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Part 2: Dan Charnas Author of "Dilla Time: The Life & Afterlife of J Dilla..." Speaks On His Legacy
Feb 18, 2022
QUESTLOVE says"This book is a must for everyone interested in illuminating the idea of unexplainable genius.”
Dan Charnas takes on the unenviable task of trying to encapsulate the life's work of the legend J. Dilla in one book, but he did that and much more. Part two Charnas breaks down straight time and swing time and how it was perfected by J. Dilla.
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Part 2: Dan Charnas Author of "Dilla Time: The Life & Afterlife of J Dilla..." Speaks On His Legacy
https://youtu.be/DUbRHCJbbQM
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0:00
uh yeah his music
0:02
man informed our show
0:04
so many years that we played his music
0:06
before
0:07
uh i actually had a chance to meet him
0:09
and
0:10
something interesting about him was his
0:12
approach and you touch on it you know um
0:16
the difference between method and the
0:18
difference between phil
0:19
in his book yeah this this book offers a
0:22
lot of different resources that i think
0:25
is great and you you said let's talk
0:27
talk about it later in the interview but
0:28
i want to talk about the science uh you
0:30
were joined in this book you had you
0:32
worked alongside jeff how do you say
0:34
jeff's last name jeff paris yeah
0:37
and then you guys so jeff was able to uh
0:39
create graphs and charts that kind of
0:42
signify dilla's music and his process
0:45
and this is offered as a addition to the
0:48
book
0:48
it's
0:49
it's almost scientifically breaking down
0:51
what it is he was doing musically as if
0:54
that's even possible but you guys
0:56
attempted to do that and i think he did
0:58
an excellent job what is that about what
0:59
did you discover what did you learn what
1:01
was this scientific process
1:04
well the thing that always bothered me
1:05
about the way people talked about jd is
1:07
it was all feeling oh he has such a
1:09
great feel a loose feel a drunken feel
1:12
and we do that also to black artists a
1:15
lot we don't talk about the
1:17
the analytical intellectual side like
1:20
these were intentions of his too so i
1:21
wanted to sort of i guess bringing
1:23
balance to the force a little bit and
1:25
also people talk about oh all he did was
1:28
he turned the timing functions of his
1:31
drum machine off so he could play
1:33
freehand
1:34
they call it quantization for those of
1:36
you who don't make beats right but
1:39
that was an oversimplification it was
1:41
just that one of his techniques one of
1:43
many techniques he used and and really
1:45
doesn't get at
1:47
what he actually accomplished so i am
1:49
going to tell you in as simple language
1:51
as i can
1:52
what he did all right and it's big
1:56
i'm gonna take you all the way back to
1:58
europe
1:58
right
1:59
european music is all
2:02
straight it's all even beats
2:05
time is counted evenly in european music
2:09
one two three four that's it
2:13
opera symphonies all that stuff that's
2:16
straight time
2:17
in america in the 20th century we
2:20
evolved something called swing time
2:23
which is uneven beats which sounds like
2:26
one and two and three and four and one
2:28
and that is a retention
2:30
of african pop
2:33
the genius of african americans here on
2:35
the north american continent right so
2:37
straight time and swing time we've had
2:40
them both in our popular music in jazz
2:43
and rock and hip hop right um even in
2:46
this famous song you know bohemian
2:48
rhapsody by queen yeah right there's a
2:50
point in the song where they're doing
2:52
this little opera thing no no no no
2:55
that's straight time and then after he
2:58
sings bl's above has the devil put aside
3:01
for me
3:02
for me then it goes into this
3:06
that swing so you go from straight to
3:08
swing in one song that's how you know
3:11
the difference between straight and swan
3:13
but in 1998 in a basement in detroit on
3:17
an npc drum machine
3:19
james yancey
3:20
found a way to collide straight rhythms
3:24
and swung rhythms at the same time and
3:27
put them in conflict with each other and
3:29
that's what gives you that drunken
3:31
jerking loping limping kind of jd feel
3:35
it first starts to come out on this beat
3:37
tape that people now it's on youtube
3:38
people call it another batch you can
3:40
search for it j dilla another bet but it
3:43
really comes out on fantastic volume 2
3:46
by slum village
3:48
that time feel and then you will hear it
3:50
on commons like guava for chocolate in
3:53
2000 and then
3:55
actual traditional musicians start to
3:58
imitate what he did on the drum machine
4:01
so you hear d'angelo and questlove on
4:04
voodoo trying to replicate that machine
4:06
conflict with real instruments
4:10
and
4:11
it's mind-blowing within a few years
4:14
you've got like i said music soul child
4:18
jill scott flowed michael jackson
4:21
uh uh dark child brandy
4:24
everybody's doing that limping
