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Join this live session with Magnus Mårtensson ft. Barbara Forbes for the next episode of The Cloud Show with Magnus Mårtensson on March 14, 2025 at 01:05 PM (EST).
GUEST SPEAKER
Barbara Forbes is the Azure Technical Lead at OGD in the Netherlands, recognized as a Microsoft Azure MVP, Microsoft MCT, and GitHub Star. In her work Barbara aims to be the bridge between strategy, technology, education and development. Focus areas include the Microsoft Cloud Adoption Framework, Generative AI, Infrastructure as Code, PowerShell and GitHub. Barbara is passionate about teaching in an accessible manner, in person, as a teacher for LinkedIn Learning and as a regular speaker at conferences and user groups. She is actively involved in the tech community. She contributes to the organization of major events, including the European PowerShell Conference.
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0:00
hello everyone and welcome to another
0:02
hello everyone and welcome to another
0:02
hello everyone and welcome to another episode of the cloud show here at Cloud
0:04
episode of the cloud show here at Cloud
0:04
episode of the cloud show here at Cloud Brew conference in Belgium so we're
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Brew conference in Belgium so we're
0:07
Brew conference in Belgium so we're standing at one of the sponsor boots
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standing at one of the sponsor boots
0:09
standing at one of the sponsor boots this is codit uh who are sponsoring this
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this is codit uh who are sponsoring this
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this is codit uh who are sponsoring this Community Driven uh conference which is
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Community Driven uh conference which is
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Community Driven uh conference which is lovely thank you kodit for doing that
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lovely thank you kodit for doing that
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lovely thank you kodit for doing that it's awesome and this conference by the
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it's awesome and this conference by the
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it's awesome and this conference by the way it's it's brilliant so I I urge
0:20
way it's it's brilliant so I I urge
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way it's it's brilliant so I I urge anyone to come in and attend it next
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anyone to come in and attend it next
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anyone to come in and attend it next year and maybe speak at it speaking of
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year and maybe speak at it speaking of
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year and maybe speak at it speaking of speaking at it I'm going to talk to
0:25
speaking at it I'm going to talk to
0:25
speaking at it I'm going to talk to another one of the speakers here about
0:27
another one of the speakers here about
0:27
another one of the speakers here about something really fun so essentially
0:30
something really fun so essentially
0:30
something really fun so essentially um we're going to talk about Powershell
0:33
um we're going to talk about Powershell
0:33
um we're going to talk about Powershell how to make your organization hate
0:34
how to make your organization hate
0:34
how to make your organization hate Powershell in three simple steps with
0:36
Powershell in three simple steps with
0:36
Powershell in three simple steps with the star of the show
0:38
the star of the show
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the star of the show [Music]
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[Music]
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[Music] Barbara hi hello Barbara how you doing
0:48
Barbara hi hello Barbara how you doing
0:48
Barbara hi hello Barbara how you doing I'm good how are you yeah it's brilliant
0:50
I'm good how are you yeah it's brilliant
0:50
I'm good how are you yeah it's brilliant to talk to you thank you for for being
0:51
to talk to you thank you for for being
0:51
to talk to you thank you for for being on the cloud show Absolutely and let's
0:53
on the cloud show Absolutely and let's
0:53
on the cloud show Absolutely and let's begin of course by telling the audience
0:55
begin of course by telling the audience
0:55
begin of course by telling the audience like who are you what do you do who am I
0:58
like who are you what do you do who am I
0:58
like who are you what do you do who am I yeah so my name is Barbara for
1:00
yeah so my name is Barbara for
1:00
yeah so my name is Barbara for and I work as the field C at OGD in the
1:03
and I work as the field C at OGD in the
1:03
and I work as the field C at OGD in the Netherlands from the Netherlands and I
1:05
Netherlands from the Netherlands and I
1:05
Netherlands from the Netherlands and I am an a mCP and a GitHub star nice and I
1:09
am an a mCP and a GitHub star nice and I
1:09
