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The Cloud Show with Magnus Mårtensson ft. Tore Nestenius- Ep: 60
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Aug 6, 2025
Join this live session with Magnus Mårtensson ft. Tore Nestenius for the next episode of The Cloud Show with Magnus Mårtensson on February 19, at 01:05 PM (EST). The show is about cloud leadership and all the important questions relating to cloud projects. Certainly, many matters when a company is going to and wants to be successful in the cloud, are about technology. However, there are many additional matters, adjacent to technology, that we also need to tend to regarding business strategy, human resources, organizational change, planning for a technical cloud approach, and many more questions. These conversations are critical for a healthy cloud and for a swift and accurate cloud approach. GUEST SPEAKER Tore Nestenius is a passionate software development expert who enjoys independently sharing his knowledge with others. He provides training, consulting, and coaching services to businesses and aspiring developers, helping them build innovative, secure, and scalable systems. 📺 CSharp TV - Dev Streaming Destination http://csharp.tv 🌎 C# Corner - Community of Software and Data Developers https://www.c-sharpcorner.com #CSharpTV #csharpcorner #TheCloudShow #CSharp #interview
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0:02
Hello friends good evening good morning
0:04
Hello friends good evening good morning
0:04
Hello friends good evening good morning and wherever you are and so forth so we
0:08
and wherever you are and so forth so we
0:08
and wherever you are and so forth so we are going to talk today on the cloud
0:10
are going to talk today on the cloud
0:10
are going to talk today on the cloud show about a very important topic well I
0:12
show about a very important topic well I
0:12
show about a very important topic well I mean many of our topics are very
0:14
mean many of our topics are very
0:14
mean many of our topics are very important this one as well we're going
0:16
important this one as well we're going
0:16
important this one as well we're going to talk about certification we're going
0:18
to talk about certification we're going
0:18
to talk about certification we're going to talk about how to prepare for a
0:21
to talk about how to prepare for a
0:21
to talk about how to prepare for a certification and um training material
0:24
certification and um training material
0:24
certification and um training material and and various things and being
0:26
and and various things and being
0:26
and and various things and being certified in this case uh probably
0:29
certified in this case uh probably
0:29
certified in this case uh probably specifically focusing on aure and
0:31
specifically focusing on aure and
0:31
specifically focusing on aure and talking about how to study and pass the
0:35
talking about how to study and pass the
0:35
talking about how to study and pass the a204 Azure developer the Hardway and to
0:40
a204 Azure developer the Hardway and to
0:40
a204 Azure developer the Hardway and to do that we have with us as always at the
0:42
do that we have with us as always at the
0:42
do that we have with us as always at the at the cloud show we have an expert we
0:44
at the cloud show we have an expert we
0:44
at the cloud show we have an expert we have a star on the show his name is t
0:48
have a star on the show his name is t
0:48
have a star on the show his name is t [Music]
0:57
Estus hello my friend
1:01
it's good to see you yeah hi hi Magnus
1:04
it's good to see you yeah hi hi Magnus
1:04
it's good to see you yeah hi hi Magnus nice to see you too it's a long time ago
1:07
nice to see you too it's a long time ago
1:07
nice to see you too it's a long time ago was it the S conference in gurg last six
1:11
was it the S conference in gurg last six
1:11
was it the S conference in gurg last six months that's probably true we've known
1:13
months that's probably true we've known
1:13
months that's probably true we've known each other for a bit and a half in this
1:15
each other for a bit and a half in this
1:15
each other for a bit and a half in this in this industry in this tech industry
1:18
in this industry in this tech industry
1:18
in this industry in this tech industry come together at various conferences Etc
1:21
come together at various conferences Etc
1:21
come together at various conferences Etc yeah
1:22
yeah
1:23
yeah um I remember listening to your early
1:26
um I remember listening to your early
1:26
um I remember listening to your early kind of as talks kind
1:28
kind of as talks kind
1:28
kind of as talks kind was or there kind of like 10 10 years
1:32
was or there kind of like 10 10 years
1:32
was or there kind of like 10 10 years ago you you're doing your juice good
1:35
ago you you're doing your juice good
1:35
ago you you're doing your juice good thing in malma that's true that's true
1:37
thing in malma that's true that's true
1:37
thing in malma that's true that's true it's been a while yeah well thank you
1:39
it's been a while yeah well thank you
1:39
it's been a while yeah well thank you for for for reminiscing for a bit there
1:41
for for for reminiscing for a bit there
1:41
for for for reminiscing for a bit there that's um yeah many years of of being in
1:44
that's um yeah many years of of being in
1:44
that's um yeah many years of of being in the community and having a lot of fun so
1:47
the community and having a lot of fun so
1:47
the community and having a lot of fun so also on this show um this show is is
1:50
also on this show um this show is is
1:50
also on this show um this show is is about the topic which is top of mind for
1:52
about the topic which is top of mind for
1:52
about the topic which is top of mind for you and we're going to talk about that
1:53
you and we're going to talk about that
1:53
you and we're going to talk about that but first I want to know I want you to
1:55
but first I want to know I want you to
1:55
but first I want to know I want you to tell the audience just a little bit
1:56
tell the audience just a little bit
1:56
tell the audience just a little bit about t Estus what's up with you so
2:00
about t Estus what's up with you so
2:00
about t Estus what's up with you so microsoft.net MVP I just got my MVP
2:02
microsoft.net MVP I just got my MVP
2:02
microsoft.net MVP I just got my MVP award U for like two months ago so kind
2:05
award U for like two months ago so kind
2:05
award U for like two months ago so kind of yay this was the time you know that
2:07
of yay this was the time you know that
2:07
of yay this was the time you know that was good um so I work as a full-time
2:10
was good um so I work as a full-time
2:10
was good um so I work as a full-time trainer instructor and consultant so I
2:13
trainer instructor and consultant so I
2:13
trainer instructor and consultant so I create training material in the area of
2:16
create training material in the area of
2:16
create training material in the area of of net Asher security and
2:20
of net Asher security and
2:20
of net Asher security and architecture and I always been you know
2:23
architecture and I always been you know
2:23
architecture and I always been you know passionate about sharing knowledge so
2:26
passionate about sharing knowledge so
2:26
passionate about sharing knowledge so way back in the kind of stone age of the
2:28
way back in the kind of stone age of the
2:28
way back in the kind of stone age of the internet I created my first website it
2:30
internet I created my first website it
2:31
internet I created my first website it that became a site called programmer
2:33
that became a site called programmer
2:33
that became a site called programmer heaven so at programmer 7 it became a
2:36
heaven so at programmer 7 it became a
2:36
heaven so at programmer 7 it became a pretty large web Community back then
2:38
pretty large web Community back then
