This Freeze-Drying Advice Changed Everything For Me!

0:00
all right How do you create an effective
0:02
recipe in freeze drying maybe you're
0:04
frustrated or maybe you're thinking
0:06
"What ingredients are good for something
0:09
that could be freeze-dried?" We're here
0:10
today to talk to Jean Ligman who
0:12
actually is one of the freeze-drying
0:14
experts in the industry Jean I want to
0:16
ask you about the recipe side What is a
0:18
freezeing recipe can you classify that
0:21
yes So good question cuz people hear the
0:24
word recipe and they think well how many
0:26
which ingredients you know how much
0:27
flour or you know baking soda that's not
0:29
what we mean by a freeze-drying recipe
0:31
It's a process recipe So recipe is a
0:35
term that's used in industry in the
0:37
manufacturing industry to mean what
0:39
process steps am I taking step-wise to
0:42
get from the beginning stage to the end
0:44
In freeze drying what you're controlling
0:47
is typically the temperature of the
0:51
shelf the pressure in the chamber and
0:53
the amount of time that each step will
0:56
do Now there's different ways that
0:58
freeze dryers
0:59
control themselves Uh you don't have to
1:03
manually control a freeze dryer or you'd
1:05
be tearing your hair out right they This
1:07
is an automated machine You press start
1:08
and then you come back however long and
1:10
it and it's done So the small home
1:13
freeze dryers typically use a a control
1:17
philosophy called pressure control So
1:20
when the chamber pressure goes above a
1:22
certain set point it will turn off the
1:24
heaters until the pressure comes back
1:26
below And then the heaters will go back
1:28
on and the pressure will go up and it'll
1:30
just cycle above and below the the
1:32
pressure set point until the product is
1:35
dry enough that there's no longer enough
1:37
moisture being generated by your product
1:40
to drive pressure up And you can watch
1:41
this over the time right let's say you
1:43
have a a harvest right with a 500 mil
1:46
pressure set point You can watch that um
1:50
that that chamber pressure on your
1:52
control screen for a long time It's not
1:54
going to budge away from that 500 very
1:57
much It's going to stay right around
1:58
there But once you start to get past the
2:00
point where sublimation is is happening
2:02
right when you get into the the back
2:04
third of your process you can start to
2:06
see the pressures drifting down First it
2:08
goes down to 450 and then 350 and so on
2:11
And eventually it'll end up maybe around
2:13
200 miltor in a small home freeze dryer
2:16
So that's pressure Pressure control
2:19
is exceedingly useful in for some
2:23
products particularly products where you
2:26
need to have let's call it a fairly
2:29
gentle freeze drying process because the
2:31
products are sensitive to having too
2:33
much heat put in too fast or there or
2:35
getting the the shelf too hot Another
2:38
thing that the the harvest rights or the
2:39
blue alpines of the world control is
2:41
they have a a temperature cap Right
2:43
Right So when you uh load up a a recipe
2:47
um they have some canned recipes that
2:49
are in there It will it will say well
2:52
what temperature do you want right 115°
2:54
or 130° whatever it is That's a
2:57
temperature cap It's it's a temperature
2:59
above which it's like a second control
3:01
If the temperature of your shelf gets
3:03
above that temperature it will limit the
3:05
that and it'll keep it at that
3:07
temperature So it'll never go higher
3:08
than that When you have a machine that
3:11
um that
3:13
runs on pressure control you often trade
3:17
away how fast you can do your cycle in
3:19
exchange for making sure that the
3:21
pressure in your chamber never goes
3:23
above a certain point And why would you
3:25
want to do that because then you're
3:26
ensuring that the temperature in the ice
3:29
core the where the ice is actually
3:31
sublimating that temperature will be
3:33
governed by that pressure Laws of
3:36
physics here this is thermodynamics It's
3:37
called vapor vapor point Vapor point or
3:40
vapor pressure is simply the pressure at
3:42
which something will turn into a vapor
3:43
That's what's happening in your freeze
3:44
dryer When you control the pressure
3:46
you're controlling the temperature via
3:48
that vapor point A second way of
3:51
controlling a freeze dryer which is used
3:52
mostly in most of the um commercial
3:56
freeze dryers is by controlling the
3:58
temperature of the shelves as opposed to
4:00
controlling by the pressure in your
4:01
chamber This is a way that has more
4:03
control If I have a commercial freeze
4:06
dryer that's
4:07
got 500 baking trays of product in it if
4:13
I'm controlling you you can't have all
4:15
those baking trays be uniformly loaded
4:17
nor can you have all the heat
4:19
distribution in your in your chamber be
4:21
uniformly distributed So if I have one
4:25
pressure control set point like the
4:27
pressure and I'm controlling all of my
4:30
heaters based on that one input then
4:33
some of the shelves are going to not be
4:34
dry at the end and some of them are
4:35
going to be too dry possibly even burned
4:37
Pressure control is is fine for a small
4:40
machine but it's not so fine for a big
4:43
commercial machine You need more zonal
4:46
control You need to have a better
4:49
distribution of control across the
4:50
entire product to make sure that you get
4:53
a an a much more even end point so that
4:56
when it's done most of the product is
4:58
done And so when you have that
4:59
inconsistency which you're saying is is
5:02
heat and then the pressure that's what's
5:04