4:26
time field
4:28
and i guess for me
4:30
as a professor as a historian
4:33
looking back on it i was starting to see
4:35
the history being written without him in
4:37
it or him just being a footnote
4:40
and i said you know what this his
4:42
achievements have not been properly
4:44
framed they need a name
4:46
and i'm going to name it i'm going to
4:48
put it right here and say
4:50
no it's actually an incredibly it's a
4:53
new time feel which is an innovation of
4:57
hundred year proportions
4:59
right
5:00
so yeah louie armstrong monk dilla for
5:05
real louie i know it sounds crazy
5:08
monk
5:09
dilla
5:10
absolutely
5:12
absolutely
5:13
absolutely
5:15
um how'd i do how'd i do how do we do
5:17
with the explanation
5:18
while you talking i'm thinking of songs
5:20
i want to play right now to demonstrate
5:22
it what are the ones i thought of was
5:24
raise it up what do you think about that
5:26
one
5:26
by slime village
5:28
man
5:30
i know there's a story about that too
5:31
did he to make his voice raspy he
5:33
recorded the vocals right when he came
5:34
out of bed in the morning
5:36
oh is that why he sounds like that okay
5:39
i hope you guys enjoyed this
5:40
conversation with dan charn dan used to
5:42
do a segment here on sway in the morning
5:44
you don't talk about it much damn you
5:45
don't brag about that
5:47
i i listen i brag about it it's just you
5:50
know i
5:52
i guess i guess i got cancelled you know
5:53
so i i i try to i try to lay low
5:56
you didn't get canceled what happened i
5:58
didn't i didn't
6:00
bring me back man you know what happened
6:01
man uh
6:02
when you stopped showing up
6:04
um
6:06
but it's not showing up
6:08
rob mark may jump right in your little
6:10
spot man hey listen
6:12
he's great he's a great journalist props
6:14
to props rob you know rob barkley okay
6:18
genius everything you see at genius rob
6:20
markman is behind okay the new still the
6:22
time the life and afterlife of the dilla
6:24
the hip-hop producer who reinvented
6:26
rhythm get the audiobook
6:29
you know listen to dan's voice
6:31
that's a book this is great uh let's
6:33
let's let's go to the phone lines all
6:35
right we got anton from detroit
6:38
uh rise and shine what up doe anton how
6:41
you doing is it antoine or anton
6:43
hey john and um what up brother yes yes
6:47
how are you hey yeah i called him before
6:49
a couple of times but uh yeah i didn't
6:51
even know
6:53
jay dillon back in the day but i knew
6:54
his mother and his sister because my
6:56
brother married his sister martha
6:59
for about 10 minutes they were married
7:00
it was back uh about 20 years ago
7:03
and this mother went to my church i knew
7:06
her and i knew his little brother and
7:08
little sister but i never really really
7:11
talked about j dilla like that
7:13
and it was just amazing that he was this
7:16
big i knew his music but i didn't
7:18
connect them two together for a while
7:20
but i just sent her a picture of him we
7:22
had a picture do a picture of him over
7:25
on uh off i-75
7:27
and i sent her the picture and she was
7:29
like oh i never
7:30
i i just this is so beautiful it was it
7:32
was crazy okay wow so wow that's one
7:36
degree of separation right there dan
7:38
antoine anton thanks for your call
7:40
wow uh
7:42
absolutely uh when when he talked about
7:45
his brother villa jay
7:47
um we had him on the show before and we
7:50
asked him about what does he think about
7:52
his brother's legacy and this is what he
7:55
had to
7:57
i feel like i learned everything about
7:59
the industry after my brother passed
8:00
like before i just saw what he was doing
8:02
in it and then stepping into it so you
8:04
know everything dealing with that and um
8:06
you know a lot of people that use my
8:08
brother's name you know for the wrong
8:09
reasons but you know what i mean it was
8:11
one of those things that you know you
8:12
just kind of let all that stuff out but
8:14
i don't feel salty about any of that
8:15
stuff like i'm actually happy you know
8:17
like more happier than ever now you know
8:20
again like i embrace it like i love my
8:22
bro and
8:23
it's like a true to him so yeah man he
8:26
opened the door and i'm gonna continue
8:28
always repping bro
8:29
that's what's up billy j man
8:32
that's great
8:34
can i can i say something though like
8:36
the story of john yancey is in this book
8:38
we call him illa jay but he's john yancy
8:40
and his story is in this book like it's
8:43
not just a story about j dilla it's the
8:45
story about the people
8:46
who raised him who supported him so it
8:49
is you're going to meet frank bush aka
8:52
franknet you're going to meet derek
8:55
aka dank you're going to go to church
8:57
with them right at vernon chapel that's
9:00
probably what our friend from detroit
9:01
was talking about you're going to meet
9:03
john really meet him you know we'll even
9:05
meet martha um you know his his sister
9:08
and i
9:10
i love them all like i i just think all
9:11
