Up next in 10
How to apply for a student loan? Betsy Mayotte, a President of TISLA, gives expert advice on private and federal student loans. Learn more about interest rates, student loan forgiveness, how to choose a student loan, and whether your student loan impacts your taxes. Uncover the success story of Enyioma @TheSimpleFarmacist, a student who paid off her $130K student loan debt in a year.
00:00 - Introduction
00:44 - About Betsy Mayotte, a President of TISLA
01:46 - Student loans help
04:40 - Paying off student loans during Covid
06:00 - Student loans difference; student loan forgiveness
09:03 - Private vs. Federal student loans
12:01 - How student loans affect taxes
13:03 - Student loans data
14:37 - Student loan interest rates
16:26 - Federal student loans
19:50 - Types of student loan scams
23:12 - Expert advice on consumer's report
26:28 - Student loan tips from expert
32:59 - Story of paying $130K student loan in 1 year
33:37 - Conclusion
You may reach out to TISLA for a student loan advice: https://freestudentloanadvice.org/
Back to school reviews on PissedConsumer: https://www.pissedconsumer.com/search-companies/category/education.html
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0:00
My name is Betsy Mayotte and I am the president and founder of the nonprofit called the Institute
0:08
of Student Loan Advisors or TISLA. I founded TISLA almost five years ago now to ensure our
0:17
core mission, our reason for being is to ensure that all consumers have access to free, expert
0:24
neutral student loan advice and dispute resolution. So I've been in the student loan industry
0:32
it feels like since the earth cooled, but for over 20 years. And I spent most of my career
0:37
in a student loan compliance and advocacy position. So I have a lot of experience working
0:45
with borrowers and a deep understanding of the laws and regulations that are around student loans
0:52
which sort of put me in the lucky position to be able to help people with theirs
0:58
Who shall seek your service? What kind of circumstances would lead the person to seek your advice
1:07
Well, I get all kinds of people. I get recent grads. I get people that have had their loans for 30 years
1:14
I get people in default. I get people that are managing their loans well
1:18
but are just looking to make sure they're doing it the best way possible
1:23
I sort of categorize the people that reach out to us in two broad categories
1:29
There's the consumer who their Google foo is strong. They've read all the things
1:34
They've gone to all the websites. But the federal student loan programs in particular can be so confusing that they just want to make sure that the strategy that they've come up with is the right one
1:45
and they haven't missed anything, and they haven't misinterpreted anything. And then the other group of borrowers I get are the ones that are just completely overwhelmed
1:54
They're either overwhelmed by their debt, they're overwhelmed by their programs, they're intimidated just by the whole process, and they just want someone to tell them what to do
2:04
walk them through what the best strategy is for them. And then I get everything in between, and then we get a small percentage of borrowers that
2:12
feel like something was done incorrectly with their loans and they have an actual dispute
2:18
which we'll try to help them with. What was happening during COVID times with the student
2:25
loan? It was really unprecedented. I mentioned earlier that I've been doing this for decades
2:33
so I've been through my share of disasters. Katrina, 9-11, and I've seen Congress and
2:38
the Department of Education offer relief to student loan borrowers? Nothing like this
2:43
So essentially what happened is about 85% of federal student loan borrowers saw
2:49
no payments due since March 13th of 2020, even better, zero interest accruing during that period
2:57
of time. And then there was some added benefits of if you were pursuing a forgiveness program
3:04
such as public service loan forgiveness or forgiveness under the income-driven plans
3:08
that period of time actually counted as a payment. And even better, it reflects on your credit report
3:15
like you were paying. So even though no payments are due, no interest is due, for all intents and
3:21
purposes, it's a forbearance. Congress was very specific that it shouldn't reflect as a forbearance
3:28
on the borrower's credit report. It reflects as if they were in good standing and making payments
3:33
And anyone who was past due, not in default, default's a whole other animal, but delinquent on their loans as of March 13th, they're going to find themselves that they were brought current
3:45
So all those people were brought current, didn't have any payments due. So hopefully they could focus on other needs during the pandemic
3:54
So I assume that the corona time was actually very beneficial for anyone who had outstanding student loans at that time
4:03
For sure. I saw a lot of people where it was a lifesaver because they were financially
4:10
negatively financially impacted by the pandemic. And then even people that weren't negatively
4:14
impacted financially, I've seen a lot of people make some great progress on their loans because
4:20
they've been making interest-free payments. I hear from a lot of borrowers that are ecstatic
4:25
