How Liz Plank created her dream job and keeps it real

I'm a connection slut

Oh, oh, I'm feeling, I'm feeling angry about the fact that I get to do my dream job. Bye

I love your stuff online. Thanks. I hate her to do that. She's a paid actor. Horror movies are real

Horror movies are based on women's experiences dating men. I'm here with Liz Plank on Creator Playbook

I'm so excited to talk with you. I feel like you're like the perfect person for this show

You have your podcast, you do live shows, you do regular content all over the place

And I know from having like worked with you a little bit, I did, that like you do everything. You ideate, you're in it, you write it, you edit it. What

of the things that you do are your favorite things to do? Oh, I like that question. Yeah

My favorite thing right now is my podcast, Boy Problems. You know, I've done podcasts before

but this was the first time that it was all up to me, baby. I mean, I thought I was a one woman

band and then I started a podcast and then I was like, oh, okay, there's way more sweat involved

and way more mistakes. No, I had to basically teach myself how to do a three-camera setup

and did it inside my own bedroom, right? Because that's what you do

That's what you do. When you have no budget, you know? And in the end, I think that it made the show

so much better, honestly. I mean, my preference with any kind of thing

that I'm doing, like, I really do it to connect. I'm like a connect, I'm a connection slut

I want to connect. And so I love the idea that it felt like

I was on the same level with the audience as opposed to like I'm in this cool studio and I'm

cool whatever it's like no we're in bed we're hanging out this is a slumber party and I feel

like it's been reflected in just the the audience and the way that they respond and that they're

part of the show because it's you know it's called boy problems so we answer boy questions from the internet and so people are asking really intimate beautiful questions you know

um which which is what makes the show so good you are literally inviting people into your bedroom

but you also are so good at just like inviting people into like your life

Like most of the episodes are like you're interviewing people and that's great. But like also like I think my favorite episodes are where you're just like

you know what, this just happened. I've been thinking about this. And like, can I just like be real with you guys for a second

Like those are my favorites. And I guess it's like, what is your take on like authenticity

and how important it is in like content creation? Before we jump in, I'm so sorry to interrupt

but the sun as soon as we started is like hitting you guys like really intensely

We're shifting. We're shifting. We're shifting. Reframe that. If you're trying to be authentic, you've already, you already do not, right

And I get it. It's, you know, there's cameras, there's people looking at you

And so, you know, the whole like influencer voice, you know, is a new sort of product

I don't think we knew what that was even like 10 years ago when, I don't know, I started making videos

And so there's a way to speak. There's a way to even like eat food in a certain way

I'm like, you know, do you know that about this? No. influencer like you eat like this with your little hand like this and then like am i i don't even know

if i can do it it's like it makes me so uncomfortable it makes me uncomfortable too

obviously being an influencer is not i don't know the top job that you know dream job that i think

you know a lot of young people grew up wanting to to do that wasn't my dream job that didn't exist

right and so it was so easy to be authentic i guess uh earlier because there was no model and

And now there's so many models and there's so much influencer culture and there's so many people that you can imitate and use as role models

And I think role models are great, but be you, right? Like don't try and be someone else, which has always been, I think, the best advice no matter what career you're doing

I weirdly feel like even in the last few months that there's been this – Adam Faze said this, who's a great producer

He did Subway Takes and Creams, Keep the Meter Running and many other successful digital shows

And he says, every guy thinks that he's going to get rich off of online betting

Like one bet is going to make him rich. And every woman thinks that she's won Instagram video or TikTok from being famous

And I think that captures it, you know, and not to make it gendered. I think there are a lot of men who also think that

But I think that there's this idea that being an influencer or being a creator is like you can win the lottery

It's like any industry. It's like writing books, right? Most people who write books are not making money

there's that top one percent that are making a lot of money and so i think that there's a lot more

not people who are they're not scammers i think they're they they are trying on the costume of

being a creator and trying on the costume of being an influencer and and expecting those kinds of

results and then i think you know saddened by the fact that it doesn't always work most of the time

it doesn't work yeah that's so fast i love that concept of like like that like they're trying on

the costume yeah because it's like because it's like if you're trying to be a content creator or or an influencer to essentially win the lottery

To me, making this stuff, and the fun of making this stuff is the lottery And so the whole concept of well one video away from like making it or popping off or whatever It like well it never that easy

