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Bridget Phillipson, the Education Secretary and a contender for the deputy leadership of the Labour Party, joins me now in the studio
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Lovely to see you in the flesh. I know you've got a very important announcement about anti-Semitism in schools and universities
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Before we get on to that, can I just ask you about this spying scandal? Because it's all over the front pages of the Sunday papers once again
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The government said no ministers were involved in deciding evidence in the case
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But did Keir Starmer or any other ministers know what was going on before the case collapsed
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Because if they didn't, it just suggests that Jonathan Powell, the National Security Advisor
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is doing what he wants without any oversight by the Prime Minister. So these are decisions and matters for the Crown Prosecution Service
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who take decisions about whether or not to proceed with the prosecution. It's worth just pointing out that because this took place back in 2023
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it was on the basis of the legislation enforced then. We now have the National Security Act, so the law has moved on in order to allow for prosecutions
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But this ultimately was a matter for the Crown Prosecution Service. We are very disappointed that the prosecutions didn't proceed
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But that is unfortunately where we are. But we've had various different people, including our own security services, including Simon Case, who is in charge of the civil service
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saying that the government intervened in this case so that the case collapsed by not suggesting that China could be described as a threat
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They carry out cyber attacks. They steal IP. They have secret police stations spying on Hong Kong dissidents
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They have bounties on the heads of Hong Kong dissidents and indeed they sanction members of parliament
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In what world is China not a threat? Well we are clear as a government that China presents opportunities but challenges and threats alongside that So it is a threat There are threats and challenges that come It why we take a strategic approach to China And it why alongside that we are clear that this government number one responsibility
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is to the national security of our country. Of course, we need to engage with China
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They're a big economy. But what comes first is our national security. So if China is a threat, then this spying trial shouldn't have been collapsed by the government
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not saying that it was a threat? China presents threats and challenge
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but we also believe that China presents opportunities in terms of our trading relationships with Chinese businesses
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But if China does present threats, then it is a threat. We agree on that
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Therefore, the spying trial shouldn't have been collapsed. The trial and the evidence that was connected to that
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predates this government, goes back to 2023, and was ultimately a matter for the Crown Prosecution Service
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The head of the Civil Service then, Simon Kaye, said it was designated as a threat. So China is a threat to Britain. I can't speak to what
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Simon Case has said. All I can make clear is that we are disappointed the prosecutions didn't go
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ahead. But this does predate this government. It goes back some years and it was a decision taken
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by the Crown Prosecution Service. Is the Chinese super embassy going to be opened in Tower Hamlets
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This is a process that's underway. It's a quasi-judicial process. I'm afraid I just can't
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comment on it. And do we know if any compensation was paid to Jingye when they ran British Steel
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into the ground? Apparently a sum of £1 billion has been mentioned. Again, I'm not in a position
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to comment on that. What I can say is that we did, of course, intervene to make sure that
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British Steel's future was secured at Shorpe. This whole scandal reflects very badly on the
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government, doesn't it? I mean, this case, as I say, goes back some years, and therefore I don't
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think it's quite so straightforward as that now. Let's move on to your question
