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Where does Labour's 'doom loop' lead to? LBC Callers discuss
Sep 29, 2025
Can Labour put a stop to its ‘doom loop’ as new polling reveals Nigel Farage is on his way to becoming the next Prime Minister? Ali Miraj spoke to LBC callers to get their view: 0:00 | Jason: ‘Nobody can pull us out of this mess’ 5:01 | John: ‘A revolution is on the way’ 8:55 | Robert: ’Starmer isn’t a Cameron or Blair’ 13:30 | Karen: ‘Labour have crushed the aspirations of working people’ Keir Starmer is also vulnerable to a leadership challenge from Manchester Mayor Andy Burnham. According to exclusive LBC polling, if there was a General Election today, Farage’s Reform would win 293 seats, Labour would win 191 seats, the Liberal Democrats would win 63 seats, the Conservatives would win 42 seats, the SNP would win 30 seats and the Greens would win six seats. The polling also finds 13 Cabinet ministers would lose their seats to Reform UK, including the Chancellor Rachel Reeves, the Foreign Secretary Yvette Cooper, the Chief Secretary to the Prime Minister Darren Jones, the Defence Secretary John Healey and the Education Secretary Bridget Phillipson. It also found that in 92% of constituencies, more people feel worse off than better or the same as last year. Listen to the full show on the all-new LBC App: https://app.af.lbc.co.uk/btnc/thenewlbcapp #alimiraj #ukpolitics #uknews #starmer #debate #LBC
View Video Transcript
0:00
Sakhir Starmer is in a totally impossible position
0:04
Since he's come into power, the press, which mostly leans to the right
0:09
and to be honest, I've always voted Tory, have been on his neck, on his tail
0:16
And his party is basically a party of protest groups, most of which, as I said to your producer
0:27
they've never run in, you know, like, they've all worked in their little bubbles
0:32
and they all want their little thing and they're all screaming he's done some very, very good work
0:39
that hasn't been promoted nobody in the world would be able to
0:45
pull this country out of its current mess what's he done good, Jason
0:52
the workers rights thing, increasing salary have both been very, very good. He's made
1:01
deals back with Europe so that there's more access. He's worked very
1:07
well with Donald Trump, which is no great. Fair play. You can't do everything in 14 months
1:16
Jason, do you... This is a 10-year project. Do you think we're too impatient
1:21
genuinely? Because I think... You're right, go on. Yes, we are too impatient
1:26
Everybody wants... This is, you know, a TikTok generation, even I'm 60
1:31
and even I sort of sit there scrolling. Everybody wants everything done in five minutes
1:36
And it takes 14 months to get something through Parliament. You know, they got rid of the Rwanda scheme
1:44
Fine. It was a bit weird, and they were never going to take many people
1:48
They've just managed to agree something with France, which after telling drugs how horrible they have been for years
1:56
that was a major thing and it's going to take time. It's going to make no difference to small boats
2:01
Come on, Jason. I mean, that's a nightclub bouncer policy, one in one out
2:05
Oh, come on. Even the people smugglers have said you're going to have to return 20,000 people
2:10
to make us actually, what was it, 2,000 people a day or whatever
2:14
I can't remember, but whatever. It is a start of a process. We take less migrants than most other countries in Europe
2:23
and we still have an awful lot of space. I'm not saying that I would particularly want millions more people coming into the country
2:32
I really understand why people don't like social change, but as I live in London, it's never been an issue with me
2:40
I mean, where I live, it's like, you know, ridiculous. He needs time
2:46
OK, Jason, let me ask you a more fundamental question. Do you think that now is the time for the Labour Party in government
2:54
to do a screeching handbrake turn to the left? No. Why? Because they'll lose the next election
3:02
But the problem is that the vast majority of their MPs only got behind Starmer because they thought it would get them into power
3:11
Now you've got the Andy Burnhams of this world all jumping on, all wanted to sort of..
