14
let's kick it off Carlin thanks for
1:16
being here I so appreciate your time and
1:19
energy to focus on this topic today in
1:21
the month of June pride month and um so
1:24
tell me a little bit about yourself uh
1:26
professionally and personally so I've
1:28
been in practice with infinite since
1:30
2021 I serve the lifespan which includes
1:34
individuals in the lgbtq plus community
1:38
and I also have been active in
1:42
participating and um even since my high
1:46
school undergraduate days have been
1:49
involved in community outreach programs
1:52
and advocacy yeah so allyship has been
1:54
part of your your work in advocacy as
1:57
well yeah getting uh um people
2:02
recognized as um co-conspirators
2:06
basically in in um in our work okay
2:11
awesome so the first thing we're going
2:13
to start with is claring uh clarifying
2:15
some confusion around two I would say
2:18
main umbrella categories that are often
2:20
times misunderstood and that's the
2:23
difference between gender identity and
2:25
sexuality so we're going to kick it off
2:27
by clearing up some terms related to se
2:29
sexuality which is our uh it's our
2:32
attraction our sexual orientation our
2:34
romantic interest so why don't you kick
2:37
us off with the first uh term in that
2:39
sexuality umbrella uh that we want to
2:41
talk about yeah so the first term would
2:45
be heterosexuality and this is seen as
2:48
the default in a lot of ways right
2:51
attraction to the opposite sex so if I'm
2:55
a woman I'm attracted to a man if I'm a
2:58
man I'm attracted Ed to a woman awesome
3:02
thank you and this is this is often
3:04
times in family systems what's just
3:06
expected and so for example if I have a
3:09
child who decides to come out as a a
3:12
different um preference for sexuality
3:14
this can be really hard on families who
3:17
have to shift gears on what they had
3:19
just uh had a bias toward or expected or
3:21
accept uh their expectation around what
3:24
their family system might look like so I
3:26
think that's an important thing to just
3:28
start with the next uh topic of
3:30
sexuality would be bisexuality and so
3:33
these are people that are attracted
3:35
romantically and or sexual sexually to
3:38
people uh of more than one gender not
3:40
necessarily at the same time not
3:42
necessarily in the same way and not
3:44
necessarily to the same degree so I may
3:47
be interested in women as a female uh
3:50
but I may also be interested in men and
3:52
maybe uh sexually and romantically and
3:55
so the degree to which I pursue those
3:57
relationships can also vary based on my
4:01
propensity and my desire so that would
4:02
be an example of bisexuality so what's
4:06
next so the next category would be
4:09
homosexuality which would be attraction
4:12
to the same sex and that includes gay
4:18
lesbian um so a person who's emotionally
4:22
romantically sexually attracted to
4:24
members of the same gender right and
4:28
then we have a term that's interesting
4:31
and and not as often heard I would say
4:33
is asexuality and asexuality is
4:35
basically a a self uh proclaimed lack of
4:39
sexual attraction in general toward any
4:42
any sex and so uh this is another area
4:45
that some people identify so it's often
4:48
called Ace for short and that refers to
4:51
some kind of partial lack of sexual
4:53
attraction so it could exist on a
4:56
spectrum and asexual people may
4:59
experience expence no little or like
5:02
conditional sexual attraction okay when
5:05
you say conditional what what might that
5:07
look like so it might be that it's
5:11
within certain categories like I have
5:14
romantic attraction to somebody but I
5:16
have a lack of desire for sexual
5:19
activity so physiologically there's a
5:21
there's a gap yeah okay uh next next we
5:26
have
5:27
pansexuality so this is a action
5:30
regardless of gender this is I am um
5:34
when when talking with a pansexual
5:36
person one time and of course this is in
5:38
a Global Knowledge pain you know it's
5:40
like asking a white person what do you
5:41
think about this and and procla
5:44
proclaiming that that's the way it is
5:45
for all people that are white and of
5:47
course that's very uh limiting in in
5:49
understanding but uh one of my
5:51
experiences was they stated I am
5:54
attracted to men to women to non-binary
5:58
people to transgender people it's really
6:00
more about the person I love the person
6:03
whoever they are no matter what they
6:05
look like based on just my emotional
6:07
connection so for me that that's what
6:10
I've understood pansexual uh sexuality
6:13
to be do you have a different
6:14
understanding of that um it's sometimes
6:16
used interchangeably with bisexuality
6:19
and so that's some more of my