am an a mCP and a GitHub star nice and I did a session here you did a session and
1:10
did a session here you did a session and
1:10
did a session here you did a session and what was your session on that was on uh
1:13
what was your session on that was on uh
1:13
what was your session on that was on uh security when you are executing the ater
1:15
security when you are executing the ater
1:15
security when you are executing the ater portal oh nice good it was a good one
1:18
portal oh nice good it was a good one
1:18
portal oh nice good it was a good one okay it that's not what we want to talk
1:19
okay it that's not what we want to talk
1:19
okay it that's not what we want to talk about because I asked you what do you
1:20
about because I asked you what do you
1:20
about because I asked you what do you want to talk about and you said I want
1:22
want to talk about and you said I want
1:22
want to talk about and you said I want to talk about how to hate how to make my
1:24
to talk about how to hate how to make my
1:24
to talk about how to hate how to make my organization hate power shell in three
1:26
organization hate power shell in three
1:26
organization hate power shell in three simple steps yeah so with the risk of
1:29
simple steps yeah so with the risk of
1:29
simple steps yeah so with the risk of being a bit and let's make it clear I'm
1:30
being a bit and let's make it clear I'm
1:30
being a bit and let's make it clear I'm a big fan of Powershell I'm in the
1:32
a big fan of Powershell I'm in the
1:32
a big fan of Powershell I'm in the organization of the Powershell
1:33
organization of the Powershell
1:33
organization of the Powershell conference course I love Powershell but
1:36
conference course I love Powershell but
1:36
conference course I love Powershell but I've seen it gone wrong so many times
1:38
I've seen it gone wrong so many times
1:38
I've seen it gone wrong so many times uhhuh and I've done it wrong myself so
1:41
uhhuh and I've done it wrong myself so
1:41
uhhuh and I've done it wrong myself so many times so I feel I'm allowed to make
1:43
many times so I feel I'm allowed to make
1:43
many times so I feel I'm allowed to make this point you are allowed to make this
1:45
this point you are allowed to make this
1:45
this point you are allowed to make this ranty point go ahead what we seem to
1:47
ranty point go ahead what we seem to
1:47
ranty point go ahead what we seem to forget like with Powershell it's so
1:49
forget like with Powershell it's so
1:49
forget like with Powershell it's so approachable so we learn working with it
1:52
approachable so we learn working with it
1:52
approachable so we learn working with it quite early and we start automating
1:54
quite early and we start automating
1:54
quite early and we start automating stuff because it's awesome and we ask
1:57
stuff because it's awesome and we ask
1:57
stuff because it's awesome and we ask oursel can it be done and we NE never
1:59
oursel can it be done and we NE never
1:59
oursel can it be done and we NE never ask our
2:00
ask our
2:00
ask our should it be done okay I see I okay we
2:03
should it be done okay I see I okay we
2:03
should it be done okay I see I okay we we have a tool right and now now like we
2:05
we have a tool right and now now like we
2:05
we have a tool right and now now like we have a tool waiting for a problem right
2:08
have a tool waiting for a problem right
2:08
have a tool waiting for a problem right yeah yeah okay we have that and maybe we
2:10
yeah yeah okay we have that and maybe we
2:10
yeah yeah okay we have that and maybe we have a problem but we never realize are
2:13
have a problem but we never realize are
2:13
have a problem but we never realize are we actually saving time here okay
2:15
we actually saving time here okay
2:15
we actually saving time here okay brilliant okay so we're at a point where
2:17
brilliant okay so we're at a point where
2:17
brilliant okay so we're at a point where you are creating a solution and you have
2:20
you are creating a solution and you have
2:20
you are creating a solution and you have to maintain that solution yeah yeah and
2:22
to maintain that solution yeah yeah and
2:22
to maintain that solution yeah yeah and how much time did it take to do this
2:24
how much time did it take to do this
2:24
how much time did it take to do this manually and how much time is it going
2:26
manually and how much time is it going
2:26
manually and how much time is it going to take to keep this solution going to
2:29
to take to keep this solution going to
2:29
to take to keep this solution going to to maintain it yeah and especially and I
2:32
to maintain it yeah and especially and I
2:32
to maintain it yeah and especially and I felt this with almost every big
2:34
felt this with almost every big
2:34
felt this with almost every big Powershell project There is almost all
2:36
Powershell project There is almost all
2:36
Powershell project There is almost all of them including the ones I did myself
2:38
of them including the ones I did myself
2:38
of them including the ones I did myself people are asking yeah but can it do
2:40
people are asking yeah but can it do
2:40
people are asking yeah but can it do this and you think to yourself yeah it
2:42