3:17
It's like the Tony Blair. He got them into power, and the second he was in
3:22
they started biting his back. You know, they started to complain about him
3:28
And the problem is that most of them have no concept on how to run a country
3:33
Even Andy Burnham, within days, was, like, talking about ignoring the bond market
3:39
Well, indeed. You ignore people that owe you all that money to. Well, indeed. Well, I said yesterday that that was economically illiterate
3:45
A lot of people got very, very upset about it because it absolutely, patently is
3:49
Jason, look, I don't know what the answer is for Starmer, but I think he's got to make some choices
3:53
If he wants to go leftwards, now's the time to do it because you hear John McDonnell talking about a wealth tax
3:58
you hear Andy Burnham doing the same, and you also hear a bunch of Labour MPs
4:02
and this is the front page story in The Telegraph today Labour ministers begging Reeves to unleash public spending I mean they want her to open the coffers They don want austerity Mark too And I just wonder if he wants to do it he should do it now
4:15
And then he's going to have to get the tax from somewhere, probably the middle class, and squeeze them to the hilt. If he doesn't want to do it, he's going to have to come up
4:21
with an alternative prescription that people can get behind. But I don't think that's going to placate his supporters
4:26
There are alternative ways to get money in, the little wealth tax
4:30
well I agree with that but he's handed himself in you could open up the pension funds
4:36
and allow them to invest more well Jason the simplest thing to do
4:40
which is what I would have done if I was him and I'm not a tax raiser
4:43
but even I can understand that we're in a dire situation income tax would have been a very simple
4:48
straightforward way of doing it he's ruled that out again this morning
4:52
he's ruled it out saying the manifesto commitments we made will be adhered to
4:56
now that has hemmed him in but we'll see what happens Jason very good to speak to you thank you
5:00
The short answer, no, they can't. Because I know you know this
5:06
but you don't hear it from many of the presenters in LBC or in the mainstream media
5:13
There is a political revolution underway. This is not politics as usual
5:20
And in all honesty, I believe it will be all over by next May. Really? I mean, are you in the Nigel Farage camp
5:28
I mean, that's even one year before Nigel Farage thinks it will happen. He thinks it was going to happen in 2027, didn't he
5:34
Yeah, well, I believe that too. But when I say next May, I mean that'll be the catalyst for the 2027
5:39
I see what you mean. So if they don't do well in the local elections and in the Scottish and Welsh elections
5:44
that's going to be the catalyst, is it? Ali, they're not going to do well in them
5:48
They're going to get annihilated, especially in Wales. Can you imagine? Yeah, well..
5:54
The newspapers, the front pages of newspapers when Labour are absolutely wiped out in Wales
6:01
Well, I think that is the moment of maximum danger for Keir Starmer and he has to turn things around before then
6:06
But do you think, to the point that I was just having a conversation with Jason about, John, I mean, it's only been 14 months
6:12
I mean, we've had 14 years of woeful, inadequate delivery or lack of it, you could say, from the previous lot
6:18
I mean, you've got to give them a bit of a chance, haven't you? I used the term revolution for a reason
6:25
it's fast becoming the people represented by Reform UK against the establishment
6:35
which is represented by the legacy party, Labour and Conservative. And what we're seeing is just an extension of the legacy party
6:44
an extension of the 14 years. Do you think it's too fundamental, therefore
6:48
because this argument that you're making, John, has been made by other people who have now observed
6:53
that not only in this country but in many others around the world, the liberal, centrist, progressive movement
7:01
call it what you will, sensible Tories, sensible Labour people, Lib Dems chucked in the mix
7:07
all basically different sides of the same coin, and that is just simply not going to hold
7:12
The centre is not going to hold. People are moving towards the outer bounds
7:17
and one of those outer bounds is reform. Is that what you think is going to happen here? That is exactly what's going to happen
7:23
And I'm surprised that the media haven't picked up that there is a turquoise revolution underway
7:29
Well, if there is, if there is, John, and you may well be right, what would your advice be this weekend to Sir Keir Starmer
7:37
who is fighting for his political life? My advice to him is not to bother
7:44
He can save himself a lot of time, a lot of energy, and the Labour Party a lot of money if they just give up
7:53
