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Jason Flom & Jimmy Dennis Talk Overturning His Wrongful Conviction for 25-Year Prison Sentence
Apr 30, 2022
Jason Flom and Jimmy Dennis stopped by Sway In The Morning to talk about the Innocence Project and all the great work they are doing to overturn wrongful convictions.
On October 22, 1991, when 17-year-old Chedell Williams and a friend went to Fern Rock subway station in North Philadelphia, two men approached them and demanded Chedell’s earrings. She refused and ran, and one of the men chased her to nearby 10th Street and Nedro Avenue, where he snatched the earrings, and shot her in the throat. Her friend was left unharmed. The two men were joined by a third man who was waiting in a 1978 Chevy Malibu. Chedell died at a hospital less than an hour later. The pressure was on the police and prosecutors to solve the crime, when some local “stick-up boys” named 21-year-old, burgeoning R&B vocalist Jimmy Dennis as a potential culprit. Hearing of this, Jimmy went to the police to confront the rumors, maintaining that he was on a bus miles away at the time of the murder with eyewitnesses to corroborate his claim. No forensic evidence tying Jimmy to the crime was ever developed, and evidence and eyewitness accounts that proved his innocence were suppressed. In this emotional interview, we hear the story of a promising musical career curtailed and a 25-year-long battle with a wrongful conviction from death row.
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0:00
to uh
0:01
take my word for anything
0:03
just read the documents
0:05
22 year old james dennis shied away from
0:07
cameras tonight as he was being led away
0:09
with other prisoners to jail he had
0:11
shown no emotion when the jury sentenced
0:12
him to death after little more than an
0:14
hour and a half of deliberations
0:16
[Applause]
0:17
that was a news report from way back in
0:20
1991
0:23
and
0:25
it's the story of many people we know
0:26
that come that grow up in our community
0:28
that grow up in our environment people
0:30
were being falsely accused wrongfully
0:32
convicted of crimes that they did not
0:34
commit
0:35
and perhaps have to be they didn't have
0:37
the resources to properly fight 100 for
0:40
their freedom right you know and then
0:42
also there's a justice system that needs
0:44
a makeover it needs definitely needs
0:47
reform and has ever since it was
0:50
uh from the first days of its inception
0:52
and so we see these stories play out
0:54
play out play out and to get to the
0:56
point where just become normalized to us
0:58
and we hear about folks who have spent
1:00
time in prison and they were wrongfully
1:02
convicted and no matter what just
1:04
because you're in prison there's always
1:05
some type of prejudice against you it's
1:08
almost like you got to prove you're
1:09
innocent right we're in this country
1:12
until proven guilty the voice you heard
1:15
on that clip is with us right now by the
1:17
grace of god jimmy dennis is with us
1:20
this man was convicted of the gruesome
1:22
murder of shidel ray williams
1:25
there was no physical evidence dna or
1:27
weapon
1:29
this man
1:30
was 21 years of age when he was
1:33
convicted a week before his daughter was
1:35
born oh my god
1:38
2017. after 25 years in prison he was
1:42
finally exonerated but the fight didn't
1:45
stop there
1:47
jimmy dennis is joining us right now
1:49
with the innocent project and he's not
1:51
alone but give him a big round of
1:52
applause citizens big round of applause
1:54
jimmy dennis is here come on jimmy
1:57
thank you for having me
1:58
tracy yeah i appreciate you all having
2:00
me we're happy to have you here
2:02
dennis is here yo
2:04
what the [ __ ] and glowing and tell me
2:07
god ain't real he said when he walked in
2:08
he said this was a bucket list this was
2:10
a checklist thing i i was up and so
2:13
amen
2:14
how about from death row to the front
2:16
row from the death row
2:19
it's a complete pleasure to meet all of
2:21
y'all yeah i mean like i said when i was
2:23
on death row for 25.5 years this was on
2:27
the checklist i was watching every
2:29
single thing he was doing man and i was
2:30
proud of you and i'm happy to sit here
2:32
right now and tell you that i was proud
2:34
of you all the moves you made right
2:36
you're getting into the radio
2:37
broadcasting hall of fame i seen you you
2:40
saw me
2:41
baby
2:42
i seen you listen to me
2:44
listen to me i root for my people
2:47
so when every single person climbs a
2:49
ladder
2:50
you don't know it but i'm cheering you
2:52
on hey man i'm rocking with y'all like
2:54
that y'all been doing this since 2011.
2:56
yes it's an honor to be here and when i
2:58
say i had a list i had a list
3:01
you was on the list jason was on the
3:03
list yeah i mean i got a list you got a
3:05
list and you've been checking off that
3:07
list and i'm checking off the
3:09
dope that list believe me i'll tell you
3:11
yes jason flom is here this guy is an
3:14
angel walker he don't even know it he
3:16
won't call himself that he just saw
3:17
things that needed to be done and got to
3:19
it heather you see that blazer he really
3:21
from the music business that's what we
3:23
personally see the glasses i recognize
3:25
the specs
3:26
that's that's the true sign that's a
3:27
music exact blazer that he has on you
3:30
know and
3:31
this man had his pla lava records
3:33
platform many people like kid rock katy
3:35
perry max box 20.