6:22
understanding of it too that it's very
6:25
slight in those degrees that bisexuality
6:28
can include part of that so not
6:31
necessarily
6:32
simultaneously or to one degree or
6:35
another but that there's attraction to
6:39
more than one or inclusive of all
6:42
genders okay so my understanding with by
6:46
is is
6:47
to and so this is a this is another area
6:50
where you know even in our conversation
6:53
you and I are coming up with a bit of a
6:54
different understanding and I think
6:55
that's really what we are trying to
6:57
highlight in general with wanting to do
6:59
this show is even among mental health
7:01
professionals who have you know ample
7:03
Advanced trainings in culture topics
7:05
specifically related to this and and
7:07
going well I didn't think that bisexual
7:10
meant that I would also potentially be
7:12
sexually attracted to someone who is
7:14
transgender uh because I understood it
7:16
as by and that would be a third category
7:18
of how one identifies so again I think
7:21
the best course of action is to ask when
7:24
in doubt ask right and it's really how
7:28
the person defines it for themselves
7:31
right right because it could be by as my
7:35
own plus other genders as how I
7:38
understand it or it could be inclusive
7:40
of everybody because that's an older
7:44
term but I still identified as that when
7:47
I first came out and pansexual wasn't a
7:49
term yet and you know it's it's
7:53
constantly evolving and it's a moving
7:55
Target and so we just have to ask the
7:57
person what does that mean for you
8:00
yeah I I think that's a really that's
8:02
that's probably the takeaway I want
8:04
everyone to to glean from this show in
8:06
general is we're going to do our best
8:08
we're going to be as honoring as we can
8:10
and we're still going to be confused and
8:12
get things wrong especially as it
8:13
relates to someone's personal uh
8:16
understanding Andor identif
8:18
identification of self and how they view
8:20
the world through their lens and so
8:22
right we just want to be open and
8:24
consider what it might be like for them
8:25
when you don't know what it's like to
8:27
walk in someone else's shoes and I think
8:28
that that's the key the key takeaway so
8:31
thank you I appreciate that so uh the
8:34
next thing I want to talk about is
8:35
Identity or gender this has been an
8:37
incredibly hot topic lately especially
8:40
as it relates to um you know bathroom
8:43
choices and things like that it's been
8:45
an incredibly hot political topic
8:47
several states have uh elicited uh
8:50
bathroom rules and laws that are now
8:53
allowing and not allowing certain things
8:55
to take place based on a born gender and
8:58
so I think this this is an important
9:00
topic to just discuss so that there's
9:01
more information out there and people
9:03
can have a little bit more awareness and
9:06
insight about what it might be like so
9:08
uh so the definition of gender right as
9:11
it stands is a socially constructed
9:15
understanding of how one identifies it
9:17
represents the person's innermost
9:20
concept of themselves as a man as a
9:23
woman as a non-binary person which which
9:25
we'll get to the the depth of that and
9:28
so it's a person personal inherent sense
9:30
of being specific to their gender and
9:33
this might be a man woman non-binary
9:37
gender queer and all these terms we're
9:39
going to dig into a little bit more
9:41
deeply so why don't you uh narrow it
9:44
down a little bit more to some of these
9:46
terms as it relates to gender sure so
9:52
gender again is a social construct we
9:55
have ideas of what it means to be a man
9:59
what it means to be a woman in our
10:02
society and there are lots of layers to
10:04
that right and how I choose to express
10:08
my gender or my gender expression is how
10:11
I live out my identity in my everyday
10:13
life what kind of clothes I put on what
10:16
kind of behaviors I engage in how I show
10:20
up as my identified gender and sometimes
10:24
when there's gaps in that or when
10:27
there's confusion around that it can be
10:29
really difficult for a person because
10:32
gender as you're given in our society is
10:37
sometimes
10:39
limitting right and so let's let's dig
10:41
into that a little bit the things that
10:43
people understand as gender and then
10:45
let's hopefully expand that topic a
10:48
little bit more so we of course have a
10:51
man this is a person who is born with
10:53
male genitalia they are identified at
10:56
Birth in this way this is the the way
10:58
that they bu biologically you know came
11:00
into the world with with male organs
11:03
that are visible and they would then be
11:06
named as male am I getting that
11:09
