0:06
hi everyone I'm Kelly ooro and this is
0:09
adaptable Behavior explained hi
0:12
everybody thanks for tuning in to
0:13
adaptable today I'm Kelly ooro and we're
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going to wrap up our season here uh
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season one on our show with some rapid
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fire questions I have with me um Taylor
0:24
aoro and she's got a list of questions
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for me from um all of our previous
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episodes and so I'm going to do my best
0:32
to recap the questions that she has for
0:35
me so let's go for it all right what is
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EFT therapy emotion focused couples
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therapy it is a therapy to help
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strengthen Bonds in couples it helps the
0:46
client or the couple to identify their
0:48
negative interaction cycle and
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ultimately add address their attachment
0:52
wounds that cause their conflicts can
0:55
you elaborate on attachment Styles
0:57
attachment Styles this is how we relate
0:59
to one another and they fall into the
1:01
categories of secure avoidant anxious or
1:04
disorganized what is the we Concept in
1:08
interdependent relationships we in order
1:11
to have a healthy relationship we have
1:12
to have an independent eye and another
1:14
independent eye to make a healthy
1:16
interdependent we and interdependency is
1:19
not uh the same as codependency it's
1:21
okay to rely on one another but our
1:23
okayness can't be dependent on if
1:25
someone else is okay how does
1:27
co-regulation work in relationships we
1:30
are hardwired to actually um be in
1:33
connection with others and so if for
1:36
example as a parent if my child is
1:38
really upset um my stance of calmness
1:41
and and security can help co-regulate my
1:43
child and the same thing can happen in
1:45
adult relationships in our attachment
1:47
figures or even in our friendships how
1:49
do you identify a negative interaction
1:51
cycle in couples uh well they're are
1:54
reoccurring patterns that happen in a in
1:56
a couple a couple ship and it depends on
1:59
their emotional disregulation and those
2:01
patterns tend to be similar and they're
2:03
usually based in someone's attachment
2:04
history and of course their trauma
2:06
history and so we start to see something
2:08
that's repetitive and that's how we um
2:10
identify their cycle what are the common
2:13
triggers in a negative interaction cycle
2:15
um feeling like unmet needs feeling
2:18
unheard unseen uh lacking in affirmation
2:22
or a validation are oftentimes something
2:25
that triggers us how does childhood
2:27
trauma affect adult relationships who
2:30
how doesn't it well uh basically
2:32
everything that we learned in our family
2:34
systems ends up being part of how we see
2:36
the world today and so if I was
2:38
neglected or unloved as a child I
2:41
oftentimes might project on to my
2:42
partner that um I'm I'm being unloved or
2:45
neglected now and so that would show up
2:48
but ultimately how we view our self our
2:50
safety our worth our power and control
2:53
often show up um from our unresolved
2:55
stuff in our childhood what is the Ace
2:58
study Aces adverse childhood experience
3:01
study this is where 177,000 people were
3:04
questioned by social workers uh and they
3:06
were asked 10 questions and those
3:08
questions uh indicated whether or not
3:11
someone had a propensity for a future um
3:14
health issue they were medical um uh
3:17
patients asked emotional questions about
3:19
their childhood uh and uh if they had a
3:22
score of um 1 to 10 and the higher the
3:25
aces score the lower the lifespan and
3:29
and the in increase in um illness and
3:31
chronic disease how do adverse childhood
3:34
experiences impact Health well if I'm in
3:37
fight flight or freeze too much of the
3:40
time and my cortisol levels are so high
3:43
and my adrenal response is so high
3:45
because of the things that happened to
3:46
me in my childhood um and it's meant to
3:48
be shortterm and not prolonged it starts
3:51
to take its toll on our body our organs
3:54
and our uh then compromises our health
3:57
and um often times shows up like
3:59
autoimmune issues or chronic pain
4:01
illness and can even be more detrimental
4:04
with uh illnesses cardiovascular issues
4:06
gastroenterology issues ETC so yks what
4:10
are the three subtypes of Aces uh we've
4:13
got physical abuse we've got household
4:15
dysfunction such as you know my dad hits
4:18