3:38
okay um lord a lot of artists you work
3:40
with those are just a few of the
3:41
successful ones that he's worked with
3:43
but at some point in his life he decided
3:45
to dedicate and commit his life to
3:48
stories like this one jimmy dennis
3:50
people who are wrongfully convicted he
3:52
he created a podcast wrong wrongful
3:55
conviction podcast let me see that you
3:57
see the t-shirt right there wrong
3:59
conviction podcast and in this podcast
4:01
it's probably one of the most powerful
4:03
podcasts you're ever going to tune into
4:06
because you see real life stories you
4:08
hear true voices of people who are
4:10
typically voiceless and when they do
4:12
speak people put
4:13
put stigma on them they don't hear them
4:15
all the way through his podcast has
4:17
allowed a lot of stories to be told
4:20
between the work that they've all done
4:22
with wrongful conviction in the innocent
4:24
project over 200 different folks they
4:27
help get out of jail right yep um that's
4:30
equates to about 3 600 hours of jail
4:33
time years
4:35
we were just at the innocence network
4:36
conference in phoenix
4:39
oh yeah so last weekend was at the
4:40
innocence network conference in phoenix
4:42
arizona in one building we had people
4:45
who served a total of six thousand and
4:47
thirty years of time for crimes they
4:50
didn't commit a lot of them were serving
4:51
time for crimes that didn't even happen
4:52
but that's another story
4:54
six thousand and thirty years imagine
4:56
six thousand and thirty minutes yes in
4:58
one of these cells where jimmy was at or
5:00
where any of these people had it's
5:01
incredible and the most incredible thing
5:03
to me is the people themselves or are
5:05
the people themselves the ones the jimmy
5:07
dennis he's you know he's not the only
5:09
one but he's he's a special dude but
5:12
every single one of these people that
5:14
has been to hell and back and come out
5:16
carrying buckets of water for the ones
5:17
they left behind wow i i'm here to serve
5:20
them that's my calling i'm not a
5:22
religious guy but that's my calling and
5:23
so i'm lucky i found it and i'm lucky
5:25
like i said to one of the guys jimmy
5:27
gardner when we were there i said jimmy
5:29
i'm the luckiest guy i get to be a
5:30
member of a club that has the best
5:32
members in the world and i didn't have
5:33
to go through the initiation
5:35
yeah you didn't definitely jason flaunt
5:37
man get that man a round of applause
5:40
indeed
5:41
named music visionary of the year had to
5:43
be i got a list of accolades this man
5:46
okay music visionary of the year in 2000
5:49
he uh received a torture liberty award
5:50
from the american civil liberties union
5:52
in 1999 2005 jason received the tj
5:55
martell foundation and humanitarian
5:57
award in 2008 jason was honored as a
5:59
partner in the pursuit of justice by the
6:01
bronx defenders and was awarded with the
6:03
city of hope's ambassador award come on
6:05
2014 he's the recipient of the spirit of
6:07
life award by russell simmons rush
6:09
philanthropic arts foundation in 2014
6:12
2018 jason received the frederick
6:15
douglass human rights award from the
6:16
southern center for human rights the
6:19
sentinel of freedom award from the
6:21
foundation of criminal justice and the
6:22
after now service award from the nyu
6:25
prison education program
6:27
the list goes on man the list goes on
6:29
and i want to give you your flowers
6:31
jason
6:36
jason and i jimmy and then i want to
6:38
talk about your story first of all
6:39
lorenzo
6:41
says hi fellas
6:44
affectionately known as zoe in the
6:47
but lorenzo so lorenzo is when y'all
6:51
hear me talking about the restaurant i
6:52
go to all the time the role yes yes
6:56
in harlem
6:58
and i met lorenzo and a lot of the
6:59
fellas there who were wrongfully
7:01
convicted of crimes they did not commit
7:03
crimes that didn't happen and these
7:05
gentlemen have started a business up in
7:06
harlem and i go to patronize that
7:09
business every all the time i took one
7:11
of our highest exact steve blatter to
7:13
the role made him sit in harlem and have
7:15
some did you
7:17
that's right steve blatter was like he
7:19
had a good time zoe and then showed him
7:21
a good time so i wanted to say lorenzo
7:23
wanted to say hi to both of you guys
7:25
lorenzo johnson shout out to lorenzo
7:26
johnson that's my man right there we had
7:28
a wonderful time last night and at the
7:30
harlem road yeah everybody should go
7:33
down to the harlem road it's a wonderful
7:35
restaurant the aviance was crazy i loved
7:37
it yeah man i was supposed to come last
7:39
night i fell asleep
7:42
anyway i want to talk about your story
7:44
in citizens we open up the phone lines
7:45
888 742-3345
7:49
this this
7:50
what happened to you is a tragedy that
7:52
happens to a lot of folks in our
7:54
community
7:55
you know it's happened
7:56
since since folks were brought over to
7:58
this country yes right and you said
8:01
something really interesting um back in
8:03
the early 90s when you were convicted of
8:05
this crime this murder that you did not
8:07
commit you said they stole you yes away
8:10
from your family yes break that down
8:13
so
8:14
you know
8:15
they stole me away from my family and
8:17
friends so what they said did was
8:19
any black man to do
8:21
that's exactly what they did so let me
8:23
break down the physical description they
8:25
said the physical description of the
8:26
perpetrator was dark-skinned complexion
8:29
like wesley snipes or miles davis right
8:32
you sit before me you see on brown skin
8:34
they said the person was 5 10 to 10 foot
8:36
tall i'm 5'4 they said the person was
8:39
180 to 200 pounds i weighed a diminutive
8:44
125 pounds at the time
8:46
so any black man will do
8:48
that's what they did a body for a body a
8:51
body for a body so and the two police
8:53
detectives to scrimski in santiago has
8:57
since been arrested on august 13 2021
9:00
every single thing that i'm gonna tell
9:01
y'all today y'all gonna go google it's
9:04
factual
9:05
right we come up here uncut and raw this
9:07
is what i do
9:08
they've been uh indicted by a grand jury
9:11
for lying the only reason they wasn't
9:13
charged for more crimes is because the
9:15
statute of limitations ran out but the
9:17
same way we are eliminating the statute
9:20
of limitations for everything else we
9:22
need to do it for corrupt police
9:23
officers there you go they need to serve
9:25
the same time that i did 24 25.5 years
9:30
that destroyed my father when my father
9:32
found out that i was going to trial he
9:34
had a stroke he never recovered oh my
9:36
gosh my mom health deteriorated right
9:40
my daughters
9:42
they are a shell of themselves
9:45
right and when i say that i don't say
9:47
that lightly right they have went
9:50
through mental issues
9:52
right from what i've been through so
9:54
when i say they destroyed my family they
9:57
literally decimated my family and my
9:59
friends
10:00
right and i suffer from ptsd i'm in
10:03
therapy every week you know the scars
10:05
that i went through and you got to
10:06
understand
10:08
everybody in new york knows the kylie
10:10
browder story right
10:12
my story
10:13
is just like his
10:15
every single person in prison wanted me
10:17
