Up next in 10
The challenges of starting a business and buying a football club: Carol Shanahan #8
29K views
Nov 9, 2024
What do fintech and football have in common? Not much, in the grand scheme of things, but entrepreneur Carol Shanahan has a rather unique perspective to share between the two. In conversation with Jennifer Sieg and Emmanuel Nwosu, Shanahan tells the world how she managed to secure her first role in an all-male firm at the age of 17 (with no formal qualifications). Now, she's built a fintech giant and bought a football club. All that and more in today's episode. Get more Founder Favourites here š https://linktr.ee/city__am Get more of City AM š š http://www.cityam.com X(formerly Twitter): http://twitter.com/CityAM Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/cityam Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/city_am LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/company/cityam Produced by: Emmanuel Nwosu, Jennifer Sieg, Joseph Curay Teneda, Joe Lee
View Video Transcript
0:00
yeah and I think the whole ownership of football is messed up because it's it's
0:05
grown from a time that now doesn't exist and it hasn't adapted with it first
0:11
thing we'll doing some assertiveness classes and I got me wrong I think you'll find I'm one of the most
0:16
assertive people you'll meet and she said no car you're one of the most aggressive you're not assertive at all there's a bit of a quip at the end I
0:23
said and if you take nothing else from this conference you know take Never by a football club just don't do it and
0:30
somebody came to me a couple of days within the conference Club came to me and said you know oh you it was really interesting you know that you wish you
0:36
hadn't bought a football club and I said no I didn't say that well you said that you wish you hadn't bought it I said no
0:43
I didn't say that I said what I said was I wouldn't wish it upon you cuz you have to be a certain sort of
0:51
crazy to buy a football club
0:58
[Music] hey y'all welcome back to founder
1:03
favorites today what are we going to talk about Emanuel we're talking about a lot of things I think we're going to
1:09
talk about football a bit which you know nothing about yeah I don't know anything about so if I go a little quiet uh it's
1:14
because Manuel's going to take the wheel um to be fair I'm not you know I'm learning I'm not the biggest football
1:21
expert but I know more than you well right because that's because we call it soccer but um I'm a big big fan of Amer
1:27
I used to call it soccer until I moved here and everyone bullied me for it yeah no I'm joking I American football now or
1:33
NFL I just go like do my specifics NFL yeah but we're talking about actual football real football soccer fo Veil
1:41
actually to to be frank yeah we're we're speaking to the chair the chair the owner actually yes of Port B football
1:48
club right so our guest today is actually a pretty interesting one um her name is Carol Shanahan and she started a
1:57
really really really early fintech in n 1992 before fintech was even a before
2:02
fintech was coined I mean even like I swear 10 years ago people would have been like what's fintech and so it's
2:08
really been modernized lately over the past decade but she's got quite an interesting story um having started her
2:14
first job at what the age of 17 um in a company that was all male and she's kind
2:19
of just dominated the world ever since I mean she went on to start that that tech company in 1992 and not has since grown
2:26
it's called syntic Solutions tic with a c in the middle of it and um now
2:33
she owns Port Vale football club so she's actually got such a such a story to talk about I mean she also has she
2:40
has a charity The Hub Foundation that she started I think um I mean I saw a headline where she's they delivered like
2:46
their a millionth meal like this past summer or something which is amazing she's got her hands and everything
2:52
really so yeah I mean what were you doing at 17 Jenny right uh it's a good question I probably had just started
2:58
driving for a year and trying to pass high school and see she was she was taking
3:04
on was taking on the corporate world trying to apply to universities getting really nervous and paying that
3:10
application fee that I don't miss doing um 17 paying to apply for a job I still pissing off my parents at 17 you were
3:17
actually doing some real I trying to get out of there trying to get out of there I was still you know trying to get you
3:23
know my curfew time at 17 yeah I oh yeah my I had strict parents what time was it
3:29
don't look at me like like I'm some like special case you at me like I was dying you're like oh my
3:34
goodness like yeah that was years ago at 17 I still had a curfew B me yeah I had
3:39
St I had strict parents what time was it at I think my curfew was like 9:10 p.m. change on the weekends no always so
3:47
basically there was a lot of lying got it so you so you forced yourself at the curfew yeah so no I mean I would just
3:53
lie about like a sleepover or oh I'm stuck in traff well that's what you do if you have a curfew yeah so I had no
3:58
choice but to lie so but good the good thing is I had this one friend who had really really really
4:03
cool parents so what we would do is like I would just lie that I was at like I was staying over at his place and the
4:09
both of us would go out doing maiia things see I was the one with the cool parents see I wish I had cool parents
4:15
yeah but you do have cool parents take that back no my parents are cool in their own way but not letting you know
4:21
but I had a curfew at 17 I had a curfew until I went to UNI was that 18 I went
4:26
to un at 19 right so you had a curfew when you were an adult yeah pretty much I had a curfew on the door I was I did a
4:32
gap year and I was working earning my own like living so I was making my own money I still had a cur while I was
4:40
working I was literally working part-time I was working like 25 hours 20 25 hours a week right I respect it fair
4:47
enough still had a curfew I wasn't asking my parents for money anymore but because I was living under their roof
4:52
right not paying any bills in their house I had to abide by their rules yeah
4:57
to be fair that's the way it goes I mean honestly it was either that what you have a curfew I was paying $50 every University
5:05
application at the age of 17 and Carol was starting a pretty kickass journey and I wish I was doing what she was
5:12
doing I wish I you know at 17 I just you know took I'm going to take on the corporate world I feel like every time
5:18
we do these podcasts we not necessarily regret our University degrees but we do question them yeah she doesn't have a
5:25
degree does she yeah Cara doesn't have a degree we question them often I love them don't give me wrong um but yeah I
5:31
think it's going to be an interesting conversation um and I'm really excited about it yeah I mean I'm I'm excited for
5:37
her to to sit down and talk with us she probably call her in as soon as we can cool Carol thank you so much for joining
5:43
us um we are here to talk a little bit about your journey with your business
5:48
synectic solutions um and also your football club uh Port Vil I think it is
5:54
called um so there's a lot to talk about today but I think we should start with what led you into your industry and what
6:02
led you to creating syneptic Solutions in the first place I've always been worked in that area before it was
6:08
fintech before it was it and it was called computers and when I was 17 I my
6:14
first job was as a computer operator on a Mainframe and I was the first woman to
