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Former White House communications director Anthony Scaramucci joins Ben Kentish to react to the state of UK politics and discuss the ongoing war in the Middle East. 0:00 | Where did Starmer go wrong with Trump? 1:35 | How should Andy Burnham approach Trump? 3:19 | Trump believes in the 'repetition of a lie' 5:00 | Is Farage really the British Trump? 7:42 | The prospects of Farage becoming PM are 'overblown' 8:52 | Is Farage as 'extreme' as Trump? 10:45 | Trump's handling of the Iran war 14:55 | Will Trump go for a third term? 15:57 | Will MAGA end with Donald Trump? 18:35 | Analysing Trump's 'mental faculties' Listen to the full show on the all-new LBC App: https://app.af.lbc.co.uk/btnc/thenewlbcapp #benkentish #scaramucci #donaldtrump #trump #uspolitics #farage #iran #iranwar #LBC LBC is the home of live debate around news and current affairs in the UK. Join in the conversation and listen at https://www.lbc.co.uk/ Sign up to LBC’s weekly newsletter here: https://l-bc.co/signup
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0:00
I want to start, if I could, with British political matters, lots of upheaval, turmoil in this country
0:04
We're about to get a new prime minister, of course. Fair to say, I think, that the outgoing one failed in his attempts to build a relationship with President Trump
0:13
We saw that over the weekend with Trump in sort of typically diplomatic fashion, preempting the resignation of Keir Starmer and saying he'd failed badly
0:23
What's your sense of where Keir Starmer went wrong with President Trump? Well, first of all, I like Keir Starmer
0:30
You know, my heart goes out to him and his family. I thought that was an emotional speech that he gave yesterday
0:35
I think that the problem that most of the world leaders have with Trump is that they're trying to find a path into his personality
0:43
And so it's like a Rubik's Cube with porcupine needles sticking out of it
0:47
So their hands end up bloody as they're searching for the code. But there's no code
0:51
Take the cube and throw it out and treat the president the way Mark Carney treats him
0:56
which is to hit him as hard as you can hit him, classy and diplomatically
1:01
but also explain to people where things are at and where you stand with him
1:06
And I think if you do that, he respects you more, and you end up having a better relationship with him
1:12
than being one of the sycophants or getting online for the obsequiousness
1:18
And by the way, let me just finish. He doesn't like it. So when you see him in the cabinet meeting
1:23
He wants those people to do that because he wants to humiliate them
1:27
But then he derisively looks at them and says, oh, can you believe these guys
1:33
You believe that they're kowtowing to me like this. So would your advice to whoever our next prime minister is, quite probably Andy Burnham, be approach President Trump from a position of strength rather than perhaps one
1:45
Again, polite and respectful. But look, I've got my own country to run
1:49
You've got your own country. And if you're going to be antagonistic to me, I'm going to be somewhat dismissive of you or I'm going to really ignore you
1:57
You know, when when Carney came to office, he didn't call President Trump
2:02
This was the first time perhaps in the history of Canada where the prime minister of Canada didn't make a phone call to the American president
2:09
And so what we discovered is that Carney was not interested in calling him and being called governor or the 51st state
2:16
And so part of the agreement was Trump was going to address him as the prime minister and address Canada as a sovereign country of Canada before that communique was going to happen
2:25
And I think that's the right way to handle Trump. So whoever your future prime minister is, and certainly I wish them well
2:30
And I think it's very important for our nations to stick together and to see through the misbehavior and the lack of classiness of Donald Trump and get to the other side of this thing
2:42
But don't kowtow to him. You kowtow to him. You're going to get in his Twitter crosshairs. He's going to light you up on Twitter
2:49
He's going to do the very best he can to humiliate you in front of your own people
2:54
And I just want to make one last point about this. When when Stormer finally realized that that was the right behavior, it's perhaps a little bit too late
3:02
And so when the Iranian crisis took hold, you know, Stormer brushed him back and said, you know, I've got no interest in getting involved with this
3:09
I'm not going to put the British troops or people in harm's way for a unilateral war that wasn't necessary and none of us wanted
3:17
OK, that was that's the right way to handle it. Just on that Iran question. I mean, I know Trump came out yesterday and said the British people were very unhappy with Prime Minister Starmer not getting involved in the war
3:27