my mom or I have uh you know a parent in
4:21
prison or uh we've got and then we've
4:24
got physical abuse just just overt
4:26
physical abuse how does physical abuse
4:28
affect Mental Health well it definitely
4:31
affects the way we one feels safe in our
4:33
body and so if I'm hurt and physically
4:35
damaged especially by someone who's
4:37
supposed to take care of me like a
4:38
caregiver um then I it compromises my
4:41
trust it compromises my ability to to
4:43
see safety in the world and often times
4:46
makes me Vigilant or jumpy and um and
4:50
and I don't feel safe in the now because
4:51
I'm kind of waiting for the other shoe
4:53
to drop what are the signs of emotional
4:56
neglect boy those can be all kinds I can
4:59
be aggressive I could numb out I could
5:02
be a caretaker and a people pleaser I
5:05
could um really shut down and be super
5:08
avoidant and not want to spend time
5:10
connecting with others because I'm not
5:11
safe to do so so it can look like a lot
5:14
of things how does substance AB use in
5:16
the household affect children oh boy uh
5:19
well we learn what we live and so if we
5:22
see our parents coping with their pain
5:24
points and their raw spots through
5:26
substance use uh then we learn that's
5:28
how we should do it and so um you know
5:31
For Better or Worse whether parents are
5:32
doing the best they can it still has an
5:35
impact on our children what is the
5:39
therapy uh I think it's around 75 to
5:43
around 80% um but it's pretty high and
5:46
that that is if we go so studies show
5:50
that um couples without a lot of trauma
5:52
can make really good outcomes in 12
5:54
sessions people that have a lot of
5:56
trauma in their relationships and don't
5:58
have their own individual therapists
5:59
might need upwards of 20 sessions but
6:01
again everybody's different um and that
6:04
would be for more complex cases but it's
6:06
very effective okay and it usually
6:08
highlights the personal work that we
6:09
have to do in our individual
6:12
Story how does EMDR therapy work oh boy
6:15
it's the magic uh very simply put if we
6:19
have something bad scary helpless
6:21
happened to us and we weren't prepared
6:23
to handle it our brain locks it in as if
6:26
that's potentially something that could
6:27
be happening still and so what ends up
6:30
um our our body ends up acting as if the
6:33
thing that was maladaptively encoded uh
6:36
is current and so we end up with past
6:39
present confusion and so EMDR therapy we
6:41
go back to the the things that happen to
6:44
us and we review them uh using very
6:46
specific protocol and um help to catch
6:49
up and connect up the thwarted parts of
6:51
our story with today so that it matches
6:53
the now and anything that got stuck
6:56
physically emotionally and tied with
6:58
those beliefs of self like I'm not
6:59
worthy I'm not enough I'm I'm I'm not in
7:02
control I'm not safe those get locked in
7:04
with the way the memory is held and so
7:06
we help to review that and unlock it and
7:09
turn it into something that just
7:10
happened to us as opposed to feeling
7:12
like it's happening today what are the
7:14
symptoms of trauma oh my gosh there's
7:17
such a huge list um you could have um
7:20
hypervigilance nightmares
7:25
dissociation um you know emotional
7:28
disregulation the inability to tolerate
7:31
changes in environment there's a there's
7:33
just a list goes on and on inflexibility
7:36
rigidity Etc how does trauma affect
7:40
Behavior well I think in the in the
7:42
consequence of everything I just said we
7:45
might avoid um we might avoid
7:48
relationships we might avoid scenarios
7:51
that remind us of something in the past
7:53
um if if I was in a bad car accident I
7:55
might be afraid to drive if the car
7:57
accident happened on this street I might
7:58
avoid going down that street um I might
8:01
project onto all my offspring that they
8:03
can't drive because driving is
8:04
inherently going to get them in a bad
8:06
accident you know all these things might
8:08
be an example of how we respond to
8:11
trauma what is the window of Tolerance
8:13
aha the window of Tolerance is a frame
8:16
of reference that we talk about as
8:18
trauma therapists where humans all have
8:20
a certain amount of capacity and that's
8:22
where like it's our optimal window of
8:23
arousal I can tolerate think feel act
8:26
react and use my prefrontal cortex I can
8:29
think and and react in in real time when
8:31
bad things happen our window gets
8:33
smaller and so we might um act more
8:37
hyperaroused and be more anxious
8:39
irritable defensive um hypervigilant
8:42
which might look more like anxiety or we
8:44
might have done that so long that we end
8:46
up shutting down and we end up more
8:48
outside of the window in the more