6:21
be employed by this company and I loved it and then I started to do programming
6:29
and then I started to work for a company that did data prep and I worked in the
6:34
Birmingham office and that's where I met Kevin my husband about this time I was 21 and we worked together on um the
6:40
British Leland account we were in the large accounts department and we worked on British landland and at that time
6:47
British landland was huge across the the country and we had a very clear way of
6:54
how we felt business should be done and it should be about people so it's about your customer it it isn't your customer
7:02
isn't British Leland it is Tony and Martin and whoever else and that you're
7:09
dealing with them and that they are also doing a job as well as you're doing your job so it's really important that when
7:16
you're selling them something that you're kind of helping them along their Journey as well and we built this up and
7:23
um and we got to a point where we left that company and both went and did other
7:28
jobs and then we got married had children and Kevin was working for a
7:35
company called terod data which sold huge data databases I mean
7:40
enormous they now you know are smaller than would fit on a phone but in those days it was you a whole room and it
7:47
changed the way things like Walmart in the states did business because they could access their data and how much
7:54
they'd sold very very quickly and it was announced on the 2nd of December M 1991
8:01
I remember it clearly that NCR you know the national cash register as was called that do the ATMs they had bought terrod
8:08
data and I said to Kevin you won't last a week CU I'd worked for NCR in the 80s
8:15
selling and the hardest part for them was to get them to accept the business because they were really risk adverse
8:22
and Kevin sells by asking for forgiveness not permission it's always well I've sold it now you know can we do
8:27
it are we going to do it um and I saidou won't last a week and he said no I agree and so we said what are you going to do
8:34
and he said I really believe in this product and I really believe that large databases are the way the future that is
8:40
what's going to happen he said so I'd like us to have our own business and I'd like us to have a terror data and I said
8:46
they're a million quid start I said you know no and to sell everything we
8:53
own and and this is 1992 million pound that's not even a now million pound and
8:59
uh but he'd sold one to Rover cars because British L had now become Rover
9:04
cars and he went to the Strategic IT director and said look this is what we want to do and they he wrote a a paper
9:13
to go to the main board and said look this is a startup company I think we should support them and he gave us a um
9:19
a contract for six months with no deliverables which was phenomenal I mean you know now I look back and you know
9:26
you look at how companies start they need that seed funding they need that sort of belief in somebody has in that
9:32
Rover cars didn't have a marketing database I mean we're back to you know this is history lesson you know so Rover
9:38
cars didn't have a marketing database and they wanted one because they wanted to know more about their customers and
9:44
so they asked us if we would develop one using their Terror data so we could do
9:50
that remotely so we did actually get to use a terror data from day one it's just that our PC was hooked into to their
9:59
their main frame and we did that and we developed their marketing database we
10:04
then ended up um supporting that and we supported it until Rob cars were no more
10:11
and then we were running Land Rovers and we ran that till tataa took them over and it's not that many years ago that we
10:17
actually stopped doing that so that was our our first thing and we had a uh a
10:23
point about two years in where Rover was 80% of our turnover and we said said
10:29
this isn't good there's too much risk in one place and so our aim was to T turn
10:34
it to being 20% of our turnover whilst growing it so you know it isn't 20% by
10:42
diminishing it it's 20% by growing it but building the rest quicker expanding
10:48
your and expanding the other um but keeping this in mind and NCR reappears
10:54
because the um audit commission which was um a government body which doesn't
11:00
exist anymore but they were there to audit local government they had got a a theory that there was a fraud going on
11:06
in London um they called the tube fraud which is where people were claiming a
11:12
student grant in one London burough and if you had a student grant I mean this really is a history lesson because
11:18
there's no such thing as a student grant anymore um but if you had a student grant you couldn't claim things like
11:23
housing benefit and what people were doing was in one London burough they were claiming student grant and then
11:30
going to another London burough where they lived and claiming a housing benefit and there was no way of being
11:35
able to track this because the two London buroughs didn't speak to each other datawise and so this is the first
11:41
sort of sare into Data sharing and so they asked NCR would they run a pilot on
11:47
six or seven um London buroughs to see if it did exist they didn't want to do it so they asked us if we'd want if we
11:53
would do it um which we did and there was a lot and a lot of Fraud and so then
11:58
we did the next one with all of the London buroughs and that then became the the national fraud initiative which then
12:05
had a an act of parliament so that all of the the um local authorities have to submit their data and now it doesn't
12:12
just look for one fraud it looks for fraud all over and that we grew and we grew and we grew and we outlived the
12:18
audit commission they were disbanded so then we thought oh my goodness what's going to happen to us but the head of
12:24
the audit commission that night on the PM program said look yeah the audit commission's got a lot wrong but it's also got a lot right
12:29
and that will still carry on things like the national fraud initiative is real success that will carry on and there's
12:35
me and Kevin in the car on the A5 that I go yes that was literally that is our
12:40
business because that now was about 80% of our business and so um we we got
12:46
ented the fraud world then on the right side of it I hasten to add and we grew
12:51
and you know you look at things that have changed from those days data security was nothing I remember them
12:59
somebody coming from the he audit commission one day and said would you mind putting the data in a cupboard oh
13:05
yeah yeah yeah could we have a lock yeah yeah yeah we'll have a lock you know I mean but this was right then when it
13:11
really didn't exist nobody saw their value in data or very few saw the value in data and whether it's it's um Land
13:19
Rover beginning to see marketing databases are an important element of your your business model or whether it's
13:26
there is fraud you know so whether it's looking for a very positive thing or a negative thing and having that access to
13:32
that data but data sharing and that was the big thing that we did was started to
13:38
work with with sharing the data and then going back to um CMC where we worked
13:44
where we built this working with people whole area up and this is before po People based was a thing um we just
13:51
automatically did it we were then approached Experian that you'll all have
13:57
heard of Experian have a product called Hunter and Hunter shares data from
14:04