despite the fact that every single opinion poll in this country says the opposite is true
3:31
Does he does he genuinely believe the falsehoods that he tells or does he know he's lying
3:36
He knows that he's lying. And he said that to Leslie Stahl. You can see it on tape
3:40
He has said it to me. You know, he just, you know, believe half of what I say is literally the quote
3:47
And, you know, I would you know, there was a situation for me and it it happened on a Tuesday
3:52
And I know it was a Tuesday because I was really only there for one Tuesday. So I remember this quite vividly
3:57
I'm in the White House with him. We're writing something down. He's going to give a speech in the Rose Garden
4:03
It's now the Rose Pavement, but it was once the Rose Garden. and the number was a really flattering and good number for him
4:09
It was like 86% of something economically positive. He went out there and said 96%
4:16
When he came back in, I said, why do we do that? I mean, no, no, 96 sounds better than 86
4:24
I said, well, you're going to get four Pinocchios from the Washington Post. What difference does that make
4:28
He believes in the repetition of the lie. The falsehood will turn into some perception of reality for a very large group of people
4:37
And he's by and large, as cynical as this sounds, he's by and large been right about that
4:42
We'll talk more about him and his sort of future prospects in just a moment. Final question on British politics
4:47
Lots of comparisons often drawn, usually negatively, between Donald Trump and Nigel Farage in this country
4:53
as if they're sort of political peas in the pod. There are very many similarities. Do you see those similarities
4:58
Do you see Farage as a sort of British Trump? Well, I think he's a British populist. I think he's also trying to he's trying to use the totems of xenophobia and anti-immigration to his favor. I think he's he's captured the imagination of angry voters. And I'm not saying voters in your country or our country are not justified in their anger. But I think what we have found with Trump is that there's no remedy
5:23
You know you could be anger based and you can enjoy Trump going after people on Twitter but he provided no policy solution I think the Farage solutions that I seen they lack substance
5:34
And I think it would be very dangerous for the people to go in that direction. Now, having said that, as an observer of both countries, I would like the citizens of this country to take a step back and actually applaud their system
5:46
You've had seven prime ministers in 10 years or about to have seven prime ministers. And so you can deride that, but you could at least also be happy that you have a system that will dispatch people that aren't working
5:59
And, you know, you've had this economic setback as a result of Brexit
6:02
It's probably not as bad as some people would like it to believe. And Farage is certainly a supporter of the Brexit
6:09
It didn't work, let's just face it, if you look at the data over the last 10 years
6:14
And so I think his political influence is waning. He doesn't have Trump's personality
6:19
He doesn't have his bombast. And I'll just point this out to people that you need haters in politics
6:26
You know, one of the problems that Prime Minister Starmer had, he was a pretty placid guy and was trying to please a lot of people, didn't have a lot of haters
6:32
But the reason why you need haters is that if you're right and they're wrong, you can convert them
6:38
And what we know about the conversion, when you convert a hater into a believer, they're way more strident and they're way more passionate once they do
6:46
You know, we see that in religion. We can see that in political ideology. And I think you've got to be bold
6:52
You know, ultimately, whoever the next prime minister is going to be, I'm assuming it's likely to be the mayor of Manchester
6:58
Andy Burnham, yes. And if it is him, my suggestion to him is be bold
7:02
You have a vision. Execute on the vision fearlessly. And do something that Tony Blair would recommend
7:08
You've got to go sometimes on the seat of your pants using your instincts more than overly yzing data
7:14
You can't have a political leader in this time in either of these two countries that are suffering from ysis paralysis
7:22
Don't overyze things. You have a vision. Go to execute the vision because you're either going to be right and the people are going to come with you or you're going to be wrong and you'll be number seven on the way to number eight
7:34
I think quite a few recent British prime ministers have probably been lacking. When you say Nigel Farage's influence is on the way, do you think the kind of speculation and the talk of him as a very, very strong candidate to be our future prime minister is being overblown
7:50
I think so. I think if you look at, is it Burnham? Is that how you pronounce his name
7:54
If you look at his success, I think the people are looking for a counter solution
7:59