dead i lost 30 percent of my hand when i
10:20
was in there from being attacked because
10:22
they thought you could you actually
10:24
killed this woman right right right
10:27
yeah so the guards and the prisoners
10:29
were all coming at me each and each and
10:32
every day it don't matter what prison i
10:33
went to i had to start all over and earn
10:35
my respect i wasn't taking it i'm
10:38
sitting here because i fought back
10:40
that's who i am but i lost 30 percent of
10:42
my hand teeth got knocked out of my
10:44
mouth you know what i'm saying to you i
10:45
got physical scars on me so i had to
10:47
survive all that
10:49
right to be sitting here with you today
10:51
i made it up in my mind and nothing was
10:53
going to stop me from getting back to my
10:55
mother and my two daughters and my
10:57
family and my friends
10:58
you never you did 25 years 25.5 years
11:02
25.5 years you never there was never a
11:05
breaking point in that duration of time
11:08
where you felt like man i can't do this
11:10
listen man when i first
11:12
got locked up right
11:15
there was a day i was going to commit
11:17
suicide and i was going to write
11:18
innocent on the wall and turn out the
11:21
lights and just go
11:22
right
11:24
but before that happened
11:25
this guard name mr welly walked up to me
11:28
and he said we gotta lock the block
11:29
there
11:31
and he looked at me and he said the dude
11:32
just killed himself
11:34
and then he looked at me and it was like
11:38
god was speaking to him through me and
11:39
he said no matter what hand you dealt in
11:42
life you got to play it out and i went
11:45
in the cell
11:46
i put the tile up to the window put my
11:49
face in the uh pillow and i cried
11:52
right
11:53
and i flushed the razor down toilet and
11:55
i didn't do it from that moment on i
11:57
conditioned my body and everything
11:59
to deal with the punishment that i was
12:02
taking in prison you know i mean you
12:04
know fighting wise because i i put on
12:06
another 25 pounds and i tried to bulk up
12:09
a little bit you know and then i went
12:11
and i just started devouring and
12:14
studying the law
12:15
every every single cell i was in i
12:18
turned it into a library i didn't do
12:19
nothing they told me do i eat when they
12:21
told me to eat i i sleep when they told
12:24
me to sleep i didn't do none of that
12:26
right i shut all that down i wasn't
12:28
going to shower wasn't going library
12:30
wasn't going to yard right
12:32
then the guard came up to me he's like
12:34
why you ain't doing why you ain't going
12:35
to y'all doing stuff like you used to i
12:37
said i don't belong here you're not
12:38
gonna treat me like you you know i
12:39
belong here
12:40
right
12:42
the guard
12:43
went downstairs he said i'm gonna let
12:44
you get a shower so he popped a cell and
12:46
he let me out to the shower by myself
12:48
and none of the prisoners
12:50
said anything you know this is a
12:52
situation where people would bark at but
12:54
everybody knew i was innocent that's why
12:56
when you read the august 21st 2013 legal
12:59
opinion by the honorable judge brody one
13:01
of the most powerful judges in this uh
13:04
country that handled the nfl um cte and
13:07
for the uh people to get their benefits
13:09
the the first paragraph she wrote was
13:11
james a dennis was wrongfully convicted
13:13
for a crime that he did not commit that
13:15
paragraph meant the world to me
13:17
right but on that day when it came out i
13:21
thought about every single person that
13:23
had tried to kill me up in there and
13:25
then i thought about my family and
13:26
friends and how they felt and on that
13:29
date all the death row prisons was
13:31
kicking the door yelling and everything
13:33
because they was happy because everybody
13:35
knew they knew but no secret
13:37
don't forget jimmy survived two death
13:39
warrants right twice they came to his
13:40
cell and we talked about this on my
13:42
podcast wrongful conviction when we
13:43
recorded it several years ago but twice
13:46
they asked him where he wanted his body
13:48
to be taken when they after they killed
13:49
him you know so he had to survive that
13:51
and let us also not forget there's
13:53
another guy i had on my show tony wright
13:55
and i'll never forget there was an
13:56
article about his case he also did 25
13:58
years in philadelphia wrongfully
14:00
convicted around the same time as jimmy
14:02
and in this article there was a poll
14:03
quote that said in the 90s in
14:05
philadelphia
14:07
in the 90s a black man had a better
14:09
chance of getting justice in
14:10
philadelphia mississippi than they did
14:11
in philadelphia pennsylvania and that's
14:13
and that's true it will always stick
14:15
with it and that's true and in that same
14:17
anthony wright article they had me in
14:19
there
14:20
uh mention me in that article you know
14:22
and i've since been in rolling stone
14:25
twice as the featured story right
14:27
but this criminal justice system is
14:31
tragically broken even what the uh city
14:33
of philadelphia is still doing to me now
14:36
is a tragedy well speak to that so
14:39
you're trying to be uh you're suing them
14:41
right
14:42
yeah i started suing them for wrongful
14:45
conviction in 2017
14:47
and um on november 23rd
14:50
20 uh 2021
14:53
uh
14:54
the third circuit ruled the unanimous
14:56
decision
14:57
that uh detective scrimsky and santiago
15:01
did not have a constitutional right to
15:03
frame me i want y'all to i want the
15:05
people to understand the most ridiculous
15:07
argument right they said yes we framed
15:10
him but so what we should get immunity
15:13
right so we've been talking about
15:15
immunity in this country
15:17
right for several years dealing with
15:19
police shootings so on and so forth
15:21
right
15:23
i just proved that they don't have
15:25
immunity okay they have partial immunity
15:28
i have their hand in a cookie jar right
15:31
so that's the difference sometimes we
15:33
know that they uh murdered sandra bland
15:36
we know that they killed sean bell but
15:38
you have to be able to um prove these
15:40
things in court and articulate the
15:42
argument properly right every single
15:44
thing they did to me in terms of
15:47
destroying evidence to prove my
15:49
innocence destroying clothes lying about
15:51
it dna evidence so and so forth we had
15:54
their hand in the cookie jar right and
15:56
so that's why when you punch the uh
15:59
legal opinion up it says um that is the
16:01
legal standard in the country now right
16:04
because that's the legal standard in the
16:06
country that says president in the
16:07
right-hand corner as soon as you punch
16:09
it up
16:10
we got jason flahm is here jimmy dennis
16:12
is here jason give out your uh give out
16:14
your
16:15
your socials so people want to follow
16:16
you and follow the podcast you do
16:19
the podcast is wrong for conviction it's
16:20
available on apple spotify anywhere you
16:23
listen to your podcast anywhere yeah so
16:25
just just go to pandora
16:27
that's our company man everywhere yeah
16:29
yeah yeah
16:30
exactly yes uh
16:32
in fact we're with stitcher so we're
16:33
right in the building you know so
16:38
[Laughter]
16:48
i post about this stuff all the time
16:50
because it's such a huge part of my life