2:38
pretty large web Community back then with like a half a million visitors a
2:41
with like a half a million visitors a
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with like a half a million visitors a month you know with downloads of forums
2:44
month you know with downloads of forums
2:44
month you know with downloads of forums and links doing everything so I've been
2:47
and links doing everything so I've been
2:47
and links doing everything so I've been around for quite some time and uh you
2:50
around for quite some time and uh you
2:50
around for quite some time and uh you know programs in for almost you know
2:53
know programs in for almost you know
2:53
know programs in for almost you know over 40 years so it's yeah yeah it's
2:57
over 40 years so it's yeah yeah it's
2:57
over 40 years so it's yeah yeah it's yeah yeah yeah for sure so and and you a
3:00
yeah yeah yeah for sure so and and you a
3:00
yeah yeah yeah for sure so and and you a freelance you're a trainer and and a
3:02
freelance you're a trainer and and a
3:02
freelance you're a trainer and and a consultant your company TN data is that
3:05
consultant your company TN data is that
3:05
consultant your company TN data is that right yes the T and data consultant or
3:07
right yes the T and data consultant or
3:07
right yes the T and data consultant or two one is the data consult but the name
3:09
two one is the data consult but the name
3:09
two one is the data consult but the name is you know naming is hard you know
3:11
is you know naming is hard you know
3:12
is you know naming is hard you know naming is hard all right so so you you
3:15
naming is hard all right so so you you
3:15
naming is hard all right so so you you you run your own show and and uh create
3:19
you run your own show and and uh create
3:19
you run your own show and and uh create uh training materials and deliver
3:21
uh training materials and deliver
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uh training materials and deliver trainings and and so forth so yeah and
3:24
trainings and and so forth so yeah and
3:24
trainings and and so forth so yeah and and so okay cool so let's let's pivot
3:27
and so okay cool so let's let's pivot
3:27
and so okay cool so let's let's pivot into into the the meat of this you were
3:29
into into the the meat of this you were
3:29
into into the the meat of this you were saying to me I asked you what should we
3:32
saying to me I asked you what should we
3:32
saying to me I asked you what should we talk about on the show you know um and
3:34
talk about on the show you know um and
3:34
talk about on the show you know um and when I invited you to to come on and you
3:36
when I invited you to to come on and you
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when I invited you to to come on and you were like hey can we talk about how I
3:37
were like hey can we talk about how I
3:38
were like hey can we talk about how I studied and passed the AZ 204 the hard
3:41
studied and passed the AZ 204 the hard
3:41
studied and passed the AZ 204 the hard way I'm like yes yes but tell me more
3:45
way I'm like yes yes but tell me more
3:45
way I'm like yes yes but tell me more okay so so last summer okay I passed the
3:48
okay so so last summer okay I passed the
3:48
okay so so last summer okay I passed the is 900 I thought it it is a good kind of
3:50
is 900 I thought it it is a good kind of
3:50
is 900 I thought it it is a good kind of warm up to get into certification track
3:53
warm up to get into certification track
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warm up to get into certification track and then I it came to B A 204 you know
3:56
and then I it came to B A 204 you know
3:56
and then I it came to B A 204 you know oh what a beast there a big one there's
3:59
oh what a beast there a big one there's
3:59
oh what a beast there a big one there's a lot of things to to to kind of cover
4:01
a lot of things to to to kind of cover
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a lot of things to to to kind of cover but maybe first talk about why did I
4:03
but maybe first talk about why did I
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but maybe first talk about why did I kind of study for it because you know
4:06
kind of study for it because you know
4:06
kind of study for it because you know for me you know I've been click you know
4:08
for me you know I've been click you know
4:08
for me you know I've been click you know using as port and as should see live for
4:11
using as port and as should see live for
4:11
using as port and as should see live for some time but you know you get it
4:14
some time but you know you get it
4:14
some time but you know you get it working but sometimes you don't really
4:16
working but sometimes you don't really
4:16
working but sometimes you don't really understand how it works and why it works
4:19
understand how it works and why it works
4:19
understand how it works and why it works and why I should use this feature or
4:21
and why I should use this feature or
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and why I should use this feature or what does that button do so I thought
4:25
what does that button do so I thought
4:25
what does that button do so I thought that you know it's time to kind of you
4:26
that you know it's time to kind of you
4:26
that you know it's time to kind of you know get serious and really learn the
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know get serious and really learn the
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know get serious and really learn the ropes and learn how ashure you know
4:31
ropes and learn how ashure you know
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ropes and learn how ashure you know Works under the hood so I decided to
4:34
Works under the hood so I decided to
4:34
Works under the hood so I decided to take basa two4 because it's more
4:36
take basa two4 because it's more
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take basa two4 because it's more developer focused compared to the as
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developer focused compared to the as
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developer focused compared to the as said 104 but the more kind of
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said 104 but the more kind of
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said 104 but the more kind of infrastructure focused right so I was I
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infrastructure focused right so I was I
4:43
infrastructure focused right so I was I was just going to say let's let's let's
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was just going to say let's let's let's
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was just going to say let's let's let's quickly check that 104 is infrastructure
4:49
quickly check that 104 is infrastructure
4:49
quickly check that 104 is infrastructure what's it called Administration you know
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what's it called Administration you know
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what's it called Administration you know developer associate something developer
4:54
developer associate something developer
4:54
developer associate something developer associate something like that right and
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associate something like that right and
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associate something like that right and then and then it comes down to a little
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then and then it comes down to a little
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then and then it comes down to a little bit more specifi right then you you go
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bit more specifi right then you you go
