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Inside the Mafia Scene on Costa del Sol: An Exclusive Interview with Walt
In this episode, we dive into the hidden world of organized crime along Spain's Costa del Sol and Gibraltar, exploring the extent of mafia activity, drug trafficking, and how these influences shape local communities. Walt shares firsthand insights from his year living in La Linea, revealing the realities of narco culture, police corruption, and the intricate web of European drug routes.Key Topics:
The prevalence of mafia gangs in Costa del Sol and La Linea, with an estimated 200 active groups
How drug trafficking operates via speed boats from Morocco and the Atlantic
The role of local communities, including Gypsy and immigrant groups, in organized crime
The influence of narco money on local businesses, including bars and property
Corruption within Spanish police, judiciary, and political figures
The complex property and money laundering schemes linked to drug profits
The cooperation between various mafias—Spanish, Moroccan, Balkan—and their operations across borders
Challenges faced by law enforcement and efforts to combat the flow of illegal drugs
Future episodes: the safety for expats and tourists in these areas
Timestamps: 00:00 - Introduction to Costa del Sol's reputation for mafia activity
00:22 - Overview of the prevalence of mafia gangs in the region
01:06 - How geography contributes to organized crime proliferation
01:37 - Inside La Linea: the epicenter of drug smuggling and mafia activity
02:17 - Walt discusses his year living among narco communities
02:46 - The safety and crime dynamics in La Linea
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0:00
Welcome to the Olive Press, the rest is
0:02
Spain podcast brought to you by Stay
0:04
Shaw Expat for the first of our mafia
0:07
special series where we're going to get
0:09
to the real answers about how these
0:11
mafia gangs are in parts of the Cosadel
0:14
Soul, what it means for you, and is it
0:16
safe to walk the streets. [music]
0:22
>> Tell us more. Tell us what you know
0:24
about the mafia here in Costel Salt.
0:27
Yeah. Well, Caroline, you've been here
0:28
for nearly 15 years and I've been here
0:30
nearly 25 years and yeah, I has to be
0:33
said that it's a story that keeps
0:34
repeating and over those years I've done
0:37
so many documentaries for the UK
0:39
television stations, for Amazon, for
0:41
Netflix and it's it's fascinating. It
0:44
fascinates me that they always say that
0:46
this is the Costadidel crime as it as it
0:48
as it became known back in the 80s and
0:50
it's sort of kept that term and
0:53
realistically speaking we are looking at
0:55
a coastline with more mafia gangs than
0:58
anywhere else in the entire world and
1:00
that's simply due to the geography of
1:01
where we are and what comes in on our
1:04
coastline. Now,
1:06
traditionally, I always say that there
1:08
are 200 mafia gangs based on the
1:10
Costadidel crime. And that's basically
1:13
defined, a mafia gang is defined as
1:15
being a gang of a minimum of 30 people
1:18
in at least two countries. Now, you
1:21
know, this is everything from, you know,
1:22
you might have a gang from Liverpool,
1:24
from Manchester and England, but you've
1:25
also got the Yardis, you've got the
1:26
Triads, you've got the the Swedish gangs
1:29
and everything. You know, this is
1:31
something that has proliferated and is
1:33
not going away and uh it's it's been
1:36
something that the Olive Press has
1:38
covered for 20 years now and uh it
1:40
always fascinates me. Now, best of all,
1:42
we are so lucky that we've had a very
1:45
leading journalist that came from the
1:46
Daily Men in London that came to work
1:48
for us three years ago and has immersed
1:52
himself for us very fortunately. He he
1:55
helped anchor our Gibralta paper for a
1:57
year, but he has sat and worked and
2:00
lived amongst the thugs in Linia, which
2:02
is the epicenter without a shadow of a
2:05
doubt of of the of the crime and drug uh
2:08
capital here in Europe. And uh that's
2:11
Walter next to me here who's going to
2:13
fill us in on his year in Linia. So he
2:16
he's the man.
2:17
>> Thank you, John. I mean, first thing I
2:18
would say is Linia is a lovely place.
2:20
Don't believe everything you hear about
2:22
it, but do believe what I'm about to
2:24
tell you cuz um it's a nice town. It's
2:27
generally safe. You're not going to get
2:29
stabbed. But it there is a lot of
2:31
organized crime here and it is a town
2:33
that was kind of built on on on the
2:36
proceeds of drug smuggling um because
2:38
it's so close to the Moroccan coast. But
2:40
that was a few years ago. Now, you
2:42
things are always changing and
2:43
developing. Nothing stays the same
2:45
because the police are always trying to
2:46
stop it and the the robbers are always
2:47
trying to beat the police.
