0:00
And now the East African nation has lodged a claim for 50 million quid
0:04
through the Netherlands-based Permanent Court of Arbitration. George is now his former Immigration Minister, Tom Persglove
0:11
Let's deal with the obvious question. Good to see you. Thank you for coming in. I mean, are we on the hook for 50 million quid here now
0:17
Sounds like it, doesn't it? Yeah. I mean, look, they got this completely wrong. When they took office, first thing they did to great fanfare
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was to cancel the Rwanda policy. And everything we've seen since has proven why that was a disaster
0:29
So crossing numbers up, we've got more people in hotels, and actually the one-in-one-out deal that I was saying
0:35
was always going to be a farce, you were saying was always going to be a farce, has proven to be a farce. And we've seen that play out with the numbers
0:40
that the Home Secretary is trying to defend today, where we're a net beneficiary of migrants coming to us overall
0:47
Bonkers. But it does look like there's going to be this legal case fought
0:51
over this £50 million compensation that the Rwandan government is seeking. I'm always on the side of the British taxpayer
0:57
I don't want that to happen. But I would say that this government has maligned the Rwandans in opposition
1:02
They were horrendous in terms of the things that they would say about the Rwandan government and the sort of purpose behind the partnership
1:09
And actually, my experience with the Rwandans was that they wanted to do the right thing, wanted to try and help tackle some of these global challenges
1:15
They should have been commended for that, not maligned. I actually have quite a lot of sympathy for the Rwandan government
1:19
I mean I rather not part with 50 million quid more than the taxpayer cash But I mean you know they kind of upheld their end of the bargain as far as I can tell and it wasn their fault that we were getting They acted in good faith actually Yeah I mean they done it I mean they built the stuff right You know and they were open to it So I do want
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to ask you on this, though. Do you wish that your government, with hindsight
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had just ploughed on and ignored things like the ECHR rulings on Rwanda, just got those flights
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off the ground? I do. And I think that, sort of, public
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opinion and political class opinion on this has moved enormously. When I think about
1:50
when we announced the partnership in 2022 and we were doing the National Act and Borders Act
1:55
that was seen as being really radical. We were, you know, there were lots of people out there
1:59
who said that we had no morals and this was a terrible thing. I think the way that this is viewed has changed enormously
2:05
And actually, Rwanda now is really the baseline in terms of what people think would do the job
2:09
I agree with that. I think this is still the right thing to do. I am willing to do whatever is necessary
2:13
I think that's the fault line in British politics now. Are you willing to change the law, do whatever is needed
2:18
in order to make this sort of partnership work? It's the only way you're going to solve it. Things like the one-in-one-out deal are inadequate
2:24
In fact, it probably encourages more people to make these journeys to get to France to then try and come to the UK
2:29
or perhaps even to be in the lottery to come on the legal route. But also, when you look at this £50 million figure
2:36
wouldn't it be a lot better for us actually just to use the accommodation and to make the most of the partnership
2:41
What they've done so far hasn't worked. They've had 18 months. My suggestion to the government would be
2:45
eat a bit of humble pie and get on and deliver this partnership. That's actually an interesting point. I must say I hadn't considered that