I also think that Trump has hurt Farage. You know, Trump helped Albanese in Australia. Trump helped my friend Mark Carney in Canada. And Trump helps the people and hurts the people, hurts the people that are with him and helps the people not with him
8:19
Now, you can say, well, look at what happened in Colombia. He endorsed the guy and the guy won. But it's not the United Kingdom
8:25
The English-speaking people outside of the United States, and by the way, for that matter, even inside the United States
8:32
because now two-thirds of the people inside the United States are against them, I would say the English-speaking populations generally dislike Trump
8:38
and whoever he is supporting generally gets smisted in the polls and gets defeated in the polling box
8:44
So the close relationship that's long existed between Farage and Trump, You think will undermine reforms, hopes of reforming the government
8:51
I think so. Do you see Ferrar just sort of as extreme as Trump, as dangerous even
8:56
So I don't know him as well, so I'm not going to be one of these people that just jumps on the bandwagon
9:01
I think there's a con there, though. I think when I listen to him speak, I've interacted with him a few times virtually over television
9:09
There's a con there. I get the con. I get the play
9:13
It's a nativism play. It's a xenophobic play. And people feel strained
9:18
They feel their income is strained. And when that's when you have an income strain in the country, you have a tendency towards anti-immigration
9:24
But the flip side is, if you have the right type of immigration, you can boost the intellectual capital in the country, which leads to massively higher growth and much more innovation
9:37
And so I think that's what the mainstream politicians have to talk about. Where Farage is right and where Trump is right for that matter, there's a very large group of people in both of these populations that feel left out
9:49
Disposable income is way down for working class families. And they want they either fix the system or let me hire somebody that can break the system because the system is not working for me
10:02
That's the message. And so I would I would say to your future prime minister who's ever a member of parliament, understand that dilemma
10:10
And now, you know, set aside your differences and work on policies that are right for those people
10:17
Forget about right-leaning politics or left-leaning politics. Focus on right or wrong and work on policies that heals that divide
10:25
Bring those people back into the fold of the social contract. I think that's a message for both of these countries
10:31
I think a lot of people in this country would endorse that sort of sentiment. Let's just talk, let's move away from British politics, talk about world affairs for a moment, if that's okay
10:37
And you write in your book about the failures of George Bush's George W. Bush's foreign policy
10:43
Talk to me about Donald Trump's handling of the Iran war and your sense of how he's managed
10:47
Let me just step back. So the book is coming out in September. It's called all the wrong moves
10:51
It not necessarily an indictment of President Bush or an indictment of President Obama But there are three major policy mistakes that we made and this is sort of a bipartisan reflective indictment of the system Well people
11:06
can make bad decisions that lead to disastrous outcomes, and this all predates Donald Trump
11:12
so it's not a screed against Trump as much as it is a failure of the establishment to connect the
11:17
lower-income people into the society and making them feel aspirational. But, You know, one of the things that Bush did is he cut taxes in March of 2001, which is what he promised
11:29
Remember, it was a very narrow election. And then he went on to prosecute a war in Afghanistan and eventually in Iraq
11:36
It's the first time in our history where we had a tax cut going into a war
11:40
We've always had a tax increase. And this really set us up for that deficit divide that we're still experiencing
11:46
said differently when Bush left, if you went from George Washington to George W. Bush
11:51
you had $7 trillion of deficit spending for the U.S. over the culmination of those years
11:57
The ensuing presidents, there's only been three of them, you know, Trump two times
12:02
but, you know, Obama, Trump, Biden, Trump, those presidencies have led to, you know
12:09
I mean, in calculus, almost $34 trillion worth of debt. Trump himself is responsible for 28 percent of the national deficit of the 250-year-old United States
12:21
I mean, just to understand how heavily he's spending. And so the Bush dynamic on the war, yes, we now know that that war was a failed policy
12:31
It was the wrong decision and certainly misguided. But follow the money, too
12:36
We broke the money by going into that war. He also, I think, mishandled the TARP
12:42
Him and Obama mishandled the TARP money. It went way too much to the banks
12:47