of their stories are so great you'll
9:13
meet the mothers of his children you'll
9:15
meet
9:16
the people who worked with him in los
9:18
angeles the you know photographer named
9:20
brian cross a filmmaker who took him to
9:22
brazil for the first time and uh you
9:25
know a woman there named samira shah who
9:28
who basically saves dylan's life while
9:30
he's in brazil like all of these
9:31
incredible
9:33
people
9:34
and their stories try to weave in
9:36
um because it is it's a it's a tapestry
9:38
nobody innovates and influences in a
9:41
vacuum
9:42
so all of these folks matter they all
9:44
matter
9:45
the interesting thing about jay dilla as
9:48
uh incredible uh magnificent and unique
9:51
as the person that he was including a
9:54
producer his music
9:56
ironically never reached i don't think
9:59
on the billboard charts he never went he
10:01
never got below 25. you know what i mean
10:03
like on the billboard truck that's right
10:05
on the pillow type truck
10:07
pops and i think was it light might have
10:09
been his most
10:11
yeah lights light went to like either 27
10:13
or 23 on the pop truck just shy
10:16
of the 20 mark you know which doesn't
10:19
mean it's less worthy it's just what i'm
10:21
doing is i'm comparing it to
10:23
the success that the neptunes timberland
10:26
and dr dre say we're having around that
10:28
same time hip hop was was had become pop
10:32
music
10:33
and yet
10:35
people when people speak about jade
10:36
dylan now it's like this incredible
10:39
lofty his drum machines in the
10:41
smithsonian people like i said people
10:43
ask why why i don't understand he never
10:47
hit
10:48
premier is better than him but you know
10:50
what here's what i say
10:53
when people talk about the best
10:54
producers right
10:56
i say j dilla is not a best anything i
10:59
wrote this entire book and i did not
11:01
call him the best anything j dilla is
11:04
not a best he is an only
11:07
he is the only producer
11:10
from all of electronic music not just
11:12
hip hop the only
11:14
composer
11:15
from electronic music to effect really
11:18
change the way traditional musicians
11:20
approach their instruments
11:22
again
11:23
that's pretty darn big
11:26
dan charnes is here we got people on the
11:28
phone line chiba is on the line from l.a
11:31
rise and shine shiva
11:34
how you living
11:35
shut up
11:38
what you want to say sir
11:40
hey uh so check it sway met you a ton of
11:42
times uh i actually bought your record
11:44
man back when y'all were still uh at the
11:46
beat doing uh the wake up show i bought
11:48
your record in amsterdam on some crazy
11:50
vacation uh peace dan charnes met you a
11:52
couple of times at power 106 with frank
11:54
v b
11:56
the the story you're telling right now
11:58
sway about uh meeting uh dilla in
12:01
amsterdam my big brother another dude
12:04
new york dave rest in peace was actually
12:06
there
12:07
i believe his son has a video of that uh
12:10
meeting but man when he came home and
12:12
told me that story he had tears in his
12:14
eyes
12:15
and uh it's crazy because i remember him
12:17
that was when dilla was living in la at
12:19
that time kind of towards the end
12:22
um but i remember i was working at loud
12:24
at the time and i remember him coming up
12:26
there and telling me the whole story and
12:28
he brought dilla by one time
12:30
uh
12:31
and i just remembered that whole era man
12:33
on the
12:34
yeah they were all crying telling me the
12:36
story how remarkable it was for him to
12:38
finally meet you
12:40
so yeah man that's about to make it oh
12:42
man
12:47
i think it was
12:49
let me tell you something if you ever
12:51
answered them the craziest stuff used to
12:53
go down at this spot called paradisios
12:56
it was the it was the weirdest spot to
12:58
go partying in amsterdam and things used
13:00
to just happen there
13:02
you know i was at what time i was in
13:04
amsterdam different time during the time
13:07
i met dilla and they start playing all
13:09
glocks down so i read up to the uh to
13:11
the dj i think i texted you that time i
13:14
was in there playing your song in
13:16
amsterdam
13:17
i feel like i texted you i don't i don't
13:19
know but uh and yeah and that was
13:21
paradisio's in paradise paradisio's it
13:24
goes down i don't know if it's still
13:26
open but amsterdam stand up for that
13:28
club yeah amsterdam uh common came on
13:31
our show and talked about his time
13:33
living with jay dilla being his roommate
13:35
you know while they were living in l.a
13:38
you know and i i
13:39
what kind of what the common off to to
13:41
me common
13:42
was the mc that really kind of helped
13:45
us know who jay diller was you know what
13:47
i mean didn't he
13:49
didn't mean common it was common because
13:51
we played all his music and it was like
13:52
who is this dude you know then rafael
13:54
sadiq being a friend of mines and with
13:56
uma and all of these different things
13:58
and you know um deangelo you know erica
14:01
badu
14:02
you know all of these