16:51
and my socials are at it's jason flom
16:54
i-t-s jason j-s-o-n-f-l-o-m
16:57
instagram and tick-tock and uh yeah
16:59
there was another jason flom who got my
17:01
handle before i didn't i
17:06
you're the reason why people keep
17:07
sending me their music
17:09
all right whatever
17:10
i'm like thanks for teaching school
17:11
buddy nice to meet you so um yeah so
17:14
that's my my alter ego down there but
17:15
yeah it's jason flom its jason flom is
17:17
my socials and the podcast is wrongful
17:20
conviction please listen because there's
17:23
things on there you need to hear you
17:25
need to know
17:26
we're there to help pull people out that
17:29
are in the system and i'm proud to say
17:31
that the podcast has played an important
17:33
role in helping to free a number of
17:35
people ronnie long lamont mcintyre
17:37
vincent simmons who came home two months
17:39
ago after 44 years and nine months she
17:42
went to prison in 1977 may 23rd
17:45
wrongfully convicted a crime that never
17:47
happened they lied on him is all that
17:49
happened so he just came home and his
17:52
lawyer you know i spoke to him as soon
17:54
as he came out facetime with him he's
17:55
having his first meal free and you know
17:57
his lawyer gave a lot of credit to the
17:59
podcast and the work that we do because
18:01
we get under the hood and i'm really
18:03
really proud to say that it's also
18:04
inspired politicians in washington state
18:06
indiana and illinois to propose
18:09
legislation that's been signed into law
18:10
to make the system fairer and better for
18:13
everyone so you know but on the podcast
18:16
i'm telling people and i would love to
18:17
tell your audience right now important
18:19
things and even on my tech talk that you
18:21
need to know like don't wave your
18:22
miranda rights never never never wave
18:24
your miranda rights if you get picked up
18:26
and brought into the police station for
18:27
any reason
18:29
shut the [ __ ] up don't say anything you
18:31
say your name i'm swaying i want a
18:33
lawyer that's it right and um and then
18:36
stop talking until your lawyer gets
18:37
there because nothing you can say can
18:39
help you and everything you say can hurt
18:41
you so
18:42
and innocent people wave their miranda
18:43
rights all the time they wave their
18:45
rights so never wave your miranda wife
18:47
right
18:48
and also
18:50
if you tell the truth all they're going
18:52
to do is go out
18:53
you know and try to bury the truth
18:55
because that's what detective described
18:56
in santiago did to me so what jason is
18:59
saying is paramount
19:01
okay jimmy dennis do you have social
19:04
yeah uh everybody can follow me on jimmy
19:06
dennis music everybody can follow jimmy
19:08
dennis uh facebook group and everybody
19:10
can follow me on my website
19:12
jimmydennis.net
19:14
uh jimmydennismusic.net
19:16
yeah i'm gonna let um
19:18
the rest of the team jump in
19:20
now that you're free
19:22
because i hear your story and i love
19:24
hearing you tell a story what is your
19:25
purpose in life now
19:27
my purpose listen
19:29
one of the things that was paramount to
19:31
me
19:32
was that
19:34
most innocent people come home
19:36
and they don't live out their dreams
19:38
they have to change the course of that
19:41
of the direction that they went into so
19:44
what i wanted to be
19:46
when i was a
19:47
kid and what was going on with me before
19:49
i was stolen away was people was
19:51
interested in me musically so i came
19:54
home and i wanted to change the
19:55
narrative so
19:56
um being an
19:58
r b artist
19:59
is my thing so when you google me you
20:02
know i mean i change the narrative when
20:04
you look me up it says r b artists it
20:06
does
20:08
that's the first thing you see people
20:10
can say that i've been in the top
20:11
publications rolling stone philadelphia
20:14
magazines feature story led bible and
20:16
all these other publications and my
20:18
music is getting respected i don't have
20:20
a hit record yet but hey listen i'm
20:22
doing my thing and i'm gonna keep doing
20:24
my thing and i also going to champion um
20:27
other innocent people with my man jason
20:29
and we've done work together and um i've
20:32
helped get an innocent man off of death
20:34
row in 2019 i was very proud of that wow
20:37
uh i went on jason's show and i spoke up
20:40
about an innocent man he had nobody's
20:42
speaking up for him and his family and
20:44
willie vc came home in 2019 and um he
20:48
you know
20:49
doing well and his family doing well and
20:51
then i um helped get his brother out of
20:54
jail for a parole violation so i'm not
20:57
playing with him you're not playing
20:59
you ever have one of your songs played
21:01
on radio no i have not oh man well hey
21:04
listen man let's make the dreams come
21:06
true
21:13
let's do it we got we got uh two songs
21:16
what you got al tom
21:19
which one you want to hear oh you know
21:20
went and did it oh you went all you've
21:23
done we went and did it oh you went and
21:25
did it that was my
21:26
that is my old to
21:29
beautiful black women and women
21:30
everywhere there you go this is jimmy
21:33
dennis first time heard on the radio
21:35
right here on sway in the morning would
21:37
have to be tracy g
21:38
oh wow we'll take your calls i did not
21:40
expect 888
21:43
four 742-3345
21:44
baby
21:49
girl you done did it now
21:51
you don't open the door to love
21:54
sway in the morning shave four five
21:57
jimmy dennis
21:59
yeah
22:00
i like that bro appreciate that man i'm
22:02
not even asking you i would have told
22:03
you it was wack i don't care 25 years
22:08
25.5 i'll steal it
22:14
look i'm gonna take a couple quick calls
22:17
we got greg on the line greg i gotta
22:19
take your call rise and shine how you
22:21
doing gee yo
22:24
great girl greg you there
22:27
yeah go for it man say what up to jimmy
22:29
and jason
22:31
jimmy and jason what's going on how you
22:33
doing brother great good to meet you
22:36
hey jimmy you know this is
22:39
it's my brother
22:43
i love you bro
22:45
it's my actual brother greg yeah
22:47
i gotta go quick cause i gotta run into
22:49
a meeting so i just wanna say you know i
22:52
gotta i gotta thank jimmy you know jimmy
22:54
said something earlier
22:56
you know about you know he stayed around
22:58
for his family
23:00
and and you know that that's that's
23:01
powerful
23:03
considering everything he went through
23:05
i mean that that thing you know the day
23:08
that jimmy got locked up
23:10
is a day that that you know
23:12
a lot of us will never forget you know
23:14
you know to get that phone call early in
23:16
the morning
23:17
and you know i'm about to get on the bus
23:19
and go to a game
23:21
and i get that phone call and my whole
23:23
head was going from there
23:25
and the other part was you know
23:27
i was at the house when the cops came
23:29
and picked up whatever they said they
23:31
took out the house
23:32
and everything they said they took out
23:34
of the house was it was a lie
23:36
and and you know the funny thing about
23:38
it is when we got to court the stuff all
23:40
of a sudden got missing out of the
23:42
evidence room it disappeared
23:45
and it disappeared and then they lied
23:46
about it in 2005.