causing things to like quote not freeze
5:07
dry once you get it done with the
5:09
process Well what I mean is when you
5:11
pull up your product out some of it's
5:13
nice and crispy and dry and some of it's
5:15
still a little bit frozen in the middle
5:17
right so the part that's still frozen in
5:19
the middle or not quite dry you can tell
5:21
it's limp or it's it's not it's a little
5:23
bit soft or chewy or whatever Yeah That
5:25
means it needed longer So and and your
5:27
product doesn't switch It's not like a
5:29
light switch It goes from wet to dry It
5:32
smears from wet to dry right across a a
5:35
period of time Yeah Some trays are going
5:38
to get dry first And then they're going
5:40
to continue to sit there and bake and
5:41
bake and bake while the ma vast majority
5:44
it's like bell curve right the vast
5:46
majority of your product then gets dry
5:48
Yeah And then you're going to have a
5:49
bunch of trays you know on the outliers
5:51
of that bell curve that are still wet
5:54
Meanwhile the ones that got dry first
5:55
are still baking Hey everyone David I'm
5:57
the host of the freeze-dried business
5:59
channel and I'd like to invite you to
6:00
subscribe to this channel and the
6:02
network that I've grown for the
6:03
freeze-drying business community You can
6:05
do a couple things Give this video a
6:06
like if you're enjoying the content You
6:08
can also subscribe to being the more
6:09
connected to this industry and that way
6:12
you get more informed of more videos By
6:13
the way I've got a fantastic opportunity
6:16
for you to network with other
6:17
entrepreneurs and people in the industry
6:19
who are experts that can help inform you
6:21
to get more experience in this whole
6:23
industry like Jean And that's the
6:25
freeze-dried summit happening this year
6:27
in 2025 September 22nd and 23rd I hope
6:31
to have more and more events like this
6:33
If you want to learn more or purchase
6:34
your ticket to the freeze-dried summit
6:35
go to the video description right now
6:36
and you'll go to freeze-driedsummit.com
6:38
and find all the details I hope to see
6:40
you there With a lot of people having
6:42
home freeze dryers is a home freeze
6:44
dryer the best place to to get a recipe
6:48
down meaning those different steps in
6:50
the freeze drying process to kind of
6:51
nail that down You can't control a home
6:53
freeze dryer You the only thing you can
6:55
do is is load up recipes that have
6:57
already been basically built in This is
6:59
actually the limit one of the big
7:00
limiting factors on the difference
7:02
between a home freeze dryer and a
7:04
commercial freeze dryer You can you can
7:05
control every aspect of that process
7:07
recipe that goes from the beginning to
7:08
the end by controlling the temperature
7:10
of your shelves or setting pressure
7:12
limits or whatever You can do that in a
7:14
commercial freeze dryer which is very
7:16
necessary for a larger quantity Yeah You
7:19
can't do that in a small one You you got
7:20
like a a candy recipe and a fruit recipe
7:23
and a meat recipe and they follow a
7:25
certain way But look when you're in
7:28
commercial production time is money The
7:31
amount of time that you waste trying to
7:33
get your product completely dry as
7:36
opposed to mostly dry that extra few
7:40
hours that you tack on to the end just
7:42
so you can be sure that's fine at home
7:45
in a little freeze dryer But when you're
7:48
doing that at commercial scale uh one
7:51
hour extra on a on a big commercial
7:53
machine per day per per cycle is going
7:56
to cost you a quarter million dollars in
7:58
in lost profits that year So an hour is
8:02
not just something you tack on
8:03
willy-nilly in a commercial machine You
8:06
need to try to tweak your recipes so
8:07
that you're getting your cycle dry as
8:11
quickly as possible in as uniform a
8:13
manner as
8:14
possible
8:16
in in order to capture the margins right
8:20
if if you don't do it right you're going
8:21
to be a margin challenged business Yeah
8:23
So I'm thinking of if I if my recipe is
8:27
whole strawberries versus sliced
8:29
strawberries that's a different process
8:32
and extracting a lot more density of
8:34
those that water in that whole
8:36
strawberry versus a sliced at at thin
8:39
Right So that's why I'm seeing
8:41
inconsistencies with my home freeze
8:43
dryer you would say That's right Okay
8:46
And strawberries are different than
8:47
apples And they're all different than
8:49
blueberries or plums or anything
8:51
anything that's got a skin on it like a
8:53
a nice shiny skin You better be cutting
8:56
that in half because you're not going to
8:58
get a lot of moisture that goes across
8:59
that boundary That's the whole point of
9:01
that skin is to keep the moisture in
9:03
while the fruit is uh is on the vine The
9:06
difference between wanting a fruit and
9:08
another can can be a big difference If
9:10
you're doing apples it's fairly
9:12
straightforward in say a home freeze
9:14
dryer because that's kind of what the
9:16
that recipe is built for is apples or
9:18
strawberries But if you're doing mangoes
9:21
like ripe mangoes you're going to have a
9:23
challenge Um it'll freeze dry your mango
9:27
for you but instead of taking 24
9:29
hoursish it might take 48 hours And why
9:32
is that why is that you're probably
9:34
going to have to tweak your freeze dryer
9:35
to up to be even gentler But mango is
9:38
denser so it has a little bit less water
9:40
but it also has more sugar So the higher
9:43
the sugar content in the water the lower
9:45
the freezing point It's like when you
9:47
throw salt on your on your sidewalk to
9:49
melt the ice in the winter time Well