because they've taken huge chunks off the balance of their loan during this period. So
4:30
it's been really beneficial all around. The only concern I have is in my career
4:39
I've seen a lot of research projects. And one of them that really resonates with me
4:44
is that a big indicator of success for someone who has student loans or really any type of consumer
4:49
debt, it can come down to something as simple as just being in the habit of making the payment
4:54
So my only concern is we will have gone, when these waivers end at the end of September, 18 months of people that may have been in the habit of making the payment and now they're not
5:07
So I'm very curious and concerned what the fallout for that might be
5:13
I hope I'm worrying over nothing, but I'm trying to get people to prepare for the worst and hope for the best
5:19
Student loans is a totally separate animal from other loans in the United States
5:26
One of the items that I know about is that student loans cannot be forgiven through bankruptcy
5:35
Can you explain a little bit, give a little bit of insight, what's happening with the people that have financial trouble
5:44
Is that something you can share with us? So I'm hearing kind of two questions here and I'll address the bankruptcy one first. It's actually a myth that student loans are not dischargeable in bankruptcy. They are dischargeable in bankruptcy. With that said, it's very difficult
6:00
But I have seen consumers successfully discharge their loans in bankruptcy, especially private student loans
6:10
You need an attorney that knows student loans very well and you have to file what's called a hardship petition
6:17
Now, let me be clear. I'm not an attorney. This is not legal advice
6:22
So they have to file a separate hardship petition and most courts use what's called the Brunner test
6:28
I have it written up on our website under bankruptcy discharge. So it is difficult, but it's not impossible
6:36
Federal student loans are even harder because the three prongs of the Brunner test are that you made a good faith effort to pay
6:44
that if you were making payments, you wouldn't be able to have the minimal standard of living
6:49
so you wouldn't be able to feed and clothe yourself, and that things are unlikely to change in the future
6:54
And with all the lower payment options available on federal student loans, it can be really difficult to meet that second prong
7:02
So now, with all of that said, I do the chatter I hear from policymakers on both sides of the aisle is that there's an appetite perhaps for loosening up the bankruptcy discharge provisions to make it a little easier, again, especially for private loans in the fairly near future
7:21
So I will not be surprised if in the next three years or so we do see bankruptcy open up a little bit, again, especially for private loans
7:31
Federal loans are tough. What people have to remember with federal loans is that these debts technically belong to you and I, the U.S. taxpayer
7:42
So part of the Department of Education's role is to protect our federal fiscal interest
7:50
So that's why they have to be so mindful and so careful about loan forgiveness and dischargeability and that kind of thing, because that's coming out of our pocket
8:00
And I guess that speaks to the beginning of your question is sort of why are things the way they are
8:07
And that's part of it is because these loans aren't owned by Big Bank A or private entity B
8:14
They're owned by you and I. So anytime they forgive a debt they have to be mindful that it coming out of consumer pockets So there are federal student loans and there are private student loans
8:27
Federal student loan, as far as I remember, carries a lower interest rate than private
8:35
Is that another myth or is that a correct statement? It depends
8:41
So the interest rates on federal student loans vary depending on what year you took the loan out
8:47
And some of the older loans are variable. All the loans since 2006 have been fixed
8:53
Right now, right this second, if you have amazing credit and a cosigner with amazing credit, it's possible to get a private loan that might have a slightly lower interest rate than the current rates for federal student loans
9:08
Now, with that said, it's not all about the interest rate. Federal student loans have a plethora of protections and options for relief that you're not going to find on a private loan
9:22
I almost never recommend a private loan just because I've seen too many people that have private loans and they run into financial difficulty and there aren't any options for them
9:34
and the interest still builds. They can't get a lower payment. It hurts their credit
9:39
They end up getting sued by the lender. I tend to be financially conservative
9:45
just to put that out there. But I've just seen too many people
9:49
where life takes a left turn on them and they're left with no options
9:52
So even if the interest rate is higher on the federal loan, I'll almost always recommend the federal loan
9:57
over the private for those reasons. So for those parents that are looking to send their kids
10:04
to school, you would recommend take as much as possible in federal student loans before going
10:10
to private student loans? I would. And I love that question because there's another sort of
10:17
