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MBSR: Meditation Changes Your Brain
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Feb 6, 2025
Welcome to Adaptable | Behavior Explained! In this episode, Kelly O'Horo, and Julie demystify MBSR, covering essential topics that reshape our understanding. Explore the comprehensive MBSR training process, including the 8-week course and impactful full-day retreat. Hear about Julie's personal evolution, discovering her path as an MBSR teacher. Gain profound insights from silent retreats, emphasizing intentional communication and self-regulation. Uncover the groundbreaking work of John Kabat Zinn, unraveling the history and influence of MBSR in Western culture. I'm Kelly O'Horo, Attachment based EMDR Therapist, EMDRIA Consultant, and Advanced Trainer. I'm a mom of 5, Nonna of 5, wife, and a healer. I have the honor of spending my workdays walking along side people while they brave their healing journeys. I try to live with the generous assumption that we're all doing the best we can with what we know. Therapists are teachers for the "life stuff" and "emotional vocabulary" that may not have been learned due to gaps in our care givers capabilities. In the last 15 years I've learned that people are freaking amazing, resilient, and inspiring. Most importantly, we are hardwired for connection and for healing! I hope to bring an authentic, compassionate, and unpolished approach while we explore a variety of topics such as parenting, marriage, relationships, dating, trauma, attachment, adoption, depression, addiction, anxiety, and love! There's a why for all behaviors and an explanation that makes perfect sense as emotion is at the root of it all. -- Links -- https://linktr.ee/kellyohorolpc https://youtu.be/rLnARKekvgo https://www.emdria.org/find-an-emdr-therapist/ Register for Julie's MBSR Class - https://www.eventbrite.com/e/729475951207?aff=oddtdtcreator
View Video Transcript
0:06
hi everyone I'm kellyo horo and this is
0:09
adaptable Behavior explained hi
0:12
everybody thanks for tuning in today I'm
0:14
really excited to have you here today
0:17
specifically because my dear friend and
0:19
colleague is joining us to talk about an
0:22
very important concept uh meditation and
0:25
mindfulness but specifically mbsr
0:27
mindfulness-based stress reduction and
0:30
so I'm going to hear from her we're
0:32
going to talk about how this can change
0:33
your life and some specific applications
0:36
that you can use uh as a beginner or a
0:39
way to improve your uh meditation
0:42
practice as she's going to discuss with
0:44
us today so thanks for tuning in without
0:47
further Ado Julie please go ahead and
0:49
tell us a little bit about yourself all
0:51
right um I have been a counselor for 25
0:54
years I've been an EMDR therapist for 22
0:58
of those years um I'm a EMDR facilitator
1:02
so I teach basic I'm an RP gtep trainer
1:05
RP GP is for recent traumatic episodes
1:09
um I'm also an mbsr teacher which is one
1:14
of the things I'm really proud of
1:16
because um meditation and mindfulness um
1:19
works really well on its own and
1:22
especially really well with um EMDR in
1:25
helping people um be more in control of
1:29
them eles and to be able to handle
1:33
stress wonderful so you g you gave the
1:37
audience a mouthful of acronyms and
1:39
everything else and I think it's
1:41
important for us to dive in a little bit
1:43
to the specifics of those things so what
1:46
that really means everybody is she's
1:48
extensively qualified to be here and
1:50
tell us a whole lot about about her
1:53
craft and another important piece of
1:56
this story is she's been my mentor since
1:58
I started this profession and I'm really
2:01
grateful to have had you in my corner
2:03
and to get to learn from you all these
2:04
years and continue getting to learn from
2:07
you and be in this in this journey
2:10
together so I'm I'm ever so grateful to
2:12
have someone like you in my life but
2:15
your expertise is just fabulous and the
2:18
training that you went through to become
2:20
qualified to be an mbsr teacher is
2:23
pretty extensive so can you tell us a
2:24
little bit about that because I want to
2:27
make sure our viewers understand medit
2:30
is not just throwing on an app 3 minutes
2:32
a day necessarily although that's a
2:34
great start yeah there's a whole lot
2:36
more that you were required to learn and
2:39
a lot of Hoops you had to jump through
2:41
to to really become an expert or a
2:44
master at this topic so can you tell us
2:46
