'Jog on!' Laila Cunningham hits out at critics amid claims Reform is 'pro-hate'

0:00
Leila Cunningham. Hi. 48, can I believe it? Your old mother of seven children
0:07
Yeah. You left the Conservative Party in 2024. I did. To join reform and you are going to be the next reform candidate for London Mayor
0:18
That's what we know. But I want to find out who Leila Cunningham is in this instance. Sure. So I said you're a mother of seven. Your first marriage ended. You were alone raising four children
0:28
you said that that was difficult it must be difficult being alone and raising four children
0:33
right yeah i mean they were quite little it was difficult because it can be quite isolating
0:38
because you know you raise the four kids and there's no one to kind of offset you know what's
0:43
this what should i do uh if they're ill you're the only one around um in a way it was one of the
0:50
hardest times of my life but one of the best because it's an unbreakable bond that you create
0:54
with your kids. It was us against the world kind of thing. What was also hard was raising men as a
0:59
woman because, you know, boys at some point, they do want kind of a father figure. But I did meet
1:04
my second husband. But, you know, raising men as a woman is not the easiest thing alone. But no
1:12
honestly, it was hard because obviously, you know, you're alone raising these four little humans
1:17
suddenly. And your responsibility is to make them into the best humans they can. And you don't want
1:23
to give them any of the negative things that you're going through
1:28
because of a divorce or because of life and you want to shield them from that. And I think I did
1:33
And actually I've raised the people I like hanging out with the most. That's nice. Yeah, that's nice
1:39
And you were an early sort of de party of the Conservative Party in 2024
1:44
My goodness, there's lots, lots more since. Have you made particular friends with any of those former Tory politicians
1:50
Is there anybody that really gets Leila? I haven't had the chance to spend that much time with them
1:55
You know, things happen fast in reform and in politics. I would like to sit down with them and get to know them
2:00
Listen, when I've heard their speeches, everything they said to, I could relate to. And I do think it is a particular person that defects to reform
2:07
It's kind of a principled person who really just is in it to do good for the party
2:13
I mean, that's why I am. And good, sorry, good for the country, not the party. And so I think we could become very good friends, but I haven't had the opportunity yet
2:20
I tell you what you could do with some lefties, though. I mean, there's a lot of Tories joining your party
2:24
For sure. I think there will be so-called lefties. I think it's about left or right anymore. Honestly, I just think it's about voters
2:30
You know, I honestly think it's about voters who just want a government, who just don't want to give half their money to the government and not get anything back
2:38
They want secure borders. They want safe streets. They want public services that work
2:43
They want to put up their flag, for God's sake. And, you know, they want a country that kind of recognises the sovereignty of the country
2:49
And I think that's why it's not about left or right anymore. You know, to be fair now, Gloria, you know, if you believe in sovereignty
2:57
if you believe in putting British people first, if you want to stop the boats and if you want to flag up, you're right wing
3:01
No, I would say that. You're far right. You neighbour. I would say that, but I hold those values
3:08
You're not like the rest of your party. You know, we have been called far right for wanting that
3:12
They would contest that. You are a Muslim. Yeah. How important is your faith to you
3:17
I mean, listen, my faith has always been a spiritual side of the faith
3:21
You know, for me, it's not all about me. There's something else, you know, when I was young and I don't know, I want to smoke a cigarette
3:29
You know, my parents will be like God's watching. How do you smoke the cigarette? Well, my kids don't know
3:35
But actually, you know, because I play basketball, if any of us smoked and we'd be breastless on the court, we'd get told off
3:41
So that definitely kept me off the cigarettes. But it has nothing to do with my politics
3:46
You know, absolutely not. And I do find it very disappointing that Muslim politicians in our political sphere tend to put their religion at the forefront
3:56
You know, for instance, Sadiq Khan, whenever you criticise London, he says, oh, you know, they just can't take it that there's a Muslim mayor
4:02
It's got nothing to do with him, you know, that he's Muslim. They say it's Islamophobic to criticise him
4:07
Honestly, it's got absolutely nothing to do with it. It is purely on his record
4:12
And I do think it's a shame that religion is always brought in. And I find it particularly from the Muslim politicians
4:19
They always try and bring religion into it and try and scream Islamophobia or some kind of discrimination
4:27
And I think that's wrong because if you're a politician in this country, your priorities and your allegiance is to the country
4:34
Otherwise, you shouldn't run. But you will no doubt have been subject to anti-Muslim hatred
4:40
I just looked on social media last night It is not hard to find people who call for you to be deported You were born in this country
4:51
I found social media messages to call for your 92-year-old mum from Egypt
4:57
to be deported back to Egypt with you, by the way. Just for this, yeah
5:01
Yeah. How do you feel when you see messages like that? Initially, I was shocked
5:05
I actually didn't know that kind of sentiment existed in our country
5:10
But listen, Gloria, I was at an event, an Adam Smith event, and a young girl came up to me and she said, why do they hate us so much
5:18
I'm also Muslim. And she says, why do people hate us so much
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And I said, listen, you've got to understand that you do have Muslim politicians such as Sadiq Khan, who rams the fact that he's Muslim as a reason not to criticise him
5:31
He would contest that, I'll just say. Yeah, but he does call people Islamophobic who criticise him
5:36
But he has the most secure... I mean, you would as well, you know, arguably because..