this and you think to yourself yeah it
2:42
this and you think to yourself yeah it could and you're going to build it in
2:44
could and you're going to build it in
2:44
could and you're going to build it in and make it more complicated I see and
2:47
and make it more complicated I see and
2:47
and make it more complicated I see and then there's some updates layers and
2:48
then there's some updates layers and
2:48
then there's some updates layers and layers and you have to maintain that
2:50
layers and you have to maintain that
2:50
layers and you have to maintain that yeah and you get a situation where
2:52
yeah and you get a situation where
2:52
yeah and you get a situation where either you're spending your whole day
2:54
either you're spending your whole day
2:54
either you're spending your whole day maintaining something that was supposed
2:55
maintaining something that was supposed
2:56
maintaining something that was supposed to save time got it or you say um all
3:00
to save time got it or you say um all
3:00
to save time got it or you say um all right I've created a solution uh I'm
3:02
right I've created a solution uh I'm
3:02
right I've created a solution uh I'm going to do something else because your
3:04
going to do something else because your
3:04
going to do something else because your progress in your career and I leave
3:07
progress in your career and I leave
3:07
progress in your career and I leave everything for my co-workers to start
3:09
everything for my co-workers to start
3:09
everything for my co-workers to start maintaining it and they get to the point
3:11
maintaining it and they get to the point
3:12
maintaining it and they get to the point where they're like this is so
3:13
where they're like this is so
3:13
where they're like this is so complicated we cannot do this we're
3:16
complicated we cannot do this we're
3:16
complicated we cannot do this we're gonna build a new solution let's start
3:18
gonna build a new solution let's start
3:18
gonna build a new solution let's start over and we're GNA spend all this time
3:20
over and we're GNA spend all this time
3:20
over and we're GNA spend all this time again we're gonna make a better solution
3:23
again we're gonna make a better solution
3:23
again we're gonna make a better solution than the one we had because it turns out
3:24
than the one we had because it turns out
3:24
than the one we had because it turns out it was too complicated yeah or one and
3:27
it was too complicated yeah or one and
3:27
it was too complicated yeah or one and yeah then the new solution complicated
3:29
yeah then the new solution complicated
3:29
yeah then the new solution complicated as well yes I can see the I can see the
3:31
as well yes I can see the I can see the
3:31
as well yes I can see the I can see the the issue here and it's such a difficult
3:33
the issue here and it's such a difficult
3:33
the issue here and it's such a difficult dilemma especially with Powershell yeah
3:36
dilemma especially with Powershell yeah
3:36
dilemma especially with Powershell yeah uh because it's very approachable yeah
3:38
uh because it's very approachable yeah
3:38
uh because it's very approachable yeah but it can become very diff difficult
3:41
but it can become very diff difficult
3:41
but it can become very diff difficult it's well it's power shell right you
3:43
it's well it's power shell right you
3:43
it's well it's power shell right you feel empowered duh when you use it like
3:45
feel empowered duh when you use it like
3:45
feel empowered duh when you use it like it's like it's magical I can do this
3:47
it's like it's magical I can do this
3:47
it's like it's magical I can do this powerful things yeah which is awesome it
3:50
powerful things yeah which is awesome it
3:50
powerful things yeah which is awesome it if you're like a team of system
3:51
if you're like a team of system
3:51
if you're like a team of system administrators and there comes one
3:52
administrators and there comes one
3:53
administrators and there comes one person who has been working with
3:54
person who has been working with
3:54
person who has been working with Powershell for 10 years they're going to
3:56
Powershell for 10 years they're going to
3:56
Powershell for 10 years they're going to have classes in there they're going to
3:58
have classes in there they're going to
3:58
have classes in there they're going to have pester testing because that's
4:01
have pester testing because that's
4:01
have pester testing because that's and then the system administrators
4:03
and then the system administrators
4:03
and then the system administrators like way over our head we're going to
4:06
like way over our head we're going to
4:06
like way over our head we're going to build something else and your solution
4:08
build something else and your solution
4:08
build something else and your solution is gonna just fall down to pieces and
4:11
is gonna just fall down to pieces and
4:11
is gonna just fall down to pieces and you spend so much time on it so it's
4:13
you spend so much time on it so it's
4:13
you spend so much time on it so it's something that I wish that we would
4:16
something that I wish that we would
4:16
something that I wish that we would challenge ourselves to be like okay this