None of the bankers got in trouble. All the bankers got paid out that year. And yet the middle and lower income people lost their houses or were forced into personal bankruptcy
12:56
It wasn't fair in the system. So the Trump stuff now is quite different
13:02
You know, Trump has decided that he is smarter than everybody. He's got a bigger, better brain than everybody
13:09
You know, he's smarter than all of his generals. And so when they give him information like they're going to implement the Mosaic Defense Doctrine, they're going to close the Strait of Hormuz, we can have a decapitation strategy that they're ready for because they understand the Mossad and they've observed America in the Middle East through Afghanistan and Iraq
13:27
And so if we go with a decapitation strategy, they're going to layer down into leadership, which will keep the republic going
13:34
When they told Trump stuff like that, he ignored them. You know, I'm smarter than you
13:38
And what he is is he's definitely luckier than most people. He's had quite a luck string going for five decades
13:44
But this conflict, I mean, he's been a disaster. Yeah, he's failed catastrophic
13:49
It's been a failure, a seismic failure on every different level. It's cost the global economy over a trillion dollars
13:58
It's a billion dollars a day for America. We're probably into $150 billion or so expenditure
14:04
We've radically reduced our armaments. We're at, you know, warning light blinking levels in terms of where we are with our arsenal
14:12
which also speaks to the madness of spending a trillion dollars on our defense and not having anything to show for it
14:18
And then the last thing, which people really are not talking about, but just take a look at the satellite images
14:24
the Iranians devastated, devastated American bases in the Gulf. And so we just are not ready for this new drone technology
14:34
We set ourselves up with aircraft carriers and, you know, we're shooting two million dollar THAAD missiles at five thousand dollar drones
14:42
You're not going to make the math work when you're doing that. And you touched on it a moment ago that that war and other factors as well, making more and more unpopular, including with parts of his own base
14:50
Do you think he'll try and run for a third term unprecedentedly? I don't think so. I think there's a lot of reasons for that
14:58
But I think the tip of the spear on that is his age. I don't I don't think the 82 year old Donald Trump is going to be able to stand for election again
15:06
If he goes to push that, I think that's when the knives really come out in his own party, because, you know, anybody that's been elected dog catcher in the United States sees themselves as the 48th president of the United States
15:19
So there's a lot of young people in that party that are quite ambitious. And I think he'll be weakened after the midterms
15:26
And he's incredibly – let me tell you this. You have to solve for this if you're going to run as a Republican
15:33
You've got to soothe his base and try to get them to vote for you even though you're not Donald Trump
15:38
And then you've got to reach into the middle because Trump really only has a mid to low 30s approval rating
15:44
So, you know, it's going to be a very vexing thing to do as a Republican to win the nomination and then the president
15:51
So if he doesn't run, a couple of final questions, if he doesn't run, firstly, what happens to MAGA and that movement
15:59
Does it continue? Does it end with Donald Trump's sort of political rear ending? And secondly, do you see any sign of the Democrats kind of getting their act together and being in a position to challenge him more effectively
16:09
So I'm going to answer that one first. No sign of the Democrats getting their act together
16:12
The best thing the Republicans have going for and the best thing Donald Trump has had going for him since he started in politics are the Democrats
16:19
They in disarray They righteous They have all these moral hypocrisies that they try to pretend that they are which are really not And they shoot at each other in such a ridiculous way that they can form an opinion and just
16:34
get behind one person that's electable. They've got all these value tests
16:38
You know, Harris said something in 107 days that tells you everything you need to know
16:43
Buttigieg was the best guy, but Buttigieg's gay. So there's all these litmus tests that goes on in the Democratic Party
16:49
Is America not ready for a gay person? Yeah, so, you know, not ready for a black woman and a gay guy
16:53
Okay, come on. If you're the best athletes on the field, let's play the best athletes
16:57
We learned that from Jackie Robinson in 1947. So that's a sign that they're still caught
17:04
And the Democrats are always going to lose the culture war if they're in that position because America doesn't like it
17:10
You know, America doesn't like the world culture. Does 15% of America want you to designate your pronoun and all that sort of stuff