myth out there that happens with parents in particular. So if they find that the loans that
10:24
the students can take out on their own is not enough, they often will look at co-signing a
10:29
private loan that the student takes out because they want the debt to be in the student's name
10:34
and they don't want to affect their own debt to income ratio. When in fact, so that's why they'll lean towards the private loan
10:40
versus the parent plus loan that would be in their name alone. The problem with that is that by co-signing on the private loan
10:47
that affects their debt to income ratio exactly the same way that parent plus loan would
10:54
So, and they're equally liable for that private loan. And then I go back to there generally aren't any lower payment options
11:01
or options for relief for the private loan. So if the student can't pay, once again, the parent's credit's affected and now there's no option
11:09
So again, that's why I generally, if they have to, if parents have to take money in their own name, they're almost always better at taking the parent plus loan rather than co-sending on the private
11:20
The person takes out the loan, either private or federal. How does it affect the person's taxes during the repayment period
11:28
What's happening to the taxes of the borrower? So there is still a deduction up to certain income levels. It's tiered like most of the
11:40
deductions are up to certain income levels on the amount of interest you pay during the tax year
11:47
You can take that as a deduction if your income hasn't exceeded that level. Your best friend when
11:53
it comes to student loan deductions and credits, as well as other higher education credits
11:59
is what's called publication 970. So that's 970 at irs.gov. And that has all the gory details
12:09
of all the different deductions you can take for student loans and other higher education credits
12:15
But in general for student loans, it's you get a deduction for the interest that you pay over the year
12:22
Colleges cost really a lot of money. to late. Pricing is very high. I think, do you have any statistics as far as what is the percentage
12:34
of students that are actually taking student loan? Well, I can tell you the average student loan
12:40
debt on the national level is around 37,000 right now, which that's growing every year
12:46
I can tell you that there are 45 million student loan borrowers, if you include those with private
12:52
loans, state loans, and federal student loans. About 42, 43 million of those are federal student
12:59
loan holders. And we've now exceeded 1.5 trillion total in student loan debt, the vast majority of
13:06
that being federal student loans, which is more than the total credit card debt in the United
13:12
States. Another statistic that might interest you is that how old student loan borrowers are
13:21
I think a lot of people assume that student debt is still a young person's issue
13:27
But if you look at the data, half of all student loan borrowers are over the age of 30, a quarter are over 45, and the fastest growing population of consumers holding student loan debt are the over 65s
13:39
So we shouldn't just be concerned with people not postponing buying homes or having families
13:47
We need to be worried about people being able to save for retirement or being able to retire at all
13:55
Student loans, as far as I remember, and I was a college student once, and I did take student loans
14:03
From my memory, interest rate on the student loan was the lowest among other possible borrowing possibilities
14:10
So Congress is the one that sets the interest rate for student loans
14:13
So prior to 2006, the student loans had a variable interest rate that would adjust every July 1st
14:20
And depending on what type of loan it was, it could go as high as eight and a quarter
14:26
If the loan was taken in the 80s or early 90s, it could go as high as 14%
14:30
In the early 2000s, the rates got crazy low. Like I saw some under 2%
14:38
So what a lot of borrowers did at that point is they consolidated to lock in that crazy low rate
14:43
Then in 2006, Congress changed interest rates. And for a long time, Stafford loans were at 6.8%
14:51
So for the next like six years, if you took out a Stafford loan, it was at 6.8%
14:57
Plus loans were, I believe, 7.9%. So that went on for a long time
15:04
And then I want to say 2015, but don't quote me on the year for this part
15:09
but somewhere around there they made it so every year the rate would change so if you took a loan
15:16
out today your rate would be x but the loan you took out next year the rate would be y and it's
15:23
all based on the treasury bill auction at the end of may so you know interest rates don't stay static
15:30
for a whole year so it's possible that sometimes the federal student loan interest rates are lower
15:36
than what market rates are, but I've also seen it where they're higher
15:41
than what the market rates are. Federal student loans. Yes, you recommend it to most people
15:48
as a first option. What is the limit on taking out a federal student loan for a regular family
15:56
Is parents' income gets validated? How is federal student loan the maximum amount that the person can take out
16:04
How is it helpful? For loans that are issued to students, so the Stafford loans, they have an annual loan limit