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I don't think people hate him. If you were to win. If you were to win
5:45
Well, I mean, he's won three elections, to be fair to him. No, but I don't think... I don't think the criticism of him is not because he's Muslim
5:51
It's because his record is terrible. We can argue on that. But you have Muslim politicians who kind of, you feel, are working perhaps for their faith first or their community
6:04
But you can argue with that or nothing. And I told her, listen, you've got to understand that people, they see Sharia courts flourishing
6:10
They see women in a burqa. They see Islamic terrorism. They see the Pakistani Muslim grooming gangs
6:16
They see people calling, you know, death to the West. And that is coming from Muslims
6:22
I'd say they're radical Muslims and it's being shoved down their throat. And they're like, for God's sake, we've had enough. We don't want this
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But that's not representative of people who are Muslims. 100%. It's not representative of me
6:31
But I was trying to explain to her where that hatred comes from. You know, I do find it offensive, but in a way, I kind of understand where they're coming from
6:39
They don't want another Muslim politician who's going to shove the religion down their throat
6:43
They don't want another Muslim politician who's going to fight for Islamophobic laws. They don't want another Muslim politician who's going to cover up Pakistani Muslim grooming gangs because they're Muslim and, you know, for community cohesion
6:53
And they don't want that. I don't want that either. And that's why I don't think religion should ever come into play
6:58
In fact, the Times, when I had an interview at the Times, she asked me, did you suffer racism when you were young because you're a Muslim
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And I had to think about it. And I said, you know what? I didn't because nobody cared
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And nobody even knew I was Muslim, not because I hid it, but because nobody asked and nobody cared
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You didn't wear it as a demographic badge. You were just you were nice. We were friends
7:17
You were we weren't. And I want to go back to that. You know, I want to go back to where you're judged on merit, on who you are, your personality, not on where your parents came from, your religion
7:27
And I think that's important. But there are people who are vile
7:32
The social media examples that I found. Presumably you don't want people like that too
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who are racist and vile to vote for you. Surely your argument is jog on
7:44
Oh, jog on, yeah. What people have to understand is reform is not about hates at all
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And those who want to demonise or hate certain groups, it's not what we're about
7:54
Like, for instance, I got a lot of hate online as well for attending a pride march
7:58
You know, saw that. And I will always march for gay rights
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You know, my people very close to me were arrested in Egypt for being gay and tortured in prison
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My best friends are gay and I will always march for gay rights. It does not mean that I am pro trans rights because I don't believe that women, you know, I'm very pro women's rights and I'm very anti trans encroaching on that
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And I've always been very forthright about that. But they always conflate everything online, right
8:25
You do one thing, it means you do this. And they don't understand the nuance of the argument
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And I do want to get out the message in London, we're really not about hate. We are about, though, prioritising people of this country
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And if you love this country, no matter where you're from, who you pray to or who you choose to love, reforms for you
8:45
We'll come to that in a minute. Because what if you are a burqa-wearing woman
8:51
some women wear the burqa as an interpretation of Islam to dress modestly
8:58
Now, women, my goodness, we're criticised for everything. I mean, shouldn't politicians not criticise anybody for how they choose to dress
9:06
Don't we have enough on our plates as women? So the burqa has nothing to do with religion, actually
9:11
The Quran says you have to be modest. It is a form of oppression. It is a form, it's a cultural, a radical form of Islamic culture, you could say
9:20
It's banned in certain Middle Eastern countries. In Tunisia, you cannot wear the burqa
9:24
And for me, it is a sign of oppression actually, but I agree that you shouldn tell people what to wear Who am I to tell a woman if she wants to wear it And I not saying don wear it I am saying that if you have a face covering in London I want to see that as a reason for stop and search