9:51
guess what you're lowering the freezing
9:53
point of that water Lower freezing
9:56
points in your product makes it harder
9:59
to freeze dry because as soon as you get
10:02
close to or at what's that triple point
10:05
that point where the water freezes or
10:08
vaporizing from ice directly to vapor
10:10
sublimation If you get above that point
10:13
it melts And if the if the ice melts in
10:16
your product while you're freeze drying
10:17
it it's called meltback in the in the
10:19
industry it causes shriveling and
10:22
collapsing and chewy food and and and
10:24
you'll never get what you want So So you
10:27
you have to change your your recipe So
10:29
an example of that would be um pineapple
10:33
then Yeah Because that has a a lower
10:36
freezing point because of all the sugar
10:38
that's in that natural uh pineapple Yep
10:42
So you have to tweak that recipe That's
10:44
why my pineapple takes a long time to
10:46
freeze dry Yeah that's right And and ice
10:48
cream is even worse right ice cream is
10:51
mostly fat and sugar and not that much
10:53
water It's you'll actually have a better
10:56
time freeze drying ice milk right this
10:58
ice cream that's not made with cream
10:59
it's made with milk because it has a
11:01
higher water content So you'll actually
11:03
get a better an easier freeze dry It's
11:05
not necessarily going to be as tasty cuz
11:07
I mean everyone knows that cream is
11:09
really tasty stuff So if you dilute it
11:11
you're going to dilute it But so
11:13
expanding on recipes are there things
11:15
that can't be freeze-dried anything that
11:17
doesn't have a sufficient quantity of
11:19
moisture to begin with like chocolate
11:21
right there's not that much moisture in
11:23
chocolate There's some but not not much
11:24
It's mostly fat and solids and sugars
11:27
It's not going to freeze dry Um it'll
11:29
melt and it might foam up like crazy you
11:31
know because when you draw vacuum on
11:33
something there's a lot of air gas
11:36
bubbles that are incorporated into it
11:37
that you don't even know And if and if
11:39
you don't believe me mix up some uh
11:42
epoxy at at some point and stick it in
11:44
your chamber and draw it in a vacuum and
11:46
and soon as you get to about 20 to
11:48
you'll start to see all these bubbles
11:49
come out Giant bubbles that you're like
11:52
"Where'd that come from?" Well those
11:53
were incorporated into the epoxy The
11:55
same thing with your food It has air in
11:57
it The difference between doing a
11:59
strawberry and a strawberry slurry is
12:01
different recipe because when you make
12:03
it into a slurry you have different
12:04
things to consider It changes the way
12:07
the the water comes out and you're
12:09
actually adding air So you can actually
12:10
have your slurry blow up into foam in
12:14
your system too So if you want why would
12:16
you want to freeze dry chocolate
12:20
if you wanted to experiment with it is
12:21
there any application to it so sure I
12:25
mean because it's going to change the
12:27
texture it won't on chocolate but let's
12:29
say you have chocolate mousse right
12:32
which is a or or ganache right ganache
12:34
is made where you take chocolate and you
12:36
put in hot cream and it it turns into
12:38
this fudge-like consistency When you
12:40
freeze dry it's going to change the
12:42
consistency It's like it's like the
12:44
difference between a a Skittles and a
12:46
freeze-dried Skittles right it's a
12:47
different experience in in your on your
12:49
pallet Okay
12:52
So but but chocolate is going to be a
12:55
challenge Anything with invert sugars um
12:58
is is not going to freeze dry well So
13:01
some people have tried freezing freeze
13:03
drying say Swedish fish and they blow up
13:07
and then as soon as you uh break vacuum
13:11
they collapse again Yeah Why is that and
13:13
the reason is because the invert sugar
13:15
won't
13:16
recristallize Invert sugar is just a
13:18
certain way that you you cook sugar It
13:20
changes the crystallin formula It's like
13:23
um it's closer to uh say the um the corn
13:29
syrup uh
13:31
uh what do you call that stuff that's
13:33
put in all the cans of Coke and whatnot
13:35
You know the Oh the sugar cane Yeah the
13:38
the corn the Well it's the it's the corn
13:41
syrup I can't remember what it's called
13:43
But anyway
13:45
um invert sugar is one thing
13:48
So if you if you try freeze drying a
13:50
certain product and it just won't free
13:53
won't freeze dry at the end of the day
13:55
um it might be that something that you
13:57
can't do and it might not have other
13:58
chemistry in that that prevents it
14:01
Should should someone look at innovating
14:03
like a recipe like hey I've got I've got
14:06
my uh I've got this uh non-alcoholic
14:09
slush that I make for for summers for my
14:13
family of July parties all the time And
14:17
it'd be great if I could basically
14:19
freeze dry that and then it becomes a
14:21
powder and you know basically I can make
14:25
my family recipe slush that's
14:28
non-alcoholic but uh you just put that
14:32
quarter cup of that powder into a glass
14:34
with ice You can put alcohol if you want
14:37
it or you can just fill it up with uh
14:40
water and there you go you've got your
14:42
slush and now we don't have to recreate
14:44
it with the fresh ingredients right is
14:46
that is that just things that like
14:48
innovation is just trying that those
14:51
different things or should you is there
14:53
certain things that you just shouldn't
14:54
even try because it doesn't you're going
14:56
to waste product cuz it's not going to
14:58
freeze dry anyway Uh there's some things