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bit more specifi right then you you go for developer focus and that's the 204
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for developer focus and that's the 204
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for developer focus and that's the 204 so you can either just take the 104 or
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so you can either just take the 104 or
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so you can either just take the 104 or or you take the 204 you know you don't
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or you take the 204 you know you don't
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or you take the 204 you know you don't need to take the one4 first okay sure so
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need to take the one4 first okay sure so
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need to take the one4 first okay sure so I went with a two 204 first and you know
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I went with a two 204 first and you know
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I went with a two 204 first and you know as a trainer when I when I you know when
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as a trainer when I when I you know when
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as a trainer when I when I you know when I kind of learn new things my Mantra is
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I kind of learn new things my Mantra is
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I kind of learn new things my Mantra is always that you know you you don't
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always that you know you you don't
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always that you know you you don't understand something until you can
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understand something until you can
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understand something until you can explain it to someone else so in my case
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explain it to someone else so in my case
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explain it to someone else so in my case no okay I've been doing the studying you
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no okay I've been doing the studying you
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no okay I've been doing the studying you know doing the MS learn thing doing some
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know doing the MS learn thing doing some
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know doing the MS learn thing doing some udy training but you know and usually
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udy training but you know and usually
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udy training but you know and usually you would take notes you would write
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you would take notes you would write
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you would take notes you would write down you know in you know in maybe one
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down you know in you know in maybe one
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down you know in you know in maybe one note or or in uh some some Word document
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note or or in uh some some Word document
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note or or in uh some some Word document but in my case you know if I want if I
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but in my case you know if I want if I
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but in my case you know if I want if I really should understand this thing I
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really should understand this thing I
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really should understand this thing I really need to to you know comp condense
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really need to to you know comp condense
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really need to to you know comp condense it down or distill it down to something
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it down or distill it down to something
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it down or distill it down to something that I can actually explain to others so
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that I can actually explain to others so
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that I can actually explain to others so in my case I actually created training
6:02
in my case I actually created training
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in my case I actually created training material you know PowerPoints exercises
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material you know PowerPoints exercises
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material you know PowerPoints exercises you know how would I explain diagnostic
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you know how would I explain diagnostic
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you know how would I explain diagnostic settings in act to someone else to a
6:11
settings in act to someone else to a
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settings in act to someone else to a junior developer for example you know
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junior developer for example you know
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junior developer for example you know that is an excellent question by the way
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that is an excellent question by the way
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that is an excellent question by the way yes or delegated sus access tokens you
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yes or delegated sus access tokens you
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yes or delegated sus access tokens you know what is that how does that work and
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know what is that how does that work and
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know what is that how does that work and so on so during my studies I kind of
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so on so during my studies I kind of
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so on so during my studies I kind of compil everything I learned you know
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compil everything I learned you know
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compil everything I learned you know down into exercises PowerPoints you know
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down into exercises PowerPoints you know
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down into exercises PowerPoints you know how would I teach someone else you know
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how would I teach someone else you know
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how would I teach someone else you know this topic so that was kind of you know
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this topic so that was kind of you know
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this topic so that was kind of you know you know one part um but at the same
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you know one part um but at the same
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you know one part um but at the same time when you want to make exercises for
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time when you want to make exercises for