9:38
And I have spoken actually to a few shops somehow in in Lightsbridge where you do get and they said that they do come in a burka and they steal
9:46
You know, I had to prosecute a woman in a burka. You cannot if you ban all face coverings, but you let women wear a burka
9:52
What prevents criminals from wearing it and committing crime? You don't know who's behind that burqa
9:58
You cannot assume that it's only women. You have to ban face coverings because since they've become normalised since COVID
10:06
crime has become more brazen and it provides a cloak of anonymity for criminals
10:10
that the decent person doesn't have. So a woman can wear, just let me get your position clear on the burqa
10:19
You can be in London. In Leila's London, I would expect that if you are wearing a face covering, that will be a reason to be stopped and searched by the police
10:31
And how do you think if you are a woman who chooses to do that and interprets the Quran in that way and chooses to dress modestly
10:39
It really has nothing to do with religion. It's oppressive. It is a form of oppression and it has absolutely nothing to do with religion
10:48
And listen, if you want to wear the burqa and you want your wife to wear the burqa and then you don't want any kind of criticism or pushback on that, perhaps England is not the country for you
10:58
Wow. Yeah. I mean, you know, it is not a sign of an open society, an open free society
11:04
And if anything England stands for, why people come here is because the freedom it gives to people
11:11
Let's look at how you are polling. I'm just going to focus on one particular element of it
11:18
So there was a YouGive poll which found that over four in 10 Brits and half of Londoners think reform and its policies are generally racist
11:30
Why do you think that perception exists? What are you going to do about it? Was that in October
11:34
It was. So just after party conference, when the whole Labour conference was about how racist and fascist we are
11:41
And that does permeate into the general public. But listen, I think that's changed
11:46
I think we fought back on that. And I don't think that is the perception now. And I don't know who they polled
11:51
But when I walked down London, I mean, I was stopped by a guy in four piercings with black nail polish saying
11:56
Leila, we're going to vote for you in London. I was stopped by a Jamaican guy on Labrack Grove saying, Leila, we love you
12:01
We're going to vote for you. That is the rhetoric that's pushed by the Labour Party and some on the Conservatives
12:07
And it might permeate a little bit after conference. But that is not, with the people I speak to, that is not the impression I get at all
12:14
And I think that if you poll it now, people have a different impression. And there is a misconception, I'm going to give it to you
12:21
there is a misconception against some people I speak to that reform is anti-immigrant
12:26
I even get that from my son was like, mum, your mum's an immigrant
12:30
Are you going to kick her out? And I'm like, it's not anti-immigrant. It is about, number one, obviously illegal migration has to completely stop
12:36
Of course, I've heard that. All parties. Well, not really, because right now illegal immigrants are allowed to come in
12:42
and they're granted asylum. Right. But we want it to be treated that if you come on a boat, it is a crime and you're prosecuted, detained and deported for that, as the Border Act says
12:52
But that's not only one percent of illegal immigration is prosecuted. So we would you know that that would be a first stepping stone
12:59
And in terms of migration, our policy is always we want controlled immigration and we want people to be a net contributor
13:05
You know, in Dubai, there's only one visa and that's a work visa, because right now we have the highest tax burden since World War II
13:10
And we are paying for foreigners who've come on foreign cheap wages and can't support themselves
13:15
And the taxpayers paying for it and they just can't afford it anymore. And I think it's intrinsically unfair that people can come here and claim benefits when they're not British
13:24
So you said when we talked about the vile social media attacks on you, that those people should sort of jog on
13:30
You don't want their votes. I don't think I'll get their votes
13:35
Yeah. I mean, yeah, fair to assume. Now, the reform candidate in a current by-election was endorsed last week by Tommy Robinson
13:45
This is not helpful, is it? Listen, I think Tommy Robinson has his supporters
13:52
I wouldn't say they're all horrific because I know he has lots. I mean, that march that he organised was very well attended
14:00
So, you know, yes, he might have some aspects of his narrative might not be helpful
14:06
but he was the first to highlight, you know, the grooming gangs
14:10
You know the Labour MP back in the 90s actually to be fair Yeah Well yeah But you know and I think some of his supporters may have said vile stuff about me
14:23
I'm sure they're. Yeah, but I do think he has a large, he has a bigger support
