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'Raging’ Iain Dale hangs up on LBC caller after Ukraine debate escalates
Apr 4, 2025
Britain and France are drawing up plans to send a "reassurance force" to Ukraine, Sir Keir Starmer has said following the latest round of peace talks. The two countries will send military chiefs to Kyiv as they asses how to keep Ukraine prepared for the future, the Prime Minister said following a summit in Paris this afternoon. Up to 30 countries have been involved at the planning meetings, with "different countries are putting forward different capabilities," Starmer said. Referencing Macron, Starmer added that the "group asked Emmanuel and me to lead the co-ordination of the efforts we have touched on this morning." But Starmer insisted peacekeeping plans were still in motion, saying it was his “long-standing position” that Parliament would have a say when the time comes for deploying British troops. As the country braces for further news, Iain Dale hears the public's stance on the issue, whether he likes it or not. Listen to the full show on Global Player: https://app.af.globalplayer.com/Br0x/LBCYouTubeListenLive #iaindale #ukraine #russia #russiaukrainewar #politics #news #ukpolitics #keirstarmer #emmanuelmacron #debate #peacekeeping #LBC LBC is the home of live debate around news and current affairs in the UK. Join in the conversation and listen at https://www.lbc.co.uk/ Sign up to LBC’s weekly newsletter here: https://l-bc.co/signup
View Video Transcript
0:00
Hello, are you there
0:01
Yeah, I'm here. Hi, how are you? Hi, good. What would you like to say? I mean, I served NATO
0:08
I served straight away with British troops, but I've seen the capability of British troops and Americans
0:17
And I lived in Russia and I lived in Ukraine. And from what I know is, honestly
0:22
there is no point putting British troops and French there because without America, Europe is in trouble
0:31
We all know this. And if you're talking about soldiers going out there
0:36
you remember when British troops were part of NATO in Afghanistan, you've seen how many people come back dead or injured
0:46
It was very, very bad for those guys. But I'm sure the way Americans can look after their veterans
0:52
in this country is not the way they're talking about it. So basically, I think it's better to focus on bringing more work in this country, manufacturing
1:04
And I think what Donald Trump is trying to do to break the marriage between China and Russia
1:09
get Russia out of this and then deal with China alone. So that's what I think
1:16
Well, there's a lot to tackle there. I mean, you may be right on Donald Trump and Russia and China
1:23
I've got absolutely no idea. I doubt whether many people do. I don't really agree with the rest of what you say, because you're essentially saying you made the ogy with Afghanistan
1:38
I mean, if that wasn't a just war for Britain to be involved in, I don't know what was
1:44
Now, you can make all sorts of arguments about what happened at the end of it that made it all seem not worthwhile
1:49
And the hundreds of British service personnel that lost their lives did it for nothing, given the way that we left Afghanistan
1:57
And you know why it didn't come to nothing? Because Americans pulled out
2:01
The Germans wanted to stay there. So basically, all whatever they did, look, I am from Afghanistan, OK
2:07
NATO, with all his power, could not fight with people with no shoes
2:13
only motorcycles in the KK-47. How can they fight against Russians? They could not
2:19
For the last three years, Russians were fighting against all nearly 50, 60 countries
2:26
I don't want to say that Putin was right what he did. Okay
2:31
I'd advise you not to do that, yeah. No, no, I don't want to say what he did, but he's been pushed
2:35
to this because no history no no we've been through this hundreds of times he was not pushed
2:40
to do it he chose to do it he thought he would be able to conquer the ukrainians within three days
2:46
and uh they haven't got any more land really than they had in the first few weeks of the invasion
2:52
so the ukrainians have shown that it is very possible to fight russia but they've need they've
2:58
needed the help to do it okay i think i think russian and the ukrainian been basically pushed under the bus You think what I think Ukraine has been pushed under the bus By whom By all these people that they push the button
3:13
and hope for the best that Russia will collapse, like Yugoslavia, and they change it to 50 countries
3:18
and then they go and then still get every energy and then oil and gas for nothing
3:23
Well, if anybody's pushed Ukraine under the bus, it's Donald Trump. I don't want to talk to Donald Trump
3:30
But what I want to say is that this country, I love this country. I love it. It's 30 years
3:34