right so that would be somebody who
11:12
identifies as
11:13
cisgender okay they're gender gender
11:16
identity matches the sex male or female
11:19
that they were
11:21
given and that was put on their birth
11:23
certificate and that they were born that
11:26
they were the way that they came out and
11:27
they were born with a
11:29
identifying uh
11:32
genitalia yeah okay and so then we have
11:35
female right woman who is born as a
11:37
female and uh they have female genitalia
11:41
there is not any cross-section of other
11:44
genitalia when born on their birth C
11:46
certificate female is what's identified
11:49
and a person identifies as female who
11:52
was born that way as they move through
11:55
uh their lives and they would identify
11:57
as female correct am I getting that
11:59
right
12:00
right okay great I think that it's
12:02
important that we talk about certain
12:04
aspects of biology that although not
12:06
incredibly common do
12:09
exist and so what happens when someone
12:11
is born with both genders what is that
12:14
called so it's called in Sex and in sex
12:18
people are born with a variety of
12:21
differences in their sex traits their
12:23
Anatomy reproductive Anatomy so there's
12:26
a wide variety of difference among
12:29
the variations including differences in
12:32
genitalia chromosomes gonads internal
12:36
sex organs hormone production all kinds
12:39
of things so there's there's secondary
12:42
sex traits that can be involved in that
12:44
hormone response it includes a lot of
12:47
that and there's a wide variety and so
12:49
that whole spectrum is called inner sex
12:52
okay thank you so much for clearing that
12:54
up and I think a lot of people really uh
12:57
don't understand that because it's not
12:59
spoken about very often and and so what
13:02
that might look like is although my
13:04
outsides look like male my insides
13:07
hormonally produce like female and so
13:10
how confusing for a person to feel a
13:12
certain way that doesn't match how they
13:14
look and I think that's what ends up
13:16
happening a lot of times based on how uh
13:19
there's a difference in identity with
13:22
how one looks versus how one feels and
13:24
shows up and identifies in the world
13:26
right it could include somebody who who
13:30
has a penis and has inside they have
13:35
ovaries and so how that shows up in
13:38
their day-to-day life is maybe they were
13:40
assigned okay well you look like a boy
13:43
on the outside so you're a boy but they
13:45
don't feel like that right especially if
13:48
they go through puberty and Adolescence
13:50
that can be really confusing yeah yeah I
13:53
can't imagine it sounds so incredibly
13:55
painful so let's talk some more of terms
13:58
that are oftentimes used in this
14:01
community uh what is a
14:04
gender so a gender would be I don't
14:09
identify with any particular gender I'm
14:14
I'm lacking of that okay and then gender
14:17
fluid that term is more frequently used
14:20
these days how do people what does that
14:22
mean so gender fluid in in how I
14:28
understand it to be
14:29
is a person who doesn't identify with a
14:31
single fixed gender or who has a fluid
14:36
or unfixed gender identity so it could
14:39
mean a lot of different things of how I
14:41
express that next topic we're going to
14:43
talk about is gender non-conforming and
14:45
so this is a person who doesn't identify
14:49
as uh any specific gender meaning male
14:53
or female or trans uh and so this type
14:57
of uh presentation is is really I don't
14:59
want to be in a box I don't want to
15:01
conform to the rules and the Norms of
15:03
society and that can happen for a
15:05
variety of different reasons do you know
15:07
some of the reasons that someone might
15:08
identify as gender
15:10
non-conforming yeah it would be somebody
15:13
who doesn't really prescribed to
15:16
people's ideas or stereotypes about how
15:18
they should look or act based on female
15:21
male sex that they were assigned for so
15:24
this has more to do with like assigned
15:27
behaviors that go with specific spefic
15:30
uh genders according to societal norms
15:32
and standards I'm a little girl so I
15:34
play with dolls I'm a little boy so I
15:36
play with yeah okay and so uh for those
15:39
who don't really want to be in any sort
15:42
of box in that way they say I'm not I'm
15:44
not unsubscribed I'm not going in any of
15:47
those directions and then um yeah okay
15:51
great and so let's talk about the um the
15:54
last one that we're going to discuss
15:55
about gender or identity and that is
15:57
transgender can you tell tell us a
15:59
little bit what that about what that
16:00
means sure transgender is really an
16:04
umbrella term for people whose gender