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time when you want to make exercises for a future Junior developer or senior who
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a future Junior developer or senior who
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a future Junior developer or senior who wants to get go into the cloud I mean
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wants to get go into the cloud I mean
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wants to get go into the cloud I mean doing hello world application is a
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doing hello world application is a
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doing hello world application is a pretty boring thing I mean okay you can
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pretty boring thing I mean okay you can
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pretty boring thing I mean okay you can get H World up and running but you know
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get H World up and running but you know
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get H World up and running but you know now what you want to upload something
7:00
now what you want to upload something
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now what you want to upload something more advanced you know when you want to
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more advanced you know when you want to
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more advanced you know when you want to I mean if you want because my my my my
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I mean if you want because my my my my
7:06
I mean if you want because my my my my thinking is that you know when we go to
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thinking is that you know when we go to
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thinking is that you know when we go to the planet Mars you know when when we
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the planet Mars you know when when we
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the planet Mars you know when when we want to explore Mars we send up robs you
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want to explore Mars we send up robs you
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want to explore Mars we send up robs you know robots doing experiments doing you
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know robots doing experiments doing you
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know robots doing experiments doing you know taking um measurements observing
7:21
know taking um measurements observing
7:21
know taking um measurements observing you know the planet Mars and we need the
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you know the planet Mars and we need the
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you know the planet Mars and we need the same approach when you want to kind of
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same approach when you want to kind of
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same approach when you want to kind of start you know learning about the cloud
7:28
start you know learning about the cloud
7:28
start you know learning about the cloud and Asher you want to send up something
7:31
and Asher you want to send up something
7:31
and Asher you want to send up something more kind of you know competent not
7:33
more kind of you know competent not
7:33
more kind of you know competent not Hello World you want something to send
7:35
Hello World you want something to send
7:35
Hello World you want something to send up that you actually can can use to do
7:38
up that you actually can can use to do
7:38
up that you actually can can use to do do experiments you know to observe uh to
7:43
do experiments you know to observe uh to
7:43
do experiments you know to observe uh to really see you know what what happens
7:46
really see you know what what happens
7:46
really see you know what what happens when I do this thing so while I was kind
7:49
when I do this thing so while I was kind
7:49
when I do this thing so while I was kind of doing my training material you know I
7:52
of doing my training material you know I
7:52
of doing my training material you know I was doing exercises so I decided to
7:55
was doing exercises so I decided to
7:55
was doing exercises so I decided to create an open source project called the
7:58
create an open source project called the
7:58
create an open source project called the cloud debugger for developers so this is
8:01
cloud debugger for developers so this is
8:01
cloud debugger for developers so this is like an an as core application you can
8:05
like an an as core application you can
8:05
like an an as core application you can deploy it to app Services container
8:07
deploy it to app Services container
8:07
deploy it to app Services container instances container apps and then you
8:10
instances container apps and then you
8:10
instances container apps and then you can from that tool do various
8:12
can from that tool do various
8:12
can from that tool do various experiments you can ride a blob storage
8:14
experiments you can ride a blob storage
8:14
experiments you can ride a blob storage you can talk about the storage T in Blob
8:18
you can talk about the storage T in Blob
8:18
you can talk about the storage T in Blob storage you can write your queue you can
8:20
storage you can write your queue you can
8:20
storage you can write your queue you can receive a web hook events from event
8:22
receive a web hook events from event
8:22
receive a web hook events from event grid and so on and so on so you you went
8:27
grid and so on and so on so you you went
8:27
grid and so on and so on so you you went into um understanding and also showing
8:31
into um understanding and also showing
8:31
into um understanding and also showing how to explain I mean learning how to
8:34
how to explain I mean learning how to
8:34
how to explain I mean learning how to explain it but but but showing how to to
8:36
explain it but but but showing how to to
8:37
explain it but but but showing how to to to I would I explain this to someone who
8:38
to I would I explain this to someone who
8:38
to I would I explain this to someone who has never seen this before yeah yeah
8:41
has never seen this before yeah yeah
8:41
has never seen this before yeah yeah right um I have I have a funny anecdote
8:43
right um I have I have a funny anecdote
8:43
right um I have I have a funny anecdote there I hope it's funny I think it is
8:46
there I hope it's funny I think it is
8:46
there I hope it's funny I think it is um some years ago now this this has been
8:49
um some years ago now this this has been
8:49
um some years ago now this this has been a
8:50
a
8:50
a while there was a a little app that was
8:54
while there was a a little app that was
8:54
while there was a a little app that was sent out um in production and the
8:57
sent out um in production and the
8:57
sent out um in production and the performance was not the greatest I I we
9:00
performance was not the greatest I I we
9:00
performance was not the greatest I I we have ever seen right they had some
9:01
have ever seen right they had some
9:02
have ever seen right they had some issues with it and um I took a look at
9:06
issues with it and um I took a look at
9:06
issues with it and um I took a look at it and it wasn't very difficult to see I
9:08
it and it wasn't very difficult to see I
9:08
it and it wasn't very difficult to see I did check like what kind of traffic are
9:10
did check like what kind of traffic are
9:10
did check like what kind of traffic are we talking about against this blob
9:12
we talking about against this blob
9:12
we talking about against this blob storage account which was the scenario
9:14
storage account which was the scenario
9:14