8:49
depressed state or hypoarousal and this
8:52
is looks like passive dead shutting down
8:54
can't say no uh dead inside rather and
8:57
that um is is more depress impressed
8:59
looking and so that's the window how do
9:01
you build rapport with clients in
9:03
therapy listen have empathy be
9:07
validating but I think that the key is
9:10
not just doing those things but doing
9:11
with doing it with like Exquisite
9:13
Attunement really being in the present
9:16
space with a person and allowing that
9:18
felt sense of connection that often
9:20
times has never been there for someone
9:22
and so it's modeling appropriate
9:24
Attunement in a relationship so that
9:26
they know what it's supposed to feel
9:27
like when we are just really um present
9:30
somebody what is the importance of
9:34
therapy just because someone comes into
9:37
therapy doesn't mean that you have a
9:39
client you might have a customer but you
9:41
may not have a client and when I say
9:43
that I mean be careful what you wish for
9:45
because with the MDR therapy which is
9:47
what I do it's going to change and you
9:50
are you ready for that and are you ready
9:51
to uncover the the reasons why you may
9:54
behave the way that you do and I want to
9:56
make sure that you let your family
9:57
system know there's likely going to be
9:59
change and so informed consent is do we
10:01
have an agreement here you know because
10:03
you came to me and just CU you're here
10:04
doesn't mean you're truly ready to
10:06
address the things that you need to
10:07
address how do emotions influence
10:10
behavior emotions are the the
10:13
predecessor of all Behavior it's the
10:15
chemical that goes first it teaches us
10:18
um you know seeking feeling loving
10:22
lusting connecting fear all of those
10:25
emotions they indicate U there's
10:27
something that happens before our action
10:29
and and so emotion affects all Behavior
10:32
everything we ever did predicated on the
10:34
emotions that happened chemically in our
10:35
body before we acted how does disordered
10:40
trauma uh disordered eating is a symptom
10:43
of trauma and oftentimes related to
10:45
attachment issues and attachment
10:47
injuries uh it's a complex presentation
10:50
because uh there's dopamine that comes
10:53
from binge eating there is a level of
10:55
perception of control when I with uh
10:57
withhold food from myself and it gives
10:59
me this illusion that I'm somehow in
11:01
charge of something and so it's a
11:03
complex presentation but ultimately it's
11:05
an adaptation that often times is
11:08
developed based on things that uh
11:10
happened in our 0o to three Z to five
11:12
years or sometimes even in utero uh once
11:15
had a client who uh there was a an inudo
11:18
experience where they were deprived of
11:21
food because there was a a physical a
11:23
problem that wasn't passing nutrients
11:25
from Mom onto baby and that turned into
11:27
a binge eating disorder in a young child
11:29
childhood because there was an
11:30
insatiableness like she's going to
11:32
starve and it's cuz she started out
11:33
starving and so it's fascinating how
11:36
what we don't think can it be attributed
11:38
to our eating choices what are the signs
11:41
of emotional overwhelm boy that can look
11:43
very different that can look like um
11:46
crying tearfulness anxiety it can look
11:49
like anger rage it can look like totally
11:52
shutting down and the inability to speak
11:55
it can look like any of those things how
11:57
does substance abuse relate to trauma it
12:00
is a way that people will cope and a lot
12:03
of times people treat substance abuse as
12:06
it's the as as if it's the issue but
12:08
typically it's like a it's a comorbid we
12:11
call it a com comorbidity where
12:13
basically there's a there's an
12:14
unresolved traumatic experience or
12:16
something going on in my life that I
12:18
haven't resolved and the way that I'm
12:20
addressing the emotional overwhelm is
12:22
through using a substance and so it
12:24
changes the way I feel temporarily uh we
12:26
call that a state change and so if
12:29
overwhelmed from my day and I decide to
12:31
have a glass of wine um I will have a
12:33
state change that was chemically induced
12:35
and so often times if I do that too much
12:37
for too long or too many drinks every
12:40
single night because I can't tolerate
12:41
being in my current current um
12:44
circumstance then it can turn into an
12:46
additional problem and so they they
12:49
usually work hand inand what are the
12:51
common sleep issues related to
12:53
trauma it can be the inability to get to
12:56
sleep to stay asleep to stay relaxed in
12:58
sleep um nightmares can be impacted
13:01
sleep apnea can be part of sleep
13:04