different um financial institutions to share frauds people won't share business
14:10
that won't share sales but they'll share frauds and this was um developed by a
14:15
small company in the north um called MCL and they they developed this product and
14:21
they really had the Monopoly on it and the banks and the building socities didn't mind them having a monopoly on it
14:28
but when it became that um it had been bought by Experian it was then no hang
14:34
on you're too big a player to have a monopoly because you have too much power
14:40
and so they came to us and said would you develop an alternative offering right they said we have no
14:47
clients for you we have no money for you we have no guarantee it's going to work but we'd really like you to do it now
14:55
risk risk I mean how much would that have cost you at the the time to set up on that Venture without any backing cuz
15:02
they said they had no money for you to even go forward with this and it's very hard to say because it was using it was
15:09
using staff so it was using resource that we had now what we had was because the national fraud initiative had a
15:15
2-year cycle so it had a peak and a trough so when you got to the trough you had a lot of spare resource that you
15:23
really needed to give them something to do and so we were able to use it from from that perspective but I remember the
15:30
person who was the main developer there he was getting really upset cuz I'm doing all this work we're not bringing any money in I kep saying you we will we
15:36
will yeah but I'm doing this we're still not bringing any money we will and now it's our biggest um it's our biggest
15:42
product you know so it it did grow and I said at the time you know this isn't betting the farm on this this is betting
15:49
the farm the animals the crops the kids you know this is betting the law so that
15:55
decision to go and develop syrup we call it was the biggest decision that we have
16:01
taken and so people say to me you know buying a football club isn't that a big risk it's not the biggest risk because
16:08
the biggest risk if I looked through my journey would actually have been the risk to to start developing Sira and
16:14
what is it like you know taking these big risks like how do you know it's worth taking I I feel like that's a
16:19
that's a kind of that's a problem a lot of people have whether they entrepreneurs who don't know if they want to quit their day job to start you
16:26
know a business or or like business owners who have two big decisions that
16:31
they have to make a or b which one should I take how do you know it's the right decision or is it that you just
16:36
don't know and it's almost like a blind leap of faith but you also mentioned that you know at the time of you know
16:42
starting is you know nobody really knew the value of data so you had to have somehow felt like there would be a value
16:48
someday so yeah how do you kind of look past that and and take that risk okay
16:54
the risk for me is you go and ask everybody that you can for their opinion
17:02
um particularly and I'm going to go back to the football club for a minute when I was going to buy the football club I
17:08
went into the meeting with the solicitors and there was six lawyers and three accountants and they went around
17:15
the room going you can't do this carol we cannot let you do this deal this is a terrible deal this is an absolutely
17:21
awful deal we cannot let you do this deal tell me why so they tell me all the reasons why they were right it was a
17:27
terrible deal six weeks later you buy the club anyway no no yeah because what I did at the end
17:33
of it I listened to them all and this has been my advice listened to them all I took on what they said and then I said
17:40
okay you are my advisers and I pay you handsomely to do so and I I listen and
17:45
I'll take it in and I've heard what you've said I'm now going to go and ask
17:51
um die on reception it was their office wasn't even my office and I'm lording it about and I said I'm now going to go and
17:57
a on reception to make us all a drink and when I come back you are going to tell me how we do this deal in 6 weeks
18:03
cuz that's all we've got I got the exact number right I said six how did you know that I but it was right I noticed you
18:11
saying six weeks I was like I don't know if he know that no but on right there and then and then I went out and I just
18:18
went what have I just done you know because you do it and you do it because it feels right you can't be cowed by the
18:26
fact that somebody is a lawyer or some body is an accountant but you can't ride ride rough shot either you respect the
18:34
information and you you you respect their education within that area and
18:40
their knowledge and then you bring it into your own situation say how does it fit and they were right it was a
18:47
terrible deal nobody who buys a football club can hold their head up in the business community and say I've just
18:53
done a great deal you haven't because it isn't as long as you know that so you know the risk the only thing I hate is
19:00
not knowing a risk so we've just employed new solicitors um to for Port
19:05
Vale to just go through everything and I've said to them I don't mind the risk
19:10
that I have I just want to know it you don't want to be sat there not knowing what's around the corner or what can
19:16
come MH go going back to like sorry just going back to you know the start of your
19:22
career when you were 17 and you know your first job what was it like because you say you're the first you know you're
19:28
the first Wom the company hire you know what was that like working in that industry working at that company you
19:33
know being the only woman at the company own your own business and now to own your own business like oh well this was
19:39
this was the thing cuz I didn't have any qualifications at all school I had six
19:44
abortive attempts at education through my childhood none of them worked and I
19:49
now have one O Level I eventually got an O Level I've got one O level two H doctorates and an OB and that's that's
19:55
my full lot and at that point I was 77 and I had a friend who worked in a an
20:02
employment recruitment place called Brooky Bureau and I went in there and I'm sat at her desk and she's going
20:08
through this roller deex of all these jobs and she's looking at me and then she's looking nope NOP nope no and in
20:15
the end I went stop enough come on there has to be a job I can do what's the next
20:21
job and she said there's this Mainframe computer operator for this company big
20:26
company and I said yeah fancy that my mom does computers at her work I can do that and I like maths and she says you
20:35
can't Carol because they want 50 levels 2A levels experience driver and a man
20:43
because at that point they could say and I said yeah she said you've got no o levels and a levels you can't drive
20:49
you've got no experience and you're a woman and I went yeah get me an
20:55
interview so she got me this interview and off I charged with this interview this 17year old I can do this I can do
21:02
this with a real attitude and I'm in this 2hour interview and it's it's shift
21:07
work so you know it's night shift and everything and they asked me this ridiculous question because he said you
21:15
you everybody else they're all men and I said yeah yeah yeah I get that and he said uh well what would you do if it was
21:21
1:00 in the morning and one of the men made a pass at you and I said what difference would the time make I mean
21:28
why at 1:00 in the morning you know would I change my reaction just