storage account which was the scenario here the application called The Blob
9:15
here the application called The Blob
9:15
here the application called The Blob storage account and um and I saw that
9:18
storage account and um and I saw that
9:18
storage account and um and I saw that there were some strange patterns
9:20
there were some strange patterns
9:20
there were some strange patterns recurring patterns in the the the
9:22
recurring patterns in the the the
9:22
recurring patterns in the the the storage
9:23
storage
9:23
storage communication and um then I I dug into
9:27
communication and um then I I dug into
9:27
communication and um then I I dug into that code and I could immediately find
9:29
that code and I could immediately find
9:29
that code and I could immediately find pretty much a copy paste from the
9:31
pretty much a copy paste from the
9:31
pretty much a copy paste from the Microsoft sample page this is how you
9:33
Microsoft sample page this is how you
9:33
Microsoft sample page this is how you connect to storage and he the the
9:36
connect to storage and he the the
9:36
connect to storage and he the the developer had copied that and pasted it
9:37
developer had copied that and pasted it
9:37
developer had copied that and pasted it in so clearly um he was ill equipped for
9:41
in so clearly um he was ill equipped for
9:41
in so clearly um he was ill equipped for the task let's say right he just copy
9:43
the task let's say right he just copy
9:43
the task let's say right he just copy pasted and and see that it worked so
9:45
pasted and and see that it worked so
9:45
pasted and and see that it worked so what what he wound up doing was for
9:47
what what he wound up doing was for
9:47
what what he wound up doing was for every request that he made to storage he
9:49
every request that he made to storage he
9:50
every request that he made to storage he would always check if the container was
9:52
would always check if the container was
9:52
would always check if the container was available if there was a container with
9:54
available if there was a container with
9:54
available if there was a container with that name so essentially he doubled both
9:56
that name so essentially he doubled both
9:56
that name so essentially he doubled both the latency of course but also doubled
9:59
the latency of course but also doubled
9:59
the latency of course but also doubled the transactions because he asked first
10:01
the transactions because he asked first
10:01
the transactions because he asked first like is the folder there yes okay I'll
10:04
like is the folder there yes okay I'll
10:04
like is the folder there yes okay I'll put a blob in it is the folder there yes
10:06
put a blob in it is the folder there yes
10:06
put a blob in it is the folder there yes I'll put it was always there it was
10:08
I'll put it was always there it was
10:08
I'll put it was always there it was always there right and it was really
10:11
always there right and it was really
10:11
always there right and it was really funny because it was such a basic
10:14
funny because it was such a basic
10:14
funny because it was such a basic challenge right and that's what I um see
10:17
challenge right and that's what I um see
10:17
challenge right and that's what I um see sometimes also to Pivot back to what you
10:20
sometimes also to Pivot back to what you
10:20
sometimes also to Pivot back to what you were talking about
10:23
were talking about
10:23
were talking about when someone is doing a demo or a little
10:28
when someone is doing a demo or a little
10:28
when someone is doing a demo or a little EX exercise they go like okay so here's
10:31
EX exercise they go like okay so here's
10:31
EX exercise they go like okay so here's how you can do it yeah and then the
10:33
how you can do it yeah and then the
10:33
how you can do it yeah and then the person who receives that maybe doesn't
10:35
person who receives that maybe doesn't
10:35
person who receives that maybe doesn't understand right so they copy paste and
10:37
understand right so they copy paste and
10:37
understand right so they copy paste and the result can be humorous or or just
10:40
the result can be humorous or or just
10:40
the result can be humorous or or just really bad one example is that you know
10:44
really bad one example is that you know
10:44
really bad one example is that you know when you talk to when you connect to Ash
10:46
when you talk to when you connect to Ash
10:46
when you talk to when you connect to Ash from maybe net or Java whatever language
10:49
from maybe net or Java whatever language
10:49
from maybe net or Java whatever language you typically use the default Ash
10:51
you typically use the default Ash
10:51
you typically use the default Ash credentials class you know new you know
10:54
credentials class you know new you know
10:54
credentials class you know new you know get token great it works but do you
10:57
get token great it works but do you
10:57
get token great it works but do you really understand you know what happens
11:00
really understand you know what happens
11:00
really understand you know what happens inside and for me you know there can be
11:03
inside and for me you know there can be
11:03
inside and for me you know there can be some
11:04
some
11:04
some pretty bad you know results if you don't
11:08
pretty bad you know results if you don't
11:08
pretty bad you know results if you don't fully understand and fully configured
11:10
fully understand and fully configured
11:10
fully understand and fully configured properly because if it does not if it
11:12
properly because if it does not if it
11:13
properly because if it does not if it can't find any credentials to use it
11:15
can't find any credentials to use it
11:15
can't find any credentials to use it might take up to eight to 10 seconds for
11:18
might take up to eight to 10 seconds for
11:18
might take up to eight to 10 seconds for it to complete and you know those
11:21
it to complete and you know those
11:21
it to complete and you know those insights you can actually get with my
11:23
insights you can actually get with my
11:23
insights you can actually get with my tool and and of course the default as
11:26
tool and and of course the default as
11:26
tool and and of course the default as credentials is you know is really
11:27
credentials is you know is really
11:27
credentials is you know is really powerful does a do a lot of things
11:30
powerful does a do a lot of things
11:30
powerful does a do a lot of things really kind of out convenient but
11:32
really kind of out convenient but
11:32
really kind of out convenient but there's very little insights into how it
11:36
there's very little insights into how it
11:36
there's very little insights into how it actually works internally and of course
11:39
actually works internally and of course
11:39
actually works internally and of course what do I do well I download the source
11:42
what do I do well I download the source
11:42
what do I do well I download the source code create a class Library copy the
11:44
code create a class Library copy the
11:44
code create a class Library copy the source code and add my own kind of
11:46
source code and add my own kind of
11:46
source code and add my own kind of debugging hops into the actual kind of
11:49
debugging hops into the actual kind of
11:49
debugging hops into the actual kind of class into the code so I can actually
11:52
class into the code so I can actually
11:52
class into the code so I can actually follow and see exactly which credential
11:56
follow and see exactly which credential
11:56
follow and see exactly which credential was used what happens internally which
11:59
was used what happens internally which
11:59
was used what happens internally which which one was selected that is not
12:01
which one was selected that is not
12:01
which one was selected that is not really that obvious you know which
12:03
really that obvious you know which