disturbances uh sleep hygiene and things
13:06
we do before we go to sleep can impact
13:08
the way we sleep and that can be you
13:11
know if I can't stop scrolling on my
13:13
phone until the second I try to close my
13:14
eyes then my brain isn't going to be set
13:16
up but maybe I can't put my phone down
13:18
because I can't tolerate the way I feel
13:20
when I'm just being so I scroll and so
13:23
now my my sleep can be affected so
13:25
there's a whole bunch of things that um
13:27
the nervous system ultimately doesn't
13:30
say it's time to be calm and relax and
13:32
we're safe now and so it stays busy and
13:35
the Brain can stay busy how does shame
13:38
affect mental health oh boy shame is so
13:40
hard it's our most inhibitory emotion it
13:42
shuts us down it it takes the mistakes
13:45
and the the regret and the remorse that
13:47
we may have had for something and it
13:49
turns it into an I'm bad and it's really
13:51
hard to deal with the I'm bad it's like
13:53
a big blanket of um yuck and so often
13:57
times that really negative impacts
13:59
someone's overall sense of worth and
14:01
when we have a sense of Shame that's
14:03
really heavy we we typically know
14:05
there's some pretty complex trauma
14:08
developmental trauma or something that
14:09
happened over and over and over again
14:11
for someone to have a big shame
14:13
presentation what are the signs of
14:16
hypervigilance that is a more obvious
14:18
one someone who can't sit with their
14:20
back to the door someone who is
14:22
constantly scanning when they're in a in
14:23
a a restaurant or in a place with a lot
14:25
of people um someone who's uh constantly
14:29
checking doors and locks and you know
14:32
buying replacement items before needed
14:35
uh having several backups for things
14:37
because they're they're always looking
14:39
ahead to the when the when the other
14:41
shoe is going to drop how does
14:43
dissociation manifest in trauma
14:45
survivors dissociation is a trauma
14:48
presentation that's fairly common and
14:51
PTSD is actually a dissociative disorder
14:53
um and it's just a way that my brain
14:56
will help me kind of take me out of the
14:57
game and disconnect and and so it's it's
15:00
fairly common and most of us will have
15:02
some degree of dissociation although not
15:05
pathological in nature so I might be
15:07
driving down the street and I miss the
15:09
exit because I'm kind of zoned out but
15:11
I'm still present enough to Swerve if a
15:13
car comes into me so I'm here but not
15:15
here not like really pray paying
15:16
attention but a full like dissociative
15:19
State might look like I don't even
15:21
remember that I'm in the car and that
15:22
I'm driving or I didn't even remember
15:24
gaps of time and so there's five
15:26
different dissociative disorders and um
15:29
they're they can be pretty complex what
15:32
is the role of psychoeducation and
15:34
therapy boy I think that in All Therapy
15:37
we have to learn why we act the way we
15:40
act and what's going on around us and no
15:42
matter what type of therapy we do we
15:44
need to understand and learn the way the
15:46
Body Works the way we re you know the
15:48
way we uh act in relationship to others
15:51
and so we need to be educated on all of
15:54
those things and so I I think that any
15:56
effective therapy is going to uh include
15:58
some psycho education and that's part of
16:00
why we did this show is we wanted to be
16:02
able to help people understand how
16:04
things work and and how they work and
16:07
why we might be acting certain ways so
16:09
that they can they can be more educated
16:11
if they're interested yeah how do you
16:13
explain the reason for history taking in
16:16
therapy we have to understand the pieces
16:18
of a person's puzzle and how are they
16:20
going to look at the lens of their life
16:22
how are they going to um how were they
16:24
impacted by you know how they were
16:26
parented what what their family system
16:28
looked like where are they in the birth
16:30
order were their resources were their
16:32
religious components that may or may not
16:34
have been helpful um were there two
16:37
parents at home were they treated
16:39
unfairly was there any abuse involved I
16:42
we have to know that because that's
16:43
going to really shape the way a person
16:44
shows up and ultimately affects their
16:47
presenting issues what are the common
16:49
defensive behaviors in
16:54
um defensive behaviors might look like
16:57
uh being argumentative sh
17:01
stockpiling um stonewalling there's all
17:04
kinds of things that we do to um be
17:07
protected and on guard in our
17:09
relationships and none of which a
17:11
cultivate connection and and um help us
17:15
intimacy how does the story We Tell
17:18