23:49
yeah the only time something gets
23:50
disappears out of evidence room if the
23:52
cops want to disappear
23:53
you know you see dope get missing out of
23:55
there they want that to disagree because
23:56
they go use that for themselves
23:58
but for those things in order to convict
24:00
him they had to make a stick
24:03
and you know tearing apart a family you
24:06
know a black family you know that you
24:08
know
24:09
that's what a lot of us feel the system
24:12
is geared to do
24:13
is tear down black families
24:16
it it it's sad to say
24:19
but you know somebody made a comment
24:20
earlier about people not having the
24:22
resources to fight for they like yeah
24:25
damn if you ain't got the resource of
24:26
five feet of life in this world
24:29
you spent 25 years 25.5 years on death
24:32
row
24:34
i say i'm sorry and then you know i look
24:36
at you know philadelphia
24:39
grew up in philly you know philly philly
24:41
was home
24:42
you know but when i look at what
24:45
some of the people of philadelphia tried
24:47
to do to my family
24:50
you know
24:51
it it's a hurt piece yeah it is i know
24:54
mayor kenny i've known mayor kenny for
24:56
for for years
24:58
you know i purposely not reached out to
25:00
mayor kenny
25:01
on this situation for my own reasons
25:05
you know compulsion is [ __ ] and
25:07
everybody know [ __ ] but right now
25:09
but right now mayor kenny and the city
25:11
attorney is the very reason that my
25:13
family is still victims
25:16
of what's going on because we haven't
25:18
received a settlement from the city
25:20
after everything i haven't been through
25:22
it's mayor kenny and the city attorney
25:24
and who's the city attorney i wish i
25:25
knew the city attorney name but if
25:27
somebody could look up the city attorney
25:28
name of philadelphia that's who it is
25:31
that's who we're fighting against so
25:33
they are complicit in the act of
25:35
corruption now this is what this is the
25:37
only thing going on the court done said
25:40
that detective
25:42
santiago and roger king framed me the
25:45
whole world know it all you got to do is
25:47
read these three legal opinions and you
25:50
see exactly what was done to me step by
25:53
step and what my brother is speaking to
25:55
um
25:56
the clothes they lied about um that they
25:59
said they took from the house the
26:00
clothes disappeared so in 2005 the uh
26:03
detective description got on the witness
26:05
stand
26:06
they asked him
26:08
well what happened to the clothes he
26:10
says out his mouth the cleaners through
26:12
them out
26:13
y'all tell me right now
26:15
what
26:16
what evidence room in america do
26:19
cleaners go to whether it's the fbi or
26:23
police stations
26:25
so every single person in the courtroom
26:28
gas
26:29
then the same detective took the
26:31
homicide binder right and it has never
26:34
been seen again and when they asked him
26:36
on the witness stand in 2005 what
26:38
happened to the homicide binder with all
26:40
the evidence of other people confessing
26:42
to the crime and so on and so forth he
26:44
said i plead the fifth because we got
26:46
his giant hancock on it this is what i'm
26:48
telling y'all about this is what i'm
26:50
telling y'all about me having a hand in
26:52
a cookie jar and what just went down
26:55
with them not having immunity which
26:57
helps every single person in this
26:59
country now
27:01
do these transformative laws uh that the
27:04
innocent project has helped change
27:07
do they confront the corruption that we
27:09
find by these public officials like the
27:11
das like the judges like any of the
27:13
police officers who were complicit in
27:16
this crime
27:17
well that's
27:18
that's a great question sway and it's an
27:20
uphill uh battle you know um the
27:23
strangely enough in this country
27:25
prosecutors have almost absolute
27:27
immunity probably the only profession we
27:29
can think of where you can do anything
27:32
right you can put an innocent guy in
27:33
death row even have him executed and
27:35
even if it's proven that you knew he was
27:37
innocent before you did it you still
27:39
won't face
27:40
it's almost it's incredibly unlikely
27:42
that you'll face any sanctions
27:44
whatsoever not to mention ever looking
27:47
at jail time or anything else and
27:48
there's a reverse incentive among these
27:50
official officials right because they're
27:52
trying to they're trying to check boxes
27:54
they're trying to they're trying to run
27:55
up the score maybe they want to move up
27:57
to a different position that's what i
27:58
was that that that's what was going to
28:01
be my question because a good friend of
28:03
mine and co-worker cynthia davis can't
28:05
make this up two weeks ago
28:07
has an issue like this with her brother
28:09
and the way she was describing an
28:11
innocent man i kept thinking to myself
28:14
are these people trying to move up it's
28:15
just about score i have the most
28:17
convictions i've prosecuted the most
28:19
this judge is trying to be this and and
28:21
nobody says anything sure
28:23
i'm sorry let me give you a perfect
28:25
example all right the current episode we
28:27
just we did a re-release today on
28:28
melissa lucio melissa lucio will be
28:30
executed in 13 days by the state of
28:32
texas for a time that never happened
28:34
right now her case is a perfect example
28:37
the d.a who prosecuted her prosecuted
28:39
her just because he was running for
28:40
re-election and he had real problems
28:42
right batman is serving 13 years in
28:44
federal prison right now for selling
28:46
verdicts for bribing people for taking
28:49
bribes all kinds i mean he was mixed up
28:51
what's his name do you know his name uh
28:53
look it up get it because
28:56
cynthia
28:57
we got cynthia the woman she's talking
28:58
about is online now but i want to say
29:00
the names we never hear the names of
29:02
these corrupted yeah
29:04
i say names let's find it before the
29:05
show is over melissa's child
29:07
melissa lucio is the name you can go on
29:09
my instagram
29:11
how to find out more about or listen to
29:12
the podcast better yet it's wrongful
29:14
conviction just came out today and get
29:16
involved because we have a chance to
29:18
save this woman's life her child
29:20
tragically died after a fall down the
29:22
stairs and this d.a saw an opportunity
29:24
to make points on a woman who had no
29:27
resources to defend herself the hispanic
29:29
woman her interrogation you can see the
29:31
interrogation is brutal she was up all
29:33
night long they kept her up she didn't
29:35
really she she didn't know what to say
29:38
she was trapped like like you were yeah
29:40
and like so many people are that's why
29:42
in that interrogation room i'm begging
29:44
you don't say anything and one more
29:46
thing i have to say if you end up on a
29:47
jury that's the reason i did the podcast
29:49
right i want to educate jurors so that
29:52
when somebody any of us is going to get
29:54
a jury do you know anyone who's
29:55
listening to my voice right now whether
29:56
you're going to get a journey and you
29:57
may end up on a criminal trial and there
29:59
may be a jimmy dennis or melissa lucio
30:01
sitting in front of you and they're
30:02
going to be a bunch of people up there
30:04
telling stories that may or may not be
30:06
true
30:07
and we're supposed to be innocent until
30:09
proven guilty but that's not the way it
30:11
works and our natural instinct is to
30:13
believe these officials these you know
30:15
people they put up their their i'm a
30:17
forensic this or that
30:19
whatever the hell they are or the any of
30:20
other public officials that are up there
30:22
we want to believe we grow up believing
30:24
that they're there to to serve and
30:25
protect us right
30:27
and to do right and and tell the truth
30:29
and let us not forget but but so when
30:30
people do get on juries i hope that
30:33