Do you think you should just go back to the bar? Yeah, because, like, next May, it will become clear
8:04
I know now it may not be that clear, but come next May, the results of the elections next May
8:10
it will become clear to everyone And media are behind the curve on this Ali Well look I think that there are definitely shifts occurring which is exactly why you see that reform UK apparently according to
8:23
an article out today is on course to win a majority of the next election according to a
8:28
poll that predicts Labour is heading for the worst electoral defeats since 1931 with fewer than a
8:32
hundred seats. This is conducted by the think tank More In Common poll of almost 20,000 voters and
8:39
Luke Trill, very sensible individual, Luke Trill, friend of the programme and director of More in Common
8:43
said, and I quote, Nigel Farage has completely upended the political map of Britain
8:47
But we're not talking about Farage today, we're talking about the Labour Party. And the Labour Party has got to do something in response to that
8:53
John, very good to speak to you. I think it's going to be very difficult for Labour to turn it around
8:57
unless they have a robust way forward. I did 45 years in the military and we had three types of leaders
9:06
One was an autocratic, which wasn't very good. One was a bimbler that just listened to everyone
9:12
and the other one that consulted and made a good decision based on experience
9:16
Which one, Starmer? And then I think he's one that's in the middle
9:22
He did this. He consults and then takes whatever is the strongest opinion against him
9:28
He doesn't listen and then make his own decision. And the other thing which was critical was that you have people that do policy very well
9:36
and you do people that do people very well. There's very few leaders that do both very well
9:42
That's a good point. That's a really interesting point. And I think Starmer is a policy person
9:47
and all the other great leaders have the ability to do both
9:52
Even if you've got Cameron, Blair, they have the ability. And also the government, I think
9:57
if you look at Angela Raja, David Lammy, they all fall back to what they're used to
10:04
So there's no experience on the economy. Angela Rayner fell back to the unions
10:11
David Lammy fell back to Chagos Islands. Keir Starmer fell back to policy
10:18
So there's not that broad experience that you had previously. But Robert, I understand your point about the three types of leadership that you mentioned
10:26
and you mentioned the fact that you think that he is one of these bumblers in the middle
10:32
who consults and dithers and all the rest of it. And he's more focused on policy than people
10:36
I don't really mind if he's focused on policy and is a technocrat. At least be a decent technocrat and go and do something
10:42
At the moment, the problem is, on your dithering point, Robert, I'm a bit confused about whether he wants to unleash welfare
10:49
or do the two-child benefit cap and scrap it, or whether he's trying to curb welfare
10:53
I don't know where he is at the moment. Yeah. And the three things that he's picked up on, which is security, economics, and the third one, which was immigration
11:07
Who gave him that advice a couple of weeks ago? That's the exactly three things that Trump said
11:13
I mean, that's an interesting point. Let me ask you this, Robert, because you see
11:18
Starmer, I think, showed that he understands the gravity of the situation the country faces
11:25
economically, certainly. Socially, I think we've got deep, deep, profound problems as well on cohesion at the moment
11:31
But let's just stick with the economics for a second. On the welfare reform side of things, I think he understood that we need to get more people
11:38
into work. We can't be going on with this pip at the level that we have. He tried to do something about it, and he completely had his legs cut from under him
11:46
by his own backbenches. Was that a failure to sell a vision
11:50
Was it a failure to bring people and roll the pitch? What was it
11:54
Because I think he was on to something there, but heaven knows what's going to happen to welfare reform now
11:59
Yeah, what it was, you make a decision and stick by it. But he can't do it if he can't get the votes from his own party
12:05
to get it through Parliament. He's got to persuade them. He's got to win the argument
12:11
But you've still got to have that vision. And I think it's just the way that they've handled the demonstrations
12:17
how they've placed both demonstrations, and I not getting into left or right I think it the pensions And I agree with you I think child benefit I think I an old age pensioner myself and PIP should go to the most deserved
12:32
I think if you're on, you know, £1,000 a year, you shouldn't get to high benefit. Why isn't he talking about things