And then it's like, well, what are you going to do once you get there? Yeah. Like, is it just like, cool

I'm at the top of the mountain, peace. People, you know, would say, like, well, I want to become a journalist

or I want to become, you know, do online content. And how do I do it? It's like, find a passion

find what you're passionate about. And what you just said is so true, right? Like, winning the lottery is getting to do something

that's really interesting to you. and I know that even like I need to remind myself of that like I will have something pop off and be

like oh okay well now I have to just do that and it's like no that's not fun for me and so that

means that's not fun for the audience right like the podcast has been the most amazing thing I've

ever done and the most frustrating thing you know because so many people have podcasts now

it's harder to make money it's also now podcasts are not what it was like even five years ago it's

not a podcast it's a tv show right it's a three camera setup a two audio mic i mean you're managing

a lot and it costs a lot to make even if you're doing it all yourself that's a lot of labor and

so it's been it's been harder to like monetize and i'm sensing that i'm like having a little bit

of resentment like or i'm trying to do things to make it pop off instead of doing things that are

like i find interesting or that i find really fun and i as soon as i can sense that i i need to like

recalibrate. And how do you find that balance? You know, someone said this to me about, um

like writing a book, right. Uh, they were like, I was like, Oh, I don't know what I should write

about it. Like whatever you decide to write about, it is something that you are willing to think

about and hopefully write about every single day. Right. So, so I think the same thing applies even

again with the podcast when people are like, Oh, I want to launch a podcast. How should I do it

Do you want to do it for like, do you want to do it every day? Cause you're going to have to do it every day right and so that what i don't remember what your question was uh oh how do you find a

balance between like doing it for the love of the game and being authentic and like also supporting

totally i think it's both a curse and a blessing to do what you love yeah to to get paid to do what

you love is the dream and it can also turn into a nightmare because then yeah the thing that you

love, you have to like monetize essentially. And, and some people don't, some people just

again, hit the jackpot that one top one, I think like top 1% who just happen to do the thing that

they love and it just worked. And like, you know, they, they get brand deals or they get

you know, a certain amount of backing, but I have found it really hard. And, and honestly

I've had like some of, of my peers and also like mentors like intervene recently where they were

like, you can't be bleeding yourself dry, you know, trying to make the things that you, that

you care about. It was like a sad pivot for me. I would say like when I worked in media

I always had a salary. Right. And so when I left Vox in 2020 and really started committing to the

bit, it was like, oh, wow, I really I can't just do things that are interesting, like that I'm

passionate about. Like I have to also think about how to make money with it. And like it is like

a little heartbreaking, you know, it's a little heartbreaking. And then you go, oh, man, like

this could have just been a hobby that I do. And but again, like, is that better for me to

have a job doing something I don't care about and then getting to do the things I care about on the side

I feel like I did win the lottery and I get to do something that I love

But it does come with like, okay, well, you have to monetize it

It's not glamorous. It's a mind f***ing. It's good and bad. It is

It is. Initially, you're like, I'm doing what I love to do. This is amazing

And then it turns on you. And then I have to remember it. And this is something I, you know

I have Chessie, an amazing producer who helps me out with a lot of things. And I will say this where like

we'll get frustrated or something will happen. There'll be mistakes. And I'll be like, she'll

be like, okay, we can just do. And I'll be like, no, no, no, no, no. We're not having fun. And

having fun is the full, is the whole point. Like, like if we're not having fun, then, you know

not that every decision should be motivated by like, let's have more fun, but like, it should

because again, doing what you love and getting paid to do with it, the whole point of that is

for it to be fun. And so as soon as it doesn't start being fun again, for me, it's just a moment

to be like, Oh, Oh, I'm feeling, I'm feeling angry about the fact that I get to do my dream job

let's uh let's take a few steps back like how can i actually make this enjoyable you know um for

myself and yeah i it's for me it's just always like a little moment of like intervention and

being like oh poor me i get to pay my bills with the thing that i'm super passionate about i get to

like make like have a job after doing a women's studies like degree like like what you know so

so yeah it's it's a way to call yourself out sometimes and and again take a break like take

you know, you're just burnt out. You're not like with everything that you do. And it was just the level of output that you have