ourselves affect our
17:20
reactions we all take the data that we
17:23
experience and run it through our own
17:25
filter and we make up the story about
17:28
what our emotional experiences and I
17:30
often will take I'll often tell people
17:33
feelings aren't facts just because you
17:35
have an emotional experience doesn't
17:36
mean there's there's accuracy to the why
17:38
and even though you want to look for the
17:40
reason that justifies your emotional
17:42
experience often times it's faulty and
17:45
you know it is affected because our
17:47
lenses are a little bit cloudy and our
17:49
perspective is skewed because of our
17:50
trauma histories and so our story or the
17:53
story or the that we make up or the
17:55
assumptions that we make really can
17:57
Cloud the way someone hears us because
17:59
um often times it's it's a skew from the
18:02
reality what is the role of alarm bells
18:05
in a negative interaction cycle this
18:07
says here we go we are going to enter
18:09
our cycle and in appropriate EFT therapy
18:13
you know it's not you that's the problem
18:14
or you that's the problem it's the cycle
18:16
that's the problem so when we see those
18:18
alarm Bells we go oh the cycle is about
18:20
to take over and that's when we might
18:22
have an opportunity to make a different
18:23
choice and disengage from our cycle it's
18:25
a good way to look at that how do you
18:27
cope with defensive behaviors personally
18:31
it's a little bit different in my
18:32
personal life no I'm just kidding um
18:34
when I see that in a um therapeutic
18:37
setting it's just data for me it's like
18:39
oh I just noticed that there you know
18:41
you're being defensive and um can you
18:44
tell me what just happened now being our
18:47
best selves that's how we want to
18:48
approach it in a in our personal lives
18:50
too when we see that like hey what just
18:52
happened either what I said didn't land
18:54
the way I meant for it to land or can
18:55
you tell me what just came up for you
18:57
because um I I didn't expect that
19:00
response from you it wasn't what my my
19:03
conversation meant to
19:05
elicit what is the impact of high
19:07
cortisol levels on health ah a little
19:10
bit like the aces question uh ultimately
19:12
we're not meant to be in that fight
19:14
fleas fight Freeze or flea response all
19:16
the time and so it's meant to be in
19:18
Burse and then it's meant to settle and
19:20
so if we have like extended periods
19:22
where we are in a lot of cortisol it
19:24
just reeks havoc on our body and the
19:26
rest of our systems and it's just really
19:28
uh we're not meant to be in a stress
19:30
State all the time and so it hurts our
19:32
organs and it impacts the way our brain
19:34
works and the way our you know our
19:36
computer functions for the rest of our
19:37
body how does chronic stress affect the
19:40
body it boosts our adrenal response and
19:43
it boosts our cortisol response and it
19:45
and it makes us sick over time what are
19:47
the Comm common health issues related to
19:50
Aces boy you have substance abuse issues
19:53
that often times create other additional
19:56
health issues we've got pulmonary issues
19:59
diabetes um you can have um you know
20:03
heart issues cardiac issues
20:05
gastrointestinal issues a lot of those
20:08
are tied to adverse childhood
20:10
experiences because of the exacerbated
20:12
state of stress in the body when a lot
20:14
of things that have been bad have
20:15
happened to us and our body's trying to
20:17
navigate that stress how does mental
20:20
illness in the household affect children
20:22
boy it it sure creates codependency
20:25
because our children are constantly
20:27
sizing our uh sizing up our environment
20:29
and they're looking for what's going on
20:31
and how do they need to respond to try
20:33
to prevent the bad things from coming
20:36
and so if Mom's always on the couch you
20:38
know depressed and shutting down then I
20:40
learn I have to take care of myself I
20:42
have to make my own food I have to take
20:44
care of my siblings because no one else
20:45
is going to do it maybe I have someone
20:47
who's highly perfectionistic and
20:49
everything has to always be perfect and
20:51
that creates a bit of an eggshell no
20:53
matter what I do it's not going to be
20:54
good enough thing um if I have a parent
20:56
who's really aggressive then I'm not not
20:58
going to trust myself and I'm going to
21:00
be waiting for them to yell and so I'm
21:01
not going to really try to do things
21:03
because I'm going to be expecting it to
21:04
be you know yelled at or or shamed um so
21:08
ultimately mental illness always impacts
21:11
children and it's why it's one of the
21:13
scores on the adverse childhood
21:15
