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'The French are laughing at us' LBC callers react to the immigration debate
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Jul 9, 2025
Nick Ferrari is joined by Richard Tice, Deputy Leader of Reform UK and Gerald Knaus, founding chairman of the European Stability Initiative to discuss the UK immigration debate, before opening the phone lines to get listeners' reactions. 0:01 | King Charles' statement on shared threats and borders. 0:20 | Tice's view on the UK's border situation and Channel crossings. 0:58 | A critical look at the "one in, one out" migration proposal. 1:35 | Tice outlines a firm approach for the Prime Minister with President Macron. 2:48 | Discussion on why Nigel Farage was excluded from meetings with President Macron. 3:58 | Gerald Knaus explains the EU's interest in controlling irregular migration. 4:28 | Knaus details a strategy to deter illegal border crossings. 5:33 | Neil from Croydon says Nick is lying on live radio. 10:51 | Steve from Stockport suggests tariffs on French goods in response to migration. UK Prime Minister Keir Starmer is facing a fight to salvage his deal with France to return illegal migrants and halt the increasing crossings of small boats across the English Channel. With Emmanuel Macron in the UK for a three-day state visit, there are concerns the prime minister’s “one in, one out” agreement is close to collapse. Listen to the full show on the all-new LBC App: https://app.af.lbc.co.uk/btnc/thenewlbcapp #nickferrari #ukimmigration #ukpolitics #LBC
View Video Transcript
0:00
Mr Types, we understand that later today at Windsor Castle, the King is going to say, of the United Kingdom and France
0:05
I quote, our two countries face a multitude of complex threats emanating from multiple directions
0:10
These challenges know no borders, no fortress can protect us against them this time
0:15
Is the King right? Good morning. Good morning. Well, I think tens of millions of British people would wish that there are borders
0:22
That's the whole point of sovereignty, of being an independent nation. That's the whole point of Brexit
0:28
So the King has gone soft on this then, Mr Tice, hasn't he? He says there are no borders
0:32
Well, there should be borders, but regrettably, there are no borders at the moment
0:37
You've just been talking about how 20,000 illegal migrants have crossed the channel just this year
0:43
And it seems that the more money we send to the French, the more migrants they send in return
0:48
Where's the performance-related link between the two? If the migrants stop, then maybe we send you some money
0:54
But at the moment, this situation is getting far worse. And as for this one-in-one-out, ludicrous proposal, you know exactly what's going to happen
1:04
There's going to be a surge in criminal faking of so-called relationships with long-lost aunts and uncles by people crossing the Channel
1:14
And many of those who are currently here will also all of a sudden discover all sorts of historic family relationships with people here
1:22
This is a ludicrous proposal that should be shoved in the dustbin
1:26
What line should the Prime Minister be taking with President Macron later today, Mr Tice
1:31
Well, first of all, Nigel Farage is clearly very disappointed not to be given the same opportunity to meet President Macron
1:38
that Kemi Badenok and Ed Davey are being given, because what the Prime Minister should be saying is what we're saying
1:45
which is, Monsieur President, either you stop the migrant boats or we'll stop your fishing boats
1:51
It's a very simple message, and all of a sudden you'd have French fishermen clogging up the Champs-Élysées
1:58
and this issue would possibly stop. We need some proper negotiating leverage
2:03
Is that what is known as the Entente Cordiale, Mr. Tice, that we suddenly stop their fishing vessels
2:09
Well, at the end of the day, you can be a critical friend, and that's what we need to do
2:13
because at the moment, frankly, the French authorities, the gendarmes, they're having a laugh
2:20
I mean, we send them the money, they give the French gendarme fishing lessons, and the old Stanley knife, that just purely for the BBC's viewing figures, they sort of put one knife into one boat