they'll remember the things that they
30:34
heard on the wrongful conviction podcast
30:36
and and they'll they they will remember
30:38
that that you have to prove guilt beyond
30:41
a reasonable doubt
30:43
you have to do that but they don't and
30:45
people just convict because they're
30:47
tired
30:48
yeah
30:50
they cave you know just like somebody
30:52
might cave and let one more thing one
30:54
more point i want to make
30:56
29
30:58
of the people that have been proven
30:59
innocent with dna the hundreds and
31:01
hundreds of people have been proven
31:02
innocent with dna across the country 29
31:05
of them confessed to the crime they
31:06
didn't commit right and that's what they
31:08
did they basically extracted a
31:09
confession that didn't even make any
31:11
sense from melissa right she never
31:13
admitted that she said she pushed a kid
31:15
down the stairs it's
31:16
awful they got her to spank a doll in
31:19
the thing she was she was she had just
31:21
endured the worst thing a parent can go
31:23
through she lost her child
31:25
a mom of all things and they you know
31:28
she had she was crazy that story is um
31:30
we got cynthia
31:32
my co-worker she's an educator um she
31:34
does a teacher tuesdays with me on
31:36
another show here at siriusxm and her
31:38
brother is dealing with this exact issue
31:41
so i was hoping that she would call in
31:43
and she's here now cynthia say hi to
31:45
jason and i'm jimmy how are you
31:47
i'm doing great so thank you sway and
31:50
heather um to mr dennis and mr form i
31:53
appreciate um you sharing your
31:55
information and giving me time to talk
31:58
about my brother his name is dewitt
31:59
mcdonald jr
32:01
and one of the things that heather
32:03
allowed me to share
32:05
on the heather b live show was that on
32:07
march 29th
32:09
just last month
32:11
my brother had received an immediate
32:13
release
32:14
from the judge in sandusky ohio and the
32:18
prosecutor and the assistant attorney
32:20
general who he had connected with him
32:24
put a stay they stopped the paperwork
32:26
from going through he's been serving 27
32:29
years as of june it'll be 27 years
32:32
in a
32:33
richland correctional institution in
32:35
ohio and
32:38
he was wrongfully convicted and actually
32:40
the two men who are now out one was out
32:43
20 years ago one was out two years ago
32:45
they both say he was not there he was
32:47
not involved but because of an issue
32:50
um
32:51
with the
32:52
prosecutor who has been in sandusky ohio
32:55
for years
32:56
dealings with my brother
32:59
he got wrapped up in this so they both
33:01
had incidents where they were
33:02
high-stakes gambling and women and drugs
33:05
and the whole thing but
33:07
this prosecutor put the wit in a
33:09
situation
33:10
that caused him to serve 27 years and
33:13
still be in prison and then when it came
33:14
to the day that
33:16
um he was able to be immediate release
33:19
they interrupted the paperwork so that
33:21
he couldn't go through the ohio bureau
33:23
of computation until they got a
33:26
emergency stay to keep them in they
33:28
didn't have a reason for doing it but
33:29
because of a
33:31
advance you know just a history of
33:35
issues prior to the 27 years they
33:38
continue to keep a stay and so
33:41
we're still working to try to get him
33:42
released um like i said he's he's
33:46
innocent but we are having such a
33:48
difficult time and we did at one point
33:51
in time and we still do have connections
33:53
with um innocent projects in cincinnati
33:56
ohio but it's been some time since we've
33:57
been able to
33:59
get anything new to get them out and
34:01
it's just been
34:02
awful it's been horrible um and so if
34:06
there's any way any connections of
34:08
trying to figure out how we can get him
34:09
released and and like heather has said
34:11
we've we thought that if a judge said
34:14
immediate release and the reason why the
34:15
immediate release came is because in
34:17
2015 they
34:20
changed his records as far as his
34:22
sentencing time so he had 20 years to
34:24
life and then it ended up somehow
34:26
changing to 36 years to life and so when
34:29
the judge came and said no it should
34:31
have been 20 years to life the
34:33
prosecutor
34:34
said no we reject that and so they sent
34:37
her to the sixth circuit court the sixth
34:39
circuit said yes it should have been 20
34:41
years we're not going to hear this and
34:43
then they moved in took it to the
34:44
supreme court and the supreme court said
34:47
we're not going to hear this it should
34:48
have been 20 years that's what's on the
34:50
initial trial docket but so he wasn't
34:53
able to get a parole hearing they
34:56
changed his sentence date and just
34:58
continue to interrupt so that he's not
35:00
getting his freedom and for whatever
35:02
reason when it came to immediate release
35:04
they blocked it and so now they're in um
35:06
they took it to another court saying
35:08
that they don't want to hear what this
35:10
judge has to say what do you what are
35:11
you what are you not i'm sorry cynthia i
35:13
didn't mean to cut you off i'm just
35:15
looking at the expressions as you tell
35:17
this story what are your thoughts when
35:18
you hear her story my thoughts is that
35:21
i'm sorry for what a family is going
35:22
through and this speaks to corruption
35:25
this speaks to corruption simple and
35:27
plain and this is what's wrong with the
35:29
system and this is why so many people
35:31
need to listen to wrongful conviction
35:33
but this is why so many people need to
35:35
get involved don't sit back and think
35:37
that you can't help you could do you
35:39
could sign a petition you could reach
35:41
out to heather b or
35:43
and a friend and you can get involved
35:45
and when you lift your voices up in
35:47
unison we are powerful people we are a
35:49
powerful group of people and if we all
35:51
lift our voices up and we call out
35:53
actually what they doing then we can
35:55
make a difference and we can make a
35:57
change and cynthia i want to say first
35:59
of all i'm terribly sorry for what you
36:01
and your family especially your
36:02
brother's going through um
36:04
you know every week when i do the
36:06
podcast i i think i've heard everything
36:08
you know and then i hear the next door
36:09
and i go jesus christ you know and then
36:11
i hear a story like yours and it's like
36:13
i mean
36:14
what if somebody came in from a foreign
36:16
country or from another planet and heard
36:18
this story they go what are you talking
36:19
about yeah the supreme court everybody
36:21
says he's supposed to go home how is he
36:23
not home but then i can't not shout out
36:25
i mean look i'm working on a number of
36:26
cases in ohio right now jon jones an
36:28
innocent man in prison on the shake and
36:30
baby case well shaken baby is nonsense
36:32
it's not real science
36:34
um and ohio is one of the most um
36:38
problematic states in the country
36:40
and you know just to give you an example
36:42
and i want to get back to your brother
36:43
but anthony oponovich was on death row
36:45
for over 30 years was proven innocent
36:47
with dna which the government said
36:49
didn't exist but then it was leaked and
36:52
the dna came out proved he was innocent
36:54
he was freed and 17 months later on a
36:56
technicality a 62 year man 62 year old
36:59
man on the lawn with his grandchildren a
37:02
huge
37:03
gang you know group of cops comes and
37:05
arrests him and puts him back on death
37:06
row because they found
37:08
a statute that says
37:10
you have to be the one to request your
37:12
dna no one else can request it for you
37:14
and so since the since they have come
37:16
from an outside source it's got some
37:18
evil people yeah so he's proven innocent
37:20
he's back on death row just because and
37:22
by the way they told him it didn't exist
37:24
how was he supposed to request dna that
37:26