2:50
Today they today they say the um the
2:53
seas around s of southern Spain, you got
2:56
the Atlantic, you got the straight to
2:57
Jibralta, you've got the um the Alberta
3:01
which is the Mediterranean side, they're
3:02
all infested with narco boats. These
3:05
narco speed boats that go back and forth
3:06
between Morocco or nowadays they they
3:09
have the capacity these boats to go out
3:11
into the Atlantic. They're literally a
3:12
speedboat, you know, they've got no no
3:14
ke. [clears throat]
3:15
They're very vulnerable to big waves,
3:16
but they go out in the Atlantic and they
3:19
are non-stop all day out there waiting
3:22
to deliver drugs to the mainland. Um,
3:24
and this is what happens in my area of
3:26
Spain, which is Linia and the Campo
3:28
Dealto. And um, yeah, life life here is
3:33
interesting. It's a bit gritty. It's a
3:34
gritty place, Linia. Um, if you hang
3:37
around and walk around and meet people,
3:39
you will bump into people who do this.
3:41
Um, I know for a fact that one of the
3:43
main bars, I was told this by a
3:45
polytheal officer, one of the main bars
3:47
here, the most popular bars that I won't
3:48
name, but one of the main bars in Linia
3:52
was was bought bought and paid for by um
3:55
Narco money and everyone knows it. And
3:58
that's not to say that it's a narco bar,
3:59
but it's just that's where the money
4:00
came from to um
4:01
>> Wait a minute. So, are you saying that
4:03
just walking down the street in Ninia,
4:05
you could be crossing paths with narcos
4:08
on the daily?
4:10
>> Um, it's very hard one to say is
4:13
certain, but for example, in Linia, the
4:16
um the costume of choice, the clothing
4:17
of choice is the tracksuit, you know,
4:20
the oldfashioned scally tracksuit
4:22
>> classic.
4:22
>> And there's a lot of um I would say
4:26
community like a gypsy community here.
4:28
And without wanting to smear anyone,
4:30
from what I understand quite well, these
4:33
are the main kind of criminal groups in
4:35
the area. Some of them, obviously, not
4:37
all of them. And you've got um
4:39
neighborhood just above the main town of
4:41
of Linia, like to the north called El
4:44
Tabal. [clears throat] And if you go
4:46
there, it's just high walls. And it's
4:48
not even it's dirt roads. It's it looks
4:50
um like a weird place. You It doesn't
4:52
even look like a town. But behind these
4:53
high walls, if you look on a satellite
4:55
map and Google Maps, you see giant
4:57
mansions. uh swimming pools and and
4:59
expensive cars. And this is where these
5:01
guys live. They live enclosed enclosed
5:03
lives, living a life of luxury, not
5:06
necessarily the classiest taste from
5:08
decor or or luxuries, but um and that's
5:11
the life of a narco in Linia, but and I
5:15
mean I know some of these guys. It's if
5:16
you I know a couple of guys with ankle
5:18
tags um and they're very happy to just
5:22
uh sit and tell me their stories. I tell
5:23
them I'm a journalist and that's fine.
5:26
you know, I did try and do full
5:27
disclosure for for their benefit and um
5:31
you know, they they don't mind. They're
5:32
kind of nice nice I would say they're
5:34
nice guys. Like if I see them, I say,
5:36
"Hey, how are you? Might have a drink
5:37
with them." And and that's the the
5:39
community vibe here in Linia that
5:42
although it's all a bit on on the down
5:44
low, it's um it's quite safe, it's quite
5:47
friendly, it's quite communal, there's
5:49
not a lot of real crime um or at least
5:52
in terms of petty crime or or just
5:54
dangerous crime. What what what's their
5:55
what's their background? I mean, are the
5:57
do you talk to them in English or in
5:59
Spanish and and sort of [clears throat]
6:00
are these slightly higher these are the
6:02
guys that run the gangs or are these the
6:04
sort of troops on the ground you're
6:05
talking to?
6:06
>> The guys I've met are be like the
6:08
low-level guys. Ah, I've got to be a
6:11
little bit careful how I say I don't
6:12
identify them, but they generally they
6:14
speak English. Um, not all of them do.