16:12
and that's based on what year they are in school. So it starts out pretty low for a dependent
16:18
undergraduate student. It's $3,500. And then as they progress in school, that annual loan limit
16:24
gets higher. And then there's also an aggregate loan limit. So if they happen to stay in school
16:31
if it takes longer than four or five years for them to complete their undergraduate degree
16:36
then they going to bump up against that aggregate limit as well Now once you pay down some of that it opens that amount back up again For graduate students they get Stafford loans and that aggregate limit is I sorry the annual
16:53
limit is much higher and their aggregate limits almost 140,000 for the Stafford loans. And then
17:00
beyond that, graduate students can also get the graduate plus loan and there is no aggregate limit
17:07
for that. And the annual limit is whatever the cost of attendance is for the year, minus any
17:13
other aid that they've received. So it's not uncommon, especially for people pursuing
17:18
medical in the medical profession to see someone with three or 400,000 in federal student loans
17:25
They don't look at the borrower's income in any of those situations. There's no credit check at all
17:31
for the Stafford loans, there's a mild credit check on the PLUS loans, but they're really only
17:38
looking for big whammy. I call them the big whammies. So a judgment, a default on another
17:45
loan, a write-off within the last five years. They don't look at debt to income. They don't
17:51
look at credit score. Now for parent PLUS loans, it's the same thing. There's no annual limit
17:57
The limit is the cost of attendance minus any other aid the students received
18:03
And there's no aggregate limit. And there's no ability to pay components
18:07
So they don't look at debt to income ratio. They don't look at credit score
18:12
So unfortunately, what I see is it's not uncommon for a family where they hold more in parent plus loan than their total household income is
18:25
So it's a sticky wicket, though, because, you know, I have some policy ideas that could help ameliorate that
18:33
But you have to be careful because if it wasn't for Parent Plus loans, it would make college access and choice impossible, especially for the middle class
18:45
So there are some people that say get rid of Parent Plus, let it all go to the private market
18:50
The private market won't give them loans they can't afford to pay back. But again, you don't want to make higher education access and choice just something that the 1% can get
19:04
So it's a sticky wicket from a policy perspective. What are the schemes that you may have ran into related to college loans, taking out loans, repayments
19:16
What have you heard? What is your experience? I'm so glad you asked this question
19:22
This has been this student loan scams are another reason that I started TISLA was so consumers had a safe place to go and maybe were less likely to be victims of these scams
19:34
So they've been around for a long time. They seem to be upping their volume and activity lately
19:44
And there's really sort of two types of scams. there's the scams that where they promise to make you eligible for a forgiveness program
19:55
or get you a lower payment and they do it for a fee and sometimes that fee is quite high there's
20:01
usually an initial fee plus a monthly fee um it's not illegal in and of itself to charge for student
20:08
loan advice it should be in my opinion but it's not where it becomes illegal is where they
20:12
misrepresent what they're able to do or if they charge up front for their services. And the bottom
20:19
line is all these programs are free. You can do them yourself easily as a consumer just by either
20:27
talking to your loan servicer or logging into studentaid.gov or working with a free resource
20:32
But even without the free resources, there's not a person or entity on the planet, including me
20:39
that can get you a better deal on your student loan or a lower payment or access to a program
20:44
that you can't get yourself easily by doing a little research and working with
20:49
whomever your loan holder is. So the scams promise that stuff. The other ones, they take
20:58
advantage, and especially now, they take advantage of any discussion about possible broad student loan
21:06
forgiveness. So right now what they're touting is, oh, we can get you into the Biden loan forgiveness
21:11
program. There's no such thing. But this is not a new tactic. We heard it in the last administration
21:18
and the last administration never talked about loan forgiveness, but there were scams about the
21:23
Trump forgiveness program. And before that, the Obama forgiveness program. So not a new song
21:30
slightly different lyrics. But anybody that is asking for your passwords to your accounts
21:39
sometimes they ask for power of attorney. They'll charge you usually somewhere between
21:45
$6.99 seems to be a sweet spot as an upfront fee and then $39 a month after that. A lot of people
21:52
think that's their monthly payment and what that really is is a fee. And they have logos that look
21:58
like the Department of Eds. They have websites that are really similar to legitimate student
22:02
loan servicer websites, all the tricks. The Federal Trade Commission has been working really