16:06
identity or their gender expression is
16:09
different from the cultural expectations
16:12
placed based on the sex they were
16:14
assigned at Birth so being trans or
16:18
transgender doesn't imply any specific
16:21
sexual orientation so it may be that
16:25
they identify as straight gay lesbian by
16:29
pan agent or anything under that it's
16:33
it's more of the the idea that it's not
16:39
what the assigned at Birth gender given
16:43
is the one that I identify with okay all
16:47
right and so we've talked a little bit
16:49
about some of these terms but let's talk
16:51
a little bit more about some other terms
16:54
that people use and let's just give them
16:56
a rundown on what do those things mean
16:59
so we've got queer what does queer
17:01
mean ah so queer is is really an
17:05
expansive term it expresses a spectrum
17:08
of
17:09
identities so it's often used as a catch
17:13
all to include lots of different people
17:15
so I could identify as by and queer or I
17:21
could identify as queer because I not
17:24
EXT exclusively straight or maybe I'm
17:27
nonbinary or maybe I'm more Gander
17:30
expansive so it's it's
17:32
previously um given as a really
17:36
derogatory or slurred expression but now
17:39
is reclaimed by parts of the lgbtq plus
17:43
movement okay thank you and then um
17:45
cisgender let's talk about what
17:47
cisgender is I know you mentioned it a
17:49
little bit but just A Brief Review yeah
17:52
yeah so cisgender would be I'm assigned
17:56
female at Birth I look like a girl so so
17:59
I'm identifying as a woman now and that
18:04
matches the thing on my birth
18:06
certificate and then last but not least
18:09
we want to talk about non-binary what is
18:12
non-binary so non-binary is an adjective
18:16
describing a person who doesn't identify
18:20
exclusively as man or woman so I might
18:25
have somebody who identifies as both a
18:28
man and a woman somewhere in between
18:30
falling completely outside of those
18:33
categories um they might also identify
18:36
as something else with within their
18:39
gender expression maybe transgender but
18:42
not all binary people do so again it's
18:46
one of those umbrella terms that
18:48
encompasses a lot of different
18:49
identities such as agender Bender gender
18:53
queer gender fluid some of the other
18:55
terms that we've talked about all right
18:57
great so let's talk about another Hot
18:59
Topic that people are you know uh kind
19:03
of seem to have not a lot of gray area
19:05
on their stance on this topic which is
19:07
pronouns uh I hear from people who get
19:10
very frustrated with the with the need
19:12
to identify if I look like a woman why
19:14
would I say I identify as she her that
19:18
should just be assumed and I hear I hear
19:20
on the other side well why should we
19:22
assume anything like I don't know who
19:24
they are as a person I don't know what
19:25
they think about themselves and I'm a
19:27
respectful person so I would like to
19:29
just know from their position how they
19:30
want to be referred to you know I don't
19:32
have skin in the game because I don't
19:34
actually have a preference or care about
19:37
what you want to be called and uh you
19:39
know I can remember being a kid and
19:40
being you know struggling with Miss M
19:43
Miz and how all those things meant
19:44
something special and people would get
19:46
so offended if you did the wrong one and
19:48
so I think we've been dealing with these
19:51
uh labels for lack of a better word for
19:53
a long time in history but you know this
19:56
is just the more nuanced one depending
19:58
on someone identifies in their gender
20:01
and so let's talk about how to use
20:03
pronouns and and why it's important uh
20:06
so what do what what would you describe
20:08
as why this is even a thing we need to
20:09
worry
20:10
about well it's it's a thing because
20:14
it's how somebody wants to be identified
20:17
and and how that shows up in their
20:21
everyday life of their expression of who
20:24
they are so again it's one of those
20:28
things that that we don't really know
20:30
unless we ask a person right we have a
20:32
lot of assumptions about oh because I
20:35
look a certain way that's how I'm trying
20:37
to express myself and we just don't know
20:40
right until we ask yeah just like if I
20:43
would ask you if you wanted to be you
20:46
know Miss M or Ms or whatever that is I
20:51
would still ask you know what is it that
20:54
you prefer right I don't like to be
20:56
called
20:57
ma' right and we correct that don't we
20:59
don't call me ma'am I'm looking for my
21:01
grandma you know I don't want to be so
21:03
we have preferences and those things
21:04
seem to be more acceptable so I think as