It's my home. I work hard. I just want to say that the way the economy is now going, it's bad
3:41
Bad for my children. But you now, you're in a good job
3:44
You get a pension. But who will pay my pension? We have to focus bringing back the manufacturing
3:49
I mean, look, in this country now, they can't make a toothbrush, unfortunately. But it was the nail making all this
3:56
Again, I'm sorry, you're talking absolute rubbish. Britain is still the ninth biggest manufacturing country in the world
4:04
This myth that we don't manufacture anything at the moment is just that, a total and utter myth
4:11
But it's getting poorer and poorer because of all these pushing wars everywhere. Why do we need war
4:16
We need peace, we need harmony. Well, I'll tell you what, you come from Afghanistan. You ought to know very well why sometimes you have to go to war
4:22
I grew up in the war. I grew up in the war, yeah. I know what war that made me
4:25
So therefore, surely you more than anyone ought to understand that sometimes you have to go to war
4:31
to defend the right thing to do. Yeah, but if you have nothing, you have no power, no money, nothing
4:36
What do you do? Oh, for goodness sake. You can't keep the people in this country. We're the sixth richest country in the world
4:41
We're the sixth biggest GDP in the world. The government is now taking money out of pensioners
4:47
out of the sables. Yeah, and that's a choice. To give it to Ukraine
4:53
I've had enough of this. I'm sorry, Aziz. You were completely barking up the wrong tree
4:58
Come in Knightsbridge and see the Ukrainian cars. The number plate of Ukrainian cars. What are you on about now
5:03
Ukrainian cars. What's that got to do with the price of fish? Come in Knightsbridge and Barclay Square
5:08
see the cars that the Ukrainians are driving from all the money that you get from French and others and give it to the people in there for Zelensky
5:14
Oh, my goodness. Goodbye, Aziz. Honestly, you know, this is what I'm saying
5:18
I think it's true. Absolutely pathetic. And Ukraine is the most corrupt country in the world right now
5:22
Absolutely pathetic. 747. This is LBC. 7.49. You know, I'm absolutely raging about Aziz
5:32
I mean, he said he came to this country from Afghanistan 20 years ago
5:37
So basically we rescued him from the Taliban. And yes, he said he loves living in this country
5:43
Well, so he should, because we've given him the freedoms that his own country denied him
5:47
and Aziz should understand that sometimes you have to take to armed conflict to defend freedom
5:55
and I would have thought anybody that comes here from Afghanistan they ought to be the first people
6:00
both to know this and to appreciate it and then those ridiculous things that he said at the end
6:06
of that conversation basically ridiculing the country that has taken him in I mean I sorry Aziz but you made an absolute fool of yourself in that conversation and I think you an absolutely shameful human being
6:18
Let's go to Raj in Manchester. Hello, Raj. Good evening, how are you today
6:22
Are you well? I'm fizzing at the moment, Raj. You entertained that gentleman for way too long
6:27
Way, way too long. Yeah, well, I think I did. Yeah, but then if you... How can you say that
6:31
Slagging his country off after we've saved his life and giving him a job and giving him a career
6:35
and giving him his kids and all that, and a new life, essentially. And then he's saying how terrible we are
6:40
Well, I don't know why you should go back then. Well, I'm not saying that, Raj
6:44
You said that, I didn't. I did say that, I did say that, yeah
6:48
Anyway, we digress. The reason why I call Ian is more around the whole point about how this could pan out quite easily
6:56
I don't think, once a ceasefire comes into place and it all settles down, I don't think another bullet will be fired in anger
7:03
And over the years, three or four years, Putin will get back into it, is a propaganda machine will start working
7:08
and they'll work on all the Ukrainians and they'll end up back with a pro-Russian leadership
7:15
And all this will have been a waste of time and Russia will put their arms around Ukraine again
7:20
and it'll be like nothing changed. Well, that's the fear. That's the fear
7:25
That is the fear, absolutely. But there's nothing that we can do about that when that starts to kick into place
7:30
The propaganda machine is the propaganda machine. We can't counterbalance that in any respect
7:34
Well, you see, that's what's happened in Afghanistan, isn't it? Where the Taliban are back in power and you think
7:40
well, what was the last 20 years all about? Well, again, I mean, look how many people have died on both sides
7:45
And it's going to be such a waste. And they've lost so many good young people
7:48
Ukraine, in the sense of so many have emigrated, obviously 200 plus thousand to this country