14:27
and he does what he does and reform does what they do. And if it's helpful, I don't know, you know
14:35
Your new colleague, Suella Braverman, she said, this was last year, I'm a proud British Asian, but I'm not English
14:46
Are you English? I mean, ethnically, I'm not English. No, of course not. You know, my parents are from Egypt
14:51
So if that's what she meant. I mean, the other day I was asked, you know, how does your Muslim community feel
14:57
I don't have a Muslim community. My community is London. My community is Britain
15:01
And I don't want to be known as a Muslim Brit or a Muslim candidate
15:05
I am a British candidate. And that's it. And, you know, in recent times, there has been this like differentiation between British and English
15:13
I don't even know what it is. But no, I'm not ethnically English. But Britain's all I know. You know, Britain is my country and born and raised and I'll defend it with all I've got
15:23
And yeah, I mean, that's all I can say on that. I just think there's so much focus on these nuanced ideas
15:29
And I think that actually that actually splits us up. You know, what the political class have done is that they've managed to split us into different demographics
15:36
You know, right now, if you're white working class, you're too privileged to get some help. And when you put people into different demographics, you pit them against each other
15:44
You pit their needs against each other and you pit their priorities against each other
15:47
And it makes us seem that we're all fighting each other for what's needed
15:52
But actually, we are all British and we all have the same needs. And I listed them before, a government that actually serves us
15:58
And I think we should go back to that. OK, final question. So we've had quite a nice, warm chat here. But, you know, you're a very prominent media figure
16:07
I see you on those panels, including many on TV News. And you are combative, right
16:12
So, you know, some people say she's too brutal. Some people say she's incredibly effective at making an argument
16:19
Not for me to judge that. But I want to know, do you have a softer side? When was the last time you cried? Do you cry
16:25
I do, actually. When I'm on those panels, I do miss being in court, having a criminal trial
16:29
And I do kind of treat them like I'm interrogating a criminal because for me, some of the things they've done, they're not criminal, but they have destroyed the country
16:37
And I don't want to let them get away with gaslighting or defending it
16:41
And that's why I'm brutal. But, you know, I mean, my sister passed away from cancer three years ago and my sister was very, very, very close
16:49
And I was her carer, you know, I actually left my job to take care of her and be with her every day
16:56
and she was one of the most energetic, incredible women. She'd be up at six, jogging, working, you know
17:04
and she raised two amazing kids. And watching her, the way cancer eats at someone
17:10
it literally, it nibbles, you know, and eventually it gorges on that person
17:14
and they lose everything, you know. Her and I would love, we're the only ones in the family
17:18
that would only have leaf tea. We hated a tea bag and we'd travel
17:23
When we travel, we'd always take a bag of leaf tea And at the end, she couldn't even drink tea, you know, and she survived to watch her son get married in her hospital
17:34
It was a house that was made like a hospital on the Friday. And she died on my birthday
17:39
And when she, you know, they become lucid sometimes before people die
17:43
And she woke up and said, happy birthday. And then she died
17:47
And if I stop and think about her, I do cry. her passing away gave me a lot of energy because you never know what waits tomorrow. You just don't
18:00
know. And that's why I'm like, you know, throw whatever you can at me. I've seen the worst
18:05
My father passed away in 2000. You know, my husband left me. I've had some trauma. Luckily
18:12
my children are all good. But of course, of course I cry. And actually, I think my kids
18:19
would say I'm probably too soft with them. But on the panel, you know, the thing is, I'm not here to
18:25
play nice, right? And I'm not here to abide by a political consensus like everyone else is. In fact
18:30
an unheard journalist wrote an article about me and said, watching her, it's obvious that she's
18:35
not interested in engaging in any kind of political consensus, because I really do believe
18:38
that we have been let down so badly by a cabal of politicians and journalists who are so quick
18:46
to defend each other and not defend the people. And that's how I feel I am when I'm on these panels
18:55
Leila Cunningham, thoroughly enjoyed that chat. Thank you. Thank you for your time. Thank you, Gloria

'Jog on!' Laila Cunningham hits out at critics amid claims Reform is 'pro-hate'

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'Jog on!' Laila Cunningham hits out at critics amid claims Reform is 'pro-hate'

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