21:35
wait till 2 it was such a ridiculous thing and even as a 17year old I was no you know
21:42
this makes no sense and then he said called me back for a second interview with his regional manager and after
21:49
about 10 minutes this manager turns around to the first CHF and he said I'm with you I've have no idea why but
21:56
you've got to give her a go and so they they gave me this job and and I went in
22:03
and I tried to begin with to do what a lot of women do when they go into a man's world I tried to outman the men I
22:11
can be more of a man than you I can drink more Guinness smoke more swear more you know make Rudder jokes
22:17
carry more boxes of paper I can do anything that you guys can do I'm just as good and then I got so far and then I
22:25
thought you don't need to do this actually you can just be yourself and
22:30
and then I started to knock that back and then I started to be actually seeing the power of being a woman and of being
22:38
who I am rather than trying to fit in by being something that I'm not so that was
22:44
a big lesson and one that came back when I bought Port Vale because that is very
22:49
much a man's world and then you go in there and it's quite funny because you know they you'll have the players around
22:57
there and I day on a Friday night quite often when we're playing away on a Saturday and they'll say something at
23:03
dinner and they'll say something a bit you know coarse or a bit creu then they'll go Carol then I'll come out with something that's even worse and then
23:09
they'll go oh I can match your slander where did that come from SM more drink more yeah yeah I got that in my locker
23:17
you know you can't out curse me so what is it Carol though about football I mean
23:23
have you always had an act for football or why did you want to buy the football club in the first place when I was
23:29
this isn't a an X Factor sub story I promise you and it ends well born in Lincolnshire my mom left when I was six
23:35
um so this was sort of 1963 and when I was eight um I went to
23:42
live with her she' moved to London but then she moved to West bramage which is where her family had come from and so
23:49
she went to West bromage and she got a job as a doctor's receptionist secretary
23:54
and we lived um on the top floor of this doctor's house and he was um the doctor
24:02
for the West BR albian one of the doctors for there and we lived just down the road from the albian and so as a
24:08
10-year-old girl I would just go and wander down the Birmingham Road and go
24:14
into and I predate the M5 the M5 wasn't there so it was quite an easy walk straight down and then I would just go
24:21
in the brommie road end I never went in the you know the family area or any I lived in Birmingham actually for a year
24:26
did you whereabouts um like right next to New Street oh like Brinley place
24:33
place and New Street yeah that's where I used to live like Kevin and I met at the end at fiveways Edge bastard okay I know
24:41
yeah wow that's I pass my old workplace was like right right next to there um
24:47
Cobalt Square so it's like exactly where you right next to it and across from it now there's like a morison I don't know
24:53
if it was oh it's got a lot postion now um so so the I've lost my track now
25:00
so where where am I um um playing football I think that was oh yeah sorry so yeah so we I'd go and watch the
25:07
football and I was a daddy's girl when I looked back I was a real Daddy's girl
25:12
and my dad lived 120 miles away and he would come and get me for the holidays
25:18
but if you wanted to speak to him you had to walk down to a around telephone box and phone him and he only had a
25:25
phone at work so yeah then I was at school and so I never spoke to him as
25:30
much as I want it's not like now where you've got this full communication with people and and I didn't think this at
25:36
the time but when I look back I think that was my connection with my dad when I was in the bromy road end with every
25:43
and some bloke would pick me up and put me on one of the the barriers cuz there no seats you know put me on something so
25:50
I could see and they won the FA Cup in 68 and Jeff Asel scored um header left
25:57
outside the box first minute of extra time against everon you see you don't forget you don't forget these things they become part of you they become part
26:03
of your DNA but then when I moved I didn't I'm not a lifelong West bromage
26:09
Aban supporter but I certainly was in those days and then when we going
26:16
forward to having synectics and we ended up we got 360 staff we're in Stu on
26:22
Trent and we had three offices and everybody had to walk from one office
26:28
the other and it didn't really work and our culture worked by being together and about feeding people I've always had tea
26:34
ladies I've and I've never had a man in the job which is why they're called tea ladies it's nothing yeah um if there was
26:41
a man would want to come and do it he'd very very welcome um so we have te we feed everybody um so even with the
26:47
football club now at half P 12 the whole club stops and we all go upstairs to the
26:52
main um Hospitality area and we all eat together and I think that's really really important
26:59
but we had these 360 staff and we wanted to bring them all together into one office so we could keep this culture and
27:06
grow the culture and the office that was found was an old Co-op Supermarket uh
27:13
which had then become the co-op's travel headquarters so they had turned it into
27:19
a beautiful office and um it was next door to Port Bale it just happened to be
27:25
next door to B Park and so we went now we' been in quite a nice area up there
27:31
where the three offices were and we did some charity work but we didn't really
27:36
do anything else because there was nothing else really that that entered our Consciousness that really needed
27:41
doing when you get to Bam north of stoke that is an area of such deprivation as
27:50
to be untrue and you go in there and you think my goodness this this area needs help it's lost all of its industry and
27:57
this whole area of Po industrial places within within the UK and how do we look
28:03
after them and what do we do for them I think is is a conversation that we haven't really had and people have
28:09
suffered because of it but a lot of those post-industrial places like in Birmingham like in Bradford in in in
28:15
Stoke have really successful football clubs because that's always been part of
28:21
that industrial landscape and um so that area had lost the pottery companies
28:27
they'd lost the Minds they'd lost the steel works and had nothing and I started to do a lot of community work
28:33
and I started to do this holiday holiday hunger and I hate the term but it is about kids during holiday periods of
28:42
giving them food and activities and really to see how quickly they can
28:47
reenter education at September how far you so that they haven't slipped back
28:52
and I said to Kevin in the end and I also started to go to the port Bale um because we had an issue with the car
28:58
park and the my previous owner was was not committed to the club let's put it that way and but the first day I went
29:06
and I remember we were going into the railway Paddock which is kind of the brommie road end you know equivalent and
29:13
I remember standing there with my friend who's a Veil fan and some of the people who work for me at synectics are Veil
29:19
fans and they said where you going Carol and I said I'm going in there you can't go in there why that's where the lads go
29:25