7:53
and so many others around Europe. They're not going to go back
7:58
What are they going to go back to? And it's going to be such a waste of time
8:03
that this ever happened in the first place. And I don't think, personally, I don't think Putin
8:08
is looking to expand Russia's empire. I think at the age of 72 and having been in power for 24 years
8:14
why would he want to do that now? I just can't see it himself. Well, because he said himself he wants to recreate the Soviet Union
8:20
and their borders. But he's 72 years old and he's been in power for 24 years. But some people don't really recognise the fact
8:27
that they're in the sort of last stages. I mean, look, people live till they're 100 nowadays
8:33
lots of people do so he could be there for quite some time i don't think he's in the best of health
8:37
but who knows uh but he has ambitions beyond his current borders he said it in terms yeah well i
8:44
agree with you i agree with you but i just don't think i think this could all have been a complete
8:48
waste of time and a complete waste of life well i hope you're wrong but i hear what you say
8:53
raj thank you let's go to james a new caller in waltham forest hello james hi hi ian uh thanks for
8:59
taking my call i'm slightly disappointed i'm a big fan of yours uh slightly disappointed in your
9:06
stance on uh putting boots on the ground um what what do you think my stance is because i haven't
9:12
actually said that i i agree with that no no you you basically said that you a 63 year old man with a hip problem so you don want to go Well even if I wanted to go no one would want me You prepared to put other young men on the ground Ian
9:26
No, I haven't said that. So I think your vote is null and void, really
9:31
I haven't said that. You're not prepared to go. You're not able to go. The other thing, Ian, is that you dismissed the earlier caller
9:38
As soon as they mentioned the name of Geoffrey Sachs, the man who has been there from the beginning
9:43
he has been there but you dismiss it as if it's nothing do you know do you know why i do that
9:48
because everyone who is a putin apologist quotes him oh yeah but okay so that's it so you don't
9:55
want to listen then well just because someone disagrees with you they come from the other side
10:00
you want to just just dismiss it well i'm not i'm not interested in hearing from putin apologists
10:05
not interested at all no i'm just not interested because i regard this man i regard this man as the
10:11
enemy of our country and i don't particularly wish to listen to people who support him personally do
10:15
you of course i don't don't be stupid exactly you don't so why why would you not listen to someone
10:20
who has met him talk to him been in contact with him discussed with him and was there from the very
10:26
beginning why would you not want to listen to firsthand evidence because i'm not interested
10:31
in somebody who who all the supporters of putin quote adoringly i'm not interested
10:37
No, adoringly, I want to hear the truth. I want to hear every aspect
10:41
Well, I don't think you do. I think you want to hear..
10:45
I do. I want to hear everything because I want to know what's right for our young men to do
10:50
And what do you think is right? I want to hear from both sides
10:53
No, no, what do you think is right? I want to stop young men from going into war and being killed for the wrong reasons as what happened in Afghanistan
11:04
Well, then you should tell Putin he shouldn't have invaded Ukraine, shouldn't you
11:08
Well, and America should not have invaded Iraq. Here we are, the whataboutery
11:13
I'm all prepared for it because that's all we get from people like you
11:16
People like you who are just interested in defending Putin. I'm not defending anyone. I want to know the truth
11:24
No, I asked you a question. I'm not defending anyone. You are effectively defending Putin because you won't answer my question
11:31
Do you think, you've said that 10 times now, do you want, do you think that Putin was justified in invading Ukraine
11:41
Well, Putin warned NATO not to put their troops into Ukraine. And they didn't
11:49
There were no NATO troops in Ukraine. Yes, there are. There are American troops there now
11:56
There's NATO troops there now. There were no NATO troops in Ukraine at the time of the invasion or before that, as you well know
12:04
Yeah. No, I don't well know that. And neither do you. I do know that. Because no, you don't. No, you don't. You don't know everything
12:11
So you think, even if there were, will you shut up for a minute, James
12:16
Because otherwise I'm going to cut you off because I'm fed up with the fact that you don't even know how to debate
12:23
Do you think... I don't know how to debate. OK, goodbye. Goodbye
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