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WATCH: Scrapping jury trials will make 'no difference' to justice system backlog, Sir Michael Ellis says
Dec 2, 2025
David Lammy's plans to reform Britain's justice system have been branded a "grotesque infringement of our fundamental rights".Speaking to GB News, ex-Attorney General Sir Michael Ellis took aim at the proposal put forward by Justice Secretary, declaring any solution to the backlog has "nothing to do" with the jury.FULL STORY HERE.
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0:00
Morning
0:00
Whatever the criticisms of David Lammy, he is right that there is a severe backlog in the court system
0:06
that is causing justice to be delayed. Well, Miriam, the fact of the matter is that
0:12
this is another mastermind decision from David Lammy. The reason for the delays, the reason for the backlog
0:19
in our court system has got nothing to do with juries, literally nothing to do with it
0:24
Juries will add a few hours to the average case, perhaps a day at most
0:30
for their deliberations in the average Crown Court jury trial, which lasts two or three days
0:35
What's causing years of delay are empty courts because of underfunding, courtrooms that are not able to function
0:44
because they're in dilapidated court buildings, judges that aren't able to sit
0:48
because there isn't the funding allocated to the judiciary to sit on various days
0:54
and the increasing complexity of court cases, because unlike in previous decades, you now have vast amounts of digital data
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Everyone has a mobile phone with an encyclopedia of data on it
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that all has to be trawled through in many of these cases. So what actually causes the delay has nothing to do with juries
1:15
If David Lammy actually bothered to ask anyone who works in the Crown Court system
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they would perhaps find out that that's the case. So this is a grotesque infringement of our fundamental rights
1:28
Rights by the way that you been saying far predate the Human Rights Act and ECHR and all that sort of thing How is it that this Labour government Andrew and Miriam is able to say
1:41
well, we can't touch ECHR because it's fundamental to the rule of law
1:46
and that's only been around for two or three decades, but they want to interfere with an 800-year-old principle of jury trials
1:54
and that isn't to do with the rule of law? Well, clearly, they're talking nonsense
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Why? You see, I'm glad you've raised these points, because I just was racking my brains thinking, why is he proposing this
2:08
It's unpopular. And you're making the point, it's not practical and it will make no difference anyway
2:15
It won't make any difference to the delays. There are unconscionable delays in the court system. That is true
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And it shouldn't be the case that cases take years to arrive in court
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That puts incredible stress on witnesses. It puts unfair stress on defendants and all the rest of it
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So justice delayed is justice denied. No one wants delays of two, three, four years
2:38
But it isn't anything to do with juries. Juries just add a few hours to the average case, maybe a day at most
2:46
There are years before, sometimes two years before the police decide whether to charge someone
2:51
It can then be another couple of years before a case gets into court
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partly because the Crown Prosecution Service are taking so long to decide to prosecute and
3:00
to collate all of the evidence. And that's partly because of the digital reasons that
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I said So this really is an irrational decision from this government And it isn just about delays It also about the fact that there will be a cost to this
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a cost in justice, a cost in the reputation of this country
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We've already got the Americans, haven't we, saying what about what's happening to free speech rights in the UK
3:28
Now they're going to be saying what on earth is happening to the fundamental principle of juries, which they got from us
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and which we're now seeking to abandon. And, you know, Andrew and Miriam
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the fact is that about 95% of cases right now are heard by the magistrates anyway
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It's less than 5% that are in front of a jury. So that's not the reason for the delays
3:52
We've got empty courtrooms and we need an injection of common sense
3:57
in many of these cases. And the juries do that, in my experience
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And I prosecuted and defended, Andrew, I don't know whether you as a young reporter covered any of my cases
4:07
but, well, you still are a young... Good recovery, Michael. But the fact is that, you know
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they inject common sense into a lot of decisions, where previously the decision might have been taken to prosecute
4:24
in a way that the juries find unfair. And we've seen that in some recent social media cases, haven't we
4:32
where juries have robustly thrown cases out, where perhaps technically there was enough evidence to convict
4:39
but juries have taken the view, no thank you we don want to do that The other thing they haven thought about this government is that without juries they will get more convictions And if they get more people found guilty they going
4:52
to put more pressure on the prison estate, which is already breaking apart and collapsing under the
4:58
strain of underinvestment. And so they'll be robbing Peter to pay Paul and going to have to
5:03
invest more money in the prison system to cater for more prisoners. So all around, this is absolutely
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the wrong decision. And I do hope that Parliament, I'm sure the House of Lords will give it a short
5:15
shrift. Well, I was going to ask you about that, Sir Michael, because the House of Lords, they're
5:18
just going to chuck this out. It's not in the manifesto. There's no manifesto commitment to this
5:22
It's come out of nowhere, this policy idea from Lammy. Absolutely right, Andrew. This is a
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fundamental thing that ought to really be in a manifesto. It wasn't even mentioned. It's something
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that the House of Lords will recognise as an essential part of this island nation's history
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that we actually exported around the world and the people around the world greatly value
5:49
in democracies anyway, not so highly valued in autocracies and dictatorships. But the jury system really works. And people who have actually appeared before juries
6:01
to prosecute and defend cases, recognise that. We've got to recognise that there are fundamental rights
6:08
that governments don't actually have a right to interfere with, especially when they're getting it wrong anyway
6:15
the rationale being completely erroneous that it's going to reduce delays. It won't
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