I said well I'm going where the lads go then AR I but I'm going there um and I love where the ls go and uh I
29:32
went in and I was back I was back to that sense of belonging that sense of
29:37
community that sense of of place you know there's it's such a social leveler
29:42
it doesn't matter who you are when you're on The Terraces you can be a king
29:47
you can be a poper you can be anybody but at that point you're a Veil fan
29:53
you're a Arsenal fan you're a city fan whatever you are but you have that commonality you have that social level
30:01
and I love that about it and so I started to do more work in the community
30:07
I became chair of Port Bale Foundation trust and the um owner really wanted to
30:15
get out and we tried to buy the club off him before and it hadn't really worked and we'd pull back and then um he just
30:24
said that he he went on um the radio after a match and said if it isn't sold
30:31
if she hasn't bought it by the end of the season I'm putting it into Administration and he was the only
30:37
creditor to we knew that it would then go into liquidation and and I remember
30:42
we were at a chelam away match and we sat with quite a lot of the fans behind the the goal and uh I said look if
30:49
there's anything we can do to help in the background in the background anything we can do to help let us know
30:54
and as we were leaving there's a whole group of Ale fans and they said look we really really would like you to buy it
31:00
it was a little bit like the sah thing again you know we really want you to buy it there's nothing in it you know there's you big rest we have nothing
31:06
it's you know this recurring theme driving home I said to Kevin I think we
31:12
got to do this he says yeah I think you're right because my thing was if we really really wanted to help bam we'd go
31:18
and make Port Bale successful and Kevin said how I said haven't got a clo I haven't got a clue what do we know about
31:24
running a football club and and then it's looking then well well we can run an IT company so why can't we grow run a
31:32
football club like what's the main difference running cinetics solution and running portv like what's the big
31:38
difference public scrutiny and expectation right that was a quick answer the fans right I'm sure the fans
31:44
are yeah fans it is because who owns synectics was started by Kevin and
31:51
myself no one would ever question who owns synectics right whereas a football club
31:59
it is who owns it so spiritually it's owned by the fans you know when I talk
32:05
about you know my youngest daughter did a degree in theological studies and she says that you know football is a
32:11
faith-based system and you know it's it's the exactly the same as the system she learned on her degree and it is
32:18
because if you went to your first match as with your dad your uncle your brother
32:23
whoever when you're very very young you become a fan it becomes part of your fabric so if you you know equate it to
32:30
Catholicism you know you become like a cradle a cradle Catholic you know a cradle a cradle Veil fan in this instance now you can leave you can leave
32:37
bam you can go and live anywhere in the world so but you can only lapse you can't leave being a Veil fan so we have
32:45
Veil fans all around the world because they they've immigrated from um from the
32:51
stok on Trent area and so then now they would never change anything because it's
32:57
in their DNA so you do anything it rocks them and you have to be really conscious
33:02
of that um and respectful of that but at the same time they need converts they
33:09
need converts like me and Darren who's my manager now and you know different
33:14
people because we come in and go why are we doing this why we doing that you know I change the the home end and the away
33:21
end from behind one go to behind the other because it made sense in so many areas but I got a real push back from
33:27
number of people because my dad sat there my uncle sat there you know and I
33:32
said well you can come in the week and you can sit there for as long as you like you know you that is that's fine
33:39
but on a on a match day I really need you to be the other end for you know all of these logical reasons but football
33:46
isn't logical to those people it's not I've got one who I mean you know he thinks I'm the devil incarnate still
33:52
because I did that you know so but then there's their expectation of of what do
33:58
they have a right to know yeah and I think the whole ownership of football is messed up
34:04
because it's it's grown from a time that now doesn't exist and it hasn't adapted
34:10
with it so football originally historically was
34:15
owned by local business people and it was part of the local dignitary if you
34:23
like you know as part of that that local area and and so the community side of it
34:29
was always really important and so that's why you get a lot of the you so Everton if you look at Everton for an
34:35
example really really prolific um uh
34:41
Community side to it because that's where its previous owners had really wanted the focus now you're getting a
34:49
lot of American owners or Scandinavian or wherever they're coming from who now
34:55
it is a thing to own an English football club it's business now it's business
35:00
you're worri about your p&l and etc etc so the ownership has switched from it
35:06
you know being the fans that that are owned it and like you know local you know majority stakeholders to this
35:12
Scandinavian who just bought the company out bought the football club company out right and they're changing the matches
35:18
no yeah the goals but you see for them when things don't go well they haven't
35:25
got that real purpose to fall back on so last year we got relegated last year and
35:31
it was terrible it was a horrible horrible experience but our community side was
35:38
prolific we we were doing so much work there our women's team were promoted undefeated in the league it was a bit
35:46
like being bipolar a Saturday was horrendous you know CU you went to the men's team and oh my goodness you know
35:52
you came away from it you couldn't enjoy strictly you couldn't do anything cuz it was so you know you just felt so down
35:58
and then you go on a Sunday you'd watch the women and oh my goodness it's you know it's phenomenal so it is this this
36:05
multifaceted area and I think if somebody comes in and they are only
36:10
buying the men's first team and then anything that supports that then I think
36:16
football's really got an issue because if football is of the people for the
36:21
people then the people have to be in the middle of it but then you get to a point well okay if I'm putting my own personal
36:28
money into if if anybody if anybody is putting their own personal money into it what rights do
36:35
they have back so there's this whole debate I was at a conference a couple of
36:40
weeks ago and when you do the introduction at the beginning you say who you are there's a bit of a quip at the end I said and if you take nothing
36:47
else from this conference you know take Never by a football club just don't do it and somebody came to me a couple of
36:54
days within the conference Club came to me and said you know oh you know really interesting you know that you wish you hadn't bought the football club and I
37:00
said no I didn't say that well you said that you wish you hadn't bought it I
37:05
said no I didn't say that I said what I said was I wouldn't wish it upon
37:11
you because you have to be a certain sort of crazy to buy a football club and unless you inherently are then you
37:18