what that training was like yeah so so
2:48
the mbsr training um does take a long
2:51
time and it's it's very interesting
2:53
because I've been meditating for for a
2:55
long time and I meditated before I took
2:58
the mbsr class so the MBS R class is an
3:01
8-week class that has a full day um
3:04
Retreat so I took this back in 2018 and
3:08
when I started it was like oh this is it
3:10
this is perfect this is what I want to
3:11
do I want to become a teacher right and
3:14
then after I got out of that it was like
3:15
wow there's a lot that you have to do to
3:17
be a teacher and I was like I was
3:20
looking at my life at that point in time
3:22
and um and it wasn't the right fit but I
3:24
continued to meditate and um then things
3:28
just fell into place right as they do
3:32
and so after that first 8-week course
3:35
you take a second 8we course and um they
3:40
also ask if you're going to do teacher
3:42
training that you've done at least two
3:45
five to 7 Day silent Retreats when she
3:48
told me silent Retreat I was like the
3:51
whole time you don't talk at all right
3:53
by yourself in your own mind in the own
3:55
spinning like the the the chaos that
3:58
exists in my mind I I couldn't have
4:00
imagined at the time doing that to
4:03
myself and I think that you're you've
4:07
been so inspirational to me uh because
4:10
of your experience and your cander and
4:12
sharing with me so tell us tell us what
4:14
a silent retreat's like so um a silent
4:17
Retreat is is so amazing at least for me
4:20
because what you do is is you get there
4:22
and you actually silent for the whole
4:25
seven days there might be a couple of
4:27
times where you talk because you also um
4:30
work in service with the other people at
4:32
Retreat so you help with like cleaning
4:34
up the tables or or or anything like
4:36
that but it's all it's always just um
4:40
very quiet very need to know and you
4:42
also um don't necessarily have a lot of
4:45
eye contct which was very interesting
4:47
for me because um as a counselor there's
4:50
a lot I see so to have um a break from
4:55
that that that's kind of a requirement
4:58
really helped me to regulate so very
5:01
intentional communication very
5:03
intentional exchanges in that space that
5:06
you were in right can you can you tell
5:09
us a little bit about for example John
5:12
kabat zin's work with his influence and
5:15
and bringing mbsr and and meditation to
5:18
Western culture and what makes him
5:20
different okay so um John kbet Zen
5:23
started what what looks like mbsr now
5:26
back in 19 um 79 so about 4 four years
5:30
ago and he he started working with the
5:33
um University of Massachusetts Medical
5:36
Center because he noticed that there
5:38
were there was a lot of people with
5:41
stress and pain and heart conditions
5:44
that weren't getting better right right
5:46
that we still really suffering so he
5:48
started the mbsr course to help these
5:52
people
5:53
learn that they have much more control
5:58
than they think right and so he
6:00
developed this program and since he
6:03
developed it it's been researched about
6:07
how effective it is and how helpful it
6:10
is for people um so there's research
6:13
there's lots of um anecdotal information
6:16
about it as well and what it does is it
6:19
helps
6:20
people
6:22
become enhance their awareness moment to
6:26
moment right without judgment right
6:28
because people get we all get into a
6:30
very habitual patterns that aren't
6:33
always healthy for us and we're not
6:36
connected right we're not you know we're
6:37
not connected to our bodies and so many
6:41
of of us as humans are walking around as
6:44
human doings not human beings and it
6:46
wasn't what we were meant for and I know
6:49
that as a therapist with our EMDR
6:51
therapy so much of it has to do with
6:53
dropping back into the present moment
6:55
awareness and in and being in your body
6:58
and recognizing when something happens
7:01
that creates a reaction in you that you
7:03
notice your heart racing or your muscles
7:06
tightening or the the hands clenching or
7:09
things that happen in our bodies that
7:11
that are autonomic and that we don't
7:13
plan for I love that meditation brings
7:17
people back into that awareness of their
7:18
bodies and it's ever so needed
7:22
especially in this day and age with all
7:24
of our distractions and the speed at
7:26
which we're being required to move
7:29
through the world so right it takes us
7:32
kind of out of that trance State and the
7:35
thing that that that I think is a big
7:37