6:17
Obviously, some of the more hardcore
6:18
ones will will speak the heaviest,
6:19
thickest and Spanish. A lot of them have
6:22
connections to Gibralta. Um I think
6:24
that's maybe where the English comes in.
6:26
>> Interesting.
6:26
>> And they're out on the boats and they
6:27
they tell me Yeah. like um one simple
6:30
journey will be four grand. There's this
6:32
a hierarchy. So the guy who's piloting
6:34
the boat gets the maximum.
6:35
[clears throat] He might get up to
6:36
12,000 20,000.
6:39
>> I thought it was I remember guy telling
6:41
me he got 50,000 for doing one of those
6:43
runs from Morocco, but maybe the price
6:44
has come down now because it's so
6:47
>> I'm sure it does fluctuate. Um but then
6:49
you got like the the runners on the
6:50
beach. So you get the guys who unload it
6:52
on the boat and then the guys will come
6:54
out and take it stash you sneak it away
6:56
into the local stash house. These are
6:57
all kids, teenagers and sometime you get
6:59
lookouts as well. I mean, it's actually
7:01
a very crazy thing cuz I did have a
7:03
retired cop that I met here. He was
7:06
actually chief of police in Fendera and
7:08
he came down to show me around and we
7:10
were in his car and we went
7:11
[clears throat] up to a miridor where he
7:12
got beautiful views of the stretch and
7:14
Jibralta and the rock and there was a
7:17
couple that had followed us up on the
7:18
motorbike and they look like a romantic
7:20
couple enjoying the uh the view as well
7:22
like we were not we weren't romantic of
7:24
course and um this guy's like they're
7:26
spotters and I was like how do you know
7:28
[clears throat] that? He goes, "They're
7:30
spotters. Trust me. I've been doing this
7:31
job for 40 years." And then um from
7:34
speaking to other guys on the other side
7:36
of the of the criminal fence, they tell
7:39
me, "Yeah, like any any kid could be a
7:41
spotter. They use kids to spot us
7:43
because it's kind of harmless. You know,
7:44
you're not committing a crime too much."
7:46
Um so where the polythe station is in
7:50
Linia, there's always a normally a man
7:53
with a heavy automatic weapon standing
7:54
at the door, which is not something you
7:56
see every day in a police station in
7:58
Spain. There's normally two or three.
7:59
They got a shotgun, they've got a
8:00
submachine gun, and they and they all
8:02
got guys on steroids. And they're quite
8:05
nice. They say hi to you if you walk
8:06
past. I walk past all the time. Um, but
8:08
then I do wonder if they think if I'm a
8:10
spy because I'm always passing passing
8:12
the uh the shop. It's Yeah, it's a crazy
8:15
place.
8:15
>> Is it black? I mean, is it obvious?
8:17
Because I think I heard the black
8:18
economy in in Linia is literally 50% of
8:21
the whole economy and the average wage
8:23
there is is tiny and I think 50%
8:26
unemployment. Is that officially the
8:27
official stats? But in reality, nobody
8:30
everyone's got money, no one's starving.
8:33
You know, it's it's it's it might be on
8:35
paper the third poorest place in Spain,
8:37
but actually it's the opposite. Well,
8:39
the whole the whole problem
8:40
[clears throat] with any of these kind
8:41
of how big is the narco trade questions
8:43
is you just guess you're just guessing.
8:46
50% 40% could be correct because from
8:49
what I understand a third of the
8:50
workforce works in Gibralta where the
8:52
pay is quite good or there's lots of
8:53
jobs um and a third of them don't work
8:56
and the other third are are um working
8:59
in a local authority in a town hall or
9:01
local government and that third that
9:03
don't work
9:05
who knows what they do like Linia is
9:07
full of barber shops um it's a bit of a
9:09
cliche but you try and find a barber
9:11
shop where the barber is not Moroccan uh
9:14
is hard in this town. Um I I got my
9:17
haircut this week and um Rocking Guy
9:20
came out and they all um do good
9:23
haircuts. They don't accept cash. They
9:25
don't accept car.
9:26
>> It's all it's all and then this they
9:28
come and go as well. The year I've been
9:29
here, I've seen them open and closed. So
9:31
there's a huge criminal economy going
9:32
on. There's lots of people making money.
9:34
It but everyone's kind of happy about
9:35
it. I think the police know about it.
9:38
From what I've been told, some of them
9:39
are of the payroll.
