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Iain Dale is joined by LBC's Political Correspondent, Bethany Dawson, Ben Judah, Former adviser to David Lammy while he was Foreign Secretary and Lord Kim Darroch, Former British ambassador to the United States during the first Trump administration. Together they discuss the concerns that the White House has raised over Ed Miliband taking on the role of Foreign Secretary. The former Energy Secretary has previously criticised Donald Trump, clashing with him over net zero policies and his views on democracy. Listen to the full show on the all-new LBC App: https://app.af.lbc.co.uk/btnc/thenewlbcapp #iaindale #andyburnham #edmiliband #donaldtrump #ukgovernment #LBC LBC is the home of live debate around news and current affairs in the UK. Join in the conversation and listen at https://www.lbc.co.uk/ Sign up to LBC’s weekly newsletter here: https://l-bc.co/signup
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0:00
Now, I want to talk in the first hour of the programme about our new Foreign Secretary, Ed Miliband
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Ed Miliband has graced our politics for, what, about 20 years now
0:09
He was elected as MP for Doncaster in the early part of the century
0:14
Was it 2001? I think it was 2005, wasn't it? And he very soon became a minister under Gordon Brown and then joined Gordon Brown's cabinet as Energy and Environment Secretary
0:26
That was when I first met him. I was writing an article, a profile of the Miliband brothers for GQ, and I spent a day with each of them
0:33
And I came to the conclusion that Ed Miliband was far more likely to lead his party and be a successor to Gordon Brown than his brother David was
0:39
Well, for once, I got something right. And he then took over the leadership of the Labour Party in 2010 when Gordon Brown stood down
0:48
Had a pretty undistinguished five years as leader of the Labour Party
0:52
He didn't win the 2015 general election when I think many people thought that he would have done, possibly should have done
1:01
And then he stood down immediately after that. And I think most people thought that would be the end of his political career
1:05
Well, here we are today. And after having been energy secretary under Keir Starmer, he's just been appointed as Britain's foreign secretary
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which was a bit of a surprise because there was a lot of speculation that his brother would take that job
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But that obviously didn't happen. So whenever anybody gets a position with regard to foreign affairs at the moment, the first question is, how will they deal with the Trump administration
1:33
Well, it's not usual for a foreign secretary to deal directly with the American president, which possibly might be just as well after some of the remarks that Ed Miliband made in a GQ interview
1:46
I think it was with Alistair Campbell a few years ago. So let's talk to Bethany Dawson, our political correspondent, and get more about this
1:56
And then we'll hear from you as to whether you think this was an inspired appointment as Foreign Secretary
2:02
whether you think it doesn't really matter that he made some very disparaging remarks about Donald Trump in the past
2:08
whether you think he can get over that, and whether you think it's – maybe we shouldn't just even care
2:13
That should just be factored in. David Lammy had done the same when he was appointed Foreign Secretary
2:17
he'd made all sorts of different remarks about Donald Trump. Does it really matter
2:22
Or do you admire a politician who speaks their mind on these issues? 0345 6060 973
2:29
Bethany, very good evening. So what did Ed Miliband say about Donald Trump that is causing so much hysteria
2:36
Well, they certainly were not words of love. As you say, it is usual for the Prime Minister to deal with the President
2:43
However, we know that President Donald Trump and those around him are already smarting at the concept of Foreign Secretary Ed Miliband and what that could mean for the Burnham-Trump relationship
2:55
This interview from April of 2018, so while Trump was in power for the first time, has resurfaced over the last 24 hours for very obvious reasons
3:05
And this was an interview, as you say, done by the former Downing Street communications chief Alistair Campbell for GQ magazine
3:14
And this is what Ed Miliband said about the US president. And I think it's very important that people, you know, show, you know, what is objectionable about him
3:25
His racism, his misogyny, his incredibly peculiar relationship with Russia. And the truth
3:35
and the truth most of all the truth And you know who he is as a person I mean there a line There not much wiggle room for spin there Ed Miliband clearly not a fan of the current US president And today LBC has spoken with Trump ally and former senior economic advisor Stephen Moore
3:57
about what he believes the US president will make of Andy Burnham's new government
4:02
and the choice of Ed Miliband in particular, given his association with the Net Zero program, which Trump is so strongly opposed to
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You know, in fact, we just did a report on Unleashed Prosperity on what's happened with net zero in the United States
4:17
About five years ago, it was all the rage. And now almost every major bank and financial institution has discarded net zero