misconception with meditation and
7:40
mindfulness is that people say well I've
7:42
tried it and I haven't been successful
7:44
because I can't get my mind to calm
7:45
what's
7:46
success and and of course you can't get
7:49
your mind to calm because Minds don't
7:51
calm I mean that's not what Minds do
7:54
that not what meditation does right it's
7:57
about that moment to moment awareness
7:59
Ness and our thoughts are going to move
8:01
us away all the time right and the thing
8:05
that happens in meditation is that you
8:08
realize that your thoughts have moved
8:10
away and you bring them back without
8:13
judgment right and it's that bringing
8:16
them back without judgment again and
8:18
again and again no matter how long
8:20
you've been meditating you're always
8:21
going to be bringing your thoughts back
8:24
again and again and again and that helps
8:26
to grow gray matter in your brain it
8:29
helps to strengthen the the Vegas nerve
8:33
tell us about the Vegas nerve so the
8:35
Vegas nerve is a nerve that runs from
8:37
our brain all the way down our back so
8:39
it's it's it touches everything right
8:42
and so they've done research on
8:45
meditators that by paying attention to
8:49
the breath which is one of the many
8:51
forms of meditation that you'll learn um
8:53
in an mbsr class helps you to calm right
8:58
and so there are ways just with paying
9:01
attention to your breathing and and
9:03
specific ways of breathing that will
9:05
engage your vegus nerve right which will
9:08
calm down your whole nervous system it
9:11
gives your body that cortisol and
9:14
adrenal vacation yeah in such a in such
9:17
an easy uh moment and a simple practice
9:22
when there are not expectations about
9:24
outcome how many times have you heard a
9:25
client go I can't meditate I'm not good
9:27
at it right right and what is good at it
9:30
what is good at it and and I think and I
9:33
think the good thing to know is that
9:34
it's a practice right you're not going
9:36
to sit down and meditate the first time
9:40
and be like oh I've got this right we we
9:42
practice it right and you know I'm in
9:45
practicing for a long time and there are
9:46
times I don't do it well and there are
9:48
times that I do it well you say when I
9:51
don't do it well or I do it well
9:52
differentiate for us what does that mean
9:55
to you so and and actually as I say that
9:58
I think well that's that's probably not
9:59
the right wording fix it tell me right
10:01
so the word so so meditation is a
10:05
practice right and and in a perfect
10:08
world I would have all the time to
10:11
meditate and I don't and that's okay
10:14
because the time I take to meditate is
10:17
is the best time right so I have a
10:20
teacher who says you know the only bad
10:22
meditation is the one you don't do right
10:24
so it's just about feeling your
10:28
importance and taking that time to
10:30
feeling your presence in the world yeah
10:33
and just your space that you hold and
10:34
you can ground in yeah how has formal
10:37
meditation practice changed your life
10:39
and your probably your brain what I mean
10:41
we we know research shows actually that
10:44
there are three ways we can actually
10:45
physically change the physiology of our
10:47
brain one is EMDR therapy one is
10:50
meditation and one is Yoga so it's all
10:52
about this
10:54
mindful Mind Body
10:57
Connection physically ch es if we saw
10:59
spec scans before and after someone
11:02
practiced those things we would see
11:04
significant clinical difference in those
11:07
pictures and so I always recommend that
11:09
clients do meditation in conjunction
11:12
with our EMDR therapy but what I
11:15
recognize was in my earlier career some
11:18
hypocrisy with that because I wasn't
11:20
practicing what I was preaching well so
11:22
so and and you're a perfect example if
11:25
you don't mind me going this way because
11:28
you have of the busiest brains of anyone
11:30
I know and I remember initially when I
11:33
told you I was going to go on a silent
11:34
Retreat and you were like no no no no
11:37
way and then you finally decided to do
11:39
it and you were lucky enough to do a
11:41
retreat with John kabin Den so so what
11:45
was that like for you to learn to be
11:48
with all of those thoughts and what I
11:50
know is that you've also continued your
11:52
meditation since then so tell me a
11:54
little bit about that so it's funny I
11:58
really encourage enourage people to lean
11:59
into the discomfort and I am an expert
12:02
at being a human doing and busying