9:41
Um it's kind of the economy works as far
9:44
as it goes, you know, and there's no
9:45
crime or hardly any crime.
9:47
>> Is it like is it like The Wire the TV
9:49
series? So, you know, it's it's as every
9:51
single aspect of, you know, from top to
9:54
bottom from politics to the police to to
9:56
to schools is is like linked into the
9:59
sort of drug economy.
10:00
>> It's a very interesting question because
10:01
the mayor of Linia is a a beloved man
10:04
who's um man of the people. He lives
10:06
near me. I see him around. He knows I
10:08
mean and he'll stop and talk with people
10:09
and there's never been any suggestion of
10:11
corruption on his part which is rare for
10:14
a mayor in Andraia. They all seem to get
10:16
their hands dirty.
10:17
>> Franco, is it Franco?
10:19
>> Yeah, find Franco. Nice guy. Um but
10:23
like the part of the deal is it is like
10:25
the wire. have the cops and the robbers
10:28
went to school together, you know, and
10:29
there's um there's a center for deprived
10:33
kids that I went to see once um and they
10:35
just look after kids at the school and a
10:37
lot of these kids, you know, their
10:38
parents are involved in crime or or the
10:40
parents are in jail or you know, parents
10:42
can't raise their kids and so they end
10:45
up you teaching these kids how to like
10:46
clean themselves, how to wash, how to
10:48
brush their teeth because they don't get
10:50
any of this kind of like normal raising
10:53
of a child. And um they did say to me
10:55
that one of our jobs based is try and
10:56
keep these kids away from the narco
10:58
gangs
10:59
>> because um they get them young.
11:02
>> And I did I know one of one guy who's um
11:05
has claimed to be quite a big dealer and
11:07
I heard that he got kidnapped um
11:10
recently kidnapped and held at knife
11:13
point by a bunch of gypsies. This is
11:15
just the word on the street that was
11:16
told and I was like well that sounds
11:18
really awful. I knew someone I knew had
11:20
to go and pay the ransom. But then later
11:22
on, I think it turned out it wasn't
11:24
really a ransom. It just this guy owed
11:26
the money. He's having paid his debts to
11:28
the really nasty guys.
11:31
That's about as bad as it gets. I think
11:32
there was a lot of this kind of stuff in
11:34
within the drug community. Thevel
11:36
velcros they say in Spanish, which like
11:38
the ripoff, they they rob each other. So
11:40
obviously you can't go to the police. So
11:42
it's very common now to not traffic the
11:45
drugs yourself, to just let other people
11:46
do the hard work and then rob them.
11:49
>> Yeah.
11:49
>> This is the new trend. And and how many
11:51
I mean there's so so there's a very
11:53
famous family called the Castanos there,
11:54
isn't there? I mean how how many roughly
11:57
families control the local trait there
12:00
in in that area?
12:02
>> So those are the big names and they they
12:04
had I think the biggest criminal trial
12:06
in the history of Spain to um to try
12:09
charge them on trial put on trial. This
12:12
would been a few years ago and I I have
12:13
said to a couple of sources doesn't that
12:14
mean they're done now? and they say,
12:16
"Well, no, it just means that the next
12:18
generation comes up."
12:20
It's definitely the numbers of families.
12:22
I wouldn't know how many, but like they
12:23
say, 20 or 30 families just have it all
12:25
wrapped up and they all get along. I've
12:27
never heard of inter um, you know,
12:30
intergang violence here. They just
12:32
they're all families. They all
12:34
intermarried, [clears throat]
12:34
interrelated, and and they all eat lunch
12:37
and dinner together in the local area.
12:39
Um, but it's true. If you look out at
12:42
the sea, at the straight from a high
12:44
peak, a high vantage point, you do see
12:45
these occup
12:48
one police chief said that the area is
12:49
infested with them and and it's true.
12:52
Especially now with the storms you've
12:53
been having lately, they've all been
12:54
coming into shore to take shelter from
12:56
the storms and this has been creating a
12:59
very bad PR disaster for the Spanish
13:01
authorities because they don't do
13:02
anything. And then when they do do
13:03
something, it creates,
13:05
you know, like the people get shot, the
13:07
people get hurt, it creates real real
13:09
violence. And I did see someone someone
13:12
wrote on on Twitter that amused me. Um
13:14
they said what what's happening now in 3
13:16
years time it'll be featured in episode
13:19
two of Netflix's new series of Naros
13:21
Spain cuz that's where we're at. We're
13:24
definitely coming to that.