21:07
we broaden and we zoom out I think the
21:08
important thing is is to think about is
21:11
it's just a way to show respect you know
21:13
using the correct pronoun that they
21:14
personally prefer it's a way to show
21:16
respect it's an acknowledgement of their
21:18
identity and their existence it's like
21:20
who are you and how do you see yourself
21:22
as a person uh I can remember one time
21:24
talking with my husband and you know he
21:26
said I have a hard time with military
21:29
background when everybody was Sir or
21:32
ma'am and this is part of the the
21:34
teachings and then he said one time I
21:36
said ma'am and it was a male and he said
21:38
I felt so bad and uh and so you know and
21:42
this was just a typical history but the
21:44
person didn't uh they they didn't appear
21:47
as their gender was and it didn't match
21:50
and so he felt really small and and that
21:53
was from just a sir or ma'am moment and
21:55
so these things happen depending on what
21:57
what uh what matches what someone looks
21:59
like and I think we're just trying to uh
22:01
help people understand it's okay to ask
22:03
you know how would you like to be
22:04
referred to uh and we want to avoid
22:06
misgendering for the reason I just
22:07
discussed I mean an incorrect pronoun
22:10
use it's like it's like asking someone
22:12
if they're pregnant when they're just
22:13
overweight it's it's
22:15
embarrassing right it's like bad feel
22:18
good no it doesn't feel good feel good
22:19
as that person yeah it doesn't feel good
22:21
to the person right and it's the same
22:23
kind of thing it's that's a I think
22:24
that's a comparison that people could
22:27
understand like now just Bridge it
22:29
closer and go hey this is why it's it
22:31
can be a little bit disconcerting or un
22:34
uh disrespectful and and potentially
22:36
hurtful we don't want to be hurtful as
22:38
humans when we can so um I think that it
22:42
also helps to elicit a broader
22:44
understanding of mental health and
22:45
well-being we are all humans who humans
22:48
are all creatures who need belonging
22:50
acceptance we need to feel part of
22:52
something and it's so necessary in our
22:55
we're tribal animals and so being able
22:57
to feel belonging and understanding uh
23:00
makes us have better mental health and
23:03
our overall well-being is uh is
23:05
oftentimes better when we are seen and
23:07
understood for who we are as a person so
23:10
just being conscientious and kind and
23:12
just asking I think is um is an okay
23:15
thing to do uh someone asked me once
23:17
recently you know why do you write she
23:19
or her uh I think it was a might have
23:22
even been on a an Instagram post or
23:24
something and uh and and so it was it
23:27
was this conversation it was saying uh
23:30
because I although you think I look
23:32
feminine maybe someone else doesn't
23:34
think so and maybe just because I look
23:35
feminine doesn't mean I feel feminine
23:37
and so it's just a way to kind of let
23:39
you off the hook before you even have to
23:40
ask and say hey this you know this is
23:43
who I want to be called and this is how
23:44
I identify she or her uh works for me
23:47
and that said it just clears the air
23:50
without um needing to have uncomfortable
23:53
questions be part of it and so we we
23:55
want to be kind conscientious and help
23:58
to create an inclusive environment where
24:00
people feel recognized and seen for for
24:02
not just who you think they should be or
24:04
how you perceive them from the outside
24:06
but how they feel like they are and how
24:09
they want to be known in the world yeah
24:12
and to expand upon that too if I put my
24:17
preferences for my pronouns and I say
24:19
she her that could help somebody else
24:23
feel welcome and included to right say
24:26
what their pronouns are right right and
24:28
it and it just it just offsets that like
24:32
uncomfort potentially uncomfortable
24:33
situation where you know it may not be
24:36
so obvious for some people or they may
24:38
it may not match what is appearing to be
24:40
obvious so um and I think it helps to
24:43
break down stereotypes because there are
24:44
a lot of people that look a certain way
24:46
and they don't identify in the way that
24:48
matches a an outside social perspective
24:51
and so it helps us to recognize you know
24:54
if we do this it can help to dismantle
24:56
harmful stereotypes and and just
24:58
ultimately assumptions about gender and
25:00
identity in the in the in the big
25:02
picture of things yeah exactly and I
25:05
think too A lot of people get maybe
25:09
awkward or uncomfortable with that use
25:13
but I think the key takeaway is to be
25:16
humble and say that you're you know