didn't exist right i mean it's insane so
37:28
that's ohio for you that's just a
37:30
glaring example but wow we're working on
37:32
changing that law so that he can be free
37:34
but as far as your brother goes
37:36
if i'm understanding it correctly it's
37:38
the attorney general that's blocking
37:40
this in ohio
37:42
so what ended up happening was
37:44
so the prosecutor which is kevin baxter
37:47
in sandusky ohio um when the the judge
37:51
was saying and our the ministers were
37:54
there they were like okay we're gonna
37:55
get this man out of prison
37:58
and the prosecutor who we've had a
38:00
vendetta against said okay i won't block
38:02
this and so what he did was he called
38:06
his friend the assistant attorney
38:07
general
38:08
um
38:09
to
38:10
to stand in his place so he didn't have
38:12
to block it he got his friend to do it
38:13
oh wow wow all right so look so what i'm
38:16
gonna do i'm going to ask sway to
38:18
connect us or the team here to connect
38:20
us yeah offline you're going to have a
38:22
conversation later maybe and you know
38:24
we'll we'll talk about them and i do a
38:25
bunch of work in ohio i don't know
38:27
whether i can help but i can guarantee
38:29
you i'll try and um i think there's you
38:32
know pressure breaks pipes indeed
38:35
that's why we're here you know and and
38:37
this is a travesty and it needs to be
38:39
fixed your brother needs to come home
38:40
cynthia thank you for sharing your story
38:42
and then we'll make sure that jason and
38:44
heather connect and and hopefully we can
38:46
you know i say we because we're going to
38:48
be a part of it
38:52
yeah yes so okay cynthia
38:55
you in our prayers all right indeed
38:58
thank you i really appreciate it thank
38:59
you
39:00
love you too wow wow oh that's just what
39:03
she needed to hear too i want to try to
39:05
go because we only got like a few
39:06
minutes but what i've already decided is
39:07
we're going to do this morning
39:08
absolutely
39:10
all right so we got to have y'all come
39:11
back i wouldn't we might have to do it
39:13
once a month thing or something count me
39:15
in count me in i'm in yeah yeah we got
39:18
the r b we got we got to have them up we
39:20
got to perform too though yeah i got no
39:21
problem with that i don't know about
39:23
that heather we might have went too far
39:24
with that one
39:27
we got uh jay from pa on the line jay
39:29
rise and shine hey jay
39:32
uh good morning everybody good morning
39:35
hey this is crazy because this hits home
39:37
for me because i personally knew chidell
39:39
i used to go to school with her and we
39:40
used to catch the bus in the morning at
39:42
that train state at the um
39:44
same train station so
39:46
the crazy thing is how a story that big
39:49
that made national news how they could
39:51
mess up the case and bungle the case is
39:54
is mind-blowing to me
39:56
and allow the actual perpetrator to
39:57
remain free let's not forget every time
39:59
they if if a crime was committed violent
40:01
crime was committed right and they
40:03
arrested and prosecuted persecuted and
40:05
framed the person who didn't do it the
40:07
actual perpetrator remains free and we
40:09
know from experience that many times
40:11
more victims are left in that person's
40:13
wake and this is where the fraud comes
40:15
in that because you could see the
40:17
corrupt evil prosecutor by the name of
40:19
roger king roger king on tv
40:22
telling the citizens of philadelphia
40:24
he knows who the other two people are
40:26
right and he was coming to arrest him
40:28
and nobody else ever got arrested for
40:29
this crime period point blank let me ask
40:31
you this jay because shadell ray
40:33
williams doesn't have necessarily a
40:35
voice what can you tell us who was
40:37
tridel ray williams the way you knew her
40:39
who was she as a person
40:41
in school she went she went to arnie
40:43
with uh she was like
40:44
she was sterile as you would say back in
40:46
our day she was fun she loved everybody
40:48
she loved life you know she was fly as
40:51
hell you know i mean you could say that
40:53
she she was dressed to the t like every
40:55
everybody loved her everybody was cool
40:57
with her um we just had a good time and
40:59
the crazy thing is my sister wound up
41:01
getting robbed at gunpoint at the same
41:03
train station like six months later so
41:05
evidently the cops didn't do nothing
41:07
about the whole situation down there
41:10
wow wow and let me just say this
41:13
um
41:14
this is what the system did they
41:16
destroyed two families not one they
41:19
destroyed their family because they
41:20
compounded the lie right and now you see
41:25
30 years later
41:26
mayor kenny and the city attorney is
41:29
still going along and being complicit in
41:32
the act of corruption by trying to
41:34
protect these two police officers right
41:36
now they want to take a step back so
41:38
they fired the
41:40
um
41:41
attorneys that they had representing the
41:43
police and now they trying to shun them
41:44
to act like they don't do y'all still
41:47
are complicit in the act because every
41:49
single mayor
41:52
while these police officers were allowed
41:54
to continue because you got to remember
41:56
these are the same police officers that
41:58
did the same thing to anthony wright a
42:01
innocent man
42:02
right and they did it to uh chester
42:04
holmen right and so this is the city of
42:07
philadelphia i got innocent dudes that i
42:09
advocate for right now abdul hardy uh
42:13
ralph stokes anthony reed and anthony
42:15
reid has a
42:17
book out a poetry book out uh right now
42:21
um that i'm i'm i'm gonna put you in
42:23
that way right yeah yeah so you know
42:26
this is philadelphia philadelphia is
42:28
conro is corrupt right seth williams the
42:32
very prosecutor that uh presided over
42:35
this case after roger king in them uh i
42:39
came home may 13 2017. seth williams
42:43
went to prison six months later
42:45
for corruption for corruption the d.a
42:47
for corruption right this is real life
42:50
stuff that we're talking about the
42:51
saints
42:53
this is this is real life every single
42:55
thing that i say just like the august
42:57
23rd
42:59
2016 legal opinion that is the legal
43:01
standard in this country so nine times
43:03
out of ten when y'all see innocent
43:05
people coming home they they are coming
43:07
home because they filed the james a
43:09
dennis case dealing with innocence and
43:11
dealing with what you call a brady
43:13
violation meaning that you know
43:16
everything that the police and the d.a
43:18
have they supposed to turn over you
43:20
can't just pick willy nilly what you
43:22
want to give and so on and so forth you
43:24
got to turn over so i fixed that so when
43:27
you see innocent people coming home nine
43:29
times out of ten they're coming home
43:30
because your boy there you go jimmy
43:32
dennis man put in that work
43:34
um we unfortunately only have so much
43:37
time
43:38
right we got a few minutes left but i
43:39
want to thank
43:41
you jimmy dennis
43:42
your family yes your brother greg
43:46
um i want to thank you your daughters
43:49
right there mom
43:50
any and everybody that's around you
43:53
because not only are you doing the work
43:54
when you did the time they had to do the
43:56
time yeah yeah that that's
43:59
that's fact and if i can just real quick
44:01
i just want to say i have a wonderful
44:04
support system
44:05
i have a wonderful lady by the name of
44:07
corby she is my rock i have my daughters
44:10
fatima and kiara i have three childhood
44:13
friends that stand by me
44:16
uh and have been a support system for me
44:19
uh caskey
44:21
abdul my little brother that's here with
44:23
me now mark uh mark that's right and uh
44:26
gwen jackson um who who runs my music
44:29
and everything and uh daryl piano man uh
44:32
marshall michael boinkins richard wyler
44:35
lamar alexander all these people are