22:08
hard to crack down on these entities. In April, we put on a broad social media campaign with over
22:16
40 other entities, including the Federal Trade Commission participated. The Consumer Finance
22:23
Protection Bureau did some of their own stuff to warn people about these student loan scams
22:29
We asked people to look at one of the reviews on our site. We have interviewed the consumer
22:35
that have left a review on this consumer. Her name is Michelle. To get a little bit more details about
22:41
your experience with CMC. So all of a sudden, they just started calling my phone one day
22:48
couple of years ago and they were super persistent telling me that I owed money and all this stuff
22:56
I actually checked my credit report and it actually had reported as a closed account
23:04
So I'm like, okay, why are you calling me about a closed account? Why are you being so persistent
23:10
calling me like four or five times a day about a closed account? And they told me that they have
23:15
every single right to do that. It's legal. They have the right to get me for whatever payments
23:22
they needed. It was awful. What can you advise to the person who let this ECMC review
23:31
We have a policy here at Tisla to be neutral when it comes to other companies. But with that said
23:39
But ECMC is a legitimate federal student loan servicer. They tend to take loans in a couple different situations
23:49
Either the Department of Education assigns them loans, or for federal loans that have
23:54
defaulted, they can be transferred over to ECMC or an organization like ECMC
24:01
The consumer has no choice in most cases when their loans are transferred
24:04
So I actually hear what your consumer said quite often. They're upset because their loan's transferred to ECMC or somebody else
24:13
They said, oh, I never authorized this. Fortunately, federal student loans, you don't have the authority to stop it or to request it
24:21
The best thing, if someone's not sure about, you know, if they get a bill for a student loan or a call and they're not sure about it
24:30
the first thing they should do is log on to their account at studentaid.gov
24:36
That's the Department of Education's website, and it's like the clearinghouse for federal student loans
24:42
and it's got a ton of really helpful information. But more importantly, in this scenario, it's going to tell you
24:49
do you have any open federal student loans? And if you do, who is currently holding them
24:55
So for this consumer, I would have her log on to studentaid.gov
24:59
and it should show if there a loan that currently being held by ECMC And if there isn then I would contact the department of education because it could maybe it a scammer that name isn ECMC
25:13
but something really close to ECMC. So that's, again, the first thing I would do
25:19
If you feel like your loans are already closed, you can contact the department of education ombudsman's office
25:27
which is also, you can either just Google student aid, Department of Education Ombudsman
25:33
or you can find their contact information at studentaid.gov and you can file a dispute with them and they'll look into it
25:41
and see if you have an open loan or not, or if it should have been closed
25:46
What tips would you give to consumers that are about to start taking out
25:53
the student loans either for themselves or for their children. First of all, and in no particular
26:00
order, you should never borrow anticipating forgiveness. I see a lot of people, unfortunately
26:05
that are borrowing now because they think that President Biden is going to do broad student loan
26:09
forgiveness. That's a big mistake. I think the chances of that are slim, but regardless, you
26:14
should never borrow anticipating forgiveness. When you borrow student loans, you should anticipate
26:18
paying back every penny of that as well as that interest. And if you end up getting forgiveness
26:25
awesome. But you should plan on paying back every penny and then some. I also want to see consumers
26:32
think about student debt in a different way. I think regardless of how financially savvy you are
26:39
you see a number like, oh, $50,000 in student loan debt or $100,000 in student loan debt
26:44
And I don't think our brains can really process that the way it needs to be
26:49
I want people to start thinking about student loan debt in how much their payments are going to be and for how long that is
26:57
So back of the napkin, for every 10 grand you borrow, you can anticipate a payment of around $125 a month every single month for 10 years
27:09
So when the student is first starting school, the other thing we assume, it takes 70% of
27:16
undergraduate students five years to complete their undergraduate degree. So whatever you're borrowing in year one, or you think you might have to borrow, multiply
27:24
that by five. And then for every 10 grand, assume $125 a month and then take a step back
27:31
Am I willing to pay that? So let's say you come out with 50 grand
27:36
um so that's what six seven hundred dollars a month are you is that something you're willing
27:43
to pay every single month for 10 years and if the answer is no then you need to start looking at
27:51
at other options and there are other options um you can go part-time and work more and pay more
27:58