13:26
>> So I I heard that there's sort of an
13:28
area out in the Med that's neither
13:31
Moroccan nor Spanish. this open water
13:33
where apparently I think guess when the
13:35
weather's pretty good they all tend to
13:37
gather and there can sometimes be as
13:39
many as 30 of these boats in this area
13:41
and they'll sort of mill around and
13:43
they're kind of waiting for a moment
13:45
where they all peg it towards different
13:47
parts of the shore you know all the way
13:49
up to to Marba and further up towards
13:51
Benel Madna or Malaga and some of them
13:53
will go the other way to Alaserus and
13:55
that the authorities can watch but there
13:57
at the very most they're going to get
13:59
10% or 20% of those boats I don't know
14:01
if have you heard said that.
14:02
>> Yeah. Yeah. Completely. I mean, I think
14:04
the problem with catching the boats at
14:05
sea is very hard to catch the boat, you
14:07
know, cuz even if you catch up with it,
14:09
you board it like a pirate. It's just
14:11
not easy to catch them at sea unless
14:13
they run out of petrol, which does
14:14
happen. But I have spoken to one guy who
14:16
worked on the boats. And he said that um
14:19
it was it's quite grim. It's not like
14:20
you're having a party. You make your
14:21
little village of narcos, boat village.
14:25
You're in your tents on the boat. These
14:27
narcos, they make the little narco
14:28
villages. They bring the boats together
14:30
and they're not having a good time. I
14:32
was thinking you must have having a
14:33
party of the music like No, no, no, no.
14:34
You got your tent on your boat. You're
14:35
in your tent eating like dried noodles
14:38
or tin food and then boats come over to
14:41
give you more food. Sometimes the
14:42
fishing boats help them out, bring them
14:43
food. And he said the longest he's
14:45
waited out of seat was like I think 17
14:47
days.
14:48
>> Wow.
14:48
>> 17 days waiting in like it's you know
14:50
it's not always the nicest weather in
14:52
that part of the world.
14:53
>> No. just waiting waiting but he says you
14:56
get so bored and you don't always have
14:58
um like entertainment you know that's
15:00
why if you do look around on Tik Tok
15:02
there's a there's a um like a form of
15:04
Tik Tok called narco talk if you can
15:06
find it where these naros just upload
15:08
video clips of them being bored out at
15:10
sea coming down the boat it's it's there
15:13
myself
15:14
>> wow
15:15
>> you do see like I did a walk recently
15:17
from Aljaserus to Tarifa and it was a
15:20
lovely walk did three-day walk and going
15:22
along that coastline there from very
15:24
near to where you are the other side of
15:25
Gibraltar. We came across no less than
15:28
six boats that had just sort of either
15:30
ruined or been dumped on the coastline
15:33
and I see them a lot around Estapona as
15:36
well. These big boats have just been
15:37
dumped. Normally the the uh engines have
15:40
been stolen and taken off them.
15:42
>> Yeah. Yeah. The engines are critical.
15:43
Yeah.
15:44
>> Engines are critical. And you know I
15:45
remember one time lived here a long
15:47
time. One time we lived in in Sabanas uh
15:50
just outside in Casares and we were
15:51
walking back from supper at Sabanas. I
15:54
was with my two kids and we crossed over
15:56
a little river into Casares about 8:30
15:59
9:00 at night. It was dark, very dark
16:00
night. It wasn't no moon and we could
16:02
see um just by the shore there was a car
16:05
parked. There's a little entrance the
16:07
back of where we lived and there was um
16:10
Range Rover parked and then we looked a
16:11
bit closer and you could see there was a
16:13
boat there, one of those huge boats with
16:14
a couple of these big outboard engines
16:16
and there were three guys loading bales
16:19
onto the back of this Range Rover and
16:21
you know they did it so quickly and they
16:23
were off and in about 5 minutes or maybe
16:25
six, seven minutes they they drove off
16:27
really fast up the back behind where we
16:29
lived and and were gone. And I just
16:32
think that was amazing. And then
16:33
actually my daughter said, "Dad, um, the
16:36
boat, there's no one on the boat." And
16:38
and Alfie was like looking, "What?
16:39
What's going on?" And the boat just sort
16:41
of floated slowly out to sea. And they
16:44
were going, "Dad, why don't we why don't
16:45
we get the boat? It's a nice boat." And
16:47
I was like, "No, we can't touch it.