12:37
for example, like scrapping the triple lock on pensions? I know that pensioners vote
12:42
and this is partly, look, young people out there, if you're listening, you really need to start voting, right
12:47
Because you're going to be always disenfranchised unless you get off your backside and go to the ballot box, right
12:52
So why is he not talking about pension reform? Because we need to look at the triple lock very carefully
12:58
and many other things if we're going to balance the books here. Yeah, well, it's courage, isn't it
13:02
And the reason reform are in this position is because the left come out with the policies on immigration
13:10
The left always tried to stop the planes. You know, it's clear, you know, money on the hotels
13:16
Money about the hotels is a bit of a red herring, because that's just coming out of the foreign aid budget
13:22
Well, indeed. And look, the left is making the running at the moment
13:25
in terms of the argument. How he's going to respond, we'll find out, I guess, over the next couple of days. Robert, thank you
13:30
Karen Chippenham. Good afternoon, Karen. Good afternoon, Ali. Hello. Well, I think it would be true to say that the Labour Party
13:36
especially the current one under Keir Starmer and Rachel Reeves, it's no longer the party of the trade unions
13:42
It's no longer the party of working classes. it's not the party of small and medium-sized businesses or the party of small family farms
13:49
and it's neither is it the party of fairness and opportunity for the less privileged and the
13:54
disadvantages and for years and governments including the the current one they've crushed
14:00
the aspirations of working people they've crushed the aspirations of young people who can't afford
14:04
to get on the housing ladder they've crushed the aspirations of young people who've worked really
14:09
hard for qualifications and paid a lot of money in their university tuition fees but then
14:14
often can't get secure jobs and careers that they can really dedicate themselves to
14:18
and be really, really passionate about. And, you know, I'm reminded, and we listened to the General Secretary of the Unite Union earlier today
14:27
but about three decades ago, and after Tony Blair became leader of the Labour Party
14:32
possibly even the first conference after they came to power, I can't remember, but I remember a BBC News clip of Rodney Bickerstaff
14:40
who was then General Secretary of the Unite Union, on the stage of the conference giving a speech
14:45
really standing up for working people and the underprivileged. And he said that the current, possibly they weren't in government by then
14:53
he said the government, all they're doing is promising jam tomorrow. And the BBC cameras, they panned across to Neil Kinnock
15:00
and his wife actually in the audience, who ever so angrily were shaking their heads and disagreeing with Rodney Bickerstaff
15:05
But all these, practically three decades later, I'm so angry and upset about this
15:10
All this time later, this Labour government, they're still promising jam tomorrow
15:15
But we know they're never going to fulfil that promise. And meanwhile, on Friday, Starmer, he thought he could solve all the problems of government by introducing this digital ID system
15:26
Yeah, I know. We talked about it yesterday. Well, that's rubbish. I mean, it's a small number of illegal immigrants compared to the total number of immigrants into this country
15:35
So I'd like to know how many billions of pounds or even tens of billions of pounds
15:39
are going to be spent on the system, you know, to solve just one problem
15:43
Karen, please don't ask obvious questions like how much it's going to cost them, whether we've got the money to do it
15:47
I mean, this is just too obvious a question to ask, Karen. I mean, no one in government clearly has thought about this
15:52
I mean, we've got 2.7 trillion of public debt. I mean, let me just read you
15:56
the front page of The Economist this week, The Economist newspaper. Britain is slowly going bust
16:01
And according to one leading hedge fund manager, He says the country is in a debt doom loop
16:06
I mean, the problem is with all this spending. And I understand the point, Karen, that you're making
16:10
A lot of people on the left are making about, you know, wanting to give people a better life and all of it
16:14
I get it. But then you have to work out where the money is going to come from to do it
16:18
If that's going to be a wealth tax, come out and say it. If it's going to be increasing income tax and you're going to renege on your commitments
16:24
that you made in the manifesto, do that too. But we can't square the circle as we are
16:28
We need some honesty and some transparency. And we need it fast. Karen, thank you for your call
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