17:16
Sure. But 85% of America really doesn't like it. And they're with Trump on that, whether the Democrats like it or not
17:23
The first part of the question. Yeah, I think that's the most interesting part, which is, is that a personality cult
17:31
If it is, then it will disintegrate. It'll disintegrate upon the death of his political life, not his death death
17:38
But when he leaves office and can no longer stand for election, I think that group of people disintegrates
17:45
I think it morphs into something else. And I don't think there's any political leader in that area of politics that can galvanize and coalesce that coalition
17:56
Including J.D. Vance. Including J.D. Vance. So he doesn't have Trump's Riz. You know what the Riz is, right
18:00
You're young enough to know what Riz is. He doesn't have Trump's Riz. You can like Trump or dislike Trump, but he's got it going on
18:07
He can capture your imagination. The whole stunt about tweeting about Stormer before he announced his resignation, he wanted a Bigfoot Stormer and get the attention
18:16
Trump's about making money and getting attention. He's not there to serve the American public
18:21
He's there to serve himself and enrich his family. That's what it's about
18:25
When you see it from that prism, you can predict a lot of his behavior and a lot of his patterns
18:31
Final question. Whenever we talk about Donald Trump on LBC, I've noticed a bit of a tendency people have to try and diagnose him with all sorts of things
18:41
I'm aware you're not a doctor. I'm aware of the risks of trying to diagnose people when you're not a medical professional
18:48
But just how do I ask this diplomatically? Give us your sense, if you would, of his mental faculties right now and whether you think he does have some of the personality disorders
18:57
Listen, he doesn't have dementia. He certainly has a narcissistic personality and perhaps a narcissistic personality disorder
19:05
He has some of the infirmities of someone that you would expect at age 80
19:09
But on the flip side of that, he's a pretty vigorous, pretty healthy 80s. So don't underestimate him
19:14
There's stuff on social media that he has prefrontal, temporal, dementia, and all this sort of nonsense
19:20
It's not something I'm a big believer in. Is he forgetful? Has he shortened his vocabulary
19:27
Some of the things that happen when you are in age-related cognitive decline, sure
19:32
But where he is unwell is he's making statements that are not anywhere in the realm of what a world leader should be saying
19:44
When you're calling for the death and destruction of a civilization and you're putting that out on Twitter or X or whatever he's doing, it's a war crime
19:54
Remember, to threaten a war crime is actually a war crime. And so just right then and there, imagine Stormer, Burnham, you pick the person, you know, Cameron
20:03
Yeah. If they were doing it, they would, first of all, it would never happen. And second of all, their own leadership would decapitate them immediately
20:10
You know, and I think what I would say to the U.K. citizens listening in, as an American observer, however critical you are of your own country, respect, thank God, that you guys have guidelines and a process
20:23
Thank God that your political leaders live by the rule of law, and they're subordinate to it, and they're not trying to subvert it like Donald Trump
20:32
What Trump has done is there was all of these gentlemanly and gentlewomanly standards and codes and customs, and he's deliberately trying to break every one of them
20:43
You know, I spoke at the Chalk Film History Festival yesterday, and I read off a list
20:48
I didn't get through the whole list. There's 100 of them, but I talked about what he did to the law firms, the universities, the attack on his adversaries, the pulling FCC licenses, the threatening of lawsuits against the media, all of the different things he's doing to weaken and intimidate people so that he can further press his power
21:09
And for me, I find it reprehensible, but what I also find reprehensible, there's nobody standing up against him in leadership
21:16
And so the country is in need of reform. At least your country, you guys are abiding by the process. So you should respect that. But for Trump, he when he goes, I think that MAGA thing disintegrates. And then I think there'll be a battle in the party. And I'm a contrarian on this. I think there are old school Republicans that'll be up for the fight with these populists. And they're there, you know, and they're they're in the Congress and they're in the governorships
21:44
And they don't like Trump. They'll pretend otherwise on television because they want to get out of his crosshairs
21:50
They don't want to get primaried or knocked out of their seats. But I think there'll be an ideological battle for the future of that party once he leaves
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