2:35
I mean, the whole thing is outrageous, and the British people know it
2:39
And what we should be doing is we should be saying to the French, you have a legal obligation under the 1982 UN Convention of the Law of the Sea to pick up and take back
2:48
that Belgian authorities are doing it and the boats stop coming from Belgium. French domestic law also requires them to do it, but they're refusing to do it
2:56
Lastly, what do you imagine or why do you imagine that President Macron will not be meeting
3:01
As you rightly point out he meeting with Sir Keir Starmer Sir Ed Davey and Kemi Badenow Why not Nigel Farage Well it should be because clearly we polling way ahead of all of those other parties
3:13
I think it's because the establishment here know that Nigel would just tell it as it is
3:19
and would make it very clear to President Macron that this crisis has to stop
3:24
And when we get into power after the next general election, we will stop it
3:28
Listening to that is Gerald Knauss, who's founding chairman of the European Stability Initiative
3:32
and a founding member of the European Council on Foreign Relations. And he joins us from Berlin
3:36
Thank you very much for coming on, Ms. Knauss. What do you want to see the mood or the tone set between our Prime Minister and the French President today
3:43
Good morning. Good morning. Good morning from Berlin. Well, listen, I think the realistic proposal here is an ambitious one
3:50
that recognizes that it is in the interest of the European Union
3:54
to demonstrate that you can control irregular migration. The European Union has a problem with people leaving Senegal for Spain or coming across the central Mediterranean
4:04
And to prove in the channel that you can stop the smugglers and make the crossing meaningless through cooperation is important
4:14
not just for British EU or British-French relations. It's also important to demonstrate how in the future elsewhere migration, irregular migration that is often deadly and very often inhumane
4:27
can be stopped. So it's something the EU should do in its own interest
4:32
And I see that debate changing in Europe in this direction. So how does that cooperation look
4:37
What does it look like in practical terms? The key point is to make it meaningless to get into a boat
4:43
This has been the secret of success when in the Aegean in 2016
4:49
the EU and Turkey agreed and the numbers fell to 3% within a few weeks
4:52
because there was a cut of date at that time 18th of March 2016
4:57
and the message was anybody after that date that process will be processed with an inadmissibility
5:04
will be checked individually but can be sent back and Turkey agreed to take them. So I think the key
5:09
will be the message. If France and Britain can send a message
5:13
that they are determined this summer and I don't think it needs to take long
5:17
In the case of Turkey the fall in numbers was very quick but where
5:21
your previous interview partner was wrong is you can only do that if both sides have an incentive
5:27
So the French or other European countries participating need to see that this is often in their interest
5:33
Good morning, Nick. I do listen to your show sometimes, and sometimes I quite enjoy it
5:38
but I don't enjoy it when you give completely false information over the live radio, Nick
5:43
Where have you managed to find that apparently illegal immigrants get given mobile phones
5:49
That would be the case of Ahmed Ibid, who was convicted in May
5:53
He was supposedly a penniless Egyptian fisherman who came here, was given a council flat, a mobile phone
5:59
and within a month had organised the first of the people trafficking gangs that, upon conviction
6:03
he'd arranged for 3,800 people to illegally cross the channel. Okay, so you've said one
6:09
Well You said one and I pretty sure you know the numbers of how many people He one of many I don have all their names So how many of Neil I don No hold on You asked for where I got it from The court was told it was shown in court
6:21
he will be one of many. You asked, there's one? I mean, I haven't got all their names
6:25
Of course I haven't. So, on the basis of one person, you say that all..
6:30
No, I just said there will be many more, Neil. There will be..