16:50
[laughter] It's like a 50,000 euro boat
16:53
with like I don't know how much those
16:54
outoid engines cost." You probably have
16:56
an idea. I mean, do they do they recycle
16:58
these boats ever? Do they ever use them
17:00
again or they just literally dump them?
17:01
It's a great question actually because
17:03
where they get made and then where they
17:05
actually store them when they're not on
17:06
the boats is a big question because if
17:08
it's anywhere in Spain someone's got big
17:11
questions to answer and I heard that
17:13
there was they would be made in um in
17:14
Portugal and other times in VGO but
17:16
that's years ago
17:18
>> did you hear that in England there was a
17:19
a BBC documentary radio they actually
17:23
found in Lowto a place that made these
17:25
ribs as they call them they were I
17:27
forget what that stands for rib
17:29
>> and they were shipping them and 95% of
17:31
them were going to Spain and they were
17:33
making so much money from it. And
17:35
eventually the authorities worked out
17:37
after a couple of years that this
17:38
particular boat builder in lower staffed
17:41
was making fortunes from drug. I mean he
17:43
couldn't blame it. He was just making
17:44
boats and people were buying them in
17:46
Spain.
17:46
>> That's the thing. There's so much demand
17:48
and it's not that hard to make them. So
17:50
you know it's like whack-a-ole. You stop
17:51
one guy, two more guys going to start
17:53
making them. But then also where do they
17:55
park them? And I can only assume this.
17:56
No one's told me this that they park
17:58
them in Morocco because you wouldn't you
18:01
could maybe park them in some cove in
18:02
Spain in Almania or you know some some
18:05
out of the way spot but I
18:07
[clears throat] think they're generally
18:08
going to be parked in in Morocco where
18:11
>> and are the Moroccans involved? I mean
18:13
how closely is the Moroccan authorities
18:14
I heard the Moroccan authorities very
18:16
much allow it to happen. They're very
18:18
much involved in it. I think I think and
18:20
I'm don't again want to slander Morocco
18:22
but I think there's a lot more
18:24
corruption and connance going on there
18:26
and from what you just see most of the
18:28
drivers most of the boat related
18:29
activity is Moroccan people speaking in
18:31
Arabic
18:33
>> so I think yeah they probably base
18:34
themselves in Morocco they've got a safe
18:36
haven
18:37
>> and then from there they can it's like
18:39
it's like the old pirates of the Barbary
18:41
Coast thing going on once again you know
18:43
few hund years later then they go out
18:45
the Atlantic they pick up the drugs from
18:47
these these ships that cross the
18:48
Atlantic cargo ships, then they come
18:50
back and then I guess they wait the
18:52
turn, then they deliver to Spain and
18:54
that's how drugs get into Europe at the
18:56
minute. That's how it's happening. And
18:57
and it's not I mean we should point out
18:59
and again I remember going on HMS Ocean
19:01
it's going back about eight or nine
19:02
years now and they were parked in the
19:04
Mediterranean and they were saying that
19:06
it's not definitely not just marijuana
19:08
it's cocaine and increasingly it's
19:10
heroin that's coming up from through
19:12
Turkey and it used to be used to come
19:14
through the Balkans but of course it got
19:15
so confusing there all the wars there it
19:17
became easier to come through North
19:18
Africa okay Libya was obviously a bit
19:20
problematic but they just pay the kind
19:22
of right gangs and and so the heroine
19:24
was also coming through Morocco and
19:27
across the frontier, you know, into
19:29
Spain. So, have you heard much of that
19:31
or I mean, what sort of is it all sorts
19:33
of drugs coming in?
19:34
>> Well, yes, that's a good question.
19:36
Heroin doesn't come up on the radar too
19:38
much, which is a good thing. Um,
19:39
occasionally it does. I wouldn't be able
19:42
to say what routes they come, but one of
19:44
the other key routes is um across the
19:46
Atlantic from from South America, of
19:48
course, and then you stop in West
19:50
Africa, the ports, and then they
19:52
transport it over land through the
19:53
desert to Morocco. And then it also gets
19:57
live to Spain on the on the small boats
19:58
which to me that sounds like um going
20:00
through the desert doesn't sound like a
20:02
lot of fun. But again in these countries
20:04
like Guin Pasau and Equatorial Guinea
20:06
these countries have no real kind of
20:09
state apparatus and I'm sure it's a wild
20:11
west down there and you can just get
20:12
away with whatever you want. So it could
20:14
be a safer option.