shouldn't do it unless you can do it so you get you get somebody like David CLA
37:23
who's at Darby if you ask him which I have done why did you buy by Derby County because it was going under and
37:30
somebody had to do it and there was nobody else so I did it and that's amazing because he's done it for the
37:36
city but he's part of that and that's why I did it because somebody had to but if somebody goes and buys it for a
37:44
different reason then it's a whole different ball game and if you go in there naively I always say in football
37:51
you can't be a golfish and a SE a sharks and don't mistake them they're sharks you know it's it's a really
37:58
tough industry it's wonderful and I'm I'm downplaying it a lot because the highs are really high but the lows are
38:04
so low and you ask you back to synectics everything that happens happens in private nobody knows I mean we've been
38:11
through some terrible times with synectics you know in um 12 years ago we
38:18
nearly got taken under by grg um that whole scandal with the raw Bank of Scotland and they came after us and very
38:25
nearly took us down and it was horrendous absolutely horrendous s but nobody knew but so then we contain that
38:33
so in another way that's that was just as tough because you have to contain it all yourself in football it takes two
38:40
hours and it's all over Reddit somebody asked me about running a
38:45
football club and I said the trouble is the interesting stuff I can't tell you and the day today say boring his dishw
38:52
waterer you know um but speaking of dayto day I mean where do you spend most of your time are
38:57
you really still involved in synectics or or do you spend most of your time at the club I mean what's no in in April of
39:03
this year we sold synectics uh to PE okay and um my
39:08
daughter and I are non exx it's been quite a transition for me because by Nature as you can tell I'm not a natural
39:15
non-exec I'm not a natural sit back and look and say oh that's interesting slaves up come on let's go get on so not
39:22
being an exec is is a big transition for me and also with changed synectics from
39:28
being the family company to being the family investment and that's been a big change when the children have got four
39:36
children and oh I mean they're all growing up now they're not really children but but as they were growing up
39:42
they always viewed synectics as the fifth sibling because they always the
39:47
fourth sibling because four of them the fourth sibling because they always said that you know they had to fight it for
39:53
their parents' attention and it always had a seat at the the dinner table cuz it was always being talked about so to
39:58
them it was the the next sibling then Port Vil comes along and they said yeah
40:04
that was the trouble teenager that the new exciting one com that get gets
40:10
adopted and you know Rob Rob Rob's mother's Tak the spotlight gets the
40:15
biggest piece of chicken at the dining table yeah that's the one and so to make that decision to sell
40:22
synectics was was big but it was the right decision so I now go to the the
40:27
board meetings any help I can give I I will but I I spend my time would would just
40:34
moving into the countryside and buying a a farm um and so we're we're going to go
40:40
and yeah we're going to buy this Farm it's not a working farm at the moment and so another
40:46
risk another RIS three three St do you Farms football clubs and it companies
40:53
it's quite within a day of saying we're gonna buy this this Farm um my daughter sends me this whole
41:00
business plan of making it into a non-for-profit working farm um and then
41:06
getting mini buses and bringing kids from the city that's never seen you know animals and what have you and this is
41:13
what a day would look like and this is how we could do school trips and yeah you think oh my goodness you know when you just said yes we're going to buy
41:19
this thing I just I just wanted space in fresh air yeah I just I just want to walk my dogs on my own land that's all
41:25
that's all I really want then for for the football club and what I really worked on last year was it's back to you
41:34
know the the good to Great book where you talk about getting the right people on the bus but you also talk about
41:40
getting the very very best people that you can and if if you're going to Splash
41:46
out Splash out on getting your leaders right and you know so I ended up getting
41:51
Darren Moore who is a far better manager than I could have reasonably expected
41:58
you know for a for a league one going into a League 2 Club he's a championship manager from West Brom well from
42:04
Birmingham so he's he's from about a mile and a bit uh one way from the
42:09
albian ground and I was a mile and a half the other way from the albian ground and when I'm having the call with him because I spoke to our director of
42:16
football the time I said I want Daren Moore and he said we can't have Daren Moore with Port P Dar Mo and I said well
42:23
we can't go we don't speak to him so go get him on the phone you know so we had this two or three hour Zoom call and I
42:29
was saying to him about being a kid and I said I used to go and watch the album and then if they played away I catch a
42:35
79 bus and I go and watch the wolves or I catch a 74 bus I go and watch the the villa and he said to me after he joined
42:42
he said it was telling somebody else I was listening to him and he said and Carol was talking about catching the 79
42:47
bus and I thought I used to catch the 79 bus and go and watch the Wolves I said if I'd have known the 79 bus could have
42:53
done the deal I'd have said that at the beginning I could have saved us three hours but he has the same values he has
42:58
the same background as I have in in that in that sort of respect and so I've got him I've got um chat called Matt Hancock
43:06
and we used to always have to say Matt hanock not that one um the politician
43:12
and so he came to me he' done 11 years running the um Foundation at Burton albian and then he's come to me and he's
43:19
now my CEO and he's amazing so I've got an incredibly good manager an incredibly
43:25
good CEO and I let them do their job what is your favorite team now my
43:30
favorite team outside of Porto what like if you watch the Premier League maybe okay the Premier League for instance what would you say is your favorite
43:36
football team in the Premier League well I was on the train today and my son was saying that Aston Villa is the one to
43:42
really watch at the moment Asa they they just they had a big big victory yesterday big one last night didn't they
43:49
um so I like I like teams like Plymouth
43:55
where you've got owner it's quite interesting because when you get to know from the inside you get to know the
44:01
owners and what they they're looking to do and how they're looking to do it and I like Simon who owns Plymouth and he's
44:08
been very much about building and growing um a football club um with the
44:14
community at the heart I like brenford for the same sort of reasons and so there's lots of clubs that I like now um
44:22
but I could only have Port Bale you cannot put anything on the Airways and I say other than Port I and since you
44:29
didn't have a college degree or anything you know you you kind of charged into the corporate world head first at 17 and
44:36
do you still like do you think a college degree is still necessary in today's climate I've got I've four children as I
44:43
said I've got two that have gone to University one has got a masters in
44:49
physics and a master's in business finance and the other one's got a degree in theological studies I've got two who