experience marker what are the signs of
21:17
domestic violence in a
21:20
household those can vary depending on
21:23
the adaptation of the child it can look
21:25
like U you know low school grades um it
21:28
can look like inability to connect and
21:31
be in relationship with others there
21:33
might be physical signs of of of the
21:35
violence on whether it's bruising or
21:37
black eyes or things like that which are
21:39
more obvious you might see ex um major
21:42
expressions of emotionality whether
21:44
they're shut down or they're tearful or
21:46
there's all kinds of things that we can
21:47
look like that we can see that are maybe
21:50
indications of domestic violence how
21:52
does parental separation affect
21:55
children uh well if parents are not
21:58
together uh the child often times has to
22:00
be in more than one household and um
22:03
that can be really hard to navigate for
22:04
a child if a parent is estranged or
22:07
alienated entirely then there's going to
22:09
be a tremendous amount of grief and loss
22:10
in addition to the the change in the
22:13
environment and um it's always better if
22:17
we can have two parents to rely on for
22:19
sure what are the common behaviors of
22:21
avoid and attachment
22:23
style uh conflict avoidance shutting
22:26
down not reaching out not asking asking
22:28
for help when you might need help being
22:31
incredibly independent and autonomous
22:33
and I've got it and I'll do it
22:35
myself how does anxious attachment
22:39
style how does anxious attachment style
22:42
manifest in relationships it looks like
22:44
are you okay are you mad at me they
22:46
didn't call me back they didn't text me
22:48
back uh something must be wrong did I do
22:50
something wrong am I in trouble that's
22:52
what anxious looks like what are the
22:54
benefits of mindfulness and therapy oh
22:58
we have to be connected to our body to
23:00
know what's going on our body is the
23:01
dashboard and so if we are mindful
23:04
present and I know there's a lot of Buzz
23:05
around that but it really is the magic
23:07
if I'm in my body and I can sense what's
23:09
happening I can have choices about what
23:11
I can do with it rather than impulsively
23:14
reacting to to what's happening in my
23:16
environment so mindfulness heals the
23:18
brain slows us down highly recommend how
23:22
do you measure success in EFT therapy we
23:25
get to terminate couples can repair
23:28
they're conflict lasts uh in uh their
23:30
conflicts last they're shorter we can
23:32
repair and move back and circle back
23:35
when we have empathic fa failers we can
23:37
we can address them and we can get back
23:40
on the same page and be back in
23:42
connection what are the common
23:44
challenges in implementing EFT therapy
23:47
we've got to have two available partners
23:49
that are willing to look at their part
23:50
in things we've got to have someone
23:52
who's willing to face and tolerate their
23:55
their side of the street and ultimately
23:57
not every everybody is just because
24:00
someone comes into therapy doesn't mean
24:01
they're both ready to look at their part
24:03
of the cycle what are the benefits of
24:05
co-regulation and relationships boy we
24:08
always do better when we can rely on
24:10
someone else and it doesn't mean we have
24:12
to have a big group of people as long as
24:14
we know that we've got someone we can
24:16
lean on uh and and have them be there
24:19
for us when we are not doing so well and
24:21
we can say I just need you to be here
24:22
for me we uh can can move through
24:25
emotional overwhelm so much easier if we
24:29
can have someone to co-regulate with us
24:31
how do you create a safe space for
24:36
just show up show up with love show up
24:40
with compassion uh empathy understanding
24:45
patience curiosity I think all of those
24:48
things are part of creating a
24:50
relationship and of course if they're
24:52
invested um and and I think that I think
24:55
that something that's really important
24:57
is to be genuine and authentic they can
24:59
feel it if you're not and so I think
25:01
it's important to creating a
25:03
relationship that you know they know
25:05
they they can sense a truth to who you
25:07
really are as a person and I try pretty
25:10
hard to emulate that awesome you got
25:13
through all of them thank you so much I
25:15
appreciate you being here boy that was a
25:16
lot so thank you um if you are
25:19
interested in any of those topics at a
25:21
deeper level we've got an episode for
25:23
you uh so thank you so much for tuning
25:25
in today hopefully that was a nice um
25:28
recap of season one and you found any
25:31
some of those topics interesting and
25:33
helpful um and until we meet again don't
25:36
forget to lead with love it'll never