20:15
>> What about Alasirus Wool? Because again
20:17
I understand that the containers there
20:19
they only inspect at most 5% of all the
20:22
containers that come through Alirus.
20:24
Surely that's the biggest entry point.
20:27
>> So the biggest bust ever made of um
20:29
cocaine was at alterus. I think it was
20:32
two years ago. I think you me and you
20:34
cover the story John. Um that's a very
20:36
funny one. So they found 30 tons in a in
20:38
one container. 30 tons which is sorry.
20:41
Yeah. It was 30 tons, man. That's a
20:43
crazy amount of drug. That's like one
20:45
one year's worth of drugs the whole
20:47
seizure in one go. But the story got
20:49
much darker because um apparently the
20:51
reason they got caught is because
20:53
someone hadn't paid off the right people
20:55
and so um someone else ratted them out.
20:59
So it wasn't caught because of the
21:00
excellence of the uh port security and
21:02
the um when they started making arrests
21:04
the trail went all the way to the do you
21:07
remember this one John? One of the top
21:08
cops in Madrid. He had um millions
21:11
stashing the walls of his house in um in
21:15
the outskirts of Madrid. Uh do you
21:17
remember his name?
21:18
>> Um yeah, the guy that had the the
21:20
apartments in Esona, wasn't it? Linked
21:22
to him. The head of chief of the police
21:23
of National Police. No.
21:25
>> No, he's like the head of economic
21:26
crimes I think. So he was definitely in
21:28
the right field to be committing this
21:29
crime. But that's that was stunningly
21:31
scandalous.
21:32
>> Isn't that the exact problem? I mean and
21:34
just the other day we had a story,
21:35
didn't we, about a Guadia Seville who
21:36
was pulled over somewhere with correct
21:39
if I'm if I'm wrong 200,000 in cash in
21:41
the back of his his car. The money was
21:44
actually found in his um storage house
21:46
in storage safe in his house. But yeah,
21:48
they they basically found out he was
21:50
working in Kadith area, Kuad Seville,
21:52
and he was getting decent money to help
21:55
bring the drugs up the Guadalville
21:57
River, which is one of the main entry
21:58
points now for drugs. And I'm sure he's
22:00
not the only one because they they're so
22:03
proliferate and there's so much drugs
22:04
coming in that you wouldn't be able to
22:05
do that without a lot of people on the
22:07
take. Well, every time every time we've
22:10
reported on any of these big drug busts,
22:12
every single time, including the big one
22:14
out at sea the other day, I think most
22:16
amazing photograph we had in the paper,
22:18
I think it was 100 tons of cocaine. Of
22:22
the 14 arrested, one was a policeman, a
22:23
guardia civil. So, it's like every
22:25
single time we have one of these
22:27
stories, and I'm going to break four,
22:28
five, six times a year, every single
22:31
time there's a there's a policeman, a
22:32
national or a guardia civilian involved,
22:34
and often more than one. Often
22:36
polytheal. You're imagine you're a
22:37
policeman here. It boils down to one
22:39
thing. You don't pay the police enough.
22:40
Now I believe in England it's about
22:42
50,000 40,000 45,000 you pay a
22:45
policeman. Here they're paying the
22:46
police 2025,000.
22:50
That's not going to be enough. If they
22:52
suddenly can make in one go, you know,
22:54
50 or 100,000 by just turning a blind
22:56
eye or helping someone out or giving
22:58
them a bit of evidence, they're going to
22:59
take it. They're going to be corrupted,
23:01
aren't they? But if you pay them
23:02
properly and well, then the theory is
23:05
they won't do that.
23:07
The guard have they have for a long long
23:09
time been complaining because their job
23:11
is not not officially designated a
23:13
profession of risk. So they don't get
23:16
all the benefits and perks that they
23:17
would get. You know like I think if
23:18
you're like a deep sea driller you got
23:21
>> okay
23:21
>> a lot of money for that. And these guys
23:23
are out there fighting um naros are
23:26
wielding AK-47s and they've got little
23:28
pistols with like barely any body armor
23:30
and they're not protected as um
23:32
profession of risk and of course they
23:34
get paid peanuts. So, um, you're right.
23:36
The the whole system is set up for them
23:38
to take a take a bribe. Um, and I'm sure
23:42
that's a big component of how so much
23:45
drugs are flooding into the country at
23:47
the minute.