The fact that you're still able to sort of like have such a healthy mindset about it is amazing

It took me a minute. It took me a minute. And that's why I like, I, I don't know. I was talking to a younger, I'm like, I'm not even 40 yet

but I say I'm 40 cause I'm like excited about it. I was talking to someone who I was interviewing and she so talented She like 26 Like she so young and incredible And I was like get your make sure your manager working for you Make sure your agent is like I telling her the things that I wish I would have done differently

And one thing I really regret is not having more fun, you know? Right. Because I look back at the

things I did and I'm like, Oh my God, that was so fun. But then I'm like, Oh, I was actually like miserable. Yeah. Or not having fun or focused on what was wrong. Or again, just like being a little

bit my worst like enemy like being very like perfectionist and like focusing on what what was

what I didn't have or what I didn't so I think gratitude is a really I mean important part of it

it's like you'll watch Jake Shane on Jay Shetty I was just watching it and he's just like oh I'm

feeling bad about this and I'm like you're Jake Shane man like you're just like you're there and

he still has insecurities he has days and um and yeah I'm just like that's the advice like even

whoever creator you're like looking up to that you think once I get to that level everything will be

great i won't um there's no perfect thing you know and and i think that's a little bit the

one tiktok will make me go famous and my whole life will be perfect yeah i don't know if that's

how a lot of the people who that have literally happened to i don't know if that's how they even

feel no yeah no because at the end of the day no matter what you're doing no matter how much

you have you still have to like face yourself every day and like there is no silver bullet yes so that stress and anxiety and all that stuff that you have to deal with day to day and the kind

of person that hustles and that is, you know, entrepreneurial to do things on their own and to

to launch things out of nowhere, they tend to have a certain personality. Right. And so like

I, yeah, I have a tendency to overemphasize things that I've done wrong. Cause my brain is trying to

help me. My brain is trying to be like, well, let's, we can do it better next time. And so it is actually even more important to have a certain kind of, yeah, whether it's, um, I don't know

mental meditate, man, just like, or go out and smoke weed, you know, whatever works for you

like to have a little bit of a way to catch yourself because I think it will happen if you're

a hard-working person and you've yeah built anything what's up the sun is really baking you

baking me running away from the sun how do you differentiate your online content your man on the street content

versus uh versus like the stuff you do for your pocket oh yeah I love that when I do man on the

streets it's like I have a little bit of a brain that wants to do experiments all the time and so

Usually when I take it out to the streets, it's because I want to like, I really do want to hear what people feel and what people are thinking

Like last year, I did this video where I had a sneaking suspicion that if you ask men versus asking women, what's the worst date that you've been on

Men would have sort of trouble even like sort of finding one like that most dates that men go on

Not all of them, but there's not as much risk. There's not a safety gap

And so even if you're on a bad date, it's maybe not on par with the worst day that a woman has been on

And so I went actually here in Washington Square Park, my favorite place, and I literally just went up to strangers

A lot of people aren't doing Man on the Street to strangers anymore, but it takes more time and the edit is longer

And I totally love cutting down that production cost. But to me, there is something so beautiful and magical about it's documentary

Like it's a documentary. You're going out and you have no idea who you're going to talk to

You have no idea what they're going to say to you. Hi. I love your stuff online. Thanks

You're so sweet. Oh, my God. I love your fans. I paid her

I paid her to do that. She's a paid actor. It's magic to me. It's really magic

And so I did go up to women. I went up to men. And sure enough, yeah, the men were kind of like a man

The first guy I asked was like, oh, she didn't laugh at my jokes

Are you kidding me? I swear. It was like that quote. like men are afraid that women are going to laugh at them and women are afraid that men are going to

kill them and it's exactly what i found like that i asked this woman what's the worst day you've been

on and this was i mean the video is size at all when i walked in he was in his underpants and a

full monkey mask holding a gun are you joking no this woman and i did i just like never met this

woman in my life like i literally just went up to her horror movies are based on women's experiences

dating men with the podcast I think obviously I love interviewing people we've interviewed Zoran