4:17
challenge ourselves to be like okay this
4:17
challenge ourselves to be like okay this is really cool to do but will it make me
4:20
is really cool to do but will it make me
4:20
is really cool to do but will it make me happy okay will make my company happy
4:22
happy okay will make my company happy
4:22
happy okay will make my company happy all right yeah yeah yeah yeah exactly so
4:24
all right yeah yeah yeah yeah exactly so
4:24
all right yeah yeah yeah yeah exactly so the the three steps you were saying like
4:26
the the three steps you were saying like
4:26
the the three steps you were saying like to make you hate it um don't consider
4:28
to make you hate it um don't consider
4:28
to make you hate it um don't consider time saved and time spend maintenance so
4:30
time saved and time spend maintenance so
4:30
time saved and time spend maintenance so just just go don't think about those
4:33
just just go don't think about those
4:33
just just go don't think about those factors um don't think about the level
4:37
factors um don't think about the level
4:37
factors um don't think about the level of the people who have to maintain it
4:39
of the people who have to maintain it
4:39
of the people who have to maintain it after you leave it exactly so if you're
4:41
after you leave it exactly so if you're
4:41
after you leave it exactly so if you're like this is highest quality power show
4:44
like this is highest quality power show
4:44
like this is highest quality power show and no one else can maintain it throwing
4:46
and no one else can maintain it throwing
4:46
and no one else can maintain it throwing time away trash yeah yeah
4:49
time away trash yeah yeah
4:49
time away trash yeah yeah and and then what was the third that I
4:51
and and then what was the third that I
4:51
and and then what was the third that I said I said another one um I don't
4:54
said I said another one um I don't
4:54
said I said another one um I don't know that's fine I mean you're we're
4:57
know that's fine I mean you're we're
4:57
know that's fine I mean you're we're already making a point yeah you're
4:58
already making a point yeah you're
4:58
already making a point yeah you're covering a lot of ground here and and
5:00
covering a lot of ground here and and
5:00
covering a lot of ground here and and you're you're so spot on that this is
5:02
you're you're so spot on that this is
5:02
you're you're so spot on that this is the problem right we we we we saw this
5:05
the problem right we we we we saw this
5:05
the problem right we we we we saw this this shiny tool and and and it was
5:07
this shiny tool and and and it was
5:07
this shiny tool and and and it was awesome and it made me happy right in
5:08
awesome and it made me happy right in
5:08
awesome and it made me happy right in the beginning I know the third one oh go
5:10
the beginning I know the third one oh go
5:10
the beginning I know the third one oh go ahead don't do a check if it already
5:12
ahead don't do a check if it already
5:12
ahead don't do a check if it already exists ah all right yeah yeah yeah so
5:15
exists ah all right yeah yeah yeah so
5:15
exists ah all right yeah yeah yeah so why why would I it not invented here my
5:19
why why would I it not invented here my
5:19
why why would I it not invented here my favorite example of that is um that's
5:21
favorite example of that is um that's
5:21
favorite example of that is um that's not Powershell but it's get up actions
5:23
not Powershell but it's get up actions
5:23
not Powershell but it's get up actions right if you search for arm ttk in the
5:26
right if you search for arm ttk in the
5:26
right if you search for arm ttk in the old days you get four different
5:28
old days you get four different
5:28
old days you get four different solutions doing the exact same thing the
5:30
solutions doing the exact same thing the
5:30
solutions doing the exact same thing the exact same thing and of course because
5:31
exact same thing and of course because
5:31
exact same thing and of course because it's more fun to do it yourself you
5:34
it's more fun to do it yourself you
5:34
it's more fun to do it yourself you always have the risk that this exists
5:35
always have the risk that this exists
5:35
always have the risk that this exists already not invented here we want to do
5:38
already not invented here we want to do
5:38
already not invented here we want to do it ourselves but before your company do
5:40
it ourselves but before your company do
5:40
it ourselves but before your company do a check maybe someone else in your
5:42
a check maybe someone else in your
5:42
a check maybe someone else in your company actually already did it right
5:44
company actually already did it right
5:44
company actually already did it right and so what would you like is there is
5:46
and so what would you like is there is
5:46
and so what would you like is there is there there's no probably no easy answer
5:48
there there's no probably no easy answer
5:49
there there's no probably no easy answer Simple Solution like what how do you do
5:51
Simple Solution like what how do you do
5:51
Simple Solution like what how do you do like how do you avoid uh this Powershell
5:54
