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Shelagh Fogarty speaks with Chris Doyle, Director of the Council for Arab-British Understanding, about large-scale anti-Hamas protests in Gaza.
Masked Hamas militants, some armed with guns and others wielding batons, intervened, forcibly dispersing the protesters and assaulting several individuals.
Videos widely circulated on social media by activists critical of Hamas show young men marching through Beit Lahia, northern Gaza, on Tuesday, chanting, "Out, out, out, Hamas out."
Hamas condemned those involved, accusing them of advancing "suspicious political agendas" and deflecting blame from Israel.
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0:00
I'm joined by Chris Doyle, Director of the Council for Arab-British Understanding
0:04
to talk, well, to try to understand what lies behind and what the significance might be of these protests against Hamas
0:11
that we have been seeing on the ground in Gaza by Gazans themselves
0:16
Chris, thank you for joining me. It's a pleasure, Sheila. What's your understanding of, A, how these protests came about
0:25
and what it might lead to, what it might mean? Well, it's very difficult. These are protests that have taken place in the northern part of the Gaza Strip
0:34
There is a definite and overt anti-Hamas nature to them where they have said that they want to see Hamas out
0:42
But there are also, in these protests, very strong objections to what Israel has been doing to Gaza
0:48
And of course, it's imposed a complete blockade on Gaza since the 2nd of March
0:54
That is a blockade on all the population in terms of not allowing in food, water, medicine, fuel, vital for their survival
1:02
I don't think we should be that surprised, given Hamas's failures, that there are people that will object to their rule
1:10
It's authoritarian. It is one that many don't agree with. But of course, rather a sort of a blitz mentality that most Palestinians in Gaza have not been willing to protest against Hamas, partially because they see the greater challenge has been the Israeli aggression, what many people now see as a genocide in Gaza
1:33
I mean I was just thinking about what it must have been like to live through this and be like still to live through this They must be exhausted The people who have survived the first round of this war must be exhausted And if you add to that the hope that must have existed in the past however difficult the circumstances the hope that will have existed in the last couple of months or so completely dashed by the resumption of the war you can almost see why people would just think enough enough all of you stop These protests are also taking place in the northern part of Gaza
2:09
which has actually seen the most devastating aggression. Before we had the deal in January
2:16
we had months of Israel really going into the northern part of the Strip
2:21
and pushing people out and destroying it in a way that the rest of the Strip hadn't even seen
2:28
So for those in that area to be coming out, it shows that desperation
2:35
And I think also in terms of hope going forward, we now see Israeli ministers openly saying
2:42
you know, we've established an immigration bureau to encourage people to leave the Gaza Strip
2:47
not to be able to come back. They're saying it's voluntary, but it can't be voluntary
2:51
when people are being bombed and starved. That's at the barrel of a gun
2:56
And you have a U.S. administration now that openly endorses, encourages, promotes such a strategy
3:04
That's exactly what Donald Trump's Gaza plan is, to clean out Gaza, to empty it
3:09
So there is a sense amongst Palestinians of where does this stop
3:13
What would actually bring this horror to an end? because the Israeli right leadership at the moment under Netanyahu
3:23
shows no sign of wanting to stop the aggression in Gaza. If anything, they want to escalate it, to shift it to the West Bank as well
3:33
And what will be left? It's like they're being offered a choice between ethnic cleansing
3:39
leave the barrel, or genocide. Take your pick. And there's nothing in between
3:44
On the subject of, quotes, emigration, have Egypt or Jordan moved their position at all on this
3:57
Because their initial response when Trump made his statements was no we not going to facilitate that on any number of grounds We not going to facilitate that Has that changed at all Not at all certainly not
4:09
in public. And indeed, Egypt and Jordan were both instrumental in producing a very different plan for
4:16
Gaza, a different reconstruction plan, with the assistance of other leading Arab states like
4:22
Saudi Arabia. And that plan actually has had the endorsement of European powers, including
4:28
Britain. And it's much more realistic because it is about reconstruction of Gaza for Palestinians
4:35
in Gaza, not emptying them out to go and live in different countries all over the world
4:40
Of course, Palestinians should be allowed to leave Gaza if they so wish. But you can't claim
4:45
this is voluntary. This has been brought about by the systematic destruction of all the civilian
4:51
infrastructure, hospitals. Making a place unlivable. Totally unlivable. I mean, water, infrastructure, the destruction at every single university. And we now see a situation in which
5:05
that has just been increased by a huge factor. And I think for Palestinians, it's now just a
5:14
struggle for survival. And if it means getting rid of Hamas, I think that what these protests
5:20
as saying, please go because we need to survive. I'm just wondering what you think the chances are
5:26
that even if these protests were to swell and become much bigger in scale
5:31
whether you would see some kind of departure by Hamas. And you said that they're difficult to pinpoint often, aren't they
5:40
Some of the leadership perhaps you can pinpoint, but not all the membership and the members of brigades and the like
5:45
But do you think if they did grow these protests, that could, let's say
5:51
pushes Hamas out of the picture to a degree anyway. In a way, that then puts more pressure
5:56
on Netanyahu, or could, should put pressure on Netanyahu to end the war Job done from his perspective You should be ending the war whatever But I think it very unlikely that these protests
6:11
will acquire the sort of levels, partially because people are exhausted that would mean necessary to kick out Hamas
6:17
which is obviously armed and strong. But also, let's be very clear
6:21
that the Israeli leadership are trying to instrumentalise these protests. They've been encouraging them
6:26
That actually does the opposite. it will undermine their legitimacy and they will be seen, therefore, as doing Israel's bidding
6:34
So I think it is best that Israel and its supporters are rather quiet about it
6:38
And we must remember to listen to Palestinians when they're protesting on all things
6:42
not just against Hamas or Fatah in the West Bank, the Palestinian Authority, but against that occupation. You can't pick and choose
6:50
When you listen. In history, if you look around the region and we've had protests in all sorts of countries
6:56
Actually, when foreign powers come in and try to support those protests, they don't necessarily help. And what is for certain is that history shows that bombing of people and then encouraging them to protest against a regime and authority does not work
7:20
I just don't see that that will get to that critical mass that will push Hamas out
7:26
Now, there is a chance that Hamas may agree to some sort of deal that sees them cave in on a number of issues, you know, with the Israeli government
7:39
But I don't think this is going to be brought about by those protests
7:43
and we need to support Palestinians to end that conflict and, of course, going forward to have a Palestinian leadership
7:55
both in the West Bank and in Gaza that is reflective of the wishes of the Palestinian people
7:59
That's worthy of the name, yeah. Thank you very much, Chris. Chris Doyle, Director of the Council for Arab-British Understanding
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