12:03
really that obvious you know which credential am I actually
12:05
credential am I actually
12:06
credential am I actually using get it so that is also part of the
12:09
using get it so that is also part of the
12:09
using get it so that is also part of the kind of cloud debugger you know to to
12:11
kind of cloud debugger you know to to
12:11
kind of cloud debugger you know to to really give you the insights into how
12:14
really give you the insights into how
12:14
really give you the insights into how thing actually works under the hood
12:16
thing actually works under the hood
12:16
thing actually works under the hood because other is like your example you
12:19
because other is like your example you
12:19
because other is like your example you know you you check for the container if
12:22
know you you check for the container if
12:22
know you you check for the container if it exist every time because you don't
12:24
it exist every time because you don't
12:24
it exist every time because you don't look under the hood and I think that is
12:27
look under the hood and I think that is
12:27
look under the hood and I think that is the same thing when you work with
12:28
the same thing when you work with
12:28
the same thing when you work with database for example Entity framework or
12:31
database for example Entity framework or
12:31
database for example Entity framework or or any kind of database Library you work
12:34
or any kind of database Library you work
12:34
or any kind of database Library you work with it it works but have you actually
12:36
with it it works but have you actually
12:36
with it it works but have you actually checked the SQL against your SQL Server
12:38
checked the SQL against your SQL Server
12:38
checked the SQL against your SQL Server you know using a profile to look at what
12:41
you know using a profile to look at what
12:41
you know using a profile to look at what you actually sending to the database and
12:44
you actually sending to the database and
12:44
you actually sending to the database and sometimes it can be really really you
12:46
sometimes it can be really really you
12:46
sometimes it can be really really you know catastrophic you know amount of bad
12:49
know catastrophic you know amount of bad
12:50
know catastrophic you know amount of bad quer queries that you make that's that's
12:53
quer queries that you make that's that's
12:53
quer queries that you make that's that's absolutely true I've seen seen a lot of
12:56
absolutely true I've seen seen a lot of
12:56
absolutely true I've seen seen a lot of that as well so I'm kind of sitting here
12:58
that as well so I'm kind of sitting here
12:58
that as well so I'm kind of sitting here SM smiling about it but it's really
13:00
SM smiling about it but it's really
13:00
SM smiling about it but it's really interesting how
13:02
interesting how
13:02
interesting how you uh describe exactly this that you
13:05
you uh describe exactly this that you
13:05
you uh describe exactly this that you can download um much of this is open
13:08
can download um much of this is open
13:08
can download um much of this is open source the sdks and and the various
13:10
source the sdks and and the various
13:10
source the sdks and and the various things you can literally just download
13:12
things you can literally just download
13:12
things you can literally just download them and run them yourself on your own
13:14
them and run them yourself on your own
13:14
them and run them yourself on your own machine and and technically if you
13:16
machine and and technically if you
13:16
machine and and technically if you wanted to modify them that's that's
13:18
wanted to modify them that's that's
13:18
wanted to modify them that's that's absolutely possible to do as well um
13:20
absolutely possible to do as well um
13:20
absolutely possible to do as well um Microsoft maybe won't accept the PLL
13:23
Microsoft maybe won't accept the PLL
13:23
Microsoft maybe won't accept the PLL request on your change not not
13:26
request on your change not not
13:26
request on your change not not necessarily the case but at least it is
13:28
necessarily the case but at least it is
13:28
necessarily the case but at least it is open Source in the in the way that they
13:30
open Source in the in the way that they
13:30
open Source in the in the way that they share it openly um because like a really
13:35
share it openly um because like a really
13:35
share it openly um because like a really a really big problem in this space is
13:38
a really big problem in this space is
13:38
a really big problem in this space is that uh good app developers right um
13:44
that uh good app developers right um
13:44
that uh good app developers right um maybe know exactly what how to develop
13:46
maybe know exactly what how to develop
13:46
maybe know exactly what how to develop the application maybe know exactly how
13:48
the application maybe know exactly how
13:48
the application maybe know exactly how to well technically normally communicate
13:50
to well technically normally communicate
13:50
to well technically normally communicate with a database yes but they don't
13:54
with a database yes but they don't
13:54
with a database yes but they don't always and this has has been true so
13:56
always and this has has been true so
13:56
always and this has has been true so many times for me and and professionally
13:59
many times for me and and professionally
13:59
many times for me and and professionally don't necessarily always know what it
14:02
don't necessarily always know what it
14:02
don't necessarily always know what it takes to run an application in a cloud
14:05
takes to run an application in a cloud
14:05
takes to run an application in a cloud hosting environment yes yes that's a big
14:08
hosting environment yes yes that's a big
14:08
hosting environment yes yes that's a big challenge right so so how how do you
14:11
challenge right so so how how do you
14:11
challenge right so so how how do you feel how do you feel that this differs
14:13
feel how do you feel that this differs
14:13
feel how do you feel that this differs from you know not Cloud hosted if if
14:15
from you know not Cloud hosted if if
14:15
from you know not Cloud hosted if if there's such a I mean maybe it's not
14:16
there's such a I mean maybe it's not
14:16
there's such a I mean maybe it's not easy to explain but anyway let's I
14:18
easy to explain but anyway let's I
14:18
easy to explain but anyway let's I really think that that today this you
14:22
really think that that today this you
14:22
really think that that today this you know most developers seems kind of stop
14:25
know most developers seems kind of stop
14:25
know most developers seems kind of stop when it come to kind of deployment you
14:27
when it come to kind of deployment you
14:27
when it come to kind of deployment you know where you you know how to develop
14:29
know where you you know how to develop
14:29
know where you you know how to develop you know great Cod but then you want to
14:31
you know great Cod but then you want to
14:31
you know great Cod but then you want to talk about you know devops or kind of
14:34
talk about you know devops or kind of
14:34
talk about you know devops or kind of just a deployment and the kind of scary
14:38
just a deployment and the kind of scary
14:38
just a deployment and the kind of scary you know environment in production you
14:40
you know environment in production you
14:40
you know environment in production you know talking about you know Den service
14:43
know talking about you know Den service
14:43
know talking about you know Den service attacks the security side of things but
14:45
attacks the security side of things but
14:45
attacks the security side of things but logging what should we log uh I mean we
14:48
logging what should we log uh I mean we
14:48
logging what should we log uh I mean we don't want to log too much we don't want