44:57
just didn't want to know just did not want to go for the um that next part of education and I was fine you know you do
45:04
either what that gives you is a shorthand it says that I can go to somewhere for three years and stay more
45:11
or less on the straight and narrow and I can focus on a on a subject and I can pass exams if you're not that sort of
45:18
person and I never was until my kids really aren't you can still be successful because you very often will
45:23
have have compensating characteristics so I can't do that ask me to do a a talk
45:30
with a script forget it you know I just can't do it at all but ask me to speak
45:37
on a subject that I know about or I feel passionately about I can do it and I can
45:42
I can do that to without too much too much concern and so it's looking at what
45:50
you can do and and how you can do it and then just having real confidence and Faith In Yourself um and I think that
45:57
for me and trust in yourself you know you go back to risk you know and as I said you get all the information around
46:02
you and then you just go for what feels right and I've now got this thing with Port Vil that I've got this real clear
46:08
sense of Destiny where I look you know I go into Vil and it kind of makes my life
46:14
make sense why did I go and do that as a as a 10-year-old and go and watch the album
46:20
why did I go and do get the experiences that I did go and be a woman in a man's world all these things have contributed
46:28
to being as part of my journey for me to be where I am but then it's having faith in that Destiny we're not always given
46:35
to know why we're where we are but weing success and what was it like like
46:40
leaving school at a young age with you know with no degree or anything to back you up like what was that
46:46
like risky yeah yeah yeah but I don't know I I was always a fighter as I still
46:53
am a fighter but I'm a I'm not I'm not the fighter that I was um I remember
47:01
going to see um the very first time I went to see somebody um to get some counseling and after the first session
47:08
she said to me oh yeah I can help you Carol um first thing we'll doing some assertiveness classes and I said got me
47:14
wrong I think you'll find I'm one of the most assertive people you'll meet and she said no Carri you're one of the most aggressive you're not assertive at all
47:21
and you know it was like a b water going over me I just never never considered myself as being aggressive I just felt
47:27
myself as doing what I needed to do to get where I needed to go and and that's that was what that put that sense of
47:34
purpose in there and I can do it whereas sort of starting to be a lot more self-aware actually I don't need to do
47:41
that I don't need to be quite so uh bushy I assertively aggressive yeah I
47:47
think that's a better way to put it as a woman in business yeah it's fine when need to do yeah it is because that's the
47:53
other thing being a woman in business is is how do you come across I'm really big in the masculine and feminine energy in
47:59
in things where I think men suppress their feminine energy and what I've tried to do in the football club is
48:05
allow for it to come out and it'd be okay I mean I don't mean on the on the pitch you go and do what you got to go
48:10
do on the pitch but off the pitch they're people they're people and the football industry does not treat people
48:17
as people and that really drives me mad yeah we're very Brut on how we judge players and and the team and the manager
48:24
and the owners United is facing facing a very rough time right now it is and it's
48:30
based on so little information I always say it's like looking through a a a
48:36
window of a house and judging the whole house you can't do it because you know
48:43
people judged me last year they judged how I ran the club they judged what was
48:48
going on with the club they didn't know an awful lot of what was happening and
48:53
they couldn't know and yet they will they will make an assumption and then act as if it's a fact what's like
49:00
celebrity press as well you know when when you see like a story of some celebrity in in the headlines it's you
49:06
don't really know what happened or how they got there what happened that night before that day of and stuff like that so yeah yeah even just like you know how
49:14
a football player or a celebrity would be walking down you want to phot it with that person and the celebrity or you know the player doesn't want to take a
49:19
picture at the moment you don't know if he's or she's going through problems at home they had a bad day and now they're just mean you don't like them yeah now
49:26
they're awful and you go online and you say terrible things about them just from that one little interaction without even
49:32
knowing what's going on in their day well our biggest celebrity fan is Robbie Williams and who I've got to know really
49:39
quite well because he messages me after virtually every match um or I'll message him with a little bit of what's going on
49:46
but um earlier this year he he rang me and said that um a journalist from a
49:53
paper had got in touch with him to say that they'd heard that he was buying Port Bale and he said no I'm not I'm
50:02
absolutely not not don't like Port Bell I love Port Bell but I am not buying it it's not for sale I'm not buying it and
50:09
he said and I've just had a text from them that they're still running the story and he he sent me a copy of the
50:14
text conversation with these journalists and they still run the story even though he had said
50:21
categorically that he would it was not a fact did they ask you
50:27
we're not no no no no I'm I'm not sgg I'm not suggesting you are this this was the good thing we don't read about
50:33
sports sports team no this but this was the you know this is about celebrity so
50:40
this was I've got a celebrity story and if I don't run it somebody else will right so I'm assuming they asked them to
50:46
and not you or did they reach out to you as well saying yes but it wasn't the same people
50:52
it wasn't the same people who reached out I wasn't the story yeah that's what I mean so they probably just oh no I'm I'm not the story at all he he
50:59
was the story but then you know when we were buying this house you know I went to look around the house and this chat
51:04
was saying oh Robbie Williams used to come to this house and he used to do this and he used to didn't say that we knew him so I I messaged him later on I
51:12
so I've been to this house you used to go he used to do this he used to do that comes back says car's more fake news I've never been there
51:19
you never seen that place in life there and then he used that chair while he drank that coffee out of that mug said
51:26
in the school you went to must have been enormous cuz everybody in Stoke on Trent went to school with you
51:33
everybody everyone knows Robbie Willam every single and you talked about you know the charity um and I know
51:39
you're running like the Hub Foundation how is that like you know what led you to be so charitable I started the Hub
51:46
Foundation because we weren't going to buy the football club um so we thought well we need to do something we want to
51:51
do something for the area so we decided to do that so that's the food and activities during the school holidays
51:58
and then we got involved with the holiday activities and food program um which now runs out throughout the whole
52:04
of the country to to help kids when I was 40 I went to a school reunion um for
52:11
