0:00
Katie, thank you very much indeed. I've seen that you're interested in this topic, that's for sure
0:06
Do you think the Equality Act needs to be written? What's the problem with these types of cases
0:11
The problem with these types of cases, as we're seeing them in practice, is equal pay for equal work sounds like a reasonable principle
0:20
but the outcomes that we're actually seeing when this law is applied are really unfair
0:25
So you mentioned the Next case. Now, in that case, three women, as you said, brought a case that said that the people who worked on the shop floor should be paid as much as the people who worked in the warehouse
0:35
Now, the reason that that's unfair is because the warehouse jobs were considered much less desirable
0:42
And so people had to be paid more money in order to fill those roles. And we know that specifically in this case, because Next had a recruitment drive for the warehouse, specifically amongst people who worked in shops
0:52
but people didn't take them up on their offer because they preferred working in the shop
0:57
And specifically the three women who brought this case, one of them said on the stand
1:03
she would only have even considered going to work in the warehouse if it had paid, direct quote, a lot more money
1:10
So businesses are left not being able to fill the roles that they have because they can't pay market rates
1:15
I mean, this is the fundamentally almost unimaginable part of it all
1:23
That people complained that they were not being paid as much as a completely different job
1:29
They were then offered well you can move to that job and be paid more for doing that job And they decided they didn want to do that job Have we reached now a stage where we have judges and committees and bureaucrats telling businesses what they can pay different
1:45
jobs in different roles? I mean, I thought equal pay was about the same job, but clearly not
1:51
What we have here is a classic case of unintended consequences. So the Equality Act sort of
1:56
doubles down on the Equal Pay Act, which was passed in 1970
2:01
But that was over half a century ago. You know, the world was very different. Society was very different
2:05
The job market was very different. It wasn't as easy, if you were a woman, perhaps
2:10
to get access to the higher paid roles that men had access to. But that doesn't apply in this case
2:15
Those days are over. Any of the women who worked in one of Next's shops
2:19
could have moved to go and work in the warehouse if what really mattered to them was earning more money
2:23
And they chose not to do that. And rather than respect individual choice and the needs of a company, the commercial needs of a company to pay market rates, we're now in a position where the law says that the courts can rule exactly what people are paid
2:38
OK, so what do we do about this? Does it need a fundamental change in the legislation
2:43
This particular bit essentially does. So the equal work for the same job is a principle that should stand in law
2:52
There's no reason not to have that. But what the Equality Act says is that equal work is not where the jobs are the same
3:00
It's not even where the jobs are broadly similar. But equal work is only where a job evaluation study, or the only real way you can tell
3:07
is where a job evaluation study rates the jobs as being worth the same. that bit is is uh that bit has to go