25:19
going to get it wrong sometimes and if
25:21
you mess up correct yourself move on
25:24
keep an apology brief and genuine and
25:26
just practice right kind to yourself
25:29
keep learning everything that you need
25:31
to learn and you know move on with it
25:34
right and I think it can kick up shame
25:36
in people when they are pushed to have
25:38
to to to fall into more of these rules
25:42
you know I I I know I hear from people
25:44
that why do I have to ask what they what
25:46
gender they identify as can't can't we
25:49
just you know identify the way that we
25:51
were born and they want things to remain
25:53
simple and um you know it kind of
25:55
reminds me of conversations I've had
25:57
with older populations and saying things
25:59
like you know why do we change the way
26:01
we refer to someone in a different
26:03
culture or a different race and and and
26:05
it's like well because we know better
26:06
now so we try to do better now and it's
26:08
just about Universal respect it's about
26:10
you know saying hey I I see you I hear
26:13
you and I want to understand better how
26:15
to relate with you in the world and so
26:17
to me it's just not that hard it's just
26:19
not that hard to ask a question to be
26:21
curious and go hey all right if I got it
26:23
wrong my bad what would you you know
26:25
what would you rather be called instead
26:27
and it's it's just not about me and I
26:29
think that's the piece that people get
26:31
frustrated about is they get it kicks up
26:34
shame you know I get it wrong I have to
26:35
work so hard I I'm confused it's not an
26:38
area I understand and so because I don't
26:40
understand I kind of want to avoid it
26:41
and shut down and if we could just open
26:44
our hearts to a more Universal accepting
26:47
energy about all things that we are
26:49
confused about or we don't understand I
26:51
think the world would just be a Kinder
26:52
place and so this is just about getting
26:55
curious being open and recognizing
26:57
there's a lot of things people don't
26:59
understand and if we can take a curious
27:00
loving kind approach we can figure
27:03
things out you know and like I said it
27:05
just doesn't cost that much doesn't cost
27:06
that much to be curious and ask
27:08
questions exactly and staying open with
27:11
that Curiosity and having humility for
27:15
right I'm gonna mess it up and let me
27:17
know and I'm going to try to practice
27:20
and I'm gonna do my best but I I will
27:24
make a mistake because I'm human right
27:27
right so I know that this topic is you
27:30
know it it it can create a lot of
27:32
tension in certain circles I know that
27:35
um based on a lot of religious and
27:37
cultural norms this topic is really
27:39
forboden and it's very um uh it's it's a
27:43
tricky topic to discuss and some people
27:45
are very uncomfortable in this Arena so
27:47
my hope is that this just offers a
27:50
little bit of Education that it can
27:52
start the conversation because um
27:55
ultimately kindness is the way the world
27:57
is going to be better anyway if we can
27:59
approach people that we may or may not
28:02
fully understand with love with kindness
28:04
with uh a heartfelt uh curiosity then I
28:07
think there there can be a lot less
28:09
conflict and a lot less harm and a lot
28:11
less hurt in the world and so that
28:13
that's my hope for this show and uh
28:16
broadening perspectives and just
28:18
learning a little bit about something
28:19
you may or may not have understood as
28:21
well as as you maybe do now so that's my
28:24
hope for this show so Carlin thank you
28:26
so much for being on today I really
28:27
appre appreciate your time I know that
28:29
it took us a handful of tries with our
28:31
technology issues and such but I
28:33
appreciate your diligence of sticking
28:35
with it and uh seeing it through and um
28:38
and for those of you watching I hope
28:40
that you learned something and maybe you
28:42
can share it with someone who's
28:44
struggling with understanding some of
28:45
these things and maybe this is an
28:47
opportunity for an expansion of learning
28:49
um but ultimately this whole show is
28:51
about understanding human behavior and
28:53
recognizing that people will do things
28:55
that may or may not make a lot of sense
28:57
and if we can approach things with a
28:59
curious and open loving stance then
29:01
ultimately uh the world is a Kinder
29:04
place so uh on that note thank you for
29:06
tuning in and I hope that you move
29:08
forward until our next show uh with love
29:11
so don't forget to lead with love it'll
29:13
never steer you wrong
29:16
[Music]
29:28
you
29:33
[Music]
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