of it out of pocket you can go to a lower priced school for the first two years um and save a lot
28:05
of money that way. Here's another fun fact for you. Three quarters of students change majors or
28:11
schools, which is why it ends up taking five years to complete. So with that in mind, it almost
28:18
doesn't matter where you go for that first year or two, as long as the credits are going to transfer
28:23
into your school of choice. And again, that can be a way to save a lot of money. But again
28:28
think about, don't think about the total. Don't go into it blindly. Think about the monthly payment
28:34
and how much you're willing to spend on that monthly payment. Consumers should start planning early
28:40
Get an idea what your payment's going to be come October. And if you're not going to be able to afford it
28:46
start looking at what your options are now and submit any paperwork you might need to submit
28:51
I would argue, by the first week of September, just to make sure you get ahead of that tidal wave
28:58
Thank you, Betsy, for your insights. It was a wonderful experience chatting with you today
29:03
Now we're going to talk with Iniyoma, who has become a successful pharmacist
29:09
And also, she managed to pay $130,000 in student loans in just one year
29:16
showing everyone that it is possible with a little bit of hard work and dedication
29:21
you are able to overcome the burden of the student loan. I was born in Nigeria and moved to the U.S. when I was 11
29:28
and went to school as an international student all the way through pharmacy school
29:35
And after that, I did a residency still as an international student. So I had a lot more loans than my American counterparts because I couldn't get federal loans
29:43
So I had international loans and the rates were much higher. So I had to figure out a way to make sure that I didn't become saddled with debt for the rest of my life
29:54
So, yeah, once I started working, I made sure to prioritize that, made sure I paid off my car first and then decided to go ahead and pay off my loans as soon as possible
30:02
Just because I would like to pursue financial freedom. My goal is to be financially independent by the time I'm 40
30:08
So eight years from now. And I'm hoping that becomes a reality
30:13
How did you end up with such high school loans? So pharmacy school, for the most part, if you're not going to a state school, can be pretty expensive since it's a postgrad program
30:28
And my school was about $30,000 to $36,000 a year. I took out just the bare minimum, the amount required
30:37
But because I was an international student, my interest rates were extremely high
30:42
So one of them was 13%, 11%, and then one of them was 5%
30:48
So that's why the interest rate just like ballooned. So I ended up borrowing about $96,000, I think, and then ended up at $130,000 by the time I was done
31:00
Just from the interest alone, not because I did anything else. So how did you manage to pay off the loan in one year
31:09
honestly you just have to double your income basically is this what you have to do um
31:18
you can decrease expenses as much as you want but at a certain point you're gonna have to pay for
31:22
food and shelter and clothing and all those things but i ended up picking up as many shifts as
31:28
possible at my workplace um i would work for like 21 days straight i would do like 18 hour shifts
31:34
and just back to back and just do as much as i could but i had a date in mind that i knew that
31:39
this was going to be over as soon as you're you're done paying this off so I didn't care how
31:44
exhausted or tired I was so in one year I literally doubled my usual salary just in order to pay off
31:52
the student loans and that's that's literally the only way I could do it I cut expenses
31:55
to the bare minimum like I would pinch and save and barely use my phone data so that I could not
32:01
have a high phone bill very little traveling all that stuff was good but if I had not been able to
32:07
pick up as many shifts at work as much as possible. I don't think that it would have made as much as a
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difference, you know, with just cutting expenses alone. For students, I would just encourage you
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to seek out as many scholarships as you can, even if it's a thousand dollar scholarship or
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$500 scholarship, even if it seems minute and trivial, any tiny dollar amount will help. You
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know, that could be the amount of money that you use to pay for food your semester or for gas. And
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And that's what I did in order to make sure that I borrowed the minimum. So seek out as many scholarships as you can and just search, talk to your dean, talk to your teachers, anybody that can help you find someone
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And you never know. The worst thing that they can say is no. But the best thing that they can say is yes. And now you have extra money that you didn't know you could have
32:56
Guys, I want to thank you for being the watchers of this consumer YouTube channel
33:01
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