23:48
>> And look at all the look at all the town
23:49
halls. Look at all the places we report
23:51
on. You know, the likes of Marba, likes
23:53
of Esapona,
23:54
you know, all these towns where if you
23:56
look at I think there five of the last
23:58
six mayors in in Marba have been to
24:01
prison from a corruption and bribery.
24:03
We've had stories about judges that have
24:05
taken cash in car parks. Um even you
24:08
know you wonder I mean h Anderluth has
24:11
become a kind of basket case hasn't it
24:13
where this money talks and and and it
24:15
all really stems from this cash that's
24:17
coming in from drugs right that that's
24:19
where it all begins isn't it
24:20
>> well yeah they they talk about this
24:22
costel soul triangle with costel soul
24:25
being the like the epicenter but this is
24:27
not where the crimes take place per se
24:29
this is where everyone based themselves
24:31
they sometimes call it the United
24:32
Nations of crime because all these
24:34
mafias now today they they cooperate and
24:36
they work together and they pull all the
24:37
resources. So it's quite hard to draw
24:38
the line between where they start and
24:40
end. Um they love the head honchos are
24:43
based in in Costa del Soul and then the
24:46
logistics is all in the camp of defroto
24:48
where I am and this is a you get a
24:49
different kind of type of mafia they're
24:51
more you know Spanish they're the more
24:53
kind of guys from the street and but
24:55
they're the ones in charge of bringing
24:56
it in and hiding it and then of course
24:58
the money laundering is also a huge part
25:01
and this is why in Malba and Cost
25:04
property is such a big deal and a lot of
25:06
that money needs to be laundered and it
25:08
generally goes through property. So um
25:11
the whole property sector in so
25:14
>> yeah [clears throat] but these sectors
25:15
they are questionable you can't
25:16
obviously say it's all criminal but
25:19
there's question questions to be asked
25:21
about if they're doing checks on their
25:24
customers you know where's the money
25:25
coming from and how much how many villas
25:28
in Marba in
25:30
have been bought with drug money that's
25:31
a big question to ask
25:33
>> I think that's an impossible question to
25:34
answer though I mean something that we
25:37
can look into more is is how it's
25:38
divided isn't that you know basically
25:40
you're there in the on the kind of
25:42
grassroots local level where the troops
25:44
are in Linia and you know we're based
25:46
the main office up in Marbaya where the
25:48
the kind of the big bosses are and
25:50
increasingly make the decisions and they
25:52
all mix together and they all know what
25:53
everyone's doing and this is where the
25:55
200 gangs basically have their bosses
25:58
and that's something we're going to
25:59
touch on more I think in in the next
26:00
episode aren't we? Um
26:03
>> yeah,
26:03
>> but that's fascinating, Walt. That's so
26:05
interesting. And you know, you've I'm
26:07
sure you've got, you know, enough there
26:08
for not if not a book, then certainly a
26:10
series or something, a documentary um
26:12
from your experience there. I hope
26:13
you've documented it with photos and
26:15
videos and you've got it all written
26:17
down.
26:17
>> Yeah. Yeah. On the ground with the
26:19
narco. This is this is what I might call
26:21
it.
26:22
>> You heard it.
26:22
>> Before you go to Barcelona, I mean,
26:24
you're on your way to 30 different type
26:26
of criminal up there. No, it's going to
26:27
be interesting. I can tell you in
26:28
Barcelona there's a lot more um Serbian
26:31
mafias really what I've heard. Yeah.
26:34
Bulan and Serbian. Yeah.
26:35
>> Yeah. Well, looking forward to learning
26:37
more about the mafia in general, but I
26:39
still want to know is it safe? Is it
26:41
safe to go to the local supermarket here
26:44
in Marbaya here in Esapono? Is it safe?
26:46
Do you think
26:47
>> that that's that's that's exactly the
26:49
sort of question that we're going to
26:50
answer in our our next episode? And I
26:52
think it's a very important one. You
26:54
know, you're here Caroline. You've been
26:55
here a long time. you you know you're
26:57
you're obviously you know well behaved
26:59
and professional and you know you want
27:01
to know if you can go out if you are in
27:03
danger of being shot and if you are
27:05
going to mix with these people and and
27:06
be compromised in some way. So yeah
27:08
that's something we're going to answer
27:08
in the next episode.
27:11
>> Great. Well thanks for that. Look
27:13
forward to it.
27:14
>> Thanks guys.
27:16
>> Great. Thank you.
27:17
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