12:04
myself so much that I can stay right out
12:07
of my body for for weeks at a time if
12:09
I'm not careful and and it's it's had
12:13
its purpose but it also it costs me a
12:16
lot to not be present and and to have my
12:19
brain be so fast I have a pretty extreme
12:21
case of ADHD and it's just it's hot my
12:24
brain is hot I have scans to to prove it
12:27
and uh so when we were my husband and I
12:29
were talking about the thing we were
12:30
going to do that year for our own
12:33
personal growth and our connection and
12:35
everything else we decided we were going
12:36
to go to a Meditation Retreat and John
12:38
kabat Zen was still doing them in fact I
12:40
think he still does uh you know once in
12:41
a while and I thought I got to go there
12:44
if we're going to do it and just signing
12:48
up made me
12:50
cry because I thought how am I going to
12:53
be still in my own brain for 7 days that
12:57
there there is no way I want to be that
12:58
that close to the business of my chaotic
13:01
brain for that long and so of course
13:03
that's what tells me then this is
13:04
exactly what you need to go do because
13:06
if you're that scared of something you
13:07
need to lean into it so a little bit
13:10
about that um so we go it's beautiful it
13:14
was at the rinck in uh Northern New
13:17
York not quite Upstate but you know
13:19
north of Manhattan and it was a
13:21
beautiful setting it was uh very
13:25
simplistic you know uh place but perfect
13:28
perfect because all of the outside world
13:31
was away our phones were off and put
13:33
away and I remember I'm a very good
13:37
student I can follow the directions and
13:38
I thought I'll fake it till I make it
13:40
but I'm going to just do everything they
13:42
say and it took until about the third
13:44
day and we're talking we're meditating
13:46
from 6:30 or 7: in the morning until 99
13:49
and 10 at night with just breaks to eat
13:51
and walk around and these meditations
13:53
were both sitting and walking and lying
13:55
and all kinds of different meditations
13:57
uh and I remember
14:00
by the third day I was doing a walking
14:02
meditation and something shifted in me
14:04
that I had never felt before that was
14:07
akin to
14:08
Euphoria and I remember like just this
14:11
settling that I've never experienced in
14:13
my own brain and body and after when we
14:16
were at lunch I told I told Pat I was
14:19
like something happened to me today that
14:21
I've never felt before and I could cry
14:25
um it was so welcome mhm
14:29
yeah it was so welcome cuz cuz that
14:33
day um I
14:36
knew that I could be in my
14:38
mind and I liked what I
14:42
saw yeah yeah and I never slowed down
14:46
enough yeah you know to know that right
14:49
and that's you can tell that this is an
14:51
impactful experience if you choose to do
14:53
it for yourself because and it's it's
14:56
just so powerful when you adopt it and
14:58
you Just Surrender right and you don't
15:01
even have to do a a 5-day silent Retreat
15:05
I mean that's that's part of the
15:06
training but but the mbsr class has um a
15:09
full day silent Retreat right so it's
15:12
like eight hours um where you know I
15:15
work with students and that's always the
15:18
day people are like struggling or or
15:21
having trouble with it or it's not
15:23
making sense to them and when they come
15:26
back from the full day they're just
15:29
amazing they're just like oh it all
15:32
makes sense because what happens is
15:35
they're able to settle right they're
15:37
able to be friends with their minds
15:39
they're able to be friends with their
15:41
body they're able to understand that
15:44
they have that space between reacting
15:48
and responding which is something that
15:51
that we talk about in EMDR and in yoga
15:54
and it's all about
15:55
increasing right it's increasing that
15:57
space and the space is Nan seconds but
16:01
to have the felt sense belief that you
16:05
can get yourself there it's so
16:07
empowering it's so it it was it was like
16:12
lifechanging and I knew that this was
16:14
going to be the Difference Maker I've
16:16
done so much EMDR therapy over the years
16:18
in my own work and and I just wanted to
16:22
up the auntie and I wanted to do
16:24
something that would require me better
16:26
self-care that I could put in my C
16:28
calendar and they talk they talked about
16:30
that at the retreat you know like this
16:32
this will go away if you don't practice
16:33
you know you have to practice this and
16:36
whether it's 3 minutes or whether it's