15:01
that I would say don't even bother like
15:03
chocolate right cuz you you you already
15:04
know it doesn't have much moisture in
15:06
something like what you're talking about
15:07
where you're you're freeze drying a
15:09
liquid or a slurry Definitely give it a
15:11
try right give it a try And if it
15:13
doesn't freeze dry well let's say that
15:15
it comes out as still as like fruit
15:16
leather instead of freeze-dried product
15:19
dilute it before you freeze dry it Give
15:22
it more water to give it that matrix
15:24
that something to hold on to so that
15:26
when the vapor goes away it leaves
15:27
behind a nice matrix of something And
15:30
you can you can crush it into powder
15:31
after that Yeah Um I mean the guys here
15:35
at Boretus freeze-dried water right and
15:37
and they say that what was left was this
15:40
really fragile matrix like of of
15:43
crystallin
15:44
uh impurities from the So and but I've
15:47
talked to plenty of people who can't
15:48
freeze dry fruit juices because when
15:50
they draw vacuum it just foams and and
15:52
it just blows up in in their freeze
15:54
dryer Well a there's too much air
15:56
incorporated into it from the processing
15:58
So maybe you could degass it first but
16:00
the other thing you might be able to do
16:01
or have to do is dilute it a little bit
16:03
Give it a little bit more water so that
16:04
when you freeze dry it it leaves more of
16:07
a porous ma matrix left Yeah But yeah
16:11
having your home freeze dryer is a great
16:12
way to prove that something can be
16:14
freeze-dried Now tweaking that recipe so
16:17
you can actually make money on it
16:18
commercially This is where you want to
16:19
have a freeze dryer where you can
16:20
actually get in and tweak the process
16:23
recipe How long what temperature and do
16:26
I want to ramp my temperature up so that
16:28
it it doesn't like suddenly go from one
16:30
temperature to another it's a nice slow
16:31
steady ramp Yep Do I want to create a
16:34
profile over the time that keeps my
16:36
freeze dryer operating at optimum power
16:38
input something that we haven't talked
16:41
about is the thing that drives how fast
16:45
sublimation takes or how how fast
16:48
sublimation takes place is how much heat
16:52
you're putting in It's not the vacuum
16:54
right the pressure does not change your
16:57
sublimation rate All that changes is is
16:59
the temperature at which you are
17:02
sublimating What's actually changing
17:04
your sublimation rate is your heat rate
17:07
And you've got to get the heat in So if
17:09
you've got product that doesn't like to
17:11
get heat in very well like maybe it
17:13
creates a really thick insulation
17:15
barrier you've got to figure out a way
17:17
to get past that What's an example of
17:18
that i have heard of people making
17:20
insulation material right by creating a
17:23
slurry and then freeze drying it Um
17:27
insulation material resists heat
17:30
transfer That's the whole point of it
17:31
like a gels and that kind of thing right
17:35
so if you're freeze drying it and you're
17:37
having difficulty getting the heat into
17:39
the into the ice core So as you as you
17:41
freeze dry something you start with a a
17:43
particle and the ice ice core is the the
17:48
surface of the particle that you're in
17:50
Maybe it's a chunk or whatever but but
17:51
the ice boundary where the sublimation
17:53
is taking place is right at the outside
17:55
but as you freeze dry the ice core gets
17:58
smaller and smaller and this insulation
18:01
layer gets thicker and thicker as you go
18:03
in M now the heat has to go from the
18:05
boundary of your product through the
18:07
insulation layer to your ice core and
18:09
you got bigger and bigger insulation and
18:12
that insulation has a certain R value It
18:15
slows down the heat transfer It makes it
18:17
harder to do So what do you have to do
18:19
you have to tweak your recipe to make
18:21
your shelves hotter so you can get the
18:24
heat going in Um and that's all you can
18:27
do really Or you can change the way you
18:30
get the heat in al together by using a
18:32
different technology like RF or
18:34
microwave And those are canon worms that
18:36
are very difficult to to uh to tackle I
18:41
hope you feel more informed about how to
18:43
create a recipe in freeze drying and
18:45
know a little bit more about what goes
18:47
on in the freeze drying process so that
18:49
you can experiment with your home freeze
18:51
dryer that you have in your home or in
18:53
your existing freeze-drying business And
18:55
if you want to learn more about how to
18:57
start a freeze drying business there's a
18:59
couple things that you can do right now
19:00
And that is subscribe to this channel
19:02
right now It's the freeze-dried business
19:04
Also there's a freeze drying event It's
19:06
called the freeze-dried summit It's
19:08
happening this year in 2025 September
19:10
22nd and 23rd And if you want to
19:12
purchase a ticket to come to this event
19:14
in Boisee Idaho I'd love to see you
19:16
there Ticket information is down below
19:17
in the video description at
19:19
freezedriedsummit.com I've got all the
19:21
information on what is included in this
19:23
event as well as who you're going to see
19:25
speak If you're watching this beyond
19:26
September 2025 well I encourage you to
19:29
still go to freezedrysummit.com because
19:31
more future events related to freeze
19:33
drying is going to be happening at that
19:36
particular website So check out the
19:37
video description right now or follow me
19:39
to the next video with Gene Ligman of
19:42
Sunour
19:45
[Music]