6:34
It is a heck of a draw that you come here, You get, in his case, council accommodation and a phone
6:40
And he arranged for 3,800 people. Check out the case, Ahmed Ibbid
6:45
Have a look at it. And he's not the only one. That's one person. No, you keep saying that
6:50
Of course it's one person, but it speaks to the abuse. As in many instances, that speaks to the abuse that is available
6:56
Of course I can't give you all their names, Neil. And I think it's a little bit strange that you expect I can reel off all their names
7:01
Lastly, come on. Or do it your way. Just do it your way and don't believe that there is
7:06
and we will just continue to see tens of thousands of people come here, some of whom will perish at sea
7:10
Do it your way. But I've not said that, though, have I? Well, I am saying you have to stop the draw
7:15
You have to stop the pull factor. Neil, what are you saying in a sentence? I'm saying that the pull factor is the fact
7:23
that there are all these war-torn countries and people are leaving their war-torn countries
7:28
That's not going to stop it, is it? That's what's happening there. We are where we are. We're not where we might want to be
7:32
without their countries being in some form of disruption or unrest. The thing is, the way I see it is, if you was the French
7:40
they've got all these migrants that have passed their way through the various countries to get to France
7:45
Yeah. And basically, you know, why on earth would you try and stop them coming to the UK
7:52
No reason on earth. No, just help them. Exactly. They want to pass them on
7:58
And I think it's all a bit of a publicity stunt with the dinghy getting slashed just before Macron comes over
8:06
But, you know, it's just laughable that we're actually paying them money
8:11
and they're doing absolutely nothing about it. And the way that it's got to be stopped is by, you know
8:18
the French actually doing what they're being paid for, which I can't ever see that changing
8:23
I think you're right. I have seen, I must admit I didn't see the video
8:27
but I saw the still photographs of someone slashing the boat. It is a publicity stunt
8:31
They won't be doing that last night. They won't be doing it tonight. But you see other things where different people go over and video things
8:41
and you see it where they're actually just watching them go into the water. So just conveniently, the cameras were there
8:49
I think the thing is that everybody is wise to it and everybody sees it now
8:54
and that's the difference where people now are seeing things for exactly what they are, unfortunately
9:01
Lastly, Brett, when the King says when it comes to this there are no borders
9:05
I know the point he's driving it, but I don't think he's quite got the language right
9:09
with the greatest respect to him, of course. What would you say? I mean there borders on every country and there has to be I mean the only thing that you can do really to help as well is to take away any sort of what the word any luxuries
9:31
If people knew they would come in here like anyone else who got into a country illegally, and they were put into a detaining centre or even prison, which I know that might sound extreme, then people will stop
9:43
It's called the pull factor. Brett, and I'm with you on that. I don't know that I'd go so far as putting them in prison
9:49
but no, you're not going to get your mobile phone, you're not going to get any money, and you're going to need a migrant camp
9:54
you're not going to be in a three-star hotel, and I would bring that in this afternoon. Brett, I'm with you on that
9:58
For some time I thought, well, the money should be spent, quite clearly, in putting them up in hotels in France
10:05
Oh, I see. But that won't stop them. Their determination, of course, is to get to the United Kingdom
10:12
But if the pull factor is the hotels and the support they get here
10:16
provide the money that we give to them to buy hotels in France
10:22
And then if they've got hotels in France, it's ridiculous that they're in tents, isn't it
10:28
It is, and it's horrific for them. Again, just a quick word on the king
10:33
Do we have a border, do you think? Well, it lives in an ideal world, doesn't it
10:40
I suppose he does. Steve, thank you. Again, I think I know the point that the king is trying to get across
10:45
that there are no borders here, but we do need to enforce those borders, and surely if we are to find a solution
10:50
that's what this has to be about. Everyone keeps moaning about the immigrants, the poor immigrants
10:54
and they keep saying it's them. They're going to want to come across this country
10:58
to try and earn a living, etc, etc. They're not the problem
11:02
I think the French are. And I think what we should do with the French is put tariffs on them
11:06
I don't know where I've got that idea from, but we should tariff all their food
11:11
their drink, etc, etc. No. Oh, why do we want a trade war, Bert
11:16
Well, the thing is, I know it's a trade war, but we're hurting already
11:20
We're getting nothing from this partnership. We're giving them money to the French
11:25
and the immigrants are still coming across. Then they would almost certainly have the equivalent
11:30
of their border force work to rule at their place in Dover and elsewhere
11:35
so our lorries would be backed up. Never mind through Kent, they would be backed up to the Midlands, wouldn't they, Bert
11:39
Well, yeah, but the thing is, we've got to do something with these characters, and they don't seem to be doing anything at the moment
11:44
And I'm not sure we could come out of some other port, shouldn't we? Well, we could do if we wanted to. Is it not a pull factor, Lassie, but these people, when they get here
11:51
they don't get hotel rooms, they don't get a living allowance, they don't get mobile phones. Isn't that the reality
11:57
What do you mean? Sorry, say it again. The asylum seekers, if they get here, they don't get hotel rooms
12:01
They go to a holding centre somewhere. Yeah, but they smash them up, don't they
12:05
We've had that before. You send them to some military place where they go to
12:11
what they do, they burn it, they smash it up and they start complaining that
12:14
they're not being treated well enough Well maybe then it's the HCR
12:21
and then we just come out of it by the way and then we just take them back but thank you for your views, I'm not sure trade war is the answer
12:27
and I think I know where you've got the idea have yourself a good day
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