14:50
don't want to log too much we don't want
14:50
don't want to log too much we don't want to log too little we want to have
14:52
to log too little we want to have
14:52
to log too little we want to have insights we want to make it deployment
14:54
insights we want to make it deployment
14:54
insights we want to make it deployment friendly we want it to be kind of a you
14:57
friendly we want it to be kind of a you
14:57
friendly we want it to be kind of a you know production ready production
14:59
know production ready production
14:59
know production ready production friendly so the operation guys can
15:02
friendly so the operation guys can
15:02
friendly so the operation guys can actually deploy it for example so I
15:04
actually deploy it for example so I
15:04
actually deploy it for example so I really think that that we have a lack of
15:07
really think that that we have a lack of
15:07
really think that that we have a lack of understanding of life in production uh
15:09
understanding of life in production uh
15:09
understanding of life in production uh that's probably true Hest if it's on
15:12
that's probably true Hest if it's on
15:12
that's probably true Hest if it's on site or in the cloud it's the same
15:14
site or in the cloud it's the same
15:14
site or in the cloud it's the same problems you know understanding the the
15:16
problems you know understanding the the
15:16
problems you know understanding the the reality of you know what can go wrong
15:19
reality of you know what can go wrong
15:19
reality of you know what can go wrong you know when a you know container does
15:21
you know when a you know container does
15:21
you know when a you know container does not start up how do you troubleshoot
15:24
not start up how do you troubleshoot
15:24
not start up how do you troubleshoot that when networking with ports and you
15:27
that when networking with ports and you
15:27
that when networking with ports and you know use p 8080 instead of bort 80 and
15:30
know use p 8080 instead of bort 80 and
15:30
know use p 8080 instead of bort 80 and you know small details about how do you
15:33
you know small details about how do you
15:33
you know small details about how do you make things more you know production
15:36
make things more you know production
15:36
make things more you know production friendly I think
15:37
friendly I think
15:38
friendly I think that the thing that is lacking today
15:41
that the thing that is lacking today
15:41
that the thing that is lacking today yeah that that that I agree with a lot
15:43
yeah that that that I agree with a lot
15:43
yeah that that that I agree with a lot so and I see the same uh types of
15:45
so and I see the same uh types of
15:45
so and I see the same uh types of challenges out there like I like I
15:48
challenges out there like I like I
15:48
challenges out there like I like I described like in some um developers
15:52
described like in some um developers
15:52
described like in some um developers maybe a great developer but that doesn't
15:54
maybe a great developer but that doesn't
15:54
maybe a great developer but that doesn't make them automatically a great Cloud
15:56
make them automatically a great Cloud
15:56
make them automatically a great Cloud developer because there are things you
15:57
developer because there are things you
15:57
developer because there are things you have to understand and know about that
15:59
have to understand and know about that
15:59
have to understand and know about that environment to be able to build an
16:02
environment to be able to build an
16:03
environment to be able to build an optimized solution depending on your
16:05
optimized solution depending on your
16:05
optimized solution depending on your optimization priorities is it cost First
16:07
optimization priorities is it cost First
16:07
optimization priorities is it cost First is it Security First what what concern
16:09
is it Security First what what concern
16:09
is it Security First what what concern is bothering me the most or where where
16:12
is bothering me the most or where where
16:12
is bothering me the most or where where should I put my emphasis and of course
16:14
should I put my emphasis and of course
16:14
should I put my emphasis and of course uh all the devops surroundings and and
16:17
uh all the devops surroundings and and
16:17
uh all the devops surroundings and and and automations yes and and like
16:20
and automations yes and and like
16:20
and automations yes and and like debugging logging there's just because
16:23
debugging logging there's just because
16:23
debugging logging there's just because you're a good developer doesn't mean you
16:24
you're a good developer doesn't mean you
16:24
you're a good developer doesn't mean you know all those things right that's not
16:26
know all those things right that's not
16:26
know all those things right that's not the same thing so if you were to so let
16:29
the same thing so if you were to so let
16:29
the same thing so if you were to so let me let me just say this like let me
16:30
me let me just say this like let me
16:30
me let me just say this like let me check because we're about to to begin to
16:32
check because we're about to to begin to
16:32
check because we're about to to begin to round off I love these conversations
16:33
round off I love these conversations
16:34
round off I love these conversations they always run out too fast if somebody
16:37
they always run out too fast if somebody
16:37
they always run out too fast if somebody um doesn't have the cloud Foundation yet
16:41
um doesn't have the cloud Foundation yet
16:41
um doesn't have the cloud Foundation yet they want to develop an application and
16:43
they want to develop an application and
16:43
they want to develop an application and probably host it in the Asher Cloud yes
16:45
probably host it in the Asher Cloud yes
16:45
probably host it in the Asher Cloud yes how should they appro I mean one way to
16:47
how should they appro I mean one way to
16:47
how should they appro I mean one way to approach this is to to check out your
16:49
approach this is to to check out your
16:49
approach this is to to check out your website and go and and take your course
16:51
website and go and and take your course
16:52
website and go and and take your course that's that would be one really good
16:54
that's that would be one really good
16:54
that's that would be one really good way yay but but outside of that how do I
16:58
way yay but but outside of that how do I
16:58
way yay but but outside of that how do I Ro this this
17:00
Ro this this
17:00
Ro this this topic uh I mean it's really really you
17:03
topic uh I mean it's really really you
17:03
topic uh I mean it's really really you know a big thing I mean of course you to
17:06
know a big thing I mean of course you to
17:06
know a big thing I mean of course you to start with maybe app Services it's
17:09
start with maybe app Services it's
17:09
start with maybe app Services it's pretty kind of somewhat easy to get
17:11
pretty kind of somewhat easy to get
17:11
pretty kind of somewhat easy to get started but even in app Services it easy
17:15
started but even in app Services it easy
17:15
started but even in app Services it easy to get confused about the ab service
17:16
to get confused about the ab service
17:16
to get confused about the ab service plan and app services so maybe I think
17:19
plan and app services so maybe I think
17:20
plan and app services so maybe I think actually I think the container instances
17:22
actually I think the container instances
17:22
actually I think the container instances is a simp rout because there's a less
17:24
is a simp rout because there's a less
17:24
is a simp rout because there's a less you know you know things you have to
17:27
you know you know things you have to
17:27
you know you know things you have to understand to Gra
17:29
understand to Gra
17:29
