WATCH: Zia Yusuf says Shabana Mahmood's asylum plan will only work if she 'defects to Reform'

which I'm sure you also found fascinating

because this is the biggest overhaul of the UK's asylum system potentially since the Second World War

What's your reaction to it? There's some hard-hitting stuff in this plan, isn't it? Do you think it will work

All we have at the moment is rhetoric, and rhetoric does not change the laws

Rhetoric will not prevent judges from frustrating deportation of even foreign nationals who have committed the most heinous crimes

such as murder. So the answer is because this is a Labour Home Secretary, I'm afraid it's not going to see the light of day in terms of actually getting legislation passed

Christopher, you actually alluded to that. We haven't yet seen a bill

We've already had, I think, 17 at the latest count backbench Labour MPs publicly come out and condemn the proposal

Some of these MPs are openly calling their own Home Secretary racist

So, look, I mean, Nigel's already somewhat tongue in cheek saying, look, Shibana Mahmood, if she really wants to stop the boats and really believes in this stuff, and maybe she does, then put in an application to defect to reform and we'll see what the team come up with

But the reality is we've seen this before. When I first saw this legislation, when I saw the news about this on Sunday, the first thing I said was Shibana Mahmood was doing a Sunak

And what I mean about that is people watching this program will remember Rishi Sunak as being one of many senior politicians, ministers, or indeed prime ministers in this case, who set themselves..

Do you remember Rishi actually set himself a KPI Do you remember that It was one of his KPIs as prime minister He was going to stop the boats And what happened The boats kept on coming Let look at what actually happened under Labour And what happened is boats have continued to come

The number of illegal crossings has gone up north of 30% since Labour came to power

The one-in-one-out programme is obviously an absolute shambles, more like a game of the okie-koke

And you know the phrase we haven't heard in a really long time, Chris, is smash the gangs

I don't think I heard the word smash the gangs. There was no smashing of gangs happening in that. And the legislation is the fundamental point about legislation being critical in politics and the ability to pass it

That borders bill, which was supposed to help them smash the gangs, was introduced in January, Chris, and it still has not passed

So, sadly, this is going to be yet again lots of rhetoric from the Labour Party

I want to make one other point, too, from GB News viewers, because in amongst all of this, there was also something of a Trojan horse amongst all the fireworks and destruction over here in the use of the F word in the House of Commons to grab headlines

What was also there is a new, quote, safe and legal routes program with an unspecified cap

So Labour also Trojan horsing a new asylum program to bring even more people into the country

And they are unwilling to even put a cap. if you're worried actually that this can lead to more immigration into the

well she said last night in the comments as you know that will be hundreds and that will grow into a bigger number without saying what it is and she

wouldn't tell us would she either what is her target which we pushed a hard

there on what is success she won give us those measurables but don you think I mean are you worried at Reform UK If this works well for a start it proving that you doing well in the polls

they're responding to your lead. But if this works, it could mean you've got less likely to

win power in 2029. If they can sort out the broken border, the immigration border

that's a problem for reform, isn't it? Chris, we'd be delighted if it worked. Remember

Remember, you were at the press conference. Remember, me and Nigel stood beside each other, and we published our Operation Restoring Justice Deportation Plan

We laid out in detail the legislative reset that was required, not just leaving the ECHR, which Labour refusing to do

also derogating from every international treaty, like the 1951 Refugee Convention, which will then be used for straight deportations

once you're out of the ECHR, if you don't derogate from those things. We laid all of those things out because we actually want to see

improvement in this situation. That's the only reason why we did it. So actually

the only reason Siobhan Mahmood has come out guns blazing in terms of rhetoric is because

of the fact that reform has made this such a big issue. We also saw this with ILR

if you remember that now, there's movement on that as well. The problem is these are all

a half-baked in the case of ILR. And in this particular situation, there's a reason why

she's not committing. I mean, surely it should be the simplest thing in the world. When you asked the Home Secretary how we should judge her plan to stop the boat, the only correct answer is if the boats stop

And she knows that is not going to happen. You alluded to the Home Secretary appearance in the House of Commons yesterday when she described being called an FNP and being told to go home How did you feel when she spoke about her experience of racism

I actually think, look, everyone has their own reasons for doing things

I think some people will be watching that and wonder why is it as awful and horrible as that racist abuse was

why that was the thing that suddenly apparently has made her realise how important it was to address immigration

I mean, reform. Nigel's been talking about this now for decades. And don't forget, this is the same Shabana Mahmood, who you can just go online and see videos of literally welcoming illegal immigrants on beaches

You know, so yet again, there's a politician that has said one thing and been in the total opposite side of the argument to the one that she makes now

So, of course, that's that's horrible and racist abuse. But the reality is this. The vast majority of people in this country are sick and tired of being told that they cannot have a border, that Britain cannot have sovereignty, that the fact that we spend north of 50 billion pounds a year in defence, including a lot of that on a formidable Navy, we still must allow our country to basically be invaded by unarmed men in small dinghies

and there's nothing we can do about it. And that has nothing to do with racism or using racial slurs or anything like that

It is simply down to the rule of law and the complete unfairness of people watching this program

on their way to work right now who are being asked to spend a significant percentage of their day

to pay the state so that billions of pounds can go on putting people up in hotels

who have no right to be in the country. Those are the fundamental reasons why this problem needed to be addressed years ago