This Freeze-Drying Advice Changed Everything For Me!

The Freeze Dried Business

No Cook Banana Pudding Recipe and TIps - What's cooking with Paula Deen Podcast

Banana Pudding Tips from Paula Deen - What's cooking with Paula Deen Podcast

Freeze-Drying BUZZ | Things You Might Have Missed in February 2024

The Ultimate Guide to Wiping Photos on KODAK PIXPRO AZ652 - How to Delete Photos

How to Zoom in or Zoom Out on Apple Watch

How to Freeze Dry Bit-O-Honey | Freeze Dried Candy | Guide | Tools | Everything You Need to Know

How to Freeze Dry Blueberries the RIGHT WAY with the Roller Berry.

WATCH THIS If You Want To Sell Freeze Dried Candy | A Complete Freeze Dried Candy Guide

Should You Keep Buying Home Freeze Dryers?

Simple Steps to Freeze-Dry Tropical Fruits

SLUDGE KILLING Diesel Bug How To Survival ⚓️ Ep. 103

I Turned Olive Wood Into a Stunning Epoxy Table

Freeze-Dried Candy for Halloween | Freeze-Dried Peeps, Skittles, Candy Corn & Caramel Apple Taffy

I Put Resiners NEW Rotary Tool to the Ultimate Test!

How to Load the Canon Rebel 2000 with 35mm film

Up next in 10

This Freeze-Drying Advice Changed Everything For Me!

The Freeze Dried Business