44:37
music people and they just as soon as i
44:40
wanted to come back home and jump into
44:41
it got back into it but but your support
44:43
system is important my sister hope my
44:46
mom uh everybody that's around me that
44:50
just shows me unconditional love and
44:52
support because coming home living with
44:54
ptsd is not easy because i still go
44:57
through nightmares every night i still
44:59
be fighting in my sleep uh reliving
45:02
being jumped in prison so on and so
45:04
forth and all that kind of stuff so um
45:06
i'm just
45:08
want to say thank you to all of them
45:10
yeah absolutely you were given days of
45:11
execution right yeah i i survived two
45:14
execution warrants where they actually
45:16
what you want to uh uh eating where you
45:18
want your last body [ __ ] and i would
45:20
never tell them because i wasn't going
45:21
for that because i never believed that i
45:23
was gonna die in there if you
45:25
i always believed and i told him that i
45:27
was gonna come home and i told him what
45:29
i was gonna accomplish and what i was
45:30
gonna do and i'm not done yet there you
45:32
go um let me think uh get them in a
45:34
round of applause
45:36
jmpa who knew shidell ray williams thank
45:39
you for sharing with us that story and
45:41
your relationship with her we appreciate
45:42
you bro yes and you're a citizen and uh
45:46
in the morning and just real quick i'd
45:48
just like to thank my uh manager
45:50
consuela colston uh-huh who's here with
45:52
me right now because wayla's height for
45:54
you when we played that song she started
45:55
doing the nae-nae
45:57
i just signed with her a little while
45:59
ago and we got some great things that we
46:01
doing soho muse and all like that but i
46:03
also want to thank jason because jason
46:05
is the type of person jason is the type
46:08
of person that ever since i come home
46:10
that's all he do is think about jimmy
46:12
straight up and down he will call me at
46:14
two three o'clock in the morning yo what
46:16
you think about this i got this for you
46:18
and that's how we hear today
46:20
because jason was like yo jimmy jimmy
46:22
jimmy the whole conversation jimmy jimmy
46:25
jimmy i thought we was in that movie
46:27
what was that movie with eddie murphy uh
46:30
jimmy jimmy jimmy jimmy jimmy jimmy you
46:32
know what
46:34
beyonce was in the cadillac record
46:37
damn no help in the room before the room
46:39
went flat jason
46:42
i met jason
46:43
officially um through chris redlitz who
46:46
is the founder of the last mile which
46:48
i'm a board member of and we go into
46:50
these prison systems and teach folks who
46:52
want to learn how to code alongside emc
46:54
hammer and others i'm trying to get
46:56
wallow on to be a part of it okay wallow
46:58
is incredible i love what he's doing
47:00
he's incredible incredible um
47:02
jason
47:03
thank you for this work yes
47:05
for our communities
47:07
um
47:09
there's no reward in it other than
47:11
hopefully you get people free you know
47:13
and the laws changed but you is he's not
47:15
been he's not making a dollar i'm sure
47:18
he sacrificed a lot of his own personal
47:20
resources
47:21
all the time i could tell in his
47:22
conversation you know um thank you thank
47:25
you and well for wrongful conviction the
47:27
podcast
47:29
is incredible
47:30
i sit and listen and go damn
47:33
it ain't easy taking in all this energy
47:36
all of these families all of these folks
47:38
that's going through this hardship this
47:39
is real life hardship that's it that's
47:41
what i told him last night yeah and
47:43
you've been
47:45
absorbing all of this energy so i want
47:47
to make sure you taking care of yourself
47:50
as you do it that you're eating healthy
47:52
that you're spiritually grounded you
47:54
know what i mean hopefully you got a
47:55
great support system too but now you got
47:58
family that's rocking with you you got
48:00
more resources so let's keep promoting
48:02
wrongful conviction with stitcher and
48:04
pandora
48:07
check out the jimmy dennis episode with
48:09
me and jason yeah jimmy was number 97.
48:12
uh we're up to 253 now and we're going
48:14
to keep telling these stories
48:16
unfortunately we're never going to run
48:17
out of these stories i want to shout out
48:18
just just some of the innocent people
48:21
that we've interviewed um i've been down
48:23
to death row in texas a couple times i'm
48:25
going back next uh i think back in june
48:28
but uh we interviewed rob will down
48:30
there an innocent man um in prison
48:32
um he's been on the show rodney reed i
48:35
was down there visiting him
48:37
rodney's a sensational guy i mean and
48:40
again he survived an execution date
48:41
already
48:42
um
48:43
there's so many innocent people in in
48:45
prisons i'm just going to talk about
48:46
death row tyrone knowling in ohio
48:49
innocent as could be i mean anybody here
48:52
had as much to do with that crime as he
48:53
did and it's just it's a travesty that
48:56
we keep these people kevin cooper in
48:58
california
48:59
a very famous case i mean there's
49:01
there's too many to talk about here i'm
49:03
glad that jimmy shouted out some of the
49:05
ones but we're going to keep fighting
49:07
for these people until they come home
49:09
because to forrest johnson down in um um
49:12
in the deep south there's an alabama
49:14
case insane a case where where
49:17
there's been
49:19
dozens of former prosecutors even former
49:21
ag's who have said that this guy ain't
49:23
the guy yeah
49:24
how about richard gossip and and julius
49:27
jones
49:28
jones yeah richard glossip i mean this
49:30
guy is so innocent it's it's it's
49:32
absolutely outrageous and he's been in
49:35
the execution chamber three times and
49:37
they got last minute stage three time
49:39
what the hell does that do to a person
49:41
and yet you can hear him on my podcast
49:43
and he'll he talk he talks about i won't
49:45
let them steal my joy i still dance in
49:47
my cell i sing i wrestle poetry i i do
49:51
you know i make paintings i mean his
49:53
spirit is intact after almost as long as
49:56
he's been in about 25 years and survived
49:57
three so we we got to abolish the death
50:00
penalty i can't leave that alone there's
50:02
no and if anybody i'm sure the people
50:03
listening are still in favor of the
50:04
death play i would just ask what
50:06
percentage of innocent people is it okay
50:08
to execute right now brian stevenson
50:10
says it's a great brian stevenson
50:12
a hero of mine and so many people you
50:14
know he says about one in 10 people are
50:17
innocent on death row i believe it could
50:19
be higher than that you look at the
50:20
state of florida where they've executed
50:22
99 people while 31 have been exonerated
50:24
from death row and we know they've
50:26
instituted we've executed innocent
50:27
people in florida like jesse tafaro and
50:29
others so look i could talk all day we
50:32
don't have all day all right but give us
50:33
your information too give out your
50:35
information so people want to find them
50:37
want to where can they find a podcast
50:39
how can they get down with the innocent
50:40
project yeah yeah please i would love to
50:42
um and first of all i want to shout you
50:44
out sway because
50:45
thank you for giving us this platform is
50:47
is so meaningful we can save lives this
50:50
way so my uh the podcast again is
50:52
wrongful conviction on stitcher and
50:55
sirius you can find it anywhere you
50:57
listen to podcasts apple spotify etc
50:59
it's everywhere and the uh for socials
51:02
it's it's jason flom its jason flom
51:05
instagram and tick tock and um you know
51:08
if you're out there if somebody's out
51:09
there has a loved one um or someone's
51:12
even listening uh who's incarcerated for
51:14
crime they didn't commit we're coming
51:16
for you there you go
51:20
[Music]
51:29
[Music]
51:48
you
#Arts & Entertainment