understand to Gra sure you need to understand containers
17:31
sure you need to understand containers
17:31
sure you need to understand containers but
17:31
but
17:31
but today being you know understanding
17:34
today being you know understanding
17:34
today being you know understanding containers I think is a must in most
17:36
containers I think is a must in most
17:36
containers I think is a must in most kind of set up so actual container
17:40
kind of set up so actual container
17:40
kind of set up so actual container instances I think is really the simplest
17:42
instances I think is really the simplest
17:42
instances I think is really the simplest way to get something up and and running
17:45
way to get something up and and running
17:45
way to get something up and and running um in the cloud today I would yeah know
17:48
um in the cloud today I would yeah know
17:48
um in the cloud today I would yeah know I agree and because we're we're
17:50
I agree and because we're we're
17:50
I agree and because we're we're Microsoft MVPs both yourself and and I
17:53
Microsoft MVPs both yourself and and I
17:53
Microsoft MVPs both yourself and and I am as well so congratulations again on
17:55
am as well so congratulations again on
17:55
am as well so congratulations again on on your award uh we we have to we have
17:57
on your award uh we we have to we have
17:57
on your award uh we we have to we have to of course in every show we have to
17:59
to of course in every show we have to
17:59
to of course in every show we have to say Microsoft learn at least once right
18:01
say Microsoft learn at least once right
18:01
say Microsoft learn at least once right I think that's important I think you
18:03
I think that's important I think you
18:03
I think that's important I think you already did so I think we got that I I'm
18:05
already did so I think we got that I I'm
18:05
already did so I think we got that I I'm I'm checking I'm going
18:07
I'm checking I'm going
18:07
I'm checking I'm going that go to Microsoft learn and and check
18:10
that go to Microsoft learn and and check
18:10
that go to Microsoft learn and and check out the material yay yes all right
18:13
out the material yay yes all right
18:13
out the material yay yes all right brilliant well
18:15
brilliant well
18:15
brilliant well so any any parting wisdom here I mean
18:18
so any any parting wisdom here I mean
18:18
so any any parting wisdom here I mean how do you you manag to to get this done
18:21
how do you you manag to to get this done
18:21
how do you you manag to to get this done is there a value in in in taking this
18:24
is there a value in in in taking this
18:24
is there a value in in in taking this path do you regret what you did or or
18:26
path do you regret what you did or or
18:26
path do you regret what you did or or should other people go this way I really
18:28
should other people go this way I really
18:29
should other people go this way I really recommend people to do it because I
18:30
recommend people to do it because I
18:30
recommend people to do it because I think I see so many developers in in you
18:32
think I see so many developers in in you
18:32
think I see so many developers in in you know when I go to customers training
18:35
know when I go to customers training
18:35
know when I go to customers training they you know they work with aser but
18:37
they you know they work with aser but
18:37
they you know they work with aser but when you ask them some fundamental
18:39
when you ask them some fundamental
18:39
when you ask them some fundamental questions they don't really understand
18:41
questions they don't really understand
18:41
questions they don't really understand what they're doing so I really think
18:42
what they're doing so I really think
18:43
what they're doing so I really think that taking a certification taking
18:45
that taking a certification taking
18:45
that taking a certification taking seriously is a good way to solidify your
18:48
seriously is a good way to solidify your
18:48
seriously is a good way to solidify your your you know skills in the cloud and
18:51
your you know skills in the cloud and
18:51
your you know skills in the cloud and understanding the the fundamental pause
18:53
understanding the the fundamental pause
18:53
understanding the the fundamental pause and I really think that you know I came
18:55
and I really think that you know I came
18:55
and I really think that you know I came up with a a way to describe this you
18:57
up with a a way to describe this you
18:57
up with a a way to describe this you know the dup box no blocks you know the
19:00
know the dup box no blocks you know the
19:00
know the dup box no blocks you know the Lego dup big you know fundamental pieces
19:04
Lego dup big you know fundamental pieces
19:04
Lego dup big you know fundamental pieces understanding The Blob storage app
19:06
understanding The Blob storage app
19:06
understanding The Blob storage app Services containers and you know the
19:09
Services containers and you know the
19:09
Services containers and you know the logging infrastructure we have log into
19:10
logging infrastructure we have log into
19:10
logging infrastructure we have log into this workspace you know understanding
19:12
this workspace you know understanding
19:12
this workspace you know understanding those fundamental building blocks I
19:15
those fundamental building blocks I
19:15
those fundamental building blocks I think that's you know where you should
19:18
think that's you know where you should
19:18
think that's you know where you should start then from that it's easy to to
19:20
start then from that it's easy to to
19:20
start then from that it's easy to to move up move on perfect that's that
19:24
move up move on perfect that's that
19:24
move up move on perfect that's that that's a a great summary of of an
19:26
that's a a great summary of of an
19:26
that's a a great summary of of an awesome episode of the cloud show to I
19:28
awesome episode of the cloud show to I
19:28
awesome episode of the cloud show to I want thank you so much for being the
19:30
want thank you so much for being the
19:30
want thank you so much for being the star of the show tonight it was really
19:32
star of the show tonight it was really
19:32
star of the show tonight it was really good having you thanks Magnus was also a
19:34
good having you thanks Magnus was also a
19:34
good having you thanks Magnus was also a blast yeah thank you and audience we
19:37
blast yeah thank you and audience we
19:37
blast yeah thank you and audience we will see you next time on the cloud
19:47
show
19:49
show
19:49
show H yeah we're still live this is um I
19:53
H yeah we're still live this is um I
19:53
H yeah we're still live this is um I don't know how long this could go on
19:55
don't know how long this could go on
19:55
don't know how long this could go on yeah some sometime you know I got a lot
19:57
yeah some sometime you know I got a lot
19:57
yeah some sometime you know I got a lot of stories to tell this and I I'm happy
19:59
of stories to tell this and I I'm happy
19:59
of stories to tell this and I I'm happy to come back later or let me let me try
20:01
to come back later or let me let me try
20:01
to come back later or let me let me try again we will see you next time on the
20:04
again we will see you next time on the
20:04
again we will see you next time on the cloud
20:05
cloud
20:05
cloud show
20:07
show
20:07
show cut this just goes on and
20:12
on you know what we'll do we'll just
20:15
on you know what we'll do we'll just
20:15
on you know what we'll do we'll just leave yeah how about that thank you T
20:18
leave yeah how about that thank you T
20:18
leave yeah how about that thank you T see you next time nice evening see you
20:20
see you next time nice evening see you
20:20
see you next time nice evening see you then bye bye
20:45
[Music]
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