4:25
It's a lunatic idea. It's an idea that is designed to make developed countries much, much poorer
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You cannot run an industrialized country. You can't run a manufacturing country if you don't have access to cheap and abundant and reliable energy
4:43
And so the idea that, you know, Britain can be an industrial powerhouse using windmills strikes a lot of Americans as being a very naive idea
4:54
Look, Trump has basically said the number one priority of leaders in the, you know, of industrialized countries is to get their economies growing faster and to get out of the malaise that Britain has been in now for many, many years
5:15
And it's pretty clear that the agenda that's being laid out by this new administration is running in exactly the wrong direction
5:24
there's not again much wiggle room either way there for how either sides are feeling we've also
5:32
heard i mean criticism kind of across the board today not a lot of love um one of the pieces of
5:40
criticism maybe you wouldn't expect any different from boris johnson the former prime minister
5:45
on twitter he criticized ed milliband's own track record on foreign policy saying his failure to
5:53
stand up to Baal Shah al-Assad, for which Miliband bears much the guilt, led directly to Putin's
6:01
first invasion of Ukraine, an appalling choice for foreign secretary. The Kremlin will be delighted
6:08
Now, of course, that is in reference to Ed Miliband's choice as former Labour leader
6:13
to block the UK military action against then Syrian President Baal Shah al-Assad in 2013
6:22
recently it should be noted that Ed Miliband said he did not regret that
6:27
Bethany, thank you very much indeed. He also told The World at One following that interview
6:33
the whole idea we have shared values with a racist, misogynist, self-confessed groper beggars belief
6:40
And in 2017, he said Mr Trump had lowered the bar for idiocy and later joined a stop Trump march in London
6:47
Well, that is obviously not going to go down well in the White House, is it
6:50
Ben Judah joins me, former advisor to David Lammy when he was Foreign Secretary, who's now a visiting fellow at Chatham House
6:57
Ben, very good evening. Now, David Lammy had said some pretty disobliging things about Donald Trump before he was appointed
7:03
And he seemed to build a reasonable relationship with the American administration, possibly mainly through J.D. Vance
7:09
Do you think these remarks are going to come back to haunt Ed Miliband? I think this is sort of provincial British concern that misses the real nature of American politics
7:20
in which you don't have a single member of Donald Trump's cabinet, including his vice president
7:24
or his secretary of state that haven made even stronger remarks than anything David Lammy or Ed Miliband have said in the negative about Donald Trump You know what Trump who cares about is where are you going What are you doing next If Trump didn speak to anyone
7:45
who'd made a rude remark about him, he wouldn't have any contacts in international relations
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We've sort of done this before. We've been through Angela Rayner's comments when she was
7:57
Deputy Prime Minister, we've been through, you know, Keir Starmer's comments. And it just doesn't
8:03
stop these people having a sort of work, having a sort of good relationship with the United States
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And that's because ultimately, both sides know that the alliance is much more important than
8:13
politics, and that the friendship and the alliance between both countries is a much more important
8:19
thing than comments that may have been made. Like, what, in 2018, of Alistair Campbell? Like
8:25
You know, that's not something that's going to get Donald Trump upright in bed
8:32
Let's just be real here. You know, let's have a look at what Ed Miliband's probably going to do as foreign secretary
8:37
because that's where I'd be far more interested in working out how geopolitics are going to change
8:43
So what do you think he should be doing? I mean, particularly vis-a-vis the US administration
8:48
I mean, how would you advise him to build good relations? Should it be through J.D. Vance
8:53
Should it be through Marco Rubio? So his first statement was, I think, really strong in which it made clear that his priority is deepening our alliance with the European Union
9:05
But in the same sentence that he wanted to nurture our vital alliance with the United States
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So that's extending an olive branch to the State Department, to the White House, to the United States
9:16
It's making it very clear in his very first words that he believes in the transatlantic bond
9:23
I think that we will see more moves like that over the next few days
9:28
He's made it clear with his first call, his priority is Ukraine
9:32
talked to the Ukrainian foreign minister and standing up for Ukraine. And I think that he will doubtless speak to Marco Rubio soon
9:41
and strike up a good working relationship with him. You worked on the Chegos deal
9:48
Obviously, Donald Trump wasn't a fan of that. Do you think that's dead now? So the nature of our very peculiar base and territory in the Indian Ocean is that it's really an Anglo-American joint thing and its future has to be decided by both countries together