Mamdani and Trudeau had a burner uh Mary Beth Barone I mean just like my faves and those are

super fun I mean this was my hope with the podcast I wanted it to feel like a voice note from your

best friend you know and I know that you might not know what that means because you're a man

and men don't send men the amount of men I've taught how to send a voice note they don't even

know how to do it and I'm like all I do is listen to like 20 minute voice notes from my friends you

know it's it's just like this happened and then what the f*** and then you make a joke and then

something else happens like it just cinematic it amazing it deep it confessional I had an episode where I talked about having an eating disorder you know something i never sort of like uh had talked about but it felt like i was lying if i this is how i know when i feel like i lying if i don bring

it up like i have a new boyfriend so i have to bring it up to every person i talk to uh and i

felt nervous about like because i've been single for a long time and i don't trust men like you

guys are really psychos like it's just like the amount of like times i thought it was great and i

was just being love bombed or whatever he had like a secret wife like i didn't even tell my friends

you know i didn't tell my family but i was like i have to tell my podcast listeners and so at my

live show i was like i hard launched him because he gave me a uti so i had to talk about it he

hasn't even met my friends yet and my urinary track was like should we make this official

and my friends were in the audience being like wait what like you have a boyfriend you know and

so they were a little mad but i sometimes i literally feel like i'm lying if i don't talk

about certain things. I love that you have such like, such a, like, like, like a deep, strong

relationship with your audience more so than like my own family. But again, it's my best friend

It's my voice. It's like, Oh, I have, she has to know. That's another element of like why you come

across so authentic and why I feel like your relationship with your, with your fan base

like, you know, is so like, like is stronger than most, I think. And also I think my favorite thing

about your approach to making content is that you use this art form of content creation

as a way to truly explore things and experiment things that you're trying to figure out

as opposed to approaching it from a place of this product is going to resonate

with the most amount of people online. That, I think, is the stroke of someone

who's an artist as a content creator and influencer versus someone who's just one of those things

That's really sweet. No one has ever put it that way. Really? Yeah, it's really sweet of you to say

Yeah, sure. I love that. And I don't even blame people who are trying to be an influencer, right

And I guess that's the advice of just like don't try and be an influencer, right? Like just be you

What's interesting to you. I mean that was my whole journey. I'm not even American, man. I don't even – I didn't even have a visa to work here

Like I came here. I had an internship. I really liked feminism and I was really interested in it

And I just started like really just writing about it, making videos about it. Had no intention of that turning into an entire career

Like I created content around something that I really had questions about. I mean, it's a little bit what you said

Like I am processing it. And for me, like, that's why we hang out with friends

That's why we get dinner. Right. And you're like, okay, this happened. And then like, I think this is what it means

But like, am I being a ? Or like, is that like, and to me, that is the process of writing for me

Even when I'm writing something, which you would think, oh, there's no one saying anything back like the comments

And, you know, I think AOC did it or someone said that about AOC of like, you use social

media not to talk to listen. It's just like fascinating. Like the internet is this like social, huge social experiment where you can just pull a whole bunch of people that you would have never been able to talk to or even been in contact with physically because they're all over the world

But my boyfriend said this earlier, he was like, you're like the Jane Goodall of people. Like you're just like into people

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's an anthropological study. Yeah. Which is what you've said about reality television

It is. The internet is anthropology. Yeah. Right. Like. 100%. Yeah. And it's anthropology in the sense that there are dark corners of it

there's like horrible things happening on the internet and there's a lot of people who are

using it for you know bad oh yeah and and like so what a great time to be a good person on the

internet you know what a good time it's become really really hard like like anyone who is doing

creator work like is the hardest working person like it is a really genuinely impressive thing to

do because there's a lot of places to be all at once and um if you have adhd you're you're

perfectly suited for this career um thank god validation for my way to channel channel your

inability to stay still you know like impossible yeah are there any kids out there that are doing

good stuff that so many oh my god my friend zeta like we were just talking that's who i was like

cornering her and being like oh my god you're literally gonna be hosting weekend update um

Her handle is Apple Say Doer. She's so funny. She cracks me up

You're not my type. Love it. She's so funny. I love her

Every day there's more and more people. Yeah, and that's what's so fun. There's so much opportunity, so much talent

And I am like, I feel like an elder now, and it's really nice, actually

Like, I'm like, I'm not going to compete with, like, I'm hoping we can retire at one point

And I can just like and reshare everything that the youngsters are doing

and that's winning the lottery is being able to retire on this stuff i know still pending still pending