for the school in Lincolnshire and all of us went we were all 40 and I went in and I saw the maths teacher Mr Windsor
52:19
and he he said what are you doing and I told him about synectics and yeah I'd gone in Kevin's car because it was better than mine you know and I wanted
52:25
to show that I was doing okay and um he said what he I told him he said I always knew you'd do well I said you didn't you
52:33
described me to The Gutter and he said he said no you were walking a
52:38
path and you you were going to fall one way or the other whichever way you fell was going to be spectacular but there
52:45
was something about you that I thought no she will fall the right way and then
52:50
that really got to me and I came back and I thought how many kids are walking
52:56
that path that I walked and how many have the opportunity to fall the way
53:01
that I fell and how do I make that opportunity they don't have to take you can't force
53:06
them to do it if they want to do it they're going to do it if they don't they won't but so many of them don't even
53:12
have the opportunity to do it and that's what really started to drive me into how do we help kids to be where I
53:21
was you know because you know I look back and people who know me now wouldn't believe the me of
53:28
16177 be the same person and people who knew me at 17 would never believe other than the mass teacher who had this great
53:34
faith in me um would never believe that I would end up how I've ended up and every now and again it sort of
53:40
overwhelms you a bit and you think okay how do what do we do what do we do to give kids that opportunity when there's
53:46
such a wealth of of knowledge and resource in the world and just not everybody gets that fair access to it so
53:52
I think I get you know if if you go through that experience to have to to give back um I think that's brilliant
53:59
yeah and I think it's it's the belief sometimes we had a an awards dinner last
54:06
week for our foundation and one of and I hate Awards dinners if I'm perfectly honest in
54:12
community things I really hate them because run charity yeah how do you judge one against another I and I always
54:20
feel that you know for the poor two who were shortlisted and they came with such hope and they don't win it I want to do another dinner for the for the didn't do
54:27
it you didn't get it um but you know there was there was one and he really
54:32
was going through hard times and very little belief in fact there's two there
54:37
very very little belief in themselves and then they come and you start to see them as a person and then you start to
54:44
show them that you see them as a person and then they start to see themselves as a person and then that starts to grow
54:51
and we had one and you know he started to do a day a week volunteering for and
54:56
then it went to two days and now we employ him and you know and you think wow you know that lad and his dad was
55:05
saying to me you know we just never believed we never believed that he could get to where he's got well you've got to
55:11
believe we've all got to believe um and sometimes we have to pass that belief on
55:18
and you know and it's a fake it till you make it sometimes isn't it you know but you know that's what we're doing now it
55:24
to we're all doing it's what we're all doing really cuz we're always we're all faking it to the next level aren't we
55:30
whatever we're doing we're always that is belief isn't it faking it yes Lally
55:36
made up it'll be all right yeah it'll be all right there's a certain percentage of disbelief in belief in believing in
55:42
yourself or delusional being delusion being delusional is a big get a word
55:48
bubble right here for all those words yeah yeah absolutely for that I guess my
55:53
final question was kind of be just what would be your advice to you know entrepreneurs you know Founders like
55:59
yourself 18 21 30 50 who want to start their own company what do you be like
56:05
what would be your advice to them fake it till you make it or yeah be assertively aggressive
56:11
or understand the difference between being right and
56:17
winning because I see so many people who get so stuck on being right they've got
56:24
to be right and sometimes you've just got to be okay that might you know it
56:32
might be particular if you're in business so you've got a client um or you've got or you whoever you've got and
56:39
your client is saying that that they want something or or they're saying
56:45
something was wrong and you know it wasn't and then you got to look at that and you can say right I can either go
56:50
and fight them and I can either go and tell them that they are wrong but I'm going to lose the client so how am I
56:57
going to win what is winning in this case well winning in this case is I let them win this one and then I keep a
57:02
happy client and then I grow the client um and so sometimes you have to
57:08
do that you have to say you know we had a client who gave notice to
57:13
us in ceptics it was a big client and they went off to do something else and I always say if a client gives notice to
57:20
you you treat them as if they're still your client in 5 years time you do not change and even even though you want to
57:26
say you're wrong you're wrong you shouldn't give us notice you should do this you should do that so just treat them as if they are and give them the
57:35
space that if they want to they can come back and that client came back and after so long they came back they rang me in
57:40
and said we've made a terrible mistake and part of me felt like saying yeah I knew that and I told you then told you
57:47
so well okay yeah okay well yeah of course we've got space if you want to come back um and so that they've come
57:53
back they're a bigger client than they were so could have gone on and said you know got it wrong but we would have won
57:59
so being right and winning and also biting your tongue in that scenario I guess yeah and yeah and and that's why
58:06
good family comes comes in or good colleagues because you've got to have that outlet you've got to be able to go in that room and
58:12
go you've got to let it out but just don't let it out to them it out the
58:18
screen boxes that like like some companies have you just go in there you scream it out you just scream and sometimes I'll go into work and I'll
58:24
just say to to Darren or to M or to Patrick and son I'll just say could you just go in there and I just go
58:31
there and I go thank you very much and then I they haven't said a thing I just need them there you know and and I need
58:37
to be able to say it because it don't leave it in let it out just make sure who you let in it out to so putting your
58:43
aggression in like a box and then just like leaving it there yeah the assertively aggression in yeah yeah and
58:51
and it's also kind of this about to being right and winning it's known which fights to you which fights do you go and
58:57
fight you because there's a few Hills you don't want to go and die on just let it go let it go and we have our headline
59:04
knowing which fights to fight yep definitely I don't know I feel like there's a lot in this in this in this
59:09
last 45 minutes um but yeah we are out of time but we really do appreciate you coming and pleasure had a brilliant time
59:16
talking about I mean I'm not really a big football fan but M and I have had our chats a few times so I'm getting
59:21
there um soly B surely but it's come up a few times yeah thank you so much for joining us it's been a pleasure really
59:27
enjoyed it [Music]
#Business Formation
#Soccer
#Social Issues & Advocacy