16:37
30 minutes a day you deserve to practice
16:40
this quiet space in your own mind and I
16:44
I can feel on the days that I don't just
16:47
slow down even if for 10 minutes which I
16:49
I tend to do between 10 and 30 minutes
16:51
each morning before I touch my phone
16:53
before I do anything else uh because I
16:55
know that once I get moving I'm off to
16:57
the races and and it's a it's a low
16:59
likelihood that I'm going to slow back
17:00
down enough to get into that space so I
17:04
I it's it's changed my life for sure and
17:07
I've even had feedback from colleagues
17:09
and mentors that have said something's
17:11
different about you MH there's there's a
17:14
such a less of a phenetic energy about
17:17
my need to move through the world that I
17:19
am so grateful for yeah so I want to ask
17:24
you for those listeners who have
17:26
concerns because they are religious and
17:30
they do not want to do anything that
17:32
could negatively impact their
17:34
spirituality or their faith um tell me a
17:36
little bit about someone who's a who's a
17:38
Believer and might be a little bit
17:41
reluctant or scared to become a
17:43
meditator so what I want to say to those
17:46
people of faith is that they in some way
17:49
already are meditators because they have
17:51
that quiet time with their god with with
17:55
whoever there are and and mindfulness B
17:58
stress reduction is not religious in any
18:01
way it's it's very secular it's just
18:03
about teaching us to connect with
18:06
ourselves right to be able to understand
18:08
what's happening in our body to
18:10
understand what what's happening um in
18:13
our reactions right and and there's
18:16
there's no religious bent to it at all
18:19
and again for for if anything it's it's
18:22
the proof of the biology of humanity
18:24
it's the it's so science-based and
18:27
there's so much evidence about the
18:29
physiology of our bodies when we slow
18:31
down that that is backed now in the
18:33
medical community thanks to John kabat
18:35
Zen and his research and bringing it to
18:37
what Eastern cultures knew forever
18:40
finally you know it becomes more
18:42
commonplace and known and respected in
18:44
in Western cultures because there's the
18:46
science that talks about the body now
18:47
yeah and and I and you know mbsr is is
18:51
is really science-based you know and
18:53
it's based on Research it's not it's not
18:56
affiliated with with any Rel religious
18:58
beliefs so there's no uncomfortable
19:01
connection with being able to be calm in
19:05
yourself and be solid with your
19:07
spirituality right that congruence of
19:10
closer to myself actually in most faiths
19:13
brings me closer to God yes and so I
19:16
think that there's a beautiful um you
19:19
know a beautiful part of that connection
19:22
to slow down and be more present in self
19:24
yeah very cool well Julie thank you so
19:27
much for taking this time to discuss
19:28
this really important in my words or in
19:31
my um experience life-changing topic uh
19:34
I appreciate all that you have done to
19:36
become another gifted teacher in the
19:38
world for this concept and idea bringing
19:41
this to others um we offer you know she
19:44
offers mindfulness-based stress
19:45
reduction courses so you can see the
19:47
link below these are things that you can
19:49
do with with us here at infinite uh
19:52
either in person or hybrid so see the
19:55
link below if you'd like to be in this
19:57
this most uh recent Rec class or this
19:59
next class but hopefully you learned a
20:01
little bit about the importance of
20:02
meditation about slowing down about
20:05
taking the time to get more present and
20:07
grounded with self it serves our mind it
20:10
serves our body it'll improve
20:12
relationships when we can slow down and
20:14
be more present and connected it
20:16
improves our health and so for all those
20:19
reasons I hope you challenge yourself to
20:21
give it a try and um a little bit is
20:25
better than none and it's always about
20:27
progress not per infection and it is a
20:29
practice so every day is going to look
20:31
different in your meditation experience
20:33
so hopefully you give it a shot if you'd
20:36
like to learn more you can visit us at
20:38
our website again at the link below and
20:41
otherwise thank you so much for being
20:43
with us today I hope that you lead with
20:45
love it'll never steer you
20:48
[Music]
20:57
wrong
20:58
[Music]
21:06
you
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