like how do you avoid uh this Powershell
5:54
like how do you avoid uh this Powershell mess thing uh that's like what do you do
5:56
mess thing uh that's like what do you do
5:56
mess thing uh that's like what do you do instead I think the first thing is to
5:59
instead I think the first thing is to
5:59
instead I think the first thing is to wait for a second think before you start
6:01
wait for a second think before you start
6:01
wait for a second think before you start building which is really hard because
6:02
building which is really hard because
6:02
building which is really hard because it's less fun yes right prepare and
6:05
it's less fun yes right prepare and
6:05
it's less fun yes right prepare and think are we really solving a problem
6:07
think are we really solving a problem
6:07
think are we really solving a problem here just looking at the time spent okay
6:10
here just looking at the time spent okay
6:10
here just looking at the time spent okay and what time are we actually saving
6:12
and what time are we actually saving
6:12
and what time are we actually saving here and and draw from experience like
6:14
here and and draw from experience like
6:14
here and and draw from experience like we've wasted time before is there a risk
6:17
we've wasted time before is there a risk
6:17
we've wasted time before is there a risk that we're going to do that again yeah
6:18
that we're going to do that again yeah
6:18
that we're going to do that again yeah and maybe someone else has already done
6:20
and maybe someone else has already done
6:20
and maybe someone else has already done this before and maybe Powershell is not
6:22
this before and maybe Powershell is not
6:22
this before and maybe Powershell is not the correct tool it is becoming really
6:25
the correct tool it is becoming really
6:25
the correct tool it is becoming really complicated it is maybe you're looking
6:27
complicated it is maybe you're looking
6:27
complicated it is maybe you're looking for true
6:29
for true
6:29
for true I I have one of these I did an
6:31
I I have one of these I did an
6:31
I I have one of these I did an implementation of of azure Landing zones
6:33
implementation of of azure Landing zones
6:33
implementation of of azure Landing zones with Powershell and I deployed the
6:35
with Powershell and I deployed the
6:35
with Powershell and I deployed the Powershell to function apps and stuff
6:38
Powershell to function apps and stuff
6:38
Powershell to function apps and stuff right and now it is it is quite um I
6:40
right and now it is it is quite um I
6:40
right and now it is it is quite um I mean it can do things but it is
6:42
mean it can do things but it is
6:42
mean it can do things but it is complicated uh and I had to leave I had
6:44
complicated uh and I had to leave I had
6:44
complicated uh and I had to leave I had to pass that over to someone else so i'
6:47
to pass that over to someone else so i'
6:47
to pass that over to someone else so i' I've felt this exact pain that you're
6:49
I've felt this exact pain that you're
6:49
I've felt this exact pain that you're describing it's real pain is real we'
6:51
describing it's real pain is real we'
6:51
describing it's real pain is real we' all felt for it because it's so awesome
6:53
all felt for it because it's so awesome
6:53
all felt for it because it's so awesome when you spent like a whole day creating
6:55
when you spent like a whole day creating
6:55
when you spent like a whole day creating power shell it's working and it's like
6:57
power shell it's working and it's like
6:57
power shell it's working and it's like and it's so easy I'm so empowered now
6:59
and it's so easy I'm so empowered now
6:59
and it's so easy I'm so empowered now yeah and what you actually forget and
7:01
yeah and what you actually forget and
7:01
yeah and what you actually forget and this is a good thing think for yourself
7:03
this is a good thing think for yourself
7:03
this is a good thing think for yourself how good am I at Powershell maybe you
7:06
how good am I at Powershell maybe you
7:06
how good am I at Powershell maybe you are an expert at this Lev and other
7:08
are an expert at this Lev and other
7:08
are an expert at this Lev and other people might not be might not be good
7:11
people might not be might not be good
7:11
people might not be might not be good thank you I I we covered so much ground
7:13
thank you I I we covered so much ground
7:13
thank you I I we covered so much ground here I think that's perfect that's it so
7:15
here I think that's perfect that's it so
7:15
here I think that's perfect that's it so I want to thank you for being on the
7:16
I want to thank you for being on the
7:16
I want to thank you for being on the cloud show it was a pleasure talking to
7:18
cloud show it was a pleasure talking to
7:18
cloud show it was a pleasure talking to you today Barbara and go and continue
7:20
you today Barbara and go and continue
7:20
you today Barbara and go and continue enjoy the conference I will and audience
7:22
enjoy the conference I will and audience
7:22
enjoy the conference I will and audience see you guys next time on the cloud show
7:26
see you guys next time on the cloud show
7:26
see you guys next time on the cloud show [Music]