14:03
just straight trailblazers and music
14:06
that got a chance to be would be around
14:09
in and around and work with dylan what
14:10
did what did common have to offer in the
14:12
book
14:13
i think you're so right i mean even when
14:16
i saw him in 99 i saw somebody who was
14:19
almost kind of letting james lead right
14:22
he was he would wait for james yeah
14:25
jumps on james wouldn't even show up at
14:27
the hotel to pick him up he was very
14:29
patient with james because he knew that
14:31
if he waited he would get something that
14:34
no other
14:35
producer could give him and that no
14:37
other artist would have
14:39
and what i i you know i spoke to common
14:41
for the book i kind of called him i said
14:44
you know you're the james whisperer you
14:46
know what i mean by that like he he kind
14:48
of understood
14:50
what made james tick and what makes him
14:52
work and sometimes we you know we're not
14:55
willing to accept our
14:57
our friends flaws and personality traits
15:01
because they don't jive with our own but
15:03
common was super patient with him and
15:05
then when his friend
15:07
fell ill
15:09
he's like come with me you know come to
15:11
los angeles maybe you have a change of
15:13
scenery
15:14
uh the warm weather will be good for you
15:16
he was uh
15:18
as as good a collaborator and as good a
15:22
friend as jd could have ever wanted
15:26
and
15:27
i mean the sad part for me is i don't
15:29
think that
15:30
rasheed was common was prepared for how
15:35
james would decline
15:37
and so yeah comment it forced common to
15:40
you know confront a lot of emotions and
15:43
uh you know that we that story is played
15:45
out a little bit in in the book and i
15:48
you know i can see in common today the
15:50
still the the the feeling of loss um you
15:54
know you never if somebody's really your
15:56
brother they're never
15:58
you know they're never gone
16:00
you know and you're always
16:02
thinking about
16:03
it was a rare blood disease
16:06
that that took him from us but
16:09
with that blood disease he produced some
16:12
of the most spectacular music that ever
16:15
come out of the culture how much do you
16:16
think his health condition informed his
16:19
music
16:21
oh that's a really interesting question
16:23
um you know i do think the way that our
16:26
body is feeling
16:28
comes out in music especially because
16:31
james when people ask james well why do
16:33
your rhythms sound the way they do
16:35
what's that jd thing about and he's like
16:37
it's how i bob my head
16:39
so now think about
16:41
being uncomfortable in your body not
16:43
being able to move your body what does
16:45
that do to your music
16:47
i think you're right i think the fact
16:49
that his beats got super angular and raw
16:52
and and and jumbled
16:54
and and
16:55
you know uh mixed up
16:57
really had a lot to do
16:59
with what he was feeling inside of his
17:01
body i think that's a super point man
17:04
yeah absolutely man um dan charners is
17:06
here with us man i can't believe how
17:08
much how fast his time went by bro
17:12
yeah
17:14
just like that man i wish eminem had a
17:16
chance you know
17:19
he'll never cross paths with him did he
17:20
they did they did cross paths we talk
17:22
about it in the book there's a one
17:24
moment i mean i'm sure there were other
17:25
moments at the hip-hop shop but there is
17:27
one moment on uh you know how shoes has
17:29
a college show at the time on a radio
17:31
station there and peter james is the
17:34
number one figure in detroit hip-hop and
17:37
eminem is this unsigned emcee and eminem
17:39
walks in james walks out james gives a
17:42
gives him a pound walks out you know
17:45
there were ships passing in the night as
17:47
the cliche goes
17:50
man hey you got anything you want to say
17:53
yeah i gotta go to the next show okay uh
17:58
listen i love you all really thank you
18:00
so much it's so good to see y'all again
18:02
you too dan i'm right down the street
18:04
brother right down the street all right
18:07
just be obedient and take on this
18:09
mission it's necessary continue to tell
18:11
stories man and make sure like you said
18:13
when we hear these things
18:15
if the truth is missing fill in those
18:17
blanks feeling that truth thank you
18:19
thank you love you
18:21
love you too man also pick up his book
18:22
to big payback he tells a little bit
18:24
about the sway and tech story too our
18:26
real story though our lifestyle
18:29
as well as what's going to be done in
18:30
this industry yes so we've done some q
18:33
and a's about it the new book is de la
18:34
time the life and afterlife for jay
18:36
dilla the hip-hop producer who
18:38
reinvented rhythm is out now citizens
18:40
check it out dan have a beautiful day
18:42
tell the family i love them okay thank
18:44
you i will see each other soon tell him
18:45
i love him too brother all right
18:48
yeah
18:49
okay cool man
19:05
you
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