0:00
Despite the fact, as I say, many of these people have been returned, the scenes were extraordinary, weren't they, to see that sheer number of people trying to enter this tiny territory, and indeed many succeeded in doing so
0:10
I think the previous peak had been 10,000 or so, and this is closer to 60. That's right, yes. Quite extraordinary images, I think, coming in there
0:20
And as you point out, this kind of thing itself isn't unprecedented, but this kind of scale of this number of people, 50,000, 60,000 people trying to get in all at once as well, I think obviously caught both the Spanish and the Moroccan authorities on the ground somewhat wrong footed
0:44
And there have been some increasing numbers of people trying to get in over the last few weeks
0:54
But I don't think anyone was expecting, you know, tens of thousands of people to try and do this, all within a very short space of time here
1:06
So, yeah, we have got those images, which do, I'm sure, must be quite alarming around Europe, not just in the theatre and in the rest of Spain
1:18
Do we have, I mean, I've read different accounts of this, Jonathan, and obviously we can't say with any degree of certainty
1:25
but what are the main theories during the rounds at the moment as to why this surge of such extremity has happened at this time
1:32
Right. Well, the main theory that seems to be going around is that this traces back to a decision by the Spanish Supreme Court at the beginning of July
1:47
Now up until then Spain and Morocco had a kind of agreement where if people were trying to enter Spain by sea which is the only way you can do it from Morocco then the Spanish authorities could return those people to Morocco Now that turned out to be
2:07
of course, not entirely in keeping with Spanish and international law on these matters
2:14
So the Supreme Court in Spain ruled at the beginning of July that they would have to change
2:20
that. And that seems to have given a kind of signal or been sort of misinterpreted, I think
2:27
by a lot of people to say that maybe there's a chance here for getting into Spain if you arrive
2:33
by sea. And of course, the easiest way to arrive by sea in Spain is, of course, to go around the end
2:41
of the border at Feuta, which is basically a fence that comes down to the sea
2:50
if you can swim or just sort of walk around a kind of breakwater at the end, then you can get in quite easily
3:00
And that seems to have been exploited, as it were, by both organized groups who tried to get people into Europe
3:14
and also by individuals, probably, who just picked up on that and thought, right, maybe this is an opportunity
3:21
What doesn't seem to have filtered through is the fact that once you get, as you pointed out, once you get into theatre, there's really nowhere to go
3:28
It's a tiny place. I think it's about the size of Hackney, I think, if you put it in London terms
3:35
And most of it is hills and mountains. So there really wasn't anywhere for people to go once they got in
3:40
And as you pointed out, pretty much all of them have now gone back
3:44
So that's the main theory that this was a change in the regulations that was then being exploited
3:52
There are other theories as well It possibly important to remember that Morocco doesn recognize Theuta as Spanish and maintains a claim on the place
4:07
And also that over the years, Morocco does have sort of form, as it were, with, how shall
4:16
I put this, with somehow, or at least some people would allege, particularly in Spain
4:25
that they have manipulated this kind of thing to try and put pressure on Spain over particular
4:34
issues of the day. Now, Morocco, of course, would deny that. But it is interesting that the last time this happened back in 2021, when I think there
4:43
about 8,000 or 9,000 people tried to cross. That led to, fairly soon afterwards
4:50
to a change of position by the Spanish government towards Western Sahara
4:58
Yes, well, yes, as you say, it's been used as something as sort of a piece on the chessboard with Spain over the years
5:04
What, Jonathan, do you think, I mean, there's these emergency talks on Tuesday
5:07
between European Union leaders. The Schengen's era has already been part suspended
5:13
Is that much more than symbolic and a political move in the sense that, you know, as we've already discussed, it isn't actually that easy for migrants to traverse the mainland Spain from Thueta
5:25
And even if they do, obviously, it's a long way. Italy does not share a land border with Spain and so on
5:30
Certainly, Finland certainly doesn't. Very, very long way away. Is this anything more than symbolic action from within the EU or is it revealing of a more serious trend
5:40
I think it is largely symbolic. I mean, it's also part of the political chess game, I think, going on
5:53
It kind of noticeable that the governments that are pushing this meeting and saying that this is a big crisis and all that do tend to be the ones who have very much used immigration
6:09
and the immigration issue as a political tool, let's say, to get them into political advantage
6:23
So I would say that there's probably a sense in which these governments are using this crisis and exploiting this crisis to some extent in order to meet their political agendas
6:43
And I don't think there's really any sense in which the people getting into Theuta, as you say, can really go anywhere else
6:53
There isn't even an airport in Theuta. The only way out is by ferry to southern Spain
7:01
And that's fairly easily controlled. Overall, of course, as well, this is happening in an environment where the number of illegal immigrants
7:12
unregistered immigrants going into Europe from North Africa and elsewhere has been falling in recent years
7:19
so one also wonders if this isn't again a little politically motivated by
7:27
those parties that want to exaggerate or manipulate this kind of thing for their own reasons
7:38
Jonathan Gorbitt there who is a freelance journalist covered Mediterranean politics for many years
7:42
grateful to you, your thoughts on what is going on in Theuta
7:45
and what Andy Burnham should try and do about it If anything, or is this just the latest right-wing canard
7:52
basically images that we see time after time, when actually very, very few of them will ever make it to European shores