10:08
So I think there's been kicked into a very, very long grass at the other end of the lawn
10:14
And I don't expect that that's going to feature very heavily until the Democrats come back to power, which very much looking like they will, and revive the deal for all of the reasons that, you know, has been explained before why the Democrats wanted that to happen in the first place and why they pushed Labour so hard to make a deal over that base when Biden was still president
10:36
Ben, thank you. That's Ben Judah, the former advisor to David Lammy when he was Foreign Secretary
10:41
Lord Kim Darroch joins me, former British ambassador to the US during Trump's first administration, also former national security adviser
10:50
Kim, thank you very much for joining us this evening. What would your advice be to Ed Miliband in terms of building some sort of relationship with the Trump administration
10:58
And do you think these remarks are going to be held against him? Yeah, I mean, first of all, it'd be very hard to find any Labour MP of any sort of standing
11:14
who hasn said something critical about Donald Trump over the past 10 years And it would also be difficult I mean quite a lot of American politicians including Marco Rubio in the 2016 campaign which I was watching from Washington and J Vance famously in the early days from running for senator in Ohio were very rude about Donald Trump
11:36
And they're both working for him now. So I think you can get past these things
11:41
Don't imagine that Donald Trump won't know because someone will tell him what Ed Miliband has said
11:47
but you can move on from it. And anyway, the relationship between Washington and London is primarily set between Number 10 and the White House
11:57
And, you know, foreign ministers kind of come and go. My advice to Miliband would be, look, he needs to focus on trying to get this reset with Europe over the line
12:09
and think about what happens next. The biggest crisis facing us in Europe is the Russian invasion
12:15
of Ukraine. That is looking worse for the Russians and better for the Ukrainians this year than was
12:22
the case last year. And there may be some quite important work to be done by the Europeans who
12:26
now have to do the bulk, if not all, of the support for Ukraine because not much is coming
12:30
from Washington. So that's a real priority for him. And of course, he needs to see Marco Rubio
12:35
soon. And you have to work with him quite a lot because, you know, they're together at lots of
12:41
international meetings. They'll see each other at the UN General Assembly in September. So they'll
12:46
get to know each other pretty quickly. And I think they can get on fine, honestly. Marco Rubio is not
12:51
like Donald Trump, and he's an experienced politician. And he's done the Secretary of State
12:55
job for some time now. So he's quite experienced in that as well. So I wouldn't worry about that
13:01
too much, honestly. And as I said, I mean, what David, what Ed Miliband has said in the past
13:07
Trump will know it, but I think it's possible to move on from it. Do you think the Foreign Office would have preferred his brother, David, to have come
13:14
back to be Foreign Secretary? Because he was Foreign Secretary for three years under Gordon
13:18
Brown. I think most people think he did quite a good job. He's obviously been out of British
13:22
politics for a long time, but has built a formidable range of international contacts
13:26
I would have thought in his job as head of international rescue
13:32
It's a little odd that he's picked the other brother, isn't it? Well, I worked closely with David Miliband when he was foreign secretary
13:40
And I agree with your characterisation of his performance. I thought he was an excellent foreign secretary
13:46
I thought he had a real gift for foreign policy. And I think he's a big loss to British politics
13:54
and I would certainly have applauded if he had been brought back into this job as was rumoured
14:00
On the other hand, I think you have to be fair and give Ed Miliband a chance. He's a serious
14:05
politician. He's done some serious jobs. I think your description at the outset of this discussion
14:10
of the ups and downs of his career was pretty fair. But, you know, let's see how he does
14:16
I mean, I've met him a bit and, you know, he's clearly a serious politician. So let's hope he
14:23
surprises us all. Kim, thank you. That's Lord Kim Darroch there from a British ambassador to the
14:29
United States. I think that last point is quite important because it's very easy to rush to
14:34
judgment. I mean, we've got West Streeting appointed as defence secretary, an appointment
14:38
that I'm told has gone down like a cup of cold sick in the Ministry of Defence. Well, yeah, sure
14:43
West Streeting is not a defence expert. That much is clear. He would admit that himself
14:49
He made an interesting speech today, though. I'm not sure how much he will have written himself
14:54
And we'll be talking about that after nine. But do you not think that we need to learn a few lessons here
15:00
That if we rush to judgment so quickly and just decide, oh, well, this guy's no good
15:06
This prime minister is no good. We're just going to get into another doom loop, aren't we
15:11
We've got to give them a chance
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